Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: LilyCat on June 18, 2008, 06:19:55 PM
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Well, I'll try to recreate the post I lost yesterday, although I think it will be shorter. (A good thing.)
I've been having a hard few days. It started on Sunday when I learned the committee at church has decided on an interim pastor and is making a recommendation to the board. It marks a new phase in our church life and for me it raises a few issues. I've always wanted to talk to whoever they got, once they got here, and now that the opportunity seems close, it's raising all sorts of issues and pain. Can I trust another pastor? Do I even care? Do I even care about any pastor?Do pastors even matter to me or affect my life any more? I don't even care about when we get another permanent one. He/she will have no meaning to me. Just reliving the thing and wondering if he'll understand and truly help me and believe me will be hard.
Also, it feels like everyone at church is moving on -- and they are, and of course only 4-5 people know about any of this -- and I'm left holding this enormous piece of baggage to deal with. I'm alone with it. They will all be moving forward and I will be where I will be. I'll be feeling this great loss and they'll be much more positive. Even the people who know, especially my good friend the music director, will naturally forget the incident and move on. That's just how it goes. I'm afraid that he will begin to think that I should be getting over it (I guess I'm projecting, aren't I?) when in fact, my therapist said I was where he'd expect me to be with all this, it hasn't been very long.
I am afraid, also, that in moving on with the church's life, they will forget about this man and his other transgressions, and just let them get lost in the flow of things. There is so much additional stuff to keep him accountable for, and I think it will just get lost.
That's hardly the big part. I'm just now starting to comprehend and feel -- I think -- what this man did to me. It is outrageous. I have been feeling everything -- hurt, enormous anger, yadadadada. I've also been having flashbacks of various times when he would look at me with these crazy eyes; I never knew what they were or meant, but it always frightened me. Terrified me sometimes. I never knew whether it was sexual intent, a general threatening attempt, or really, I just didn't know. Sometimes it seemed like he was trying to look like he was enthralled to see me but missed the look. Now that I know more about Nism, I wonder if he was trying to mimick an emotion but missed. I suppose at different times it could have been any of those. Anyway, I've been having flashbacks and fear associated with them.
In turn, this has set of deep feelings about his use of power and control. I see more and more how he was using his power and trying to control me, and it makes me shake.
So I took this to group (therapy) Monday night, and as always, they were just great and very helpful. At the moment I am the only woman in group, the rest are guys, and they're really good guys. They are so helpful! And they're all smart and articulate, too. (To say nothing of my therapist...) We got into it, one of them seriously challenged me with some really good insight (he always does) ... which prompted my therapist to say a few things about my experience with my FOO. And that set off a bomb. It was so painful and so powerful that I made an appointment to see him the next day. I just couldn't function while walking around with it.
When my T reframed what my group-mate was saying, he explained how I idealize people out of times, and it doesn't serve me well. It's how I often get into these jams. I'm looking to replace the parents I never had.
The discussion hit a nerve; I told them I had never ever idealized or even adored or looked up to my parents when I was little, ever. I never did. By the time I was driving home, I felt like I'd been hit by a ton of bricks and was in enormous pain. In 20 years of therapy I'd never felt anything this painful. It was the loss of something I should have had. A big loss.
And of course, it all gets tied in with the N pastor, so it just gets bigger and bigger and bigger. I could barely concentrate yesterday. (Although I was much better after my therapy session.)
It's all very hard and very painful and very overwhelming, but I know this is a good thing. I know that idealization thing is a rock-bottom, core issue, and that mourning my parents and what they didn't give me is very important. Vital.
A big part of this, too, is that in trying to understand my own contribution to this mess, Monday night I ended up feeling like I'd contributed to my own psychological rape; and I did, although I can't be blamed for it. I couldn't have seen it coming. I couldn't have predicted who this man really was, or have seen it. He was that good and my therapist really understands that.
He asked if I could afford to start individual therapy again (I haven't been for 5 years because of my employment situation) but I can't. However, it felt so good to hear him ask, and to hear that he thinks I need it (because I agree). And the very wonderful way he brought it up. What a great guy.
But that doesn't make it easy. I was supposed to go to my dad's house for a few days and help my sister (and her husband, although he never does any work) clean out the attic. I'm not going. I'm just too fragile. I might, MIGHT be able to take her, but there's no way I can be around him; he's just an a____ and a bully. (Not to her. They seem to have a good relationship, actually.) Everything is about him.
I'm taking the two days for me, to take care of things at home. Also, I have some plumbing issues so this gives me a good out for not going. (Although they probably won't believe me.)
But heck. It's their time-table. I don't have to meet it. I don't have to do a da)) thing about that house, really. So I don't feel I have to go.
Anyway, I just wanted to say that although it's been very hard for the past many months, all of a sudden this week it went into overdrive. I was actually supposed to be off work today, but I came in because I felt it would be soothing, and it was (believe it or not). I feel much better today, but probably when I go out the door and get in my car it will all come back again. I felt enormous rage at this guy (the N pastor) for my entire hour's commute this morning. I'll probably feel it on the way home.
I feel depressed as I write this, but I know that's the anger that I'm not letting out while I'm at work. Also, because of the loss I feel from my parents.
Well, gotta go! Thanks for listening.
LC
PS -- this is not nearly as good as what I lost yesterday. That was much more powerful. Oh well. But I've copied it!
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(((((((Lily)))))) I'll read through with both eyes and reply when I can. Just at a glance, I recognize the familiar burdens and trust concerns and I know that can feel so very heavy.
Imagining you have to leave work soon and my brain is toast, at the moment, so it'll probably not be till tomorrow...
just wanted to give you hugs and a bit of reassurance here.
With love,
Carolyn
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When my T reframed what my group-mate was saying, he explained how I idealize people out of times, and it doesn't serve me well. It's how I often get into these jams. I'm looking to replace the parents I never had.
Dear Lily,
This I can relate with. I too idealize people. Your story is one that I can relate with. I do not want to go into my story too much here, but to say that so much of your pain was just like my pain. I felt a relief at reading your story in that it helped me to know that I am not alone in my stuggles with FOO stuff and the way an N raped my heart.
For me the idealization was a big factor in the unconscious wish to be able to blindly trust others and have that trust respected -- NOT. I learned that I had to let go of that wish for blind and unfiltered raw trust. As a child I was hurt and denied love, it was a violation of my trust.
The discussion hit a nerve; I told them I had never ever idealized or even adored or looked up to my parents when I was little, ever.
Neither did I.
And of course, it all gets tied in with the N pastor, so it just gets bigger and bigger and bigger. I could barely concentrate yesterday. (Although I was much better after my therapy session.)
Exactly, the N pastor was your trigger, the dynamic parallels your FOO stuff -- I know that you get this.
It's all very hard and very painful and very overwhelming, but I know this is a good thing. I know that idealization thing is a rock-bottom, core issue, and that mourning my parents and what they didn't give me is very important. Vital.
(((((((Lily)))))))
My experience was like the scraping of the bottom layers of my wound of toxic love and the wounds from the lack of love, or the holes that were left in me. Through my pain I was able to see my broken parts because that is were I eventually ended up - broken.
I'm glad that you wrote this stuff out here - it always helped me to write out my process and pain.
You are definitely on the ball in regards to awareness and understanding -- it shows your integrity; in that you are taking responsibility for your part, which is merely that you fell into the victim role again, which is OK. I needed to be a victim this year to help me realize what a victim I was in my childhood so that I could get to the old pain and heal and not act out my untold stories which were rooted in toxic love.
Lise
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Lily,
Do you ever read Bob Sorge?
The Fire of Delayed Answers?
Or his book on "Dealing with the Praise and Rejection of Man?"
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Dear Lily,
Your post reaches every cell in my body. It's so difficult. I know.
The realizations and recognitions do continue... often unbidden... of what sort of damage NPD really does leave in its wake. I understand. And I know that it can feel as though there's a disease within, still consuming... but it's not. N is gone. You really are free. Now comes the ongoing challenge to address all the lies and dress the wounds... because the spots which tend to want to accept illusion are the ones N is a master at filling. Hope that makes sense... I don't know any other way to express it.
When my T reframed what my group-mate was saying, he explained how I idealize people out of times, and it doesn't serve me well. It's how I often get into these jams. I'm looking to replace the parents I never had.
Exactly. Same for me... the idealization of others, avoidance of reality, longing to fill that ancient void. It's a very primitive drive and once uncovered, it threatens to consume you... but you're stronger than that.
And I know it feels as though all of these new awarenesses are a symptom of this dark thing growing... but that's only another illusion. The thing is there, uncovered or not...
it just hurts so much to see the whole image of it all.
In many ways, this stage you're at reminds me of the expulsion of the afterbirth, following childbirth.
It's the very substance of what allowed the N illusion to have impact, to take root, and to grow.
Every bit of it must go, lest it linger and fester.
I prayed about how I could possibly respond to you here, Lily. There's no easy way through this mess. Just hope that you know you have a grace without measure available to you... and you will not only survive, but thrive. Stand on the Rock and don't be afraid to lean on Him, too, okay?
Love,
Carolyn
P.S. I'll watch for your posts and keep listening, as long as you need to work this through.
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I was supposed to go to my dad's house for a few days and help my sister (and her husband, although he never does any work) clean out the attic. I'm not going. I'm just too fragile. I might, MIGHT be able to take her, but there's no way I can be around him; he's just an a____ and a bully. (Not to her. They seem to have a good relationship, actually.) Everything is about him.
I'm taking the two days for me, to take care of things at home. Also, I have some plumbing issues so this gives me a good out for not going. (Although they probably won't believe me.)
Hi again, Lily,
Just wanted you to know that I did notice the above and realize that you probably won't be back here till Monday.
Great boundary-drawing, by the way... taking your days off to tend to your own immediate needs!!
I hope the plumbling problems have been resolved without much further ado. I enjoy playing handy-person around the house in alot of different areas, but wouldn't touch the pipes with a 10' wrench! Murphy's Law seems to apply doubly where that's concerned.
Anyhow, just thinking of you and wishing you a fantastic weekend!
Love,
Carolyn
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Hi everyone,
Just wanted to say a fast thank you. I've been off work and don't have internet at home, but came to the library for a few minutes. just enough to read quickly and type a fast thank you. (It's about to close.)
Lise, thank you. You've given me a lot to think about and it sounds like we maybe have some common things to talk about. I'll digest more when I get back to work. I'm not familiar with Bob Sorgen or his books, but I'll investigate them. Guess I won't do it today at the library -- it's closing in 5 minutes. This one is just a tiny branch, anyway.
Carolyn, thank you. Your words are a great comfort and as always, you are such a great friend and guide. I'm so tickled to be told I did some good boundary setting! That's refreshing! I think my sister is really ticked at me for not coming up, but really, I needed to stay home. The plumbing (not fixed yet, landlord is always great about stuff but hasn't been able to get a plumber); got a TON of housework done that I've been behind on, so that feels great. (Including massive recycling now gone.) The weather has been absolutely gorgeous, so it's been nice to be off. The cats are happy to have me home. Uncle Fester goes outside and sits on the step, happy as a clam. (He's 16, I adopted him and the "baby kitty" after my precious Lily died last fall.)
Most of all, it was a smart decision to stay home because I needed the time alone. I never could have managed with my sister and her husband. Just not "feeling" kind of people!
Anyway, it's rough, going to get rougher, but I feel bouyed by my friends here. Thank you, and enjoy the rest of your weekend. Will talk more on Monday. Thanks again -- it helps even to pop in to the board for a minute. Will maybe write more on Monday.
xoxoxo
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Oh, Lily...
So glad to know you had a productive day... especially with the added bonus of some great weather on your days off!
Yes, you did a super job setting boundaries - which I think is one of the most basic building blocks for success within relationships... not to mention personal happiness and contentment. My pastor often talks about his own need to do this with folks who tend to think that he should spend time with each and every one of them in deep convo, discussing their various issues. They expect him to be available to all... at all times... and that's virtually impossible, with a large congregation.
He used to do alot of individual counseling, till it finally got so out of hand from a time-consuming perspective that...
well, he's only half-kidding when he says - the way he drastically cut down the # of people who want to meet with him is - he'd tell them, "Just go and do the right thing." Funny how that's not what most folks want to hear! :lol:
Anyhow, I use that same method, at times, with my kids (doesn't work too well with pets, though)... and they know - Mom is setting a boundary again. lol.
Oh yeah... boundaries are awesome constructs!
You just keep coming back to get re-bouyed (or from me... possibly alot of well-meaning blather) and you'll find lots of company here along the way out of suffering, Lily. I'm headed in the same direction and I know lots of other folks are, too.
Love to you,
Carolyn
P.S. Uncle Fester sounds like my kinda cat!
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Hope, thank you. I just have a second right now, but your post was really uplifting. I'm having a harder and harder and harder time ... not all the N, I have to say; some other issues too.
I will say, though, that yesterday was a hard day at church. It's hard every week, but I think because of how I've felt this past week, it was worse yesterday. I'll write more if I can get the time today.
But just wanted to say thanks. You have chosen your name well!
LC
PS -- I wish you could have seen Uncle Fester yesterday. I was out planting pots for my little entranceway -- and he was just SOOOOOOOOO happy to be out there lying on the sidewalk. Did I tell you that when I walk across the road to take my garbage out, he follows me, just like a dog? Or more like Mary and her little lamb. I think my neighbors must be highly amused. (I live in a townhouse development.) I am growing fonder and fonder of him. (Just adopted him and "baby kitty" last fall.) What a great old guy!! Can't believe he spent 6 months in the shelter before I took him.
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Good Morning, Lily!
You're welcome. I'll be in and out here, but staying close to home (no errands - yay!) so it's just a routine chore day.
I think you're very brave to continue to go to your assembly, despite the churning emotions and all.
That courage will be a great boost in getting you through this ordeal, Lily.
Very admirable, indeed!
Uncle Fester makes me smile just thinking about him. Fester the lamb :) You are both so blessed to have found each other... he must have been waiting for you.
We had a very large red tabby, just the same... followed me all around the yard and would always lie nearby, while I gardened. He's gone now and I miss him alot... but just very thankful to have shared so many years with him.
Hugs, Lily... thanks for sharing with me.
Hope you're having a smooth Monday!
Love,
Carolyn
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Carolyn, I just had to say -- Uncle Fester is a red tabby!!! I wish I could post pictures.
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Carolyn, I just had to say -- Uncle Fester is a red tabby!!! I wish I could post pictures.
Lily,
He really just had to be :)
They are the most extraordinary critters, I think.
I wish that I could see him, too.
We only have one cat left now and she's about 7... black and white, her mama was a tabby.
She's very sweet, but she'd never condescend to behave like a dog, you know? lol
Old Sammy just never acted like a cat about anything. He was pure love and devotion, from day 1.
Hugs,
Carolyn
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I am happy to learn that Uncle Fester is an animal and not what I thought----and old man, bent, wearing long johns with a trap door--the off white with pink style,
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Izzy, you cracked me up! So funny!! Nope, Uncle Fester is an old tomcat.
Carolyn, your babies sound so sweet and wonderful They're great, aren't they? Red tabbies are always my favorite. My "soulmate" cat, Garbo, was a red cat. She was so sweet.
...speaking of cats, I nearly forgot! My crazy friend karen here at work (things are always at a heightened level of activity for her, shall we say) called me on her way in, as she always does. She's been feeding a stray for about 2 months ... and turns out she's about going into labor.
SO -- I told her to bring the cat in to the office to have her kittens. Everyone is gone but about 4 of us (national sales meeting), so no one will know. There's a conference room right by me. We set her up and are just watching, watching, watching ... while giving her privacy.
This would only happen to Karen.
We decided to call the cat -- who is very young, probably just 8-9 months -- June. Because it's June. And she's busting out all over.
I'll keep you posted.
Anyone know anything about birthing kittens?
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LOL... Lily...
umm... Karen's not the only one who has these issues... (raising hand) LOL
I've watched kitties being birthed, but didn't really help except offer clean towels and comfort. Mama cat (the calico) seemed to know just exactly how to manage.
Hoping for a safe delivery! Y'all sure do know how to make the workplace exciting :D
Looking forward to updates here....
Love,
Carolyn
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Thanks, Carolyn. You made me smiled with the raised hand.
Will keep you posted! Karen's going to take her home at lunch and set her up in her apt. We think this would be better, although less fun and exciting.
I'll let you know if one of them is a red tabby...
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Ummmm... any progress with the kittens yet, Lily?
Now I'm a wee bit concerned.
Lighter
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Lighter,
Lily doesn't have internet at home, so we'll have to wait till she gets to work tomorrow, for the birthin report.
Carolyn
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Nothing yet, ladies! I know, I'm on pins and needles too! My friend called and said the cat kept her up all night (although I think it might have been her new boyfriend, ha, ha!), no kittens yet. But some of the signs are there.
Meanwhile Fester was a naughty boy last night. Went out walking around somewhere. But he came back. He is such a cutie!!! No one has the dignity of an old tomcat.
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:)
I can see Fester highstepping, tail with just the proper degree of curl at the tip...
orange and majestic...
:)
Thanks, Lily (((((()))))))
We lost our Sammy in an ice storm last year. I let him out to potty and we never saw him again. We were without electricity for days in a frozen winter not-a-wonderland and with so much to tend, I didn't care for him properly, I felt. He was 16.
Love,
Carolyn
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Caroylyn, I am so sorry about Sammy. How sad. I know what you mean. Lily (!!) my previous cat had a chronic condition and although I did everything possible for her most of the time, for the last year of her life I was so depressed (much of it followingi the N's first abuse episode) that I didn't care for her as much. I should have taken her to the vet and I didn't. (Also didn't have the money.) It took all my strength to get up and through my day; I just didn't seem to have enough for her. That's when I knew how bad off i was, because I always put her first in my life. She was so fragile, poor little thing. I got to the point where I was considering giving her away to someone who could take care of her ... but I couldn't. So I eventually mentally forced myself. But to this day i wonder if I killed her or shortened her life. When she died, after I got back home from all the dad-dying stuff, the first or second night I was home I sat on my bed in profound tears, begging her for forgiveness. I have never done or felt anything quite like that, so from-the-bottom-of-my-soul.
I think she does. She was that kind of cat. All giving.
She had a rare bone disease, so in all probability it would have played out the same way ... but I do feel that I could have made her last months/days more comfortable. I just wasn't capable of it, though.
...as for Fester, well, I can see him being the lead vocalist in our girl group. Let's see, we'll have to think up a name. Uncle Fester and the (his)... kitcats? No. You'll have to finish it.
...no kittens yet. I think she's going to bring her back to the office again.
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(((((((Lily))))))).... thank you. I'm so sorry you went through all of that.
Uncle Fester sings?? :o
Sure hope those kittens are almost here! : )
Love,
Carolyn
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No news on the kittens yet. Her water broke before Karen brought her into the office. She was here all afternoon but nothing... Didn't get a phone call so I guess still nothing. And Karen is off today and tomorrow so ... I'm on pins and needles.
Well, I don't know if Fessie sings, but he sure talks a lot. He's a yakker. Constantly! So maybe I could teach him to sing.
He's really good a pussyfootin' around though, lol. He was a bad boy last night. Went on another adventure. I love watching him walk around the complex. He has a certain air to him. But I don't want him to because I can't watch him all the time and he's declawed.
He's really a wuss, too. But I love him!
This subject is a good diversion. Feeling really low yesterday and today.
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((((((((((Lily)))))))))) I was just thinkin of you and there you are.
Guess those kittens just are not going to be hurried along.
Kinda like my kidlings...
each but the first finally had to be induced... two weeks after their respective due dates.
Talk about a longggg haul... lol.
Does Uncle Fester have a collar with a bell?
Sammie was declawed, too... because that was back in the day when he was our first "in - kittie" (gave him to my baby girl who is now 17!).
Never had a cat declawed since, though. At that time, just didn't realize how much they really need that defense.
Sam used to highstep... like in the snow... looked like a little orange soldier.... except each time he'd pick up a foot, he'd shake it a bit, to show his displeasure at the cold, wet stuff. lol. He was a trooper.
More hugs, Lily... hope you have a pleasant day.
Love,
Carolyn
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Thanks, Carolyn. Hugs to you too!
No, he doesn't have a bell. Maybe I'll try that. I don't think he strays far, but ... probably not a good thing.
Sammy sounds like my kind of cat!!! A little feisty??? Anyway, definitely cool.
Hmmmm... that labor sounds pretty ... long! Never done the childbearing thing so I can't commisserate. Two weeks must have been agony!
You have a good day too. Off to see my therapist.
Which, btw, it looks like it won't be a conflict of interest with the spiritual/pastoral counselor. She send me a nice email back and was glad I had mentioned it, said we would have discussed it in the first meeting anyway. Haven't scheduled anything with her yet, though. Waiting to hear back.
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::still awaiting news on healthy litter of kits::
Lighter
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Oh, my... Lily - no! It wasn't two weeks of labor... (although, thinking back, it did seem like it ~ lol)
No, it was just that 3 out of 4 went two full weeks beyond their expected date. Guess they didn't read the doc's chart :lol:
Anyhow, all was well... just when they wind up having to induce labor, it can be quite the wild ride!
Sure hope those kittens have arrived!!! And I hope you'll check in tomorrow and let us know how you're doing, too.
Love and hugs,
Carolyn
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That just proves I know nothing about childbearing, ha, ha!!
Don't have a lot of time right now, but will do a quick check-in on my other post.
NO NEWS ON THE KITTENS YET!!!!!!!!
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:o
:D
Waiting patiently! (((((((((((((Lily)))))))))))))))
Love,
Carolyn
P.S. on edit...
Since attaching photos does seem to be working, thought I'd show you dear Sammy. Here he is with old Gracie, at just about the last time we saw him, while all of the critters and us were trying to stay thawed...
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Aaawwwww, he is so smart and honorable and dignified.
Somehow I missed this on Friday -- thanks so much for posting it! I'm going to be looking at Sammy quite often. He's a looker!