Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Ami on May 08, 2008, 06:57:52 PM
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I feel these feelings of sadness come over me.They are deep, cries of pain for my losses in childhood. They may feel like they are from current situations, but they are from throwing my real self away, like a boat throwing off cargo ,to prevent sinking.
I had to prevent sinking.
Why else would you do this? Ami
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Drink too much to prevent sinking. Eat too much to prevent sinking. Anything to keep those feelings at bay. Then the escape becomes one of the problems. I think I did not realize I was sinking until 40. Before that it was just a nagging feeling of discontent.
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Dear Kelly
I am so glad you "got" this. I am getting the inkling it was NOT my fault, which is a tremendous relief.
Love Ami
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Honey - I know this is not our fault. And the fact that our mothers continue to have such a negative impact on us.....it is criminal!!! We have got to get better. This is no way to live - in a constant state of turmoil!!! Someone once told me to imagine my mom in Minnie Mouse clothing. Talking real squeaky and high pitched. Then she if what she says has any impact on us......not they become comedy....
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I feel these feelings of sadness come over me.They are deep, cries of pain for my losses in childhood. They may feel like they are from current situations, but they are from throwing my real self away, like a boat throwing off cargo ,to prevent sinking.
I had to prevent sinking.
Why else would you do this? Ami
Ami -- compassionate hugs to you. Let the tears roll...you will be OK, you are OK, the sadness is OK.
Love,
Lise
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The sadness - the loss - is you saying:
I MATTER. I'm IMPORTANT. How I FEEL is important.
The sadness is you caring about & loving yourself. It's a great gift.
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Dear Kelly
I am so glad you "got" this. I am getting the inkling it was NOT my fault, which is a tremendous relief.
Love Ami
Thanks Kelly, now I get it, profound.
Dear Ami,
That inkling is a seed, a freedom for it to grow for you from the inside out. I hear your relief, breaking through to the other side, the TRUTH!!!!!!!!
((much love)) seasons
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Thank you, Seasons, Amber, Lise and Kelly,
When I wrote this thread I expected some version of 'Don't have a pity party'.
However, I need to be where *I* am . I am not going to "fake" being s/place else, for s/one elses's comfort.
That was my original childhood problem.I had to throw off my true feelings b/c s/one would get mad at me or punish me, in many different forms.
Healing involves re-claiming WHERE you are,not where it looks "pretty" to be. Love Ami
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Ami,
However, I need to be where *I* am . I am not going to "fake" being s/place else, for s/one elses's comfort.
That was my original childhood problem.I had to throw off my true feelings b/c s/one would get mad at me or punish me, in many different forms.
Healing involves re-claiming WHERE you are,not where it looks "pretty" to be.
Wow, this is huge, I have I have felt my whole life except you put it into words. Making it look pretty, being a good girl, protecting ourselves, trying to survive being a child.
But we are not children anymore. Even though I have to remind myself I do have power, only over myself.
Your words are like poetry to my heart. Watching you reclaim your life is a life preserver for others. Thanks you for bravely sharing your deepest needs, without it I wouldn't be able to hear such healing words of wisdom. ((seasons))
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Oh My Gosh
I am so touched , Seasons. I found an Enlightened Witness, James, who let me just "be", in the Alice Miller way. and just feel what the child felt and was WITH me as I re-claimed my true feelings, not the
intellectual" ones I "should have" like the "parent did the best they could". The little child felt what they felt and they will KEEP replaying it until it is felt .
However, it is really hard to re -feel it ,all alone. Go to the Alice Miller web site, if this sounds right to you.
If you could find s/one, a therapist of a friend who understood , who could be WITH you, in the process, I know you could heal,once and for all,b/c *I* am. Love Ami
((((Seasons)))))))
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This week I am feeling sad too. I feel sad that I never had friends to play with, sleepovers, a normal childhood. I am grateful I could give that to my children, but I just feel so sad...
Love, Beth
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We get to experience "self"-pity because in our families, no one pitied us for the horrors that we endured, no one comforted us when others were cruel, no one pitied us when we fell on our faces. It is the comfort and pity that must come before the boosting and encouragement. We must be welcomed by loving arms and held and comforted before we can regain our composure and persevere.
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I am experiencing many feelings as I try to have "integrity", strength and trust in myself. I have SHOWN anger to a primary person in my life.
I have made several decisions to show anger and also, express my OWN thoughts. I feel afraid, BUT I realize that I carry this fear with me, all the time anyway, as I try to be servile .
My "pleasing " attitude is a way to push down the fear I have now. I am trying to "manage" if s/one else gets angry or leaves me.
All I can say is "It is scary"(lol) Ami
PS I think this fear is feeling like I cannot master my OWN ship. I must,obsessively, give it up to another, many others, anyone, to tell me how to be , think and act. I must get outside permission ,so I don't make a "mistake".All these things are behind the fear.What would I do to myself, if I made a mistake. That is my real fear,of myself and my own critical self image--bleh.
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I cannot master my OWN ship. I must,obsessively, give it up to another, many others, anyone, to tell me how to be , think and act. I must get outside permission ,so I don't make a "mistake".All these things are behind the fear.What would I do to myself, if I made a mistake.
Big one, Ami. You've asked a very big question. I think this question will take you somewhere new.
It's amazing how often it's really figuring out what the question is, rather than getting the answers.
love
Hops
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This week I am feeling sad too. I feel sad that I never had friends to play with, sleepovers, a normal childhood. I am grateful I could give that to my children, but I just feel so sad...
Love, Beth
(((Beth))) What a loving mother. Hope the sadness goes away soon for you. love seasons
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We get to experience "self"-pity because in our families, no one pitied us for the horrors that we endured, no one comforted us when others were cruel, no one pitied us when we fell on our faces.
GS - I think you're absolutely right. We are allowed this kind of self-pity when we experience or re-experience those original wounds. Part of the abusive environment we grew up in, was that we weren't even allowed to feel sorry for ourselves about such huge disappointments, heart-wounds, and meanness.... when in reality, people should've been scooping us up in warm, strong arms and rocking us, smoothing our hair & letting the tears soak the shoulders of shirts until we were ready to feel better again - and ready to allow feeling better, in.
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I have a memory of my Dad that is so important to me, and it makes me realize even more how grateful I am to have had him in my life...I think it represents one source I had that made all the difference as I tried to climb out of Nmother and Nbrother damage.
I had struggled so hard in school to be accepted and liked and failed miserably. In second grade I was so eager to participate and be liked. The teacher (I found out later) was an active alcoholic who LOATHED my mother (who taught 1st grade in the same small school). She loathed my mother's prim goodiness to the point that she would start humming The Old Rugged Cross when Mom walked by. I had no idea of these things, except to sense that for some reason this grownup lady really disliked me, and it was the first time in my young life I'd been disliked by an adult (other kids, I half-expected, because of my brother's behavior). But not the TEACHER. (I worshipped teachers on principle, as both my parents taught).
Anyway, this teacher had a ritual of writing a Privilege Message on the blackboard. Every morning as the class filed in, some lucky/good student would have a message. E.g., Fred, please carry a message to the office for me. Susie, take these 2 library books up to the library. Understand, for 7 and 8 year olds, this was a BIG DEAL! They'd puff with pride and carry out their duty. I was just barely six and tiny, but BOY, did I want a message/duty. And she knew it too, because I was so transparently eager.
So one day, the blackboard said, Hops, come up to my desk for a message. I HOPPED from my seat and eagerly went up, little heart all pumping with joy...and she glared at me and said (loud enough for the class to hear): "You have an Unsatisfactory in Conduct, because you talk too much. Now take this home to your parents."
I didn't even understand the word, but I understood her tone. I was crushed. When I got home I was so sad I coudln't even talk. My mother took one look and, at least bless her for knowing her limits, said to my father, You'd better handle this. Dad took me to the living room, put on a stack of the gorgeous symphonies he knew I loved as much as he, and just pulled me onto his lap, wordlessly. I will always remember sitting there in his arms, maybe crying a little, but mostly just knowing that in that silent embrace, offering me the comfort of music (the only emotional language he really could use, but we had that in common) and his arms, the rough scratchy wool of his jacket, and his quiet attention to just me (no papers or books) while we sat there for a long long time.
I was still a sad little girl, but that was a moment that affirmed for me that I truly was loved. And I wish for every sore heart here that each person here had had at least one parent or loving relative who had touched them with kindness or responded to their pain with a gesture of love.
I send spongey shoulders by the ether, for what they're worth, they're here.
(((((((((((((all-a y'all)))))))))
Hops
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Hops,
What a sweet story... and gosh, do I know what you mean about being transparent and sooooo wanting people to like you. I did that so much of my childhood. I am glad your dad was there to make that horrid day nicer.
Love, Beth
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Wow, this has gotten to be a great thread. Hops, it is so sad that the other teacher had to get back at a helpless child b/c she disliked the mother.
Today, I felt "grief" come over me, but not as intensely. I have made the intellectual decision to try to act with more integrity(wholeness) and not to "melt" in to other people so I will be loved.
I feel a little calmer, inside.
However, I still have the feelings of grief. I think it is from being disconnected from myself. I think it is the grief of HAVING to make the decision to throw myself away. I really do think THAT is the grief. I ,still, run away with coffee, exercise, talking on the phone, and shopping. However, the grief feels a little more accessible to me. It has more of a shape and ,as such, I will be able to grab it, at some point and let it go.
As I have healed the "melting" in to people ,for love, my stomach has gotten better. I think of all the pain people go through with medical procedures when the root was emotional pain Ami
Part of the grief is a hopelessness of "Why try?" and "Why bother?".Nothing will change, it is unchangeable. It has to be how I felt as a child,just being replayed in the present.I am sure of it.
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I got angry at s/one I love and they still love me. It is amazing. I ,even, was strong in things that would make them mad, but were , important to say. I feel like the happiest person b/c I can be whole and still be loved. I am crying tears of relief. I thought you could ONLY be loved if you anticipated other people's needs and satisfied them. .Independence NEVER went along with love,for me. Subservience went along with love.
It is all new, for me, but wonderful, too wonderful for words.I don't HAVE to lose me,in order to be loved. Ami
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Ami........I am so glad you are my friend. You've got a lot of great qualities and having guts is one of them. I am totally on your side and I consider this an honor. I had a pretty good day myself. I dared to get angry, really angry and see the truth of what happened with my FOO. I trusted my guts/perceptions and followed thru. All 4 of them cruelly used and abused me and then blamed me and my reactions.... especially my anger in order to shut me down so they would not have to face the truth of what they were doing and why. They are just cruel cowards, even willing to sacrifice their own flesh and blood rather than to know the TRUTH. Anger IS OKAY and it is a real door that allowed me to see the truth of their lies. I almost died from their abuse and lack of love and I even blamed myself thru all of it. They could have stopped it but they chose not to. I can see now the reality of evil and good and I was never evil as I believed but THEIR actions were. I finally know what love is and what evil looks like. In my wildest dreams, I would never have believed I would be forced to learn this lesson by way of my own family, those people who I was entrusted to for safe keeping. To see the truth of these people I loved but who did not love me takes guts but it is setting me free. You will find the same too. This little boy is growing up now and if they ever try this again I am going to kick some A**. I think you're doing great.....Love you, James
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I got angry at s/one I love and they still love me. It is amazing. I ,even, was strong in things that would make them mad, but were , important to say. I feel like the happiest person b/c I can be whole and still be loved. I am crying tears of relief. I thought you could ONLY be loved if you anticipated other people's needs and satisfied them. .Independence NEVER went along with love,for me. Subservience went along with love.
It is all new, for me, but wonderful, too wonderful for words.I don't HAVE to lose me,in order to be loved. Ami
Way to go Ami!!!!!!!!! I feel your joy, celebrating your break through with you, and kuddos to your friend, because that is a true friend. ((love to you both))
seasons, who can imagine how wonderul it is.
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Ami........I am so glad you are my friend. You've got a lot of great qualities and having guts is one of them. I am totally on your side and I consider this an honor. I had a pretty good day myself. I dared to get angry, really angry and see the truth of what happened with my FOO. I trusted my guts/perceptions and followed thru. All 4 of them cruelly used and abused me and then blamed me and my reactions.... especially my anger in order to shut me down so they would not have to face the truth of what they were doing and why. They are just cruel cowards, even willing to sacrifice their own flesh and blood rather than to know the TRUTH. Anger IS OKAY and it is a real door that allowed me to see the truth of their lies. I almost died from their abuse and lack of love and I even blamed myself thru all of it. They could have stopped it but they chose not to. I can see now the reality of evil and good and I was never evil as I believed but THEIR actions were. I finally know what love is and what evil looks like. In my wildest dreams, I would never have believed I would be forced to learn this lesson by way of my own family, those people who I was entrusted to for safe keeping. To see the truth of these people I loved but who did not love me takes guts but it is setting me free. You will find the same too. This little boy is growing up now and if they ever try this again I am going to kick some A**. I think you're doing great.....Love you, James
Dear James,
I can see your strength in your stand with your parents. You got in touch with another layer of truth( and the feelings) That gave you, back ,more of yourself .You expressed more of what needed to be expressed---the depth of your anger about the violation by your family.
Our lives were so awful and so stuck that it may have been a" gift' that we must find our true voice. It is a passion, not a perhaps.
Thank you for your friendship. It is one of the most precious gifts I have ever gotten.
When you have a friend who lets your truth come out and just "be", you can go against what you "should" feel to what you "really" feel. It is like the Mastercard commercial---priceless.
Love Ami
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I got angry at s/one I love and they still love me. It is amazing. I ,even, was strong in things that would make them mad, but were , important to say. I feel like the happiest person b/c I can be whole and still be loved. I am crying tears of relief. I thought you could ONLY be loved if you anticipated other people's needs and satisfied them. .Independence NEVER went along with love,for me. Subservience went along with love.
It is all new, for me, but wonderful, too wonderful for words.I don't HAVE to lose me,in order to be loved. Ami
Way to go Ami!!!!!!!!! I feel your joy, celebrating your break through with you, and kuddos to your friend, because that is a true friend. ((love to you both))
seasons, who can imagine how wonderul it is.
Dear Seasons,
There is a "gift" that some people have to be able to encourage others. You have that, Seasons.You were so right about my true friend. It is very "different" from the paradigm of our families, where you had to twist and turn for your psychic survival. I had to become "blank".It is scary to start letting my original self write it's story.
My friend told me love was there to stay.I don't know what is sweeter than that.
Thanks for being "you", Seasons. Love Ami
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I am really getting in touch with the "fear" about being a "defined" self. Arthur Janov says to "do the opposite of what is comfortable". Then, the feelings under the maladaptive pattern will come out and you can see them.
I made a vow to act with integrity(honor my feelings)
It is SO scary. I am sitting here, with a stomach ache.
To see myself going out in to life, being strong in who I am, seems like I will have an army against me, arrows flying everywhere.. It seems so hostile, anger everywhere(lol)and I will have to be strong to back it down.
I just am too tired of being the way I am. It is like an overweight person who just cannot stand being overweight, any more. I just can't stand being servile any more. I want to have an identity. Ami
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This is all so encouraging! Without each other to prop ourselves we WOULD sink. I am starting to understand that my mom is like a cancer. I think I have conquered how she controls and manipulates me and then I realize she is doing it again through a back door. I have been had! It is almost like I am constantly putting out her emotional fires only for another one to start up. The newest one is having me coming and going over my d with autism. Daycare this. Therapy that. Me running.
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I got a really big lesson with anger and my friend.
I can BE angry,but chose how I express it. There does not have to be a direct pipeline between an emotion and it's expression. I can pull back and plan how I will express strong emotion.
This is a different paradigm.
I can have all the strong feelings, but *I* can control their expression. Part of me wanted to "blast" my friend . However, I got some wisdom, somewhere, that "told" me,don't bulldoze with your anger.Your friend is precious. Don't hurt him. Express yourself and don't hurt him at the same time. It CAN be done. Words are powerful. I can express my truth, but not with wounding blows. My M never knew this ,of course. When she gets angry, ALL will come out.
The expression of my anger can be controlled by me. My feelings do not control me. *I* control them. This is totally new. I have been so afraid of my feelings, so,so afraid. I thought they had nuclear bomb power.
They don't and my thoughts don't either.
I am separating the different parts of myself and starting to get comfortable with myself, not as "bad",but as many sided.
Some sides are totally childish. They want childish needs. It is OK, I guess, for them to BE there. but their expression is what needs to be controlled by "me", NOT the needs.
Am I right on this thinking? Ami
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Good points Am. It is so easy for anger to erupt. For my mom she does not hear me when speak normally but when I explode she hears that I am crazy! I do not know how to NOT blow up after all these years!
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Dear Kelly, Anger is SUPER hard to navigate for children of N's. I have been so afraid of my own anger. Now, is the first time I am starting to listen to it and try to honor it, as a valid part of myself.
With our anger, comes the "power" to protect ourselves and honor our needs,but it is so scary to navigate, especially, at first.I have many of the cultural stereotypes that anger is not "nice" for females--bleh! Love Ami
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Kel, do you think your mother is afraid of you?
xo
Hops
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I think the N's ARE afraid of us, especially, if we see the truth. The truth is to the N what the cross is to Dracula(IMO) Ami
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I think the N's ARE afraid of us, especially, if we see the truth. The truth is to the N what the cross is to Dracula(IMO) Ami
((((( Ami )))))
Yes! So true, for Dark does not like Light!
Love, Leah
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Ami - how wonderful!! You're beginning to claim your "I" - the chooser, the decider of who and what you are!
It starts to get easier now. Not that there won't be more tough things to re-feel, or get through... but it does get easier. And the stomach ache will start to go away, as you learn by experience, that you don't have to fear the same "punishment" from others, that you received from your "mother".
Hops might be on to something about your mom being afraid of you. I noticed in my work today, that my mother feared me remembering the truth and having my feelings back... I think, because she wouldn't be able to weasel out of being responsible; would lose her false image of herself and because I would refuse or not be able to parent her, in the face of my own needs for a real mom.
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Thank you, Amber. Ami
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There is real grief when you had to cast yourself aside. It IS a death ,in many ways, just as you have grief for an actual death.
When you throw yourself overboard , there IS a grief for what you lost,your trust and connection with your own being, your own psyche. Of course, you would be sad. It was a horrible thing to be forced to do, so your body has the grief attached to the loss of yourself.
Ami
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I don't necessarily think N are afraid of us. I DO think they are still afraid of their parents and take out on us their unconscious hatred which they could never do towards the cruel parent. Instead they chose someone more helpless to act this out on, very often their helpless children. Eventhough, they were victims initially, they have the freedom of choice to change this behavior and IMO I hold them accountable now and then........James
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I think my mom does not know what she is going to get with me so she is apprehensive. I really am unpredictable-some things trigger me and the rage boils over.
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I feel better,today, a little more "present", a little more centered. I have decided that I must explore "inner space" before anything outside . The outside will mirror the inside.
I will replay my unconscious needs,on the outside situations if I don't face them and I am ready to.
I am reading Jean Jenson's book, Reclaiming your Life". It is amazing HOW much we replay the unconscious . It is uncanny .
I am commited to being aware of myself. Replaying the unconscious feels like it IS a present issue . If both partners, in a relationship could become aware of their own patterns, the relationship would become closer .
The patterns are there, anyway.
You can either be aware of them or push them away and they will replay, forever.
Can anyone relate to this? Ami