Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Lupita on September 27, 2008, 08:07:22 AM
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How to discern?
How do I know he will not destroy me? I mean, not flirt or cheat, or leave.
I mean, clear your bank account, not that I have too much, just for my rent, but how to knoe that he is not going to ruin your career?
He is constantly taking pictures of me without asking me. No, nothing inappropriate.
He introduces him self against my will, when I meet somebody in the street or on the beach, I do not introduce him and he introduces him self, instead of giving me my space, and allow me to introduce him when I am ready to introduce him.
I told him yesterday. He said that he is going to see how he behaves today. We have a party today. I am giving a party in my beach apartment for our walking club. This was my party, and now it is our party.
I told him I do not want to live with a man, I have been alone for 20 years and he does not believe me.
He left his shaving cream in my bathroom, he put a short cut in my cmputer for some pictures that he sent me. He did not ask me.
He offered to defrag and erase my temp files in my computer because he is good in computers. I said, hell no, you do not go through my stuff. You tell me how to do it and I will do it my self.
I am setting boundaries, but he is so pushy.
But only pushy men can deal with me because I am so reluctant to every thing that if a man is not pushy I would never ever have relationship.
This is our third week dating every single day. I donot know if I should tell him to back off.
OK, I do not want him to leave, just to give me space.
There are strict rules in my condo, where I rent, they have lobby guards, and visitors have to register and residents have to write papers to allow visitors to enter the condominium.
He said, thet I did not have to worry because the guards already knew him. I said, I am not ready for the guards to know that I am dating, why did you make your self known?
Again, I donot know if he is trying to block me from any possibility, to mark me as his property, or to urinate on me as animals do to mark their territory.
Either he is needy or he is control frick or I am sick too for liking him. What is my contribution to encourage his behavior?
After my party today, wich now is our party, I have to give serious thought to this, either inmerse or bail out of this.
He reads wayne dyer, he likes self improvement, he is onto diet and exercise, he walks with me seven miles a day, he does whatever I want to do, he registered in salsa dancing classes just to be able to dance with me. He wants to see me everyday.
I like him a lot. But I am comfused.
Somebody help me.
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The thing is that when I was fat, and had a regular apartment nobody wanted to date me. I lost weight and suddenly more man want to see me and go out with me and I get an apartment on the ocean and suddenly tones of dates are coming.
If I stayed fat, I would not had anybody right now.
That is the problem.
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Lup: Take it from someone who doesn't listen to others regarding men...................take it slow. I know when your heart feels that pitter patter it is hard not to let your emotions take over. I think you are wise to be reluctant. Also, do not get swept off your feet. Get to know him. Tell him. Tell him you have been burned in the past and you need to take it slow and see how it goes. If he really likes you he will stay the course. Don't be stupid about it, just take it slow. I have often told my girls that if you immediately hop in bed with someone you become a piece of meat. He has to work very hard for you.............a priceless jewel.......
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Dear OC, I am surprised of such a wise advise from you. But you said it, you do not listen, but you know what is right. You sounded so wise, so thoughtful, your advise is giving me so much insight, you sound so insightful, so intelligent.
I have seen you complaining so much about your mother and your husband and not doing anything about it, but now, I am doing exactly the same. I thought you were immature, and Forgive me please for that, but now I see, that I am too. I am doing the same way. Getting involeved with a control frick and complaining about it. It is the chemestry of the foo, the constant abuse, it stays there forever. He makes me crazya about him, hemakes me crazy. It is the foo.
I relate so much to you now. It is the foo what makes us fall in the trap.
You sound like an adult.
Now I understand you.
I am behaving like a child now, but when I see other poeple's problems i advise like and adult.
You are adivising me like a wonderful woman that you are.
Thank you so much OC, for being non judgemental, I will listen to you. I will. I will take it slow. I promise you. I will make him back off. He is going too fast too soon, too much.
I do not have any family to protect me, I do not have any moeny, I have no cushion to fall in when he does if he does something bad to me. I have to be very careful.
OC, you are so deam right.
Thank you so much for writing.
OC, you are a wonderful woman and I feel very much shame that I thouht you were immature, you are a good human being with a huge heart and I apologize to you because I was not understanding why you put up with your husband.
OMG!!!!!!!!!
Now, I am entering something that could become a nightmare, I need to follow your advise and be prudent careful coutious, there are no words to express my fear.
Thank you OC for your advise.
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This was my party, and now it is our party.
He left his shaving cream in my bathroom, he put a short cut in my cmputer for some pictures that he sent me. He did not ask me.
But only pushy men can deal with me because I am so reluctant to every thing that if a man is not pushy I would never ever have relationship.
This is our third week dating every single day. I donot know if I should tell him to back off.
He said, thet I did not have to worry because the guards already knew him.
Hi Lupita,
IMO, these are very big red flags that he has the traits of an abusive person. You yourself say he does NOT respect your boundaries. RED FLAG
You have only dated him for 3 weeks?? Every single day??!! Sounds like he is trying to take over your life & control you.
After 3 weeks, you ask yourself this question: How do I know he will not destroy me?
If this is the question that pops up in your mind, I say run. On both your conscious & subconscious level, you feel he could destroy you.
You are not listening to your gut. You are not happy with him, but you are not listening to yourself & letting him take control.
This is the problem: But only pushy men can deal with me because I am so reluctant to every thing that if a man is not pushy I would never ever have relationship. No. Wrong. You have a faulty, skewed, damaging belief about yourself and this belief will really screw you up, especially if you get further involved with him. Please work on understanding why you view yourself this way. Do you have a therapist to talk to?
I would not had anybody right now Lupita, it is better to be alone than to have an abuser, but alone or abused is not your only choice. Work on getting rid of your bad self image and date men who respect your boundaries.
He makes me crazya about him, hemakes me crazy. It is the foo. Yes, you're right, it is your FOO, but you already know that, so why play the game? You allow him to make you crazy. He can't make you crazy if you don't allow him, don't play the game.
Lupita, this is a wonderful learning experience for you: You recognize he is an abuser, and you're saying "Hey, wait a minute, you're an abuser & I see that & I choose not to play this game. buh-bye".
Next time, you will choose a nice guy who respects your boundaries & you'll take it slow.
Sorry I'm so forceful, just don't want you to get hurt.
love,
ann
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ann, probably I am getting too paranoid because of hs behavior, but you are right a bout something, I need to have a councelor.
You are right about that I feel he is trying to take over my life.
OK, here is what I am going to do.
I will try to enjoy "our party" today.
Sunday, I will tell him that I am too tired because he visitns me everyday, and with a very nice nice way, because I do not want to make him my enemy, I will make him to leave immediately after our walk everyday.
Let us see how understanding he is about that.
Thank you ann for your answer.
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I hear you, Lupita, ease out of it.
I do not want to make him my enemy, The fact that you think he could become an enemy shows that he is not your friend, doesn't repsect your boundaries.
probably I am getting too paranoid because of hs behavior I disagree. You are not being paranoid. He is over stepping your boundaries.
But, Lupita, don't be afraid. Calm down, feel your power, stay strong and handle him with a firm, but gentle hand. He may try to scare you if he smells your fear, so try not to be afraid.
Tell the guards to not just let him come up.
Don't let the thought of him ruin your party, that would be giving him control. Take back your power & have a good time and stay strong.
love,
ann
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Ann
YOU are a genius. I am bringing my next problem to you! Ami
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hi Lupita
First, I think every day is a bit much for a new relationship.
I definitely sense he wants control
He is automatically thinking you don't know what to do on a computer by saying he will do this and that for you. (I can tell you how to dump your .tmp file and how to defrag, if you don't know)..you can say you have someone who helps you when you need that person, or that YOU are the only one to touch your computer. (After I left N, we were talking, as I needed peace not fighting, as I removed my name from the business. I was new with XP and he asked if he could come and use it just once, as he didn't have XP yet. Bad boundaries still for me and he must have installed Keylogger while at the computer--to spy on me. I found it with my sweepers and dumped it on my next maintenancce day.)
Taking candid shots of you is annoying, right? Maybe he thinks you won't pose for him, or maybe if he shows his pictures to others he can admit he doesn't know you---N/Ps will do that.
He is really infringing on your private space, and once I learned about that, I can really tell, with my discomfort, if anyone is doing that.
If he is an okay guy and just does not know the social/dating skills, he could very well appreciate the kind way you are instructing him iin these social graces.
Good Luck
Izzy
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Thnk you Izz. yes I need your help in how to defraga and how to erase temp files.
Yes, he is controling, but I do not mind that. That is OK as long the controlling is just that, on our relationship, and not becuase he would like to clear my bank account, or he might destroy my teaching career.
Just to control, I do not mind that. I enjoy his company very much.
He walks, he diets, he exercises, he is doing everything I like. I dont mind him controlling or being the lieder, or him thinking that he is the leider.
As long he does not want access to my bank account, or he does not want joint credit cards, or he does not interfere with my son, or the things I like to do, he can control me. After all I have to work, there is not much to control.
He is very needy, I dont mind that.
As long as he goes to his house to spend the night, I dont mind the control.
There are things that I do care. If he does not mess with that, it will be OK.
The party was a complete success.
A woman was making passes at him and at the end of the night she was drunk and she sat on his lap, I told him, "did you take your medication?" he got mute, the woman said, where is his medication, I said, in my apartment, he got up the sit and walk away, I told the woman that i was not mad at her but at him. I told everybody he would be dead meat that night. I told everybody that he had epilepsy, which he did not have, but he did not care to fix that. Then I told everybody that he had a brain tumor, which he really had, but he will be OK. He did not fix that either. He did not even got mad at me for ridiculling him.
After everybody left, he and I had a huge fight and just made out and we are fine today. That made me relize that I do not want to lose him. And because of my reluctance to show our relationship to others this woman jumped at him, she would have never done that if she knew that him and I were involved.
We decided that from now on we would not hide our relationship.
I like him a lot. Hope that this works out. I am giving him a chance, and my self a chance to have a relationship for the first time in 20 years, twenty years.
I do not know if these are signs that he is winning the battle against my independence, or I am giving my self a chance to love for the first time in 20 years.
Hopefully, we still have this wonderful board, and I will keep you infromed so you can help me as usual. You are great help.
God bless you all.
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Hi Lupita,
Glad to hear the party was a success.
I wish you happiness but please be careful.
I agree it's fine if he's a leader, but do you really want to be controlled? Maybe you meant to use a different word?
I told everybody he would be dead meat that night. I told everybody that he had epilepsy, which he did not have, but he did not care to fix that.......He did not even got mad at me for ridiculling him.
Lupita, why did you say these things? Why did you want to ridicule him, especially in front of other people? Sounds like you are playing games. Just my opinion.
Maybe I shouldn't post on this thread. I don't think you like or share my point of view.
w/ love,
ann
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Hi Lupita
Don't lose your personal control to this man...in a way it is nice when the man 'takes the lead' in suggesting a movie, restaurant or something else, if you don't have any particular favourites.
I would like to read that you are using a some different words, i.e. control. leader, or your having to ask a grown man if he took his meds, just to get him away from another woman, unless he asked to be reminded...
Are you talking epilepsy and brain tumour to keep the other women away?
"I like him alot", you say! So, if your money/assets are still the way before you met him then you are okay. Don't lend him money.........it ruins a friendship is the best answer as it does, and ruins any relationship in or out of family.
If you are being friends only, is there an agreement about who pays, and when?
If you are 'put out' at him, tell him when you can, but not obviously in front of strangers. Don't riducule/get angry by proxy i.e. through someone else.
I will send another with pictures to help you defrag and delete unnecessary files.
Those sound like 'orders' but are meant lovingly
Izzy
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Defrag is done by the computer when you tell it to.
Click on the image below to make it bigger and take that route, from the START button. no image
When you click on Disk Defragment, another window pops up and click "Defragment".
WHY?
It's like a file drawer that someone not too coordinated and doesn't know ABCs, has been rifling through, removing a sheet of paper file from one folder, but returns it to another, many times over. So when you try to run a program, the computer wanders all over hell's half acre to find where all the files are, when they are not together.
Defragmet and all is well. Do about once a month.
Notice difference before and after.
IMPORTANT: Defrag when you are not going to be using the computer. Turn your SCREENSAVER OFF. (I put defrag on when I go to bed) It's as if you're trying to straighten out the file drawer and the blonde dipstick comes along and puts a Z paper into the A folder and the defrag has to go all the way back to A and start again.
Izzy
OK pictuire was too large for here.
START button-----> Accessories---------> System Tools-----> Click on Disk Defragmenter.
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Hey Lup: Well, I haven't been called immature for quite some time - a whiner, yes, but not immature. Yes, I guess I am the queen of "do what I say and not what I do!!"
I tell you to be careful because I was not and now I am reaping the consequences of my poor impulse control. I was trying so hard to shake my mom's control over me while she was trying to fix my last boyfriend that I jumped into this. I realize now that to stick it to my mom is to stick it to myself......
The key is to not be impulsive but be careful. I am living with a man who has a drinking problem. Yes, I still love him but his disease is awful to me.
And yes, I complain about my mom but until now everything did not work out and I refuse to jump before I am ready.....that makes it worse than it should be.
Don't let him control. Lead? Yes, control, no.
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for deleting files--Click images below to make larger OOPS--file pics too large to upload. You can follow this.
Open Internet Explorer. Go to Tools menu and choose Internet Options, then, see Delete? Click there and the 3rd picture comes up. You can read what these are for but Internet Files is the main one as there is a temp file for every page your view and every image on that page. If you open the Forum 10 x in one day, you have created 10 temp files, plus 10 image files.
Cookies are good but when I deleted mine, I lost the cookie to my bank account and since I cannot remember what my answers were to 3 questions, I cannot re-register. (WHAT WAS my favourite colour?) I have a cookie for the TV Guide and if it's deleted, I just have to re-type My Postal Code.
History is every page you visit and it is where people can see where you go. I have my History set for 0 days, so every midnight it clears.
Forms--take Google for instance--records whatever you type , so you can find it again with just the first 1-2-3 letters typed. It would clear all your forms data. I keep mine to remind me if I sign in there with an email address or an ID name as I am all over the world
Passwords---I would NEVER delete that
Let me know if you see this and do it and it works? as well as defrag.
xx
Izzy
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Lupita:
I really really really hope you will reconsider being OK with his need to control.
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Dear Lupita,
ANY relationship is not better than NO relationship.
Positive relationships with kind positive healthy friends or a kind positive community is a very good grounding for making better choices.
I am very concerned about his need for control and your need for drama. The party stories made me feel sad and sick for you.
Please read Escape from Intimacy by Anne Schaaf. What you're doing sounds like fusion, not love.
You may be risking more than you know.
with love to you,
Hops
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Lupita:
If you have time, could you start a new thread about your job and son.... how the new place is working out?
Some updates on other things in your life, please?
Lighter
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I'd just like to comment on your thread... and not post on the board, if you don't mind.
First.... I think this boyfriend relationship is unhealthy.... and that it feels comfortable and good bc it's familiar to you.
Second.... you guys aren't setting any boundaries, and it seems like crossing them would be a requirement, if you did. n Yikes..... Lupita..... please think about this.
Third.... you don't have to make your relationship public, for him to behave appropriately with other women, in front of you.
He should have handled it better.
You should have ignored him and maybe ended the relationship, when he didn't.
Another option would have been to take him aside quietly, at your first opportunity, and state a boundary like:
"I'm uncomfortable with your behavior tonight. If you continue to behave this way I will know that you don't want to have a relationship with me and it will end."
Then go back to the party and see what his choice is. If he corrects..... he's honoring you. If he doesn't, you provide the consequence you stated, and walk away (without anger and yelling.)
These are my comments, not criticism.
That you seem to be getting dependant on this relationship is alarming. It's not healthy to invite a controlling dysfunctional person into your life, though it'll be a BIG learning experience if you continue.
It's headed to heartache and confusion.... I want you to see it written out clearly, by a friend, before it goes farther.
Keeping this guy at an emotional distance and enjoying some time with him doesn't seem so wrong....
but.....
I really wish you could skip the more painful lessons.... and start learning from healthier ones for a while.
This is a letter from Lighter, and I decided to make it public because it is so wise letter, so insightful, so intelligent, that it is a waste that other people do not learn from this letter.
Dear Lighter, I am terrified with your wirds. I am afriad that you are totally right. He is spending the weekend with me. He is going to church tomorrow with me.
Yes, I agree with you that he should have behaved better no matter what. I am afraid that everytime that I do not give him what he want he is going ro punish me the same way.
I think this is not going to work. I am just trying to enjoy the present which is very nice right now.
Please, tell me what you think I should do next. I am relaxing, and I will keep him at an emotional distance. For example, I do not see him during the week, we only spend weekends together. he has nothing to do with my finiantial things, he does not need anything from me, he is independent, he is 63 years old. I hope that we are just having fun now. Hopefully we are never going to live together, or enmesh in a finantial situation. NO, that is a boundary that I will set very clearly. No fianatial things.
What else do you suggest that I can mark as a boundary? Give me ideas, because I do not know about boundaries, I am going back to counceling next week, that might help.
Hopalong, what do oyu mean that I might end up losing more ? Please be more explicit.
Guys I need ytour help now.
He loves wayne dyer, self help, he speaks in a nice way, he does not care a bout money, he is not judgemental and all the acuantaces that I have now really like him.
I do not know what to think.
OK, be more explicit.
Love to you and thank you so much for your adivises. I am looking forward to hear more.
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Lupe:
It looks like you're already somewhat emotionally dependant on this man.
Advice from Hops, to take a class on asserting yourself.....
doing some research on healthy boundaries and enforcing them.....
would be a good idea, IMO.
I'm picturing you in a circle.... (figuratively, as firm boundaries you state and put in place)
"I wish to keep our relationship private, for now" for example.
He respects your wishes and discusses it with you calmly, when he needs to revisits that subject, or he states his boundary..
"I can't do that and I'll have to leave the relationship, in that case."
You both have enough information to make big people decisions, without crossing boundaries or disrespecting each other.
What happened, isn't acceptable. It's an alarming glimps at the future of this relationship, IMO.
You state a boundary.
He disrepects it, behaves innapropriately then blames you for it.
You react, accept the blame and change your boundary bc you're becoming dependant on the relationship.
That's what I see.
You can comfort yourself about financial independence and your ability to keep him from crossing other, more important boundaries, as you see it, but.....
If he's crossing the first boundary then makes excuses and defends his right to do so..... he's likely to keep crossing them. Maybe he doesn't even understand what's happening himself.
But you do.
Now you have another choice to make. How to revisit this, like an adult. This is another life skill you're practicing.... it doesn't have to be the end of the world, bc Lupita is stating boundaries and consequences. Calm down..... write about it and really spend some time thinking about boundaries you want to set and how you'll handle them, in any case.
He needs to know that you aren't going engage in this type of relationship and if it happens again..... you'll follow through with whatever consequences you set.
Can you do that?
If you aren't sure what your boundaries are, that makes it much harder to enforce, IMO.
I think that first boundary, to keep the relationship private, was appropriate and reasonable. Don't you?
Lighter
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Lup, I completely agree with Lighter on this:
What happened, isn't acceptable. It's an alarming glimps at the future of this relationship, IMO.
You state a boundary.
He disrepects it, behaves innapropriately then blames you for it.
You react, accept the blame and change your boundary bc you're becoming dependant on the relationship.
That's what I see.
You can comfort yourself about financial independence and your ability to keep him from crossing other, more important boundaries, as you see it, but.....
If he's crossing the first boundary then makes excuses and defends his right to do so..... he's likely to keep crossing them.
My feeling is that you are not in love with him, he's just available. I understand, I have been lonely too.
By paying more than you know I mean the ultimately exhausting, stressful, depressing end of an unhealthy relationship that could have been ended much more easily soon after it started.
hugs to you,
Hops
PS-- I don't think you need advice on strategies to control him in order to keep him. I think you need advice on not compromising your serenity and your privacy for anyone. The boundary is: You come in to another area of my life WHEN INVITED. You do not TAKE, you ASK.
But in honesty, with someone like him at age 63, I wouldn't try. Not any more. I have decided to accept that people are exactly who they are. You aren't talking about negotiating simple things out of mutual consideration between 2 healthy adults. You're talking about defending your core space and your sense of safety from a man who behaves with ENTITLEMENT...one of the core red flags of narcissism.
xxxooo I'm sorry.
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I gotta agree with Hops and Lighter on this one, Lupita. It seems to me this man isn't seeking a relationship, he's staking a claim. Kamikaze relationships--fast, intense--are N hallmarks, as is behaving like he did at the party. It's still early days and if he's on the up and up he'll have no problem with you wanting to slow things down and have some personal space.
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Lupita,
Here are 2 good books on boundaries. I've read them both. IMO, once you understand what a boundary is, you will automatically know how to set them and when someone has crossed them.
Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No to Take Control of Your Life (Paperback)
by Henry Cloud (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/
Boundaries - Where You End And I Begin: How To Recognize And Set Healthy Boundaries
by MA, Anne Katherine (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/
Here are some good web sites you can read right now:
Setting Personal Boundaries - protecting selfhttp://www.joy2meu.com/Personal_Boundaries.htm
What is a boundary?
Signs of ignored boundaries
Rational boundary building thinking
How to establish healthy boundaries
Steps to establishing healthy boundaries
http://www.coping.org/innerhealing/boundary.htm
For what it's worth, I agree with Hopalong: At 63, I doubt this guy will change. Also agree that this sounds more like fusion than love.
Good luck,
w/love,
ann
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Well, I guess I am not going to neet any advise anymore. We just finished. He wanted somrthing I was not willing to give. I got terrified that he would punish me again and just offered him a ride home.
During the ride home I told him that I was afraid that he would be looking for somewhere else for what I would not be able to give him nad that I did not want to have a boyfriend anymore.
I was wondering what was my contribution to his behavior. I really liked him. I really enjoyed being with him but I am not willing to sacrifice anything. He was willing to commit and I was not.
I am so sorry! He even went to church for me. He gave me all the attntion I wanted. I did not reciprocate him the same way. I told him I did not want him in my kitchen. I told him I felt intruded when he went to my kitchen and fixed an egg because he was hungry. I was being selfish.
I am so sorry. But despite the fact that I told him that I did not like it he still went and did it. So, there is a fact. He does not respect my desire.
He is pushy and he does not know that he is pushy.
I am so sorry.
Well, I am alone again in my apartment like I have been for twenty years. I did not lasted just four weeks.
I am so sorry.
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Dear Lupita,
I'm very sorry your heart has been traumatized. It will get better. The pain you feel now won't go on without end, but it will go on for a while. :cry: I'm not too good at romance counseling, but I have had my heart broken a few times and remember how awful it was.
tt
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Lots of love and comfort to you, Lupe...
Do one thing?
Please don't say "always" or "never" to yourself, about yourself...or your future, especially now.
I'm sending hugs and comfort, you are going to be okay.
It was a hard decision but I have faith in you.
I'm sure you said what you needed to.
Reminded me of your mother who was always intrusive in your kitchen.
It was good PRACTICE. Keep the line moving!
love, peace...be kind to yourself...
Hops
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I'm so sorry, Lupe.
Can you share how your interaction, over the last disagreement went?
He asked for something.
You didn't feel comfortable with the request.
How did you handle it and how did he handle that?
Sounds like you just skirted it and ended the relationship bc you didn't want to deal with his actions after you stated a boundary?
That CB asks you to explore this, is very wise.
Understanding yourself better....
leads to more/better choices.
Lighter
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So sorry for your pain.
ann
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Looooopeeeeeeeeetaaaaaaaa!
Honey where aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaare you????
Check INNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN please!
xxoo
Hops
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Gjazz, Ann3, Hopsywopsy, Light, CB dear CB, TT
Thank you so much for all your advises and help.
I am just checking in because Hops asked me, I do not feel well. I am a little disappointed of life and human kind. Also, of every eight persons, at least four have a personality disorder. Not only that, but there are more women than men. Where ever you go you are going to find more women than men. Plus, more men dye every day, and more women are born every day. Not to mention that at least a 20% of men are homosexual.
So, it is very difficult to find a man that besides of being a man has economic solvency and a nice personality and healthy personality and also is willing to go out with you when there are hundreds of younger woman wanting to go out with better bodies and economic possibilities.
Anyway, I am aware that I do not want to bring a nightmare in my life. I know that W and I have problems and he is control frick.
He things that we only had a misunderstanding, he does not understand that I do not want him any more. Iy is going to take a lot of intelligence in my part to finish this. But I have to do it in a way that he does not feel offended in his manhood because he belongs to my meditation club, to my walking club and to my salsa school. Also, I want to keep him as a friend, because I cannot make him my enemy, he lives very close to my house and knows all my friends.
Now I have to be very intelligent. I did not let him come a visit me last noight after our meditation class, and I will not let him come tonight after out walk, and let us see if little by little he loses interest, also, he might start flirting around, and when he does that I will have the opportunity to make him proud of my finishing with him, without him to be offended.
So, I have to prepare my stomach for what is coming.
Yes, I am sad and disappointed.
W called me and he wanted to pick me up for the walking tonight. I said I can walk there, it is two nlocks from my house. He said OK.
I do think that I am going to be alone for the rest of my life.
Not to mention that I have problems ar work, not like I used to in my other school, but it is not easy to be a teacher these days nad I have nobody to love me.
Not my mother, not a boyfriend, I hardly ever see my son, it is very lonely here.
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Nobody to love you? How about you? I know of someone who once said, "loneliness isn't being alone. It's loving other people in vain." So if you choose someone who's in it for something other than love, you resign yourself to a lifetime of loneliness in that person's company. Know what I think is worse than being single? Wishing you were. How about taking some time to really focus on yourself, learning to meet your own emotional needs wherever possible, trying to find joy in the freedom of the day? That might sound a little pollyanna-ish, I know. But when life hands you lemons....
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Lupita,
I am sorry for your pain, but, I think this could be a break through experience for you IF you want to learn the lesson based on this experience.
I see this as a victory for you, which you could celebrate. Why? 2 reasons:
1st, you realized this guy is an abuser and that is a MAJOR recognition, a Major accomplishment.
2nd, you decided that you will NOT subject yourself to an abuser and ended the relationship. This is another Major accomplishment.
Lupita: these are 2 BIG accomplishments and you are NOT giving yourself ANY credit!!
Would you do that to your students? Not give your students Credit when they EARNED the Credit? Because, that is what you are doing to yourself: YOU ARE NOT GIVING YOURSELF ANY CREDIT!!!!
So, ask yourself: "How come I'm not giving myself ANY credit for my accomplishments?"
Ending this relationship is like graduation for you: you are growing up & moving on, from High School to Graduate School. You identified an abuser and you decided to stay away. Could you have done that 1 year ago? Can't you see that you have grown and matured? I hope you can see this and you will celebrate your accomplishments.
Next, can you also realize that this experience is an OPPORTUNITY for you to further improve yourself? You said you need a pushy man because you lack motivation, but that is not true. Can you examine why you have that misperception of yourself?
I agree with Gjazz: we need to make lemonade from the lemons. Maybe the lesson that you need to learn (that we all need to learn) is that the most important person we will ever have a relationship with is ourselves. The only person we are with from birth to death is ourselves. Therefore, we have to learn to love ourselves and if we don't love ourselves, we need to figure out why we don't.
Did you read about boundaries?
Lupita, I think this experience is a blessing in disguise. I know you are hurting, but try to see the opportunity you have to grow as a human being.
Gjazz: I love what you wrote. Insightful, truthful words to live by. Thank you for that.
with love,
ann
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Thank you for checking in, Lup...
you have been brave and assertive and resolute and I really, really admire you.
What you "think" (I'll be alone the rest of my life) isn't real...it's just a thought.
And
I
do
not
believe
it
I love you!
Hops
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Hi Lupita,
I have read this thread, but have not remarked since I said every day was too much!
I think, sometimes, people might feel it is 'embarrassing' to be alone. Think of all the Freedom one has, living alone. All kinds of male and female friends to invite over, or to go out with and it doesn't have to be every day or every week.
(Don't we all have to take time off to shop, clean, do laundry, etc. when we want to and then see our friends when we want to.
Then there is work. Money! My goodness! (I work part time just to have something to do) people work at jobs they like and the job is totally separate from the personal life.........................................well that is my thought. I hated, that after my car accident, my boss went to see my parents. I HATED that! IT WAS A BOUNDARY VIOLATION TO ME!.........and I was paralyzed and who was I to tell people what to do?????
Well now I know what I could have done. Boss could have mailed to my parents instead of inserting himself as part of my family!
After I left my D's father, I was alone with her for 2½ years, then the accident, then back to her from age 6-19. then alone, alone....that is from 1983- 1998 (15 years) then I met the N, 4 years, left him and now 6 years alone and with what I know now, alone is best.
..................then again it might be my age. I still get horny but there is no one I want!
Be grateful for everything you do have, live well, be happy and helpful, and forget about love. If you chase it--it will flee...I'm thinking about the "happiness is like a butterfly...if you sit still it will land on your shoulder."
Don't feel desperate, don't look desperate, don't choose an N; Love yourself and then love will find you!
Love
Izzy
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Hops is right, Lupita.
Your fears are just thoughts.
Fearing what may happen.....
is futile and not helpful.
There's a saying:
"What you fear will find you."
I want you to stop fearing...
and start thinking about what you do want.
((((Lupita))))
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Started new counceling. She said nothing about W. She just said to enforce my boundaries and see what happened.
I am just taking it easy with him. Do not want to offend him, he is too enmshed in my life, I have to be very careful. He is in salsa, in meditation and in walking clubs, all the activities I have, he is there.
At the mean time, I started having problems at my new school. This time it is not the teachers, the principal and the teachers are very supportive. This time is the eight graders who are the oldest students in the school. But this are very rich kids and very spoiled.
I teacher 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8. All are wonderful classes except the 8. The 8 are very difficult. We had conference night last night and of ten conferences 8 went wonderfuly. Two went bad, of course, 8th graders flat out lieing to their parents, with dram queens mother and girl, fortunately the husband was reasonable.
The other, is very bad, she is totally rotten. and those parents will pay consequenses for not teaching responsibility to thier kids. But, fortunately, of 200 kids, I teach 200 kids, eight different classes, work like a beast, and only one group gives me problems and of that group, it is not everybody, but just a group six, maybe five, out of 200 kids. I work so hard, that I get home exhausted.
Eight different preparations a day, four different subjects, all different grades, very difficult.
But I have survived eight weeks already.
All my classes are a piece of heaven except the 8th.
Thank you for listening.
-
Well.... you had trouble with only one class last year too.
Now you have the support of the other teachers and princial..... a huge improvement.
Question: What are the problems you have with the students?
What are your choices, when you think about dealing with them?
Are they disrupting your class or failing to participate?
Are they getting passing grades?
What are your options in dealing with them?
Pull back, gain some distance......
Lighter
-
We spent this weekend together. I did not have the courage to kick him out. I mean, I could have asked him to go away, but I could not. I like all the attention he gives me. Ge goes to church with me, he takes me pictures playing the organ, he took me to a Latin concert, he discovered a noise in my car, I took my car to the dealership and they had to change the alternator, he is giving me something I have not recieved in 20 years.
I am not ready to let him go. I want to enjoy it while it lasts.
-
I mean, I could have asked him to go away, but I could not.
Lupita,
Just change the wording of your self-talk from "could not" to "did not". Or "chose not".
It's okay to make this choice, as long as you own it. There's nothing wrong with enjoying the relationship, even if it isnt everything that you want. Just keep choosing to do what you do. It will build your inner muscles.
Much love,
CB
-
Lupita:
You don't have to ask him to leave your life.
Just.....
to respect your boundaries.
Lighter
-
Thank you CB and Lighter.
He is needy. I know. He is controlling. I know. But I like it. When it turns bad, if it does, then I will do something about it. For the moment, I am enjoying all the attnetion that he is giving me. He really worships me. He spoils me, with attention adn doing everything I want.
It is nice to feel the princess for onece.
I will enjoy while it lasts.
God bless.
-
It's OK to feel like a Princess, Lupe.
It's not OK for someone to treat you well, for a short time, in order to gain control over you, for a longer time.
In that case.... it won't ever be OK, will it?
Lighter
-
Thank you Lighter. Hopefully that will not happen. If it does, then I will take care.
Thanks for being concerned about me.
We spent the whole weekend together.
We went to chuch together, we went to dance salsa, he is here now.
I am teaching him my boundaries. He is learning little by little. I told him that next week we are only going to walk together nad he has to go home after the walk.
Today we walked with the walking club and I was the only woman with a boyfriend, and he made me look good. I love it!
-
hi Lupita,
We will each do what we want to regardless of what others say, but at least when receiving advice, you know we are thinking of you, and trust that you are thinking of you, too.
Love
Izzy
-
::nod::
What Izzy said.
Lighter
-
I was the only woman with a boyfriend, and he made me look good.
What's this about for you, Lupita?
Is it competing with other women...looking good to them?
Is that about your mother?
Is it about looking good to yourself?
I don't know why I ask except that I felt sad when I read it.
love to you,
Hops
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he is an allien. He is a robot. He reflects every thing I do or say. If I laugh he laughs, if I dress up, he does too, if I say I like soemthing he suddenly likes it too. He does whatever I want.
It is very strange!
Has anybody has seen something like that?
We have been together for two months now.
Hope to hear from you guys, if you have seen a person who imitates what you do. It is like he does not have a personlity of his own, he only reflects what I do. It is teaching me a lot because I see a reflectiob of what I do and I do not like it. So, that means. some people do not like me for the same reason.
Have you been with a person that does that? MY MOTHER
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mY MOTHER IMITATES ME ALL THE TIME. He behaves a lot like my mother but he is not maLIGNANT. Only possessive. But it makes me feel well that he tries so hard to please me.
I am getting used to his presence.
-
There is no one there. Hmmm. I do not understand but I understand.
No one there. Then, who is there? Is it an empty brain?
Well, that is the only kind of men I attract. I have never attracted a councious man, with awarenes and presence in life. Never!
It is sad. I do not know what to do.
-
This is an important lesson for me. I am learning how to set boundaries with out getting mad. I tell him to stop something and he tries. He does it again and I tell him in a more firmer way and he tries. It is like with the students.
Now he respects me more than before. He knows that my house is my house and he cannot behave like my house is his house. He is learning. I am setting boundaries. Little by little.
It is also helping me with my m,other. My mother did not call me for my birthday and I did not cry at all. She just sent me e mail. But he had me so busy that I could not even think about my mother and now I look at it retrsopectively and I DO NOT need my mother.
If he leaves, I will learn not to need him either.
God put us together for a reason. He is learning from me and I am learning from him, he is not judgemental, not critical and very humble. I am learning to be a better person with him.
I think I am starting to love him.
-
Just remember that setting boundaries is only part of the equation.
Enforcing them, no matter what, is the other part and it's not easy.
That you can do that, without getting angry, is a good thing.
As for you setting boundaries, and your friend "trying" to repsect them..... what does that mean?
Is he respecting boundaries, or appearing to make the effort?
I really don't know what it means, Lupe.
Lighter
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Dear Lupita
If you and he can grow together,it will be beautiful. I am having that,now. We have a child like love that I have never had before. I think these are once in a lifetime,or never. If you have that Lupita, grow with him. Stumble and fall with him.You and he will heal together .
Your relationship sounds beautiful to me. Ami
-
If you have someone who has a mirroring personality, and you want someone to reflect yourself back, you are fine. My mother does this and I can say it's pretty tough to live with after awhile, because it stops being confirming and starts being parasitic.
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What is a mirroring personality, Gjazz? I never really heard of it before. I hope *I* am not it. Ami
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Echo Personality Disorder
Written by: Ganymede
The term Echo Personality Disorder was coined by British Psychosynthesis practitioner Patrick Hurst, as a replacement term for 'Inverted Narcissism' and 'Covert Narcissism' which later terms place unwarranted emphasis on narcissistic qualities of the personality, which in many of these individuals may not be a feature at all.
EPD is a highly differentiated form of Dependent Personality Disorder, marked by behaviours of compliance and a need to 'mirror' significant others -parents, spouse, friends, employer. Individuals with EPD may be attracted to relationships with individuals showing marked narcissistic traits -people who need to be mirrored or praised- though this in no way forms a "standard" or "universal pattern" as is often claimed by theorists. EPD individuals may enter into relationships with a great variety of people, though at core there is a tendency to choose situations in which unrequited love will be the outcome.
These traits -choosing significant relationships where love can never be satisfactorily consumated, and the tendency to mirror significant others- were motivating features for choosing the term Echo Personality Disorder. In Greek mythology Echo was the lover of Narcissus. In this myth Echo, a forest nymph, falls in love with the egocentric youth Narcissus, and when he shows clear signs of rejecting her she persists in her attatchement, and will not be moved from her aim. She finally satisfies herself with the masochistic task of echoing back to him all that he says. This too is a central feature of EPD behaviour in relationships, where the individual will mirror, echo, and compliment another at the expense of their own self-worth and dignity. This echoing behaviour, though, does not exhaust the mythological potential of Echo, even if commentators on the myth narrow their descriptions to this single episode with Narcissus. Echo also has relations with Zeus, Hera, Pan, and Gaia, which have a different coloration to those she has with Narcissus, and has many friends in the form of other forest nymphs -"sisters" as we would call them today; attesting to the complexity we find within the Echo personality constellation.
Self descriptions of EPD individuals often relate a lack of self worth, and an accompanying fear of rejection, abandonment, and loss, as a result of feeling "unacceptable" to others. These agonizing fears are a driving force behind the above-mentioned interpersonal coping style (mirroring and reflecting others). These individuals protect themselves from rejection/abandonment by acting so agreeable to others, via their mirroring capacity, that chances of re-experiencing abandonment agony is brought to a safe minimum. Others generally enjoy being around the benevolent atmosphere cultivated by an EPD individual. Unfortunately this interpersonal style of relating amounts to a false existence with little or even no true-self expression, leading to poor psychological health, and lack of identity.
One characteristic predisposing background of EPD involves individuals being parented by caretakers who are themselves self-absorbed, narcissistic, or overly punitive. In this kind of environment the child learns that asserting one's 'true self' will be met with a form of (often serial) rejection, to which the child responds by substituting 'compliant' behaviour in place of true selfhood. Such compliant behaviour can then be witnessed as a stable feature throughout the child's growing-up years, with other school children, and within the family.
Depression, smoking, alchoholism, and addictive behaviours all occur with very high frequency in this personalty type.
On a more positive note, EPD individuals are excellent contributors to society and family life; are often perceptive of the needs of others; and enjoy contributing in a helpful fashion. The highly respected religions of Christianity and Buddhism are based on such principles of altruism and charity, and this is a lifestyle at which the EPD individual can be said to be expert. Good traits such as these cannot be written off with a catch-cry of 'pathology', and if the EPD individual can regain a healthy sense-of-self whilst maintaining these good traits, they have the potential to become paragons of social behaviour.
-Essay based on Patrick Hurst's definition of EPD.
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Yuch
I AM Echo PD. Ami
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Hi Ami, I do not believe that you are echo, but you certainly have displayed strong traits of it.
My boyfriends deos that. He is a veteran of Vietnam and was in 22 combats. He has PTSD. And I do believe he has serious probles of self esteem.
But, remember that the last perfect person was crucified two thousand yeasr ago.
Perfect person does not exist and much less a perfect relationship. All relatinships cost a great deal of effort and work. We just have to decide if we want to pay the sacrifice or to have the effort to keep the company of that person.
That is where I am right now. Trying to decide if I want to go to all the trouble fo a relationship for a man that has a very low self esteem and does everything I want, mirrors everything I do or say, changes his opinion just to agree with me and is so clingy!
So, there I am, trying to decide or just wait till I am totally tired of playing tennis on my own.
He really makes my life much easier. He even helps me typing and writing power point for my lessons. He types what I need and send it by e mail, also walks with me evry day so I keep in good shape.
Do I want an empty brain that makes my life easier and gives me compaby or I want salt and pepper from a man with a real personality and make my life more difficult, but provide me with chemestry. Or probably somebody i will never find and end up being alone again forever as I was for 20 years.
Tough decision.
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Perhaps you and he could grow ,together, Lupita. It seems like your other guys were more N types. This one seems more submissive, so it is a whole different ball game for you.
My hope is that you can help each other and yourselves grow as people and as a couple,if that is what you want. Ami
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Yes, sorry, I've been away--Echo and Mirroring Personalities are the same. Vacant, tend to take on the characteristics of whomever is around. I think it's quite common for them to be attracted to people with NPD and vice versa, because Ns love seeing themselves reflected back, and Echos do this almost unconsciously. I've often thought Ms (if you will) seek to abdicate responsibility and avert criticism. In my mother's case, this seems to be the case. Of course, when you give up power to Ns....well, we all know how that goes.
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I hate when he reflects my self, I hate it. I do not like what I see, I wish he had his own opinion and offer some kind of protection and teaching to me. He makes me feel like an adult and he is the child. I hate it.
-
Lupita
At first, you had N's and now you have the opposite, an Echo. I wonder what happened? What do you think? Ami
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I haven't made a study of EPD really, so I can only speak from my experience, but in my case, my mother wants me to be the parent. She wants to be the child. She wants me to tell her what to eat, wear, say, think, feel. I feel this is about not wanting to take responsibility, not wanting to be accountable. There's nothing too small: in the car, if I lower my window, she lowers hers immediately. If I put mine back up, so does she. There's a very "monkey see, monkey do" quality to all time spent with her. That may be why she was attracted to my very N father. All I can say, Lupita, is that this is not better than an N. My mother has a quite parasitic personality. If the man you are seeing has this disorder, you'll feel like a shell of yourself in short order, so be careful.
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I do not know if I am getting tired of him but I did not feel like seeing him last night. I wlaked on the beach on my own and had a good time.
I am not happy with him. But, as strange as it is, I feel peace with him. Just calmed.
He does not give me chemestry or excitement, just a sensation of security, not even that, it is just tranuility.
Should I change that for excitement and passion?
Craving for a person is neediness, clingyness. That is always bad. Carving for a person is an addiction. I do not have that. That takes away excitement, but gives you peace.
I constantly see his inperfections. I know that is bad on my part. I do not tell him. I know that the perfect person does not exist and I am not perfect either. I have my issues.
So, that is where I am. I do not know what I want.
I prayed the Lord for a man who wanted to dance and walk and diet and exercise. i got it. And I am not happy with it. He is not intelligent enough. He does not challenge my thinking. He is too easy to read.
But if he was challenging he would make me feel insecure. So, there is no good place for me. Not yet.
-
See what I mean? Today I am feeling like I am getting an infection and with my medical knowledege I know that I need antibiotics and for that I need a prescription.
I was looking in the internet for hours a walking clinic open in my area on saturdays and was not successful. I finally decided to call my BF W and he immediately found one and he is on his way to pick me up to take me to the doctor.
That is the kind fo peace that he gives me.
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Lupita,
There's nothing wrong with peace. Peace is good.
Can you just enjoy the peace--don't agonize over whether you should want something more or different? Can you just take a night off from seeing him and enjoy your solitary walks on the beach--without feeling guilty for enjoying them?
Sounds like you two have a lot in common and if you just enjoyed that and gave yourself plenty of space to enjoy your solitude and other people, you could have an enjoyable relationship. It doesnt have to lead to the romance of a lifetime.
I'm sorry for your angst, Lupita. Sometimes I think that we N-survivors analyze stuff to death. I know I do.
Much love,
CB
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CB, you are so deam right!!!! We analize so much, looking for something hidden, something that we know or we think we know there must be there but we cannot see it and we investgate, and search.
You knew exactly what I was talking about!!!!!
That is amazing!!!!
We are just thinkig for a reazon instead of just enjoy.
The power of now. There is nothing you can do with the past, nothing you can do with the future, only the present.
The only moment you can change is the present.
The only momnet you can enjoy is the present. And we continue with inevstigating why this and whuy that and we forget to enjoy the present.
LOL
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Hi Lupita,
He does not give me chemestry or excitement, just a sensation of security, not even that, it is just tranuility.
I think you're really onto something here: tranquility. What I am working on is to feel that tranquility within myself, without looking to another person to give it to me. How to achieve this? live in the moment, meditation, self love, acceptance of things we can't change. It's not easy to do, but that's my goal.
Should I change that for excitement and passion? That's not your only choice, it's not black & white. We can have tranquility within our hearts & souls & still feel excitement and passion. One does not cancel out or exclude the other.
I agree with CB: take a step back & live in the moment, it doesn't have to be the romance of a lifetime, it is what it is & he is what he is. Try to find the tranquility within yourself and live in the moment. Don't look for perfection.
CB is right: angst & analyzing stuff to death. We need to stop allowing our minds to spin out thoughts round & round.
Glad your BF found a clinic & hope you feel better. Try to relax & enjoy the relationship for what it is.
xoxox,
ann
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He does not give me chemestry or excitement
Lupe, are you taking any medication that would even out your emotions? Even B/C pills? A lot of our emotions and passions are driven by our own internal chemistry--hormones, etc--and if you are taking anything that alters that chemistry, what you are feeling (or not feeling), could be the result of that.
Such a small thing...but I have a personal experience with it. When I first got married 30 years ago, I was on B/C pills that were too strong for me and they suppressed hormones that I needed to feel sexually responsive. It took only a few months to figure out what was going on and fix the situation, but it affected my marriage (because of my H's insecurities) for YEARS after.
Anyway, its a thought. You might decide its okay--worth it to avoid the highs and lows--or you might want to talk to your doctor about alternative therapy.
Love,
CB
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What is B/c? I am not taking any meds. Just ati in lamatory for artiritis.
Chemestry meaans excitement, not lack of libido.
Libido does not equALS excitement, intellectual excitement.
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B/C = birth control
I thought you meant physical chemistry....that's hard to manufacture if it's not there...
Intellectual chemistry should be easier. Maybe find something that you can do together that is intellectually stimulating? I know that a lot of what you enjoy doing is very physical--walking, dancing, etc. Maybe you could share a more intellectual experience? A class? A trip?
Anyway, remember to have fun and that he doesnt have to fulfill everything you are interested in.
Love you,
CB
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Love you CB, this is funny, not b/c here, I am a menopausic b%tch. :lol: :lol: :lol:
I need intellectual challenging from my partner and if I do not get it I feel depressed. He gives me everything I need except intellectaul excitement.
He does not have any money at all, but that is not important. I do not care about money. Just the intellectual thing. He is a very simple man.
How do you get along with yours? Do you have any intellectaul disequilibrium?
Do you feel satisfied with thim?
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Oh CB, you are such a deep intellectual person. I want to meet you one day. I am so much honored to be your friend!
OK, back to business, I very much appreciate your opinion. And again youa re right. He cannot be everything. He is taking dance lessons, walking five to seven miles a day with me, diets, exercise, my basics non negociable.
I guess I have to get the intellectual from somewhere else.
Your writing keeps me interested. You are one of the few that can bit my ADD, when I start reading your posts I cannot stop. I am sure there are other people here who enjoy your writing. So talented!!!!
Well, that happened to me too, about NH, he was the most intelligent, he still is, person that I have ever met. His verbal skills, his reasoning skills, capacity of abstraction, and ability to analize things, were hypnotic to my sense. I satrted reading books other than textbooks, thanks to him, he read a lot. I grew up intellectually with him. No emotionally, but intellectually. Enotionally I was retrade, going backwards with him being more childish and more motherless and less aware.
With W my BF, I get more aware.
The intellectual is a turn on chemestry for me but I guess it has to be negociable because I do not think I am going to find another man who treats me well, and dance, and walks, and humors me in such a nice way.
So, I have to enjoy. Enjoy the now, the present, since it is the only we have, the present.
I have to meet my needs on my own. I have to grow up.
It is difficult not to have the same language. W is WASP and I am Latin, not native English speaker, so if there is a language barrier, it is compensated by his slowliness. LOL
I do not love him yet, but I appreciate his presence in my life nad I am grateful for his company. Love will come with time.
I am sure that passion love is poisoning with pathilogical FOO and addiction to the person, intoxication, etc.
So, just to have eachother is good and feels nice.
Love you CB.
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Hey CB, I have to ask you, do you enjoy spicy food? I love tacos with very picante salsa. Do you?
I love huevos rancheros, or huevos a la albanil, which are fried eggs swiming in salsa verde with tortilla and melted cheese on top.
Does he sing Cielito Lindo?
Do you like tacos al pastor? HMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!! I am salivating!!! I do homemade salsa very picante!!!! No apt for heart condition people.
:lol:
Do you like soft tortilla? Hot tortilla coming from the comal? I made hand made tortillas I put chees and salsa and you have a wonderful quesadilla there.
OK, back to love, do you get bored with him?
I think that W and I get bored a little but we do not care becasue we enjoy having eachother.
What do you think?
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This paragraph really impacted me. Becasue I should not need anybody to meet my needs of any kind.
That just hit home.
I have to meet my needs on my own. Period.
Not that I do, but I that is the way it should be.
The following was written by CB. Good stuff.
I don't think you can find one person in all of life that will satisfy every aspect of who you are. If you need intellectual challenge in order to stay grounded emotionally, you need to find ways to meet that need. Don't expect your partner to meet all your needs--although if this is a major, non-negotiable one, he may not be someone you can build a deep relationship with. I guess what I'm saying is that it is too much pressure on any one human being to ask them to be everything you need.
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Lupita, you are so lovable.
I hope love does come gently for you both...and bring you warmth, safety, closeness, and one day even joy.
((((((((((Lupita))))))))
Hops
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Guess you hit the neil. The secret is joy.
But joy comes from inside.
Not from outside.
Nobody can give you joy.
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Dear CB,
I know I have and occasionally still am dealing with this too, and I know how much it hurt:
the sense of entitlement that they have displayed and the guilt-producing (in me!) disappointment that I am not the endlessly giving mommy
And had I known then what I know now...bygones, hindsight, too soon old too late smart!
What I know now, I mean, is that endlessly giving mommy = entitlement in child
Oops. Well, what the hey. My D is leanring too, and not liking it much (as in, I expect you to pay me back when you have money the money I gave you when you were up against the wall and gave me no notice).
I am very sorry. I know how much it has hurt me at times and I can't imagine that feeling x 6.
May love and appreciation from all your children soon return to you sixfold. I believe in one way or another, at different times from different ones, it will.
Much love,
Hops
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The concept of what needs we meet is an interesting one.
In my relationship, I feel best when I feel that sense of self and at the same time am open in a childlike way with him.
I am seeing that my first love must be me. The first person to honor and love and must be me.
When he and I love ourselves more, it spills over to each other and feels safe.
The Bible says that we should not "oppose" ourselves. I have done that since my early years.
It was a forced defensive posture so I could live with the grief of my life.
I see the grief now so am letting that posture go.
Ami
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CB hope that you read post 76 and tell me if you like all that.
This conversation is becoming very intersting to me!!!!
I am learning here from you guys so much!!!! All of you!
I appreciate his company and his presence. I am learning humblness from him. I am learning to be more thankful of God and of life for all the things that I have instead fo being sad for the things I do not have.
He irritates me a lot. He wants to sepnd too much time with me. He behaves like a child sometimes. But must of it, I am learning about my self. Because he mirrors me, I see what I do in video, in front of me, and I do not like it. I know that I am full of problems but with work, I will improve and be a better person.
So, i will ust enjoy the now, the present, and detach from whatever the results are.
At least, that is what I will try to do.
Just try to enjoy.
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Back to what we were talking about needs, for the first time, I disagree with my beloved CB.
I still believe that we need supply when babies, but when adults we should depend on our selves.
Deoending on other people is built castles on the sand and will set our selves for disappointment constantly,.
All meditation teachers advise for detachment, give up the hope for aproval, give up the hope for acceptance, and love what ism whatever it is, because when you are in A and want to be in B is when you get axiety, and stress. Have you seen a flower with anxiety or a frog with stress disorder?
I am just repeating what Ekart toly says in the POwer of now, or howver is is spelled.
I find it very interesting and it has made me not happy but more content.
You need to kill the disire for other people, just accept what is and love what is. Not have what you like but like what you have.
I mean, reasonably, if you are being abused you need to get out of it. But I mean you know what I mean.
Anyway, jus wanted to say that.
Dear CB, all my love to you.
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I had a period in life when I met my own needs and I was happy. Ami
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Thank you for answering my quetions. It is a lot of fun reading your answers. It is amazing that you have food in common. Food is a huge part or latin culture. Food is so important to share same tastes.
W sweated with a picante beens I gave him and he was red and I called him P**zy and he got very much offended. I promissed not to call him that again. Yesterday we were in our seven mile walk adn he said that he needed to take thre trully because it was too cold, and I said miou, miou, kiddy, kiddy, kiddy kiddy??????/ And he got so mad.
I think it was fun.
But he wants to spend too much time with me and that makes me feel uncomfortable. But if I tell him he will get his fullfilled self prophesy of "Nobody wants me around" but he never asks him self why nobody wants him around becasue he does not give a chance to be wanted. How can I miss him if he does not give me chance to miss him?
Anyway, that is just one of the problems, easy to solve, as soon as I take responsibility and tell him what to do. I hate to tell him what to do. I want him to guess that I need time on my own.
I do not know.
He has made good friends with the guards in my gated building. I hate that. They let him in whenever he comes even if I did not signe the papers for his entrance.
Yesterday he made a comment that the guards told him that he is here so often that he needs to have a sticker ofr his car. I am thinking that if he gets to get a clandestine sticker just to come here wheneve he wants he will be dead meat with me.
Anyway, that is it.
He is a slow learner. But he is learning. Little by little. He has no boundaries and I am teaching him. I told him, "everytime you cross my boundaries you push me away"
He said, tell me everytime, I do not realize I do it.
I believe him because it has happened to me all my life that I do not understand why people get mad at me and I consider my self dislexic for human behavior. So, I believe him when he sais that he does nto know.
I do believe that he was emotionally abused by his father and probably by his mother too. That is why he has no self esteem. I think we can help each other. I am going to try.
Detach from outcome is the most imporantan and enjoy the present.