Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Ishana on August 11, 2004, 07:56:07 PM
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Greetings everyone!
I am wondering if we could have a conversation about relationships between brothers and sisters who have grown up together in dysfunctional, narcissistic households? My questions would be: What are your experiences related to this subject? How were your relationships with your siblings when you were young? How about now that you're adults? What have you found to be helpful in improving your relationships with your brothers and sisters?
I look forward to your responses.
Ishana
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Hi Ishana!
My only living sibling is a flaming N and it is hopeless to do anything about it.
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Thanks so much for your insight and support.
It aided my healing. Too much of my heart
was in this post to let it remain here for posterity on the web.
The post served its purpose and now it is time to
edit it or gently take it down.
To every thing there is a season, and a time
to every purpose under the heaven: Ecclesiates 3:1
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Hi Ishana,
I grew up in a home with an Nmom. My dad had to travel a lot for his job which left my brother and I do cling to each other for support and protection against her evil doings. We were extremely close growing up. We always stood up for each other and supported each other. Neither one of us has had contact with our mother for years. Today we are really good friends who count on each other for whatever we need. He is a blessing to me, a brother and a friend. We are lucky because we have the same understanding about what really went on in our home. We ended the cycle. I'm not sure if this helps you or not. What is the situation with your siblings?
Madame Butterfly
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Nice topic!
There were four of us, three older girls and the younger son. The girls knew, especially the two older ones, that we were created by accident, for my parents wanted sons to pass on teh family name. I could go on a bit about that, but it would not be positive in nature. I am the oldest.
We all have our survival methods of self actualization. My next younger sister and I have had extensive counseling over the years. She started in her early 20s, and I started in my late 40s. I am not needing it now except only occasionally as a "booster" but she is in it still on a weekly basis. She has a tendency to be bossy; it is a way she relates to love in some respect. I read about it in something Dr. GRossman wrote. (I also read about me, for in my younger years I was completely submissive, the quiet one who moved in and out with out notice. ) This sister has not been able to maintain a relationship due to the bossy behavior. She lives near mother and daddy and is angry because she ends up taking care of mother and did daddy before he died. She cannot tolerate though someone else doing it.
My youngest sister could sing beautifully as a child, thus got loads of love and attention when she, with her curly hair bobbing, performed in front of anyone who came to see us. It was phenominal to watch the attention, love, and admiration from parents and wonder why I did not get any. When the son got older, the attention for her abruptly stopped. She has not figured it out yet I am sorry to say. So, now, she has substituted a Heavenly Father for our earthly parent's attention. She sings and preaches fundamentalist Christianity to whomever will listen. I have seen her literally take the headphones off of a stranger in a waiting room at the hospital and sing to him...he ws horrified. I had to leave the room laughing.
The son walks on water as far as decesased father and living mother are concerned. He was a multi millionaire at age 6 and my first child was a welfare baby. You get the idea. Money was love and power in my birth family.
We siblings do love each other, but as far as respecting our individual methods of survival in this earth, well, not all understand each other's methods. Taht makes it challenging. The son has trouble with one sister who bosses him a bit, but they are more alike though than the rest of us. I will not tolerate the younger sister's version of Christianity thrust at me so I stay clear. She is bitchy one minute and prays for your soul the next. Lots of internal anger. The bossy sister is truly trying to understand but so far has not, but she is getting there. THe son I feel has very N tendencies and is living through his own son for he talks of him incessently and not a lot about his daughter unless she is some sort of top achiever in some area. All think I am a bit odd, for I am going my own way at this point in life for it is all that will work for me. I am the only one that has her own lawyer, own faith, own accountant system, and own values. When I made some changes, the others had much trouble understanding what I was doing and becamed threatened or something by the changes. Mother really did. It was a problem for me, until I finally got strong enough in owning my true self so as not to let it affect me. I still have to work at this sometimes.
Mother asked me the other day, " How come your children turned out better than mine did?" She was being very serious. I was voiceless momentarily, then said, "I simply listened to them."
Enough said.
Freetobeme
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I have a lot of siblings. In my family, my mother is supposed to be the conduit. We aren't supposed to talk to each other, but only through her. This is an unspoken rule, not stated outright. So we don't talk to each other that much because if my mom finds out, she sulks and makes us feel guilty. So we're still under her control in some ways. We get along except for one rageaholic sibling who is quite difficult.
bunny
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Hello,
I wish I had the opportunity to band together with my siblings while growing up and to feel closer. Ironically, we were told and we acted as though we were all "close" in our post school years. My mother was the main cheerleader of Ndad who was gone a lot. When he was around, his unspoken attitude was that we were major inconveniences. As a result, my oldest brother and I became invisible. My Nbro was the golden boy and copied my father a lot.
My Ndad is a verbal bully. He didn't call us names or swear, just got really loud, disgusted, and would insinuate that there was something wrong with us if we spoke our minds. "What made you say that? How can you think that?" Nbro was a major tattler and mother's favorite (because he was most like Ndad). My other brother never talked about anything and today is a very angry bottled up guy who is not very insightful about anybody's feelings, let alone his own. Nbro would take on Ndad and that's when the fireworks flew. My father HAD to win any argument and would follow my brother from room to room (like the Great Santini & basketball) to continue to make his "points".
My voiceless bro operates from a small fortress built inside of himself, even within his own household of wife and two kids. Like his wife, he is very passive aggressive. I felt closest to him growing up, but today I wonder if that "closeness" was really only identification with his loner/outsider status. We didn't talk about anything intimate if we talked at all. He and I were sort of numbed out. He watched TV and I read. He married a BPD woman and we siblings do not see him anymore because he is a major enabler of her machinations.
My Nbro is coming to the conclusion that he was abused by my father. But he says it like he was the only one! :roll: He isn't very interested in my experiences except to have me say "I know" and validate what happened to him. I also used to have to watch what I said because he would use it against me. Now I don't care if he does or not because I see it for what it is and can speak my truth to my parents a bit more now. I can defend myself by pointing out the consequences of how their words and actions affect me (they don't stop to think about that...but when I point it out to them it has some effect), at least with my mother.
Anonymous
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Hello Ishana.
What are your experiences related to this subject? How were your relationships with your siblings when you were young?
I am an only child. Nmother and Nfather divorced. I guess the closest thing I had to siblings were my two cousins but my mother and aunt have always disliked each other since I can remember. I was physically abused by my aunt when I was under the age of 10 (in private) and she will never admit to the abuse. Once, she abused me in public, and it is an "unspoken rule" that no one is allowed to bring it up. I confronted her about this last year and she justified it. She said I was a *little bitch* - guess that means I deserved it. What a load of crap. :x But the effect lingers...I still question myself...AM I REALLY a little bitch who deserves to be hit and slapped around? Uninstall...uninstall...
Bunny wrote:
In my family, my mother is supposed to be the conduit. We aren't supposed to talk to each other, but only through her. This is an unspoken rule, not stated outright. So we don't talk to each other that much because if my mom finds out, she sulks and makes us feel guilty. So we're still under her control in some ways.
This is similar to what my grandmother did with my mother and aunt. My first therapist told me that her mentality was likely "divide and conquer." My grandmother was brought up in an orphanage as a child. Her insecurities were likely expressed by keeping the two daughters separated somehow even though on the outside the family appeared *perfect.* Nonetheless, the hostility between my mother and aunt still exists and was, for awhile, in danger of being passed down to the kids - us cousins. I have a pretty good relationship with one of my cousins. She allows me to use her address for insurance purposes, etc.
My grandmother is in denial about everything. It is maddening to be with her. Very passive-aggressive. The last time I saw her was when my mother and I were planning to take a drive to a city about 4 hours away and stay for two night before I caught a flight. Our relationship was pretty good then (relatively speaking) but grandmother sulked...yes, that is the perfect word. She felt like she didn't want to *impose* on the other daughter by asking her for care. I invited grandmother to come with us but that did not turn the trick. It seems she wants to keep everyone divided and will to her dying day. Several weeks ago, I got a letter from her telling me that *you are loved just as if you were one of my own children and grandchildren." WTF???
Thanks for the questions, Ishana.
p.s. as a teenager and young adult, I was enmeshed in this hatred between the two sisters. I, naturally, wanted to protect my mother and also wanted to shout out the abuse I had received at the hands of my aunt but no one would listen. the more I got embroiled with protecting my mother, the worse it got for me - I became the identified patient and my mother could pass off her rage onto me (ie, get me to do her raging for her) so she could come out of it smelling like a rose. In the last several years, I have used the rather effective imagery of seeing the three of them (grandmother/mother/aunt) as a 3-headed monster.
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Thank you all for your responses. It seems that we all have very different experiences and responses to our Narcissistic childhoods even if we are raised in the very same household. I admire each of you for seeking your own voice and truth. I also perceived a great deal of love and understanding for our siblings, even if we still experience difficulties or are not as close to them as we would like.
I asked the question because I am experiencing difficulties in my relationship with my younger sister. My sister has special needs, which makes things even more complicated. Sometimes I get tired just trying to figure out the dynamics of what is going on, let along try to find a healthy or workable response.
Lately I've been wanting to pull away from her but she is very needy, especially emotionally. The problem is that when I try to be available or there for her she just pushes me away. Then, when I stay away she becomes enraged that I'm not giving her enough attention.
I understand that a big part of growing up in a Narcisstic/Enabler household is the lack of attention. I experience this loss myself. I am trying to figure out how to have healthy interactions and provide my sister with support without enabling dysfunctional behavior or taxing myself so much that it affects my well-being or happiness.
I have only had contact with my younger brother 3 or 4 times since I became an adult and left home. I am sad about this because I feel I do not know him. I understand that the reason he is so distant is to protect himself, but I still feel sad for myself and my son, who is his only nephew. My brother is my son's only Uncle. My brother only saw my son once, when my son was 3 years old. My son is 20 now. This is a deep loss for me and my son.
I realize this is all because of how dysfunctional our home was and the deep level of pain the three of us (my sister, brother and myself) carry. It makes me mad that I STILL have to deal with all of this after all these years. :evil:
Ishana
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Ishana wrote:
I asked the question because I am experiencing difficulties in my relationship with my younger sister. My sister has special needs, which makes things even more complicated. Sometimes I get tired just trying to figure out the dynamics of what is going on, let along try to find a healthy or workable response.
Has a trustworthy diagnosis been made regarding your sister? Nowadays, there seems to be alot of information on special needs once a diagnosis has been made. Then, you'll have the option of joining a support group and/or investigate strategies and maybe you won't feel so tired or see the situation as so complicated if you can share with others.
My brother only saw my son once, when my son was 3 years old. My son is 20 now. This is a deep loss for me and my son.
I can relate to this loss so well...its so sad. I had - until recently - an overwhelming sense of loss and pain I was not in touch with. No one in my family - esp my parents - has ever acknowledged my loss. What gives me heart and hope about your story is that you ackowledge a loss *too*. This makes it alot easier for your son - to have a mother who is not in denial. I'm glad you care about him so much.
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Hi Ishana,
Your post about your brother/son's uncle reminded me of another thing. My parents did not stay in touch with their siblings really. My father would call his brother once in a great while. They weren't close but they weren't enemies either. They were both rather detached from everyone.
I've only seen my mother's sisters about twice (each). I never saw her brother and he lived closest to us. It turns out he was a raging alcoholic. My aunts were pretty flipped out, too.
It's no wonder that if any of us wanted to move away for career reasons, they were very angry and hurt. Because they had done that very thing and they felt rejected Big Time. They interpreted a move as a rejection of them, not growth of us, and as a failure of their parenting. Ugh. So we were strongly discouraged from "hurting" them the way they hurt and ran away from their homes. Happy families stick together... :roll:
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Lately I've been wanting to pull away from her but she is very needy, especially emotionally. The problem is that when I try to be available or there for her she just pushes me away. Then, when I stay away she becomes enraged that I'm not giving her enough attention.
I don't know what her special needs are, but people with emotional problems will "test" others to see if they have any boundaries. They will push beyond acceptable limits to try to keep getting gratification. Of course, they can't get it as it's humanly impossible. Then they become enraged. It's a vicious cycle of their bad behavior (testing) pushing others away, followed by rage at being abandoned.
The only way to deal with this (and it's hard) is to draw firm limits and stick to them like glue. She'll detect any lessening of boundaries as a total cave-in by you, and she'll demand even more. When you set limits with her, she will be deeply enraged. Don't let this deter you. Keep it up and she will soon realize that you have boundaries. You have to keep enforcing them, though.
I have only had contact with my younger brother 3 or 4 times since I became an adult and left home. I am sad about this because I feel I do not know him. I understand that the reason he is so distant is to protect himself, but I still feel sad for myself and my son, who is his only nephew. My brother is my son's only Uncle. My brother only saw my son once, when my son was 3 years old. My son is 20 now. This is a deep loss for me and my son.
Can you or your son contact him now and start a connection?
bunny
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Thank you everyone for your feedback. Wow, that feels GREAT! :D
Dawning...my sister refuses diagnosis or treatment. She is pretty functional in some ways...not in others. She does have a recent (within the past year) diagnosis on the brain trauma but they aren't doing anything to help her that I am aware of. My plan is to visit her doctor in the Fall.
I agree about the boundaries for my sister Bunny and Guest. I am doing that but it is hard because it upsets her so much...
I have tried many times...even quite recently...to establish contact with my brother. Mostly he doesn't even respond. Once in a while I catch him at home and we chat a bit...but mostly, no. I've been down in his area a few times and he avoids a meeting.
I am available and have made it clear that 1) I am not judgemental (he has a different lifestyle than mine), 2) I am relaxed and am willing to build a relationship slowly in ways that feel good to both of us, and 3) he is important to me and I love him.
He may be racist (my husband and I are different races) because he has said things about that before. Also, in the past he has had way more money than I so maybe that's an issue. (Status and materialism are strong values to many people in my family.) I really don't know what is blocking him from responding to my requests for relationship but I hope someday he will be able to trust me a little bit.
I've only seen him twice since he was 13 years old, which was about 24 years ago. We were badly abused so maybe I represent very bad memories.
He will always have a special place in my heart and I hope he knows that because I have told him several times orally and in writing.
I can't think of anything else to do to remedy the situation.
Anyone with some ideas let me know!
Ishana
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I have a half brother. He is 9 yrs younger than me. Up until he was born, I was merely physically abused when punished, yelled at and ignored. But once my brother was born he was placed in a superiority position over me as "mom's favorite". The difference between me and my brother was glaring; she had more respect and even some love for my brother's father, and she disdained the mistake she made when she had me with my father (whom she loathes and disrespects). While growing up, I always felt that my mother deamed me as competition of some sort. She would date boys not more than 3-4 yrs older than me, then hide them away in her bedroom. She would go out of her way to intergrate my brother into whatever man de jour she had going on, but never me.
My brother grew up with every advantage in life. He was given golf memberships every year since he was 7 yrs old. At any given time the child had three or more personal computers. He had all the toys, went to all the summer sports camps, had all the expensive clothes, was even given two cars, one of which is brand new, all before the age 18. All this while I, as a young teen, struggled on disability and welfare with the illness I acquired while enduring the physical abuse. I left home at age 16 - it was either I kill myself, or I kill her. I left and started anew... and she hated me for it.
My brother is incredibly, and self admittedly (as my mother is also) narcissitic... yet has the classic fragile narcissistic ego that he hides behind his false self. My mother doesn't like my sibling and I to communicate or interact without her present so, coupled with his lack of respect for me learned from our maternal structure, my brother and I don't have a relationship, yet we are very accessable to eachother. I fear this is how things will be always.
And one more thing, and I'd like to get feedback on this as I have thought about it at great length, and discussed this with other interested family members... so here goes.
What drives a Narcissistic single mother to feel the need to sleep in the same bed as her adult son? And what causes an adult son (now 18 yrs old) to continue to sleep with his mother? Even when other sleeping arrangements are possible?
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Jenocidal,
What drives a Narcissistic single mother to feel the need to sleep in the same bed as her adult son? And what causes an adult son (now 18 yrs old) to continue to sleep with his mother? Even when other sleeping arrangements are possible?
Imo, its very unhealthy enmeshment between the two. She sees him as a part of herself and she has...to quote Sam..."malignant self-love" which expresses itself in this behaviour. The son is only 18 - still quite young and she is likely taking advantage of him and his vulnerability being around her.
My mother tried to get me to kiss her on the mouth for years. I started doubting my mother as a teenager when she wanted me to come into her room and sleep with her. Sometimes, she would keep me - as a 16 year old - embroiled in some conversation about her (cloaked as her concern about me and my naughty adolescent ways) in her bedroom for hours. I am always on guard around her and am very nervous even about changing clothes when she is around. And, in the past, when we've travelled together, I've had to make sure that the hotel accomodation is for twin beds.
I hope your half-brother can come to an understanding as soon as possible about how detrimental this is for his future growth. Backpacking around Europe for a few months might be the ticket. :)
Good for you for getting away from your mother's house.
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My mother (we call her the warden) used to try to force me to sleep "with the family" in one bed all my life. But I always pushed for my own space and I think that made my mother deam me as "out of the family unit" , and thusly evil.
My 18 yr old brother is very much a man. He's had a steady, serious relationship since he was 15 yrs old, maintains a part time job now that school is done and still continued(s) to sleep with mom.
Should I intervene? And how would an adult sister (I'm 27 yrs old) help enlighten her little brother to their mother's pathology?
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Hi Ishana,
It sounds like you have made a sincere attempt to forge a relationship with your brother. Maybe give it a rest for awhile and try again later if that's what you need to do. If you believe that he is a racist and you are part of a bi-racial couple then let it go. Racism is deep-rooted stuff and usually stays forever. Sad. That's not your fault. Maybe your brother is limited and no amount of kindness and good-intent on your part will get him to come around.
Btw, I just realized what I omitted from my story... I have a half-brother. My father remarried and my half-brother is several years younger than me. A relationship between us was never encouraged by anyone. I only met him once when I was 12 years old. Similar situation to Jenocidal's in some ways. He was the golden boy and I was the result of the first failed marriage. Father's new wife was cold to me and blamed me for everything that went wrong that summer of my 12th year but I was already used to it so it didn't bother me as much as it should have. My fantasy world had already kicked in anyway and was keeping me alive.
I think my half-brother is married now and has a child. When I spoke to my father on the phone in January for the first time in 19 years, I asked how my half-brother is doing. Dad's answer: "that's a good question." In the foreseeable future, I may ask my father for my half-brother's contact info. Half-brother has never reached out to me. Sometimes, I give myself to wondering if he ever thinks about me. I haven't given the attention to this aspect of my dysfunctional family that it obviously deserves.
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Ishana,
It sounds like your brother feels irrationally threatened by you. Possibly he fears you will make some demands on him that he can't fulfill (financially and emotionally). I think he feels guilty, hence the avoidance. Do you two share any interests (sports teams or something)? That may be a way to reach him.
bunny
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Jenocidal,
I think your brother is paying a very heavy price for being the favorite. And I think he knows it's abnormal to sleep with his mother. He still chooses to do so. At 18, he can do whatever he wants and no one can stop him. I wonder what his girlfriend thinks of his sleeping arrangements!
All you can do (imo) is be there for him in case he starts questioning his own choices and wants to talk about it.
bunny
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Bunny,
Yes, a relationship with your half-brother could be very rewarding. Good luck with whatever your choices are with that.
As far as my brother, I have no idea what his interests are and he has no interest in sharing with me on that level. What I have given him, in the past, when he requested it or for special occassions like his birthday, are positive memories that I have from the days before our mother died. Since he was only 2 year old but I was almost 7 years old, I do have memories that I can share to let him know how loved and cared for he was and that I am sure she would not have wanted him to have been abused and mistreated in the ways that he was. He has told me these memories mean a lot to him, even though he doesn't have any recollection of them himself. I think it helped him understand more about the circumstances of his life (he was adopted by my biological mother and father.) I will try to keep in touch with phone calls (phone messages more likely), e-mails and cards and letters. That is what is comfortable for me. If he would like more I would step up to the plate (as I have in the past) to whatever degree he requests and I feel comfortable with. If he never does agree to have a relationship with me I still love him the same and understand that he has a great deal of pain and hurt also. But I can't force someone to be in relationship with me that doesn't want to. :(
Thanks for your replies, Bunny, and good luck on your relationship with your half-brother.
Ishana
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Bunny,
By the way, what does "imo" mean? :)
Ishana
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"imo" = in my opinion
For clarification, my brother isn't a half-brother, but a regular brother.
bunny
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Jenocidal,
I just wanted to say that my brother maintains my stepmother sexually abused him from the time he was very young until he left home at 16 years old. I have no doubt he is telling the truth. He self-identifies as gay. I wonder in what ways -if any - his childhood sexual abuse affects love life. He also was the "favorite." His life has been horrible (not because he's gay, but because of the deep and lasting psychological pain he has endured due to his abuse) and I do not envy your brother in any way. I don't think you will need to intervene...I think, as Bunny said, you should just be there in case he comes to you for support at some point. If an occassion arises you should be clear that you do not support such behavior (your brother and mother sleeping together.)
Another interesting thought I have is that my N stepmother was "taken to her father's bed" from the time she was 12 until she left home in her early 20's. Her father was clearly Narcissistic. She also had a great deal of privilege and always had a great deal of power over her mother, even until her mother died in her old age. She idolizes her father to this day, even beyone his death. By all accounts he probably murdered two of his sons when they were young...under age 2 yrs old from physical abuse. My stepmother was the only girl. She is clearly mentally ill from her horrible childhood and youth.
Is it common for Narcissistic adults to sexually abuse children?
I am glad you are out of the situation also and that you found your way here. Take care, Jen.
Ishana
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Another interesting thought I have is that my N stepmother was "taken to her father's bed" from the time she was 12 until she left home in her early 20's. Her father was clearly Narcissistic. She also had a great deal of privilege and always had a great deal of power over her mother, even until her mother died in her old age. She idolizes her father to this day, even beyone his death. By all accounts he probably murdered two of his sons when they were young...under age 2 yrs old from physical abuse. My stepmother was the only girl. She is clearly mentally ill from her horrible childhood and youth.
Is it common for Narcissistic adults to sexually abuse children?
I am glad you are out of the situation also and that you found your way here. Take care, Jen.
Ishana
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Hello Ishana. Thank-you for your response. I wonder if it would be wrong of me to ask my brother if mother has touched him. Is that my place? My brother treats my mother with no respect. He discards her with ease. He is a Narcissist himself, my own mother has made comments to me that she has recently seen how fragile my brothers ego is, and she thought all along that he had an abundance of healthy self esteem. Which would be hilariously ironic if it weren't so sad to ponder. My brother never helps my mother out when she's in "'need". I always offered to help my mother move, cos she needed help. And I was even ill with my intestinal disease, I'd still help. And my healthy, strong brother wouldn't lift a finger. She fulfilled his every need and want. Even wiped his ass for him until he was 6 yrs old (that's when I ran away to start a real life at age 16, so who knows how long the ass wiping went on for). She was one of those mothers that breast fed her child for too long (I think he was passed the age of 2 and she was still doing it), perhaps this is where her dependancy to my brother began. Just this year, before her and I ended our relationship, she happily told me that recently my brother, while sleeping late at night in the same bed as my mother as usual, rolled over and tried to breast feed. She said it surprised her. Another incident that just popped into my head as I am typing this.... My mother found some porn my little brother (16 yrs old at the time) made of himself with his 16 yr old gf. She thought it was great! She bragged about it to me on the phone. Like it was something a mother should be proud of. I mean, I could tell her I got an A on my sociology paper and it would go in one ear and out the other... my little brother makes some porn of himself and my mother brags with fervor. -scarey thoughts-[/b]
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Ishana Thanks for starting this thread . Hope things get easier between you and your sister.
Moonflower said:
If anyone else here gets the chance to sever relations with a Nparent, I say go for it. Get your sanity back.
Sounds good to me. :)
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Jenocidal,
It is very sad what has happened in your family. Even though your brother received the brunt of the sexual abuse you were abused also. Just having the knowledge of what might have existed between them...there is definitely boundary issues there...is unhealthy for you.
You need to focus on your own healing. That way, if and when your brother reaches out to you, you will be strong and ready to give him the information, support and guidance he will need.
Good luck and keep posting!
Ishana
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Bunny,
Thanks for the IMO definition.
And I apologize. I think I got your post and Dawnings confused in my pea-brain. My deepest apology.
I appreciate your responsiveness, Bunny! I look forward to your posts!
Ishana
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Moonflower,
I appreciate you sharing about your life. I could relate to much of what you said and mostly how your NMom sabotages your sibling relationships.
I remember noticing this right away when my father remarried my N Stepmother. My mother, who had passed away, was not like that AT ALL. As a matter of fact, she did a lot to encourage and support our love and care of each other. I miss her still. :cry:
My stepmother did everything...and still will if we let her...to cause problems and discord between us.
And I really, really relate with the silent treatment. It is her speciality. :evil:
I don't have any contact with my father and stepmother either. I agree, its worth it! :)
Ishana
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Hi Ishana,
I am new to all of this this is the first time that I have responded to anything in this forum. One thing that I want to mention that I don't know if anyone wants to hear is that many people who come from N house holds with one or more N parents will be have many N characteristics themselves. As N's make N's. I included myself in this statement ( much to my own horror),and have recently discussed this with my sister who also has many N traits. My point regarding this I will make later.
The trouble I found in the past is that the damage that my N mother caused for myself and my sister was and still is to a lesser degree, so damaging that it is like going through a war zone. It takes time to undo the damage that a destrauctive parent like that has done. My mother frequently put my sister and I against each other. Amongst many, many, many other abusive and hurtfull things.
I was the first one to pull away, in fact I had to for my own survival, my sister took longer ( it took a complete nervous breakdown for her with Electro Convulsive Therapy) to finally start to be able to break away from Mum. I would find it very hurtfull when she would act out on me and defend our mother for the horrible acts that she was doing to both of us. As she just couldn't deal with reality.
But in time she has healed(sort of). In time I have healed(sort of). And with time and patience and understanding our realtionship has not only healed but she is my best friend I love her truely and deeply. We understand the place that each other has come from where not many others do. I will be 40 this year and my sister 36. She started on her journey to healing when she was 27 I started on mine when I was about 22. So it took some time and for us it is still going on but in a differnt way. Now it covers what kind of parents we are to our children. What could we do better, how can we heal ourselves so that we can remove the last holds of our mother and be better parents.
Getting back to my earlier statement. We have only just started to address the painfull issues of negative N tendancies within our selves and how it shapes and has shaped us. Something to consider that many or not be relevant to you. Is, your sister and you both prob have N patterns of behviour that are learned ( that is not to say at all that either of you are N's). This type of behaviour doesn't leave alot of space for others to express or get over things in their own time as it is very me focused.
So keeping that in mind maybe you can slowly and evenly introduce her to your personal barriers ( in a calm way) and let her know that it is ok that she is hurting, cause you are too. Let her know that you are there for her but you wont put up with verbal abuse ( or whatever). But don't withdraw your love and affection. Keep plodding away try and see how it is for her. Create a space where the two of you can argue but it's ok because you will still be there. Eventually she will be encouraged to trust that she can express her self to you in ways that are positive, rather than N emotional blackmail. One of you needs to take the emotional initiative to be strong.
This is pretty much what I did with my sister. IT WAS NOT EASY. But when I think of where we are now it was all worth it for both of us.
I don't know if this will help at all. But I hope that it does.
We are now going to go to therapy together to sort out these other little issues ( does it ever end ha, ha). At the end it is all about the heart, our hearts and how strong and true they were in connecting with others.
Moon
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Wow, Moon.
That was very insightful and helpful. I am going on a week camping trip with my sister and I will definitely take your advice.
Thanks for sharing. I appreciated the way in which you described your relationships, past and present, with your N Mom and your sister.
I also appreciate the positive tone of your intentional love and support of your relationship with your sister.
Thanks, again. Your sister is lucky to have such a sister as you.
Ishana
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Moonflower,
Your story re-enforces my belief that if you didn't experience this horror, it is unbelievable. I am sitting here with tears clouding my monitor ... how cheated we were -- what a ripoff -- I shall go twirl my hair and suck my thumb for awhile I think.