Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Gaining Strength on August 29, 2008, 11:14:31 AM
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Wow - I'm on fire about this years election.
I actually made a living working in politics for a number of years and gave up in frustration and disgust. I have had NO interest in politics as usual for a very long time.
Between Obama's speech last night and McCain's announcement today - I'm excited!
How about you?
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Hello SS,
I am extremely hopeful (and that's agood thing) after listening to Obama last night. Full disclosure: I am a recovering Republican, now dem. I consider myself an independent and never vote a straight party ticket.
I could write a full dissertation on our party system as an expression of dysfunctional family psychology, I think. The last eight years have been a disgusting display of greed and destructive naked aggression against life. But if I wrote it I'd be exhausted! Don't get me started!!! :D
Don't forget to vote, folks!
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I am a recovering Republican
Me too!
The last eight years have been a disgusting display of greed and destructive naked aggression against life.
Very disappointing -
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The last eight years have been a disgusting display of greed and destructive naked aggression against life.I agree. It's been Narcissism on public display. James
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I never thought of it that way but that makes sense.
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Obama would get my vote......if I had one. Fingers and everything else crossed.
axa
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Hi Axa,
Are you too young, or not a US citizen? Just wondering...MP
We owe it to the world to make a change and be responsible for this outcome. Too much riding on it.
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If only I was to young............ from europe so no vote. He is very popular over here, has lots of support.
axa
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I'm pretty excited too.
We're looking at real change here if Obama is elected.
We've never had a guy who has only served three years in the senate (two of which he's spent campaigning) and otherwise has done pretty much nothing; who spent twenty years in a church listening to his pastor preach racist hatred, then deny he heard any of it; whose political mentor is an unrepentant 60's bomb designing terrorist who he spent years working closely with but whom he now acts like he barely knows; and whose political fixer and fund raiser just got sent to the Federal hoosegow for wire and mail fraud, but of course he hardly knew him either even though he helped him buy his house. Hope and change indeed. He does give a pretty speech though.
Suggest we leave politics off this board and restrain the desire to label those with whom we disagree with pathological labels.
mud
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I NEVER get in to political discussions but Mud your words were balm to my hurting heart! Ami
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Canadian here, mudpuppy
I just read your message and I find it (if it is truthful) so much against Obama that I so wonder all the time, if there will be, ever, or has been, ever, an honest hardworking President of the USA.
If so, who was it? please! Reagan?
The more-to-me famous names come to mind but not their values, Washington, Lincoln, Hoover? (or was he just a vacuum?), Roosevelt, Eisenhower--I drew a line with Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Clinton, Bush x 2
Well you get my drift and I don't vote...... I just see the consequences years later.
Thanks Izzy
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I am sorry that this thread was hijacked. I started it to celebrate the major changes in the American political system - bipartisan not expressing a political point of view.
It speaks volumes that such was hijacked into mean spirited mudslinging.
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I'm excited too...I'm an Obama girl, he gets my vote.
Love
Deb
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SS-I have always voted Republican but I think the war in Iraq has brought too many bad memories of Vietnam back. I do not think the Reps are going to win especially since McCain chose a totally unknown person (although my h thinks she's beautiful!!!)
Owning a retail store whose sales are DOWN and watching the skyrocketing price of gas and groceries, I believe the US citizens will overwhelmingly elect the Dem ticket. Not that Obama is so great but because they want the Reps OUT!!
And I think the perception of a good economy will psychologically make people spend more money and sales will pick up.......I figure no matter who is in the white house, it all becomes a bipartisan quagmire with lots of red tape no matter what.......
I guess Reagan was a good president although I was young and didn't know any better. However, when I bought my first house in 84 the interest rates were right about 13%. Now they are at 6%.
SS-as long as people are talking politics I do not think this thread is hijacked. You know what they say...........never discuss religion or politics if you do not want a fight. All I have to say about all that is we all have the opportunity to make our own assessments. It is great to me that we have a black man running for president. The US has come a long way in my life time. Even as a young child there was segregation here in the US. I remember MLK being assassinated and Bobby Kennedy. A bit young to remember JFK but I had a class on the assassination in college and it still intrigues me....
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I started it to celebrate the major changes in the American political system - bipartisan not expressing a political point of view.
SS,
I agree your first post was bipartisan.
However your next two agreeing with statements about the last 8 years consisting of disgusting displays of greed and destructive naked aggression against life and that it constitutes a public display of Narcissism can not in any way be construed as bipartisan.
So if the thread was hijacked away from bipartisnaship it would seem you participated in it yourself, prior to my posting. In fact those partisan postings prompted mine.
If I had not posted an opposing view, I wonder, would you have complained about highjacking of the thread by the first partisan posts or is it only highjacking if a different partisan view than yours is mentioned but not ones you agree with? If so isn't that kind of the opposite of bipartisan?
We have had these kind of threads before and they usually come down to one side eventually labeling the other political view as Narcissistic (as happened in this case), which leads to pointless, rancorous discussions which have nothing to do with the point of this board and often cause bad blood. That's why I recommend not getting into politics here; it usually leads to harm not healing, which I thought was the point of this place.
mud
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Mud - even McCain is running against the last 8 years and lots of Republicans are right with him on that. Disappointment in the last 8 years is certainly a bipartisan reaction.
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Thanks SS.
My reaction is not partisan at all. My reaction is not against republicans. I myself was a republican. So it was my decision, I emphasize, MY decision, perhaps not anyone elses, that remaining republican meant associating myself with what all went on re Iraq, Katrina, DOJ, etc. I just could not do that.
Yes, many republicans feel the way I do yet choose to stick with their party. That is another way to go and I respect that. I stick to my opinion that this country was run with decisions made to enrich war profiteers and oil companies.
But it's a free country (still?) and we can agree to disagree. If my comment about greed set anyone off, well, that is very interesting information. Interesting that someone had such a visceral reaction to what I wrote. That wasn't my intent. My intent was to vent my own feelings about the last eight years and my excitement and desire for change. I think it was pretty general. I can only take responsibility for my own vote. This board is indeed about voicing opinions. I participate in other political boards and can certainly take specific political opinions there.
But politics are about how we live together and there is an enormous amount of personal psychology that enters into it. I see some overlap there.
Peace. Miss Piggy
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It probably makes the most sense to draw one’s own conclusions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_ShEXZo7UY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_ShEXZo7UY)
We all have differenct sources and different backgrounds...different experiences that influence who we respond to, who we have faith in, who we support or fear. With love and respect to my good brother Mud, it's okay to disagree.
There are thousands of right- and left-wing blogs and so forth. I am a left-tilting liberal on most (but not all) subjects. I've personally made peace with the specific charges you raised, Mud. Among others, below are some articles that show context. I'm sure there are other sources that say the opposite, and I respect your right to believe them.
Professor Ayers
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/02/obamas_weatherman_connection.html (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/02/obamas_weatherman_connection.html)
Reverend Wright
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lecia-shorter/reverend-wright-damned-if_b_99760.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lecia-shorter/reverend-wright-damned-if_b_99760.html)
Tony Rezko
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/21/AR2008082103562.html?sub=AR (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/21/AR2008082103562.html?sub=AR)
Mega dittoes to PEACE!
Hops
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Agree that political discussions will probably devolve into an argument. However, I know that religion has been discussed as a weapon of mass destruction by Ns, so why not politics as well?
I can be allowed my disgust without being called partisan. I did not post any dirt on Obama or McCain.
I will NOT stand with anyone who believes that locking people up without due process and torturing them is OK. There is no objective that is worth that. I do not buy the ticking time bomb argument. My priorities are
1. human rights
2. me and my neighbors
3. taking action that is life giving, not destructive.
political parties are just an argument over where the money goes. I don't think Obama is the messiah, but I will vote for him. I fully expect to be disappointed. I am not for the DNC any more than I am for the GOP. I would vote all incumbents out if I could. Just so you know where I am coming from.
Sorry if this is considered "mudslinging".
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I can be allowed my disgust without being called partisan. I did not post any dirt on Obama or McCain.
Partisan is not a dirty word, nor does it mean posting dirt about someone. It means favoring one side over another. I just pointed out that what began as a bipartisan thread immediately became a partisan one. Nor did I accuse anyone of mudslinging.
even McCain is running against the last 8 years and lots of Republicans are right with him on that
Well, he's running on making Bush's tax cuts permanent and taking credit for pushing the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. I suppose there is some way one could construe that as running against the last 8 years but I'm not sure how.
He is doing what all politicians do which is to distance himself from an unpopular president, just as many congressional Democrats did when Truman was very unpopoular and distrusted at the end of his presidency. Fifty years later of course Truman is viewed in a very bipartisan way as a great president and the congressmen are forgotten.
Among others, below are some articles that show context.
God bless ya, Hops. You have yet to ever provide me with a link that wasn't a puff piece for whatever cause you believe in. Those three links are whitewashes which could have been written by Obama himself. Google the Annenberg challenge and Obama. Look in places you wouldn't otherwise look. The way you learn about someone is sifting through what their supporters say but also and more importantly what their credible critics say about them. Reading only echo chambers of our own views provides the same perspective as you'd get in Soviet Russia or Mussolini's Italy.
I'll bow out of this thread now as it is a prime example, in my opinion, of why this board is slowly dying.
mud
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Hey Mud!
You're exactly right. Let's head right back into religion and get a good discussion going again. Just kidding.
Actually, it's enlightening to know what your agenda is.
We've never had a guy who has only served three years in the senate (two of which he's spent campaigning) and otherwise has done pretty much nothing;
Nothing! Are you sure?
who spent twenty years in a church listening to his pastor preach racist hatred, then deny he heard any of it; whose political mentor is an unrepentant 60's bomb designing terrorist who he spent years working closely with but whom he now acts like he barely knows; and whose political fixer and fund raiser just got sent to the Federal hoosegow for wire and mail fraud, but of course he hardly knew him either even though he helped him buy his house.
Whew! Is it all as simplistic as you say!!! Wow....
I guess the short story is that we know who you are going to vote for....
I don't think we need to stop talking because you find it offensive. Of course, you could go volunteer for the "other guy".... if you find the thread just too out of order....
Anyway, thanks for your opinion. And I'd like to keep talking
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Allow me to bow back in.
I guess the short story is that we know who you are going to vote for....
No you don't. I wrote a couple of posts critical of Obama and one straightening out what SS said about McCain and then indirectly criticised McCain. It is safe to conclude on what I have written who I will not, but not who I will, vote for.
Actually, it's enlightening to know what your agenda is.
My agenda is exactly what I stated it to be. Secondarily to point out the fact that this bipartisan thread devolved after one post into a partisan one, but primarily to try to voluntarily persude folks that this site is valuable and unique, or at least it used to be, and that these topics, are detrimental to that value. I have merely voiced my opinion that people consider this view; not told anyone to shut up.
If people disagree they are free to continue on in the vein the board has been in for the last year or so and watch the membership continue to dwindle as new memberships are closed and see it die completely eventually.
Now bowing out of this thread permanently (I hope)
mud
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I'm pretty excited too.
We're looking at real change here if Obama is elected.
We've never had a guy who has only served three years in the senate (two of which he's spent campaigning) and otherwise has done pretty much nothing; who spent twenty years in a church listening to his pastor preach racist hatred, then deny he heard any of it; whose political mentor is an unrepentant 60's bomb designing terrorist who he spent years working closely with but whom he now acts like he barely knows; and whose political fixer and fund raiser just got sent to the Federal hoosegow for wire and mail fraud, but of course he hardly knew him either even though he helped him buy his house. Hope and change indeed. He does give a pretty speech though.
Suggest we leave politics off this board and restrain the desire to label those with whom we disagree with pathological labels.
mud
Well, this WAS quite the stinkbomb...as others have said, you can choose to participate or not, but please hold the accusations and assignments of intent. I call the actions of our government pathological and i stand by that statement. If you choose to delve into character assassination, that is your choice. But it's your choice. Own it.
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One thing I know for sure is that I have heard a lot of dirt on Obama..................and I have heard things like McCain is too old and why would he choose an unknown woman from Alaska and more of the same blah blah blah..........
To be honest with you, this is the first election I do not know who to vote for. It will be the first time I go into the booth and not automatically vote for a Republican. Oh well, all I want is for the economy to bounce back and for my new beautiful granddaughter to be safe!!
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If you choose to delve into character assassination, that is your choice.
That is a lie, please retract it.
And once you have, go take a walk til your hat floats.
mud
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Just an observation, Mud,but you sure fight back when you percieve YOU are insulted. Then ,Mr Impartiality seems to be riding in the back seat.
How would you like s/one to come in ,now, and tell you not to fight?
Do you get the point that was made on the other thread? This is it.
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Ami,
I make a distinction between an insult, which is an opinion, and a falsehood.
When someone falsely accuses me of something I tend to be not quite so impartial.
I'm funny that way.
mud
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If you choose to delve into character assassination, that is your choice.
That is a lie, please retract it.
And once you have, go take a walk til your hat floats.
mud
Having fun? I could say that to anyone...it stands as a statement, not a lie.
Someone needs to check their projections. Just as an interesting exercise, one could go back and review what they have written and see what they would think if someone had directed it at them.
I guess criticism of our country's government really hit a nerve for you. I guess it doesn't bother you that the current administration has shredded the constitution, ignored treaties, invaded a country or two, and told Congress to stuff it. Now that's change! Sorry you don't like the fact that I would like the wars and robbery of our treasury to stop. Wonder why you are so defensive.
But thanks for telling me and anyone who is riding high after the Dem convention to stifle. Very kind. And the suggested walk. Wow, just wow.
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Bean........I agree with you this is probably about our pasts and our posture NOW may very well be, in fact, the strategy adapted earlier in childhood....... I believe it's more of a reflection of how we developed coping mechanisms to survive our fears as children. Some people seem to protect the parents at all costs and some appear to challenge the authoritarian structure of their childhoods embedded in these poltics. This usually manifests in a "struggle" in the present........James
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I could say that to anyone...it stands as a statement, not a lie.
You accused me of engaging in character assassination which I have not done, ipso facto it is a lie.
I have not tried to stifle anyone. I have questioned the wisdom of bringing up politics on this board and recommended voluntary restraint because the discussion invariably devolves into a pointless fight and goes from general statements of opinion to ad hominem attacks such as your false accusation about me referred to above.
I do thank you though, for making my point about why this thread was such a bad idea so much more effectively than I could ever have.
Bean........I agree with you this is probably about our pasts and our posture NOW may very well be, in fact, the strategy adapted earlier in childhood....... I believe it's more of a reflection of how we developed coping mechanisms to survive our fears as children. Some people seem to protect the parents at all costs and some appear to challenge the authoritarian structure of their childhoods embedded in these poltics.
Not in my case, James. My parents weren't Ns and I had a happy childhood.
My position is based on watching these kind of threads blow up in the past, precisely as this one has.
The only way they don't blow up is if one side practices voicelessness on itself and doesn't respond to provocative comments by the other. Most of us don't need anymore practice being pressured into keeping our mouths shut in the face of provocation.
That is why I advise voluntary restraint by both sides. It breeds goodwill rather than bad.
mud
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So anyway, gang, as I was saying, I am excited about the changes and the energy that this election year is bringing. The whole world is wondering how America will deliver this year. It is interesting to observe how people make their political decisions, James. Some historians are now studying "psycho-history" which I think is some kind of analysis of how certain personalities are launched by the psychology of the group and the political factors in play at the time. It can really come down to the difference one person can make. Politicians can sort of be like archetypes we need at any particular time...
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Hi Mud .........I don't consider this thread to be one that has blown up. Perhaps to you it feels that way. Not me, in fact I find the psychology at play here very interesting and it gives me valuable insight into myself and others. I also don't consider a healthy option to be where the appearance of taking sides promotes the notion/illusion where the resolution of uncomfortable feelings is to be where one side is then forced or reasoned with into remaining quiet. In reality isn't this the principal fascism is founded on rather than democracy. The Narcissistic family is a fascist structure rather than a democratic way of life and in fact, silence becomes the position of many an abused child where he is able to survive but then cannot express his authentic emotions notably his justified anger. Some who are in denial throw rocks at the parent and others who are in denial support the parent and enforce on others what was forced on them as children. IMO this is learned very deeply, early on, by some people and then later becomes the framework for adult thinking and behavior, primarily unconscious.....James
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Hi Mud .........I don't consider this thread to be one that has blown up. Perhaps to you it feels that way. Not me, in fact I find the psychology at play here very interesting and it gives me valuable insight into myself and others. I also don't consider a healthy option to be where the appearance of taking sides promotes the notion/illusion where resolution of uncomfortable feelings to be where one side is to be then forced or reasoned with into remaining quiet. In reality isn't this the principal fascism is founded on rather than democracy. In many a N family, it is a fascist structure rather than a democratic way of life. In fact, silence is the position of many an abused child where he survives but then cannot express his authentic emotions notably his justified anger. Some who are in denial throw rocks at the parent and others who are in denial support the parent and enforce on others what was forced on them as children. IMO this is learned very deeply, early on, by some people and then later becomes the framework for adult thinking and behavior primarily unconscious.....James
I think it is obvious to most that we play out our FOO(family of origin ) issues on the board. I think James made a good point about that. We,also, play out the role we had with our parents. It is an opportunity to learn if one wants to take it. I try to be open to learning, to the best of my ability. Ami
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Hi Bean.............b]I'm not sure how one goes from constantly protecting themself, or feeling like they must - like you said by either attacking or protecting the parent - to feeling the feelings but not reacting this way because of it. When and how do we stop defending ourselves? Bean, I'm not sure if I can answer your question here but it might go something like this....I think we can stop defending ourselves when we realize deep down there isn't anything wrong with us as our parents abusive behavior implied. My defensiveness was a result of abuse and lies. When I was small I accepted, to survive, the belief that I was bad and they were good, surely all parents are good and mine were too, I was forced to believe this as all kids need to believe their parents love them, even if they don't. They weren't, they were rotten, both of em. It wasn't until I faced the pain of this fact that I became far less defensive. It was them not me that was bad, and I had to get this on a very deep level where I accepted that I wasn't loved and instead was abused. I had to give up any illusions of ever being loved. Does this make sense to you?......James
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Dear James and Bean
I appreciate your posts. They are some of the most valuable I have ever seen on the board.
I have been in a period of grief as I truly face my parents. It is like mourning a death.
I thought my parents were good and I was bad, as all children do. I took every little thing they did for me, such as sending me Birthday presents, as evidence that they loved me .
Meanwhile, I thought *I* was not worthy to eat or breathe.
I have realized that my H is very close to an N, if not one.
After all the years of marrige and my N H colluding with my NM, I did not think I was worth anything at all.
I am facing that my parents did not love me. How could you leave your D and small children in an abusive marriage where the door lock has to be replaced over and over b/c it is broken down in a rage?My F's comment to that was "That is life."
If you loved an animal, you would help it more than that.
My M was available for all the "good" times, graduations, births, etc but not when I needed s/one in a real way. Then, she made it clear that I made my bed and I must lie in it.
So, is that love? I don't think so. It is s/one who has no empathy and feeling.
Thank you, dear friends. I appreciate your discussion. Love Ami
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Bean.......You confirm my thinking that seeing the truth sets us on to a path of genuine recovery. I don't think there is any other way. I don't know why some people do it and others don't. For me, I hit bottom and felt I had no other choice, but I have always wanted to know the truth even when I was little. I never saw any of this thinking in my other family members. Maybe they were more comfortable than me and didn't have as much abuse as I felt. I was the family scapegoat and acted act so their abuse was pretty severe, because of this everyone pigpiled on me. They say they didn't but I know they did. More than anything else I sense a huge "fear of the parents " in all of them which they adamantly refuse to acknowledge. You should see them squirm and get angry when I bring this issue up. I'm not religious and they are. I see where this has helped keep them in denial by their beliefs that it's better to forgive and forget. To never ever allow those "evil" feelings of anger out b/c it makes them look bad and its wrong according to their beliefs. Honor the parents no matter what seems to be their motto. This keeps their fear of the parents and consequently their real rage locked inside (denial) and then rather than confronting the real targets they scapegoat others without knowing what they're doing and nothing is ever resolved. Were you scapegoated or maybe the more sensitive one in your family? James
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"8 years of betrayal," John McCain 9/4/08
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Dear Bean
THANK YOU so much for those profound words. I want to think about them and may write more,later. Love Ami
(((((((Bean)))))))))
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Bean and Ami - your conversation is very significant and contains important work. I would respectfully ask that you take it to your own thread as I started this one about something quite different. Thank you.
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Question
Canadian here so, ...What happened to Hillary and why and who is running in her place?
Edit in] Okay--got McCain and Palin. Where is Hillary?
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The political discussion seemed like it had reached it's natural conclusion.Threads meander,but this one will stay political . Ami
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The political discussion seemed like it had reached it's natural conclusion.
I did ask respectfully. I does feel like a slap in the face that the discussion that I started has been trampled on without concern. That is certainly what I experienced repeatedly in my family of origin.
the thread didn't reach a "natural conclusion" but was changed significantly from the point that I began posting about - that is precisely what "hijacking" is.
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Many times threads change and wander. I respected your request. I don't see why there should be more issues. Ami
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Izzy - Hillary was running for the nomination for president in the democratic party. She lost that bid to Barack Obama. He is the democrat's nomination.
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Many times threads change and wander. I respected your request. I don't see why there should be more issues.
The issue is that there is a sharp tone in your post: Threads meander,but this one will stay political . and I am standing up for myself because I feel the sharpness as I have felt when I have stood up for myself in my narcissistic family.
Respecting my request would have sounded more like, "I'm sorry you felt hijacked, I'll be glad to take it to another thread."
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I am sorry my words were not acceptable to you, SS. Ami
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Thanks SS
So then 2 were/are running for the republican Party, then the winner of each run against each other?
I guess I paid attention too soon? because of a woman and a black man and thought it was the finals.
:oops:
Izzy
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Wow - I'm on fire about this years election.
I actually made a living working in politics for a number of years and gave up in frustration and disgust. I have had NO interest in politics as usual for a very long time.
Between Obama's speech last night and McCain's announcement today - I'm excited!
How about you?
I'm going to respond to your initial post as I should have instead of picking on poor Mud...
I, too, am excited. I was in the dumps when the election "stuff" started and I watched Tim Russert say on MSNBC one night how excited he was and his verbal and body language thoroughly supported his statement. So I said to myself, I guess I'll look into this and guess what, I am now very excited. Who would have thought McCain would have picked Sarah and who would have thought that Obama is as sophisticated as he is. Now.....I know....those are just my thoughts....but I also learned that when I talk politics to my adult children, it's as if strangers are stuck together on a train in a tunnel in a snow storm....We're stuck together still yapping but we're strangers! What fun!!!
I miss Tim Russert. And I'm glad I became energized enough to start watching what was going on and...
I'm glad my adult children are talking to me about politics....Even though none of us agree....It's sort of like getting to know you all over again...
OK...enough of warm/fuzzy...
Sarah has a tough row to how....Just saying she has a 5-month old developmentally delayed child does not make her an authority on the current state/federal laws concerning the child's rights much less her ability to modify them although she has promised to be a lantern of lightness for all special needs children....
She went to six colleges in six years?
Did not some of us stay home to ensure our daughters would complete their education and not become pregnant?
The investigation into her brother-in-law's loss of his job is continuing.
Does McCain always need a babe on his arm?
I hope this post infuriates some of us, bores others, and makes the rest think of the difference between life inside the political world as opposed to real life.
What fun!! And by thinking about the political contest, we also are invited to think about our own agendas which are often expressed by who we favour....I guess that's what it is all about, No? That's why talking politics is so fascinating?!
Oh, I forgot field-dressing that moose....I don't know what that signifies. Maybe you aren't put off by blood and guts? Sounds good, though.
Take care....
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Izzy - i know it is confusing but here's the short story. Basically anyone (with some restrictions) can run in the primaries in either the Republican or the Democratic primaries to try to win their party's nomination for President. After one person is selected in each party that candidate can select the person they chose to run as Vice President (VP) with them. Barak Obama beat Hillary Clinton and others to become the democrats presidential candidate. He selected Sen. Joe Biden to be his Vice Presidential candidate. Sen. John McCain won the republican party's choice for president. He selected Gov. Palin to be his Vice Presidential candidate. So now it is McCain/Palin (republicans) v. Obama/Biden (democrats). One of those pairs will win in November.
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Thanks so much for your post Lupine. This is the first time in my life that I will not be afraid of either candidate. Though I have a clear preferrence I could conceivably vote for the other candidate without rancor.
McCain was my choice in 2000. Things would have been much better had he won.
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Hi lupine,
Oh, I forgot field-dressing that moose....I don't know what that signifies. Maybe you aren't put off by blood and guts? Sounds good, though.
I haven't field dressed a moose, but I know cuts of meat because I've helped dress the cow for human consumption. What did I take from that? I can tell you when the one selling the hamburger has ground up ice cubes in it to fool the consumer into thinking he's getting more than he is paying for.
tt
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Thanks SS
I appreciate and understand
I did begin to pay attention too soon...... and thought it weird when November was so far away........
......like doing computer things and listening to the news, etc.
Best
Izzy
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I'm glad my adult children are talking to me about politics....Even though none of us agree....It's sort of like getting to know you all over again...
OK...enough of warm/fuzzy...
Sarah has a tough row to how....Just saying she has a 5-month old developmentally delayed child does not make her an authority on the current state/federal laws concerning the child's rights much less her ability to modify them although she has promised to be a lantern of lightness for all special needs children....
Hi Lupine,
Wow. I am in awe that your family is able to talk politics and respectfully disagree. You must have done something right! :) That's something we need more of everywhere. I grew up in a house where NDad talked Fox News talking points before there was a thing called Fox News and you were NOT allowed to disagree. (OK I know there are some dems who act this way also).
One time (as an adult) I took him on just to see what would happen. It was a very ambiguous issue that really would have no impact on my life or my father's life, did not cost him a penny, etc. It didn't matter. So I experimented and took the opposite point of view just to see how he would react. Boy! What a phone call! And I got mail, too, with photocopies of articles (opinion pieces, of course) backing up his POV. Highlighted. Yep. I chalked it up as a successful experiment even if I lost the debate in that my prediction was 100% verified. Other family members follow his lead and agree with him. I (silently and voicelessly) disagree. I have a button that says "My silence might mean you are not worth the argument."
I am disturbed on many levels by the choice of Sarah Palin for VP. McCain in 2000 I liked a lot. not so much now. I won't get into the BS about why. I have a special needs child and I can tell you republicans care not and her words rang esp. hollow on that point. at least for me. I'm going to stop there.
Izzy, thanks for the interest. I can't imagine trying to follow another country's election system. Don't look to me for any coherent explanation about the electorate college (delegates). Yowza!