Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Ami on August 29, 2008, 04:48:06 PM
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For me, one of the most forbidden things was to have my own needs.
I was to take care of my M's needs to feel good about herself ,at all costs.
I had no time or energy to even KNOW what a need was, let alone ,fill it.
We all have needs, even if we don't know what they are, directly.
I guess we will either try to fill them directly or indirectly.
I hope to be more direct and that is why I wrote this thread.
What would be some of your needs?Which ones can you meet yourself and which ones do you need from other people? Ami
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Hi Ami,
Big question, isn't it? For starters, I think people, even "mature healthy adults" are interdependent.
What the heck was that movie with Tom Hanks- the one when he was marooned on that island? He met all of his own survival needs, because he had no one else to do it. Yet he still drew a face on that ball, gave it a name, (tried to make it a Thou rather than an it?) thus having a companion.
Needs? Wants? I was going to say I need for my H and friends to be honest and faithful, but I have to say I want that, because I
would be able to survive without it, even though it wouldn't feel like it.
Is that along the lines of what you meant?
I was thinking about your six month mark passing. Time can feel so variable during grieving. I think I just identified what I think is
a need ! We are the ones who have to do the grieving, though others can hinder or help. OK, before I get too circular, I'll end here and see what others have to say.
cats paw
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Thank you ,Cat ,for remembering. That was so sweet and meaningful to me.
I am trying to figure out my needs(maybe simply human needs)
I am still thinking about them and will get back, later. Thank you, again, Cat! Love to you, Ami
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Ami......I like this topic and it's one that would do me good to participate in. I came from such a home where until a yr and a half ago I had no idea what a need was. Both my N parents obliterated any idea of me having them. They fed and clothed me but they even made me feel guilty abt this because they had to spend their money on me. Emotional needs were almost no existant in my world at least as I was concerned. My child was bound in a trap where I filled their's rather than them filling mine. At some point I'm going to try here to list what I need at least emotionally. The N is frozen in childhood and feels/thinks like a child then clamors unconsciously to get his needs met even at the expense of his own children, not knowing what he is actually doing. The pain this brings to others as their anger flares up if they're not met can be ferocious. Happened to me, and also I noticed in myself me doing this sometimes without being aware....James
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I am spending time thinking about needs.
I think we have a need for respect and for love.
I think we need to be honest with ourselves and feel like we have integrity, our insides matching our outsides.
I am trying to think of some more needs. Ami
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This is interesting because right now the contrast between my aging parents is so glaring. My D is so needy and selfish. I told a social worker "my mother isn't allowed to have needs". Of course I was speaking for myself as well.
I would have liked my D to protect me when I felt threatened or scared. Of course, this was always dismissed as silly. I would have liked my D to listen to me (voiceless!). I would have liked my dad to want to do things with me. And to do things I wanted to do (not his choice, but mine). I would have like my D to let me sit in his lap like a child, or at least hold my hand. I would like my D to say "hey, we all make mistakes, that's ok". I would like my D to anticipate at least once what I might be feeling in a particular situation. I would like my M to "take my side" when standing up to D or my brothers. I would like my M to know her own needs and stand her ground instead of expecting her kids to fight those battles she won't fight for us. I would like to feel wanted.
My H is very protective. That one aspect of his personality is SO important to me. I feel like an island and that I can protect myself, but I feel valued when someone wants to protect me as well. (he also has a great dry sense of humor 8) ).
Anyway, great topic! MP
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I was made to feel that ANY need made me a selfish monster. An NM does not want you to have needs cuz THEIR needs are what matters.
I need to feel my honest feelings.
Then, I need to express them.
I had an very honest interchange with a mother in the grief support group. I told her that I didn't feel like I belonged b/c it is the parents fault in a suicide(IMO) I felt like she was not at fault(her son died from a medical mistake).
She met me in a deep place and we had a heartfelt talk. I bonded with her b/c I expressed my real feelings, not a sanitized version. That is my goal, for now, to feel my feelings and to express them. That is a need ,for me.
I have more needs to write about, too.I want to think about them and write ,later. Thank you, Miss Piggy, Cat's Paw and James for sharing ! Ami
PS Please do not dispute my feelings about suicide. They are mine and I do not want to open a discussion on them.Thank you.
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It feels very strange to look at the subject of needs,to try to figure out what they are and try to meet them yourself. I thought that if I met YOUR needs, you would meet mine and we all would be happy.That is so unreal. Ami
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Wow Bean
There is a lot of wisdom in that post! Love and Peace, Ami
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I say we have to look after our own needs
To look to someone to fulfull them, as we are today, is to be dependant.
Parents are to provide a child's needs when the child is dependant upon the parent.
I meet my own needs now!
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How do you meet them, Izzy? Ami
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We sell a book called the Five Love Languages. I found out that my "love language" is nurturing words. I love to be told I did well. WEll, my mom feels she has so much knowledge and experience that she can train me. (She said this just a year or so ago..............I bristled at the thought...) He "training" was always a different perspective......so no matter what idea you came up with.......she had a better one. If you write a memo, she edits it so it becomes hers. If you do ANYTHING she can do better. So I grew up with a mother who never said I did good. My need is for someone to acknowledge I did well....
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Hi Overcomer,
Oh, I love that book and thank you for the reminder about the five languages! (No, I'm not mocking your need for nurturing words, I really mean it! :)) The five languages are:
nurturing words
acts of service
gifts
loving touch (hugs, etc)
quality time
It helps to know my H's love language (it is def. acts of service and quality time).
I know how to express my needs...but my D would reject them readily out of hand. So I stopped expressing them to him. Then I stopped expressing them at work. I denied myself a lot because it, even missing a good friend's wedding because I felt I couldn't ask for the time off. I know now my boss was the kind of person who would have said "yes" in a heartbeat. IOW I know what my needs are but I just feel I can't ask.
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Dear Kelly or MP
Could you write a little more about the book. Does it talk about what each person percieves as love(such as nurturing words etc)? Do we all percieve love differently? Ami
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Hi Ami
Hey! You are not a selfish monster!!! :D
I seem to remember the authors saying it takes some observation (for parents watching young children) to figure how which one of these "languages" the child seems to value most and therefore feel loved. I will look at the book again to see what they say specifically and report back.
Gary Chapman is one of the authors, I think. Cheers, MP
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Dear MP
I was trolled ,too. That is why I carry a big stick. Ami
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Nircissist people do not suffer. They do not have insight. Their brain is wired in a different way. Just like Asperger have a wire differently, narcissist too. It has a lot of genetic and a part of environmental. Traumatic experience in early childhood and a special way they have developed theyr brain due to genes.
That is what I have been reading lately.
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Narcissists do not change because they do not learn. They thoughts are fixed. Even with proves of something in front of their eyes, their thoughts are fixedt, and sometimes they even recour to magical thinking. That is why their behavior is repetitive.
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As far as the book, I never realized that different people percieve love ,differently.
I love presents. I like to have the thing(whatever it is) and look at it or wear it and think that the person I love gave it to me. Ami
PS Lupita, I think you are right about N's. They have no learning curve.
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Hi Ami,
This thread reminds me of a story a friend related to me. A young woman worked in the food service industry. One day, as she served a table, one of the guests looked at her and asked, what do you need. Not an expected question right? So the young lady said thoughtfully, What do I need... The guest said, Yes, what do you need? She said, I need my heater fixed. She was a broke. A struggling single mom. It was the dead of winter and she had no heat in her home. Ends up, the guest is the pastor of a church in her area. He and his congregation got together and fixed her heater. They did a good bit of follow up on the side of relieving some of her hardship.
It is true, there are many kinds of needs. The above story is true. The young lady's response makes me wonder how many people in her place might have had too much pride to admit they had real needs. Or perhaps been so flabbergasted that anyone cared that they would have gone numb and not been able to respond at all.
tt
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You make some good points, TT. Thank you Ami
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I don't even know what the simplest need is, often. If I DO know, I feel like I don't deserve it.So, there are two layers to overcome.
I have the need for honesty,within myself. I see how important being honest within yourself is(what you are thinking and feeling) and then expressing your authetic self, within the dictates of the situation.
I was robbed of this honest need by "Who do you think YOU are?"
That took the need and pushed it underground.
Ami
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I have the need to be treated with respect. I see that this IS a need. I think a person will wilt like a flower if they are treated disrespectfully,over and over. Even the courts have an abused wife defense. They must know that you do crack under continual assault.
Of course, there has to be some previous soil that allowed you to be there,first ,and stay.Your chiildhood, would most likely be that soil.
Now, I am seeing this need in me ,and in others. It IS a need.
I told my F that my H broke the lock to my door 4 times ,in a rage. My F said."That is life."
I called my Aunt and said "Is that the right attitude?"
My Aunt said"No"
I had gotten so used to abuse that it was normalized. That happens when you don't see a way out.
I have made so many mistakes,but do see a path out,now.A foundation is defining and meeting needs,I think. Ami
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One thing I know is that my mom's "need" is definitely to be the center of attention...........or to be admired................maybe Gary Chapman should write a new book.....THE FIVE LOVE LANGUAGES OF NORMAL PEOPLE AND THE TWENTY LOVE LANGUAGES OF NARCISSISTS.........
What CB said is true, I think. Many people give what they want. If you watch what people do you will probably figure out what they want. If they give gifts a lot, they like gifts. Me? At work I give a lot of praise - what I want and need..
Some people love to be touched. Maybe your husband loves to hold hands or to be hugged. Maybe he wants you to watch a football game or play tennis with him. Maybe he wants you to tell him he is your hero!!
I also love the book His Needs Her Needs.........that is specifically for marriage and talks about what men need (guess what #1 is?) and what women need. They say if you give your spouse what THEY need, you will never face divorce...
Gary Chapman also wrote the Books FIVE LOVE LANGUAGES FOR TEENS AND FIVE LOVE LANGUAGES FOR CHILDREN
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LOL---about the book for N's. You should write it, Kelly. You have the raw material right there(lol)
Ami
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Very funny, huh, but true!
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I think that with needs, you have to define your own ,meet the ones that involve only you ,like being honest with yourself and others.After that, you can chose who you want in your life and give to them . What you get back is up to them. It may include wonderful surprises ,but it cannot provide the materials to make you.
You have to do that. Ami
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I need affection, physical affection. And I need to give it.
Other than sex. Though that's nice too.
It's taken me years to acknowledge my need to touch and caress, and I feel happier now that I have dumped the shame that made me always uneasy about it.
xo
Hops
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As I grow and change, I get more aware that *I* must meet most of my needs.
I have a need for respect. *I* need to have self respect, first. Then, I can let people in my life and take people out who violate this need.
I need to do things that things that uplift me.
I need to defend myself , when needed. That one is getting easier, as I see that I do have value. It was my NM who tore down my confidence and trust in myself.
I see that it was she who was wrong,not I. I was a normal little kid who was made to feel bad . If I faced the truth, I probably would have died from the pain. So, I took on the role that I was bad ,so I could trust her. Inside, I always knew the truth. Now, I am facing it ,consciously. Ami
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Narcissists do not change because they do not learn. They thoughts are fixed. (http://Narcissists do not change because they do not learn. They thoughts are fixed.)
I really agree with this Lupita...otherwise it would be too strange. Most things in nature DO change, but I guess "thoughts" or "personality structure" really don't.
I think I'll just repeat what I have realized. I need touch. I'm not talking about sex.
I need to hug and caress and stroke. Not all day long, just ... more.
My friendship with the gardener awoke me. He is the cuddliest man. He'd just clamp his big arm around me and all 150 pounds of me would feel safe, warm, harbor...
We don't do that any more but I kiss him on the cheek now and then. I'm so glad I had that relationship. And now, he's a friend. It actually did work out. A little suffering, but not long, and I know I have a lifetime friend.
Anyway, I think it's a need. HUMAN touch. Not an optional thing for me.
I survive without it, thrive with it.
I think I'm happier in myself since Mom moved out because she was so unaffectionate. And needing human touch, it's harder to live with an unaffectionate human than it is to live alone. For me.
(My dog Bagel has done a very good job with me, for the animal affection part!)
Hops
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I think my greatest need now is for personal integrity. I need to be authentic about my feelings, to myself ,first,and then to others. The harder part is to accept my own feelings,as OK, not bad.
Ami