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She wanted to become a member of my church, where I am the organist. I presented her to the pastor and she went to the class for new future members.
The membresy is going to be effective and in front of the congregation next Sunday.
Today, she called me and told me that hse is going to call my pastor to tell him that fi he is expecting to have her there every Sunday or she is expected to give constant help, that she does not want to be there.
I hate that woman, GFM nakes me crazy, she triggers me, I dislike her, I hate her. I told her that she does not have to become member of my church and that she should not call mhy pastor and that she does not have to come to mu church but she said that hse wants to go to my church, and call my pastor and tell him every thing she wants.
I hate her. I hate her. I hate her. That woman is just like my mother. I hate her.
I called my son and explained to him what hapened and told me that I have casued him many problems too, so I should not worry about. I gto mute and after a few moments of silence, he told me that he would chat with me later.
I hate GFM. God gave me exactly what I am getting away. I have to detach from that family and if my son wants to ruin his life with that family he will pay the consequences. I have to get away from that woman.
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Lupita,
It must be so hard to be feeling your son pull away into his own adult life.
This girl and her mother really aren't who you would choose for him. Quite the opposite.
But you've tried, really tried, to make it work as best you can -- even including the mother at your church.
It would be so much happier if his adult relationships didn't change the space between you and him.
But even if they were the fantasy new family of your dreams, it would still change that space.
It's the chapter he's in, you're in...both of you having to adapt to a new degree of separateness.
You and he have been on your own together and so close, for so long, that this must be extra hard for you.
With little happiness and support at your job, and all the isolation of your recent life...
I understand how awful it would feel to have to cope with the mother's invasion into your church, which
is one place of refuge for you. And to have the daughter ignore you.
I don't have the answer, I just sympathize.
You are doing the best you can and the situation is completely out of your control.
It's got to be hard.
I am sorry you feel you have to maintain a friendship, but I understand you have tried for your son.
Don't try so hard, Lupita...you don't have to be perfect about this.
You can't change it, but you can take better care of your heart.
love
Hops
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Oh Lupita, I am so sorry. She sounds so much like my mother. I am so sorry that your son can't see the problem yet but don't give up on him at least GFM is not his MIL and God willing she will never be.
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Just detaching recently from my students and the way they treat me, and he way they treat me at the school, m coworkers, thinking positive about finding a new job, and suddenly this bitch comes to my church and decide she wants to be a member and promises to give money, she has money, she wants to be able to influence the places where I go.
When we have eaten together she asks me what I order and she orders the same.
When we are together, I ask a question the GF and GFM answers it. In the seven months my son an her have together, I have never been able to cross onw word with this GF. Never ever. Her mother prevents me from making friends with her. This girl is going to ruin my son's life. My life too.
I think my son is punishing me for being such a posseissive mother.
SS, thank you for writing me. I am not as good as you thought. I am full of shit too.
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I am not as good as you thought. I am full of shit too.
Ah, Lupita. I feel this way about myself almost constantly. It is so easy for someone or something to trigger those kinds of feelings in myself. So, I'm kind of smiling and shaking my head this morning even though it is nothing to smile about. I still believe that the losers of the world have dozens of ways to dump their crap on us and we take it in as if we deserve it. But we don't.
It is true that your son will have to discover GF's flaws all on his own. So sad that you have to wait for him to figure this out and your feelings are truly getting hurt in this process. The very hardest thing of all about being a mother. I don't think you will lose him. You are such a good mother and good person. But it's going to be a tough time.
Keep in mind, it will work out better in the end if he is the one to discover the flaws. As hard as that is going to be for you to sit tight. He has to do this himself. Let's all hope he figures it out sooner rather than later.
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Juno, you are right. He has to re invent the wheel on his own. My wheel wont work for him the same way that my mother's wheel never worked ofr me and I had to rediscover the world on my own. Good idea.
The problem is to control my self.
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Lupita... glad for the update.... sorry it's so hard right now.
As I read your posts about speaking with GFM and your son....
I thought about Hops posting, to me I think, to just sit with the difficult feelings....
do nothing.
You you're triggered.
You know you're reacting to her.
Try not to reach out and transfer those feelings to your son, if you can.
Detachment.
Easier said than done, I know.
((Lupita))
Concentrate on what you can change, help, alter, make better and influence.
Your job, outlook on young love, your peceptions of the world..... just suggestions.
Hope you feel better soon.
Lighter
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I agree with you Lighter. Hops post is very insightful.
It is just that I have to control my slef. It is very difficult.
I need to detach.
[/size][/size][/color]
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I want to feel good.
I will stop saying anything negative about GF
[/glow]
I will step back
I will let him do his own choices on his own. I will not say anything!!!!!!
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I am not as good as you thought. I am full of shit too.
Lupita, I didn't ask you for your help because I thought you had it all together or that I thought you were perfect but because I see your humanity and your work on yourself. I know that you won't give up and you won't let this "stuff" keep you down. You are making progress with boundaries with GFM and that will lead to progress with your son. You are moving along and not giving up. That is what i love about you Lupita.
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I was thinking today about GF. I understand the many things about her that bother you. But.... her mother is a possible N. Perhaps GF is Voiceless. She could even have some depression. But Voiceless no doubt with the mother she has. Her journey hasn't even begun yet, though. And yours is so much further along. It may be inevitable that she effects you this way.
I think your resolution to detach is excellent. It will give you peace and it will give your son the space he needs to decide how this thing will go.
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The thing about advice, Lupita.....
is people don't listen, unless they asked you for advice.
And sometimes.... they don't listen, even when they asked.
When your son asks for your opinion..... think about what you want him to hear.... and say it.
There will be times that he asks.
Lighter
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Well Lup, I never met my D's b/fs mother or father and they been together 2 years. We know each other through both of them talking about us but met, not yet.
They are serious but not that serious like getting married or anything, yet. They are young and really don't think about us meeting (parents) They just do thier own thing with both families. Easter her b/f was with us at our family and My D did Palm with them.
The Sister my D gets some bad vibes from and I told her to keep it to herself it is her b/f's sister. Don't talk about his sister to him. Don't put him in the middle to handle it herself she is capable. She gets this and has done it. All is at peace without a family feud. She has straightened Sister Dear out all by herself.
Have Faith in your son Lup. Believe in him even if this turns out to be a mistake. It's his mistake and I'm sure you taught him well. Let him experience on his own now.
Sometimes it's hard when they don't need Mama anymore. I know it was/is hard for me to cut the apron strings. I only want the best for them but the are the only ones who can choose that. If they choose to make a mistake all you have to be is unconditonal when they need you. That is it. No strings attached. I love you because I love you. Period. Now Fly!
Love
Deb
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Yesterday, Saturday, I picked up my son from a guigue he played. I took him to his house. He told me "I have plans with my GF" I thought he had plans with her. He thought he had plans with her. He did not relized that GFM did not have plans for GF to see my son. When he called her she said that she did not know if she was going to see her. Minutes later GFM called him. I told him, why is that women calling you and making arragements for your date with your GF. He said stay out of my business. When I left GFM said that if he wanted for GF to visit my son that she had to come with GF and my son said, yes you can both visit me. Then she said that she did not know what she was going to do.
I left, my son's phone charger was at my house and I di dnot want to come and pick it up and go back there, his son was dead. I have no way to call him. I left and he satyed there not knowing if he was going to see his girlfriend.
He asked me to go to target for some shopping but I had a date for the first time in a long time and I told him I had to go. I was so tired when I got to my date that I had to drink two red bulls. I felt guilty all night. I feel that I ruined my son's day.
He has no idea what he is getting into. Those two women are the devil. They are going to ruin his career. GFM is so egotistical.
Yes Juno, she is an N. Very much and N and that is why I fear her so much and I dislike her so much. Because she remember me of my mother all the time andin everything she does and she says.
I feel horrible.
Bad from work, bad from son, bad from last night date.
I felt so bad last night in my date that I was extremelu boring to him. I had no motivstion to talk, I was judgemental, all what I hate from others I was last night. He wil probably will ask me out again but, I know he is not for me.
Feel horrible!!!!!
Still have to go to church, play the organ, play the piano, smile and answer to everybody "I am doind great, how bout you?" and smile from ear to ear.
I understand now what means to hate one self. I do.
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I did not know before what were they talking about when they said, you ahte your self. I now know. I do hate my self. I dislike the way I look, the way I talk, the way I behave. I am a horrible mother.
I am doing an effort for my son and when he gets in the car, the first thing he does is calling the F*ck*** GF. I am driving one hour and a half extra driving just to help him. He has not said hi to me, he has not given me a hug, the first thing he does is get my phone and call her. He is desperate to call her. His phone has been dead since yesterday because he left his phone charger at my house. I did not want to come back home to get it. Too much driving. He told me that I would drive him home and she would visit him at his house. He did not know that GFM had different plans. I told him, GFM is going to dictate everything you do if you marry this empty barinless woman.
I should feel more empathy for her. She is voiceless. She is a victim. But I hate the way she worships her mother. I hate it. She is just like my sister.
My son is punishing me with her. My son hates me.
When my mother has come to visit from our country, she is getting from the plane and she has not hugged me and the first thing she wants to do is to call my sister. I say I do not have international service, then she says let us get some phone cars, then instead of giving me hugs and let me enjoy her presence ofr a few moments after a year of not seeing each other I have to drive around town looking for phone cards that have service to our country. Then she found one that was too expensive and she said that it was my fault.
This year, I asked her to come for my son's graduation recital. Sge said no. Ok. She will not be welcome again. I will not encourage her to come. I will tel her that we can skip this year. And I will comply. I do not want to see her. I can not have my mother and GFM together. I will die.
Nobody loves me. My son hates me.
I have to go play the organ and the piano when I want to sleep forever.
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I'm so sorry you feel that way , Lup.
I know what it's like to feel powerless....
to want to sleep and sleep and sleep and sleep....
never wake up.
The thought of your beloved son marrying into a nightmare.....
is there any escape from those thoughts?
I don't know and I can't possibly understand bc my children are still so small.
All I can say is..... I hope the depression passes....
At least lifts a little and doesn't stay so so dark.
You're seeing a warped view of yourself and that's just not Lupita, dedicated loving mother.
How can you gain some feelings of control in your life?
How can you step back and find some detachment?
It's so hard to say nothing....
and gain your voice.
I understand that.
(((Lupita)))
Your son will make his own decisions and.....
he'll never see GFM and GF for what they are if he's busily defending them against you, KWIM?
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OK, GF just called me. Last night, GFM went and picked him up at his house nad he spend the night at thier house. I asked him if he is going to eat with me like we do every sunday, he told me, I do not know, call GFM and she will tell you what we are going to do. I do not know what she wants to do.
I told him, why do I have to call GFM when you are my son and you have to know if you want to eat with me or not. He said. OK.
That was it.
I am tired. I do not want to be with them.
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I lost. I lost my son. I lost the war. OK, I should not feel it is a war. That gets me in trouble. I am powerless. There is nothing I can do. Nothing. He will ruin his life. And I will be there to lift him up after all the damage is done. I know that. I wasted six years of his precious life with his father when I should have left him way before. I have tio pay for that. I overprotected my son. I made him a CC and I have to pay for that. I told me you made me a CC and it is your fault.
He is very unfair to me. Anyway, I am a bitch. I hate my self and I do not want to be with the, today.
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(((((((((Lupita))))))))))) I am so sorry for how hard this is. Sometimes I wonder--what is all our new knowlege for if it still hurts this much? It hurts more actually because now we know enough to SEE but not enough knowlege to FIX IT!!!!
This is the terrible puzzle of Narcissism. We cannot safely enter their world. Your son has been harvested by them and he simply cannot see his way clear. Izzy's daughter got lost to an N too. It has been all these years later and so much hurt and loss. This is the tragedy of N.
Lupita, you see how it keeps getting turned on you no matter what you do. It is so very, very hard. This is where faith comes in. Faith that you will not lose him forever. You are absolutely right about what you are seeing. But he is a man now. What you can give him is your love, your wisdom, your faith, your wholeness. It is not your fault about the phone charger. It was probably inevitable that you would feel lackluster on your date. Please be kind to yourself.
I have been praying for myself to God to heal from the self-hatred. I am using that prayer as an affirmation or positive message many times a day. Like you have been doing with Wayne Dyer I think you said. I don't do much with the books. Lack of patience or something. But what I learned lately about self-hatred and things people had said here, helped me come up with my own prayer about healing from self-hatred. I feel that it is starting to take hold now, the healing from self-hatred. I cannot let the slowness of this kind of healing deter me. I have always thought things would not happen for me when really it was just going slow.
When you get home from church I hope you will come here and read my post and feel less alone and hopeless.
Love, Juno
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Hi Juno, thanks.
What is the prayer. Do you have special words? Just:
Help me god to heal from self prayer. Just that? What else do you say?
Yes, he has been harvest by these two Ns. Both of them are Ns.
Today we finaly went to eat. GF did not eat. She did not like the restuarante I picked. So, she did not eat anything. She said something and My son wanted to add something while she was talking, and she hit him in the stomach with her elbow in signal of shut up. He immediately shut up. I looked at him. I am so sad. I have to follow lsighter advise. I have to let him go. He will see the truth when I stop fighting. He has to discover the truth on his own.
I need to be independent and find my own life or I am going to die. Today I felt at lunch with these people that I was dieing in my heart, my soul was being destructed. I think I have to avoid being with them. GF is openly rude to me and my son is uncapable of doing anything. So, I have to keep my distance. I will sepnd time with my son when he wants.
GFM decided to attedn my church, now she is sucking up to my pastor and to the scretary. She has been catholic all her life, since when did she decided to become a protestant? Since when? Shes just wanted to stick her nose in my environment.
That sick she is the deam bitch.
I need to keep my distance and stop hating her. I need to stop hating her.
Wain Dyer says that if you change the way you think about things, things will change.
I need to change my attitude around these bitches. OK i will stop calling them bitches. But I need to put a distance. I dont want to be with them.
I am going to dye.
My mother in low committed suicide according to me. My father in low made her feel bad. He is a successful doctor and she dedicated her life to the home. twenty years ago she discover a breast lump. The biopsy diagnosed cancer. She decided not to do anything and said that it was a gift from God because she did not find any purpose in her life.
My husband made me feel the same way. But I left him and now my son makes me feel the same way. My lie does not have purpose. Who I most love in my life, I am losing him. I am losing him to a life that I am trying to get away so hard. And he is going to fall in what I worked to hard to get him off from.
There is no purpose of my work. I wanted for my son to have a better life and he is falling in a trap that I fell by destiny but he is falling by choice.
So, I am powerless. I have to accept what I can change and what I cannot.
There is nothing I can do.
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I friend sent me this and I am sure she would not mind if I share it with you guys. This is me right now. I do not want to do anything now. I will strat tomorrow intensive therapy. On my own.
Control-----> I have zero
Ownership--------> I owe it. I ti smy fault for overprotecting my son and make an obedient man of him nad polite and respectful, and I am afraid in the porcess I killed his self esteem.
R---------> I know I am catastrophyzing. How to avoid it? I feel like shit right now.
E--------> I want to dye.
Adversity Quotient: Turning Obstacles Into Opportunities (Wiley,
1997) Author: Paul Stoltz, uses the acronym CORE to preserve
psychological health in negative situations. He explains:
"C" is for Control—recognize your own power in a situation.
"O" is for Ownership—what part of the problem do you take
responsibility for solving?
"R" is for Reach—don't catastrophize, and don't let the problem leak
into other parts of your life.
"E" is for Endurance—don' t let adversity get you down for long.
Stoltz believes that, on our own, we can get to the "core" of our
potential for happiness.
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OK dear friends, even if you want to slap my hand, or scold me, you can, I allow you, I need you!!!!
I feel so lonely today. I need it now!!!!!!1 I need somebody to talk to me now!!!!!!!!!!
Why this sudden loneliness killer??????????
Why this compulsive need to have somebody right now who can give me some love, aproval and validation!!!!!
I am so needy!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ami, where are you. This is where we connect. When I feel so bad. As you mention in so many threads.
Self hate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Well, I am typing at the same time as you. I bet Ami will be on soon. Until then.....
My prayer is something simple I made up for myself. It is based on my realizing that when I say I hate someone or something, perhaps I am really saying I hate myself. Normally, I pray for "the right words at the right time". That prayer makes me mindful and slows me down and helps me to understand that things tend to work out for the best if I don't get all nuts about things. In hindsight, I can see the big picture and the big picture is what I am aiming for.
So, for a couple of weeks now, I have prayed several times per day, Dear God, please help me to stop hating myself, please help me to forgive myself, please help me to love myself, please help me to heal from my hatred of myself. Then I go on to pray for my sons, my husband, family and friends. My sons are in special transition times right now looking for good jobs so I have added that this week, too.
It is amazing how hard it was at first to feel worthy of this simple prayer. I guess that shows the depth of my self-hatred. It does go pretty deep. It is long term, probably lifelong, that I have hated myself inside. I was a good sponge for my parents, hmmm?
It had to be awfully hard to sit through that restaurant meal. GF is not even at the beginning of her journey out of voicelessness. She doesn't even know that is what she is. Your son is at the beginning of a very hard journey. I hope that he will see it before he is legally tied to her. But he must be the one to see it, you already know. It is heartbreaking to watch. Perhaps your prayers and affirmations will have to include requests for strength to get through this. Wisdom and strength. Whatever it is you think you need to get through this time.
So, that's it for now. We are going outside to burn our brush pile. It is close to the little garden I want to plant tomorrow, so burn now, plant later.
Good night, Lupita.
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Thank you Juno. I will use your prayer as a base and will create one and wirte it up here to see if you can use something or for you to add something that you think might help to me or others.
I will pray for my son to see the truth before he does something irreparable.
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Dear Lupita,
I have not been responding on your threads b/c I thought you told me, a long time ago, that my POV was not helpful to you.
I did not want to intrude if my way of seeing things was not helpful to you, Lupita. Maybe, I misunderstood. Ami
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I am going to the swiming pool to see if this panic attack can come down.
Feel so bad!!!!!!!!
It is OK Ami. Thank you.
God bless you. I do not have time to discuss right now. I need to do something about my problem.
God bless you. I still pray for you and your son Gregory. Love to you.
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I have worked so hard for my son, that I have to let go so I do not kill my self of a heart attack. My blood pressure is at its maximum and my heart is pounding at its maximum. I am afraid. I lost the battle.
I have to accept, I have to detach, I have to validate my slef, not asking for others validation. I have to depend on my own, and opun God only.
I am going to the pool to see if I can come down.
Thank you for listening.
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I guess this is the time to get my anxiety medication. I try not to take it frequently, only when I am feeling very very bad. I will today.
Last time I took it was like two weeks ago due to sixth period. So I think I am doing good in opreventing addictions.
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OK< Lighter, where are you
Juno thanks, keep writing
Shame S where are you
Hops where are you
Lea hwere are you
Seasons where are you
all my sweet kind friends that always write to me, where are you?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
:?: :idea: :arrow: :| :o :shock:
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I'm here, Lupita.
I think that swimming and changing your environment is a good idea to break an anxiety attack.
Did it help?
I have a little excercise I'll begin working on myself.
I'll share it with you and we'll see how it works.
::getting coffee brb::
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Hey, Lupita...
Anxiety medication was invented for exactly this purpose. When you're having a panic attack, taking a pill or two does not make you an addict. Nobody likes the feeling of needing Rx to cope. But when you need it, you need it.
I truly believe we live in a warped culture that contributes a great deal to this exact type of panic. When a precious relationship changes, and we have no anchor.
I have been there, dear Lupita. I know how you are feeling. And I know you deserve a community of good friends.
This may be a controversial response, but I keep wondering if being immersed in that church community and that church school is stifling to you. As though you have to keep pretending all the time, and can't feel safe to just be.
Who you are is a good person with vulnerabilities. Welcome to the club.
You are passionate, emotive, and have been enduring a great deal of stress.
You don't have enough of a support system in your life. You have been so isolated, and that's not who you are.
You are a person who needs and deserves a group of loving accepting friends, a community. Even if it began with a support group, I think it would make such a difference to you.
I wish you were a UU because we would be there for you, without forcing you to be "good girl." We would accept you as a powerful, vulnerable (yes, both) woman in pain. Who can decide her own beliefs and needs and not have to pretend.
love
Hops
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Dear ((((((((( Lupita ))))))))))
My heart truly goes out to you, regarding your angst and heartache in this situation with your dear son and his gf (and gfm).
I read this link this morning ... http://en.bibleinfo.com/topics/topic.html?id=11 (http://en.bibleinfo.com/topics/topic.html?id=11) which may be of help to you.
You are a wonderful mother in every sense of the word.
Love to you,
Leah x
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I haven't gotten this worked out myself yet but will list it as I understand it.
List this for yourself, Lupita
1. Goal
form
2. Facts
draw circle
3. Needs here
economy function
4. Concept
time
5. Problems
(never changes)
You have specific problems, goals, needs and a certain amount of time, money and energy to solve it.
There will be logical solutions to spend your energy on and then there's illogical solutions you simply can't make work bc of your resources and the reality of any situation.
Now..... I've probably mentoined this before but I'll say it again bc it comes to mind when I read your posts.
Your son has a goal.
He wants to be a musician.
(His GF doesn't respect or care for his work.)
Your son wants to become an established businessman before he marries and starts a family.
(GF and GFM want him to abort his plans for their desires and get married sooner.)
(these are his problems btw, not yours)
How can you help him remain on track and attain his goals? (That seems reasonable to me, as a goal for him)
Validating the wisdom and logic of his plan makes sense.
Or......
Discussing, in bright chirpy tones, how giving up his plans to stay home and help his soulmate raise children, bc surely she won't want him to travel or be messing with all that musical stuff will:
Gift him something more important.... raising children with his soulmate, they can both be parents together instead of his establishing himself in a business first.
He'll get to spend time with his children and wife while they're all young.... that's going to be more difficult if he hasn't become established yet but, hey..... what's more important..... creating security for his young family or starting the family early?
BTW.... you can't wait to get your hands on those grandbabies.... K?
Lupita.... you can't be sarcastic EVER.
You must sound sincere and lay out the reality of the situation so that HE IS THE ONE WHO MAKES THE CONNECTION FOR HIMSELF.
If you have him defending GF AND GFM.... he can't look into the future.
Tell him how nice it will be to have GFM around all the time making decisions for you both so you have more time to raise the babbies and work whatever job she figures is best.
She's a very wise wealthy woman.... she'll be good at helping with family decisions..... nod a lot, but not too much.
He should probably start thinking about a different line of work, something that will keep him home more.
This conversation may sound nothing like this, but you get my meaning.
Present the reality and be happy about it. Glad for him. Supportive and willing to lend a hand to GF and GFM, KWIM?
When you stop supporting his plans... his dreams, his goals.....
he'll receive a shock he didn't know existed.
That's the wake up call he needs.
Now, if you're not completely confused..... get paper and pencil and draw the above diagram for your own life, not his.
What are Lupita's goals for herself?
Love ya,
Lighter
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Juno, I cant think. Today I will use only your prayer. Cant make my own......yet. I will when I am feeling better. Your help is very much appreciated. In fact it is invaluable. So good, so great, when I most needed support. Thank you.
Hops, thanks for your opinion. I agree that the school "christian school" where I work is a very toxic environment. But I am so sick that wherever I go it becomes a toxic environment. I know I have to change jobs, but I have to improve my self so I do not turn it into a toxic environment. Of coure it is not all my fault, but it is partly my fault. So, if God blesses me with a better job, I have to work very hard on my self to succeed, at least in the social aspect, because I know I am a good teacher, and kids will be kids. But I hve to be a more desirable person to join with. So they are not dispising me all the time. (I am talking with self hate) at least I notice it now.
Hops, I agree that the church is not helping me. I want to find a job in public school before I leave the church. If you are not in church you cannot work in a christian school. So, this summer will ne full of changes if God helps. And Im positive he will help and I will find a job in a public school where my private life is not judged.
Lighter, thanks for the time. Now, you have to work with me a little more. I do not understnad the plan. So, please, if you can, let us go by steps.
So, what would be my first step??????????????
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Lea, thank you so much for the website, I just read it. It is fantastic. Everything in one site. I can use it in so many ways. Thank you so much for the time to look for that just for me.
God bless you.
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OK, Lighter, or anybody who would like to jumo in, let us work on that first step.
Lighter:
I DO NOT KNOW WHAT IS MY GOAL
First I thought it was to become a doctor in the USA. I have worked so hard and no hospital took me. OK I still have two more things to do about that. I am thinking about do it or not.
Also, I wanted to do a PHD in neuroscience.
Also, my first an most closest goal is to find a job in public schools.
OK that is numbre 1
Find a job in public school. Have to wait till the end of July and beginning of August when the positions are released and open to the public.
But if God helps and I get a job in public school I have to have the emotional equipment to become a desirable employee and not a burden because of my needyness. So I have to survive that job.
Number 2
Save some money for a 3D councelor.
Number 3
Detach from my son's choices and just be there to help him if he needs it. Detach from that toxic GF and GFM. HOw???? I do not know, I will think about it.
Number 3
I need to relax. This year has been hell for me.
Number 4
After a few days of rest I will start thinking how to do or norrow my goals.
Number 5
Take that setp 3 of USMLE and do an observership to be if that way I can enter a residency program for my MD dream.
Number 6
I need to rest and relax
Number 7
Form a support group on my own.
Number 8 I need to rest
Number 9
Keep working on growing up and desensitization fo triggers
Number 10
I want to feel good
Number 11
Inner peace This is the must important.
I want to feel good.
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OK, find a job in public school is the number one goal now. Because of the benefits, the salary and the liberty of not going to church.
Also, Work on my self so I do not have big problems if god blesses me with a job in a public school so I can deal with the daily probles with out feeling threaten ot frighten.
That is the most immediate goal.
At the mean time I want to do a prayer like JUNO suggested, very similar with my needs in it so I can pray directly to what I need.
I want to feel good. I want to be good.
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The other number I do not know yet.
For NEEDS
I need a support group. How to find it? I dont know. To make it on my own? Maybe. More owrk? maybe too much work.
Need to detach from my son for my own good.
Need to feel good. Need to have peace. That is the most imprtant.
I want to feel good.
I want to feel good. I want to see GFM and the control she exercise on my son and not to feel anything. Just leave it up to him. AFter all I do not have a choice.
I cann see that that woman drives me crazy. And it is not the GF it is the GFM the one that drives me crazy. Totally crazy. I will not do anything. I will step back. How?????????????
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Please friends, give me your opinion.
Should I just stay away from GFM? How? She is part of my social group. If I run away from her instead of dealing with her, I will go again from place to place when I have decided to stay.
Wherever I go I will find a person like her that drives me crazy and I run away. I have been doing that all my fu****ng life. Moving from place to place running away from people who behave like my mother. And no matter where I go I always find somebody like GFM that causes me the same pain.
I have to deal with her and survive and deal with anybody like her.
I guess the goal number one is to learn to love my slef so I feel content and I do not feel bad.
OK, I am going to eat something and exercize a little and come back.
Thank you to all my friends who are helping me. I do not know why I feel so bad. Maybe I know.
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Lighter thank you for your time. Let us keep working. This is very good what you are doing right now with me. I like it very much. It is almost like 3D.
I think my son has decided that even if he marries he does not want children until he is established. Good for him. My point now is not that he has children, but that he enmeshes in an N relatioship with the GFM too so much that he gets confused and he is just surviving everyday to complay with their never endless needs. These two work for their egos and working for the ego is endless. They have no insight at all. And my son knows it. He has told me. And he still tells me how much he loves them. He tells me that GFM is very good despite that he recognizes her as an N. He knows. He is self destroying him self. He knows. He does not visualize the hell that and N puts you. He does not know that yet. I think I am not an N because I love my son very much. So he does not know what is to be never good enough. He will know soon. I have to step back like you sat and work on my self.
OK, what is KWIM? I have no idea. KWIM what is that?
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If anybody wants to jomd in here, I can use any help I get.
God bless you all.
I need to feel good.
I NEED TO FEEL GOOD. I NEED PEACE!!!!!
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((Lupita))
I just popped in, have been away for several days. I'm so sorry you are in such pain. You will get better.
I so identify with your feelings and can learn from you, as you work through them.
Will be back tonight. Until then, I will continue to think and pray for you. For Lupita to feel good and have peace in your heart.
love seasons
p.s. I love Lighters threads, most helpful, use these tools!!
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Thank you seasons, thank you so much for jumping in to my help. I need as much help as I can get.
Feel very lonely. Always faking and pretending, never safe. Always isolated, alwyas lonely.
I took a red bull to see if I get energized but still sleepy. Exhausted.
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Yes.
You are always faking and pretending and so so very isolated and lonely.
This is what's wrong.
I get a job in public school I have to have the emotional equipment to become a desirable employee and not a burden because of my needyness
The reason you are "needy" is because you NEED a support group, healthy (not religion-based, imo) counseling and a community of peers that hears you and supports you without judging you. But, you have no money for counseling.
Okay, I will say this again. I believe with all my heart Lupita that you MUST find a women's support or therapy group and attend it regularly. I believe you should have a meaningful group to attend at LEAST two nights a week, where you can be honest and open and emotional and NOT FAKE ANYTHING AND NOT PRETEND for an hour or two. Where you can experience being heard and accepted exactly as you really are and really feel.
This experience STRENGTHENS you because you experience in company that you can be who you actually are without the world falling apart. Repeated, regularly, this experience strengthens you more because you gradually take interest in your own life.
I don't believe you have much interest in your own life, right now. Just in your son's, your students', your church and school authorities', the GFM's.
So, where do you find such groups when you have no money to pay for it? I'll PM you some places to start.
Sliding scale, you meet with the leader and ask for reduction or free--it happens.
I hope you'll do this rather than distract yourself from the pain because the pain will come back over and over until you get what you NEED and it is okay for you to NEED support from outside your family!!!
love
Hops
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Hey Hops, thanks for the e mail. I e mailed several of those places. Let us see if they answer me back.
GFM always puts me in crisis. I did no have a crisis since new years eve. That was my last crisis. I hate that woman.
I am dyeing little by little.
Let us see if something works out well with the e maisl I sent.
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Hopalong, I recieved the first e mail.
Yes, I have a sliding scale for counseling. It is from $75 a session to $125 a session, so I would be able to meet with you for $75 a session. If this is acceptable please call my cell phone or e-mail me.
Regards
Can you imagine???????????? 75.00?????????? That is my supermarket for one week!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! One month of dance lessons!!!!!!!!
See? even in a sliding scale, it is unaffordable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All that money for 45 minutes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I cant do it :(
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You have no idea how I feel thinking that all of you are having bbq in your back yards with friends and I am home alone while my son is entertaining GFM. She goes out with them all over the place. While I am here cooking my self in my own souce. I want to dye. I dont like life, and I do not like society, and I dont like the way we have to live.
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KWIM = Know what I mean?
Hops is right... you have to find at least one person or group where you can be accepted as your authentic self.
That you're constantly living in a state of un reality.... pretending and smiling when you want to scream out how unfair things are.....
would drive anyone into an anxiety attack.
You do it all the time and you don't get Sundays off.
There have to be support groups in your area... I'll pm one to you that may lead somewhere.
(((Lupita))) Biting your tongue around your son and GF and GFM isn't healthy.
Don't expect that it'll ever feel good, it won't.
He'll be able to listen to you better if you can detach, or appear to detach.
It's amazing the difference in how people view you, if you can manage it.
Lighter
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Lupita
I haven't posted here yet, but my feeling is that you love your son so much it is stifling. You must learn to let go, and you can still love him no matter where he lives, whether the North Pole or the Himalayas. He is the son you love. Period!
You don't like his girlfreind, then ignore her and her mother. Why try to be friends with Ns, people you don't like. WE try to have NO CONTACT with Ns. ....................and no one iis married yet!
Be loving, kind, patient to, and detached from, your son and find a life of your own to fit your ideas of your own personal happiness.
Your son is old enough to make his own choices. One day you will be a grandmother and can love and tend to and help with those little ones. Your son is a grown man now!
I hope you will not take offence at anything I have said. It's just how I see it!
Love
Izzy
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I am trying. It is just very hard. Incredibly hard. To let go. See him enmesh with Ns. Two of them. It is killing me. But I am trying Izz, I promise you that I am trying.
:? :shock: :o
I AM TRYING :o
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I want to feel good.
I want to detach.
God, help me love my self!!!!
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Thank you for taking the time to wirte me Izz.
Lihter, thank you again. Let us keep working with the puzzle you gave me it is nice. I gave you two if them. How do I find out the others.
Lighter, I know. I need 3D. At least a friend. They do not understand.
At least I am going to have vacation and look for another job.
So, that will help. I will try not to see GF and GFM so frequently. I will try. I am so afraid of them. Sge decided to suck up to the secretary of the church. This woman is sick. I hate her.
She has been catholic of her life since when she wants to help a protestant church!!!!!!!!!!!! :evil:
Yes, I need a friend of I am goign to get real sick.
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OK Juno, I have the beginning of my pray.
Please God:
Help me love my self. Help trust you. Help me trust on my son. That he will make the right choices for him. Help me stay away of his choices and give me the strenght to accept whatever eh chooses to do. Help me control my tongue. Help me to strenght my faith that you are the perect God and know what is better for all of us.
I am stuck there.
Hey Lea, can you jump in here?
What else can I say in my daily prayer?
Anybofy, any ideas?
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A support group with people who've experienced N's and worse.....
will provide people who understand.
No sense even trying to explain all this to people who don't get it.
It's hard to believe, frankly.
I always felt guilty bringing this darkness into the lives of people, who didn't have to live with it otherwise.
They don't want to know.... and who can blame them?
You have your friends here..... until you find 3-D support.
It means so much to find validation and understanding.
Lighter
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Lupita,
One reason I keep recommending a women's support or therapy GROUP is that in a group, you pay less.
I saw one of the resources I sent you a link to mentioned sliding scale of $10 and up.
I suggest you reply to every email saying what you honestly can afford. Tell them your income, your insurance situation, and say: "I can pay $8 per session and I need your help. Please help me or refer me to a group that can."
Okay? You have to be determined about this, dear.
You are resourceful and it is worth fighting for, imo.
love to you,
Hops
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Lupita,
I hope you are sleeping and getting well needed rest. I feel your pain and I am sorry.
You are loved by so many here who really care about you.
You, Lupita are amazing. Just you, with out your son, SG, SGM and so on. You are unique and have many gifts God has given YOU!
You will prevail, Lupita will work through this and come out on top.
Okay? You have to be determined about this, dear.
You are resourceful and it is worth fighting for, imo.
love to you,
Hops
You have your friends here..... until you find 3-D support.
It means so much to find validation and understanding.
Lighter
Ditto Lighter and Hops! Listening, here, present for you Lupita. Bless You seasons
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Lupita, that's a wonderful prayer. Just start with that, perhaps as the days go on it will open you up to more things you can touch on.
Juno
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Dear God:
Help me love my self
.
Help me trust you. .Help me to strenght my faith that you are the perect God and know what is better for all of us.
Help me trust on my son. That he will make the right choices for him. Help me stay away of his choices and give me the strenght to accept whatever he chooses to do.
Help me control my tongue.
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Hops I did not see the 8.00 anywhere. But somebody from the stress program that you sent me contacted me by e mail and gave me his pohone. He did not say any praice, just said call me and will check options. Thanks.
Lighter, I know, it is very difficult to talk with people who did not have an N M because they do not understand, it is not in their capabilities. And they keep asking you, why this and why the other and then youy feel overwhelmed, so overwhelmed, that the pain goes greater, because on top of all you do not feel understood. They do not uderstand the pain you are suffering. It is not in thier minds. And gets worse if they consider you ungrateful, but how can you give oxigen when you are axphixiating? I think they do not rtelize that you have to get better before they can expect anything from a person that is barely existing.
Sunday I was almost about to dye. I thought that my life had no purpose. I thought I wanted to get a cancer. I feel better today.
But Sunday and Monday I was not able to help other to walk because I had a broken leg. I thought I was losing my son to an N family. Something I have fought so hard and sacrificed so much to stay away. And my son who knows wthat is it, who is not ignoprant of it is falling in the trap.
That is what is killing me.
But feel much better today. Not energetic but not sad, just flat.
When I saw that GFM was sucking up to the secretary of my church I thought I was going to die. She is stilling my son, and now she is invading the world that I have created with so much effort. Because for me it is an effort to reach out and make friends. It is a huge effort. Remember that I was told all my life that I should not like other people except my mother. Now, it is an effort a huge effort to reach out.
And if on top of it this monster comes to invade the small world I have contructed with so much effort. U want to dye.
The secretary is going to fall in love wiht her. In the blik of an eye she will be controlling my church and I will be forced to leave the same way I left my home, I left my husband, I left several jobs and I have been leaving everywhere. I wanted to stay this time and deal with the problems.
God will help me.
Seasons, thank you fro your encouragement.
I barely got up today and came to work. I think I am depressed.
But less desperate.
Need to detach from my son, I need to. I need to detach, I need to detach. God will help me.
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Lupita, I am so glad you got that response from the stress group. Please, call the leader.
Strangely enough, I've heard of people bartering for counseling...sometimes they say Yes!
Maybe you could ask him to have one initial session with you, and when you're there, tell him you can offer piano lessons or salsa dance lessons, if he will counsel you or accept you into the group.
I know several people who have made arrangements like that when they needed counseling and support but had no insurance and no money to spare.
You have to be determined about this, dear, because you are worth it.
If one doesn't work out, another will.
So this is your homework and I know you can do it!
Oddly, I found some comfort in this:
I thought I was losing my son to an N family. Something I have fought so hard and sacrificed so much to stay away. And my son who knows wthat is it, who is not ignoprant of it is falling in the trap.
It occurs to me that almost everyone here, is here because they had a relationship with an N. I can think of no case where someone avoided a relationship with an N simply because someone else told them what Ns were. So maybe this relationship is your son's effort to find out for himself what an N is. Maybe he actually has to do this for himself, Lupita, in order to make the big mistake we all had to make, in order to set different boundaries for ourselves.
Of course you would like to spare him the pain and sacrifice. But maybe you can't. Think ahead to when your son is a wise, talented, bruised-by-life but soulful, kind, WISE man of 40 or 50. Perhaps he'll be in a happy second marriage. Perhaps he'll be bringing your adorable grandchild by for a visit. Perhaps then, one day, he'll say, Mom, I now know that you were right, she wasn't the right person for me. But I had to make my own mistakes, and it's okay, Mom. That's the way life works.
love,
Hops
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And I am going to seriously think about the hypnosis and the book and everything I can do to improve. I cannot live like that. Everytim I have to interact with GFM I am dyeing. That cant be. I have to take care of this feelings.
Besides it could be GFM or somebody else. It does not have to be GFM. It is GFM on this ocasion.
End of the year, lots of work, problems at work, they dispise me at work, my son abandoning me and siding with GFM, debt to several creditors, hospital bills that I have not paid, having to look for a new job, moeny problems, slaped in the face ny another friend, and so many things that have happened to me, not to mention that I had a car accident on March and still suffering consequences of that.
A friend told me that I can respond to one stressor very well but when I have several stressors at the same time I explode.
That is what has happened this weekend and having to fake all the time is killing me.
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Hi Hop, I called the person from the website. The person did not answer. I left my phone number for him to call me when ever he can. Hope that his works out.
It would be nice of you can write more extensively about the hypnosis process.
Thanks
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Hi Lupita,
I don't have the energy to narrate much right now but this is a good overview and recommends an on-target book about it too:
http://www.wikihow.com/Perform-Self-Hypnosis (http://www.wikihow.com/Perform-Self-Hypnosis)
I can tell you this. When I participate in the process of hypnosis either alone or with a trusted therapist, I experience a deep, deep feeling of safety and deep, deep healing and respect for my deepest self.
It is a very loving and healing process. I hope it helps.
And good for you for going after what you need. Simply addressing stress, which hypnosis is wonderful for, will be such a help to you. But you can use it for any positive change to your mind.
love,
Hops
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That is what has happened this weekend and having to fake all the time is killing me.
That's why I don't believe in the adage "fake it till you make it"
because in essence .... in reality, that's a kind of illusion or self-deception -- and does more harm than truth of where one is really at.
Hypnosis can birth "Avoidance" ....... I say this because I watched my friend slide downhill during and after engaging in the process of hypnosis, though at the time I had no knowledge of the subject.
My friend would just go into a trance like state ......... which culminated in a condition of tiredness and fatigue ......... and dissociation.
She only wanted to give up smoking!! She was fine previously!
Please be careful Lupita, with regard to entering into Self-Hypnosis ......... especially, as you are not with a Therapist at present, so you would be all on your own with the process etc.
Love,
Leah
PS. I just read your other thread and I am so glad that you found yesterday's link helpful ... http://en.bibleinfo.com/topics/topic.html?id=11 (http://en.bibleinfo.com/topics/topic.html?id=11)
I have printed a copy and pinned it to my kitchen notice board.
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Lupita,
You know better than to rely on anecdotal evidence or conjecture.
I am sure the book will help you in your decision.
love,
Hops
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Hey Hop, Thanks. I will start going to a group next Monday from 6:30 PM to 8:00 PM on meditation and stress reduction for a donnation only. I plan to give aproximately ten dollars. I guess that would be appropriate. I do not know.
Also, the councelor that contacted me with this group accepted to see me one time for $50.00 and maybe one more. He said that when I live his office I will have CDs and books to work and he said that he charges $225.00 per session but I will pay 50 for one time and he said that maybe he will see me once more just to get me started. Then we will go from there. He does not want to work for that amount. He just will get me strated one or two sessions plus CDs and books plus contact me with this group for meditaion and stress reduction.
That is something!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well.......... Thank you Hopsy Wopsy!!!!!! :)
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Oh thanks goodness..... you found something.
So glad, Lupita.
Lighter
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You are so welcome (((((((((((((Lupita))))))))))))).
So so so proud of you.
lots of love,
Hops
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Another thread that has come to an end.
Went to that councelor that agree to see me once for $50.00 and get me started in the program of stress reduction. It was the day of my son graduation recital. I got there very ungry and sad. After one hour of crying, whyning, complaining in front of him, he said:
"Your mother died today. You do not have a mother."
When I protested, he said, why do you still want to be connected to your mother?
I did not know how to answer.
Then we did one meditation session and gave me CDs that by the way they are very good. You really really relax by guided meditation. And since I am a beguiner, I cannot do anything but guided.
Then he gave me the refference of another place where they can help me regularly for $25.00 which is affordable for me. I called them and they will see me on june 24.
Then he gave me an e mail of a meditation instructor who works with groups for a donation. That is on Mondays and I started yesterday. I liked it a lot.
When I left his office I was smiling for the first time in a long long time. I enjoyed my son's concert. For the first time the constant pain stopped for a few hours.
My son got many applauses and when he finished playing he said that his mother was the bigest inspiration for him and pointed towards me. Everybody yelled and applauded. I was about to cry, but felt so good that I did not.
This thread has come to an end too. GF broke up with my son. What a coincidence that I do not have a job and my son does not have a girlfriend. But, he does not know what kind of a problem he has gotten rid off.
He is devastated, but I believe that he is better with out her. She is transfering from a community college to the University where my son is going to strat his PHD. He went from a bachelor degree to a PHD program. He is only 22 and got a job in research at the cancer hospital, pays very little but it will look great in his resume. She thinks that she is going to have a thousand men lining up to court her at the university, or so I think. She has no idea how difficult is to get a good man, devoted to Christ, with a clear mind and honest, plus, college graduated, entering a PHD.
When my son lost his car, problems strated. She hadto drive instead of him, and she does not like to do things for others, she acostumed to being served since her mother does everything for her.
I am a little sad, my son blames me a little for the problem, but I was only part of the problem not the problem.
In the long run, this is good for him. I pray everyday that he finds a woman hones, woth clear mind, centered, who has insight and a good education, and faith in God, and For Crist Sakes, Somebody who wants to be friends with me!
Although I have hopes that they do not get back together, it is probable that they will. But he will know that she is capable to cut him off at her convenience, everytime that she things she can get something better, hopefully, at this point he has found out that they are not right ofr each other.
I told him, next time, do not introduce her to me until you have a serious relationship with prospective marriage, I do not want to be involved in the drama od poppy love. It made me very stressed. And the GFM almost killed me.
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Dear (((((((((( Lupita ))))))))))))
I sit here with eyes filled up with tears, of joy, for you, and for prayers that HAVE been answered - God has heard your prayers and they have been, are being, answered.
And just thinking of your new counsellor's words;
"Your mother died today. You do not have a mother."
When I protested, he said, why do you still want to be connected to your mother?
Those words have such a big impact - and they are so true! It is in the DETACHING that one becomes truly FREE. In my own mother experience.
I have much work to do at present - will post again later on.
Thinking of you.
God Bless You.
Love, Leah
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What a shock to hear those words.....
"You have no mother.... your mother died today."
In your heart.... I think they need to be true so you can free yourself from your FOO.
Very interesting way for the T to approach that concept.
I'm so glad you felt some relief from the pain..... it really is possible to escape, Lupe.
2 steps forward.... 1 step back.
As for GF and your son..... that may not be over yet, so don't get your heart set on it.
Let us know what your meditation looks like..... are you walking down 1000 white steps to the beach or some other excercise like that?
Lighter
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Hi Lea and Lighter, thank you so much for your empathy. That is empathy. When you feel sorry for the suffering of others and you feel happy for the imprvemnet of others.
Difficult to experience when you do not recieve it almost all your life.
Thank you for your words of encouragement.
About the meditation, I am going to start a thread on that. Thank you foe asking.
Love to you all.
Hopalong, your actions are giving results. Thanks! I enjoyed my son's concert, it was like God created it that way so I could enjoy my son's concert, for the first time in a long time I was smiling.
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Lupita, remember to have empathy for your son. As you talk to him try to imagine what it is like to be him. I know you are relieved that GF is gone but you wrote that he is devastated. As you talk to him about his situation, keep in mind that his heart is broken and that he feels vulnerable because of it and that he might be mindful that you do not hurt for him.
I told him, next time, do not introduce her to me until you have a serious relationship with prospective marriage, I do not want to be involved in the drama od poppy love. It made me very stressed. And the GFM almost killed me.
My heart is always with you and it is out of my concern for you and your interest in having a close relationship with your son that I point out that when you refer to his girlfriends and loving relationships be careful about the words you chose. "Puppy love" has a little edge to it. It could be perceived as demeaning and I know you don't want to belittle your son. Remember that while he is your little boy he has become a young man. Even though GF and GFM made your life miserable, in order to strengthen your relationship with your son you must keep your criticism of his girlfriends to yourself or share them here with your friends but do your best to not share them with him. It will tend to push him away.
I say this out of love and concern for your and your love of your son.
your friend - shame slayer