Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Certain Hope on June 09, 2008, 08:01:37 AM
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Not sure whether or not I posted this before on the board, but... since I'm recovering from perfectionistic tendancies - I'm not going to search the depths to find out :D
This is an important topic to me personally, and I'm looking forward to examining it more closely in the days to come.
Are You a Perfectionist?
By Dr. Bill Gaultiere
Take the following short survey to help you see to what extent you may have perfectionistic tendencies.
For each question below answer “yes” if it’s generally true of you and “no” if it’s generally not true of you.
Five or more yes answers suggest a significant problem with perfectionism.
(This is a screening test. For an accurate diagnoses of depression or another mental disorder you need to an in person consultation with a health professional.)
I often think that I should've done better than I did.
I tend to put things off if I don’t have the time to do them perfectly.
I’m afraid to fail when working on an important project.
I strive to impress others with my best qualities or accomplishments.
I think less of myself if I repeat a mistake.
I strive to maintain control of my emotions at all times.
I get upset when things don’t go as planned.
I am often disappointed in the quality of other people’s work.
I feel that my standards couldn't be too high.
I’m afraid that people will think less of me if I fail.
I’m constantly trying to improve myself.
I’m unhappy if anything I do is considered average.
My home and office need to be clean and orderly always.
I feel inferior to others who are more intelligent, attractive, or successful than I.
I must look my very best whenever I’m out in public.
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I could check off all but the final four questions.
I never thought of myself as a perfectionist, only that I become terribly annoying when my shadow pops out under stress.
I'm very picky at times.... I can see childish bahavior I KNOW I shouldn't be coming up with. Usually I do this around my mother and sister..... my first husband on one occassion I can remember.
I think of this as my shadow side.... Meyers Briggs stuff.
A friend told me she sees her father's perfectionism in me. :shock:
I laughed.... as the last 4 questions on your list don't have a thing to do with me and I typically think of those things when I think of perfectionists.
She said that her father starts projects then can't finish them....
he makes a mess and can't put a bowe on things, because they aren't perfect.
He can't finish bc things aren't perfect.... and that is me.
I didn't get upset at her.... I learned something about myself, my strengths and my weaknesses.
Is your desk and personal space always neat, Carolyn?
Mine is not.
Lighter
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Hi, Lighter,
About the only one with which I haven't struggled is the very last question, about always needing to look your best out in public.
Personal physical/exterior stuff - clothing, accessories, etc - has never been my thing.
Cleanliness, neatness, yes... but not the "can't have a hair out of place" outlook.
(I have an aversion to hair spray.. lol)
Yeah, my desk and personal space do still bug me if they're not always neat... but I'm a whole lot more relaxed about it than I used to be.
At one time, I was absolutely a compulsive straightener/tidier/cleaner.
Mostly, I think that I just wore myself out with trying to maintain such a high level of orderliness.
Also, I have felt driven to gather every detail where information was concerned... to cover every contingency and to explain each iota in such detail that the underlying premise/big picture was often lost... at least to me.
Calling a halt to all of that detailing and explaining has freed me up alot!
But nit picking is still an almost irresistable urge, at times.... when tired or under stress.
I guess that's just an instinctive method of trying to regain control when everything feels topsy turvy?
Oh, I'm more inclined to procrastinate rather than start-and-not-finish... but both are examples of a fear of failure, I think.
For a perfectionist, anything less than ideal IS a failure. Very painful.
It's interesting to me that two of my daughters have many of these same characteristics... and yet one of them is a total slob re: her personal space.
I don't say much about it, other than the occasional expression of terror/ remark re: having to run the gauntlet when entering her room.
I just figure that's her way of balancing out some of her own internal struggles and I know that she places enough pressure on herself about other stuff without me insisting that she become a neat-freak.
My other daughter and my son appear to be free of all such compulsions and... I have no clue why.
Intrigues me, though.
Carolyn
P.S.
My own eye-opening,classic example of this obsessive compulsion is watching my mother use white-out on her own grocery list... (just one of many such examples).
Although I do notice now that she is apparently able to write to me without white-out. Guess she figures I'm used to mistakes and won't care... lol.
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Consider the following questions for yourself, toward an accurate diagnosis of whether or not you struggle with this trait.
Do I ever get angry at myself -- and take more than a day to feel good about myself again?
Do I feel embarrassed when it turns out I am wrong about something?
Do I try to cover up my blunders with lies or by redirecting the focus off of myself?
Do I get defensive when someone indicates I'm not a perfectly good person?
Do I blame others even when I am responsible?
Do I believe that if people get to know me well enough, they won't like me any more?
Do I examine my conscience only rarely?
When I realize I have sinned, do I doubt that God forgives me?
When a person gets angry at me, do I feel like dirt?
Do I have only a few friends, and is it because I'm protecting myself from getting hurt?
Do I deal with pain by drinking or using some other form of getting high?
Is this quiz making me feel uncomfortable?
Excerpted from: http://mymiscellanies.blogspot.com/2006/01/and-deliver-us-from-perfectionism-how.html (http://mymiscellanies.blogspot.com/2006/01/and-deliver-us-from-perfectionism-how.html)
Clearly the obvious motivation is simply pride - a desire to exalt myself and my ideals and my standards as equal to God's, or perhaps even above God's. Perfectionism is ultimately all about me - order in my world, organization of my stuff, control of my environment.
It took time, and the change was gradual. But it was not natural. I had to identify that tendency and work to kill it, replacing it with patience, love, tenderness, forgiveness, and the spiritual gifting of flexibility - rolling with the providential punches. Over time, folded laundry that sat for more than a day didn't bother me so much; dirty clothes that lay in a corner for more than a day didn't eat away at me so much; the toilet paper being installed to hang under rather than over was not an issue (though it is still difficult to find in the dark).
Wow, I can really identify with this Rob Wilkerson.
Excited to read some more of his blog!
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For me, shame makes me cover myself, every square inch, so no criticism will get in. I can't control it, but I am trying and THAT is the problem.
I try to armor myself by being "good" . I want to keep away other's anger b/c then I feel so very badly about myself. I am frantically trying to control the outside. I am tired and sick b/c of it.
I have to let myself "be" and SEE what happens IF I don't try to control, if I am just "quiet" inside.
I will try that,today, and see what happens, if I am still here(fear of anniliahtion----lol). Ami
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You can do it, Ami!
I am excited for you and praying for your strengthening with courage.
There've been times when I could feel my ears turning into beets and the heat spreading down my neck... like if I had to speak in public... but just the act of following through and then realizing that I'd survived :o... changed me.
It's still not easy, but with practice, I know that you can become less self-conscious.
Carolyn
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Dear Carolyn,
LOL...I was reading this thread thinking to myself I love Carolyn and I am happy to see her posting threads, especially because you have been quiet lately, but also because you raise good topics, therefore, I really want to take my time on your posts and read and respond. However, my head is pounding this am. I have been withdrawing from nicotine, my body feels strange, yet I still want to be a perfectionist and respond well, but I have decided that if I respond, and do not make sense, then well that is the best I can do and I know you will accept me even if I am a little out of it.
For the past year I have been quitting on and off again smoking...this time I really can feel the release of the obsession, I can feel the grace in my thinking. I have been working so hard to get here...
Perhaps I will start a thread on it....I know that Amber will understand.
Anyway here is a psalm that fits this thread:
Psalm 44: 15-16
My dishonor is continually before me, And the shame of my face has covered me, Because of the voice of him who reproaches and reviles, Because of the enemy and the avenger.
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nope
perfectionists need closure on things, and for Truth to be a single truth, and I don't need that.
Actually, all humans (part of our nature) need closure, and God IS a single truth...
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Hi Carolyn,
No. Don't think I'm a perfectionist. What I am is a systems builder. It may be a cousin to perfectionism, but I can't explain it at this late hour.
tt
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Thank you all for your replies!
Lise, if and when you're ready to do a thread re: your non-smoking challenges, I am interested in participating.
Since I'm still using those nic lozenges, I'm still hooked in that way - - and could surely use some help, too!
Bean, I know many folks who are not perfectionists and yet they believe in one truth... "THE" Truth (The Way, and The Life) - Jesus Christ.
They believe not because they need it to be so, but because it simply IS so.
And no, that is not my opinion... it's fact.
Tt, I'd like to hear more about what it means to be systems builder... and how that differs from perfectionism.
I'm thinking it has to do with order and a building-blocks sort of process, following a sequential order of assembly...
but I dunno.
Love,
Carolyn
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How wonderful to come on board and see the name of my beloved, such a blessing to a somewhat tired and weary heart, today.
It was Jesus himself who spoke and said "I AM the Way, the Truth, and the Life" (John 14:6)
and you know, this was written as foretold thousands of years previously in Genesis 18:19 ... "For I have chosen him, so that he will direct his children and his household after him to keep the way of the LORD by doing what is right and just, so that the LORD will bring about for Abraham what he has promised him."
and also in Ezekiel 18:5 "Suppose there is a righteous man who does what is just and right."
...... and His name is Jesus Christ.
Love to ((((((( everyone ))))))) Leah
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Here is some more on the topic of perfectionism, from Dr. Bill Gautiere ~
Step Out of the Performance Trap
Perfectionists need to learn is to step out of the performance trap. Ironically, many perfectionists try so hard to earn love and acceptance from others by being outstanding and yet end up feeling rejected and inadequate. For instance, consider Kristen's story. She's the mother of three children and wife of a successful CEO. She's in her mid 40's, but looking at her you'd think she were 29 and spent most of her time at the health club and the beach. She's attractive, thin, sports a tan, and wears a bright smile. She and her kids seem to always look like they stepped out of a catalogue. And usually when you see them they're on their way to an activity. Kristen took a leadership role in all their activities: Room Mom in all three kids classes, teaching Sunday school, Scout Master for the local Boy Scout and Girl Scout troops, and assistant soccer coach. And she loves to gather her friends and her kid's friends in her immaculate home. Other Moms get tired just hearing about all she's doing, but Kristen just keeps going.
No one would argue that Kristen is impressive and successful. Yet, inside she feels empty. Sitting on the couch in my office she cried, "It isn't enough. Nobody really loves me." I replied, "I think your family and friends would love you if they knew you. It's time that you shared your true self with them. Don't try to impress them so much. Just be yourself, and share some of your struggles and your inner feelings."
What Kristen learned was that she wouldn't feel loved and accepted by her family and close friends until they knew how she felt inside. She wasn't the seemingly perfect person people saw on the outside. Indeed, she was a high performer and a good person, but she also was an imperfect Christian woman, a wife with emotional needs, and a mother who struggled with her kids at times like any other mother. In addition to being more honest, she had to start putting limits on her activities and not worry so much about her accomplishments and her appearance. Instead she started paying more attention to her inner self and put more priority on developing her relationships.
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I'm not taking it personally, Bean.
I used to feel the same way... about God and about the people who claim to represent Him.
Then I met some who are the real deal and realized that God doesn't exclude anyone...
it's people who choose to exclude Him.
Love,
Carolyn
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My beliefs are my beliefs. I often see perfectionism tied closely with a Christian God.
bean
Hi Bean,
I just want to share that I do know what you mean, say, because I was so spiritually abused I could not think straight, and yes I admit that I was in despair for a short while, as I was so upset. After I finally managed to dare divorce my husband, being so hurt etc., I declared that I would never set foot inside a church again.
But, that was then, and this is now, thank goodness!
My ex husband was, sadly, very much black and white, and especially with his personal faith and walk with Christianity, and yes, very much a perfectionist.
However, truly, I was not a perfectionist (and so I was very much an irritant to my exh), and I do know of countless others who are not perfectionist in their walk with Christianity, but then, I also know others who are.
I tend to think that it is getting the right balance within oneself, which is possible, if one is not subjected to an overbearing environment, as I have discovered for myself.
So I really do resonate with what you have shared.
Love, Leah
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Perfectionism is NOT in my makeup. The reason for that is I was required to be the perfect little Chrisitan growing up and it was unobtainable so I guess I just quit trying. In fact, I went just the opposite in many ways. Even to this day at age 48 the pendulum swings in complete opposite of what my parents want. I am letting my 17 year old get a tatoo....my parents are mortified. I don't care if someone drinks - they do. My mom tried to dress me for so many years...............a little clone of her. Now I make sure I look nothing like her. She hates denim - I wear it all the time.
I consider perfectionism as HER thing so I don't do it...
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Bean, I understand... thanks for sharing.
I'm no debater and you've already said that you don't care to debate, so... again, thanks for clarifying!
Kelly, I hear you. Me, too! Although I clung to it for about 10 years, perfectionism began to wear off around the time of my 3rd child, when I realized that I was running myself ragged for zero pay-off (and missing alot, to boot!) From that point on, recovery became much easier as I'd watch my mother continue to stress over shallow, insignificant details while her grandchildren were growing up right in front of her eyes.
Thanks!
Love,
Carolyn
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Dear Bean, Carolyn and others,
I hear you...not taking anything personal -- your views are respected.
For me, I am not attached to the material in that I could care less about fashion, cars, furniture, stuff, status, material possessions. That stuff is NOT my passion, although it used to be and I used to care very much about material comforts. Somewhere along the lines I gave that stuff up as I realized that it did not fill the void, nor did it ever really make me that happy. I love simplicity, it allows for me to enjoy nature more and to love and live more fully -- The less I have the more I have.
If anyone was to ask me who my favorite hero in life is I would say, besides Christ, St. Teresa of Avila.
It is my choice to be single, I never want to marry. Christ is my beloved there is not a man that can hold a candle to the way He fires my heart with love for Him. That is not to say that there are not men who are wonderful and very Christlike, it is just to say for me that I am happy and know who my spouse is.
Then there is my desire to grow....Lord knows how much I need it. Just this morning I awoke and prayed a full rosary. Then I sat on the long bus to work and meditated on my lack of mercy and lack of compassion as well as my righteous indignation. I prayed the litany of humility 4 times asking God to take away my desire to be esteemed, loved, extolled, consulted etc., furthing asking God to deliver me from fear of rejection, slander, and selfishness. I prayed several times that God would make everyone in the world more loved and better than me and that others would be preferred to me over all things in all situations. By the time I finished this mediation I was feeling a state of peace that was wonderful yet fully grounded in reality.
My only desire is to grow spiritually, if that means suffering for the sake of righteousness, then OK. It means losing all so that I can gain heaven, well then OK.
Not all are called to this "way" this is my path...My path is a path that desires to love God above all else (even though I tend to still love myself above all else), if you only knew what God has saved me from and how He has helped me time and time again, then my love for God would not be an issue for anyone.
There is a perfect mark that we are supposed to hit, anything less is called sin which is what separates man from God....Lord knows I gotta ways to go to being perfect (understatement)....but, at least I got something to shoot for.
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The Way of Perfection by St. Teresa of Avila (Catholic Saint)
Although St. Teresa of Avila lived and wrote almost four centuries ago, her superbly inspiring classic on the practice of prayer is as fresh and meaningful today as it was when she first wrote it. The Way of Perfection is a practical guide to prayer setting forth the Saint's counsels and directives for the attainment of spiritual perfection.
Through the entire work there runs the author's desire to teach a deep and lasting love of prayer beginning with a treatment of the three essentials of the prayerfully life -- fraternal love, detachment from created things, and true humility. St. Teresa's counsels on these are not only the fruit of lofty mental speculation, but of mature practical experience. The next section develops these ideas and brings the reader directly to the subjects of prayer and contemplation. St. Teresa then gives various maxims for the practice of prayer and leads up to the topic which occupies the balance of the book -- a detailed and inspiring commentary on the Lord's Prayer.
Of all St. Teresa's writings, The Way of Perfection is the most easily understood. Although it is a work of sublime mystical beauty, its outstanding hallmark is its simplicity which instructs, exhorts, and inspires all those who are seeking a more perfect way of life.
"I shall speak of nothing of which I have no experience, either in my own life or in observation of others, or which the Lord has not taught me in prayer." -- Prologue
Almost four centuries have passed since St. Teresa of Avila, the great Spanish mystic and reformer, committed to writing the experiences which brought her to the highest degree of sanctity. Her search for, and eventual union with, God have been recorded in her own world-renowned writings -- the autobiographical Life, the celebrated masterpiece Interior Castle and The Way of Perfection -- as well as in the other numerous works which flowed from her pen while she lived.
The Way of Perfection was written during the height of controversy which raged over the reforms St. Teresa enacted within the Carmelite Order. Its specific purpose was to serve as a guide in the practice of prayer and it sets forth her counsels and directives for the attainment of spiritual perfection through prayer. It was composed by St. Teresa at the express command of her superiors, and was written during the late hours in order not to interfere with the day's already crowded schedule.
Without doubt it fulfills the tribute given all St. Teresa's works by E. Allison Peers, the outstanding authority on her writings: "Work of a sublime beauty bearing the ineffaceable hallmark of genius."
http://www.franciscan-sfo.org/Avila/WofP1.htm
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Thank you for sharing so much of yourself once again, Lise.
Some day, I hope to be able to respond to you appropriately...
but today is not that day.
Love,
Carolyn
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No worries...I love you Carolyn.
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More from Dr. Gauthiere ~
Strive for Excellence, Not Perfection
Don't misunderstand me by thinking that I encouraged Kristen to settle for laziness and mediocrity. Quite the contrary, I encouraged her to strive for excellence. But first she needed to be free to be herself and to achieve more balance in her life between work and play, accomplishments and relationships. This enabled her not only to feel better about herself, but also to focus on what was most important to her and to her family. She decided to put most of her energy into her home life and into being an excellent Sunday School teacher and Room Mom and in doing so she had more to be proud of then ever before. The key to her success was that she focused on doing an excellent job in what was most important to her.
Focus. Perfectionists often have great trouble with focusing on priorities. They need to learn not to obsess about minor details, not to get compulsive about things that are irrelevant or of secondary importance, but to instead focus on putting their heart into the things that are most important. By taking a step back from her life to think about her activity level and her lifestyle and then to reprioritize Kristen was able to make some adjustments. She learned to spend less time dressing herself and her kids and more time relaxing and talking with them at the dinner table. She decided that being Scout Master and Assistant Soccer coach weren't as important to her as being involved in her church and her kids' school.
If you're a perfectionist, you too can defeat perfectionism before it defeats you. By being honest about who you really are and focusing on what's most important to you you'll find that you enjoy yourself more and achieve more than ever! Here are ten steps to help you get there.
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Step 1 in the process of Defeating Perfectionism.... With Excellence!
Take a realistic look at how you're living and how you relate to others and yourself.
Think and pray about the results of the Perfectionism survey above.
(You might need to ask a friend to offer an objective opinion on this.)
Set a goal to rebalance or reprioritize your life accordingly and get someone to hold you accountable to changing.
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Yes, Bean... and then, the more they screw up, the angrier they get.
When this gets really malignant is when they start punishing you for not screwing up, by suggesting all manner of ways you might have done (whatever) more perfectly.
Or - - (this is a real cutie) - they come behind you and re-do your work the way they think it shoulda been done in the first place, as though to erase you from the picture. That one seems to be an old favorite, from my experience.
Now I screw up regularly just to prove to myself it's OK
lol... yeah. That works for me! :)
Carolyn
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Step 2 in the process of Defeating Perfectionism.... With Excellence!
Admit that you're imperfect and be honest with those you trust about your struggles and needs.
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I see that I am not owning my shame and so I want the outside to see me a certain way so *I* can be reassured that I really am NOT bad.
It stems from I DO see myself as bad. I do feel worthless, valueless, etc. I SO want to be free of this and don't know how to get there,myself , so I ask the outside (people) to reassure me over and over that I REALLY am "good".
I am seeing that I must go w/in and really face my shame, look at it, mull it over, not be so afraid of it. It is a job I have not wanted to do.
I have looked outside for what is inside. Inside is the key and I am looking in and getting ready to go forward. Ami
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Step 2 in the process of Defeating Perfectionism.... With Excellence!
Admit that you're imperfect and be honest with those you trust about your struggles and needs.
For me admitting that I am imperfect means admitting that I am selfish...that the person I care the most about is me.
So, in order to reverse that thinking...I need to take action and start doing things for others without absolutely NO reward, return, interest etc. for myself...a pure act of selfless sacrifice of time....our time is what is most valuable in life.
This time spent caring about others is like corrective spiritual surgery for the self-centered part of my brain.
Lise
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Admitting that I'm not perfect isn't the trouble, so much. In fact, I've had to stop admitting it so much, because I was constantly saying, "I'm sorry",
but I guess that's what codependent's often do. People pleasers, at least.
Selfishness is a major part of it, especially here at home, with my husband and even kids, to a smaller extent.
When I start tallying up what I do compared to x,y, or z... there comes trouble.
Scorekeeping is always bad news.
Step #2 said: Admit that you're imperfect and be honest with those you trust about your struggles and needs[/i]
It's being honest, transparent about struggles and needs that's really tough for me.
Maybe not even struggles so much as needs.
I need more help, more feedback, more attention even, maybe, than I care to admit, at times... because I'm never quite sure that it's okay to ask.
So I'm working on identifying and expressing those needs, which isn't so easy to begin with, when you're used to feeling like it's up to you to be able to do it all.
Carolyn
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It's being honest, transparent about struggles and needs that's really tough for me.
Maybe not even struggles so much as needs.
I need more help, more feedback, more attention even, maybe, than I care to admit, at times... because I'm never quite sure that it's okay to ask.
So I'm working on identifying and expressing those needs, which isn't so easy to begin with, when you're used to feeling like it's up to you to be able to do it all.
Carolyn
This is so true for me as well. For years it was hard for me to identify my needs, they were so buried, so split off from my awareness. The thoughts that preceded my needs were the voices of my mom, the shaming silence of her ignoring and neglecting my needs.
How, and why, I was able to suddenly find my voice and give expression to my needs is beyond me in that I think that Christ was a huge factor...ya think :wink:?
Anyway, I hear you on the codependency people pleaser stuff too.
Carolyn, I entered recovery from my childhood when I was 17...at the age of 22 I was attending ACA meetings, going to 12 step groups and working with a therapist to be fully real and fully healed. Yet, I fell many times, it was just in my late thirties that I finally saw that it was OK for me to have needs and to express them.
We grow and heal at different paces and in different ways.
From what I know of you I would not guess that struggling to be real about struggles is an issue for you.
One thing I can say, that may or may not help, is that you have such a wonderful gentleness about you, even when you are setting limits and being real about what it is you need.
Lise
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(((((((Lise))))))) thank you.
At times, there are many feelings swirling around in me which are far from gentle...
but there's a stopper in me that won't usually allow it to escape.
Drinking used to loosen that cork...
now sobriety and a bit more common sense holds it in, for the most part.
But still, the whirlwind does spring up at times... so I guess it's just a blessing that I'm not too emotive... lol... ugh.
Thank you for telling me about your progression of healing, too. You may have said so before, but this time it sunk in.
You're way ahead of me.
I've sat in on a form of joint counseling sessions with two ex-husbands, but this board is the only real help I've ever received for myself.
One counselor told me that I should have had all sorts of issues with my kids' dad... and the fact that I didn't was the biggest problem...
but I didn't have a clue what he meant. My mother had so many issues with the human race in general, that I grew up bound and determined to make myself content and agreeable no matter what. And so I did. Or so it seemed.
First place I ever heard that it was okay to want to be happy was from my current husband...
and from Hops, here on the board.
I used to hate it when she'd tell me that... because I was so set on doing everything the hard way.
So strange to think back on it.
Glad that's over... 'nuf of that!!
I love you.
Carolyn
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Steps 3 and 4 go hand in hand, I think:
3. Be balanced. You're a human being, not a human doing. There is more to life than what you can accomplish. Family, friends, and fun are important too.
4. Step out of the performance trap by separating personhood from performance.
You (and others) are loveable and valuable for who you are, with your unique personality, gifts, dreams, feelings, experiences.
Hold your head high and develop good self-esteem!
These are the most difficult for me to put into practical application. It's gotten alot easier, but still - when I have what I consider an "unproductive" day, I tend to think less of myself... and taking a vacation is still more of a chore than a pleasure, because it's work to try to relax!
Carolyn
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These are the most difficult for me to put into practical application. It's gotten alot easier, but still - when I have what I consider an "unproductive" day, I tend to think less of myself... and taking a vacation is still more of a chore than a pleasure, because it's work to try to relax!
Carolyn
Hi Carolyn,
Wow...me too. On days when I get very little done I can be hard on myself, which only causes more stifling of my inner child - old tapes.
Lise
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Yeah. I'm looking for that perfect man.
Sigh. It's not going too well.
Joking aside, I used to be one in my twenties. Then somehow -- maybe through group therapy? I'm guessing -- I stopped trying to meet the standard.
And now there is nothing but chaos -- so watch out if you decide to reform!
Really, I'm serious. I was going to list 3 accomplishments on that other thread as taking out the garbage, cleaning up my bedroom (almost done) and changing the cat litter.
I know that sounds like I'm being funny, and I am a little, but really, not. My mother did not keep house. I mean, she just didn't keep house. Our house looked worse than any of those you see on the tv reality shows. She never cleaned, she never vacuumed, we never knew whether the dishes in the DW were dirty or clean. (Since she was one of those who washed the dishes before she put them in, they often were sort of both.)
Things stayed wherever they landed, sometimes for years. (I am NOT kidding.) You couldn't get to our dining room table (where we ate our meals, kitchen had a table but not very big). Every night I'd have to somehow clean up everything that was there so we could eat.
When my mom bought groceries, she'd just bring the bags in and leave them on the floor. They'd stay there until they were empty. (So yes, if she bought more, the new ones would just be added to the old ones.)
Our kitchen should have been condemned.
After my brother was hurt there were piles of his laundry lying all around.
My dad got several papers. He never picked them up; he would yell and scream at us and we would pick them up; back in those days no one had heard of recycling except the local boy scouts who had a "paper" drive 1-2 times a year. Our papers would accumulate; then when the drive came along my dad would lock us in the basement and make us tie up HIS papers.
There was no structure, no nothing. It was too embarrassing to have someone over, so I never did. We only rarely had company -- every several years, perhaps when my mom's sister came to visit. (Then, of course, there would be a mad scramble to clean up.) Never any neighbors or anything.
This is an example of how things were upside down in my family -- we kids were made to clean up after our parents. In all of this mess my dad's big "thing" was having the carpeted stairs vacuumed, and he would fly into rages, yelling at us (me) to vacuum them.
We, especially me (from my point of view!) would get caught in this battle between my parents. My mom did nothing and instead of yelling at her to clean up her act, my dad yelled at us and expected us to do it. Of course I think kids should have chores and responsibilities around the house, but this was far beyond that. The analogy would be if he'd made us go out and get jobs to support the family because he'd decided not to. (My dad was a very hard worker.)
As a result, I never learned "order" skills and cleaning skills. It seems like an elusive dream to me to have a really clean house (townhouse). I'm a total right-brained person to begin with, so organizing things is anathema to me, and this just makes it harder. I seem to have this deeply ingrained visible picture of "mess," and that's what feels comfortable to me.
I've been doing very well in the place where I live now, but I know it's not sparkling clean like many homes (it's clean, it just gets a little cluttered; there is no counter space, not much kitchen space, storage space, no basement or big closet, and the kitchen is teeny-tiny -- made for someone who only microwaves. You can stand in it and reach everything. Two people wouldn't fit, really. Not enough room to roll out a pie crust or put a cookie sheet on the counter.)
Anyway, a "perfect" house/home seems like an elusive dream to me. But it's looking pretty good! I just don't know how to get that sparkle. (I do -- it's called cleaning lady, but can't afford one.)
...and my dad was a total perfectionist with us. Both parents, really, if you count their standards for manners and behavior. If we got a 98 on our report card, my dad would rant and rave and belittle us and want to know why we didn't get a 99. (My dad had straight A's all the way through school and college, so perhaps he didn't understand this.)
When I made 2nd in allstate orchestra on my instrument -- which was a tremendous achievement -- my dad yelled and asked me if I couldn't have tried "1/8th harder" (there were 8 instruments in this section) and come in first. Of course, that doesn't even make sense! The math doesn't make sense.
And the manners and social behavior -- yikes! The stories I could tell you. Endless. Manners are manners and I'm all for politeness and respect, but when I tell some of my stories to people they are sort of incredulous.
So, there was an expectation of perfection that of course, I/we could never live up to. And what an irony, considering the mess (physical and emotional) we lived in. Underneath I think I perceived that inconsistency, but as a kid you don't have full access to your feelings. And in our family they were so squelched, anyway, that they were all locked away.
...thus, when I moved into my first apartment and out on my own, I tried and tried and tried to be perfect ... at home, at work, everything. But of course I couldn't be.
It's funny. One of the things about my group therapy experience that I always remember is how I came the first night (and many after) and looked very well put together. (Let me make it clear: I am not a well-put-together looking kind of person. I do not do that neat, crisp thing well.) At that point in my life I took a lot of pains to look good: hair, make-up, etc.
As I started to heal in group, I started to let the veil drop. I don't think the appearance thing was a total mask, but it must have been one in part. It hasn't been until this winter, after the N experience, that I've ever gone back. Interestingly enough, the one thing that really helped me heal from him was taking good care of my appearance. I'm not an appearance-oriented person at all. But this time it really helped. My girlfriend here at work (the cancer survivor) is enormously talented with hair and make-up -- unbelievable! -- so she's been, shall we say, transforming me. I never understood how taking pains with your appearance could be so ... rewarding! I wasn't brought up this way. (My mom was beautiful but she didn't do this either; she walked around in horrid clothes, ripped pants held together by safety pins)
Oh well, quite the long ramble about my journey with perfection. In any case, it used to be a real struggle but I gave it up years ago. If you possibly can, I recommend it! Oddly enough, you get control over your life by letting all control go. So perfectionism can really stand in the way.
Oh -- and should I talk about musical perfection? Yikes! It's why I never play my instrument any more.
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Oddly enough, you get control over your life by letting all control go. So perfectionism can really stand in the way.
Oh -- and should I talk about musical perfection? Yikes! It's why I never play my instrument any more.
LilyCat... I'm so sorry your father's behavior killed your joy for playing your instrument.
What did you play?
And..... your comment about giving up control, external, in order to gain control, internal.... BIG.
Lighter
ps.... your post pinged my heart as I saw glimpses of people and know, myself.... much empathy to you.
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Lily and lighter
I was just thinking about the cessation of my piano playing (and song writing).
It was the N, who was SO impressed at the beginning (when we met) who later would walk out of the house if I played. I began to use earphones with my piano keyboard, but he said he 'could still hear the keys being used and with no sound it was so stupid'.
And yes, perfectionism, yet you've heard composers bulding a song. It's hit and miss.
It sits here and I see it every day and only dust it on cleaning day.
Izzy
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Thanks, ladies.
...I played (play) the french horn (we just call it the horn). It was my major in college. I studied privately in New York with a major player for several years afterward. That was incredible!
My dad didn't stop me from playing it, that was just a painful experience. The perfection part comes from it being such a difficult and treacherous instrument, and the fact that I can never play what I hear in my head. I am not technically capable of it ... and that discrepancy just drives me insane!
It is one of the very sad things about losing the friendship of the N pastor. He was always
very good with artists, and he was particularly wonderful with/to me during all those years. Church is pretty much the only place I play because frankly, I can't stand conductors. But I love my music director and he's great to play for, just great. We've done so much over the years.
Anyway, the N pastor was always really wonderful when I played, he really was. His appreciation meant so much to me. Once, when I played a very simple but beautiful piece for Good Friday, he came up and told me how much I'd moved him; that he didn't know the horn could be played that way, and that he was going to ask the music director never to have me play before his sermons, because it was so hard for him to preach afterward.
I guess that sounds like N bs, but I really think he meant it. (He did actually make that request.) He always really loved it when I played, or sang. Horn was really a thing with us; it became his favorite instrument. Maybe it reached him where little else did, who knows.
And what are the odds of this? Another (amateur) horn player joined our church. She played very well for someone who hadn't studied it in depth, but she also had "issues," made life very hard for me. The N pastor was very sensitive to that without my even asking him to be or bringing it up. Could he have been all bad? Maybe he wasn't a totally lost cause. (Ok, slap me back into reality now.)
Izzy, dust off those keys and play! You really need to do it. There is nothing like it, there really isn't. I am always such a different (happier) person when I play, and I bet you are too. (I do not mean to imply that you are not happy, but that you probably get much joy from it.)
That is so outrageous that the N wouldn't let you play. It is really stripping the soul to take someone's music away.
...in any case, at least you dust it! (making fun of my own cleaning abilities here...)
Carolyn, I just wanted to let you know that I read several of your posts. You always get to me! And you have been such a warm and gracious friend. I'm going to ponder what you've written for awhile and then hopefully have something relevant to say on Monday. (Don't have email access at home.) And, I totally get the vacation thing. I've never gone on a real one for that very reason. I hate traveling! It means packing and unpacking.
Oh wow, it's so nice here now. It's 5:30 and there's not another soul in the office!
have a good weekend everyone. And I do mean (((((((EVERYONE))))))).
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(((((((((Lily)))))))))) I am sorry to have missed you. Your writing is so engaging... just wish I had read this earlier today!
About music... I'm very amateurish at the piano, but always loved it. NPD-ex would nearly swoon when I'd play... music soothes the savage breast?
And although I've tried to get back into it several times since, it's never been the same.
Now I wonder if he didn't just make his mark on that part of me... as though claiming it for his own, possessing it...
because now it no longer feels like mine. In some weird way, this makes sense to me at the deepest level, and reminds me of his hugs... the sort that made me feel helpless to stop the dissolving of my very being. ack, I must be in a strange mood... but he was a strange critter, as all N's are.
This made me laugh aloud: I do not do that neat, crisp thing well
lol... me, either... but I don't mind trying occasionally. Hard to manage with hair that does the Bozo thing when the relative humidity rises above 50%!
One of my girls is always trying to get me to use the hair straightener, but I don't have the inclination or patience for that.
And this ~ Oddly enough, you get control over your life by letting all control go
...... :D Yes! I get it!
You wise woman, you!
Hope you'll have a great weekend and - once again - see ya on Monday!
Love,
Carolyn
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Have a wonderful weekend Lily!
OH! ANother Twix: )
Lighter
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The pb twix are best.
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Here is step #5 to
Defeat Perfectionism with Excellence :)
(this one's a biggie for me!)
Don't "should" on yourself or others.
Instead of making demands or unreasonable expectations on people and yourself take an attitude of "I would like to"....
"I'm going to work towards." ..... "I'd appreciate it if you could"
Yes!
Carolyn
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Here is step #5 to
Defeat Perfectionism with Excellence :)
(this one's a biggie for me!)
Don't "should" on yourself or others.
Instead of making demands or unreasonable expectations on people and yourself take an attitude of "I would like to"....
"I'm going to work towards." ..... "I'd appreciate it if you could"
Yes!
Carolyn
Just another note on this topic of refraining from "shoulding"...
Kelly has since done an individual thread on the subject, which has brought some issues into greater clarity for me.
Thanks, Kelly!
More and more, I'm seeing the need for firm boundaries - both with others and within myself - to eliminate the "shoulds".
And there's a difference, I think, between how this might be handled within intimate relationships vs. strangers and casual aquaintances.
But I'm just thinking... that it's possible to be too round-about in teaching people how we want to be treated (and re-educating ourselves about how to treat our selves!)
Too vague and fuzzy.
Indirect.
Oblique.
So... I'm making it a point to be quite clear these days.
This is acceptable and this is not... both internally and externally.
And I am seeing how that does not hinder grace a bit...
in fact, it extends grace - - - so much more, in fact, than does avoidance, or expecting folks to be able to read my mind, or any of the other unhealthy methods practiced previously.
Anyhow, my thoughts on this are incomplete at this point, but just wanted to get this much down in print, because this area - in particular - really is my struggle.
Carolyn
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I am a perfectionist. I can answer yes to all the questions except the last one. I'm working very hard on it. It's one of the things that drives my partner nuts. I get caught up in all the little things and lose sight of the big picture often. I get upset when things don't work right or work like I'd planned. I cry if I burn dinner, because I feel like dinner always has to be perfect. One of the first dinners I fixed for my partner at my home, I was so panicked and anxious that I couldn't eat. I was literally shaking because I was so worried about what she would think.
My mother was one of those people for whom nothing was ever good enough. She constantly compared me to my friends and would frequently ask why I didn't do as well in school as they did. She picked out my clothes. She squelched any desires I had that she didn't approve of. She would only allow me to participate in activities that she approved of or that made her look good. To other people she would go on and on about how good I was, and in private, she would berate me for not having been first or not winning a schlarship or not getting 100 on a test.
She would come to my home and pick out each and every imperfection, down to a teeny cobweb in a order. For a woman who's nearly blind, she can certainly see dirt. It's a horrible thing to be insulted in your own home.
I am working really hard on my perfectionistic tendencies. I work on them with my T, and also with my partner, who's very supportive.
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Dear Tayana,
What you've described is so familiar to me and I'm sorry for the burden you're carrying... cuz I know how very heavy it is.
In the first stages of trying to break free from this cell, I often felt more depressed than free... simply because it was so difficult to face the fact that I couldn't do it all "just so". Then there was the slobby phase... lol. I just pretty much let it all hang out and nearly got lost in the pile-ups around my home. Okay, that is a dramatization. A three-inch stack of unsorted paperwork can feel like a mountatin to me, at times... but in time, I’ve been able to retrain and refocus a lot of my perspectives. There’s no better way I know to learn how to be patient with yourself! Wish it could be more pleasant, but practice is what it takes, from my experience.
About dinner... o my, do I hear you!
I'll tell you what changed my entire outlook on it, though...
One day a couple years ago my kids wanted chicken strips. So we got out the deep fryer and began that little project, while I’m mentally scrambling for ideas on potential side-dishes. I remember asking them what they wanted with it... nothing. They were having so much fun helping me get the chicken prepared and breaded, but all I could think about was – what could I put together real quick that would accompany this meal and still have time to clean up the big mess which was quickly accumulating (flour everywhere…)
Oh no, I insisted to them... how about this, or that? No, no, nope, just chicken strips.
And then it dawned on me… how they were laughing and having fun… and flour was getting into all the cracks of the stovetop and all over their clothes… and… it hit me - so what?!!?
And so, for once, I stopped obsessing about the completeness and perfection of the meal and the kitchen and the kids who were very shortly going to be dropping flour particles all over the house…
And I chose to stop making such a chore and a project out of something that was complete in and of itself… simply by virtue of all the fun they were having.
So we just had those silly chicken pieces and I tell you they were the very best meal I have ever eaten.
And that was the end of my quest for perfect dinners/ meals... and the beginning of a whole new healthier appetite and outlook.
Used to be that I couldn't even really enjoy the meals I'd work so hard to prepare.
Not so, anymore!
Funny what can change a lifetime perspective. This was just another "shade" of my mother’s ways that got cast out.. by a determined choice of will. It’s not easy and at first it doesn’t feel natural or right, but it sure is worth the effort.
And yes, having a supportive loved one makes all the difference in the world when you're trying to loosen up and just enjoy the simple things. Best wishes to you!
Love,
Carolyn