Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Dawning on November 22, 2008, 09:23:40 PM
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Dear everyone,
I just moved back to the U.S. about one year ago, after living abroad for 17 years. I have heard the term, "white trash" used before but I never could get my brain about what that term means. I think I may be dealing with someone who is white trash, but before I jump to any conclusions, I wanted to hear what anyone here may have to say.
Thanks, as always.
Dawning.
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Hi
To refer to a family to which you likely can relate, I suggest the Connor family......Roseanne's ex-TV show
..lacking in money, social graces, maybe even out of work and they don't care.
...maybe too many children
...maybe no indoor plumbing and use the Sears catalogue
...old, worn or ripped clothihng, lost buttons, would likely (the man) wear white sox with his "dress shoes" with a hol;e in the sole, and his suit pants too short and doesn't even notice or care. (just examples)
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It's the N-word for poor or uneducated white people.
It's mean, since it implies that these human beings are garbage.
Hops
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I think it's the sort of term that generally speaks volumes more about the person who uses it than about the person/people being so described. It's just my point of view but I'd steer clear of using it.
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Dawning,
White trash is always what someone else is. No one EVER describes themselves as white trash.
"White" is, of course, politically incorrect, and trash is, well, without value. And no one who would call someone else trash, would think of themselves as without value.
However, it's a great red flag about the person saying it--if they'll say it to you, they'll say it about you.
CB
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Labels intended to cast others as ignorant and vulgar have a way of reflecting those qualities on the speaker.
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This thread makes me laugh. Some of the biggest bullies on the board acting righteous when s/one uses a word like "white trash".
Well, what about bullying s/one(me) who came on the board,in good faith, and who was hurting.
People can really fool themselves as to their OWN intentions.
I thought when people talked in a righteous way, they would ACT it.
I don't put myself above it at all.
My nature has the same hypocrisy as any one else's.
Ami
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Ami: perhaps you saw my response as critical of Dawning? I don't see it that way. She did not use "white trash." BEFORE using it she ASKED for a definition of a term with which she was unfamiliar after years abroad, and deserved an honest response. An honest response respects the person asking the question, and I happen to respect her for asking the question. Rules for myself on this board include 1) being honest 2) being helpful and, if my comments might be hurtful as well as helpful, saying nothing unless the helpful aspect is likely stronger and more useful than the potential for hurt. I know perfectly well I have not bullied you, however, I feel it is impossible in an open forum for all people to have a positive impact on all others. I shall of course continue to try to improve myself as a human being--be righteous, if you will. Speak righteously. And yes, act righteously.
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Dawning,
I read this last night and was too tired to reply. I was wondering, though, why you needed a label for this woman? Obviously she is unpleasant in ways (maybe many). Why does she bother you, do you think?
Love,
Beth
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On my very first night in a foreign country years ago--a country I'd be living in for awhile--I used a phrase common here in the US, not an insult at all...but it was an insult there. I didn't know, of course I wouldn't have said it, and all these years later I still blush thinking about it. Lucky for me my hostess that evening took me aside, or I could easily have repeated it at dinner. These things happen. Common usage one place, another meaning altogether somewhere else.
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People can really fool themselves as to their OWN intentions.
So true.
Thank you for the replies. I did not see them as being critical and I appreciate the feedback. I also have alot of faith in the responses I've received here over the years, and most of them have been incredibly helpful. I think, as a person who has felt voiceless in life, that I can share my voice here in an honest manner. So, thank you again to *all* the responses.
I met a man several months ago, when I was new to this town, who helped me in every way he could...but expected a full blown-out steady relationship in return - on his terms. He lives with his nephew in a trailer park and refused to bring me over for a visit right from the beginning. Once, when we were out, he got angry and thought I was flirting with somone...he came back to my place and let himself in (the door was unlocked) and passed out, after breaking one of my wine glasses. Another couple took me home. I refused to see him. He apologized and we took a trip to LA together, and he paid for everything. He often complained about his manual labour job and the treatment he received from his boss. I told him that, instead of complaining that he should empower himself. What I did not see was that, more and more, I felt he was getting dependent on me for counseling and help. I told him not to call me and I started seeing other people. Once, he came over, "with a buzz on," he said, and didn't make any sense at all. After I basically kicked him out, he called me three times and left long voicemails throughout the entire evening and up until around 2am. I agreed to meet him and he brought his dog along and a bouquet of flowers. I told him that I felt we could not effectively communicate but that he has alot of potential and that I felt he should get more education in order to get a more rewarding job. I then took him to meet an artist friend of mine, and he (in front of my friend) accused me of being a horrible, insensitive person in front of my friend while telling my friend (in front of me) how much he loved me. Then, he became verbally abusive to me, so I got up to leave. He forced himself in my car and threatened several times to jump out. He burned a cigarette on the palm of his hand, and threatened to have me kicked out of town. He kept using the expression, "game on," which I did not understand at all. At this point, I retreated far, far away from him and started to see other people and fill my life as best I could. However, because I was (and still am in many ways) in a very vulnerable positoin and haven't met any real friends, I began to call him again, with the caveat that I felt he had issues and that I would help him - especially if he wanted to take some courses or apply for entrance into a junior college. I told him that I would type his letter as he can't use a keyboard. I intuitively knew that he and I were at different stages of awareness and I continued to reach out in order to meet friends, not a guy necessarily. But, as time progressed, I increasingly started to realize that he wanted "things," when he wanted them, and on his terms. When I tried to bring up my feelings, he screamed at me on the phone and wouldn't let me get a word in edgewise, all the while saying that he was the good person and that I had "zero compassion."
I say all this in the past tense because it hit a crescendo yesterday evening. I asked him earlier in the week if he wanted to go hiking and he said, "maybe." Yesterday he called and wanted to know if I could meet last night for a "conversation." I said that I had plans. Then, he screamed at me and said that I lied to him; he wanted me to help him when he put his dog to sleep, and that I had gone against my word. I ended up having to leave him a voicemail explaining what I couldn't explain because he was never letting me speak. He called at 830pm and said "goodbye." I guess that is the end of it.
I don't know what "white trash" means to some people...so I googled it. And then I wrote here.
It is the same old thing with me...wanting to help people get over their issues so they can lead more productive lives. I need to concentrate on myself and my own issues. I KNOW that. But I am new here and finding it hard to make real friends. When this man doesn not feel threatened, he is fun to be around but I can't give him what he wants. And when he doesn't get what he wants, he lashes out. That scares me and, more and more, I realize that I am not responsible for helping him become a happier person. So I have to let go. I've never met anyone like this man (except my mother, perhaps.) Maybe he fits the stereotype of "white trash," but I think he is really, really immature - like my mom. And there is only so much I can do.
In the meantime, I am very tired of all this crazy drama and I broke my little toe last night when I was so upset and ran into my house too fast. My life is so complicated and weird at the moment...I need islands of sanity. Instead, I feel like I am walking on eggshells around a man who has issues of his own that he can't look at. I can't make him look at those, obviously. I can't fix him. The hardest thing is that he feels I am the one who is mean and lacking in compassion. When I meet people like this, I feel a little kernel of anger too. Moral of the story: be aware of how loneliness and vulnerability can lead people to make mistakes - that is what I think we would all do well to realize. Thank you...I now see that I should have compassion for myself. I hope he realizes that one day too.
Dawning.
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I can't fix him. Amen.
Moral of the story: be aware of how loneliness and vulnerability can lead people to make mistakes Amen.
Hi Dawning,
Sorry to hear about your toe. Get well soon.
To me, these 2 statements sum it up. He sounds troubled. Glad you decided to steer clear. Yes, we can't fix anyone else, we can only fix ourselves and it's so good when we realize how our vulnerabilites, like lonliness, leave us open to destructive people. I think this is true no matter one's socio-economics, race, gender, etc.
Please take care of yourself & don't let him evoke guilt in you. If it were me, I'd steer clear of this guy. He is troubled and will likely cause you more trouble.
xoxo,
ann
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Dawning: "game on" sounds like a threat. Burning himself sounds irrational. I realize it's in the past now--I hope you can reach out to others in your community. I've moved a few times and know how hard it is. Thanksgiving can be a good time, actually. When I was new here, I went and helped out with a community dinner for those in need, and had an absolute blast. In many places there are lots of community/charity volunteer events around the holidays, if by any chance that works for you. Take care and hang in there. It's tough being in a new place.
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Thank you Ann. As usual, the love on this board will see me through. You all are my friends, even though you are not here to have brunch with me right now. You'll be in my thoughts when I sit down and order an organic muffin.
I also see that, after being screamed at and hung up on, that I wanted to find a simple answer to this man's behaviour. But, of course, White Trash doesn't refer to the uneducated who live in trailer parks. I think it might be better to do away with that term altogether and not even ponder it.
What I am getting more intolerant of is the immature behaviour of adults, who seem - by choice - not to want to learn.
p.s. Should I go to a doctor for a broken little toe? I sometimes do adult ballet and other forms of dance - and I don't want a broken little toe to have life-long repercussions.
Dawning.
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Dawning: I'm with you on the immature behavior. Screaming, hanging up, showing up drunk--you're better off without this guy.
I broke my toe a year ago and the doctor said, "it won't kill you, nice to see you, goodbye." But I'd still go see one, because all breaks are different and some can cause infection.
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Dawning,
Immature, yes, but he sounds much more troubled than that. Agree w/ Gjazz, try to get involved in a local Thanksgiving & meet new people, but if you sense that type of behavior, back out & away. We ACONS need to find emotionally healthy people.
Yes, go see an MD, esply if you dance.
xoxo,
ann
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Dawning,
I wondered if something like that was going on. I'm sorry for what you are going through with this guy. He doesnt sound good at all--he sounds like trouble.
Where does the white trash reference come in? Is he calling you that? Don't let that stuff stick--I meant what I said: that kind of stuff says more about the speaker's character than it does about the person he's referring to.
Do you feel as though you can break away from this guy? Do you feel trapped in any way?
Love
CB
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Oh my goodness! This guy just called me and there is no doubt in my mind that he is confused and hateful. He called to "apologize," and then said, "goodbye, oh compassionate one. you are bipolar, you truly are" - and hung up. He also told me that he has my electronic dictionary in his car...the one I have been looking for all over the place. I said that I needed to get that back at some point and he said that he would decide at his convenience when he would relinquish it and that now I would know how it felt to be left hanging in the air. At least he didn't make any threats. He has threatened before to go to the school where I work and make things difficult for me. His nephew's girlfriend is friends with the daughter of the woman I work with and this colleague of mine is also on a power trip herself. Life is so complicated. I am a little scared. It seems like it might not be easy to break away from him...he is incapable of listening when he feels threatened. He can't let go of me and the need he has for a healthy relationship but he doesn't understand how to have one and I am trying but he is not on that road yet. He is needy and he is starting to not make any sense at all! I'm so sorry that I got involved with him. People beware - especially when you are emotionally vulnerable. I pray that this will all end soon without any violence of any sort. He seems like a lunatic at the moment to me.
Thanks for listening and caring.
Dawning.
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Yikes, Dawning. I'm lying here in bed with the flu thinking, I'd go to the police. I wouldn't threaten HIM with that, I wouldn't say a thing to him, I'd just go in and tell the police what you've experienced and let them know he has your property. Maybe that sounds extreme but he has roots in the community and you don't, and you need some people on your side here. Whether or not the guy is actually dangerous, you sound afraid. Would you feel better if others were clued in?
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Dawning,
Forget the dictionary & buy a new one. Can you just forget about anything you left at his place?
Ya, he's scary & he's trying to scare you. IMO, do not contact him or communicate with him. Be careful & watch your back. Probably/hopefully in a few weeks, he will find another victim to be his girlfriend.
I think you are wonderful for pondering the 'lessons learned'. Yes, this man has taught you a lesson on what you may need to work on: codependency, self esteem, boundaries, etc. Maybe read some books on these subjects.
xoxo,
ann
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Geez.
Dawning, I read your first post wrong. I thought someone was calling YOU white trash and I was offended on your behalf. I didnt realize you were trying to figure out how to explain someone else. After I read Ami's post, I thought what the H___????
Personality disordered is probably a more accurate term for him--and maybe something more serious.
Here's the long definition. I find that google can be more helpful than a dictionary...
http://kpearson.faculty.tcnj.edu/Dictionary/white_trash.htm
CB
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Dawning,
PLEASE draw a firm line.
I know you're lonely but calling him, talking to him about ANYTHING, is a red flag (to a bull).
I believe he's dangerous because he has rage against women (you) and he drinks and he's resentful and possessive and obsessive.
I won't call him that particular slur but I do think he's a raving loony, and dangerous.
I agree with Gjazz that having a discussion with the police is an excellent idea.
I believe you need to Just Stop communicating with him. Hopefully, the extended (hopefully permanent) silence will cause him to eventually give it up.
If you keep rationalizing contact with him, you endanger your peace and safety.
It's not real connection, anyway, when someone's that needy and resentful and volatile. It's being a hostage.
Be safe, be proactive, forgive yourself, don't ruminate about him or his emotional state. Now's the time to make a BOUNDARY, and then guard it.
You can do it. I know you can.
Please keep us posted!
love,
Hops
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Hi Down, so glad you got away from this guy!
Good for you!
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My ex came from a family correctly called white trailer trash......these people think poor. Think victim. Think welfare. It would have been easy for the kids to get federal money for college because they were so poor......but they didn't even think help.....
What happened to my ex is he became a con man of sorts. He still has that mentality but puts on a fascade. Then he finds a better off woman to fall for him and take care of him. He is articulate (my mom paid for his college) but cannot ever convince someone he is interviewing with to hire him. He can dupe women but not interviewers. I guess if the interviewer was a woman he might....
Con men.....maybe that is it..
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Hi everyone,
I thought it might be worthwhile adding this to the mix of opinions. I find the last sentence of the article of particular interest now that it appears that our nations sweeping influence on the world may be shifting.
Highbrow
Origin: 1903
Americans can claim credit for both highbrow and lowbrow, the upper and lower levels of culture and cultivation. Highbrow seems to have come first, most likely around 1903, but lowbrow is close on its heels. In 1906 we have examples of both. That year the writer O. Henry refers to "the $250 that I screwed out of the high-browed and esteemed B. Merwin during your absence." As for lowbrow, we find it in S. Ford's Shorty McCabe: "The spaghetti works was in full blast, with a lot of husky low-brows goin' in and out." In Collier's the next year is a reference to "the overwhelming majority of Low Brows, who never read 'Peer Gynt.'" And in the Saturday Evening Post for 1908, we see highbrows again: "It takes all sorts of men to make a party, and Mr. Hearst apparently led in a few prize-fighters with the other high-brows and reformers he accumulated."
From the start, both terms were applied with tongue in cheek. They referred to the discredited phrenological notion that a person of superior intellect and culture would have a high forehead while an ignorant boor would have a low one.
A 1916 reviewer in The Nation took the distinction more seriously. Highbrow and lowbrow, he said, "stand for more genuine differences than Democrat and Republican. The one class has ideals, but no experience; it has flowered in an unfruitful transcendentalism. The other class has experience, but no ideals; its finished product is the millionaire. Each class looks with contempt, or rather with indifference, upon the other." The reviewer lamented this split, but in fact the two extremes of American culture seem to have prevented either side from taking itself too seriously. In the rest of the twentieth century both highbrows and lowbrows have had such success that American science, scholarship, and art on the one hand and practical inventions and popular culture on the other have swept throughout the world.
tt