Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: spyralle on August 03, 2008, 05:29:31 AM
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Hello everyone,
I haven't been around because I have been really struggling very badly since I was last here and I am very worried about my state of mind. I have got to the point where I can't look in the mirror because I hate myself so much. i have made 2 appointments to have a facelift as i can't live with myself feeling this ugly. I feel like my life has come to a grinding halt and I have got nowhere left to go. My insides are continually churning and I feel sick all the time. My partner is in Sri Lanka having a fantastic time at his brother's wedding. Remember.. the one I wasn't invited to... I don't want to be in this world any more.. I just need a place where I can say that. I'm not going to do anything as I have a daughter and a grandchild.. I just need to be able to say it as the thought is always there.. I'm sorry to dump this on you.. but I have to be honest somewhere in my life..
Spyralle
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Spy,
I am so sorry to hear you are in such a bad place. What can I say except get online and write more or else arrange to meet with a friend. Are you seeing a therapist? Do you have a good friend you can talk to? This sounds so mundane but fast walking for an hour or so always helps to pull me out of the dark places, it just changes my energy and going to a good movie, which I am sure you do not feel like doing, but those few hours away from your own head, helps to rest the negativitly.
I am thinking of you today,
axa xxx
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(((((Spyrelle))))))
I am so sorry you are hurting.You are right to think of your daughter and grandchild. That will keep you centered enough not to hurt yourself. It is OK to have those thoughts of wanting to die. I think we all do. It does not mean that you WILL hurt yourself. You are dismayed and feel despairing. I certainly feel that way, too, at times.
Having had M's lke ours,, it is hard to overcome the old messages of worthlesness. They replay when we are vulnerable. I am really glad you reached out. You did exactly the right thing. Keep reaching out .You are not alone. Ami
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Yes-I am just getting to the point where I do not consider myself fat and ugly. I had the lap band and my eyes done. What has helped me is changing the way I view my mom. Suddenly I realized that she is not God and she has no power over me! I even had two glasses of wine at a birthday party. First time EVER! SPY-you are beautiful-the mirror is lying to you!
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I so throughly understand where you are at, I too was there just a short time ago. Now I'm just in a state of oblivion. I guess it's better than hurting so bad. The point is, things do change and I'm hoping for the day I can find enjoyment again. I wish this for you too. Set some small goals and please report to those of us here that have been in the same position. I too need to lose weight, have a face lift, just about anything, but until I feel better about myself I can't even begin to take those on. I had come so close to the end, but like you I have children and grandchildren. I didn't want to leave that as my legacy. Please find strength to take care of you....!
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Dear Spy,
Just wanted to say as s/one who has lived through a loved one's suicide ,it is the most horrible act for the living to try to survive.
Ami
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I have to tell you that your agony and pain helped me to see the wrong of it.....not that I didn't know, but it came at the exact time I was so low. My prayers are with you always.
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((((Spy)))))
::sending you mommy love and a cup of cyber hot tea::
I hope these dark moments lift soon.
Lighter
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I have got to the point where I can't look in the mirror because I hate myself so much. I have lived in this state for 8 to 10 years quite some time ago. When I look back, I see that the reality had nothing to do with my perception. The pain was indescribable. I wish someone had cared enough to help me see the reality. Could another person have helped? I still believe so - if they had not given up inspite of my protestations. Can we help you alter your perspective? Would you allow us to. I think we can help.
i have made 2 appointments to have a facelift as i can't live with myself feeling this ugly. I feel like my life has come to a grinding halt and I have got nowhere left to go. Does this plastic surgeon require a psychological profile. Many do. It is so important that you get an objective perspective on whether the surgery will give you what you need. Deep in your heart do you believe this has to do with your physical appearance or with you psychological or emotional self-image.
My insides are continually churning and I feel sick all the time. I live that life and know how exremely painful that is. That is what I am dealing with step by step each minute. It is draining, without a doubt.
My partner is in Sri Lanka having a fantastic time at his brother's wedding. Remember.. the one I wasn't invited to... I can't help but wonder what is going on with your relationship. I have always worried about how he treated you and your reponse to his treatment. From what you wrote about it, it seemed that he did not value you the way you deserve and that your drive to be connected was stronger than your need to take care of yourself.
I don't want to be in this world any more.. I understand that place. I have been there more than once in my life. It hurts!!! You don't want to be but you feel like you have to be, like you owe it to your daughter and grandchild. I'm glad they are keeping you here but it is time for you to recognize and acknowledge that YOU deserve better. You are so low that you no longer even believe you deserve better but you do. You seem so low that something is better than nothing but it's not. I hope you can begin to shift your perspective so that you can see that you deserve and need better and that you can have better. Some part of you definitely knows that - that part of you has made that appointment for plastic surgery. That part knows you deserve better. That is the part of you that you can tap into and find more ways that you KNOW you deserve better.
We have these voices that we have internalized. They are very, very negative. They were not ours to begin with but we took them in and let them become ours. Now we must root them out, label them as the lie that they are and replace them with the truth - that we are good people who deserve happiness and love and acceptance.
I'm sorry to dump this on you.. but I have to be honest somewhere in my life.. I have found this board to be an excellent dumping ground. There is almost always someone or more who is able and willing to listen and to be there and to understand. It is only through sharing and being heard that we can heal. It is time to bring those internalized voices to the surface and to destroy them and replace them with the truth. The greatest irony is that the truth, the wonderful, life-giving truth is very difficult to hear and the life-destroying lies are more comfortable. It takes determination to kill the lies and feed the truth. It no longer comes naturally to us but the battle is worth it, however hard it may be.
Love to you and willing to hear all you have to dump - Shame Slayer
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Spyralle........Can you look into your past and find those people who hurt you and how they hurt you, maybe your parents? Can you find your anger at this and then REBEL against them. I found, my self hate was the internalized hate my parents abused me with but I carried it forward and once internalized I was relieving their hatred without them being around, unconsciously replaying their hatred over and over against myself. I refused to see this b/c underneath I was still afraid of them, still today, caught in the past of my child, living out his helpless and hopless reality without realizing I am an adult now. When I rebelled and chose to see them for who they are/and what they did I started the healing process by facing reality and found my child's anger (fighting back and defending myself)My self hatred was a lie, it actually was my parents hatred inflicted on someone so small an innocent that I could not fight back then. I can now and I have healed a majority of my depression and self hatred.and perhaps the best thing of all is that I have lost my feelings of dependency and helplessness............Best Wishes, James
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Dear Spy,
What is iniside your soul is what is the most beautiful of all.
I'm so sorry that you are hurting so much right now and I just wanted to say that I see the beautiful you that you are not so aware of right now. Your honesty is a giant part of that beauty.
Sending you a very large big giant ((((((((((((((((hug)))))))))))))))))) and hoping the wise words of many here will help you to feel better very soon.
Sela
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Thank you everyone for your support. I just want to get out what the therapist just said as I have just come from there. Just going to blurt it all out so it might not make any sense. She says I have made him into perfection and put him on a pedestal, and I have made myself into his slave... a grovelling worm... (that came from some Jungian theory). She says there are lots of parts of me.. The independent capable woman battling with the wounded child who is self destructing. She was exploring the whole ugly thing and how it has manifested itself since I started going out with him.. I feel less than and he lets me in fact he actually encourages it somehow..i.e watching TV the other night there was a blonde attractive woman getting on for my age and a young 21 yr old brunette, perfect in every way. He said that he didn't know why anyone would find the blonde woman attractive.. He said that the brunette was beautiful.. I am blonde I am older.. Was he calculating or did he not know?
I try to feel better and the ugly stuff comes and bites me hits me square on the nose and says..."Who are you to feel better about yourself.. Who are you who dares to ask for a real relationship with someone who just loves you... who are you who dares to feign independence and inner beauty.... How laughable is it that you could even think that you are good enough.. look at your sagging face... Look at your drooping eyes look at your lines and weep because that is all you will ever be.. And don't ever dare go to that hopeful place again.. You know what you are.. NOT GOOD ENOUGH!!!!! UGLY UGLY UGLY..... Now put down your weapons and go crawl back into your hole and JUST DIE!!!!! How could you think he would care about you, this adonis of a man... so perfect in every way.. Look at him.. with his beautiful hair and his fantastic vice. This man who loves shakespeare.. so educated so untouchable so out of your league. How could you have been so foolish.... Now lock yourself away from the world and torture yourself... or let him torture you while he finds something better..... and then he will discard you AND YOU WIL DESERVE IT!!!!!!!"
Over and over these are the sort of ruminations that haunt me until it becomes unbearable.. And so my life passes me by because that keeps me in prison. My therapist talks about being my anchor... Giving me a mirror in which to see my true self.
And he is still in Sri Lanka. I have convinced myself he is walking hand in hand on the beach with a dark and mysterious beautiful girl... and I stay here alone and bury myself..
My therapist says I need to break the cycle... I do this over and over.. She wants to help me stop... She says I might have to let him go.. She tells me a story of another client who was with a man who only liked indian women.. The client had booked a series of operations to change her body shape, hair colour... the colour of her eyes... She says that girl is now living with a man who loves her for what she is.. She tries to give me hope and hold my hand through it all. She says that he has triggered some trauma in me which is why I am reacting so deeply. I tell her it is no good that when I leave the room the monster is out there waiting for me in the mirror.. She says I need to fight harder. She gives me a quote to hold onto....."Make your distance my journey".. I think I understand...
Spyralle
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"Who do you think you are?" is the N mother. Do I know that line. Boy, do I understand, Spy. I wish I didn't! Ami
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Any man who would - consciously or UNconsciously - encourage you to feel such things about yourself is FAR FROM PERFECT.
And you DON'T - no one does - deserve such treatment.
Not for any amount of relationship.
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((((((Spyralle))))))))))))
Your therapist is very wise. It is wonderful that you have her.
You sound very depressed to me. Do you take any ADs??? It might help you. Has she ever mentioned trying medication? They did help me immensely. Do you have any other contributing factors? I know I felt a lot as you did when I was drinking. It was also a cycle... something I did over and over to hurt myself.
There is no perfect other person. You are seeing your partner through some sort of warped vision. He may be handsome and may have a great voice... maybe all the things you say. And maybe he is YOUR perfect idea of a man (at least physically). But I can guarantee some of those around him do not find him attractive. Maybe they even find him annoying. We each have our likes and dislikes, so ideals are only personal ideas, not true, simplistic beings. We find what we want through our desires that are built on our pasts and our individual maps. Your adonis fits some want you have - and part of that want may be to suffer. You may be afraid NOT to suffer. It is what you are used to and what you expect.
So... at some point you will have to really decide what it is you want in life and in a relationship. You can choose to suffer and be depressed. You can choose to give up some ideals and find a person who is whole and honest. You can choose to grow to love yourself before you give your amazing soul to another person.
((((((((((((((((((((((Spy))))))))))))))))))))
Love, Beth
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My mother just rang. I told her how depressed I was and how ugly I felt.... she said..... "I WISH I WAS DEAD...."
I just put the phone down...
Spyralle
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Hello Spy-
I go to Domestic Violence group and have a wonderful counselor. One of the exercises that she has all of us do, young and older alike, is "mirror work." It sounds silly, but give it a try for a few weeks- it is very powerful. Every time that you look in the mirror, look at yourself, smile and say "I LOVE YOU" It may seem strange at first , but after a week you will be programming a new reaction to yourself and a new sense of yourself from the inside out.
Eventually, you will be able to see the unique beauty that you possess- right now you are feeling something like what an anorexic feels- a false sense of self imposed from without, when they willing to starve to death because they are ashamed of being "fat" - actually there is no fat, only unreal beliefs.You are lovable, and must start with loving yourself- when you do, the false labels form without will burn away, and you will be able to commune with people who se the real you, instead of shying away and bonding with those who resonate with the false images...
When you see yourself clearly and love yourself, you may not have any further patience with fools who do not value you as they should...and you may become attracted to a new guy who sees the real and beautiful you , and tells you so... Of course, the most important thing is that you know yourself as the lovely person that you are.
Keep the mirror work up for a few months so that you reprogram your reactions !!!! Be sweet to yourself!!!
Love and Peace,
Changing
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I have to say Changing that that terrifies me.. I have been staring in the mirror all night.. Just mesmorised at everything that is wrong with me. I can't see past that.. but I wil try
Spy x
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Spyralle - I am thinking about you. I am very glad t here about your therapist. Sounds like you have a good one and you deserve it. You deserve to be surrounded by people who love you and encourage you and who can mirror for you the beauty that you no longer can see. The wounding you have experienced has damaged your self-understanding, your self image. What you see when you look in the mirror is a complete distortion. You see one thing and everyone else sees another.
It is time that you get a new mirror. You deserve that. I am thinking of you. Love - Shame Slayer.
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Spy.......If you like to read I recommend a book by Alice Miller, "For Your Own Good". The moment I read it I realized I had just witnessed the truth about my life, a watershed event. It has taken 3 yrs since then for me to achieve a great deal of healing which has transformed my life. Many people will not read her work b/c of their Fears. I will not kid you, this work can be very painful but the results are amazing and lasting. These are very real because they are based on facing reality rather than denying it............James
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Dear Spy,
Only now, with Alice Miller and an Enlightened Witness(someone who will let you feel your deepest pain and be there ) have I started to break the back of the feelings you describe.
This has just happened. I can see that it was my M who was the hollow person . *I* HAD to think I was horrible in order to survive with her.
I know, intimately, your feelings of self revulsion and disgust. I am moving away from them,now, as I feel the deep painful feelings.
It does work . Ami
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((((((((((Spy))))))))))))))
When you look at other people, do you ever think they are as ugly as you think you are? If not, that will be a great indicator that what you are seeing is false and controlled by your mind.
I can't believe your mother put her selfishness ahead of your pain. No wonder you are feeling so confused.
Spy, look around you. Don't you think all things are beautiful in some way? If they are, how can you not be???????
Lots of love,
Beth
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Spy, I agree with SS - you need a new mirror! :D
But the exercise that Changing recommends IS do-able - no matter what you see physically about yourself in the mirror. Love doesn't care what you look like... how old you are... whether you snort when you laugh... none of that stuff matters when YOU love someone else... and it shouldn't matter when someone else loves YOU, right?
So if you are practicing loving you, in front of the mirror - the very first rule to really, really look at yourself. DON'T COMPARE what you look like to anything or anyone... just try to see what REALLY is your face, physically. Draw your own self-portrait (doesn't matter at all if you can draw) without using the mirror and - THEN compare - what you see in the mirror looking at your own face...
... with how you drew yourself. Did you get the shape right? Are the eyes level? BIG QUESTION: were you able to accurately see yourself in your own mind's eye? Is the scale right? Is something more emphasized than others - is that accurate?
You'll find LOTS of clues in your drawing and it might help to take it on your next visit to your T and explain what you did and what you think/learned from doing it.
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Spy,
I am so glad you posted here. This is the place to come. We all know it; we've been there. It took a lot of courage to write that post, and I commend you.
...just a few weeks ago I 'fessed up to my group mates (and therapist) that the night after the meeting for the first harassment charges my N pastor levied against me, I came very, very close to taking a bottle of pills that I had. I had felt that way many times in the past, but it was in the distant past -- 15, 20 years. I'd felt I'd made such progress ... until this N "pastor" (I now realize the pastor part is just as fake as anything) came along.
But after I counted out the pills I looked at the label, and there was my doctor's name, and he is such a good man and a good doctor, and has been wonderful to me. I couldn't do that to him. I knew he would take it hard. So I put them away.
It took me a year-and-a-half to tell group; I still haven't told anyone else, nor will I, most likely.
I remember how relieved I felt when I told them, and how it helped far beyond my expectations. (Actually, someone elicited it out of me, I wouldn't have volunteered it on my own.) They didn't so much give me sympathy, as just really listen to how powerful the feelings were behind the urge. It helped me enormously and, I can't say it turned things around, because what I'm going through now is just too huge for that, but it certainly helped. I'm finding that the "battle" is day by day. I look for what I can and savor that as long as I can.
So, I hope sharing this with us has helped you as sharing helped me.
You are not ugly, my dear. HE is ugly. Any man that makes you feel that way about yourself is ugly. Ugly, ugly, ugly. He/they are ugly for not inviting you. He is ugly for the way he handled this. He is ugly for the way he treats you.
Beautiful men make you feel beautiful (not that I would know...) and ugly men make you feel ugly and unworthy (THAT I do know). And sometimes ugly men make you feel beautiful so they can manipulate you. (That I know also.)
I've had the same issue all my life, so maybe you'll let me share what I've learned. First, my looks have never been validated by my parents or men. For 20 years my best friend has been trying to hammer into my head -- with no success -- that I am very pretty. Recently one of my gay men friends -- gay, mind you, the critics of all critics and the final word on beauty -- was expounding on something -- oh, I know, he was trying to tell me I looked like Natalie Wood, which I don't, at all, but it was such a great thing to hear -- when he blurted out, "Let's face it. You are a beautiful, beautiful woman." Of course, I was in shock, and I don't believe it. I think he is just incredibly sweet and probably doesn't see many pretty women!!
My parents never validated this (or anything except that I was bad/inferior, whatever), so I never internalized the good part ... and as a child, I told myself I was ugly because that explained my parents' awful behavior toward me. After all, they were my parents. They were perfect (in a child's eyes). Yet they seemed not to love me. So it had to be me. And it had to be because I'm ugly. (That's about all a child knows.)
This gradually expanded into telling myself I'm ugly when anything goes wrong. I would probably be doing it more now because of the N fallout, except that every woman I know or suspect he's been involved with has been very attractive, most even "hot." (I am NOT hot!!!!) So at least he gave that to me -- I feel a little prettier than I used to.
I once read that for a woman, beauty is power. I know I have a great deal of trouble accepting that I am powerful -- it cannot be, according to my parents I am not allowed to be powerful (internalized), therefore I cannot allow myself to look as well as I could.
...and perhaps the biggest, and this is what I'm really suggesting to you, is that when I tell myself I'm ugly, or unworthy, or any big self-criticism, I am taking the anger I feel toward someone else and turning it onto myself. I know I'm afraid of anger, and I have lots of trouble expressing it, and I always feel like the responsible one (at fault) -- so there are plenty of reasons not to own the feeling and feel it. It's not that I feel anger is wrong (although that was the message from my parents), but I think I am so much more deserving of punishment than others.
So, when you start telling yourself you're ugly or giving yourself similar messages, stop and ask yourself who you're really angry at, and why.
I bet Mr. Ugly comes to mind, as well, I suspect, as your FOO.
I'm struggling with this so much right now. I lost at least 40 pounds, possibly 50, between Feb and this month. But lately I am struggling a lot with it. I have been self-soothing with food (and completely zoning out on weekends with DVDs), and I don't like it. I don't want to lose what I've done so far (or, I guess I should say gain it back.)
So when I get the urge to stuff my mouth -- which is fairly constant, when it hadn't been at all -- I try to stop myself and say "feel the rage" -- because that's what it's all about. This N raped me psychologically. What he did was heinous. But if I have trouble with anger, just think how hard it is to acknowledge the rage (which my therapist has been digging for for 15 months, and now so is the pastoral counselor).
It's the same thing with wanting to kill yourself. It's anger turned inward. So when you get these thoughts, ask yourself who you're angry at. Don't be surprised if there's a whole long list.
And BTW, here's something for you to think about: anyone who's contemplating plastic surgery wants to live, not die. So capitalize on that will.
Spy, you are beautiful, inside and out.
I wish I had the ad copy I once wrote for a skincare product. It talked about Marilyn Monroe, and her vulnerability, which was so appealing. It talked about how we now had so many ways of helping people with therapy, that perhaps she would have found the help she needed.
The bottom line was: Because women are beautiful at any age.
Spy, you are. You are, you are, you are. !!!!!!!!!
Spy, recently I read something that my pastoral counselor wrote:
God intends for and imputes to each and every individual, honor that every human being is meant to wear from the very point of birth or even before.
That is so true.
Go claim your honor. We'll all be here with you to hold your hand and walk with you.
xoxo,
Lily
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LilyCat - thank you for sharing such an intimate and personal experience. That takes a lot of courage and a lot of compassion. There have been a numnber of times in my life when I felt that life was not worth living. It was very difficult to get through those times but I have not given up on believing that the healing is right around the corner.
I want to say more to express my appreciation but the words just don't come. I do hope that you Spyralle, can see that there are people who are willing to stand with you, to go out on a limb because you are worth it. There have been times in my life when help offered by strangers was not meaningful. The only help that would have made a difference was from those who I finally acknowledge were abusing me. The double bind is that it was the strangers (as we are to you) were offering a way out, they were offering real love and the people I wanted it from were actually only offering abuse. But I could not see it then.
I so hope you will take our love and hold onto it until you are strong enough to let go of the unkindness this man gives you, until you are strong enough to believe you are worth a good person and that you will receive love from loving people when (and only when) you know and believe you are worth it. You are worth it.
You are receiving words of truth here. I know you probably would like to believe them. Follow your heart and accept the gift that is being offered you here and from your therapist and others who see the real you not the negative you.
Love to you both - Spyralle and Lily Cat.
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(((((SS))))) ((((((Spy))))))
...20 years of group therapy gets you somewhere... (able to share) LOL!