Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Lupita on July 19, 2008, 10:51:14 AM
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By the way, I have a date today. How can I find out if he is gay? I cannot just ask. Maybe if he asked me out it is because he is not gay. What if he is just looking for friends? I need friends anyway!! And what if he is not as intelligent as I would like? It does not matter, I need friends. And what if he feel overwhelmed with my personality? That is scary. I just need friends.
I do not want to borring him to death, but I do not wan to be f%&*ing Jay Leno to entertain him.
We will walk on the beach, swim in the ocean and in the pool, walk to the public beach and see street artists there, eat something, maybe have a couple of drinks, that sounds like a plan.
I do not want my heart broken like our dear Hop and I will program my self for no expectation since this right moment, no expectations, zetro expectations, just friends, just just just friends.
Enjoy the present and detach from the results, who cares what happens later, just enjoy.
Hmmmm, easy to say, let us see if I can do it. My mother might destroy this beginning friendship I suspect. I have to be careful.
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Dear Lupita
You crack me up --F##king Jay Leno.Lupita, I think your ONLY problem is not enough trust in yourself. You have a great personality . I never realized how funny you were until recently.
Lupita, I think you have it ALL, but YOU don't know it(sigh). That is the dilemma for children of N's.
It is important what YOU think of the guy not vice-versa. That is what a good mother would say, so *I* will say it. Ami
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Hi Lupita
How was your date?
I truly hope it went well.
Love
Izzy
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Thank you Izzi for sking. I will tell you everything about it.
Ami, thank you for your response. I agree with you that we have to think that we are great. That is difficult, you know that.
My dear CB123, you are so nice, I cannot believe that you are engaged to a Mexican. That sounds difficult mixture of cultures, but if you are overcoming that, you will do wonderfully. Thank you for your thoughtful, insightful response.
The date went wonderfuly. He was fun, nice, and respectful. We went clubbing and walk on the beach for hours, and had dinner too.
After he left, I was totally sad. Not understanding why I was sad and feeling so much shame. As if I had done something dirty. I did not do anything bad, but I felt like I did omsething bad. He turns me off everytime that he appears to be weak, when he whines, (he is a human being), when he says that he is getting tired of so much walk, (He is diabetic and overweight) when he says he cant do this or the other, and when he just does whatever I want. He is a human being. Intelligent, educated, he has a master degree, he is looking for a job here and he is retered after 30 years of work somewhere else. But when he feels shy and timid he totally turns me off. Is is not good looking, not even average, but I do not care about that. He is in some way wierd, but I am wierd too.
But, then, an outgoing, confidente, dominant man, which usually turns me on, is not good either.
I was parying the Lord to bing me a nice man with a education, and there he is and I am totally turned off by his kindness, and his weakness, and I do not even know why.
:(
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hi Lupita,
I'm glad you had fun, and sorry about how you felt afterward.
He is too old to whine
It appears his boundaries are weak, because he ought to have nicely said, "I think this is far enough for me as we have the return trip as well!"....something like that.
So shy and timid, too, can mean he is afraid to speak up re his boundaries?
Maybe you felt badly because you walked him too far? That's all I can see, unless you felt judgemental over the above issues?...and it was, after all, a first date!
What do you think?
Love
Izzy
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Izz, I agree he is too old to whine.
I still do not know the dirty feelings association with my sadness with his friendship. I still dont know if it is that he is weak or his physical aspect or what bothers me. But I know that he is nice and respectful, and educated.
I satrt to think that it is his childish behavior, it bothers me when a man 58 behaves like a child. You are write that he is too old to whine.
Yesterday Sunday I had veisitors and had a great day and at the end of the day I was extremely depressed and did not understand why, when I had a wonderful day.
Because I did not have the response I wanted, I am so childish. I asked my visitor, a very nice lady, when did she want to repeat our adventure again, we had a wonderful time because we walked to a beach that was considered an island and we walked to ti and it was very exciting, still she did not answer when she wanted to come back, but my date from last night he wanted to come back immediately, and i WAS sad. I do not know why I felt sad, almost about to cry with chest pain for sadness, I felt abandoned.
Why? I dont know. Maybe because I did not see my son this weekened, but again that is not reason enough to feel so sad. The date has something to do with it.
I started to think that something happened to me when I was a child that I do not remember but makes me feel sad when I am with a physically not very attracted man, it happened to me in the past that I had a date with a man who did not look well and I was extremely depressed after the date and felt avandonement.
But if the ugly man is mean I do not feel that sad. I only feel sad if the ugly man is nice. Abandonement is what I feel.
It has someting to do with my mother becuase she makes me feel something like that, abandonement.
CB I agree with you. You cannot get only juice and you have to eat a little of the outside of the fruit. I do not believe in marriage and I do not want marriage. No!
But at this moment I want a friend that I can see regularly but I do not want joined accounts or marriage or be responsibl for him. NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I can hardly be responsible for my self.
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Lupita - could you be sad because in some way when you were young you were punished if you had fun. Did your mother accuse you of being bad when you dated when you were young. I am finding great help by looking inward about this pain I have been feeling so long.
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Hi SS, thank you for your response. You might be just right. That is definitely a possibility and it is part of the problem. My mother hated when I was happy. She did everything she could to ruin anything I did.
But I do not know if that is the only reason. It does not happen when I am with a handsome man that I like very much. When I am with a date that I like a lot, I do not feel sad.
So, it is difficult to understand. I felt sad with my husband too, and he was very very good looking.
The only progress I have made is that now I understand why I feel the way I feel at work and why I react in a certain way with coworkers and bosses.
Now, I have to find out why I feel sad with a date that does not feel me in psychologically. No chemestry and I feelsad. Chemestry and I am going to be abused, OMG.
I rememebr I had a step-father many years ago, (I had several) who was very picky with the boys I dated. I had a little boyfriend, I was 13 at that time who was of indian origen, with an indian name. My step-father was white with blonde hair and he was mocking me for the appearance of my friend. Everybody joined him and I was picked on by all my family. I think, there is something there, but I am not sure. It is not the appearance what makes me feel sad. It is the personality. Strong perosnalities make me pfeel wonderful, weak men make me feel horrible. It is like an allergy towards weak men. But then a stron man is going probably be abusive oir controlling, or I do not knwo what and that is not good either.
It is very difficult. But I am now sure, it is not apearance, it is personality. To me, it is personality. Because this man is nice but he is so weak, he is diabetic, he had a heart attack, he is constantly afraid, he has to stop becuase his knee hurst, that, turns me off completely. I told him and I saw his face going very sad.
My therapist told me that I am not responsible for him, I am only responsible for my self.
I am confused now.
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Wow. That is amazing Lupita. I think you are really figuring things out. Fantastic! YOU were humiliated for liking a gentle, kind, but weak man and that has stayed with you. You associate strong men with being controlling and oppressive and it seems like there is nothing in between.
That makes a lot of sense. I think you are really figuring things out.
I am hoping this visit from your mother will actually help you figure a few more things out. Think of it as an experiment and when the tension gets thick have an escape plan. Plan what you will say to your mother and what you can do - like go out on the beach alone until you can clear your head or collect your thoughts and remember that this time with her is an experiment and won't last long. Good luck.
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I thought I should not see him again and he probably is thinking the same. We know we both nedd strong liedership in our lives and I cant provide that nad he cant either, or so I think.
Very confused about that.
I prayed so much for a nice man and I get it and I only find thousands of deffects in him. But he is nice. Just too weak, like Izz said too old to be whining.
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Hi SS, I think that I am sad because the summer is ending and I did not get in to public school. I do not have any money and I am going to have to take a summer loan for teachers and be all hurt all year long trying to pay it.
Thta is the main reason. Though I was always sad after having fun with men. Alwasy extremily sad, even with my husband. THat has to be with my mom I guess.
Thank you for your opinions SS, I really could use all the help I can get.
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He called me for a date today and I told him that he was welcome to join me with some other friends I wanted to go out tonight. He said, forget about today.
He just wanted to be alone with me. Why is that? Hmmmmm....... I am not ready. Not yet. So I have decided to no date him anymore, just to be a friend.
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Gosh, Lupita....
so many confusing emotions, surrounding the DATING subject.
Sorry it's so hard.
I also believe you'll get used to being treated well/nicely... if you can just be around it enough, no matter the discomfort it causes at first.
One day you'll turn around and realize you've become rather fond of having people be nice to you.
Lupita
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Thank you Lighter, for your respnse. I was looking forward to your thoughts.
I decided to tell him that we can only be friends. He is too negative and I do not want to be set back in my progress.
I need positive people around me. With time I will attract positive people. My mom is here and she also sets me back. But I am discovering many things.
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Yikes.... I remembered your mother wasn't going to visit.
Don't let her negative thoughts through your helmet, my dear.
Treat her the way you want the relationship to be and detach as best as you can.
(((Lupita)))
Lighter
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Hi guys,
I have had a few coffee dates with a guy who is respectful and pleasant BUT there is no chemistry for me, don't know about him! He is very different to XN and my usual type of guy so not sure at all about this. We are meeting up again this week. I am wondering is the fact that I don't feel any chemistry a sign that he is ok or what? We usually meet up for an hour, talk about politics or some such and then thats it. I come away thinking what was that about? I don't have any contact with him inbetween meetings because I am just too busy and want to stay focused on what my work.
He lives in the country with lots of animals, which was how I lived with XN and to be honest I could not care less if I ever again saw another animial at this stage (sorry all you animal lovers out there). He seems sensible, grounded and respectful, what I say I want in a man but it just leaves me cold..........HELP all you experienced daters out there.
Could it just be as simple as I am not attracted to him and big thing for me - he doesn't make me laugh. In fact our "dates" are so serious they remind me of meetings - is this what grown dating feels like?
axa
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Dear Axa
I have wondered about your question. I think I would want chemistry ,even if it is "sick calling to sick". Ami
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I think that forcing yourself to sit through dates with nice guys is just the prelude to adult relationships.
It actually begins when you're not seeing the nice guy any more.....
find yourself shocked to miss him....
and even more shocked that you're ringing him up for a date. ::shock::
That's the beginning of an adult relationship, IMO.
Lighter
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Hi Axa, I really relate to what you have posted as a response here. And I know that if I feek chemestry, it is bad, period. I mean, bad for me. That I know for sure.
Lighter, it is scary to think in a mature relationship. Before we can do that we have to end the victim status and stop te sign of abuse me in the ofrhead and have the sign of do not even try, and stop the childish behavior of I need somebody to protect me, because that is one of the first things abusers use to abuse people who are needy and want to be protected by others instead of protecting their self.
Ami, I want chemestry too, but I know it is sick to sick, and I do not want to get in trouble.
I am confused.
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There is a lot of wisdom in that ,CB. Ami
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Don't let her negative thoughts through your helmet, my dear.
Treat her the way you want the relationship to be and detach as best as you can.
Lighter
This helped me alot, right now. Thanks, Lighter.
Lupita, I hope you'll share what you're learning through this visit by your mother... when you can.
Thinking of you.
Love,
Carolyn
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((Carolyn)) I'm sending a prayer, whatever your challenge right now..... a little prayer.
CB..... insightful stuff, that.
::nodding::
Lighter
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Just a quick note to say I am coming back to this and appreciate this thread but so busy, will come back at the weekend. Hi CB, been a while!
Axa
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Hi Axa and Lupita,
I think that people are not who they really are for the first few months of a relationship. So, a person who comes across "good" may be not so good when you get past the first several dates. One of the reasons we may find "good" guys boring is because they are more carefully constructed to show only their "good" sides--and that makes it harder to really connect with them.
I think the degree of dangerous has to do with us. How sick we are. If we don't let the relationship progress so fast that they come barreling into our hearts before we have a chance to see who they really are, I think we minimize the danger. I think that our sickness is that we have poor controls in that way. I don't think that we are blind to who we should let in, but we let them in before we KNOW who they are.
If someone bores you, like Lupita's guy, then don't bother with them. But, if you really want to give someone a chance, learn to enjoy them as a person before they become a romantic interest. And even as a romantic interest, let the relationship develop slowly. I think that's really hard for us and that may be the biggest problem.
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If you try to figure out who the person is from a distance, so you can give away your heart safely at the beginning, I don't think you are going to ever feel safe.
Lupita, what if you went out with this guy without thinking about whether he's the kind of guy you are looking for? If he gets tired of walking on the beach, do something else with him. If you can't find anything else that you both enjoy, then the relationship will just end on it's own. (sounds like you are kinda doing that by inviting him with your friends. He doesnt want to do that, so that's one less experience you can share with him. If he invites you to something, and it's not something you enjoy, then that's another less...)
The guy I'm with, on the other hand, is someone that I enjoy being with on a lot of different levels. I really enjoy working with him, I like traveling with him, I like having coffee with him, talking to him. He is great with my kids, and I really like his kids. Where I can see that we will bog down is if we shared a home. I would start seeing him as "bad" because we are very different in the way we run our home lives--and it would make me feel taken advantage of. But he's not a "bad" guy.
It seems to me that it would be impossible to figure out from the beginning of the relationship what kind of person the guy is, so I can decide if I want to completely abandon myself to him. I feel more safe at this point in my life, in this relationship, than I did in my marriage. I think that has more to do with me, than with the guy. The guy I'm dating has some of the same traits as my ex (without the narcissism--one thing THAT has taught me is that everything negative in my relationship with exN was not narcissism. Some of it was just irritating non-narcissism stuff.) BUT, the negative traits don't hit me the same way because I don't take them personally. I havent decided whether that is because I am dealing with a non-narcissist, or whether I am growing up.
Ok I invited him with friends, he did not want to. He only wants to be alone with me. He does not want to dance, he does not want to walk, I am going to try comedies. He only wants to be sitting and eat, he wants to be alone with me at my apartment, and I do not wnat that, not at all, not now. He is very negative. I do not want to date him just because he is the only one that has been itnerested in me seriously. That is not fair to him. I think I am going t be friends only for a little time and then we'll see. The only thing that makes me doudbt is that he is willing to got o church for me, and that is really moving to me.
There is another guy. He was the maintenance guy in my old apartment. One day he changed a faucet and left a note with his phone number. I called him and he said he wanted to go out with me. When I said I wanted to go dancing he said that he did not dance and he only wanted a companion to stay at home. :evil: I know what that means. I told him that dancing is a major part in my life and he never called me again. He just called me again after I moved. He wants to try again.
There is another guy, I will talk about him later.
wow CB you always amaze me. If you took a councelor career I would kill to be one fo your patients.
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I'm glad you aren't forcingt yourself to go out when you don't want to.... or stay in.
Enforcing your boundaries is a good thing, Lupita.
Stating your needs and not allowing them to be dismissed is good too.
Keep dancing, my dear.
Light
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Hi Lighter, I miss you. How are you?
Lazy guy called me again. I told hime very honestly that I would "love" to see him but just sit and eat is not my thing. If he wanted to go out with me he had to do something, like walking or hiking.
He said he would call me back,. He has nto called back so far.
The other has nto called either.
I am too busy with new job and have not gone dancing.
Love to yuo.
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Hmmm, Lupita.
Remember how I said that people are on their best behavior in the first several months? Take a look at this guy's behavior and think about the fact that this is his BEST.
If he wants to isolate you now, have you all to himself, not want to do anything but "be" with you--what will he be like when the "new" wears off? Controlling? Isolating?
There's a lot worse than "boring" and he could be worse. Don't try to hard to salvage this one--he may be one you want to throw back.
Sounds like your job is interesting and challenging. Do you like it? How does it compare with the last one? Do you feel incredibly FREE to be out of that last school????!!!!!!
Love to you, Lupita,
CB
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Hi CB, thank you so much for your insightful thoughts. I have not gotten to that stage where you attract nice people. Until this point I have a sign for N men without any insight. But hoe can we attarct ncie men? It is difficult. There are more women than men, and many of them are homosexual, so every man has several women and one gay man if interested in that, so, it is not good market, worse than the realtor market at this point and age of us.
Wherever I go there are many women and few men. I mean the church, or library or musiem, or cultural events. I refuse to go to bars, nothing good comes out of that.
So, the hope to meet someone is very low. I mean statistically speaking.
But the thing is to be prepared when if a miracle comes and we meet somebody nice and recognize the opportunity that might never come back again.
I read somewhere that one in every ten people has a personality disorder. Even in here the board we have several thousands of memebers and several hundreds of those have a personality disorder. So, on top of that you add the scarcity of men. They die first, and more, and they are born less,statistically speaking.
Even after born, boys die more than girls.
So, the panorama is not good. Sometimes I think that if we want to have somebody in our lives we need to be not so picky, but at the end I think that it is better to be alone rather than with someone with a personality disorder, not having somebody just to have a corps sitting on the sofa drinking a beer ad watching the football game and totally ignoring our presence, hmmm, no, I do not want that, for that, I prefer to stay alone.
OK, CB, what do you think of this?
My love to you, and my admiration too.
How is your business going? Are you going to become rich? Maybe you will not talk to us when you have a franchize and we have to beg you to let us have your brand of food. Maybe a cooking TV program, who knows, you are going to be a very successful woman, my cristal ball is telling me that.
Love to you.
Lupita
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Thank you so much for updating us about your business. It is incredible. I am telling you woman, you are going to be very successful. My intuition tells me so.
It is fresh air to my face to hear that you are doing well without advertising. It gives me hope. Maybe one day I will do it too.
About sharing the bathroom, how come some women are so desperate for having the corps sitting on the sofa, that they do not care, do you rememebr of my thread "The teddy bear"?
Imagine that you are in the bathroom making intestinal noises and yuor couch potato yelles at you, "Honey, are you OK"? I am not willing to give away my privacy, anyway, I am going out tonight with lazy boy, but he is going to do a three hour walk, or I do not go out with him. I told him, sitting and eating is not my thing.
Thank you CB for your response.
Love you.
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I ended up all my dates. Not worth it.
R was a liar. He was misrepresenting him self. If you meet somebody in a walking club, you have reasonable expectations that he is goign to like to walk. He only wanted to sit and eat. He accepted reluctantly to walk and he strated bleeding from a toe. he is not used to walk, he did not have the appropriate shoes although I told him that that was what we were going to do. I told him that I did not want to eat and that I do not like to eat at night and the first thing he said was "I am hungry, I need to eat" I called him a CC because he could not even walk. And he said I was being unreasonble. I said I was looking for friends and he said "good luck with that, I already have enough friends, I am looking for lovers".
If he just said that before, I would have never gone out with him. So, the point, I am not going to have a coach potato as boyfriend, I cant stand it.
The other two, same thing. They do not want to exercise, do not want to diet, etc. I am not going to lower my standards just to have a corps sitting on my soffa.
I live on the beach, I can swim, walk on the beach, do many things. I do not need a corps sitting on my soffa.
Hope that somebody relates to this. I know of many women that do anything to have a man in thier house. I have been alone for almost 20 years now.
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It sounds like you're becoming more comfortable in your skin, Lup.
Finding peace with being alone.... instead of being lonely.
I think that's the best place to find new friends.
A place of want..... instead of need.
Don't lower your expectations....
keep doing what makes you happy.
The rest,
will come.
Lighter
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Yes Lighter, I feel more comfortable in my skin. What is happening with me? I do not know. It has a little to do with everything.
Detachment, Wayne Dyer, this board, ten session with a therapist, books, and and intense desire to change.
The first symptome that I was changing was mt feet.
I have very ugly feet. And I hated them. Since I came to live on the beach, you have to go bare foot to the beach and to swim and to the pool, etc, and I noticed that althoug I cannot model in TV a product for feet, there is nothing wrong with my feet, they are just too fat, but they take me everywhere and they are healthy, so I started to just do not care to cover my feet.
That was the first syptom that I was getting better. More comfortable about me. Incredible.
One of my dates mistreated me verbally. I did not start looking for what I did wrong. I just was happy when he left and I knew that he was a waco, and was happy he left. I knew I did not do anything wrong and that was his problem and another firnd told me that he was very happy that that waco psyco just left and did not to anything to me.
That was something else that let me to believe that I am getting better.
I know I am not a bad daughter. My mom is a bad mother and she does not love me. I am not bad. I know that now.
A lot of growinmg and imporvement.
Thank you Lighter for your kind response.
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((((Lupita))))
You sound good.
All that pain leads to better places.... and you seem to have found one.
There will be ups and downs.... just know the ups will come again and keep going.
Lighter
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Thnk you Lighter for your insightful thoughts.
Well, I had my walking club coming to my apartment on the beach soe we have a fibe mile walk on the beach.
For the first time I felt comfortable and I was pleasing people just for the peasure of pleasing not for the neediness of being aproved. But for the dilightful experience of having people an enjoy company.
Also, I walk bare foot with everybody and nobody gave any look to my feet.
Yes, Light, I am feeling more comfortable in my skin.
God bless this board.
Lupita
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Cute feet.
Very cute feet.
(((((Lupita's pudgy toes...))))
Hops
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I have a date right now. He is coming to swim and we are going to the pool. Hmmm, I am getting paraboid. He mnight want to get insurance and kill me or maybe just needs a place to live.
Dont know why I feel that way.
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Oh dear, Lupita:
Let us know how it went and please remember.....
your boundaries will be your best defense against future bad situations and relationships.
If you figure out healthy boundaries, put them in place and honor them.....
you'll refuse to let someone cross the first small line.
Remember..... don't make excuses, not the first one, for bad behavior.
Don't become confused by bad behavior, esp if someone's trying to blame you for something awful they did.
KNOW that it's crossing a boundarie and that's a deal breaker.
Walk away and you'll have room in your life to say YES to something worthy.
Lighter