Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: CC on September 08, 2003, 12:40:48 PM
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This is primarily in response to a new guest that posted in "have you experience stalking" and requested to expound on absencing. I thought that this subject was worthy of its own thread since it does not refer to stalking.
I read extensively on N forums, but I am not sure what to expect next
Dear Guest,
I am not sure that you can ever expect what's next with an N, because their whole game is about keeping you off guard. Since you posted in the stalking thread, Your N may engage in different tactics than mine have if they have used stalking as a means of control in the past.
I will explain a couple of personal scenarios, in which you may see the results of and may be able to "expect" from your N.
Distancing, in the books, is a tactic that is actually referred to as "withholding love". It is a form of crazy-making and manipulation by the N to get the desired result.
As a young child, I wanted a Barbie doll more than anything. It was forbidden in my house - not because my mother had polital belief about women being exploited, or because we coudn't afford it - but because my mother thought they were sexually suggestive and felt threatened by their sexuality (she infantalized me incessantly to retain her own feelings of youth and beauty). :shock: When I was hit by a car at age 6, I was in the hospital for eight weeks - and a schoolmate's mother brought me a present - the most beautiful Barbie doll I had ever seen. For a moment, I felt a glimmer of hope that since someone else had bought it that I may be able to keep it - but before I could even open the package.. my mother snatched it out of my hands saying "it was a nice gesture but you can't keep it". I wailed and cried. She ignored.
For the next two years, I would try every way I could to get my authoritarian Nmom to let me have a Barbie. Sometimes I would try to reason with her maturely as to why she should let me. Most times though, I would rant, rave, and cry desperately "pleeeease"...Whenever this would occur, she would get tight-lipped, furious that I had challenged her..and say "I will not discuss this again until you are ready to apologize". Then she would stomp around the house, banging cabinet doors and clanging things in the kitchen angrily in a tantrum. I would be crying, crying crying - at this point needing just simple comfort and a reasonable explanation. I was told "just because I said so". She would ignore me for HOURS, which in a 7-year-olds life is an eternity. She was withholding her love.
Finally, I would become so desperate for a shred of affection or "false love" that I would come to her with the words "I'm sorry, mama". I was so needy for her love that to sacrifice my true beliefs became necessary for survival. It seems like a small-time subject, and I was helpless as a child -but it was preparing me for a lifetime of withheld love and abuse. She used this tactic on me throughout my entire youth with every possible area.
As I got older, this pattern and love withholding tactic was effective with my boyfriends, because I had learned it so well at home. My high school "sweetheart", Jim, would for no apparent reason, begin to distance himself.. not return phone calls, not take me out, and ignore me in the hallways at school, for up to two weeks at a time. During these times I would ask his friends "What's up with Jim, are we still going out?" they would say "I don't think so" - but I could never get him to communicate with me directly.
Then, out of the blue.. he would "return" to me, loving, affectionate, and wonderful...Bring me a rose, or another gift...and I would question him - "why have you been avoiding me?" and he would respond either "I don't know what your talking about, I thought you were mad at me".. or some other crazy making - "I was just busy with [sports] and I never got your messages" and then he would proceed to be the "perfect" boyfriend for a week or two. But I was so needy for this admiration he gave - I would put up with this abusive pattern for the next three years until he moved out of state.
I almost married the same type of man - I lived with him for four years. Anytime things got rough - if we had a disagreement he would disappear, going out with friends for all hours of the night, "I need some space" which would of course make me needier and needier. He would offer false information about where he had been, and then would be wonderfully loving, affectionate and kind for long periods of time between - so I would believe him (for fear that he would leave me if I didn't) and get things back to "normal", even though my gut would be telling me that I wasn't being true to myself. Later I found out he was having an affair and I wised up enough to leave.
After a few years of counseling, I finally met a wonderful non-Nman. He is not perfect, but my husband and I have been together for nine years (married for four). The sick thing is, even as a "healthier" adult - I find myself actually creating the old, familiar scenario. For the most part, my H is communicative, loving, affectionate, steadfast and usually open-minded - but true to himself. Occasionally, if he takes a strong stance on something in an argument - I revert to old, childlike behavior (I feel controlled, and the button is pushed!) and begin the ranting, crying, screaming for him to see my point of view. When I get like this, he walks away, saying "I can't talk to you like this, you are not in a good frame of mind, we'll discuss it later when you're calm" .
I have now successfully created my own withheld love "ah, pain, that's familiar... I'm alive" and I will follow him around the house crying, needing his comfort and understanding. This just makes him angrier, and I continue trying while he completely ignores me , which is the usual response (just like Nmom in the old days :!: ). Though he is doing this simply to protect himself (he had an Nmother, and learned to tune her out when she would try to manipulate him), my old feelings of desperation and need for admiration come - "please don't leave me". I will then lie on the floor, wallowing in horrible self esteem and self pity until he comes to comfort me (he always does, but the wait is excruciating). Then I am filled with self-loathing for creating the craziness with him. This is the unfortunate manipulative Ntrait that I have inherited from mommie dearest. It is truly disgusting, isn't it? :oops:
Guest, I do not know enough about your situation to give you answers - and many of our experiences are different I'm sure. I hope that some of this info has been helpful. Your indication that this person had broken it off with you before for "legitimate" reasons leads me to believe that there is some uncomfortable pattern between the two of you that does not sound healthy.
Withheld love is a common N trait. You are most likely being punished.
Read "Prisoner of Childhood", an older book available in the libraries for additional information about this behavior. It is possible that your N will come forward, when you don't expect it.. claiming that nothing was wrong, it was all your imagination. Prepare yourself for this crazy making, and you will be strong enough for the appropriate response (i.e., I do not accept that behavior, and I am not interested in continuing a relationship with you).
The other possibility is that he is trying to hold out (control) until you cannot stand it any further, and give in - making numerous attempts to reach him, apologize for nothing, etc. This is the hard one, under no circumstances should you attempt to contact him. (this is the one that I struggled with constantly). It is also possible that he has found another source of admiration, and is holding you at bay as "backup" for his narcissistic supply, until his other source has been exhausted. When this happens, he may return to you with apology for being away with some excuse. Do not be bamboozled - if he is truly an N, it is false!
You are doing the right thing by researching. Please take good care of yourself and we hope you will continue visiting the forum. Peace and Good Luck.
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CC,
Your post is so articulate. Well done. You explained many things that are familiar in my life, past and present. Witholding love.... the silent treatment for days on end until I can endure no more. Then I cave. "Please please don't do this to me".....
I have done disgusting things too. I've been violent more times than I care to admit. I've berated my spouse until I made MYSELF sick. As you said, the self-loathing can be overwhelming. It destroys my sanity, and I cannot allow the craziness to consume me. So I've become a student of "change your thoughts and you change your life" because I cannot change anyone but myself and I've come too far in my recovery.
I got this in a newsletter today. This is what creates my insane thinking. The blood pressure is probably only one symptom. LOL
** Ambivalence raises blood pressure **
Dealing with people for whom we have conflicted or ambivalent feelings causes our blood pressure to rise, even more so than when dealing with people we don’t like. An overbearing or critical mother who is loved very much fits into the “ambivalent” category, as does a good friend who is also highly competitive, according to Brigham Young University assistant psychology professor Dr. Julianne Holt-Lunstad, who conducted the research. The research group had 102 people wear portable blood pressure monitors for three days while keeping detailed diaries about people they dealt with and those relationships. Mixed feelings turned out to be worse for people than outright hostility. “For a person you feel both positive and negative toward, there could be hope and an expectation for something positive, and then, when you don’t get the support you wanted, this can be very distressing,” says Dr. Holt-Lunstad. <Abstract: http://www.apa.org/journals/hea/703ab.html#8>
As always,
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Dear CC
Thank you so much for your reply to me.
To explain a little more. I am the daughter of a father who had narcisstic traits, so the feelings the N aroused in me when he was "displeased" with me were very familiar. My father could not express any emotion with me whatsoever, although he was very loving towards my mother (but she still had to know her place).
I guess a sense of "not being quite good enough" was instilled into me at quite an early age, so when a very good and loving man fell in love with me, all my natural instinct told me that there must be something "wrong" with him to love me. This has continued throughout my married life.
My husband was my first sexual partner. We got married when I was 23.
The strangest thing was - I had never been attracted to "arrogant" men. Any sniff that they were like my father sent me running in the opposite direction. The N first came into my life about 16 years ago, I am ashamed to say. He isn't even conventionally attractive and yet I became overwhelmingly attracted to him, and then as his narcissism became evident, depression set in and my husband, who had been ignorant of our association, moved in and sent him packing.
As N's do, he came back into my life several years later, and we picked up again where we left off (again in secret, I am ashamed to say). It was more of a sexual teasing relationship - he would give me many peculiar reasons why he was unable to have sexual intercourse - but I was just sucked in by him.
Finally, it took place, and soon after the event he made excuses why he could not see me. Maybe I got too close and am being punished. I simply don't know. This is the first time I have been discarded "voluntarily". I think he has other disorders (such a paranoia and being a loner). I am sure he has no other (female) source of NS but he is a workaholic. In the past, he terminated for reasons which were, on the face of it, acceptable. This time, there was no real reason as far as I can see, so your explanation does help me a lot.
It has now been four months since I have seen him, but he does send the occasional e-mail, which I ignore. I am at the difficult stage of trying to work through this to get to the other side. I want peace in my life and I never want to be in this situation again. I just wanted some sort of explanation.
Thank you for your help. I will keep reading. I only found the site last weekend, and the realisation dawned on me then, that I too was Voiceless as a child. I am now going to work on my own healing. Thank you.
I
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My N started to withdraw sexually and then turn it around when things got "better". What I see now is her inability to answer questions asked directly. She would just look at me and not say a word. It is a power struggle. If I don't do what you ask I won't play, and you can't play without me. It's a standard psychological ploy.
Find a way to see thru it and do what you need to do to take care of yourself. My way is not your way. I would make comments on the silence, putting out in the open.
I am beginning to see, at least for me, that if I am honest with myself and with her in regards to the relationship, that I want to find the best solution for the relationship, speaking the truth is the strength. Which means speaking from the heart with the best intentions for all and with the knowledgeable information at hand. Hide nothing. My problem is that I can get a little intense, and my N did not handle intensity well. I tried to back off mine, and had some success. But as she stated in therapy, I remind her of her father, she can't do anything right. It wasn't right or wrong, it was mis-information and let's find the right stuff together. She never understood that. She was afraid to speak her truth. She stated she felt that if she did, I would leave. I am too strong and committed to a relationship for that. The therapist said "does Al look like someone who would leave". My N said no, but, in the end she couldn't see things another way. Too bad. Maybe it was Dad who was the orig. N.
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I wouldn't buy my kids barbies. It was a political position. They do not look or "act" like real women. So as soon as my middle daughter had enough money she bought her own, then kept asking if I thought it was cool to rub it in. "See mom, I have a position of my own." Soon she had a whole collection. I think she singlehandedly raised the price of Hasbro stock. If I would have tried to overstep my place and take her barbies - well, it would never have happened. I can just now partially imagine a household where children have no power or boundaries of their own, after reading these posts and remembering how controling my ex's mother was. Now play guns, that was a different issue with a different boundary.
My ex went through a whole year of interupting me every time I spoke. I kid you not, I could not finish a sentence. I tried telling him it was rude, explaining how it made me feel, and then getting angry. Nothing worked until I just stopped talking. He would interupt and I wouldn't finish no matter how much I needed an answer. That finally stopped it.
I always thought this was about control until reading here. I got control over my words back when I would opt out. Now I'm beginning to wonder about the voicelessness issue. Was it also an attempt to silence me? Or is it the same thing?
Also, what about relationships now? Are you scared to try?
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Interesting question, Cindy. Might be good for a separate thread.
They say to wait at least 2 years after a divorce/ending to get involved again. I do agree with that under most circumstances. Get healed and get your act together.
I'll probably have to take some relationship time off, it is a good idea. However, I am looking forward to the next. I have new knowledge that will help protect me.
I took a chance 3years ago for what I thought could be the most spectacular relationship; special energy, connectiveness, fun, saw eye to eye on most things, a sexual partner I didn't have to teach and brought something special to the relationship (I have to mention I am a Tantric). So, I wound up marrying an N. She was a professional at it.
We would talk in the past regarding our love lives. She said if we broke up, she would never get married again (I am #4, yes a red flag, but, at that time her words made perfect sense and so did the behaviours). My philosophy still is I will find someone else because I believe relationships are the best way to heal and grow. And there are women out there who are looking for this kind of life; open, honest, revealing, loving.
I refuse to let a sick person stand in my way. Sounds like tough talk but the best revenge is to take our good stuff to someone who appreciates it. If Ns are hurting on the inside, then taking my good stuff to someone else will make it hurt more. Sounds aggressive and mean, but, as I said elsewhere, if you're working on your stuff, I'm working with you. If not, be as empty on the inside and the bottles of wine you kill.
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It's been over 4 years for me, I'm pretty much back to my old self, and am still petrified. To what extent you wouldn't believe. Any contact and/or interest by a man who is not a trusted friend, and I look and act like a deer in your headlights. I'm not sure I will ever get over this in the repect of trusting my judgement again.
Voicelessness - is it synonymous with control?
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In my view voicelessness is not synonymous with control. It's the pain caused by the control. After 4 years, the control is of the mind. For me, I'm finding the voicelessness is the hopelessness we have endured, the trust that was broken. It doesn't really help me that deep inside the Ns are worse off. All we went by was the surface, what we could see. And their power is intoxicating. That's what I miss. The "juice".
I hope you understand where I'm coming from. I mean no disrespect. After my first divorce it took 2 years for me to stop shaking. And then another year to feel better, optimistic, etc., to move on.
I have the attention span of a gnat. I'm not sure if you've done the therapy thing. If you have and are still working it, continue. If it didn't feel comfortable or work, find a different one. And read. Never stop reading. We can find hope in other's words. That's why I'm here. I post alot because it is therapy for me, a community that is accepting. I need to do this. If anyone has an issue with me, please let me know by e-mail. I don't want to be a pest. As stated earlier, I know what it takes for me to work the process. This board has literally cut months off my pain.
In regards to meeting someone, take all the time you need. I'm pondering the trust thing myself. I tend to plunge in. I missed the the signs early in my relationship. I didn't trust my eyes. Again, the "juice".
Once it all falls together for you, you will be amazed at the new inner strength you'll find.
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(This was a double submit of the above)
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Keep posting. I'm considering an examination of online relationships for a sociology paper, have participated in two boards for a while, and have been somewhat involved in the startup of two boards. I'm fairly sure at this point that the livlier a board the more chance a lurking newbie will join in.
I'm also reading "hanging out in the virtual pub - masculinities and relationships online" by Lori Kendall. An ethnography, good read.
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CC:
Who is the author of the book, Prisoner of Childhood? I couldn't find it in the library index.
Thanks.
Cathi
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Cathi,
I'm sorry, I failed to type the entire name in the post about Books below.. It is called "Prisoners of Childhood: the Drama of the Gifted Child and the Search for the True Self" by Alice Miller.
This book literally had me with my mouth agape, it was what brought forth my understanding of what my mother (and now sister) was all about. Though written more for the psych professional than the patient, for me this was even more convincing: it made it some how more REAL for me that it was an actual condition and not some made-up diagnosis from a pop-psychologist. I cried and cried, and felt incredible relief that I wasn't crazy after all.
I hope you are able to find it at your library, but if not, here is the link from Amazon (cut and paste this and put it in your address bar):
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0465062873/qid=1063590414/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-4779101-9890240?v=glance&s=books
If you end up reading it, please let me know what your thoughts were.
Peace, CC
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CC:
Thanks for the information about the book. I'll definitely let you know what I think after reading it.
Cathi
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Wow! What a site! Miss Cindy sent me a link and I am in awe at the healing going on here. Congratulations to all of you!
My mom was/is (I dunno) an N mom. I heard everything from "what do you think, I work for you?" to worse, most of which were projections of herself. She had this habit of cutting her family off whenever she got angry with them and holds grudges to this day against people who still have no idea why she stopped talking to them. She and my uncle (her brother) have been doing this all their lives it seems. They're under the impression that they can say and do what they want about anyone, cut them off and roll back into their lives with no apology or acknowledgement of what they have done....leaving us with a lot of unfinished business and resentment.
I grew tired of it about 3 years ago. I figured if someone who is supposed to be family can trash me behind my back and act like they can do without me, then they will do without me. I have a son that I would never do that to and he has already seen it with his dad (oh yeah, I managed to land some real winners in the dating department, all exactly like my mom). I don't want him thinking it is normal to betray family. Thankfully he is learning that, albeit the hard way with his dad and the examples from my family, but he is truly on his way to being a gem of a human being.
My mom and I reconciled last year, she has changed a great deal but she never acknowledged anything. She seems more at ease and not quite as bitter, though she still has her moments, she just doesn't have them with me.
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That's my post above, by the way....lol!
Cassie
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My mother is the queen of withholding love. Turns out it was a good thing. At a Christmas visit a few years ago my wife and I woke up and went into my mother’s kitchen for coffee. She came in and would not look us in the face or speak to us. She literally turned her head away and did not respond to my “good morning.” Her face was tight and her lips puckered up like I have seen many times before. She was icy cold and completely closed off. My wife whispered to me “are we in trouble?” I said “apparently so.” What for, what did we do? I said “I have no idea!!”
We had spent the previous day visiting with my sister (her daughter) who lives nearby, and we stayed until 10 pm. We came back and they were in bed. My mother apparently had it in her mind that we would eat supper together, but instead of calling her daughters house and asking us, she decided that this was a personal conspiracy against her. That we were deliberately trying to hurt her. In her mind she decided we would go out and eat together. She told no one. She was furious when we “showed disrespect” to her by not participating in her plan. She could have called my sisters house at any time to make plans, but she did not.
To show her disapproval, I was “shunned” the next day as I have been so many times before. All of her answers were short and indignant. When I tried to talk to her about it, she told me I was selfish and inconsiderate. I told her that I didn’t think I was. She replied, “Well isn’t it interesting that you feel that way?” She would have nothing to do with a reasonable discussion. She just sat in her chair with her arms crossed, her lips tight, and a wall about 3 feet thick in front of her. She wanted me to feel bad, and guilty and ashamed for my selfish behavior and was having no part of an adult to adult discussion. I was a bad boy and should be ashamed.
This was a turning point for me. I didn’t know exactly what was “not right” because I had literally been treated this way my whole life, but something deep down was saying “This is Big, pay attention to this…If you can get this, it will change everything for you.” You know this is not right. You are a grown man with kids of your own now, do you see how Wacko this behavior is?
That was the first domino for me. I knew it would be painful to try and understand what was going on, but I didn’t know how life-changing it would be. I had a feeling this was major earthquake material and it was. To destroy the idealized image of your parents and family life and to realize that it was not at all the way that they presented it to you.
Now I am surprised and even embarrassed that I was so easily manipulated.
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Dear Simon,
My mother performs the "silent treatment" in the same ways. Often, we don't know how it begins - its as if we were to be mind readers (how dare we not anticipate their needs!!) Though seemingly ridiculous, it is effective (or has been - unfortunately it still is with me and I am struggling hard to override it). Deep in our childhood souls we want our parents to love us. Do not be embarrassed by how you felt. Having your wife there seems like it was helpful to you -perhaps even instrumental in helping you see the nonsense of it. My husband tends to minimize the things that Nmom does, because he doesn't really understand the impact it has on me. He'll say things like "oh, she's old, let her be.." etc.
It's like the Seeker said in another thread:
Only people who have walked that mile in our shoes will get it.
We are all struggling with getting past that need to be loved by our Nparent, and the acceptance that we need unconditionally. The bitter pill is that we aren't going to get it from them (Unfortunately, I haven't managed to gag it down yet) :) . It has to come from ourselves. I am working on grieving for that child in therapy lately. Thank you for sharing your story. I'm glad you found that first domino - may there be many more that follow. I have seen more than one parallel between our mothers in your posts.
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Hey Simon ... thanks for your post, especially:
"That was the first domino for me. I knew it would be painful to try and understand what was going on, but I didn’t know how life-changing it would be. I had a feeling this was major earthquake material and it was. To destroy the idealized image of your parents and family life and to realize that it was not at all the way that they presented it to you".
Yessireebob, you hit the nail on the head. I am too ashamed even on an anonymous board to tell you when my "moment of reckoning" was -- well it was more like a crescendo :!: -- anyhow, I knew it was over -- O-V-E-R !!! At least the Discounted (invisible, scapegoat, buffoon) part was over. I have an old school chum who told me when we were kids I acted like I had Ozzie & Harriet for parents (I don't remember acting that way) and she says that I denied the fact that they were just Bubba and Marg. Well, I shall not write much more because I always begin to sound like pinched lipped and bitter (I don't really have pinched lips :wink: ), so I will sign off. This board is marvelous and I am trying to not become addicted, but it's sooooo wonderful to not feel alone anymore and I have stopped questioning my own sanity. Thanks y'all :lol:
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I too always had an extremely idealized idea of what my childhood/family life was like. Now I understand why. I used to tell people that it was like the Brady Bunch growing up in my house. I actually “believed” this for a long time because that is how it was always presented to me by my parents. That was “their version” of what they were doing. It still is. In response to my opposing viewpoint my mother recently told me that they were “good parents” and that “if they made any major mistake it was to do too much for me.” It occurs to me that every parent thinks they are a good parent, because every parent is doing the best they can with “what they know.”
If you had a problem with anything they did, it was dismissed, and you were “straightened out.” Repeat ad infinitum. So, from an early age I was conditioned to believe their interpretations over my own. Even as a grown man, I still did this for a long time, despite all evidence to the contrary. When all this lifetime of intense pain came to the surface and I first “discussed” this with my Dad he told me to “Snap out of it.” Here’s the real shocker – I thought I should, because he told me to! I felt guilty and I must be wrong. Despite all my “work” I was still in between versions of what happened, and I was still letting him dictate his version as “the Truth” and my version as “well I must be confused.” The old programming allowed me to still be manipulated and question my own judgment. I am much clearer on this now and can see why it happened.
I now know that this idealized view was my way of surviving the situation. Since I was not allowed to have a voice, there was simply no option except to accept their version of the truth. To “dispute their word” wrought severe punishment, slaps in the face, “how dare you’s! ” and verbal and psychological abuse. So I had to “believe” their version, it was much less painful to a child with no power. I am amazed what the mind will do to survive a situation.
Eventually the “soul” part of you, the unconscious part that really knows what happened, will come along and demand to be recognized. It will create unbearable pain, depression, acting out, buried rage, in your life until you honor your real self and what really happened. But man does it hurt, it’s a lot like pulling a porcupine through your nose backwards. But you’ve got to do it. You’ve gotta get it out.
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Hi,
Thank you all for putting words to this experience of stripping away the idealized view of our families! I knew it was a Big Moment for me, but I really didn't know how to articulate it.
I share Discounted Girl's feelings very much. I told my therapist I feel like I had been brainwashed into thinking I had the "nicest, most normal" family. My husband jokes about The Waltons. I, too, had a friend who saw what was going on. She once told me: I didn't like you at first because you never spoke. Doesn't that say volumes? She would listen to me hem and haw, agonizing over allowing myself to do something (like get my ears pierced) for myself that I wasn't sure I had permission to do. I was 20 years old! She just grabbed me by my hand, took me down to the shop. Done. And my mother didnt have a cow. But I still didn't get what was going on.
Now I do, and I laughed out loud at Simon46's description! What we need is post-porcupine peace! :D Well, better get on with it...
Kind regards, S.
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Simon:
Hang tough. I've been there and done that and can relate to everything you said. I still wake up in the middle of the night sometimes and cry like a baby over the pain. I always feel better afterward. I feel the tears and guess that I am living still. Beats the alternative.
Peace to you.
Cathi
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It's been over 4 years for me, I'm pretty much back to my old self, and am still petrified. To what extent you wouldn't believe. Any contact and/or interest by a man who is not a trusted friend, and I look and act like a deer in your headlights. I'm not sure I will ever get over this in the repect of trusting my judgement again.
Voicelessness - is it synonymous with control?
Hi Cindy,
It's been only one year for me .. and like you, I couldn't think of anything worse than contact/interest from a man who is not a trusted friend. My 20 year relationship (16 married) to a medical professional finally was revealed as a monumental deception. When I met him, he was widowed with four children. His wife drowned (aged 40) like Natalie Wood .. fell off a boat whilst under the influence. He had four children - 9, 12, 14, 16 and I had two - 4 and 7. He was on the brink of entering into a deed of arrangement with the tax department, which subsequently sold his family home. They took everything, including his medical rooms. We joined our families together but people he knew never treated me with respect. Women were jealous .. his late wife had a lover and there were at least 3 women he was having liaisons with. When I arrived on the scene - a newcomer to town - I came in for scrutiny big time. I tried to earn respect from people, but resentment ran high and I have now come to realise my husband didn't respect nor care particularly for me and this was projected to anyone we associated with. I didn't ever 'crack' it with his children. He blamed me and I blamed me. He is a Narcissicistic MD .. his work is mainly cosmetic surgery. His patients (mostly) adore him and he thrives on it. Others - hospital staff, nurses etc. all adore him. He appears as someone calm, mild-mannered, decent, charming and is the most convincing case of 'what you see is what you get' I have ever come across. But depending on who you are, the opposite can be the case. Well.. finally, he ran off with a patient. I have discovered that he has bagged me out to staff at the rooms (which I ran as practice manager for 7 years) .. and I now believe he bagged me out to his children - hence my never being able to form relationships with them. I have discovered (as you do) that he has been cheating on me for years (another patient, at least) and I am stunned, still. Now the patient he has run off with is attempting to take out a 'misconduct restraining order' on me - all false accusations - but I will have to find money to pay for my defence. Of course, I have hardly any money any more. He has seen to that. I believe he has fired her up to do this to me. This type of narcissist is like a Jekyll and Hyde-type person. No-one but me and my children - we also had 2 together - (not his four) knows or can begin to know how evil he is. Unlike other Narcissists described in this forum, you would never, never, know he is anything other than absolutely charming. He has neglected me emotionally and distanced himself from me - even leaving a room when I entered.. though it took me years to realise. I believe he is an alcoholic - can't do without drinking every night and starting at lunch time on weekends. He would drink, I would drive. Eventually I wouldn't want to go to medical dinners with him - or anywhere he would be drinking. He argued with me incessantly - I never knew why. I now think he was just trying to destroy me. I have ranted and raved a lot here .. but, Cindy, what I really mean to say is I don't think I will ever again be trusting enough to enter another relationship. My judgement is so damaged and I am so fearful I have no measure by which to assess anyone. Quite simply, I would be terrified to get involved again. At 51 years of age, that is sad. Life seems pointless - except for my children. I have been seeing a doctor weekly for 12 months and am on anti-depressants. What this man has done to me is evil and I have been so confused as a result. He treated me with disregard and I wouldn't know what it is to be truly loved by someone. I am trying to be strong, but it is very, very difficult.
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"He appears as someone calm, mild-mannered, decent, charming and is the most convincing case of 'what you see is what you get' I have ever come across. But depending on who you are, the opposite can be the caseHe appears as someone calm, mild-mannered, decent, charming and is the most convincing case of 'what you see is what you get' I have ever come across. But depending on who you are, the opposite can be the case"
My N was the same way, charming, decent, etc., all on the outside. But some co workers after a few years saw thru it. She would even say the same thing "what you see is what you get". We are divorcing because I finally saw thru it and pushed for solutions. All she ever did was avoid.
I feel for your pain. Doctors and lawyers can be worst when exacting their revenge.
I hope you find the time when you can trust again. Learn how to trust yourself first. Know who you are and live those principles. It is a hard journey but it can happen.[/quote]
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Mine, too, didn't decieve others as well as he decieved me, so I have a much better support network left than he does. Those that "sided" sided with me, but he's in general clueless.
I remember a telling occurance. I'm not the jealous type. I saw his flirting as embarrassing and disrespectful of me, but he wouldn't stop it. Then the Clinton tape where he flirted with stewardesses on a flight was shown and discussed. I said see, that's how you look to others. Only then did he stop the blantant flirting. I'm sure he still flirted. I had to appeal to his vanity to get through to him. Sick.
My oldest, now 25, told me when she was about 8 and her sister about six were in Safeway one day two women were talking about dad, one said "that's so-and-so's boyfriend" and the other said, "oh, that's him." My daughter broke in and said "That's my dad and he's married to my mon." like they must be mistaken about the identity. The women just looked at each other and didn't say anything. She told me this two years ago. The girls had discussed this several times, wondering if dad was cheating, but had never asked either one of us about it.
What did I do to my children, marrying this monster? And I DON'T EVER WANT TO GO THERE AGAIN. I'll pay any price, including lonelyness to feel that I won't end up there.
Thanks, Camilla, it's good to know I'm not alone.
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I grew up with an N-mom, and on the outside I suppose my family looked like something from "Leave It To Beaver." In public my mother fawned over my grades, my activities. But when we got home, she criticized everything I did, from my grades to my clothes. I was allowed no privacy. If she thought I was hiding something from her, she'd simply go through my things until she found my journals, stories or poetry, then she would get angry over their content. She didn't allow me to socialize the way my friends did, or anywhere without her approval. She tried to choose the college I went to, my career, she even tried to make me like the same things she did.
If I rebelled in anyway, she would then either get mad and throw things about or else she wouldn't speak to me for days at a time. Like someone else said, when you're a child the silent treatment is horrible. She and my dad fought all the time, and I don't think either of them have been truly happy in their entire lives.
I never had any sort of freedom until I went to college, and then when I'd come home, my mother would say that I was acting like I was above them because I developed an interest in things like art shows, ballet, and classical music. Those were all things my mother considered for "rich people." I wasnt allowed to enjoy my new interests at all, and when I'd come home on holiday, she would remind me how much she disliked what I was reading, watching or listening to.
I'm not a child anymore, but I find myself crippled about things like buying something I know my mother would hate--a new coat, a cd, a book. I made the decision in the last year to be myself and pursue my interests. So I bought the gaudy coat my mother hated so much and let me know was totally inappropriate, but that I loved. I bought the cd's that I like but she hates. I read the books I find interesting. I even bought colorful clothing that's no so conservative because I like it, and I didn't take it back when my mom saw what I'd bought.
Since I've been unresponsive to her, she now claims I hate her, than I want nothing to do with her, and that I'm doing everything to hurt her. I told her to stop yelling at my son one night when he was doing clean up, because she just kept going on and on about how lazy and irresponsible (he's 6) he is because he can't pick things up. She then proceeded to slam the door, walk out, screaming "I'm sick of all of you. You can all go to hell." She didn't speak to me for 2 weeks, or if she did, it was icy, cold and clipped sentences. Normally, I would try to make up for confronting her and apologize, but this time I didn't. I wasn't at fault, and I didn't try to win her love back. She's a master at withholding love, and I always find myself feeling guilty and ashamed when I take a stand and refuse to do what she wants.