Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Overcomer on July 18, 2008, 11:16:28 AM
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To all my friends on the VMB: Just got back from an international Christian retail show. I feel empty. I need a touch from God. I want to be inspired.
The one thing that jumped out at me at the conference was when a man named William Paul Young spoke about his book The Shack. He told stories of being neglected by his missionary parents and just being a screwed up man who wrote his thoughts down to his kids and now it is a runaway best seller which is quite controversial. Some people label it as heresy. I am going to read it just because I connected to HIM. He was just like me.......someone who was raised in a Christian home but was neglected by those parents. He had dysfunction just like me...............and yet, oh boy, they were Christians.
I have decided that I want to keep working at my store. Yes, I want my mom out but I am going to stop going through all the angst of waiting and fighting.....I am just going to do what I need to do to make my store a great store. I will tolerate my mom. She is losing it more and more daily and I just cannot see her being able to continue on for much longer. She was on some committee and she talked of just sitting there during the meeting and not being able to add one thing......she told me she felt removed.......................I thought..........."when my grandpa got Alzheirmer's he stopped being able to jump into a conversation.....he had to have everyone's undivided attention......" that is where my mom is. No more jumping in. Soon the conversation will become overwhelming for her.
But anyway.....I need God. I need a breath of fresh air.....I need a touch. I need to feel him...........
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Dear Kelly
As I heal inner pain, I feel more connected to God. It surprises me b/c I am studying the Bible very little ,but I feel more connected to God than ever .
Maybe, the pain blocks our connection. I am hoping that you find more peace and more of God's love,Kelly. I know it is very hard having to deal daily with an NM.My heart goes out to you. Love Ami
((((((Kelly)))))))
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Overcomer,
For what it's worth, I've always told anyone who cared that it's a miracle that I believe in God, because rightfully, I should hate religion and God and not have anything to do with either, the way my parents were with it. They were very, very devout and strict and oh my gosh, the stories I could tell you.
We weren't allowed to say "Gee" because it was too close to "Jesus," for example. But most of what they did was far worse than that.
I always say it is the very grace of God that I still love God.
Missionaries can abuse just as well as anyone else.
I don't know that I can give you a touch of God, but I certainly can and will pray that God sends you that touch, and healing. I can reassure you that God knows your name, where you are.
Love,
LilyCat
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Hi Kelly,
That older Philip Yancey book, What's So Amazing About Grace... one of my all-time favorites. An excellent refresher course in what it's all about, imo.
And I think we may have talked before about The Sacred Romance, by John Eldridge...
another winner, imo.
I've not read The Shack, but I think this article is quite well-balanced and rings true: http://www.windblownmedia.com/shackresponse.html (http://www.windblownmedia.com/shackresponse.html)
Kelly, when my Bible gets dusty, I tend to back off from prayer, too... and pretty soon there's no place left to look, but up.
So I recommend putting on your favorite praise and worship music and letting your heart get lifted to the place where faith can keep it steady.
Also, praying through the Psalms is always good medicine.
Love,
Carolyn
P.S. That song "You Raise Me Up" inspires me every time!
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Lily: sounds like our families were the same. No gosh (too close to God) No shoot.........(too close to you know what....) No butt. Just gross in my mom's eyes. I want to feel love. I want to feel close to God. I do not want my faith to be in my head only.......but in my heart. But I have become so jaded. I have focused on working with my mom and not what is happening in the lives of people who come in my store. The impact that our ministry is having on the community...
Carolyn: I have read both the Yancey book AND lots of John Eldredge.
It is the word I need to get into. Reading God's word/////////////I need to know that I know that I know that I am supposed to be at my job or not. I need to feel close to God......mostly I am preoccupied with my alcoholic H and my NM.
Today I told my daughter that as soon as my V4L money equals my h's salary I will get a divorce......
I just need to do what God wants me to do.......
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Hi again, Kelly,
You've probably read Codependent No More, by Melody Beattie.
Well, I had not read it, till now, but chapter 6 says it all, to me.
"Don't Be Blown About By Every Wind"...
just like that Scripture passage, only this one's not speaking of teachings.
It's about no longer being a reactionary.
Such good, solid help! Do you remember this part?
I ask because... you're talking about divorce, Kelly... and you're also talking about needing to do what God wants you to do.
Divorce is not the only boundary, you know? There are other firm limits and boundaries which can be set.
Now I know that I'm on thin ice, so I want to be clear to say here:
I'm not saying that you shouldn't seek a divorce.
What I'm suggesting is that what's troubling you is not your husband's drinking...
what's troubling you is your own reactionary approach to (not) dealing with his drinking.
See... if you stopped reacting and made a stand out of one firm response to this unacceptable behavior, then you'd be setting yourself free, wouldn't you?
That's what Chapter 7 says : ) Set Yourself Free.
That means - no more nagging, lecturing, screaming, hollering, crying, begging, bribing, coercing,hovering, protecting, accusing, etc,etc,etc...
just - say what you mean and mean what you say.
That's how you can take care of yourself and set yourself free from reacting to anyone else's stuff anymore.
I'm practicing it and it's working!
Just a thought.
Carolyn
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Hi OC, I found a new job, I found a wonderful apartment, I found a therapist on a sliding scale until I start making money, I have a date today, God is helping me and taking care of me. God is helping me.
I do not know if that can give you hope, but I caertainly have more hope now.
God is there, and has a perfect plan.
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I need to read the word....
Carolyn....do you think divorce is not the answer? I mean, I agree but this man drives me crazy..........something is wrong with him........
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OC, you do not need to stay connected to any toxic person, nor your husband niether your mother. God will not get mad at you because you got away from toxic people.
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Of course my hope would be that my h would miraculously change.......but as an example. I came home from Florida and today was really my first day back. I woke up to a 1/2 hour rant about his former job. How his buddy is working 12 hours a day, six days a week. Now, that wouldn't be so bad but I have already heard it before. Mostly verbatim. No, "how was your trip?" "What did you do?" There is NEVER any deep conversation.....NEVER!!
Last night I after I took a sick dog to the vet and cleaned up the house (he was home alone for four days and didn't even start the dishwasher.....still dirty from when I left and dishes piled in the sink....) Dog sick. Do you think HE could take her to the vet while I was gone? No. The sick dog had to wait for me to get home. She would have been well by the time I got home if he had taken her.
Then last night, I walked out into the garage and caught him drinking beer. He said, "I just need to relax tonight...." I said, "There is no one here but you and me, Jon, why don't you drink in the house?"
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Kelly,
Yes, something is wrong with him.
Something is wrong with everyone... and yes, he has a particularly bad case of something wrong... but he's not driving you crazy.
See, that's the statement of a co-dependent, Kelly.
I know, because It's the sort of statement I was always making (still do, at times!), when someone's behavior was regularly sending me into a tizzy.
To me, the lesson in this is... my attitude and approach are what I need to work on, even in the midst of an atmosphere loaded with people who are often not going to suit my preferences or meet my needs.
If I don't get that nailed down, then it won't matter what happens within a current relationship... I'll just keep repeating the same mistakes and find another mess to "drive me crazy". I am pretty sure the same applies to you.
Actually, I do know folks who've seemed to miraculously change. I did. I quit drinking almost 3 years ago and that was that... but I don't think that we're supposed to stay mute and wait for a miracle, any more than I think we do well by continually scolding a person about his behavior.
So I'm not suggesting that you passively sit back and pray, closing your eyes to your husband's alcohol dependency and hoping that maybe some day he'll wake up and quit drinking.
I'm only suggesting that talking divorce is not the only answer. In fact, I don't even think it's the next step.
Isn't this the time for a tough love approach?
I mean, he could find himself someplace else to live while he works toward sobriety.
Why does he have the option of continuing to drink in your home?
He even knows that he shouldn't have that option. That's why he's sneaking out to the garage.
But if there are no limits drawn to his behavior, then what incentive does he have to choose change?
Suggesting that he come into the house to drink and not hide in the garage is not a limit. Yelling at him is not a limit.
He needs serious, drastic limits... like: go to AA and individual counseling and not another drop of booze, or you're out of this home.
Or, if it's past that point: get out now, go to AA and individual counseling and not another drop... and then we will talk further about restoring our home.
Very, very difficult, heart-wrenching, firm limits which are not negotiable.
Maybe he won't choose to clean up, even then, but if he's camped out on somebody else's couch and having to clean up his own messes, at least he'd not be so cozy and enabled.
With him out of the house, you'll still have to run the dishwasher, and tend to the sick pet, and everything else you're doing right now, but at least then you know what you've got... and so does he.
And I don't say any of this from the perspective that God is going to be all upset with you if you don't handle this a certain way, Kelly. Only offering you an intermediary option which could provide relief without such drastic measures.
Yes, your husband is a problem, but he's not your problem, you know?
He's not your problem and you can't fix him.
You're not his problem and he can't fix you.
A separation could help both of you recognize that you are not each the other's critical issue. With that sort of clear vision, who knows what's possible?
Love,
Carolyn
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Oh yeah. Back to going to al anon. back to doing what I need to do regardless of what he does. doing what is good for me. that is reading the word. studying.
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Hi OC
I know that 'disturbing to angry' feeling over an alcoholic, and the total laziness that they don't mind having.
Is this your house alone, or his or both?
I sense it is your house. Might you be staying because of that? .....if you left there would be a problem getting him out?
In my life, I owned all the furniture. We were in an apartment. If I had left, he could stay and I would have forfeited my property to sell for $$$ to exist until I found work, so I had to get him to leave. He finally did.
He stayed away all week and I was gone from that town and back down south by Saturday. He came back to see me on Saturday night. He told me this when he first came to see us at my parents' place.
What are the ramifications for you, if you leave?
I had to get a new job, a new place to live and got on with second-hand furniture etc. until other things changed.
The alcohol might have damaged too many brain cells in him. I think you need him to leave?
xx
Izzy
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Kelly,
Try reading The Jefferson Bible. Thomas Jefferson basically was an agnostic (I think, not sure), but he put together his own version of the Bible. It consisted solely of the actual words that came from Christ's mouth, nothing else.
I have a copy, and when I read it, I find that the words shine. They just shine. It is so different to read them by themselves. Untampered with. Glorious.
Beautiful.
...and it's an inexpensive book. My edition is quite small.
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Never heard of it. I have a book with Bible verses that are personalized with my name. I will see if I can find it. Iz-It is OUR house but my parents gave us the down payment. I will never leave because my kids live here too and it is a 4 bedroom. Much too big for him.
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Empty. empty. is this a side affect of cymbalta?
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What do you mean, Kelly? Do you feel really empty?
Scott tried ani-depresssants and said s/thing similar. He said that you feel a sort of burring or numbing of emotions. Is that what you mean? I am sorry you are hurting.
Love Ami
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Not sad just empty. No feeling. NO HAPPY. NO SAD. NOTHING. That is why I said I need to feel God-He seems to be far away.
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Dear Kelly,
I've felt empty in the way you describe.
One promise which has meant as much to me as nearly any other is the assurance that when we draw nigh to God, He will draw near to us.
Not once, ever, has God failed. On every single occasion, when I have humbled myself in His sight, God has lifted me up.
I know for a certainty that He will do the same for you.
Love,
Carolyn
Here is a reading from Oswald Chambers' My Utmost For His Highest .... re: emotions (the March 22nd entry).
The Burning Heart
Did not our heart burn within us . . . ? —Luke 24:32
We need to learn this secret of the burning heart. Suddenly Jesus appears to us, fires are set ablaze, and we are given wonderful visions; but then we must learn to maintain the secret of the burning heart— a heart that can go through anything. It is the simple, dreary day, with its commonplace duties and people, that smothers the burning heart— unless we have learned the secret of abiding in Jesus.
Much of the distress we experience as Christians comes not as the result of sin, but because we are ignorant of the laws of our own nature. For instance, the only test we should use to determine whether or not to allow a particular emotion to run its course in our lives is to examine what the final outcome of that emotion will be. Think it through to its logical conclusion, and if the outcome is something that God would condemn, put a stop to it immediately. But if it is an emotion that has been kindled by the Spirit of God and you don’t allow it to have its way in your life, it will cause a reaction on a lower level than God intended. That is the way unrealistic and overly emotional people are made. And the higher the emotion, the deeper the level of corruption, if it is not exercised on its intended level. If the Spirit of God has stirred you, make as many of your decisions as possible irrevocable, and let the consequences be what they will. We cannot stay forever on the "mount of transfiguration," basking in the light of our mountaintop experience (see Mark 9:1-9 ). But we must obey the light we received there; we must put it into action. When God gives us a vision, we must transact business with Him at that point, no matter what the cost.
We cannot kindle when we will The fire which in the heart resides, The spirit bloweth and is still, In mystery our soul abides; But tasks in hours of insight willed Can be through hours of gloom fulfilled.