Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Gaining Strength on May 18, 2008, 09:41:17 AM
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It's time to plumb the depths of shame yet again. It's true that I have made great progress but it is also true that I have still a long way to go. I knew that I had made progress and yet I knew that it was not enough, that I was not free, that I was still bound and I was feeling shamed about getting acknowledgement here about progress. I have been feeling inauthentic, afraid you all would turn away when you realized I was still bound up. It is that unbearable fear of abandonment that has plagued me lifelong.
I need this place and I need the encouragement that I have received here. I am so afraid of being abandoned and that has nothing to do with my experience here but from my experiences beginnning in early childhood. I am a child now. I think that is unavoidable in this healing process. I have found in 3-D life that when I present my vulnerable self to "healing" people that I am yet again shamed and rejected. I am understanding this process - though I doubt many of you would understand or buy it. I think the shame I have carried through life is so enormous that when "healers" bump into it they pour it back on me rather than help me out of it as a sort of self protective action. For some reason here that does not seem to happen.
Now I am going to go a little deeper into the shameand I do hope that some here will take this journey with me and hold me up. It is truly a frightening step. I am afraid - afraid of what I will find and afraid that I will get so far in that I cannot come back out. I am afraid of being abandoned on the way. Someone said to me recently that another person's abuse was so much greater than mine - but how could they know that. I cannot allow myself to belittle my own wounding and call it insignificant. To have a life paralyzed is about as crippled as possible. For me there could be no greater loss and to have to climb out of the paralysis all on my own with no help in 3D life is wretched. Perhaps a great fear is having my wounds and my pain belittled here as they have been throughout my life in 3D.
I know that my father set about to belittle me and keep me as a child and I have wondered since my husband died why he has not reached out to help me in any way. Neither my father nor my mother would have survived had their parents not left them huge amounts of money. My father set me up to be childish and wanted for me to never grow up and when I did he has continued to try to squash me. That mindset was established in my family so that my brothers continued it as well. Now I must break it but it is very, very frightening. I would think that being stuck in squalor was more frightening. I don't know why summoning the determination and strength is so frightening.
I remember many years ago a male therapist asked me what difference it made if I did something to alienate my father. I knew in that instant that he could never help me and I felt in that instant the very same belittlement that I had experienced with my father. I was bound up with my father because I saw him as all powerful. He graduated from top prep schools and an ivy league college, he was wealthy with a large circle of friends, he was strong and held important positions in the community, sitting on bank boards and on city council. I could not have seen that in truth he was weak nor that he not only did not love me but that he despised me as he despised himself. I longed to be just like him.
I could not see that he despised women and that I would try to squash many of my feminine qualities to please him. I could not see that he had a disease - OCD and that he chose to do things the hardest way possible as a badge of honor when inrealilty it was a recipe for complete disaster. I could not see that he constantly set me up to fail by demanding results without giving me the necessary resources. This is the trap that I have not yet broken free from. This is the trap that is very, very difficult to describe even to this group that understands more than any other set of people I have encountered. First of all there is often resentment around money - I grew up being resented because I had money and yet it was only my father who had money. I didn't and I didn't have access to his money. The one thing I could be assured was that if I expressed a desire for something then I would not get it. My father believed and even stated that "you get what you deserved." What he meant by this is that you have to sit and wait and if you deserve it it will befall you. He completely set me up to be a passive recipient who was taught that it was wrong to set a goal and go after it. I could write a book on this one aspect of my psyche. I probably should. You can imagine how I became resentful of others who received the things or opportunities that I longed for. The good stuff never befell me. Now - now in middle age - I must teach myself how to set a goal and go after it. Why is that so frightening? Because my father used to set me up. He would say you must go and accomplish this and then give me only half the material I needed with no resources to get the rest and in fact if I attempted to get the rest and he found out he would punish or humiliate me.
These are the dynamics that I am working with:
1) The person who should have loved me, the life-giver - pulling the rug out from underneath me, sabotaging me
2) The life-giver demanding that I always do my best like his friends children but then not giving me the necessary resources
(I have no doubt that this is why I have always identified with the underclass. This is exactly what happens to the underclass)
3) The person who gave me life became enraged if I succeeded.
4) The person who gave me life demanded that I be passive and raged if I cried or complained that the good stuff went to others and not me. (This one is the most debilitating - This one carries the most emotional charge, the most shame.) This is it - if I tried to lift myself up out of the darkness that was when I got the most humiliation and the most rejection. This is where I am stuck right now, trying to life myself out of the darkness and feeling kicked back down. That kicked back down is old stuff. I pray that I can get some clearer perspective on this so that I can move past this.
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Dear GS
Deep pain takes time.You were very courageous to write about these gut wrenching ,painful issues. It is a step to breaking the shame. Shame exists in darkness. Light is a step to dispel it.
*I* have been guilty of "comparing abuse". I will never do it again, ever. It is a defense mechanism to minimize my own abuse. I have done it all my life, beginning with "people who live in nice houses" could not be abused. I continued it until, now.
All abuse wounds and kills. It is not a "comparable " thing.It is like "Would you rather die by sword or fire?It is stupid. If *I* did it to you, I am sorry ,to the core, GS.
Your shame is NOT yours. We take the shame on, *I* did. However,it is so clear to me, that it is not "yours". Alice Miller would help with this. When you can put back on your parents what was theirs, your head gets clearerer. It was theirs. It was.
Finding a "healing partner" is a "gift". It is one of those gifts that just comes to you. 99% of the people would not be able to do this. Their own pain would push you back. Their own 'unhealed" wounds rise up and push you away.
It was NOT your fault for looking for help. It was your survival instinst, GS.
I know this produces shame ,too, of course.
I am here for you, always,to the best of my ability. We are on the same path. What other path is there, GS, no matter HOW long it takes. If s/one else does not like it-----F### them. Ami
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I don't like my new name "Got Strength". I need to change it to something that reflects where i am. I do have some strength but that is not where my focus needs to be - I am trying to think of something more like softness or compassion or comfort. That is where I am going.
For the first time in my life I am seeing that I can move out of squalor and into comfort. I can move into the life and lifestyle that I have longed for and felt shut out of. I see so well that I have shut myself out of so much because I have been trapped by these wounds and though I did not put myself in them, yet I am the only one who can get myself out of them. I long to be loved and to feel love. i long to have pretty clothes and a pretty house and to entertain and have friends. I long to believe in myself and to be able to generate the necessary income to have the financial resource to accomplish the things that please me and give me renewed life.
I know I have identified the major blockages above. i know that this is the most significant step yet and that there will be clean up after this but that this will blow the logjam out of the water so that the restoration process will begin at long, long last. At long last but in time to help me be a better mother.
PS well "shame slayer" is not exactly soft but it is reflective of where i am and it feels good. I will morph into something softer when I emerge from the vortex. I need my strength for this battle and can revert and emphasize the more feminine qualities when I have emerged victorious. (My son and I have been reading King Arthur. I think it has entered my own being.)
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As I face that it was my M who was the "wrong" one, I feel more "sane". We protect them, subconsciously, and TAKE the blame on ourselves. It is just what the child does.
We will never be able to heal until we put on them what WAS theirs(IME)
I am feeling better,now. My mind feels more sane.
I want my mind ,back, so badly ,as I know you do, GS.
A new name could be Growing Strong. I feel like *I* am growing strong, as I accept truth. Remember Papillion. I PMed him and asked him to come back. He has gone to the depths in life and in his own sould and has a wisdom, strength and tenderness b/c of it. That is my goal. Love Ami
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It is a defense mechanism to minimize my own abuse. That is powerful Ami. Thank you for this. It makes perfect sense to me and I can carry this forward in the future so that when I feel minimized again I will remember that what I am receiving is very likely a defense mechanism. I so appreciate the gift of your acknowledgement and the profound insight that you have in identifying it.
Finding a "healing partner" is a "gift". It is one of those gifts that just comes to you. 99% of the people would not be able to do this. Their own pain would push you back. Their own 'unhealed" wounds rise up and push you away.
This really gets me. It punches all my buttons because of the countless times I have sought help and compassion and understanding and healing only to have my own shame be turned around on me. To read these words is such a great release. It is much like the first time I read about narcissism. To read these words cuts open the sarcophogus that I have been entombed in. So many times I have turned to people who claimed themselves to be healers or pastoral or therapists and have my own shame turned in on me. My orignial wounds became embalmed and made permanent and inaccessible because of the dozens of people who shamed me for my own pain and own wounds. This pain is indescribable. This pain is as strong if not stronger than the original wounds because it fit what my father did so perfectly. It confirmed to me that I deserved nothing that I deserved only the dregs, that i deserved to be banished to the margins of life always looking in and never invited. This is my great pain. I must go in here mustn't I?
We are on the same path. What other path is there, GS, no matter HOW long it takes. If s/one else does not like it-----F### them.
I am ready to enter into the F### 'em land. I am enraged though i do not want to be the raging bull that I have been at times in my life. I am enraged but I must find the right way to channel that rage. I will not be belittled again. I am angry but I am also compassionate and filled with a loving heart. I will not be trampled again. I will dig down and find my roots and feel the profound love that is generating and co-creating and bountiful and I will turn my back on the darkness and shame and lack of compassion that 99% of the world offers up in their own defensiveness. I will not be shamed anymore. I need help to get there but I am clearly on my way. Thanks to you Ami and all the others who have been willing to walk with me. I was ashamed that I have discovered the need for much more work but I have thrown that off today and am willing to go the depths.
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Dear GS
F##k them "land" is NOT harsh, just strong. Love Ami
(((((((((GS)))))
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I am experiencing something very difficult to describe - a surge of power mixed with the same old paralysis and shame. I am believing that the power will break the walls of shame - destroy them, send them crashing to the ground.
I have begun to see the images of who "I" really am. I have had many, many glimpses throughout my life but did not know that was what I was seeing. I thought what i saw was just wishful thinking and grandiose ideas but they were not, they were reflections of the true me that never, never died and now I know I can recoup them and live into them.
As I am writing I am seeing that I can begin to do things for that little precious child for whom things were never done. Suddenly I am seeing that that is where my power is going to come from. Does that make any sense? I can get up and clean for that precious child who was so deeply shamed. i can borrow money from my wretched father to restore the non-functional bathroom and get grass planted where only weeds grow and clean up my house so that once again we can invite people over and be humans again.
I may call today. God give me the strength and courage to move into the healing and open my heart to experience the true love. Give me the strength and courage to confront my greatest fears and shame and trust You to carry me unharmed through the fires.
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NOT ENOUGH
Not enough it just how I feel when i start to tackle a task. Not enough. I do not do enough. I do not have enough. I do not accomplish enough.
That is one of the lies of this shame - not enough.
I am going to try to go into these feelings - not enough - until I become enough and have enough and do enough. It is shaming to not be enough, to not have enough, to not accomplish enough.
So I am learning that I will move into a space where I can set goals and "actively" persue them not waiting for manna to fall passively into my lap. (This brings up a whole other ball of wax about "the haves" v. "the have nots" and the philosophy that makes "the haves" feel so superior to the "have nots". I have always believed (don't know why) that we must help each other out. No man is an island. and yet in our culture we like to claim that the best and the brightest got there on their own and owe nothing to noone. I don't buy it. The best are up there pulling others up along with them. That's the best. And that is where I plan to be - working my way to the top and pulling as many along as I can.)
I am gonig to move into a place where I am enough. When I feel that way I will know that I have arrived.
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Gs........"my therapist asked me what difference it would make if I did something to alienate my father" You have been wise and true to yourself to recognize what this man did to you, under the guise of a "therapist". He was lying to himself, and then to you, and you sensed the truth. You had to be very strong to reject this and I think you still have that same strength/insight to go forward now. Your internal sensors were right. It is a very painful journey back, but you can do it. You seem to be gathering strength and choosing to leave denial behind. This is a major step! Listen to your feelings, when you can find them, and learn to trust what they are telling you even though the truth may feel horrible. What you fear is abt your dad, parents, not you.......Love, James
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You ARE enough, Shame Slayer. What is going on here is simply UNCHARTED TERRITORY. Simply? Well, it won't be simple or easy. But it is a new land, a new world. With everything which that implies. You will find that you are enough, have enough, do enough.
I want to say up front, that I am at a messy time in my journey. But I am with you on this. There are enough commonalities here that I think my support will be of use to you. I mostly want to listen and take it in. Because of the commonalities, I think I will learn important things at the same time as you. I think, though, that "saying" will be less useful than hearing.
I will do my best, Shame Slayer. Please keep going no matter what.
I think the shame that was planted in you is like an illusion. A trick. Because most of it was never yours. It was bestowed or off-loaded.
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Shame Slayer,
I wanted to add my support and most importantly let you know you will never be left, abandonded, you are loved and valued.
You are in need and we are here.
Thier is a lot of history, I hear your pain. ((comfort to you)) seasons
I think the shame that was planted in you is like an illusion. A trick. Because most of it was never yours. It was bestowed or off-loaded.
Juno.........I resonate with your thoughts.
Your in my heart also. seasons
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Dear SS
I know you are at a point of mind blowing pain. I hear the pain, fear,uncertainty and despair. We have been together ,on the board, for a long time, and you are "different" now, more in touch with the deepest layers of pain.
To me, you are at a hopeful place, even though it may seem the opposite(hopeless)
I was at the place you are,I think, when I came on the board. I HAD to heal. I had the last gasp of a drowning man before I gave up and went under.I have been criticized, very much, as you know,but you know what? I don't care. I didn't then and I don't now.
We have been through the worst with our parents. What we experience now is only "bad" be/c we have the template of abuse in our heads.
We CAN change the template. I am doing that . I think you can hear and see that ,SS.I think you have HOPE,now. I think you have an inkling that you can change and be whole. I think you have turned the corner frim despair to hope,in the deepest corners of your mind.
I think you know ,down deep,that this time, the door to health will open and you can walk through. I think you are at a very good place, even though it feels very,very bad. That is how I see it. Push aside what does not fit,SS.
I am on the journey beside you.Truth will never hurt as much as lies. I faced one of the worst truths there is and I am stronger and more whole. My life makes sense ,in a new way. I see the reasons for my life ,in a new way.
I am getting compassion for myself. I endured a lot to still be sitting here, typing this to you.
When it is all said and done, we will have s/thing precious to offer others b/c they will "know" we have been to hell and back and are "safe". I feel that way with James b/c he HAS been to hell and back. It is a trip few take and few survive intact enough to help another.
I have hope, SS ,and will share all that I have with you. Love Ami
(((((((SS))))))))
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I have always believed (don't know why) that we must help each other out. No man is an island. and yet in our culture we like to claim that the best and the brightest got there on their own and owe nothing to noone. I don't buy it. The best are up there pulling others up along with them. That's the best.
Yes, you have got this exactly right. Those who claim otherwise are liars. Illusions again.
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Yesterday when I started this thread I was like a steam roller gathering steam and the CRASH the board went down. When it came back on hours later I had a very strange reaction. I had a hard time coming to this thread again and reading responses or posting. It was as if the emotion yesterday was so strong and then SNAP the conduit was broken.
I definitely have a tremendous fear about pouring out my feelings, about how they will be received and about expectations. I am thankful beyond words for the support I am receiving. I have a busy day with my little one as school winds down and that makes it difficult to get back on track here but I am determined to find a way to continue plumbing the depths.
On a side note after the site went down I was actually able to get a lot of work done. I so want to crash this veil that has held me imprisoned for too long. Last night I had a powerful dream in which my late husband had "paved over" something that I loved. Two things about it were that he never asked me = just went ahead and acted and what he did merely ruined what I loved and would never have worked functionally - it was totally ill conceived. This was so powerfully reminiscent of what life could be like with him. So much of my needs and desires just paved over. One of Leah's threads awakened this in me. I realize I have work to do on this as well but I suspect that once I heal the childhood issues the marriage stuff will fall away. It was all built on the childhood house of cards anyway.
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Thanks Juno. It is a powerful lie that can crush people, especially ones who have been so damaged early in life.
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This is where I am stuck right now, trying to life myself out of the darkness and feeling kicked back down. That kicked back down is old stuff. I pray that I can get some clearer perspective on this so that I can move past this.
Also, I wanted to say that I think you do see things very clearly. Perhaps what is hard to deal with is that this even exists. It was so wrong and yet, there it is.
And I am operating under the same main idea as you--that when the childhood stuff is healed from, then the other stuff will be relatively easy. I do get discouraged. Sometimes it seems hopeless. Sometimes I don't want to deal with it. But then I get that feeling inside. Restless, stopped up, and when I've had enough of THAT, then it is time to dig into something else. This is very, very hard work isn't it? I don't know very many other people in real life who would even consider doing things this way.
While you are busy today, things will probably be percolating in the back of your mind. Way in the back probably! Sometimes that's what dreams are for. There are times when I will dream every night about things that the back of my mind has been working on. There are times when the dreams are frustrating because when I wake up I will realize that I handled the problem in the dream the same dumb way I handle things awake. But I never used to even realize that before. At least the pathway is open. Dreamtime is very useful for problem solving or at least practice in recognizing problems.
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Shame Slayer.......Over the last 14 months or so i have had 4-5 dreams that were very powerful. These were strong and clear and I knew exactly what they were telling me. Each one of these, I recognize now, were at the beginning of a new "period" in my life and their content eventually was worked out in my consciousness and did come true. Then another one would come, in the same way, and the same thing happened with them. I pay attention to dreams now, especially powerful ones. I find it amazing how in a dream I can see with clarity where I need to go and without "thinking", instinctively I follow, like it was the most natural thing in the world and it is because it is me guiding me.......Love, James
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SS:
The golden nugget for me... the absolute center of the shame for me:
is the reality that I wasn't important enough TO my parents for them to BE decent parents for me...
to love me for who I am without making me an extension or surrogate for my mother's frustrated dreams...
to love me for how I am like my father - in talents and sociability (it's NOT a sin to like people, mom...and it's not dangerous, either)
to love me and acknowledge that I was emotionally sensitive; vulnerable to a high degree to people's teasing and slights...
... especially when it came from my parents.
I am still dealing with feeling shame about this vulnerable side of my self, too. Shame that assigns fault, blame & responsibility for my parents deficits in parenting - that assigns the shame/blame to me. I am free-er than I was... I am able to see this being repeated as an unconscious script with the same roles in my current life. Yes, it continues UNTIL you change things...
YES, trying to change myself "pokes" a stick in the eye of these old beliefs, emotions and behaviors. The old self... the unconscious side of the self... and then the resistance is there in a flash: bring all the old belittling (this time self-belittling) habits right along with it. Because that's what it knows worked to defend me; to keep me safe; to hold the real "me" in waiting for some magical place & time where my real parents would "claim" me. (I sobbed uncontrollably at the end of the movie, Pan's Labryinth, when the girl who dies finds her "rightful place" with her mother & father...)
For me, SS, the way OUT of this is in parenting my self - validating my emotional, vulnerable self; recognizing my need for safety & acceptance FROM even my SELF... to not continue the abusive, neglectful, abandoning behaviors that I internalized & mimicked; behaviors I learned from my parents - that stuck to me like a BURR that I could never find; could never remove and hurt, itched and irritated me.
The removal process involves reliving that whole year... all those emotions... (and oddly, life events are recurring too)... and doing things very, very differently. Treating my self differently. Behaving differently. Allowing the vulnerability. Not always being the first to volunteer to sacrifice my SELF completely, just to make everything "all right"...
Does this help point out the path to the way out for you or is this too much "me"? My own trip?
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((((((((())))))))) I am with you, alongside you in this, dear SS. I hear your heart and am willing to continue hearing.
Especially.... often I still find that whatever I accomplish feels like not "enough". Then I know it's time to refocus my eyes, because that old standard didn't fit then and it sure doesn't apply now.
Also, we recently had a guest in our home who is quite well-to-do and... I did great through the visit, but in the aftermath was a mini shame dump, full of "should haves". Still rebuking those to smithereens.
And I've got to say that I can really relate to all that Amber's shared in her last post.... especially this:
to love me for who I am without making me an extension or surrogate for my mother's frustrated dreams...
to love me for how I am like my father - in talents and sociability (it's NOT a sin to like people, mom...and it's not dangerous, either)to love me and acknowledge that I was emotionally sensitive; vulnerable to a high degree to people's teasing and slights...
GS, you deserve to have ups and downs... everyone does. My own can get pretty messy, still... but it also gets easier and smoother to remember that I will come out the other side of that tunnel. And so will you. There is no way you'll get stuck there... I just know it.
Love to you,
Carolyn
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SS:
Reading your thread this morning, got me thinking about double binds... the damned if you do, damned if you don't; no-win situations. The way you describe your father setting impossible goals - then denying the resources & support to accomplish them - then putting you down for not being superhuman... all sounds like double-bind, to me.
I ran across a website (and am ignoring it's focus on homosexuality). Here's a point that applies:
Traumatic malattunement--the inevitable consequence of the family communications style of the Double Bind--creates shame, and shame detaches the person from himself.
What first got my attention about this writing, was that the author also said, of therapy:
Several recent neurobiological studies have opened a window into this process of reconnecting the person back to himself. These findings suggest that the traditional, psychodynamic view of the division of the mind into unconscious-conscious, unrepressed-repressed, affective-cognitive is anatomically reflected by right-brain vs. left-brain activity. In reparative therapy, these two separate parts of the "severed self" are therapeutically united through what we call the Intensive Body Work of Affect-Focused Therapy.
Here's the website: http://www.narth.com/docs/dblloop.html
I don't know enough about this style of therapy to know if it might be useful; but I took note of "body work" since I'm finding that body awareness is a big way I can heal and re-integrate my R&L brain consciousness... it's interesting...
The critical connection/association I made between my experience, what you're currently going through and this guy's statement is that shame detaches us from our Selves.
It's as if SHAME blots out any other thoughts, feelings or possibilities like the black cloud that preceeded the King of the Ringwraiths in Lord of the Rings... the smoky pall hanging over Mordor. It's as if we become all shame... and then our defenses kick in. Giving up, raging back through acting out, accepting the greyness of depression as preferable to the pain of shame... and in the process of defending ourselves: we lose our SELF. We lose our selves, because we're trying to survive (as children) the only way we know or can imagine how.
There is a big difference between surviving - because it's those old self-defense habits we cling to unconsciously, which become an additional problem to solve - and THRIVING... replacing the old with something new, different; trying something and enjoying the results, even if it's slow, scary, imperfect, until we've pushed out the old habit with a new one...
The more gradual this is; the less "forced"... the better, I'm finding.
ps - which version of King Arthur are you reading? I know most of these; painted quite a few images: Merlin, the Lady of the Lake, etc.
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Thinking of you, SS. I feel you have opened a new door to healing,one that will lead to your authentic self.You are such a beautiful person, but,sometimes, it doesn't do much good when others tell us if we keep telling ourselves, otherwise.
However,until you CAN tell yourself, SS, I will tell you! Love Ami
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SS: I once heard an analogy. If you are a cucumber and someone puts you in a jar of dill juice eventually you will become a pickle. Just try to wash the dill juice off a pickle and make it into a cucumber again. Is it impossible? I think so. So how does it fit? When we were born we were cukes. Fresh cukes from the garden. But years and years of sitting in pickle juice (shame, disapproval, toxic emotions, unkind words, double binds, etc.....) we became pickles. So now our goals is to be a cuke again...but we can't. So now our goal is to be a part of a delicious chicken salad or tuna salad......we have to become better. We cannot go back.
So here we are.....adults. We are all nice people. You and I were raised by wealthy parents who cared for their status and their lives better than for ours. We were never loved in the way a child should be loved and we are not valued as adults. We are working through all this crap. Trying to learn and grow and undo.
SS(GS) You are a wonderful woman. You are making great strides. You are walking out your life with determination. YOU can do it. We are here for you to lift you up when you are down and to offer support to you during your journey....
(((((((((SS))))))))))))))))))))
Love, Kelly
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(((((((((((SS)))))))))))))))))
I was wondering...just before this thread, you were having an extended spurt of accomplishment, coping, daily determination, attacking closets, focusing and REfocusing on your waking tasks...and doing it so very well. You really were doing things differently. Making real progress on the house (foot by foot).
What I am wondering is if this new big wave of fear and shame might be a subconscious reaction to your recent bout of competence and new, stronger coping? Your experiences of moments of real success?
I know at times I have lapsed back into panic and despair just after I had begun to change and become stronger. Just after accomplishment, it was like my unconscious would sabotage me. And bam, I'd be back at the bottom of the well again.
If none of that rings a bell, please compost...
lots of love and support to you, dear,
Hops
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I have had a very hard time coming back to this thread. I am not surprised. I know that there is a dark something buried and this thread is meant to unearth it. It ils deep dark pain.
For the past two days I have stayed with the phrase "not enough" trying to get at it. I went to sleep last night concentrating on the phrase and much of the "usual" stuff came up. I would bounce from my mother to my father and back but finally this morning it came up. (now I am out of time until later) The phrase that came up with great emotional weight is "not GOOD enough" There it is and there is so much more to it. I must stay with "not GOOD enough". Once I got this phrase I had this image of my father standing above me kicking me and my mother laughing. They have kicked me when I was down and loved it.
There is more here. I will dig to find it.
Juno - you wrote Sometimes it seems hopeless. Sometimes I don't want to deal with it. Every word of that post rings true to me. It is very hard (surprisingly hard) for me to face any of this and even more so to ask for help. the emotional pain is really percolating.
James - thank you for that guidance. It is helpful to hear about your experiences and see how it may apply to me.
Phoenix Rising -
Does this help point out the path to the way out for you or is this too much "me"? My own trip? You are 100% on target. This is just the help. So helpful. Must persevere.
Hops - I think some of what you suggest may be the case but I also think that most of it is that the progress I have made was a necessary forestep to the process i now find myself in. I had to make progress and gain strength and confidence in order to do the yeoman stretch of the hard work. I am now strong enough and confident enough and healed enough to begin the real work. I have gathered enough steam to move into the active, out of the passive, an push forward to claim my healing and overrcome the shame giver who stands with his foot on my head, accompanied and buoyed by my mother as a shadow puppet. I am now strong enough to venture on the journey that will allow me to slay the shame without shaming the shame givers. I don't need to strut or to celebrate my victory in that NFL way but more like a stately olympic medalist who stands with dignity on the medal block. That is how I will stand when I have defeated the shame givers and the shame.
PR - ast this and later more - the double binds is precisely what I have known that I have lived under for years. I have posted about it a number of times but never have I seen the correlation of double bind with shame and that is very powerful for me. Understanding, having affirmed my experience and pain and then undoing are all such integral parts to the healing process. I am doing and redoing the process for different parts and parcels of the wounding. I cannot do it alone. I have been trying to do it alone for years and years. Ami made it clear how much others can help. I am indescribably endebted to all for your help as I push forward to face these demons, these dragons, to face them and slay them.
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SS, All of my life I've had that "not good enough" and "it's never enough" ringing in my ears.
A mundane analogy... dusting with a dry cloth wasn't enough for me, but I had to wash the furniture with Murphy's oil soap. And no matter how clean I'd get the stuff, it'd just get dusty again, in no time. Anything I could do wasn't enough/ wasn't good enough.
Not good enough for what, though?
Not good enough to be happy? To be loved? To be content?
And what did I have to deny in order to come to that conclusion?
That I am a human being, not omnipotent, chock-full of foibles and frailties?
Now this has been the key to my solutions... mine and not necessarily yours....
Recently I read this little tidbit: Self-pity is pride whining.
Following that enlightenment came a whole other series of questions to ask myself... and I'm still asking.
The main one is - am I going to devote my life to defining myself and deciding who I am? Or am I going to rely on my Creator/Redeemer's definition of my identity, regardless of how I feel?
That really is it, in a nutshell. Who do I think I am? And does who I think I am really mean a hoot? Was I left hanging here to form myself or is the Potter still at the wheel? Having reviewed a lifetime of my own efforts, it's not so difficult for me to resign myself to His definition. And in acceptance, lieth peace.
Must persevere... yes. Still alongside you here... and praying, too.
With love,
Carolyn
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((((((((((((((((SS)))))))))))))
You sound so different here I didn't even recognize you. I think you are definitely having a breakthrough.
I did want to comment on one thing you said - that someone had said your abuse was not as 'bad' as theirs. Abuse is abuse. I don't think you can quantify or qualify it. What matters is it took away what should have been YOU.
You are doing great.
Lots of love,
Beth
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Certain Hope - your description of "not good enough" is exactly what I experience - about the mundane, about the big, about the petty and the significant - about it ALL!!! You've got it.
I do know that I am NOT defined that way by God. I do want to see myself though God's eyes. That is my goal. A book that I love reminds its readers to focus on God's ability and not my ability and very often when I think about that I feel an immediate release of tension through my shoulders. I am moving towards that but there is a mountain that I must cross to get there.
Ami - thanks so much. it is so helpful to hear over and over and over again because i did not hear it as a child when it would have become a part of my bedrock self. I will remember to drill it into my little one. but I will receive what you have to give and will a heartfelt thanks.
Gratitude - that is so helpful to hear. I cannot see it. i can only see that I have made progress but that progress feels like drips from a faucet where a tsunami is needed. I used this analogy with my T today and he said that was too passive an analogy and offered a different one that drew on an "active" process. That whole issue of passive v. active is vital for me because I realize that my father forced me into accepting a passive role and that has been very, very detrimental in my life. Now I am transitioning into an active role. Difficult that's why I am needing and thankful for receiving help from you and the others here on the board.
Overcomer - that is a very interesting analogy. Sort of like making lemonade out of lemons, making something good out of what you have. "all things come to good ...."
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"All good things come to those who go looking for them"
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Dear Shame Slayer......I have been thinking a lot about you, as you have been reaching out from your pain. I know what a beautiful sweet child you were because I see it in you now. Yes....... I do see this in spite of the shame that you are feeling and I know how bad this hurts because like you I have been where you are. If you can, use the love that I am sending to feel comfort and give you strength. You will be Ok...... you will be able will cast off this blanket of shame and find the beauty of who you really are. I see it now, and will wait patiently for you to find your way........Love, James
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Dear SS
Just thinking of you and sending thoughts of love and comfort to you. Love Ami
((((((((SS))))))))
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((SS)) I came upon this today, thought of you and your work, then thought of all of us.
We can help eachother heal and grow towards inner peace and love.
((Together))
Prayer of Thanks for Friends
I want to thank you, Gracious Lord,
for the good friends you give me;
they are for me a priceless bounty.
Thanks to them, friendship is neither an abstraction,
nor a distant, almost impossible, dream.
I owe to your providence, Lord,
the possibility of counting on
the constant help of friends.
Between me and them you have formed a solid bridge,
which can withstand all threats of destruction.
The happiness with which you have blessed us
enables us to enrich one another.
Lord, there was something astonishing,
almost mysterious,
in the way I met my friends;
it was always outside the expected pattern.
But you alone know the reasons
that drew us closer together.
This surprise and joy are refreshing,
and I experience them anew
at every step of my life.
Not all proved to be steadfast friends,
but I have to thank you
for the faithful ones.
I promise to do everything in my power
to deserve this precious gift
that you have reserved for me.
I ask you, Gracious Lord, to keep them safe in your hands,
for they are yours above all.
Amen.
seasons
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That is a wonderful poem, Seasons. The "mysterious" part about friends coming in to your life is true, for me What gifts friend can be. . It has to be God. It could not happen, otherwise.
It is wonderful when God uses us in s/one else's life, too. Either way,it is what makes life beautiful. Love Ami
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Thinking of you, SS.
Your reaching out is a wonderful step to combat shame. I know you were shamed for "needing" anything from others. Anything you can do to combat old shaming messages will show you they are not true.
You are embraced and loved when you reach out.
I am sending thoughts of peace your way. Love Ami
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James your words are like a torch to an iceburg. I am using them to melt the shame frozen to my memories. What a surprise to read them and such a surprise as to how words can melt the darkness away. I could not respond when I first read them. It took some time to process the experience. My words cannot convey the depths of my appreciation.
Ami, you wrote, "I know you were shamed for "needing" anything from others." How did you know. I have found myself retreating from this verythread since I posted it. I will come on line and read others but have great difficulty coming here. And you have described precisely why this has been so difficult for me. I had no idea how deep the depths of this shame was. I don't think I yet know. I am ashamed at asking for help and then I retreat because I feel unworthy and because I expect to be shamed for asking and needing and not receiving in the "proper" way. All of these expectations are frozen in the memories of past experience. Thank you for helping me and not abandoning me in this struggle.
Seasons - That is such a beautiful prayer. It reminds me of a song we used to sing at camp chapel based on the bible verses - no man is an island, no man stands alone. I remember singing that as a 10, 11 and 12 years old and feeling so very, very alone. It ia astonishing to me how alone I feel and how frightening it is for me to ask for help even here, from cyber friends. So much damage to be undone. So much compassion here - thanks.
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Dear SS,
Just a note to let you know that I'm still remembering you in my prayers... for direction and guidance, and for liberation from those old emotional and mental ruts, as the Lord Jesus stands up in your boat and speaks to the howling storm, "Peace, be still!!"
And I don't think He whispered it, either.
I remember hearing years ago that a more literal translation of those words would be: "Shut up now!!!"
Often, that's just exactly what the storms of my own thought processes and emotions need to hear.
And I'm so thankful that our shame doesn't make Him cringe or turn away.
He took it willingly upon Himself and gives us, in return, a spotless white robe.
That takes my breath away... and lifts my thoughts out of the old grooves into a new level of certain hope... for you and me both.
With love,
Carolyn
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Bless you (((((( Seasons )))))
Thank you for sharing such a precious pearl.
Which is new to me, yet it speaks of my heart, with deep gratitude.
Love, Leah
((((((( Shame Slayer ))))))))
Please know that you are in my thoughts and prayers.
We never truly walk alone.
Love, Leah
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Dear SS,
I am grateful to you for asking for help.
You let me feel useful, you let us know our hearing makes a difference.
We honor each other with that vulnerability, and with our requests for help and support.
You got mine, hon.
lots of love to you,
Hops
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I got somewhere. I found a blockage. I felt paralyzed by the shame and stayed with it. I found my anger and rage towards my father and towards my mother. I have been aware of my feelings towards them but did not make the connection to this shame stuff.
In the past I have seen how the anger towards them became turned inwards and fueled my depression. That has kept me from seeing the relationship with the shame.
For much of my adult life I expressed rage and anger towards other triggers but the rage i felt was disproportionate to the triggering incident. I will have to process each of these differently because my anger towards my father is different from my anger towards my mother. My father did not allow any expression of anger nor expression of any negative emotions. I have long been aware of my anger towards him but what I have discovered today puts it all in a new perspective.
Now I have to figure out what to do next. I fully understand how my paralysis is parallel with my experience of dealing with my parents. This is a direct outcropping of each of their separate actions and attitude of sabotage towards me. I have internalized their sabotage and that is my paralysis. Now I must process this stuff. Not sure how but I'll do the same thing again until I can go no farther.
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Could be, you might find a connection between the incidents that triggered your rage disproportionately - and how your parents treated you. I saw patterns in how overwhelmed I was at work - how people took advantage of me - and how I was treated by my parents: I could express the anger and identify what made me angry (usually a boundary violation) when it happened with these other people. It took a bit of time to link those patterns up with my mom & dad. And I had to practice "no" - I didn't know I could say no to people; that it was allowed. This was a revelation.
Being prohibited from feeling, expressing anger as a child myself - I know that all my bouts of anger-meltdown were followed by shame-attacks...
One technique my T taught me that helped was "the anger room" - I was to put the other person in this room, in my mind - then it was no holds barred: I could be as angry as I wanted to be... in the anger room. It's great for when the risks involved in expressing your anger in reality are too great - it allows the feeling to BE - to peak - and to exhaust itself, diminishing it's power... and it helps to get to what is behind or below the anger, to get the anger itself out of the way.
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Dear Shame Slayer,
Today, after I had prayed and sat still for a while with my thoughts, I arose from my chair and stood in the middle of the room and proclaimed "they are NOT going to sabotage my life any longer" "enough is enough" -- then made a cup of tea! It was the best cuppa I've had in a long time!
You see, I realized as I saw clearly, that they; parents, siblings, and exh -- had sabotaged and then left me in a heap -- whilst they carried on with their life in a business as usual attitude.
Well, NOW is the time for Leah to arise and walk on -- the shackles of oppression were forged by their thoughts, words and actions -- and NOW I really do feel free -- because I know why.
I feel it a true privilege to walk with you, dear SS, as your shackles clang to the floor -- and you too walk free.
((((((( SS ))))))))
Love to you,
Leah
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Dear SS, I am seeing my M as she REALLY was ( and is). It hurts SO badly that my whole body and mind feel like childbirth. These feelings of not being loved etc are WHY we developed shame in the first place. It was the only "safe" thing we could do, think WE were bad, not them.
It was a survival mechanism ,like shock.
After Scott died, I think I could have died of a broken heart, if I had not gone in to shock. I think I am still in it. This is what we HAD to do as kids. Shame was a defense mechanism that protected us from the truth,it was they who were "bad" and dangerous.
That is what I am learning, now. Love Ami
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The demons not addressed slay the integrity of the self. Not having a way to negotiate conflict and fight in healthy ways sets the stage for below-the-belt-fighting. Refusal to know one's own anger results in expressing it sideways in manipulation or aggression. Denial of one's problems--not owning up and dealing with addictive needs create the most severe forms of dysfunction in families.
This comes from " Angries Out" . com
Not allowed to have my own needs. That's it!!! My needs overwhelmed my parents!!!!! Caused them to shut down!!!!! Taught that nothing was mine!!! I'm getting it. The wall is cracking!!! Having needs, having any needs was life threatening!!! need to stay a failure just like them even though they don't appear to be failures - I'm the shadow side and must be crushed. They must crush their shadow side - repress it rather than embrace it. Getting it. I am an extention of them. i am not my own being. I love the own being that I am and I love what gives me life. I have completely detached myself from it all - will reconnect when I sever these ties that bind. Angry agout it all.
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SS Having an Aha moment, huh?? You see? Even though we are going through all the emotions, our parents really have issues, too. But isn't it funny (or not funny?) that our parents do not acknowledge that it is their dysfunction that has made us this way? Isn't it weird that they label us as the ones with the problem and our problem is them? Isn't it sickening that they have totally destroyed us and yet live their lives in denial. Everyday labelling us poor kids.............oh I do not know. What can we say???
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This from the emofree.com website on shame:
[When unconscious phrases such as ](The truth is I’m NOT good enough, I really DON’T deserve more, I should be punished) are so powerful, they cancel out your momentary positive feelings or your temporary clear focus on what you want. While you are focusing on a beautiful house, the subtext is “Who am I kidding, I don’t deserve it and I’ll never get it!”
When you are ashamed, it means you think you are “no good” or feel “defective.” The reason so many physically or emotionally abused people feel ashamed is because their translation of their life’s circumstances is:
If my own mother spoke to me that way, I must be a lousy person.
If my own father hit me when he was drunk, I must have deserved it.
If my caretaker said I was “no good” he must have been right.
If they looked at me that way, there must be something wrong with me.
If the neighbors treated us that way, it must have been my fault.
If I got punished that often, I must be a bad person.
When I read this I thought they were speaking directly to me - having reach into my brain and pulled out my own thoughts and experiences.
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Shame Slayer........If a drunk father hits his child the child must assume he/she is bad Most children will believe this in order to deny the reality they live in. The real reality is the lack of love and cruelty they live in. To feel this is grief. Experiencing grief is what heals. Shame prevents us as children from being overwhelmed with grief but as adults we can experience it without life threatening consequences. Love for ourselves develops as we do this and see thru the lie of shame...........Love, James
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the set up:
See her do something poorly so we can ridicule her and belittle her - not to her face but in our hearts and behind her back. She never meets up to our expectations. We never meet up to our own expectations and we expect her to do what we can never do for ourselves. She is our worst enemy and we can prove it by her failings.
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James,
You really hit the nail on the head: deny reality, lack of love, grief, shame, it's all there and you connected it so well.
SS,
Your "set up" was the sub-text of my childhood. I say 'sub-text' because it's covert, just below the surface. Lately, I've given greater attention to sub-text because I think that's where the truth is. Very perceptive, SS.
ann
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I woke up this morning testing myself to see if I was free yet. I'm not. I thought the stuff that came to me last night might set me free. Not yet. I must be close?
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Dear SS and Ann
I have been feeling "peaceful" for the first time,in a long time, pockets of peace within the pain of facing how my M really was. She did not love me. That memory was just a template of my life. I was s/one who was kept powerless so SHE could use me as a blank slate and I would not fight back.
She did not care to help me to get traits in life that would benefit ME.That is how it was. As I see it,I heal.
The pain won't kill me. We, already felt this pain as children and repressed it.
It is pain we hold in our bodies and minds and it poisons us 24/7 ,so getting it out is a relief .We can walk this path, together! Love Ami
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I went back to my mother's childhood and back further to her parent's early marriage. I saw what transpired and I felt some release but there is still so much more to go. I worked with them to show them how they stood back and let things evolve without intervention but that is not parenting and their children needed their guidance. Now I must go back with my father family which was filled with meanness. It is very difficult when both parents were so hateful towards me but in a hidden way.
Plumbing the depths is a painful, painful process. It is lonely too.
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Yes, it is lonely SS. That is why it is so good that you asked for company along the way. And having been asked... makes me feel less lonely, too.
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Dear (((((( SS ))))))
Yes, I identify, it does feel lonely, yet, we are not alone. Especially, we are not alone here in this precious community of friends who have endured the same and are working toward weightless freedom, healing and wholeness of ones authentic identity.
So different from the identity thrust upon us by our parent(s).
Love to you,
Leah
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this precious community of friends
This community of friends is life giving. Those words pale in comparison to the emotion I feel behind those words. I am about to have my life back - for the first time and it is in great part to this community - to these people whose faces i have never seen, whose voices I have never heard and whose names i don't even know. How is that possible? I do not know but I only know it is so.
I am a human being and I need to do so much. I have so much to give, so much to live but I have been in a prison of shame and worthlessness. It no longer matters how people in my community see me. I am beginning to see how much more I am and part of that is because of what has been reflected back to me here. My confidence is building and my desire and ability to expose my pain is also growing and healing me.
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Shame -
The EFT site has helped me realize that I the feelings of shame that I have been battling must be acknowledged. I admit and acknowledge that I feel that I deserve to live like a pig. I don't deserve to have the kind of life that I grew up with. I don't deserve to have or to earn money. I only deserve to be poor. If I deserved anything else I would have it. I deserve to be poor and I deserve to not have resources to provide for my son.
I have battled these and other dark fears for so long. I have battled them and repressed them. I have cried out in my soul to have these feelings removed and yet they remain.
Now I know that I must acknowledge these dark, dark feelings so that I can release them. I am going to be sharing and releasing more and more of these dark feelings here. I am tired of rotting at the core with self-hatred and rage and the sense of injustice.
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Acknowledged; yes...
and then challenged: WHO SAYS SO? And WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM? And NOTHING'S WRONG WITH ME - LEAVE ME ALONE; STOP PICKING ON ME - MEANIE!!!
Those feelings that aren't true about you somehow got stuck in your unconscious self - probably 'coz they hurt so badly, and god knows, you couldn't let the parents know because then you'd get "something to cry about"... and so they got put so far away in the hopes that they'd go away on their own. Those feelings were dangerous; would get you in more trouble or pain. So now, it's time to feel them - let the wave come on, wash over you, and retreat back into the ocean... Because it DOES diminish, the pain does go away just like the tide.... if you allow it to come in AND go out.
Part of getting free is retraining the unconscious self (EFT can help) - replacing those feelings/thoughts; that programming - with something that IS the truth... after you've let the waves of anger, shame, and grief go back to the ocean.
Your "I" - your sense of your self - is strong enough to allow those emotions now; you can't be punished for them - they're YOURS. The emotions will be intense, but you'll still float through and on them. It will be OK - and you won't be alone at all!
We're just this close...
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Feeling rage. indescribable rage!!
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It no longer matters how people in my community see me.
This is liberation, SS.
Congratulations.
When the rage is spent you'll be freer.
love to you,
Hops
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Definitely (((( SS ))))
When the rage is spent - the shackles will break - you will be free.
Love, Leah
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Dear SS
Of course you have rage. You would have to. It could not be expressed when you were a child. It is still there and as you feel it, you will heal.As you feel it, you will see that you are not "bad".They abused YOU.
You were a sweet,innocent kid. They vented their hate on you b/c you were there, NOT b/c you were "you".
I am on the same path, slowly seeing the truth ,little by little.
You are doing really well, SS. Love Ami
(((((SS)))))))
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Thank you all. Today was a good day. I felt a little break through the darkness. I am going to stay with this rage for a while and continue to process it. I will continue to use the EFT on the shame as it is drawing me in deep to the hidden pains. The odd thing about all of this is that there is not yet any new information this process is all about moving it out of knowledge back into the emotion and letting it out.
I have a blind date in a minute. Just for a drink. A friend set it up. My friend's little boy is on the baseball team with my child so he went home with them while I go for a drink. I am aiming to just have fun, be light hearted and enjoy myself. Got to go. I am meeting him at the restaurant. Love to all, SS
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Oh ((( SS )))
How lovely! Enjoy the company just simply being your light hearted self.
Love,
Leah
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It was so nice. He was nice, attractive, smart, fun to be with. Just the boost I needed. Thanks for your encouragement Leah. I feel like a new person - able to do anything - even go on a date and have fun and skip the self-conscious stage that I lived in for so long.
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Dear SS,
I am so happy for you, all sounds absolutely wonderful - and indeed, you are a new person - clearly. You have become free and are stepping out into a new way of life, for you.
Love, Leah
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SS, this is lovely news! :D
I am so glad for you.
I salute your inner lovely 17 year old!
hugs
Hops
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Thank you both. In reading your two posts I'm beginning to feel new. i receive that sense that you have morrored back to me. Thanks for that gift.
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Dear SS
I bet you would be really fun on a date. I bet he was happy to spend some time with you. It is neat that you had a good time.What a gift that you had some fun! Love Ami
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hmmmmmm.....
getting the shame out of the way to get the real feelings - feeling them - digesting & excreting them - letting them go....
makes a lot of room for other things...
like dates? fun?
You are healing those original wounds, SS... VERY QUICKLY!
And you are simultaneously healing them AND beginning to venture into more than surviving - real living!
What a lot of energy you have! :D
I can't wait to hear more good news... I can hear your smile in your words and it does my heart good...
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I am reading Janov's book, The Primal Scream. It really describes how we lose our real self and get "unreal". It is amazing.Maybe you would be interested SS. Just thought I would mention it. Hugs Ami
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Well beware of Ns...................but my hope for you is that you two connect and you have a great guy. Nothing that a little positive distraction won't cure!!
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Thinking of you, SS. You are doing really well! Love Ami
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Thinking of you (((((( Shame Slayer ))))))
Trusting all is well with you.
Love, Leah