Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Ami on May 05, 2008, 05:24:06 PM
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As I was sobbing last week , I really "felt" the extent of hopelessness I felt ,as a child. I was afraid to have any hope. It would have been too much to even expect a way out of this situation with my M. There was no escape, so *I* made the decision(unconsciously) to give up hope.
Lately, in present life, I notice the same feelings of hopelessness come over me. The message behind it is "You will never get whole or emotionally well." 'You will never overcome the effects of your M". "You are destined to be in this "loop" of circular pain, shame and hopelessness." "Why try,who do you think YOU are?"
I feel the oppression (hopelessness) come over me and I am trying to find the "words" behind it.
I am , also, questioning the "bad" image of myself. I read ,today, that that was shame.
I am trying to "check out" IF I am really "bad"
The real question is 'Am I human" or Am I bad?"
It seems so simple and nonsensical, but it makes "emotional" sense to me that I AM bad.
I hope by writing , I will get one step closer to seeing how "silly" and "unneccessary it is. Ami
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Ami,
I thought you were normal until age 14, which is past being a child and into a teen.
Can you not go back to that point?
You're in the pity-patch right now!
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For me, being "bad" is having "needs", I think. As I study Alice Miller, I see that there were some things I denied. One was I had needs, any. The other one is that everyone has needs.
The feeling "bad was any need. Any thing that I needed for myself , any way that I could be whole, not fractured and any building up of myself was "bad". Hence, my natural desire to grow and be independent and trust in myself was "bad" . I hope I am seeing this with the heart, so I can change. Ami
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Is it bad to be hungry, then eat?
Is it bad to be thirsty, then drink?
Is it bad to be freezing, then go in where it's warm?
Is is bad to be hot, then take a cool bath?
Is it bad to be sick, then see a doctor?
Is it bad to be lonely, then go see a friend?
Is it bad to want new shoes, then go buy them?
Is it bad to want to be happy, then go for it?
Those are just a few basic needs and no one is bad for fulfulling them. Think about it
You are not bad for having needs.
Did you deny your children when they had these needs?
Then why are you not entitled as well?????
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Ami......I do not think your feelings are "silly" or "unnecessary", they were absolutely lifesaving when you were a child. Take your feelings seriously now because they have something to tell you about your past and like most of here it is about unbearable pain. Our defenses, still in place, shield us from this still. It is, in essence, the old defenses which keep from us this old reality. They must be breached to find the truth they protect us from. The child could not survive this reality but you can as an adult when you find it. The hopelesness may be part of your childs world and you feel it now IMO. Can you feel what it was about? I was abandoned, terrorized, physically and psychologically abused, neglected, used for the needs of others and perhaps the greatest pain of all...I was not loved. These are some of the reasons I developed such strong dissociation. My mind could not let me feel reality as it was and it chose, in order to feel in control of a hopeless and life threatening situation, that I was "bad" and "disgusting". Of course this was not true but I believed it. The abuse created these feelings of shame about who I am on the deepest level with the aid of my defense system as it distorted reality so I was protected from the nightmare I grew up in. As you know, I have torn down a large part of my defense system and experienced this intense pain it was protecting me from. I am face to face with a lot of this and it's Ok now. I am accepting now my parents really do not love me, although they think they do. It is easy to see we have never had any relationship of importance in fact I don't know them and they don't know me, we are just stangers. Living with truth does hurt but I can face it now and survive.... its getting so much easier to own my feelings without shame. The worst of it all was the LIE. Now its gone and I am finding relief albeit painfully. I will support you as you do the same. I will not protect your parents. Dear Ami....it will take time to do this.......Love, James
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(((Ami))) and (((everyone on this topic)))
I really relate to everything shared here and shared a story from my past elsewhere that is relevant here, so you know I understand your experiences, all.
I gave up hope and desire for myself too Ami, so I did not build toward a future at all, but just drifted along without a plan or any effort to steer. I felt that hope was fruitless, that it was wrong to leave or want to leave (the family, but in my case - dad) and desire was wrong -selfish. Was taught that.
In reading your post Ami it struck me anew how you were coached to be an object for your mom's use to reflect upon herself always, to be available for that purpose, to never object. Earlier I read a post where you were talking about how the Nfamily is like a cult - it is! So true. Reality is what they say it is - who are you going to believe - them or the evidence of your own eyes. And you better say 'them.' :shock:
I'm really appreciating what everyone is sharing here and I want to say I particularly love what James said, that he will 'not protect your parents.' Thank you for that statement James. And also for saying that the lie is the worst and that living with truth is worth it.
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I am "blown away" by the responses to my thread.My heart is so full .
I see from feeling some of the deeper feelings , that I could NOT have needs, without being very shamed , as if a nuclear bomb was thrown on me, to wipe me out.
Lollie, you described beautifully the process of HOW needs are dealt with, in an abusive home. We are made to feel badly about our core self b/c we have the most basic of human needs. WE become bad, NOT the person abusing us(as should be the case) Alice Miller says this is the crux of our emotional "illness". WE have taken on the "bad" role and retain it, rather than shove it back on the person who did it. That is what Alice Miller does for the child. She is the advocate for the child. She would think of YOU with your frozen toes, NOT your F. Many regular "shrinks" could tell you,"Your F didn't mean it." That would shut you down,inside.
Your post was a wonderful gift, Lollie, a wonderful gift. Thank you. Love Ami
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Ami......I do not think your feelings are "silly" or "unnecessary", they were absolutely lifesaving when you were a child. Take your feelings seriously now because they have something to tell you about your past and like most of here it is about unbearable pain. Our defenses, still in place, shield us from this still. It is, in essence, the old defenses which keep from us this old reality. They must be breached to find the truth they protect us from. The child could not survive this reality but you can as an adult when you find it. The hopelesness may be part of your childs world and you feel it now IMO. Can you feel what it was about? I was abandoned, terrorized, physically and psychologically abused, neglected, used for the needs of others and perhaps the greatest pain of all...I was not loved. These are some of the reasons I developed such strong dissociation. My mind could not let me feel reality as it was and it chose, in order to feel in control of a hopeless and life threatening situation, that I was "bad" and "disgusting". Of course this was not true but I believed it. The abuse created these feelings of shame about who I am on the deepest level with the aid of my defense system as it distorted reality so I was protected from the nightmare I grew up in. As you know, I have torn down a large part of my defense system and experienced this intense pain it was protecting me from. I am face to face with a lot of this and it's Ok now. I am accepting now my parents really do not love me, although they think they do. It is easy to see we have never had any relationship of importance in fact I don't know them and they don't know me, we are just stangers. Living with truth does hurt but I can face it now and survive.... its getting so much easier to own my feelings without shame. The worst of it all was the LIE. Now its gone and I am finding relief albeit painfully. I will support you as you do the same. I will not protect your parents. Dear Ami....it will take time to do this.......Love, James
Dear James,
Thank you for this post. It validates what I was trying to express. It goes in to my heart and explains what I could NOT express. The hopelessness of the child with an NM (or any abuse) is so deep. You have to throw away hope and you become "gray". I am still gray,inside.
I don't know what "gray" is exactly, but it may be the 'Why try, everything hurts". It may be 'Why get excited and full of joy, it will hurt MORE to do that than to be "dead"
One reason I gave up ,on life, was that everything seemed gray and it still does. I hate to say that, but it is true. There is a gray lens,inside me, and all experieneces flow from the gray .
I am so happy to be able to talk about it here and have people understand.
To meet a person, in their heart pain and to say,'It is OK" is a gift, with an incalculable value. Thank you, James. Love Ami
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(((Ami))) and (((everyone on this topic)))
I really relate to everything shared here and shared a story from my past elsewhere that is relevant here, so you know I understand your experiences, all.
I gave up hope and desire for myself too Ami, so I did not build toward a future at all, but just drifted along without a plan or any effort to steer. I felt that hope was fruitless, that it was wrong to leave or want to leave (the family, but in my case - dad) and desire was wrong -selfish. Was taught that.
In reading your post Ami it struck me anew how you were coached to be an object for your mom's use to reflect upon herself always, to be available for that purpose, to never object. Earlier I read a post where you were talking about how the Nfamily is like a cult - it is! So true. Reality is what they say it is - who are you going to believe - them or the evidence of your own eyes. And you better say 'them.' :shock:
I'm really appreciating what everyone is sharing here and I want to say I particularly love what James said, that he will 'not protect your parents.' Thank you for that statement James. And also for saying that the lie is the worst and that living with truth is worth it.
Thank you for that post, Iphi.
I DO feel the emptiness of a cult member. I look inside to what SHOULD be a rich world of feelings, thoughts and emotions, and there is a blank. I never really faced it or talked about it,but it IS there, a blank, where a "person" should be. It feels good to face it. It feels like a relief.
Obviously, no one would become a "blank" if they could have maintained the "richness" of their own inner experience. They became a blank b/c they HAD to.
My shock at learning of Scott's death taught me so much. It happened in an 'instant" and I was fully aware of it. I saw myself move from one state(conscious awareness) to another state(shock, numb, unreal). It happened in an instant and it was involuntary.
I see how we ,as children, did the same thing. Our "problems" could be called all sorts of names,but they were "shock'(IMO)
Many therapies put the fault on you, the victim, the TRUE victim.
James showed me the way out, to feel those deep ,blocked feelings, and I have hope, for the first time, really, that I can heal,in a true way, not just "words".
Love Ami
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You, on this thread, have given the courage to face what is inside me, today.
Usually, I would 'run away" from my feelings in to "addictions" ,even if they are just coffee, exercise or shopping. Even cleaning the house can be an addiction(although I don't go" there" ,very often(lol)
Now, I will sit with these feelings. They are "Why bother?"
I see the truth of what Alice Miller says, peaking out from behind the blinds. It WAS my M, the horrible monster. It was NOT me, the little kid. It was NOT me who was "bad. It was NOT me who was flawed. It was NOT me, who should be punished. If I had gotten beaten up by thugs, would I have "empathy" for the thugs ?
Miller says that your empathy has to be for YOU. That is the first step to healing.
This post may raise people's defenses. I am sorry if that happens. I am free to explore my voice and I give others that same freedom.I expect it,also. Ami
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Dear Amber
My heart tells me to go with James's (Alice Millers)way of approaching healing. There are many different schools of thoughts and theories. Ultimately, your own heart has to show you the way. James showed me the way that seems right to me. I have so happy for your breakthroughs, Amber. Ami
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I am seeing that the pain is IN the lying to protect the system(our parents). WE took on the "badness", the shame and guilt ,to protect the "system" which "told" us we were loved when our bodies and souls knew that we were being "destroyed "and it was NOT "love".Is`"love" when you have to jettison your feelings, thoughts and "self" to conform ?
Ami
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Amber/Ami....Amber , I think what you are saying is true. It is necessary to find the suppressed stuff but once it processes it is OK then to let it go. My T pointed out the same thing to me, that I was hurting myself by over doing it. A real turning point for me was expressing my rage at the parents, this broke the back of my dependency issues and then after this a lot of 'stuff" started floating to the surface and with it the pain. These experiences had to be felt and sometimes more than once. Did you experience something similar Amber? I also experienced some of this in the form of "primals". These were shocking but the insight I gained was almost beyond belief. Down on brain/body levels this deep the changes I experienced are so real. After these I always try to go deep. There is plenty of controversy abt these. Arthur Janov says conventional therapy cannot get deep enough to produce the change many are looking for. Alice Miller who also underwent this therapy now says for some it's dangerous and may not work in the long run,(I tend to disagree with her) and she no longer advocates its use. Personally I am somewhere in-between b/c I have experienced both. I say both b/c Miller advocates expressing the rage as the key to understanding our old stuff. I do know from experience that "primals" are unlike anything I have experienced and it would be hard for someone to understand what they really are until they have experienced them. I view recovery in terms of affecting the brain chemistry.......Hope this makes some sense....James
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Thank you, James, for that post.
For me, I have not really owned the truth, emotionally, about the suppressed stuff, EVEN though I have talked about it intellectually, many times.
Inside me, I have not felt and faced the truth and that is what I am trying to do, at the heart level, which is ALL that really matters, as Alice Miller says. Love Ami
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As`I REALLY feel and see the "truth" about my M, on a heart(emotional) level, I feel more centered. Trying to lie about her and "protect" her in actual life, as well as in my mind caused me to get uncentered.
When I was my healthiest in life, I saw her the MOST clearly. As I got more "emotionally ill", I saw her as "good". When I was my most healthiest, I saw her as very, very screwed up and not to be trusted. It was truth and truth is the main ingredient in mental health.Truth is painful, though.
Ami
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Yes James - I did experience a whole lot of being with my emotions. But working with my T, she wouldn't allow me to get "stuck" in re-experiencing the emotions - have them, feel them, and then take a break - do something that makes me feel GOOD, too - and then talk about them. She was teaching me, I think, that I could feel everything - not just the radioactive waste stuck in my unconscious...
I have no idea what philosophy my T follows - but with my obsessive nature, it was vital that I didn't continue "banging my head on the brick wall" of those emotions, over & over. I mean: how else was I going to feel about what happened to me? I was going to be hurt, I was going to be extremely angry... sad... afraid...
and her role was to help me feel better. That is, after all, the goal of therapy.
Because in the end, what I've come to is that those awful feelings were exactly the correct response to the situation I was facing. The only reason I had those feelings in my present life (inappropriately), was because what I'd suppressed were the facts, the events, the memories... of what happened to me. Once the memories came back - the emotions lifted from my present life. (They still exist in conjunction with the memories...and all that's in the past and doesn't affect me NOW...)
It's a fine line, I guess - between sitting with a feeling, working with it - and walking the dangerous edge of immersing yourself in a feeling without the possibility of a constructive result. For me, that would be hopelessness - total lack of power to control my own feelings and life - and I surely don't have any desire to go there, especially doing it to myself. Absolutely not useful to my healing, at all. Absolutely a dangerous place to go...
because if you accept hopelessness, despair, lack of control of your own emotions without the possibility of a benefit... to me, this is self-abuse. There is really only so much pain we can bear as humans - and I believe that Ami has borne way more than her share. I'm only suggesting that maybe it's time to put that burden down and try another path... maybe in addition to sitting with the emotions.
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For me, Amber, this is the first time I have felt free from deep pain, in my life. My "new" way of healing, which James showed me, is the way to go , for me. Ami
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As long as you're getting free of the pain, Ami... it doesn't matter what method you use. I'm happy for you! I was simply concerned that you were getting mired in nothing BUT pain... and oh so worried for you.
I think maybe understanding each other is just beyond arm's reach for both of us at the moment: I'm not quite getting what you're saying and so I'm saying things that are maybe irrelevant. Thanks for being patient. I think I'm entering a whole new "place" of being me... and meanings, perceptions, etc are changing. It's all good, though... I'm just a bit discombobulated.
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I feel very clear on my path to healing. I know,with certainty, that I am on the right path. As such, I can see other paths which are not right for me. Wishing you well. Ami
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You know Am I think there comes a point when our mothers lose their power over us. Yes sometimes just one conversation can push us over the edge but we need to clear our head and remember those are just knee jerk reactions to an in grained aversion to our moms. Mantra. SHE HOLDS NO POWER OVER ME. SHE HOLDS NO POWER OVER ME! I AM A WONDERFUL PERSON! I CAN DISAGREE WITH MY MOM AND IT IS OK! We are ok. They do not own us. We are not bad! We are sweet and cute and we think the world of us!
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Dear Kelly,
The problem with that approach is that our "original" feelings of pain, hopelessness , rejection, betrayal, etc are locked in our brains and our bodies. That is why positive thinking, so to speak, does not work(IME) .
Addictions, repeitive lifestyle choices (like many marriages and divorces) etc spring from unconscious patterns held deep inside. If positive thinking worked, I would be the first one on the band wagon.
I wish it did,Kelly, but I don't think it does. Love Ami
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Ami - I think your "bad self" is a lie. You and I have talked about the lies that NP's tell us. You are so brave - taking the hard road to discovering your goodness and discarding the lies.
Kate
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Thanks so much,Kate. Your words really touch me! Love Ami
(((((((Kate))))))))
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I agree that those bad feelings are locked in our unconscious and are made known to us through our bodies, through the ways we seem to always choose bad things for ourselves.
Once those feelings are known... then for many of us, the "releasing" part involved allowing ourselves to think and feel the REST of us... the good feelings and good thoughts about our selves. Just a tad bit different experience, than what's known as "positive thinking". I agree with you again - just repeating a good thought about ourselves without believing it doesn't banish the unconscious radioactive waste...
... until something in you SHIFTS** - is allowed to shift - into the rest of your feelings (the unprogrammed ones) you won't be able to generate new beliefs and hopes about yourself... sounds like this is starting to happen for you now. It can be a strange place and I only became aware of it happening after I was well into it. It's gradual in the extreme. Maybe it even starts while we're still focussed on the negative feelings... I'm not sure. But at some point, I think I realized I could feel lots things at the same time - and they weren't all negative. And slowly - that center of gravity of "me" - started shifting; it was freed from the control of the unknown, unseen, unconscious...and it's still losing power over me.
** like awareness, perception, consciousness, heart/spirit
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No I agree Ami. This new book I am reading talks about these negative neuropaths we have in our brains - not easy to erase those negative impulses that have been ingrained all our lives. But what we can say whenever we have the strength to say it is SHE HOLDS NO POWER OVER ME. It may not be right but I believe we have to talk it and think it and talk it and think it. I will give more of a book report as I progress through the book. I want to know what this woman says about how to erase those "trees" of negative emotions we have ingrained in our brains!
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Dear Kelly,
I have ,already, had success with James helping me. He allowed me to feel deep feelings by simply being on my(the inner child's ) side. You have to study the Enlightened Witness by Alice Miller to understand how it works.
I never had the feeling of anyone on MY side. We don't, usually, all our lives. We get the "message" to get over it etc.
It is very powerful to have a person ,who has been through some deep healing, to be by your side as you truly see what happened to you.
I got deep healing this way. I ,already, feel different so I know, with everything in me, that it works. It is not theory for me.
Amber, I have no desire to debate theory b/c I "know'. Ami
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Just a point of clarification -
I'm not quoting anybody's work or experience but my own. It's not a theory to me, either. I also "know"...
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Great. Then we both ,know.
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The way out into a real freedom is thru our recognition of how we play out old traumas unconsciously, daily recreating almost exact copies of our past, in an attempt to find resolution.(the body's natural drive to process trauma) Until we are aware of this, nothing can really change. We find the real insight to do this only if we face the old pain and gain the true insight of what happened. Much of our adult pain is nothing more than this unconscious replay but we fail to understand what seems so real is NOT NOW, it is actually about THEN. We cannot change until we find this about ourselves. When we do find this truth we realize it is about THEN and can never be worked out in the present thru recreation because it is not real NOW.(the players and circumstances have changed) Feeling the old pain will provide us the insight needed to see the fallacy of what we have been doing. This insight occurs as we finally process the old trauma by way of experiencing the repressed feelings and then appears the truth about what we have been unconsciously doing. Then it can be over for good. Positive thinking, intellectualizing , Mantras etc etc will never work, because in essence deny the truth. I hope this makes sense. Unless a person finds this to be true for themselves it is almost nearly impossible to explain it and have a person experience it as real. At the very best most usually see it only intellectually. I have seen many people think they understand the unconscious but they really don't. Many therapists fall into this category and thats why they are ineffective..........James
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That post, James , cannot be improved on, other than to say Thank You. Love Ami
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I want to add to my previous post that a persons difficulty in going back, whether they think it unimportant or don't feel it necessary to feel the old pain IMO is really the enormous unconscious fear/pain we experienced still at play and making false reasoning in our consciousness now as to why we should not revisit the past. The fear/pain may have been so great that we could not survive. Because of this it is necessary to have someone accompany us on this journey now. It is essential they be healed so they don't interfere with their own unconscious fears and keep us from our truth. And then the child feelings we once knew can be experienced in all their pain in the company of what we did not have. Someone who can support us in the truth abt what we find and not blame us but stand solidly behind the child we were, existing now only in memories..........James
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Positive thinking, intellectualizing , Mantras etc etc will never work, because in essence deny the truth. I hope this makes sense. Unless a person finds this to be true for themselves it is almost nearly impossible to explain it and have a person experience it as real.
I feel validated to read that someone else thinks as I do, in so much as I don't believe that "Positive Thinking" works.
How can it? When for the last 20 years plus -- numerous authors, Christian and secular, have churned out "Positive Thinking" books and programs -- with 12 keys to this and that! And the same people are still, today, buying the latest program of books and tapes!
I know they don't work because I purchased many 12 keys / steps "Positive Thinking" books, tapes, videos, dvds, during my time as a new Christian in the 90's -- and they made no difference at all.
Whereas, now, I have worked through my healing and for the first time in my life -- I am healed, totally different, having been set free!
"Kenyonism" does not work!
Just my personal experience, as I really do know the difference, in my life, now. The truth has set me free, indeed.
Leah x
PS> And my heart weeps for those of whom I personally know who are still "bound" and unhappy, having spent over 20 years of their life purchasing each new 12 Keys / steps, books and merchandise, and remain so unhappy with feelings of "bad" -- because the "Keys / Steps" and "Positive Thinking" have not worked for them! Sadly, they await the next "new thing"
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GS...I don't know enough about your specifics, as posted here, but in my mind it would stand to reason a good test of the integrity of what you are experiencing would to be ask yourself the question... if you have felt the real hurt.... if current painful feelings start to dissolve and you experince very meaniful insight as this happens, relief and the feeling of freedom will emerge and it will be lasting...This would be proof of an actual real processing of old trauma IMO.....James
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Leah......it is sad to see people deluding themselves thru the false promises of other people. Everyone must find their own courage to face their past, unique only to them. These gurus are only deluding themselves thru the glorification of their lies by others following, then they almost believe what they writeand still don't find the courage to face their own pain......James
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James,
I so agree, a few of the top 10 "authors" I have have personally met, and in particular, one charismatic "author" (who arrogantly laughed at people and called out to them "you ugly thing!") would not permit his daughter to be buried, because he adamantly refused to accept that she had died and wanted her to be brought back to life. And so each day he spent with his daughter in "denial" chanting his "Positive Thinking / Confession." The whole scenario was heartbreaking and must have caused him as a person, immense mental anguish, I would think.
Leah x
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Leah......this is certainly a shocking example of the massive power of denial at work. Can you imagine the trauma that drove this man to such a delusional and almost insane state of hopeless belief? I hope you don't waste your precious time anymore under the spell of such people......Love, James
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James - amazing great posts - you are really the voice of experience on this and I immensely appreciate it. Want to shout 'yeah!'
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(((((((((((Iphi)))))))) You are doing SO well, Iphi! Love Ami
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Wow James amazing stuff. The book I am reading says some of these same things. It talks about how we recreate our lives over and over and over trying to get it right. But we end up making the same mistakes. She also said that repressed memories take up a lot of emotion to keep them down and they wreak havoc on our bodies more than the anger and rage and other toxic emotions. I still do not get how you speak them away although she did talk about when a negative thought comes into our minds and we usually have an emotional response (like when our mom says something that pushes our buttons) we are to even speak outloud - ok, Kelly, this is an example of your mom pushing your buttons. What she is saying is not true so do not get angry, just know that that is mom and she cannot help but to say things like that to you. It is HER. Apparently you try to nip the emotional response. I guess when she said I had borderline personality disorder I should have laughed in her face and went into the bathroom and spoke outloud - Kelly, this is her attempt to rationalize her behavior and of course, she would try to project her issues on to you. Do not let her get the best of you......it is her problem. Do not own it.
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Dear Kelly
You have to have help with someone getting you in to the "space" where you re-feel the old emotions, again. They are buried--repressed. You just can't "will " to feel them. You need s/one to help who knows what they are doing. That has been MY experience,in the last two weeks, but James can answer more and I may be wrong.
I am so glad that it makes sense to you, Kelly. Love Ami
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Iphi..........Reading your thread yesterday, it was obvious to me you are there now. The way you let your body speak and understand it's voice is amazing. In this way you will eventually heal but it does take time to do this. I know the terror and pain feel so real but it is about back then not now. I am on the side of the little girl you were and the woman you have grown into......James
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Overcomer........IMO rage and anger are not toxic emotions. They are normal emotions and only when they are not expressed and often repressed do they actually become toxic to the body. They have a story to tell. We can only access old child emotions thru current situations that open the door to our past.....James
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Dear Kelly
You have to have help with someone getting you in to the "space" where you re-feel the old emotions, again. They are buried--repressed. You just can't "will " to feel them. You need s/one to help who knows what they are doing. That has been MY experience,in the last two weeks, but James can answer more and I may be wrong.
I am so glad that it makes sense to you, Kelly. Love Ami
My experience was a bit different; I don't think I would've benefited from someone being with me while I worked through memory to the emotions/events that were repressed...on the contrary; I would've been too inhibited. I'm glad you could be there and do this for Ami, James. What I found in my process, was that I was now strong enough to let the memories lead me and to feel those feelings on my own... and this, to me, was evidence that I had nothing to fear from my own emotions; I needn't fear being overwhelmed or flooded anymore; I was able to "turn on the light and see that there were no monsters under my bed"; nothing going to jump out & eat me; nothing to be afraid of - because the memories & feelings were ME. I went at my own pace, bit by bit - and rested and evaluated and processed, when I needed to. That was before I found VESMB.
The value for me - is that I could OWN all those memories; no one prompted me, suggested anything, put ideas in my head... and consequently, the same was true for my emotions. Once this stuff becomes "known"... the power/fear begin to recede... or they did for me. The beginning of acceptance, a fact in the timeline of my personal history, the beginning of letting it go...
It sounds like we're all talking about the same thing, here... using different words, coming at it from different places, ya know? Each one owns their own experience of this; the uniqueness of it... but there are commonalities that make recognition (oh! I know that!) and empathy (oh! I've been there! Poor dear!) possible.
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Lollie,
Were you hiding in my house when I was growing up??? Just reading your post about made me break into a sweat. How can these people believe they are normal? How do they go on each day and pretend they are human????
James, it is so nice to see you moving forward and finding so much sense and reason!!!!
Ami, I am feeling frustraed with the whole FOO and wish they would just be out of my life. I guess since we can't have that, we have to cope. I am not feeling much like coping.
Everyone, this post has so much in it, I will read and reread it all.
Love, Beth
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I agree with Beth. There is so much wisdom on this thread. Love Ami
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Leah......this is certainly a shocking example of the massive power of denial at work. Can you imagine the trauma that drove this man to such a delusional and almost insane state of hopeless belief? I hope you don't waste your precious time anymore under the spell of such people......Love, James
James,
I so resonate with what you have so succinctly expressed regarding "the massive power of denial" at work, for that is how I perceived the situation, and yes, I believe he became delusional, as did many others.
I am happy to report that I broke free from the "charismania" church a few years ago now, however, it took a very long time to heal from the "spiritual abuse" - which I now believe, is a serious, harmful, form of abuse, indeed.
Thank you so much for your understanding and validation, very much appreciated and valued.
Love, Leah
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You know,Leah, I am feeling angry at some Christian teachers b/c I feel that they are hurting people b/c THEY are unhealed. Scott went up to one prominent Christian teacher to be prayed for. Scott was crying about his F. The guy said,"Get over it'---BLEH!
Ami
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You know,Leah, I am feeling angry at some Christian teachers b/c I feel that they are hurting people b/c THEY are unhealed. Scott went up to one prominent Christian teacher to be prayed for. Scott was crying about his F. The guy said,"Get over it'---BLEH!
Ami
Dear Ami,
I can well believe it, I heard one "Top 10" charismatic preacher/teacher tell everyone to "suck it up" and quit complaining etc etc. I believe they are hurting people because they are walking "in the flesh" in "power and control" over people. Sadly, humility and a servant heart is not a "hot topic" -- evidently, not welcome in their "ministry." I share from personal experience.
I am saddened to know that young Scott endured such heartbreaking "spiritual abuse" -- I know how that feels as a mother, for my young son was greatly hurt and I have only recently forgiven myself, having deep regret and grief, for my dear son having been subjected to "spiritual abuse."
Love, Leah