Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: guest4 on September 07, 2004, 01:45:19 PM
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Does anyone know of any NPDers or narcissists that got better as they aged and matured?
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No, they only get worst over time because it is more years they have been used to being sick, so it is harder to heal. Some will say that the reduced energy level will cause them to mellow out. But, i doubt they are genuine and all better.
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I've seen them get worse with age. I have seen none of them get better.
bunny
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....
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My two cents,
My NDad uses illness now to procure supply. He's really good at it. He oculdn't care less about anyone else's health.
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I would imagine that it depnds on the severity of the N.
My H was/is a mild N. (maybe not full on NPD, but definitely posessing some tendencies). I have seen him as very emotionally manipulative and abusive. I left him for a while, and came back to him. He has been much less narcissistic since I have been back. He has actually been delightful, and thoughtful. Ofcourse I have yet to see if this will last. It appears it might. But we who deal with Ns know that only time will tell. I have heard of men joining abuser programs and such... So, I suppose people can change. Usually, I think it requires a lot of effort on their part.
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No, they definetly don't get better. As they get older, they become closer to death, which is terrifying to them. It's the one thing they know they can't control. My father is like a snowball going downhill gathering mega speed. He's lying and becoming violent. It's a very difficult thing to accept and understand, but the sooner you do, the better for you. Best of luck. Dinny
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NPD is described in pysch. texts as an extremely rigid disorder, that is very difficult to correct.
I don't know about someone with N traits as opposed to full blow NPD, as someone else mentioned was the case for them. My X was also the same (N traits, not full blown).
Maybe those with N traits only, can come into realization that might make it easier for someone to broach the subject with them, and lead to healing, with age. I have no idea, though.
But I don't think that anyone with a major personality disorder such as full blown NPD or BPD, just naturally get better over time without any intervention/help (and many times not even with attempted help).
BT
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No they just get better at lying until they don't even know what the truth is anymore
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...
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I would imagine that it depnds on the severity of the N.
My H was/is a mild N. (maybe not full on NPD, but definitely posessing some tendencies). I have seen him as very emotionally manipulative and abusive. I left him for a while, and came back to him. He has been much less narcissistic since I have been back. He has actually been delightful, and thoughtful. Ofcourse I have yet to see if this will last. It appears it might. But we who deal with Ns know that only time will tell. I have heard of men joining abuser programs and such... So, I suppose people can change. Usually, I think it requires a lot of effort on their part.
I'd like to hear more about your story...it sounds a lot like mine. My ex had definite narcissistic tendencies, but it seems he has healed with the help of his new wife and first child. He is ecastic about the birth of his first baby, and I have heard that having a child assuages their fear of abandonment.
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Hello everyone,
I have been married for 2 1/2 years, to a man who has increasingly been displaying N tendencies, but I would be hard pressed to categorize him as having full blown NPD. I have been daunted many times in what I've read on this condition, in that a marriage to someone with NPD is not possible, that in order to survive I must get out. Yet, I have been encouraged by a couple of posts in this particular thread, by wives who have husbands with mere tendencies and not the the full blown NPD. Would those of you who are married to someone with mere tendencies and not full blown NPD, please post and share your lives please. I do not want to end my relationship with my husband. I want to be able to present this to him and give him the choice to try and do what he can in correcting his poor behaviour. If he chooses to not change and continues to get progressively worse, then I will call it the end, but not before I have given him a fair shake on this whole matter.
Thank you!
Sue
Susannah4Yah@Yahoo.com
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Susannah,
Your best bet is couples therapy with a smart therapist. Let the therapist tell him the painful things. If you tell him, he will likely ignore you or get defensive and nothing constructive will come out of it. I think a therapist is needed here; in my experience it makes a big difference.
bunny
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Thank you Bunny. We will be having a small road trip this next Tuesday and I will approach him with a highlight of what I've discovered, with an ultimatum to seek help or face the breakup of our marriage. I HATE being a toughlove person, but don't want to let this go on forever.
~~Susannah
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Susanna, and Guest40 (as I am the guest who you copied and wanted to hear more about)
Susanna,
I can identify with a strong desire to save the relationship.
For the first two years of my marriage (which were characterized by good times and really really sucky times) I sacraficed my physical and mental health because I believed my husband could change. I still believe husbands with N tendencies can change, and that it depends on the severity of the Narcissism.
First, please, please, please, be sure that you have a lot of support outside of your marriage! Tell good friends who will listen and offer support for whatever you decide. Don't be silent. Don't worry about his reputation. They are your support network. N's can keep you from having support if you worry about their reputation. If he ruins his reputation by the things he does or says to you, it's his own fault, and he must suffer the consequences. The more friends you can trust with this (and perhaps even your own therapist, seperate from the marriage counselor) the chances of him making you crazy decrease. Also, no matter what he tells you, spend lots of time with friends and family, away from him. They are your connection to reality. You can have fun with friends who don't know about his behavior, and those who do. Do things that help you feel self-actualized, and raise your self-esteem. Nothing sucks away your self-esteem faster than a N tendencies.
Relationships with N tendencies can also have abusive tendencies.
I read in your post that you want to present this all to him honestly. That's a good approach. Always be honest. (unless you are afraid for your safety, then please make yourself safe) Also, get a counselor who understands narcissistic tendencies, and you will probably need to go to a man. Chances of him lisetening to a woman are slim.
Marriage counseling was pretty ineffective for us. So be prepared for it not to work. It will depend on how open he is to seeing his faults... He will probably do a good bit of blaming you for them.
If marriage counseling doesn't help, be sure to be in therapy yourself. I learned bunches of ways to ignore (and stop enforcing) bad behavior, and to reinforce good behavior. Also read books like, "the Solo Partner" and "Why does he Do that: Inside the minds of Angry Abusive men" by Lundy Bancroft, and bell hooks, "All About Love." I also read, "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" and "The Emotionally Abusive Relationship" These helped me to articulate what was happening, and validated my experience... That was important.
If you are going to stay, the big thing will be setting rigid boundaries, and not budging. ie: If you treat me like... I will not...
I am in year three of my marriage. The first two years were very difficult because I was removed from my support system, and he was my link to reality (well, a sad version of reality). For two years, I became depressed. I was really confused because he said he loved me and he behaved otherwise. Nothing was "severe" (although now that I look back on it with a healthy mindset I think it was "severe"). But then, I denied to myself that I was being abused and I thought it was my fault and my job to change things. I thought I would leave if it got "bad." (and I did leave). Leaving was vital to my health. I needed to be away from him and surrouned by support in order to climb out of the hole. Then, I went back with stronger boundaries, and healthy minset. I contined to increase my own circle of support and my life outside of him (no matter how he complained).
He has been much nicer and more sensitive in the 4 months I have been back. However he still has tendencies toward triangulation... (they are just not as severe as they used to be) So, my marriage is still a tightrope. But I feel I can walk it. Because I have seen improvement, and I have a lot of support and help. Now, with a clear mind, I look back on the past two years (which took such a toll on my health) and I wish I could go back in time and kidnap myself.
I do love my husband. He can be wonderful. But nothing is worth the sacrafices I have made for this marriage. And yet I remain married to him. I continue to walk the tightrope. It is hard. I continue to believe that he is changing and will change. Sometimes what happens to people, (like being left by a wife) makes them think (if they are not full on NPD).
Best to you Susanna... I would write more about my story, but I am trying to pump out some final papers. It is hard to know what to say without knowing the particulars, so this advice comes from my experience.
Peace, jenny
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Jenny,
Thank you so very much for opening up and sharing a slice of your life with me. I do have a sense of hope now, though it is somewhat guarded until he can prove to me that our relationship is as important to him, as it is to me.
~~Susannah
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Hi Susannah,
I admire the strength in your willingness to pose an altumatum. You are putting your health first, and thats good.... even though it's hard. It proves that he has not destroyed your self-worth, and that you are unwilling to allow that to happen. That takes a lot of foresight and courage. There are no easy answers with this behavior... There is only solidarity.
Peace, Jenny
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Hi again Jenny,
Well, I approached my husband with this when he came home for lunch, being the type of person who doesn't like to put things of importance off. He really was accepting of what I had to say and was already inquiring as to how best to get past it.
I do believe that my husband and I have a couple of things working in our favor in contending with this problem. One, we have utilize Classical Homeopathy in our family, though not as successfully with him as the rest of us, which will help with any possible organically related problems, such as adverse reactions to vaccines in his childhood, or the vaccines that were administered when he entered into the military. Two, that we understand very well the need in relationships to seek forgiveness and reconciliation.
I know that there were problems with how he was raised, having his next sister come 13 months behind him, which more than likely caused a premature ousting from his mother's lap, if she was even so inclined as to nurture her babies. There are a number of things that I have never liked about his mother and I have even told him that I have wanted to slap her, not literally, on a number of occassions for how she handled, or sometimes not handled, him in his formative years. I'm sure if I were to get closer to her and better understand her, that I would find her to be narcissistic.
So, overall, I am very pleased at how this has manifested and in how he has been open to it. I really hated to use the term Narcissistic, because I am not fully convinced that what he is contending with warrants having a title, seeing that each of can have Narcissistic tendencies at varying degrees and at various times in our lives. However, I do know that I don't like what has been happening and am the type of person to grab the bull by the horns at the onset, not waiting for it to become a pathological or sociological condition. We are expecting in May, his first, my 7th, and I want to establish peace in our home a.s.a.p. Maybe this is one of my phases of "nesting". :D And, from what I've read in other areas of this site, having a baby can very well catapult someone with Narcissism, into seeking a new and more healthy path. Which means that we have 3 areas working in our favor!
I really appreciate your encouraging words and THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart!!!
~~Susannah
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Susannah,
Oh you are expecting! Congratulations! I do hope he straightens up for your sake and for the baby's! (and your other children)
The fact that he was receptive to your suggestion is a very good sign, I think. Ofcourse, he will have to show you with his actions that he is really willing to be introspective and perminently change his behavior.
(In the roughest times of my marriage, I learned that my husband knew the art of "making nice" with words and temporary behavior changes... just enough to convince me that he really meant it this time.)
But yours and his committment to forgiveness and reconciliation and homeopathy sound like good things too.... I have always wanted to learn more about homeopathy... If I didn't overwhelm you with books last time, I thought of one that you could work on together, if he is willing... "Getting the Love You Want" by Harville Hendrix. It's about working out childhood issues, and growing more emotionally intimate. (I can't believe how much money I spent in the "self-help" section of the book store! I read at least 10 books on marriage!
Whatever happens, there are times when this board can be very supportive! I hope you will keep in touch if you want to or need to.
Peace, jenny
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Thank you for the 'congratulations' Jenny. I will look into that book and see if that is a tool that could be effective for us. I too have spent a small fortune on self help books over the years, but lost most of them in a house fire back in 1996, which in retrospect was probably a good thing. I now try to keep a balance with common sense and other's inputs, believing that at times we can become too absorbed and even :::gasp::: Narcissistic in wanting to do such and such because So and So said so.
My husband really isn't one to use words to make nicey nice, so I know that I can rest assured that what he tells me, I can take at face value. I really do believe that this is going to work through, because as I stated before, I don't see my husband as having full fledged NPD, just some tendencies that made me wince, which more than likely is what many of us have done at one time or other in our lives. This is just his season of being a bit more immature, heaven knows that I've had my seasons!! LOL!!
Take care and have a GREAT day!!
~~Susannah