Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Izzy_*now* on August 22, 2008, 04:09:39 PM
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I guess I chose to ignore what you are saying and that perhaps everything will heal. period
In case this long title doesn't get in there.
Does anyone know anyone who appears to think this way?
She and her husband are going to be in a time share condo for a couple of weeks in my city.
I am less "active"....I will say.... since we last were together and I emailed her and told her. As in, we always went in their truck. I told her I cannot stand up anymore and would have to take my car, but I cannot be out for more than 2 hours. Since there is stale smoke in my apt. it would be hard on them, so I said they had to enjoy themselvves as though I weren't here, but maybe a take out dinner on my balcony.....?
My mother was an "I cannot face all this bad news so I will ignore it and it will go away." I never asked her why she chose to not acknowledge, but I wrote right back on this email and asked:
"You obviously didn't get the drift of my email that I am not well and might not at all be good company.....or did you and chose to ignore, as you don't know what to say?
I cannot believe you could miss and not remark on that.
That was just part but I got my answer.
Izzy
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Izzy,
I'm having just a little bit of trouble understanding you, but it's the end of the day and my brain is gone.
Nonetheless -- is your mother maybe passive aggressive or something? That's just so weird, what she said.
I'm not sure if your mother was saying this in a mean way ... but my mother had a tendency to view the world that way -- just don't think about it and it will go away. Not sure that's the same thing.
????
Anyway, it felt hurtful to me when I read what you wrote (her answer). Hugs.
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Yes, Iz, my mother is the queen of ignoring anything I say that is aimed at her and going on as if I never was that upset and she has made everything good again.
Example- I was so angry about dad being in the hospital and her not telling me. She made a few attempts to pretend she was concerned and felt she had done enough and all was back to normal...
She "forgot" to tell me about our family reunion. So she went around telling everyone she just couldn't imagine how she forgot to tell me and told me how much everyone would have wanted to see me... and then went on as if it was no big deal...
These are the most recent examples... but this is the norm for her. She has no shame and no compassion. She is cruel and uncaring.
I have called her on it and she still doesn't care. She just tells all her friends how she couldn't believe she did it and she goes on...
Izzy, for a long time I avoided all confrontation at all costs and no doubt did a bit of this myself.
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That comment, Lily, came in an email last night from a 'friend' of mine (known her and her husband since 1961)
(and I wrote that my mother was the same)
Yes, Stella, said that and I called her on it!
I can remember when I was in the car accident, we were writing letters to each other and hers were filled with her husband's drinking and physical abuse. He has been sober for over 35 years now, and they apparently found the Lord, but I really don't think so. They are very boring now.
I wrote her about my accident---I would never walk again and she never responded! I began to think that I had never told her, so I wrote another letter with details and she answered that with, "Yes. You told me" .(...that idea, and I see now she cannot face illness, injury, death)
They invited me once to a Hot Springs Resort. Well!!!!!!!! It was all mountains, can't get to Hot Springs in a w'chair, can't roll across the golf course. I might as well have stayed home.
Oh My
There are none so blind as cannot see!
Izzy
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Hi Beth,
Well here's one for you.
At 7:00 a.m. my sister goes to parent's house and wakes them up and tells about my accident, broken back , won't walk again, in Toronto Hospital in surgery.....
Mom said, "Oh the poor girl! ! Did you want any eggs from Mrs. Hubbard this week?"
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Izzy - that is simply shocking.
You have often said that your mother was not a narcissist but I wonder if she didn't have some narcissistic tendencies. I want to think that she must have been still asleep or perhaps just in shock but I suspect the way you have written it that it was neither. It is imcomprehensible that any human would react that way but your own mother - words just cannot make sense of it.
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Izzy, that really is unbelievable and awful and shocking. Every time you post something, it's a worse story than all the others ones. Unbelievable.
And Stella is no friend. Geesh!
People are just so hard to comprehend sometimes.
this is all just very disturbing. I am so sorry you've had to endure all this. Just awful.
((((Izzy)))))
LC
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Hi guys, SS an LC,
This is the God's Honest Truth and I am shocked that you are so shocked but only because this mother is the one who raised me.
My goodness. To think that I have been 'soft-pedaling' such statements/reactions all these years, as just people who cannot face a dire truth.
I have no more appointmentds with my Therapist, but I can call and go back any time. I never mentioned these to him, as Stella's came AFTER my last visit.
My therapist has agreed with me SO many times that I often feel I was the only child who examined her life to understand it. The siblings don't react either, well maybe one, the youngest sister.
and SS That was my mother, one who would/couldn't talk about bras, periods, sex, love, an N? I cannot 'peg' her!
Izzy
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Of course you know your mother and I could not possibly know anything about her except what little I have read here, but I do know that it is far from normal that a mother hearing that her precious daughter has been in an accident and is paralyzed for life should react by saying, "Oh the poor girl! ! Did you want any eggs from Mrs. Hubbard this week?"
The normal reaction would be to go into shock and have a hard time thinking what one should do and figure out how to get to her as soon as possible, to get in touch, to talk to the doctors - panic, concern, worry, fear, grief, sadness.
You needed someone who would be there for you day in and day out and do everything possible to keep your poor daughter connected to her mother. That's what you needed. And that's what you deserved.
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Ug - the eggs statement is amazing. Unbelievable...
When I was little, I was always "escaping" from the house. My NM was telling about this during the wedding reception... about how she would find out I was gone and then look for me. I remember many times being lost and alone (one time we were in a hotel and I was around the other side thinking that was our door - at 3 or so). I said to her, "So, were you sleeping or something during all these times I was out of the house?" (Mind you , all of these happened when I was between 2 and 5) and she gave me a blank look. Then she just picked up and went on.
Another time I almost drowned (at about 4 or 5) because I was playing in the ocean and got caught in a rip tide. She was sunbathing or something on the beach and thought I was "just playing around" when I called for help. Some man saved me. What mother doesn't even check to see???????
Yes, Iz, she tells these stories like they are anecdotes and has no idea that people look at her quizzically...
Your friend was either not very thoughtful, or just plain ignorant to invite you on the holiday. Do you think she was just totally unaware about your needs? Did it make it easier to "pretend" you were not incapacitated?????
Love, Beth
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Hi SS and Beth, again,
Wow! Then my mother must be the all time winner for not showing any affection (and my father)
We 5 kids grew up in that atmosphere--if you don't get it, then feel it.....how are you to give it, and feel it?........
On her death bed, I leaned over, gave her a peck on the forehead and said, 'Safe journey. Mom' and she said 'I love you'. That was the first timer ever that I heard those words from her.
On his death bed, my father could not talk, so I had no idea what he was thinking.
They did the necessary things that would make them 'look good to the neighbours' and talked with all the neighbours, all more than to each other and us at home.
I suspect we just grew upon our own and learned things if we were told by as friend or teacher or whomever. That is why we are all in a state of living our own lives and are not close.
After the accident, it was 2 weeks before my mother came and I was in death's door for 6 days. Only my father was there and my eldest siste, the nurse.
I have learned, now, to guage them all by their reaction to my life-altering accident as only one visit iin a year is 'not enough support' to even count.
I feel as though ALL of them said "Oh, the poor girl. Well, leave her to it and get on with our own lives!"
Thanks for your responses and, as always when I hear these things, I feel cheated, really cheated, but it is all past now and I want no battles renewed at my age.
I suspect that something about this had 'driven' me and I 'do it on my own' and I will until the end. Therefore even my friends might 'forget' about my wheels--the friends from far away and who be like my mother and say:
I guess I chose to ignore what you are saying and that perhaps everything will heal. period (Stella)
Please Izzy, Please come and see me! Please Izzy, Please come and see me! (Cathie, who is on the phone in Wichita, Kansas, having had chemo for a lung tumour and won't keep quiet long enough for me to inter ject anything after "no" )(then explanation about certain private things.)
Love
Izzy
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Hey Iz,
I don't know but my friend (like you say) when told something and your not sure if they heard what you said...is because I think they do..but there is so much going on in their head..(their thoughts) or non thoughts....they kind of process it..take it in..but that is about it...so when we say did you hear me ..they say yes... ...is flat..flatlines...they kind of remind me of the Steppford People..and when they have to answer it is like a ...My, my what a shame..poor girl...what a shame...how about some coffee and come look at my garden..(Flat)...
My G'ma was like this.....all kinds of troubles and an N husband if not P to boot...and she was kind of steppford'ish....just survived..existed...but Flat....on the emotional dept.... kind of like a robot...with smiles on her face...but anything deep..really deep..well I guess it was so deep she was overtaken by...acting steppford'ish...an object to just exists and survive....and very very Flat...she smiled alot and almost appeared *simple*...like she had no clue other then to be *simple* not stupid...just simple...to the point of Flat....if this makes any sense...
She was not an N but she sure was a victim..who existed an Object with a smile and not unkind...maybe accepting of that was all there was for her...not even sad...she just was...
Love
Deb
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My, my what a shame..poor girl...what a shame...how about some coffee and come look at my garden..(Flat)...
Hi Deb,
Yes like that. so do you call this flatness as not emotional, not hearing, not understanding, can't take in the impact of the statement??? or is it just indescribable and "just is"?
She was not an N but she sure was a victim..who existed an Object with a smile and not unkind...maybe accepting of that was all there was for her...not even sad...she just was...
This is how I see my mother. She was not an N. She existed and 'kept up appearances' as we all were to do.
A child cannot gain feelings from a person like this. One can only learn how to plant a garden and make preserves, cook and bake, clean and wash and hang to dry, set the table. wash the floor, make the bed.....then receive praise for having such hard working kids (who also deal with a raging father too and his needs regarding farm chores getting done.)
OMG I hope to come back as a pretty diamond that will shine for someone!
Izzy
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Izzy,
About your friends email. I am constantly amazed at what people ignore - there is some phrase about ignoring the elephant in the room. Well, I think this is how many people draw boundaries around themselves. They live their lives at a level of politeness that does not involve asking or answering any hard questions. It is hard to take I know. My guess if you were explicit and said how you were feeling very very clearly that also would be ignored. As for your mother's comments about the eggs............well, Izzy, I am sorry that you had to be around such a person.
xxx
axa
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Hi axa
Yes, I told this old friend the whole kit and caboodle, right up to date, and that was her reply, like "Maybe it will go away if I don't say anything, becasue i don't know how to handle such matters."
And Beth's description, this one:
who existed (only as) an Object, with a smile and not unkind...maybe accepting of that was all there was for her...not even sad...she just was...
is a part of what both my parents lived like and any time they blew up, I expect, is when they didn't know what to do.
There must be a name for that
thanks for the visit
Izzy
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Iz,
I think in terms like you..and I do think..generational..has alot to do with things...
Yes Iz I do believe that it was the case..I don't know how to handle such matters...so I handle them how I know...and that is flat...I'm sorry..poor girl..we I exist..you exist..and we are surviving...to survive..you must clean, cook, sew..whatever it takes.
It's all they had to work with. What was there back then..there was no support groups, no knowledge like we have now or opportunity...it's all they knew...which was to just ...carry on...
Back then Abuse was discipline, Voice was disrespect, and my mother was raised by an abusive father and a depressed mother who was in some kind of emotional bondage...not without it...just in a generational *prison of times*...Not only was my g'ma a victim of her husband she was a victim of her times...her generation....What was there to do.....when it just was....
I don't think she would have thought in terms of I chose to ignore it and then perhaps everything will heal....Maybe I chose to ignore it and perhaps...everything shall pass...and we will survive...exist.....because that is what they had been doing for years anyway...you healed cuts, operations, and you let emotions...pass....unhealed balance.....I'm sorry poor dear...I have to make coffee and get your fathers dinner ready...then tomorrow do laundry..and sweep.....keep the balance...unhealed..and perhaps...I will survive....flat..
Could have it been this way for them??? If they were not N then what were they...depressed victimized women...gone Flat..
Love
Deb
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Hi Deb
I SO apprreciate what you said. I really do. I could never have arrived at the conclusion you have, although many is the time I have tried and had I succeeded, I would have said what you did.
Because somewhere in my life I felt that too, and had no words for it. I was 'flat', I had no 'use', but I still did my work, nothing happy ever happened, it was gray and dusty and flat, I existed but didn't cry, there were cuts and bruises, accidents and concussions an let's just wait for the doctor, meanwhile go back to chopping the wood, there are no outs, it will always be this.
No they are not Ns as we know them here. They are another breed entirely, a sad breed, no hope, no happiness. no joy in their children, no joy and maybe afraid there is nothing after life, so what was it all for?
I wish more people had caught on to this one as I feel it is very very important. I sometimes think too many are willing to blame N-ism for lack of searching further.
Izzy