Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Gaining Strength on June 17, 2008, 06:55:20 AM
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Had Enough of a group of people who want to throw daggers and own none - not even those with their fingerprints all over them.
Had Enough of a group of people who need to "talk" about others rather than work on their own healing and leave people whom they either dislike or disagree vehemently with alone.
I like this enough to repeat it:
"I find much of what is going o"n on this board lately to be very offensive. I have seen time and again that to react emotionally always makes it worse. I have noticed that responding rationally, unemotionally in an attempt to resolve the conflict simply doesn't work. I don't believe that anything works other than for those whom have animosity or a sense of antagonism towards others simply stop responding. I don't think that is likely to happen but in truth I think none in the conflict hold a superior position over any others.
People will either get tired of the conflict and stop or it will go on ad infinitum worsening and worsening until there is yet another blow up. There is no superior side. All in the conflict are responsible for the problem. We are all wounded here or else we wouldn't be here. We are all susceptible to triggers and to taking offense. Once we take offense, we are hooked into the conflict.
The question is - how do we stop once we are hooked into the conflict? Now that's a very, very difficult problem isn't it."
Life's way too short for this behavior in cyberspace.
Goodbye.
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Lighter is a bully and for some twisted psychological reason a host of you who have NOT been bullied by her decide to take after all those who have. Talk about bizarre behavior. In 3D life I choose to stay clear of bullies and I apply that here as well but the bullying has taken on mammoth proportion and there is no containing it.
Have at it. It is dark and nefarious and nothing good can come of it.
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Ther is a time to leave and a time to stay,a time to fight and a time to give up fighting. There is a time for everything, SS. That is wisdom, dear friend. Love, Ami
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Lighter is a bully
I agree. I do not understand why or how Dr. G can not see this, but I think that blindness is destructive to the board {with all due respect to Dr. G}.
Best of luck to you, SS.
Love,
ann
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I also agree with SS and ann3. I support ann3's perspective that lighter regularly posts snarky remarks and further state that she fans the flames of conflicts on the one hand, and then steps aside and begins separate conversations on innocuous subjects on the other.
If that was all there is to it, I could disregard the behavior. However, I find that every time I log on to the board, I am tensed up anticipating whether lighter will once again find that time and circumstances are ripe to conduct completely unrestrained campaign against perceived offenders as she did for several weeks in December. At that time, in post after post she characterized her target as evil, perverted, conniving, seductive, twisted, plotting, not worthy of anything good, lying, conspiring and characterizing herself as the defender of the innocent who must scourge the board of evil that the poor blind, vulnerable sheep could not see and on and on and on. The vile and vindictive fuzzy-wuzzy post was merely the culmination of a series of posts all in the same vein. All of these posts were characterized as 'creative problem solving' or earnest efforts to creatively address unflattering issues. I don't think so. Call if what you may. I call it verbal abuse and accompanying minimizing of verbale abuse. And then a quick step to another post to begin a separate discussion of drinking cocoa by the fire.
I was completely retraumatized just reading here.
Bottom line: I cannot know that I can be safe from verbal abuse here. Rather, the reverse. I have seen demonstrated evidence that other posters are not safe from verbal abuse here. In my past I have been a target, for my flaws and failings. I find I still have plenty of flaws and failings. What could prevent me from once again becoming a target? Particularly if I speak my piece?
Yet to not speak my piece, what am I doing here?
Am I referring to ancient history, done deals, old conflict? I don't think it's out of date at all. I see no change, no acknowledgment, no rapprochement. Many times, in my own life, I have attributed remorse, insight, change of heart and learning to my verbal abuser. There would be a quiet period where he was particularly charming and charismatic. And then the cycle repeated.
This board has a lot of good things about it and a lot of good people. And lighter, you have a lot to offer and have helped many a poster deal with DV issues.
But I think I've got to go.
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I'm going to have to respectfully agree to disagree with you, Iphi.
If you return to the board, and I hope you do....
please do not post about me or to me.
I never meant to hurt you, believe that.
Lighter
(forwarded to Dr. G)
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Dr. G,
I have to agree that we have discussed the issue raised above in PM's and you've said one thing to me in private and another here on the board. I hope you will rethink your recent choice of words on the thread where you said two posters were not the same person (it is very probably they could be, and you have no evidence they're not) and also reevaluate who is bullying whom.
I'm also taking a break as I saw what I took as a meltdown when you posted what you did. It was not being honest, I fear.
bean
Thank you, Bean. Ami
When my voice settles in a little more, I think I will leave ,too.
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Shame Slayer....I agree with you on the issue here. I see over and over members who have little to say other than intellectualizing emotional issues and other, rather than sharing their own and very real inner pain, resulting in childhood, now mostly unavailable on a feeling and often a cognitive level. It is the same old talk but never the courage to share what really ails them and to access the old body memories of the abuse many here suffered. No wonder this is harder than it needs be with all the strife here. As some might know I am a firm believer in the concepts expressed by Alice Miller (based on the fact that I have healed many issues with her approach). She in my opinion is one of the most important thinkers and humanitarians of the 20th and now 21st century. What she has to say is important to everyone. A current issue here, as I see it, is the concept Miller clarifies where children injured, now unaware as adults, through the mechanism of repression, project out their latent hatred onto others especially those they sense to be weaker or more vulnerable. They do this simply for revenge, but unfortunately it is revenge taken against the wrong people now and still these people remain blind to what happened to them early on. It takes courage and strength to dig deeply and find feelings /old hurts, and then share them openly with others and ourselves. I came here, somewhat naive, and shared a portion of the sexual that I experienced and by my being open and vulnerable I did find a small measure of relief but the bulk of my healing is with my therapist where it's safe. It is one thing to THINK/INTELLECTUALIZE about the pain but it is quite another to feel and share it! For me religion, positive thinking, drugs, meditation or any other form of illusory "cure" will not work because they simple deny ones own feelings. Now, I mostly consider this board a waste of my time, anti-therapeutic. IMO Dr Grossman the board has been poorly moderated. More than any other thinker on the issue of overcoming the damaging effects of Narcissism I respect the work of Alice Miller. Dr Grossman you are no Alice Miller. I am even questioning the reason for this boards existence and refuse to put myself in harms way here......James
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Hi Bean,
I have just a minute here, but please post the content of all relevent PM's that I sent to you on the subject of lighter, changing, and Finding Peace being the same person.
Thanks,
Richard
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It takes courage and strength to dig deeply and find feelings /old hurts, and then share them openly with others and ourselves. I came here, somewhat naive, and shared a portion of the sexual that I experienced and by my being open and vulnerable I did find a small measure of relief but the bulk of my healing is with my therapist where it's safe. It is one thing to THINK/INTELLECTUALIZE about the pain but it is quite another to feel and share it! For me religion, positive thinking, drugs, meditation or any other form of illusory "cure" will not work because they simple deny ones own feelings. Now, I mostly consider this board a waste of my time, anti-therapeutic. IMO Dr Grossman the board has been poorly moderated. More than any other thinker on the issue of overcoming the damaging effects of Narcissism I respect the work of Alice Miller. Dr Grossman you are no Alice Miller. I am even questioning the reason for this boards existence and refuse to put myself in harms way here......James
Wow...James.
What you wrote here is powerful stuff. Yes, getting to the pain instead of intellectualizing, although I have learned over time that my intellectualizing my pain is a defense and to be gentle with myself about it.
James, coming to this board was a place where I could really look at myself and my reactions, or my responses, to others which tells me a great deal about myself and how much I still need healing.
At times I have been imperfect, angry...frustrated...annoyed etc. As a child I was not allowed to have those feelings and certainly not allowed to express them..I was voiceless.
Through courage I have found my angry voice, I have found my frustrated voice, I have found my hating voice...all of which were my shamed child within who never got to yell, kick and scream, the very way a toddler or child would if when they are being violated. Of course, I am an adult now so, I can keep my tantrums silent...mostly.
Anyways, this board is what you make it, it is what you bring to it; for me it is about working around self and my expectations, rather than others.
Lise
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I think this thread is just too much!
All the comments about lighter and the dressing down of Dr. Grossman.
As well I see that bean has been PMing more often than posting on the board and trying to get to know people.
Izzy
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How have you "Seen" that Bean has been PMing and what in the world does it matter to you?
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I also agree with SS and ann3. I support ann3's perspective that lighter regularly posts snarky remarks and further state that she fans the flames of conflicts on the one hand, and then steps aside and begins separate conversations on innocuous subjects on the other.
If that was all there is to it, I could disregard the behavior. However, I find that every time I log on to the board, I am tensed up anticipating whether lighter will once again find that time and circumstances are ripe to conduct completely unrestrained campaign against perceived offenders as she did for several weeks in December. At that time, in post after post she characterized her target as evil, perverted, conniving, seductive, twisted, plotting, not worthy of anything good, lying, conspiring and characterizing herself as the defender of the innocent who must scourge the board of evil that the poor blind, vulnerable sheep could not see and on and on and on. The vile and vindictive fuzzy-wuzzy post was merely the culmination of a series of posts all in the same vein. All of these posts were characterized as 'creative problem solving' or earnest efforts to creatively address unflattering issues. I don't think so. Call if what you may. I call it verbal abuse and accompanying minimizing of verbale abuse. And then a quick step to another post to begin a separate discussion of drinking cocoa by the fire.
I was completely retraumatized just reading here.
Bottom line: I cannot know that I can be safe from verbal abuse here. Rather, the reverse. I have seen demonstrated evidence that other posters are not safe from verbal abuse here. In my past I have been a target, for my flaws and failings. I find I still have plenty of flaws and failings. What could prevent me from once again becoming a target? Particularly if I speak my piece?
Yet to not speak my piece, what am I doing here?
Am I referring to ancient history, done deals, old conflict? I don't think it's out of date at all. I see no change, no acknowledgment, no rapprochement. Many times, in my own life, I have attributed remorse, insight, change of heart and learning to my verbal abuser. There would be a quiet period where he was particularly charming and charismatic. And then the cycle repeated.
This board has a lot of good things about it and a lot of good people. And lighter, you have a lot to offer and have helped many a poster deal with DV issues.
But I think I've got to go.
Thank you, Iphi . Ami
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Hi Bean,
The availability of IP proxies has been brought to the fore, so you don’t have to be concerned about that issue. However, the concern about my being dishonest has not—and it is a very serious Board issue. Because you brought the issue up, it’s important for the Board to evaluate the evidence. Please post the PM’s that you were referring to (I believe you are referring to the 4 pm’s, dated Dec. 21st and 22nd).
Thanks,
Richard
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How have you "Seen" that Bean has been PMing and what in the world does it matter to you?
Good point.
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Izzy,
My primary purpose has been to help me and others here who seem open to it. Could you clarify what you've just implied?
bean
Bean,
I send you my sincere apologies after I re-read your post #12 with all the older posts. I saw that you had mailed to Dr. Grossman. As I went down the list I began to think of separate mailings, but they were all in one?????
That being the case I was wrong and hope you accept my apology.
Sincerely
Izzy
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How have you "Seen" that Bean has been PMing and what in the world does it matter to you?
Good point.
to Shame Slayer
It might be more fair for you to await bean's request for understanding of my post than for you to become involved with an argumentative statement.
To Gabben
I would have thought you to be smarter than to fall into SS's trap of snarkiness. Have neither of you no patience to await bean's request for clarification????
This is how misunderstandings and fights begin. I expect you to respond to this that both of you were too hasty in posting/looking for a fight!
Izzy
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As well I see that bean has been PMing more often than posting on the board and trying to get to know people.
Dear Izzy,
I do not wish to gang up on you with SS. No, however, I did rather agree with what she pointed out.
This comment from you above is a flame throwing comment, an instigator as well as a judgement. Yet, SS and myself did not make you wrong for saying it or speaking it or using your voice. On the contrary, we were just questioning your conviction of comtempt regarding bean without giving bean a fair trial.
It is as if others will read your words here and then assume a potential lie about bean?
If you were to read where bean is at in her personal life, you would see that she has just been through the emotional ringer with her bully employer and has not has much emotional stuff to give here. Now, she is currently on leave from work with some time to give to the board.
Hopefully that bares some light?
Lise
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Gabben
I find this post unnecessary, as I have apologized to bean, and explained why? Did you read that?
Please await bean's response!
Izzy
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Thank you bean,
I am happy that you understood my explanation and more than pleased that you accept my apology.
I think we are an example of straightening out something before it became a volcano. I am glad you asked for clarification.
Thank you, again
Izzy
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Hi Bean,
I have done many hours of work on this issue since our communication in December. As you probably know, I have real time access to where everyone on the board moves from second to second. I also have access to IP address—often that indicates what company/service people are using. I also know that the major U.S. providers (Comcast, Verizon, Roadrunner, Bell South, etc.) would not allow people to use their IP addresses as free proxies—(there are, however, other US proxies). Let us take a situation where two people move on the message board to two different places at the exact same second. Let us suppose one is using one major provider, and the other, another major provider. Let us also assume that one line shows up as a DSL line in a particular state and one line shows up as a cable connection in another state. Even if you could explain through some ingenious strategy how someone managed to wrestle a proxy out of a major provider, the person would have to 1) guess randomly that I was watching their movement on the site at that very moment, 2) have two computers, and 3) manage to land on two different places on the Board at the very same moment—all to fool me (who is probably not watching) into thinking they were indeed two different people. (If they tried this repeatedly, of course, the pairing would show up in the logs, and I would become suspicious—it hasn’t) In my estimation, the odds of such a scenario happening is close to nil. That is why I said I was “certain” of the unique identities of the people in question.
Best,
Richard
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Dear Richard,
Your use of the word "certainty" was MY problem in the interchange, also. It opened me up to people's ridicule in a way that a less definite word ,from you, would not have(IMO) . Ami
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Hi Bean,
I answered your questions in a new topic.
Best,
Richard