Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Gaining Strength on April 28, 2008, 08:44:20 AM
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I am in a significant transition. I believe that I am moving out of this shame stuff and into functioning. There are not words to describe how wretched a place I have been living. Shame is about your being not about your actions. When you are shamed you are worthless. In this Nathanson stuff Teartracks told me about, there is a list of all the catagories we can be shamed about. Almost all of them applied to me. If only some apply then you can go to the others and build yourself up and pretend the others don't exist. You become functional or often extraordinary in those areas. But I have rotted in misery and failure in all aspects and it is painful and difficult to climb out.
I want to scream out to people - Don't turn your back on me!
If I could get out of this rejection place then it would be easier. If I could develop a group of friends or a social network then I could stand with someone. But I really need to stop "If-ing" and building up a vision. The vision is what propels us - a vision or a goal. That has to be my next step - a vision.
I have said this and known this for years and yet not done it, not been able to do it for much of the time. As I get relief and come close to breaking this shame perhaps now I have enough "space" to list my vision needs and create them. That is definitely the next step.
I have really been apply this concept that shame and love cannot co-exist. Until I had this I would work on "calming" techniques when the anxiety of shame popped up. But the anxiety was sooo great that it only did so much, even with anti-anxiety meds. But the concept of love gives me enough space (as in the space I can get in meditation) to work around the shame. Now if I develop my vision statements and apply them I will begin to flourish.
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Dear GS
I am in the same shame space. Perfect love(God's love) casts out fear. Shame is fear. It is fear that we are bad, as we were told we were, fear that we will be rejected, abandoned, ridiculed, not good enough)
It is lies.
My Aunt simply says and "means",'I am not perfect". To her, she really IS OK with WHO she is.
It is so different than I.
I used to be there and want to get back.
I love you, GS. Ami
((((((((GS)))))))))
PS For me, when my worst fears come true, like I "feel" shamed, I can see that it won't kill me. This has happened on the board and has actually helped to set me free . Sometimes, experiencing our worst fear and "taking' in the pain of it, makes it heal. It is called "Flooding"
At some point, the power of the feared thing diminishes.
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when my worst fears come true, like I "feel" shamed, I can see that it won't kill me.
I am not there yet. My worst fears have come true fear that we will be rejected, abandoned, ridiculed, not good enough) and it does feel like it has killed me.
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My worst fears have come true fear that we will be rejected, abandoned, ridiculed, not good enough) and it does feel like it has killed me.
I don't know how to move through that kind of pain, GS.... and come out on the other end.... wounded but whole.
::wondering if accepting that you've been abandoned, ridiculed, not good enough for your mother, then giving up hope that she'll ever be able to do better......
would allow you to move through those feelings?::
Leave them behind, finally?
((GS)) You're focused on it..... I'm tihink'in you'll figure it out.
Lighter
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Dear GS
You are at a pivotal ,turning point right now, a fork in the road(IMO)
It is much easier for me to be shamed and deal with it, well,,on the board, than in real life.
The janet thread and the aunt thread were on the board. I was shamed,out the whazoo(lol)
I could not have taken it in real life,I don't think, but I DID grow from it ,here, very much.
Shame is a lie and an imposter. IF we CAN allow it in, open the door and let it sit in the living room, not run away, we will see that it does NOT have the power to destroy us. It looks like it does, so we keep running, BUT it is a ghost in the mirror, powerless ,unless we run and avoid staring it in the face and daring it to "Take your best shot". Then,it retreats, like any coward or bully.
That is my experience and I am still doing it and alive to tell the story(lol) Love Ami
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then giving up hope that she'll ever be able to do better......
I have definitely done that even though I write that I am still tied to her. I know she can't/won't do better. I also know that this healing depends solely on my thoughts/actions and does not depend on what the wounders or anyone else does. In one way that sounds frustrating but in fact it is extremely liberating. I am no longer a child dependent on them but am wholely free to produce my own healing.
You are at a pivotal ,turning point right now, a fork in the road(IMO)
Thanks Ami, I really believe so too.
I am in yet another transition. I suppose I have said that many times here - sounds like the boy crying wolf in reverse. I am truly in need of the support of those here who can offer support. I have never said THAT before. I do truly believe that I am very, very close. I know too that there will be more to come and other times I ask for support but now is definitely a crucial time for me.
I am ANGRY today, very, very angry. Anger has been a VERY dangerous feeling for me until now. It has caused me to lash out inappropriately and suffer horrendous consequences but today my anger is different. It is an anger over what i have suffered and if I channel it correctly, I can use its energy to propel me forward. I am angry at the years of suffering and the lack of help, the lack of support. Dr. Phil and much of our society would say I have made choices but he lacks the knowledge and understanding to know that it is only a choice if you are conscious of it and are unimpeded to act. The shame that has shackled me heretofore has not allowed me to act anymore than a debilitating physical illness would have.
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Dear GS,
James has worked through deep patterns, as you are describing. He told me,last night, that anger is a cover for hurt. We need to feel the hurt(IMO)
I am trying to access the hurt, which is under the anger.
I am where you are, GS, if that is any consolation(LOL)
We have to go IN to the feelings, not run away.
That is what I am trying to do by reading the Alice Miller website.
I wish Papillion were here. He really got it about where we are.
Maybe, James will write about some of this. He has gone through much of this and come out the other side. H e said it was the most painful thing he ever did, but there was freedom ,on the other side. Love Ami
(((((((((GS)))))))
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Dear (((( GS )))) and (((( Ami ))))
What James has shared, is so true, it truly is painful, and personally, it seem that I wept / sobbed my heart out, constantly for a period of well over 18 months duration.
And my tummy was racked with pain, and churning.
Oddly enough, Ami, you mention Papillion, and only yesterday thoughts of Papillion filled my mind, along with other valued members of the board, sadly, all of whom, are no longer here posting; their valued insightful words - breathing life, hope, enlightenment, and encouragement, for the purpose of healing, and renewal.
Much love to you both,
Leah x
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Dear Gaining Strength,
I do sincerely believe that you are at a strong, significant point in your healing journey.
And I would like to express, from my heart, that you have my sincere, utmost respect and admiration, for your diligence and determination.
You are a shining beacon here.
Love to you,
Leah
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(((((((((((((((GS)))))))))))))))
I know I would like you in the real world just from knowing you here. I think you will find that many people like you. Take the plunge!!!!!!! You are ready!!!! Others will feel treasured to find you!!
Love, Beth
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::So relaxed I'm drooling::
Thanks for sharing that , Amber: )
Lighter
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Dittos, Amber...thank you
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OMG PR - how did I miss this fabulous meditative exercise? I love it. I want to add it to my bag of tricks. It will definitely help.
I am developing more and more techniques to transport me from the shaming feelings and thoughts to good life feelings//////'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''(dog typing). There are moments during the day that I feel myself slipping and think I am losing it and something snaps and I know in an instant that I can do it, I have the strength and that I can do it if I believe I can - believing is power - and suddenly I am back where I need to be - maybe stronger.
I'm getting there - step by step - not giving in, not giving up. I'm somewhere hovering over the hump but slightly past the center leaning towards downhill, moving towards the place that gravity takes over and pulls me into new life. So close.
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Yes - believing in power!!
I was listening earlier today to someone talk in depth about the power of believing and how doubt can undermine that power. They were speaking on the profundity of the scene preceding, "I believe, help my unbelief." (Matt 17 if interested) I resolved to move into a place of believing, seeking out doubt to destroy it.
I believe.
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(((((((((((((GS)))))))))))))))))))) Love Ami
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I am believing, for you ((((((( Gaining Strength )))))))
Love, Leah
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Thanks Ami and Leah.
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I am looking forward - I am moving forward - the unprocessed woundings come along with me.
I had thought that the shame work would open the manicles and free me and there would just be sweeping up left to do but alas not the case.
The sweeping up is actually unlocking more and more locks. I have moved forward but I am not yet free.
Today I was moved to work on my closet. That has been a major item at the top of my list for months on end. I could not face it for so long and today was simply moved there.
As I processed the piles I the rage and anger over the experiences of condemnation and rejection just bubbled up into volcanic explosions. I needed to come here and post in hopes of some sort of validation from someone here, some sort of acknowledgement that I am on the right path and that those wounds are real and that someone cares. My heart is open to receive.
Gaining Strength
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Dear GS
You have all that anger and rage b/c you WERE abused and violated by your parents. You had the appropriate reactions to your abuse. I am with you and acknowlege your pain and heartache, GS. Love Ami
((((((((GS))))))))))
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Gaining Strength, I don't really know your story so I went and read what you wrote on the other Board. One thing that struck me that you wrote,
"In one dream I was walking with my mother and someone else down a road. There was no sidewalk but there were cars. The person with us was a man who we were following. My mother was walking very slowly and very wobbly but without her cane. She was on the side closest to the side of the road. There was no shoulder but something of an embankment. She kept pushing me further out into the street and I asked her several times to be cognizant of that and to stay to the edge of the road. When she did it again I switched sides and took the place on the edge of the pavement. Suddenly she became all wobbly and began to fall.
I get the meaning of this. She will push my into harms way and if I take the upper hand and protect myself then she becomes needy in such a way as to force me back into harms way. I won't give in to this anymore."
My therapist helped me to discover (not long ago!) what you found out from your dream:
1) Our parents (unwittingly or intentionally) pass along their flotsam, and we, as kids do not have the resources needed to confront and bring about the necessary change.
2) This flotsam can follow and plague us all through life until we "get it" and we find our voice and build up resources to protect ourselves.
3) We ARE strong and capable and we CAN be the mothers and fathers that failed us - for ourselves. But we need support and genuine, loving people in our lives to help us through it.
GS, you ARE on the right track - you are discovering every day how resourceful, bright, intelligent, kind and loving you are - and what you have to give to others. And that you can move forward from this day on - making sure that the child inside is protected from intentional and unwitting harm.
((((Gaining Strength))))
Dandylife
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Ami and Dandylife thank you, thank you very much. Your words are life giving to me today.
In many ways, this board has become for me the place I can come to to get what I did not get as a child. I need lots of support and encouragement, more than any individual can give - that's what makes this board so valuable to me - it is a collection of individuals and there is enough distance and protection so that people can help without being sucked in or sucked dry. i can come here in need and receive a feel comforted and go on or go out to get more healing.
I was working outside, chipping away at the mess. As I work on my "mess" I feel such oppression of condemnation descend on me. It is this condemnation that has made breaking through so difficult. I am shamed by the condition of my house and yard and I feel condemnation when I work on it, condemned and overwhelmed by the amount of work that needs to be done. So I go out and work and feel the condemnation and call in another voice to hear support and encouragement to push me forward, encouragement for what I am doing rather than condemnation for allowing things to get where they are now. That shame and condemnation for allowing things to get where there are is HUGE, The source of that of course goes deep into the feelings my parents harboured against me my whole life.
Each step that I make forward has got to be enough. I have to overcome those voices that condemn and belittle, those voices that say I don't deserve and I am not worth the effort and that no matter what I do it won't make a difference.
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Gaining Strength,
Yes! You are battling those old scripts which told you those lies (that you are somehow unworthy, contemptuous, wrong, or bad). Keep rejecting them as they are false.
I see that you use metaphor quite quite effectively for healing. That is so wise. (cleaning up the "mess")
Physical labor can be so, so healing when you are working on "stuff"!
Keep on keeping on - I'm with you in spirit!
Dandylife
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Dear GS,
I am so walking beside you.
I'm holding the bags, NOT judging you for piles or mountains of anything.
Things are not people. You are not your messes.
They are just messes. They no longer are symbolic of failure. They are just leftovers.
And we'll deal with them foot by foot.
(Maybe this is why I like Square Foot Gardning so much.)
Have you read the book, It's All Too Much? I think you would find this man very compassionate and very helpful. He approaches mountains of clutter and dirt with people who feel shamed by their failure to maintain an orderly home.
I'm getting it for myself. I'll order it right through Doc G's link.
love (and if you get it we can talk about it, eh?),
more love and it's only a mess, it's just a closet not the stocks, ain't nobody throwing tomatoes...
hugs
Hops
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Thank you. I can't tell you how much it helps to have such support.
Dandylife - Keep rejecting them as they are false. I will do that. When I first learned how to do this I thought the battle was won. I have been surprised that that was actually the beginning of the battle. Now I see that labeling those messages as false and replacing them was the ammunition I needed to fight the battle and I couldn't even enter the fighting until I had this ammunition.
Glad to have the means.
I'm with you in spirit! Thank you.
Hops,
I am so walking beside you.
I'm holding the bags, NOT judging you for piles or mountains of anything.
It is such a help to have you beside me, not judging me. So glad for your support.
I've read Square Foot Gardening but not It's All Too Much, but it sounds like it has my name on it. I'm going to look into this. I feel like the only way out is to overcome the shame - the shame is the barrier. I'm no longer "stuck", I'm slowly moving stuff. I am slowly pushing the shame out the door and along with it some of the "stuff" and clutter.
Thanks so much. - GS
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Dear GS
I wanted to start another thread about thinking I am "bad". It is such a constant theme . I can't seem to overcome the "basic" belief that I am bad.
An N 'upbringing" IS like being in a cult. You get broken down . You lose the basic trust in yourself. You are rewarded when you lose your boundaries and punished when you have them. All in all, you are 'broken"
I try and try to get back the basic foundation that I am simply 'human",not 'twisted "in some abnormal way that I can not trust.
This is my biggest battle, trust in myself and being comfortable with my own power.
My M "struck" at these basic levels.
I have hope, for the first time, that I can really heal with the Alice Miller information . Love Ami
((((((((GS))))))))
PS My house and lawn are nice but I still have shame "out the whazoo"(lol)
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Today I was moved to work on my closet. That has been a major item at the top of my list for months on end. I could not face it for so long and today was simply moved there.
Gaining Strength
Dear GS,
You didn't have to heed the call to be moved there... but you did. You chose to step forward, yet once again. Wow!
To me, that means you're no longer allowing your anger to be directed inward, as you were trained to do for so many years... and that's a wonderful development.
Takes alot of time and practice to stop punishing yourself for someone else's lack. How long and how much practice is not a question we need to answer, I don't think. For me, it's good enough to only trust that the One who loves us above all else will not push or pull us along against our will, but only at just exactly the right pace so that we are not drowned in the high waters.
Anyhow, in my opinion, you are most definitely on the right path and making steady, consistent progress!
With love,
Carolyn
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I made it!!! I got so much done today. Thank you, thank you, thank you!
When I am able to work out of desire rather than ought I am able to accomplish so much.
I worked and got overwrought twice and each time I sat down and found a way to rewrite - once quickly and once it took a couple of hours and then later I was able to work again for an hour or so without ever feeling shame. This last time I started rewriting before the voices of condemnation ever got started. And It Worked!!!
This has been such a period of progress in fits and starts but I see that the more I keep at the rewrite the more it works and the longer it lasts. Looking forward until tomorrow. Can't wait to try it again. And that's a first. I've never looked forward to tomorrow.
Support here has been awesome. thanks guys - you've made all the difference in my life.
Certain Hope - Your post came through just as I was typing.
How long and how much practice is not a question we need to answer, I don't think.
Thanks for this. I feel frustrated at times to post where I actually am because I have felt as though I was further along at times. I always want the results instantaneously but it hasn't worked that way. Once i get a technique to help me get to the next level I want instant help - but I have to practice, practice, practice.
you are most definitely on the right path and making steady, consistent progress! Thanks, that is so encouraging to hear and so encouraging to have a day progress at long last. I so appreciate your post and your encouragement.
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GS - I am so excited for you! It is tremendous the approach you are taking to engaging with your experience. Also, it is a really giddy-making thing the way you turned to focus on that closet. I have areas of life exactly like that closet, but different specifics, and I always feel that they are like a physical symbol of my 'unconscious' they are like 'in denial.' In short, I'm ignoring the area. lol! And so I understand that energy is on the move when you are flowing and growing and turning to look at it and move things out. But the closet is only a physical symbol of things going on inside you. The really exciting stuff is the way you are rewriting and engaging with where you are in the moment, taking it where it is.
I'm with you!
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(oh! I'm so happy for you GS!!)
but your experience is bringing up a "hmmmmm" for me - how about rewriting the "rewrites"?
From an old lapsed artist, it sure sounds like what you're doing isn't so much erasing & correcting - though admittedly, that is one aspect of it - as much as it is "creating".
By heading off the need to "rewrite" - at the proverbial pass - you're are CREATING you... in the present moment. Actively, consciously, finding a way to express - through your physical self - THIS IS WHO I AM.
That's all there is to it - the goal of all this work, I think. Yes, the old emotions/habits still will linger, come up again like pesky moles (wack'em sister!) and they do this unbidden... but by creating your SELF, you'll start soon to see that these things bounce off you, can't pierce the solid YOU... they lose their "power"... because they aren't YOU anymore.
You are now claiming BELIEF in the POWER of POSITIVE!
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(((((((((GS)))))))))) I think you are...... da Bomb !!! :D 8) :)
I hope that today brought you some pleasures and joy and peace.
With love,
Carolyn
P.S. Amber - this is so true and well-put: By heading off the need to "rewrite" - at the proverbial pass - you're are CREATING you... in the present moment. Actively, consciously, finding a way to express - through your physical self - THIS IS WHO I AM.
Exactly. Keeping it all in the present is what heals me as much as anything!
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like a physical symbol of my 'unconscious' they are like 'in denial.'
Amen sister. I am with you on this.
The really exciting stuff is the way you are rewriting and engaging with where you are in the moment,
Thank you Iphi. I'm moving forward and I am thankful for it.
Phoenix Rising - I needed to read your post several times over two days in order to begin to understand it. I still have a way to go. Let me try to put it in my own words. By proactively, "creating" before I even need to "rewrite" that I am actually creating a new me rather than healing the old me. I see the great advantage of setting my sights on creating, it puts me in charge, in control of setting the agenda rather than letting the old stuff set it.
Carolyn - I love being da Bomb!!
Now that lifts my spirit! The day was good. Each day is turning around little by little. Thanks by to God.
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Yep - you got it! :D
Sorry I'm so dense to understand... I sometimes have the same problem with my own words!
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Just thinking of you,(((((((( GS))))))))))) Love Ami
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Each day is turning around little by little.
Dear GS... it surely shows... and Amen!!! to thanking God for the increase... in strength and fortitude and progress!
Still, there are times (wish I could call them moments, but unfortunately they're a bit longer-lasting) when my mind threatens to leap back into some old whirlwind of stinking thinking. At last, it's come to my attention that this phenomenon is a reappearance of that old rut which lies alongside the little hill on which I stand after achieving or accomplishing some satisfactory goal. From that rut hiss all sorts of accusatory voices, beckoning me to join them in the muck, where it's never enough and it's never right. Maybe it's the remnants of old perfectionism, I don't know, but it's nasty and dark and threatens to paralyze... and it is at just exactly that point where I've found it's absolutely imperative to simply do the next thing, even something small, but don't heed that siren call. Today was one of those extended moments. After work, the "next thing" to do was lie down for a brief nap... so I did. And the spell was broken. :)
Gotta love tossin another shovel-full of dirt onto those old hissing snakes. Boa constrictors they are, I think... squeezing the life right out of ya if you don't watch out. No more!
Love to you and a wonderful day tomorrow,
Carolyn
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After work, the "next thing" to do was lie down for a brief nap... so I did. And the spell was broken.
Way to go!! It's no walk in the park but heaven knows it is worth the battle. Humans were not created to live dark lives.
I am running into that old stuff regularly but I am not giving in. Reading, rewriting, looking forward, labeling the yetch as old, old stuff.
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Wow, GS. Just WOW!
:) :)
Carolyn, thank you so very much for that simple description. I am thinking about staying present and Next Thing. That is a really really helpful concept for me.
big hugs to you,
Hops
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((((((((((((Hops)))))))))) thanks. Actually, you have taught me the most about not feeling compelled to be super-woman... and that's a good thing, because I mighta died trying!! Even with the head-knowledge of all the anti-perfectionistic truths under the sun and the deep heart-knowledge of my own dire need for the grace of God, I still needed to hear someone in-skin say that I'm not perfect... and that's okay.
What a novel idea, eh? lol
No nap today, but I did just tell my son that I am officially out of "answer-woman mode" at this time and that I require a period of quiet restoration during which he will kindly keep his stream of consciousness silent... lol. whew. I needed that!
(((((((((((GS))))))))))) My recent couple of yetches (not sure what that is, but it sounds disgusting and therefore definitely fits!) have revolved around not being able to find something/solve something/answer something which appeared to be urgent at the time. Had to talk myself down from that state of urgency (panic, really) by reminding myself that the earth was turning on its axis before I realized my ineptitude and that it would continue to turn as I pondered alternative solutions to the issue at hand. Suddenly, it all didn't seem so dire anymore. Next time (and I am sure there will be a next time) I fully expect to accept my own lacks with even more grace than last time. Hope you were graceful to yourself today!
Love,
Carolyn
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when my worst fears come true, like I "feel" shamed, I can see that it won't kill me.
I am not there yet. My worst fears have come true fear that we will be rejected, abandoned, ridiculed, not good enough) and it does feel like it has killed me.
Dear GS -- Is has killed you. No, you are not gone, but your spirit was taken. Shame is a silent killer...it takes our soul. But your growth and determination to overcome is your genuine voice...not the voice of shame. I see your gentle determination, it shines through -- it is beautiful. Reflecting on this shows me that our real selves shine above all the toxic waste that was dumped on us as children.
For me, mourning the loss of self, the loss of my voice, the loss of rescue brings relief. Once again, it is those healing tears that cleanse us and remove the shame.
Somedays I can find the painful memories of my childhood evaporating into a peace that is of another dimension, something that I want more of.
Like you told me once...the light at the end of the tunnel is there, right?
Love,
Lise
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Somedays I can find the painful memories of my childhood evaporating into a peace that is of another dimension, something that I want more of.
This is so clearly the sign of healing to me. Have you ever read Agnes Sanford? I love her. She found that as she healed her painful memories were no longer painful.
the light at the end of the tunnel is there, right?
Absolutely.
I had another good day today. A combination of processing dealing with my mother at "grandparents day" (ultra passive-aggressive) and rewriting creating a repore(sp) with people who have been difficult in the past.
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You all continue to inspire. I'm pretty sure I saw some yetch in the baby's diaper this morning. :D
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GS-I have a mental picture of you climbing out of a dungeon. With each rung of the ladder there is this monster grabbing at your feet trying to pull you back in....but with much determination you are climbing and up above is an organized yard, a neat and tidy house and a smile on your face. You and your son have peace and serenity. Your parents hand you a check for a million bucks and tell you, "This is for nothing........just because we love you...."
OK, so I took it too far. I often wish my parents would do that for me.....
But the other part is right. You are climbing out. You are making progress!!
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((((((((((GS))))))))
Thinking of you, friend! Love Ami