Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: sKePTiKal on December 09, 2008, 07:32:48 AM
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I've been wanting to start this thread for weeks, but the transitions in my life and the inability to log in here from work have gotten in the way, up till now. (still can't get here from work - long techie reason). My life is changing quite a bit. My dad left quite an estate, including a prosperous, growing business and my brother and I each will own equal shares of whatever the government (estate taxes) don't take. The role of business owner is settling in on me like something I've been preparing for, all my life. But, there is still quite a bit of learning required and I've been going after as much information as I can process in each big gulp, before I have to breathe again.
Understand: I was a single mom in the 80's trying to scrape by on minimum wage. In my Twiggy days, we were so poor the income of the poverty level seemed like an unreachable, fantasy goal. I was able to get the education and experience I needed, to finally achieve "middle class" status at this point in my life. My share of the income from the business - if it remains after probate - is several times my husband's and my current income. We expect probate to be finalized in March or April.
At the same time, we have new leadership at school and they haven't waited very long to start making some very significant changes. For years, I've chafed in frustration over tech projects that needed to be done but were not considered important enough to be funded. And in the past month - all of them have been funded and are expected to be completed - successfully - in the shortest time frame possible. I'm the project manager for at least 3-4 of these and highly involved in some others. My boss is no longer the one making the decisions or directing the implementations. He is rapidly becoming only the person who sits in that chair. The irony of this, in light of the fact that I expect to not need this job in a few short months, almost delights me. Almost, because my job isn't such a big part of how I see myself anymore. I'm in the zen-zone of being able to "do" what needs doing, without being emotionally invested in it... or more so, than in the past. I would like to see these projects accomplished and what kinds of possibilities open up, because of them.
So, the image I have of myself these days... is that I'm perched on the highest mountain, right on the edge with my arms outstretched. I feel like I could soar; I feel this "itch" in my bones to try it. But I can't take that first step off my perch. It's a long way down, as I know so well... because I remember all the trials & tribulations of getting to this place. I remember all the old crap that was pushed onto and into me that formed my self-image. The sly whispers of "who do you think you are?" and "you'll fail at everything you try" and "you're not doing it right". These kinds of old-pattern thoughts are like concrete shoes keeping me stuck right on the edge of a wonderful, new experience.
So, I went looking for inspiration... working with the phrase "self-determination". Then, motivation... how could I motivate myself to simply push off - to let go - and see what happens? Believing that I could fly... and I found a wonderful article: "Self-Determination Theory and Facilitation of Intrinsic Motivation, Social Development, and Well-Being". Authors are Richard M. Ryan and Edward L. Deci. Published in American Psychologist, in 2000. It's a pdf, so I'll have to bring it home and attach it, or copy the link, for everyone. I've been working with the ideas in this paper for a while, to test for myself whether the ideas "fit" me or not. Whether I'm ready to start working with these ideas... and push off that cliff I'm stuck on.
These ideas are combining nicely with my idea that boundaries aren't just separations between people; boundaries are also the way we connect with people. That a boundary is like a socket and a plug - this is a hidden function; not simply a wall or moat or line that defines me-other. A boundary is where we find common experience, feelings or experiences that "resonate", where we actually connect with other people. Like "talking over the fence" with a neighbor. And sometimes, we open the "gate" in the fence and invite people in or we go visit.
This is getting long, so I'm going to describe this Self-Determination theory in the next post.
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What made me think this paper was valuable was the description of "3 Nutrients" that are essential to the individual sense of well-being. They are: competence, autonomy, and relatedness.
Motivation - self-motivation - comes from an intricate balance of these 3 Nutrients. Some of the 3, are genetically wired into us... and some of the nutrients come from our interaction with our environments. It's a mixture; a blend. The paper mentions, but doesn't discuss, that poor parenting, abuse, and over-controlling environments can negatively impact well-being, by denying individuals a self-feeling of competence, autonomy and relatedness. Many of the examples refer to educational or work environments - but it's pretty easy to relate these to my FOO.
To develop a sense of competence, you have to be allowed to do - and learn from your mistakes. If criticism, and negative abusive judgement accompanies that "lesson"... it's easy to adopt the attitude that "I'm not good at that" and to avoid situations calling for that skill in the future.
If an individual isn't allowed autonomy - and those of us with N/BPD members in FOOs can relate - then actions, thoughts & feelings are being controlled by someone else... approval is needed prior to trying, doing anything. Going back to competence - if you are then criticized and nit-picked to death for not immediately mastering something without being given a chance to learn & make mistakes - it's easy to adopt the attitude of "why try?" and "I don't matter; what I want doesn't matter". <as a side note: this thread is, in a way, me looking for your approval... some feedback from you all that there is value in these ideas... so that I can fully embrace them... sigh.>
Without relatedness - connection with others - there is no context for individual being. What I mean by this, is that who I am actually depends a great deal on other people in my environment: those boundaries, again. In isolation, "I" can be whomever, whatever... as the spirit moves me... but my identity, my external me... is a relationship, with boundaries as connection and/or separation, with the roles I have and the people - with their roles - that I interact with. Isolation of myself can be counter-productive to developing self-determination and motivation, is the conclusion I'm coming to. My extremely inpenetrable boundaries (my own fantasy of these & "shut-down", don't go there habits) contribute to my being "stuck" and not able to simply leave my perch and try to fly. Relatedness implies that other people will be there, too... helping keep the air under my wings... and showing me new tricks to try just for fun. And vice versa. I think relatedness is where we find personal meaning... but I'm still looking at that.
So if any one of the 3 nutrients is lacking... or we are denying ourselves or being denied any of the "recommended daily doses" of those nutrients... self-determination and intrinsic (inner) motivation suffer. The conclusion I'm coming to, is that this is why some habits are so hard to break... and why I had such a strong tendency to self-sabotage.
This is too brief, incomplete, and I could very well be making some wrong assumptions... I know I'm not addressing everything. I'll post the link to the paper, tomorrow or maybe someone can google it and post it from the info I gave. (running out of time, right now)
I'm bringing this up, because I'm trying to figure out how this works for me personally. To un-stick myself... take that doozy of a first step without fear. And maybe it'll shine some light for someone else, too.
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Hi PR,
It's wonderful hearing the energy in your 'voice' about all you're learning, your inheritance, and the new things going on at school. Reading your thoughts is uplifting.
These ideas are combining nicely with my idea that boundaries aren't just separations between people; boundaries are also the way we connect with people. That a boundary is like a socket and a plug - this is a hidden function; not simply a wall or moat or line that defines me-other. A boundary is where we find common experience, feelings or experiences that "resonate", where we actually connect with other people. Like "talking over the fence" with a neighbor. And sometimes, we open the "gate" in the fence and invite people in or we go visit.
I've discovered that some of the most helpful boundaries I have are ones I've drawn between myself and I. Some circumstances in my life, for example the estrangement between me and my sister, have interfered with the quality of my life for years. Before she passed, I chalked off the day my mother died as the day that would end all efforts to resolve the differences between me and my sister. Freedom, sweet freedom. There are other areas where I've established self boundaries that free up my insides. Creating boundaries with myself, for myself is just as important as those I construct between me and others.
Thanks,
tt
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Amber:
I felt so calm as I read your first post.
What an amazing journey..... thanks again for sharing it with us.
You've taken so many steps and solved so many issues on your path..... I think you're on the verge of another large lesson.... what a blessing.
This is such a good thread ((((Amber))))
Lighter
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I agree, Light...calm. Nice!
Amber, 2 small thoughts follow your biiiiiig ones:
--A hug is a boundary.
--Smoke is a boundary.
love to you,
Hops
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Light - SOOOOO good to hear from you! I am able to read at work (but still not post), so I saw your post yesterday. The interesting thing about this "phase" is that I'm finding so much more life in my life. I'm involved with it... asking for & getting what I need... connecting with people on my terms (so different from before - it was always someone else's terms)... and I'm creatively engaged. Only the "art" work I'm working on, is myself, in a lot of new situations.
TT - yes, boundaries with myself too.... places I connect with myself... things I do/don't do... this is a whole new concept for me and your thread of context, is shining some light on this work. Being forced to work with my brother through this probate process is revealing how deeply the FOO dysfunction really is/was. And I've got reinforced boundaries about old patterns right now, in that area. Brother went so far as to launch an attack on me because I talked to the trustee, without consulting with and talking to brother first about a fairly routine matter. And I drew a boundary - clearly, respectfully & calmly - that he couldn't tell me what to say or do - or think, feel or want. That we're going to have to negotiate, disagree and compromise on lots of things - which is normal. And that's when my sibling anger was triggered and I just wanted to haul off and smack him... the way I communicated is a big improvement for me.
Hops - yes. I see, hear & grok... and I can finally see that my T was right... and how this will work. Her idea that one day I'll just stop smoking. As I gain experience with all the other types of boundaries... my confidence in them increases... and the irrational "need" for my magic talisman - the cigarette - goes away... and I only experience the negative part of smoking... the negative effects. I'm in the process of replacing that illusion of a boundary: the smokescreen: with more effective ones. As the irrational need decreases... so does the "remembering" to smoke... the habit itself. Without conscious effort... I'm smoking less. Hopefully not too late.
This article just makes so much sense to me. The pdf is just over 2mb... so I can't upload it... here's the link:
http://www.psych.rochester.edu/SDT/documents/2000_RyanDeci_SDT.pdf
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YAY! I'm back on from work!!
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PR,
Love the article. Does it interface with the low context/high context article or what! I don't know why, but it seems I'm stumbling across one after the other article that confirms or compliments these two.
I'm in a situation similar to yours and Hops with estate matters. Mine, at least at this point is not nearly as complex as yours.
tt
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So there's some synchronicity going on with us, huh? There's also some high-powered "juice"...
--A hug is a boundary.
--Smoke is a boundary.
These 2 "little" ideas have turned out to be more like a super-laserbeam, Hops. It's started something HUGE; so huge that I'm debating revisiting my T after New Year's. I'll decide later; things are getting processed so quickly right now - new connections, new perspectives on old "realizations", and one big piece of the puzzle that we left out during my last round of therapy. I might actually break through "to the other side" before I can get anything scheduled... too soon to tell.
I can't remember what prompted me to search for info on the derealization and depersonalization types of dissociation, now. Something about smoking...
There are differences between these 2 types of dissociation: as I understand it, derealization is the experience that the world around one, as experienced, isn't real. And depersonalization is when one's experience of oneself is that "I" am not real. As with all these things, there are degrees, a continuum. All the way from a one-time experience to a full-fledged disorder.
Today, I know for sure, that I've experienced both of these. And I know my anxiety is intrinsically related to these experiences. As my home life and parents' marriage disintegrated around me... my anxiety increased and I did experience what - at the time - I could only define as "surreal"; twilight zone type experience of "reality. But it was only after my mother refused to believe me about the rape and completely denied my physical/emotional injuries due to the rape - the gaslighting and what I experienced as complete invalidation of the reality of my SELF; what I KNEW happened... it was only then, that I started feeling like I wasn't real. I felt invisible...
The less important I felt to my parents, the less I mattered, the more I felt I wasn't real. And yet, the acute experience of this only lasted until I put "Twiggy" and her feelings away into the chinese box. To this day, I'm observing I experience this depersonalization... but it's much less severe and much more subtle.
And I wonder if I was smoking to feel real, to be in control over that state? Like pinching oneself, to see if I'm awake or dreaming...
more later - duty calls.
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That makes so much sense to me, Amber.
You are thinking so productively.
Hope you like yourself a LOT. I like you a lot.
I just finished Abandoned, by Anya Peters.
It's a memoir, searing story of child abuse and survival...by the woman who wrote the blog Wandering Scribe.
Made me think of you, and GS, and so many others here.
I do recommend it.
love love love,
Hops
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Wish I had time to read, Hops... I'll file that away in my mental "to do" - Wandering Scribe...
I spoke too soon about getting back on the board from work. Still sorting out the tech issues... and I'm going to try something else. I'm logged in on my old dial-up machine... and I'm going to try logging out from here... see what else opens up.
When I said that you might've opened up something that'll send me back to my T - that's a GOOD thing. It's for some expert answers to questions I have... and that professional "reassurance" that I'm on the right trail. The dissociative part of Twiggy's experience is something that's accompanied by a lot of fear of "going crazy". And I think that is woven - together with the smoking - into my "whole cloth" of myself. It's not impenetrable, or so tangled that it can't be rewoven. In fact, it's much, much, much clearer than before.
When I get some time I want to search for studies on dissociation and the effects of nicotine. I'm pretty sure that smoking helped me "manage" the most severe stages of this, that I experienced due to all the trauma of that one isolated, time period. It became a "boundary" between me and "insanity" (my parents) that was outside of me, too. But just like my level of anxiety was too high for my current life and experiences... this solution isn't appropriate any longer, either. I only experienced an acute level of dissociation as a result of the trauma and how that trauma was handled by my mom. The rest of the time, my experiences were within the normal range - at least, normal for artist-types! LOL!!
I don't need my talisman... my old coping solution... now. And it is "going away"... not completely yet... but noticeably going away as I spend more time doing other things that I want to do. And the more I find out that it's more than just "ok" to do those things - the less I smoke again. New spiral, I guess.
Gots little time right now, coz I'm neck-deep in tech projects at school this week. Christmas this year, is the bare minimum and if I take any time off, it's going to be to sleep. Hubby's got a cold and I'm taking Zicam, hoping I don't get it before next week. And I talk to my probate "team" on Friday... and I sure hope they have some good news. I'm more than ready to give up this kind of work schedule.
Back as soon as I can.
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Hi Amber,
http://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/pubs/books/nicotine/3-psychol.htm (http://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/pubs/books/nicotine/3-psychol.htm)
xo
Hops
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I have been away for a while and have just read your first post of this tread only. It is so thought provoking as are all of your threads PR. I am not going to take the time to delve deeply at this time though what you are writing about is critical for me at this stage in my own life and I am simply posting to express my appreciation for your work and your sharing.
As an aside - I have made good progress but today am sliding back a little and yet as i read your post I felt a regeneration to push forward. At long last, my entire upstairs is in great shape. It is orderly and comfortable and I am amazingly thankful. Now I must continue to push forward in the downstairs.
But I cannot log out without saying how thankful I am about the changes in your life that your father's estate willl provide for you. I am so profoundly thankful to read about the effect it has on your attitude about your work and the release/relief it provides from your less than stellar "boss". That freedom utopianly should be all of ours but because it is not I am joyous that it is at least yours for now. How grand that you are able to sit back and perform your work w/o the enormous frustration of being forestalled by a superior who does not have the vision or the will to do the best thing.
Way to go. How I wish great joy and success to you in the coming days, months and years. Your friend - GS
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Thanks GS...
Right now the estate stuff is still "virtual" for me. I've been hand to mouth so much, so long... that until I see a bank balance, it ain't real. Not yet. Too afraid of "jinxing" it, by assuming too much. Still waiting for the other shoe to drop and have it all disappear. SIGH.
Hope you get a chance to join in the thread soon... I've got more to post, and no time yet today. Been working in what seemed like isolation - and not happy isolation - due to the problems getting to the board. But, the gist of what I'm working on is very much clearer - and the worst of the revisiting now seems past. I think I "get it" now.
Hops' two "little" ideas connected with some post-it note tucked away in my brain and blew apart the resistance that's been holding me on that damned ledge, wishing to fly. I'll need some time to put my thoughts in order about it. I know it won't apply to everyone. Not everyone has gone through that level of dissociation. Like anything we've got in common, I think that there is a range or continuum to the experience and that everyone "tunes out" or spaces out, a bit. It's the same thing, only the degree varies.
It's interesting how it fits with my story.
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Dear PR,
I will apologize up front, because this post is not a direct response to your posts or your thread but comes out of a strange place within my heart that is longing for connection and comfort. IOW, it is about me rather than an empathetic reply to you. But the three aspects mentioned in your initial post (competence, autonomy, and relatedness) have been in the forefront of my being the past several days.
The concepts are not new nor news to me but the profundity and power of them is indescribable. Competence and autonomy that are so lacking in my life, present and past, all go to relatedness. The rage that I feel and have always felt has EVERYTHING to do with relatedness or lack thereof.
In recent months I have had moments or windows into a sense of competence AND autonomy. Within my philosophical framework a tiny moment can be nurtured and grown into a larger and larger presence and that of course is my goal. BUT I also have a tendancy to slip back into that wretchedness that has been my life and it has EVERYTHING to do with relatedness.
I could (and should for my healing) write pages and pages on this issue of relatedness but in order to get done the things that loom before me this morning I simply have come here to express my utter frustration and pain that comes from the utter LACK of relatedness in my life.
I have all kinds of techniques that I have developed to switch the unhealthy patterns of thought into healing patterns but for now the first step I long for is simply acknowleding the utter pain and destructive force and experience of being and feeling "unrelated". Of course I come here, to this board, but more particularly to your thread because I have a deep sense of being connected here, within your words and your expressions. I feel connected, related, here. So I thank you for this place of comfort and for the dialogues that you have offered up here. I have needed them and been nurtured by them as I do again today. Thank you.
Now I can go on and claim some small bit of competence and autonomy b/c I have found some small sense of relatedness here.
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GS - I really understand what you've expressed. Each one of the 3 nutrients: competence, autonomy, and connectedness rely on and support the others. Like a 3-legged stool, if any one of the legs is missing or weak - the stool isn't functional anymore. It tilts, wants to collapse.
I haven't been able to find a linear dependency in these 3 though. In other words, connectedness isn't proportionately affected by just competence or autonomy, in some sort of recipe or equation. Rather, I'm seeing that all three are necessary simultaneously and that perhaps the TYPE of competence, autonomy & connectedness is more important than the amount. It's clear to me, that for connectedness to occur - all involved need a level of autonomy (boundary of "me" - "you")... and some competence at expressing oneself. It seems a paradox - but isn't - that in order to feel connected, one must first be clear on the separateness of autonomy. How can I be connecting with you, if I don't accept... don't acknowledge... that we are two people completely independent of each other? That we have our own thoughts, feelings, lives, looks?
That seems to be a prerequisite to me, to being able to say - I understand what you've expressed here. But it hasn't always been that easy for me. The weak leg on my stool, was not allowing myself connectedness... because I didn't have a sense of either my own autonomous boundaries... or through my very negative attitude about my competence. Seems like a closed loop system, doesn't it? With lonliness & isolation reinforcing my negative (and incorrect) beliefs about my own abilities and worthiness of a relationship with anyone... so I'd do just about anything - including sacrificing my basic boundary of self-determination - for that feeling of connectedness. In a way, it was cognitive dissonance that helped me glue those 3 legs back on the stool in the proper orientation.
Had to go look it up, again: cognitive dissonance (wikipedia's version) is an uncomfortable feeling caused by holding 2 contradictory ideas simultaneously - including attitudes, beliefs and awareness of one own's behavior. (emphasis, mine)
Cognitive dissonance is at play, when one is being gaslighted. I knew what had happened to me, despite all the various ways my mom lied about it, covered it up, made excuses to doctors for my psychosomatic symptoms. I knew it wasn't a good thing to simply "forget" what had happened; I didn't want to; I fought it tooth and nail until finally I gave in so completely to my mother's unrelenting denial - that unwittingly I gave up too much of my boundary of my SELF, for the relief of connectedness. The relief was real, as was the struggle. Even during the long fog of dissociation, I was fighting for the right to my self - my memories, my feelings, my thoughts (what I call the chronology of the trauma) and maybe more importantly, the right of deserving connection at the same time, as being autonomous. With my mother - it was either/or. If you insisted on being independent, you didn't deserve to feel connected.
She controlled me through denying me my autonomy - not physical freedom. No, I could come/go as I pleased - just leave me a note saying where you are and when you'll be home. At 14. She controlled me through denying me the right of connectedness (just leave me alone...), and competence (can't you do the 1500 things I expect you do; can't you be a parent -of my mom- at 14?? Even though I denied you that right, after the trauma??) and autonomy (you won't remember it right...).
Ah, I love the smell of abuse, in the morning. Damn it.
Been thinking a lot about attachment, lately... usually, we think of all the deficits we have because of a lack of warm, nurturing, healthy attachments (connectedness). For me, it wasn't so much the deficits that were the issue (I found enough to sustain me elsewhere; other people) ... as it was, the NEGATIVE attachment that got in the way. I expected - had learned - that relationships meant giving up my own sense of self; of being everything to/for the other person. I suffered an injury to my self, as a consequence of participating in that kind of negative attachment. Love hurts, in other words. Couldn't be anything BUT that, in a relationship with my mother. The validation through invalidation effect.
So like any sane person, I avoided connectedness... even in my closest relationships. Warily afraid that "it" would happen again... and contributing to the fulfillment of the fear... because I could only see the negative in things and myself. Those were the rules in the negative attachment world. Every ray of sunshine had an evil, black, rotten core that "would gitcha, iffen ya didn't watch out".
And it was proved true, so many times... repeatedly... like chinese water torture.
GS - I'm hungry for news of how you're doing and what you're thinking about these days. Even little mundane daily things. I was so happy to hear you've conquered your upstairs! The technical glitches that have made access to the board more logistically difficult for me, remind me that my connections to you are important to me, also. So feel free to expound on what you're thinking about, regards relatedness. I need to see this from someone else's eyes, experience, and words. Things aren't always so clear, when observing and thinking about oneself, in "splendid" <and that's sarcastic> isolation.
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Quick update....
it's a new year... I'm close to realizing the changes in my life that will drastically alter my circumstances. A few weeks, a month or so... I don't know the exact timetable yet. I've been working pretty consistently in the time I haven't been able to post easily... trying to "finish up" a lot of loose ends and let many, many things GO. I find I'm going to need some reassurance, feedback, and pointing in the right direction... validation... so I'm off to my T again soon, for this. I'm STILL stuck on that cliff trying to take the first step... to let go of my perch, let go of my fears that plant my feet ankle deep in the soil, and really BELIEVE that I can soar. That there aren't any rules, any judgements, any benchmarks that I have to meet - only my own choices of goals and aspirations.
One thing that I've begun to let go of... is the offended, horrified realization... that my mother is responsible and to blame, both for the circumstances that led to my trauma and also the treatment of me, afterward. I'm letting go the expectation that someday she'll explain all. After all, she still doesn't realize what is wrong with it and truthfully, I don't think she's capable of seeing the harm that was done to me. She "doesn't remember" what she's denied for so long anyway... and still denies that I would be able to know, myself. The more I owned that harm, accepted it and set out to heal it... the less important placing blame for it is.
There's a reason the law includes the category "guilty by reason of insanity". When the proof of a crime exists, yet the individual accused has no awareness that such an act is wrong - or that they have impacted another person physically, emotionally, psychically - they simply can't be held responsible. They are not themselves responsible for their own thoughts, emotions or actions the way "normal people" are. We call those people mentally ill and diagnose them with specific flavors of it. My mother falls into that category, to her own degree.
It's useless for me to hold anger about what happened. Anger that wants to hold her accountable; I'm accepting that she's simply not capable of being accountable. It's useless for me to continue grieving the "might have beens" - there really is only what was. And what was, isn't completely devoid of useful, helpful, skills or coping mechanisms...
... I think I turned out OK (a little woody allen neurotic, maybe), overcame a lot, learned what I should've learned at home from other sources and I don't think I ever did to anyone else what was done to me. Still plenty of things to work through, to think & ponder about... but they're much more universal & general and much less specific to my hitherto "mysterious past" which exerted so much control over me, through self-sabotage. Yes, I'm still smoking. But it's not "with a vengeance" anymore... it's not an irrepressible or uncontrollable addiction anymore. And it's NOT going with me into my "new" reality.
It just feels like there is one emotional turd that I'm still dancing around and refuse to see (or smell).
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Amber:
A very good friend once told me that forgiving his father was something he did......
for himself......
not his father.
Accepting that his father did the best he could....
that everyone is doing the best they can.....
helped him release expectations and.....
in return......
they released him, right back.
Your journey lays out a personal diagram of movement through this process.
My friend shared only his epiphany.... not the journey.
Thank you, again.
It's also interesting to note that he actually changed types on the Meyers Brigg scale....... something his T had never seen before.
Lighter
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It has taken me a long time to write, in fact a long time to read. It is an odd quirk of mine that started as long ago as I can remember. It goes to the core of the dysfunctional behavior that grew up around that "elephant in the Living Room" wound. When something has value to me it becomes more difficult to approach or connect with.
Judging by this, I haven't progressed far in the recent months but not so. In spite of this long term issue I have made great progress and continue to do so.
I have time and concentration for two points right now. The first is in response to your next to last post and the second is a snippet about where I am at the beginning of 2009.
This issue of Competence, Autonomy, and Connectedness is profound and I want to spend more time with it. For now I will stick to what you wrote concerning the relationshp between Connectedness and Autonomy.
You wrote, "I gave up too much of my boundary of my SELF, for the relief of connectedness.” OMG, that is so painful to me because it is so true in so much of my life!!! I continue to do that but NOw I recognize it and can begin to do something about it. I believe that once we experience such a cruel demand by a parent that our brain pattern is formed. (The theory of neuroplasticity allows that all such patterns can be altered.) I took that brain pattern out into my life, into the world and repeated it with every relationship. The ones that stuck were ones that had similar patterning. I am convinced that is the explanation for why we find such unfortunate relational patterns repeating themselves across our lives inspite of our determination to alter them.
You also wrote, "the right of deserving connection at the same time, as being autonomous. With my mother - it was either/or. If you insisted on being independent, you didn't deserve to feel connected."
I continue to unstick myself from this dissonnant demand by my mother. The more that I experience this dissonance today and can call it by name and identify the process the more capable I am of undoing the damage and undoing my own brain patterns, cutting myself free much the way a surgeon cuts away a tumor fed by significant minute blood vessels - i.e. carefully, articulately, and precisely.
There are so many examples in recent days it is actually difficult to pick just one but I'll use one that happened this morning. I was at my mother's house. (Reminder: she lies pathologically about significant and insignificant; she passive-aggressively will cross the room to clean or point out MY "mess" even while stepping over her own to do so; she will do anything to undermine and sabotage all the while lieing to me and to herself that she is doing so.) I was in her basement where I am setting up a small business, and was vacuuming the relatively new carpetting. In my mind, I could imagine the criticism she was spewing about me upstairs - and I was forced to recall how powerful this habit of hers and my father's (which spread to my brothers) crushed me and became my own voice, my own mental pattern until the anxiety from it completely and solidly paralyzed me as surely as fisticuffs and leg irons.
I have FINALLY developed an image of a kind being who talks me through this and who rewrites or overwrites this damaging, controlling voice so that now with conscious, constant work I am overcoming at long, long last the fear and self-limiting self-hatred that has ruled my being my entire life up until now.
I still have a long way to go!!! But now it does not take HOURS to be able to get a action completed. There is resistance but I can definitely overcome it. This is a huge relief.
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Lighter:
hmmm..... forgiveness.... I didn't really consider this an aspect of self-determination. Thanks for pointing it out, I think you're right that it is part of the process. There's somethiing like a searchlight kind of attention I've noticed - and the searchlight has blinders so that you can't see anything not in the beam. No peripheral vision. As long as resentment and anger are nourished by energy & attention, one simply can't see the other things one is missing, outside of the blinders. And then, of course, if what one needs for self-determination is unknown; unseen; one doesn't pursue that... so yeah; forgiveness opens one up to those previously unknown aspects of reality and self. Very good point indeed!
GS:
You really sound good. Does me good to hear this new clarity and self-determination in your "voice"! I'm glad you found the 3 Nutrients for Self-Motivation helpful. I've found this way of describing, explaining why we so often get "stuck" to be very, very, very helpful. Oddly, I seem to be going back into heavy emotional stuff again... but that just may be my circumstances. Stress at work - for all my colleagues - is crazy-high, right now with an unrealistic number of projects and deadlines. And I feel very much impatiently in limbo, during the probate process which - I hope - makes it possible for me to walk away from this job.
I'm looking at whether this increased emotional sensitivity is actually part of "letting go"... getting free of the crap that's controlled me through my emotions. I find I have to tell myself that there are no good/bad emotions a lot... that judging the emotion and myself for feeling them, is completely unnecessary and complicates direct experience. It's the kind of stuff you learn to do, when you are emotionally abused, I guess. It's a protective technique... like wearing a veil to hide one's expression. And now, the weight of the veil is smothering me... I want to shrug it off, ya know?
It's like grieving my abused past/self/life... and finally getting to peace through feeling those emotions and then letting them go, like dried rose petals that turn to dust and blow away. No longer a part of me... but not forgotten. I know now, that those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it, like I did.
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So good to hear you PR. The metaphor of the rose petal is poetic. I continue to be thankful for this place in that it is empowering for me to know that I am NOT alone in this nightmare. Even though my brothers suffered a similar childhood they have chosen not to see it through the N perspective. Actually, through this process I have learned that my brothers experience was somewhat different from mine. I have come to recognize and take in that my experience was quite different because of the simple fact that I am a female and thereby was and am treated significantly differently. My mother's personal self-hatred fueled in part by her powerlessness, impotence continues to be venomously projected onto me.
The weather here is dark, gloomy and rainy for the umpteenth day. Depression has set in and has seeped into my soul. I must push forward using my mind to persevere. Now I know how I got here and it was not my fault. That determination is powerful to me but now I must push myself forward and change, thought by thought to pull myself out. Now I can do that - knowing how I got here and knowing that there is real power in thoughts, that thoughts are real and can pull me out of the miasma and dispair.
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Remember the rituals of self care, GS....
hope you feel better soon.
Lighter
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Thank you Lighter.
Competence, Autonomy and Connectedness
My deepest pain came from the contempt and condemnation which my parents projected onto me from my earliest days. By the time I was born there were no hopes of connectedness for me because my mother would reject me from day one out of her own suppressed fear of rejection and need for connnectedness from my father (and probably from her own parents.)
Yesterday on Tru TV I reheard the story of a young Palestinian American whose own parents murdered her and then claimed self-defense. Ironically, the entire plotting and execution of her death was recorded by the FBI as her father was under surveilance for terrorist activity. In those tapes of her murder, the 18 year old pleads to her mother to save her but he mother is heard screaming back, "Die you B****!" Why would a mother turn so horridly from her only child? It must be some sick and twisted psycho need for self-preservation.
For me, there is no autonomy nor competence without that connectedness. Yet I have replayed this lacking over and over throughout my life. Those neural paths of seeking connection but bumping up against condemnation and rejection were grooved early on. It is now, far into my life that I am finding a way to re-write these destructive patterns.
There is a bizarre complication because of the way these three are joined. They seem to become a closed system. So if once that lack of connectedness exists from birth how can one enter the trifold competencies which underlie the very basis of a good, fulfilling life?
I have been struggling with sleep patterns for some time now,finding it very difficult to get in bed to go to sleep and consequently finding it very difficult to rise. So on waking today I began working the EFT on my profound fears and overtaxed sinuses and felt the tangled mess of condemnation and rejection begin to loosen. Memory after memory began to unravel. The pain of them and the indescribable anxiety of having no where to turn, no one to go to help for, the clear sense that any need I had would be met with ridicule and belittlement by my parents.
As a child I had no way to interpret these experiences. As an adult, I recognize that both my mother and my father experienced their own self-hatred and self-condemnation and their incompetencies to help and nurture me exacerbated the pain that felt which was then expressed by projecting that condemnation and ridicule onto me. As this pattern was repeated over and over and over again - age after age - a neural loop was created that subverted the opportunities of working through solution.
Solution was never permitted in my family. Solution must have been threatening to them. I see and experience this everyday with my mother. She rails at and subverts solution to her problems and needs. Not only at her own working out solution but when anyone else tries to implement a solution for her. It is utterly self-destructive but she is not going to go out without taking others along with her.
So back to my own healing. I am using the EFT to get at so much of this jumbled emotional/psychological mess. I have made progress over the past 9 months but there is a recidivism due to the lifelong neural patterns. The EFT and thought processes described by Schwartz's four steps are helping me to change thepatterns and to break the self-destructive loops.
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(((GS)))
::wishing strength and intestinal fortitude (to hang on to every hardwon lesson you learn)::
Lighter
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OH yeah.
my experience was quite different because of the simple fact that I am a female and thereby was and am treated significantly differently (http://my experience was quite different because of the simple fact that I am a female and thereby was and am treated significantly differently)
One day you will not be nosing around the ashes of your family's bonfires for meaning any more. It's good and right and powerful that you're sorting it out.
And it's THRILLING to hear your increasing moments of claiming.
Claiming.
You are prospecting your own life, which can be a smaller flame. But it is beautiful.
Totally inarticulate with a cold...but thinking of you with such respect, GS...you keep on keeping on!
love,
Hops
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LOL - Yes nosing around in those ashes - a waste of time - but so compelling.
It must be an addiction because I certainly know better.
Sorry you have a cold. Here is a wonderful product. When my ship comes in I will buy a case and send off bottles to friends who succomb to those terrible days.
http://coldcure.com/html/bestzinclozenges.html
(I've tried other items recommended by George Eby to great success.)
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GS, I propose a new name for you: "thinks long, deeply and clearly". Amazing things you're seeing and sharing!
Actually, through this process I have learned that my brothers experience was somewhat different from mine. I have come to recognize and take in that my experience was quite different because of the simple fact that I am a female and thereby was and am treated significantly differently. My mother's personal self-hatred fueled in part by her powerlessness, impotence continues to be venomously projected onto me.
Each of us experiences things in life differently; we have our own realities - our bubbles of experience - what TT was calling "context" within our FOO. I think you've discovered the key to your context, understanding now what was projected onto you. I relate to this, with the exception that I think I was nutsy enough to care so much... about relieving my mom's self-hatred, that I unconsciously took it on, voluntarily. I had needs she wouldn't address - or didn't know how - and I tried to show her by example, by becoming what she was not. That early attachment (got to find Carolyn's thread about this!!) between mother & child - or the lack thereof - and it's affect on us, can be overcome.
So if once that lack of connectedness exists from birth how can one enter the trifold competencies which underlie the very basis of a good, fulfilling life?
By working on the other 2 "legs of the stool" - competence and autonomy - you can get to connectedness, I think. In my way of thinking, there can't BE any connectedness, if there isn't autonomy - independence and boundaries of spirit/self - because connectedness requires two separate beings. Without autonomy, what seems like connectedness is dependence, I think. Maybe I don't have that really clear yet... maybe it's not dependence... something else...
Remember: for oneself, it's important to define what competence, autonomy, and connectedness are. I don't think there's a universal ideal or standard. I'm always going to be starely blankly at algebraic equations... and not have the first idea how to solve them! That doesn't mean I'm incompetent. My other math skills are just fine. For me, it doesn't matter if I'm good in algebra - I don't value that, or need to master that.
For autonomy, my definition has been to maintain and defend my boundaries. I wasn't exactly sure what my boundaries are, but I have been finding out! :D
Connectedness is fuzzier... not so clear for me. With two, autonomous beings connectedness could be defined as being in the same place at the same time (did you see that?!), to participating in the same activity; to sharing feelings, observations, ideas; to caring for each other... which at the extreme of connectedness, should still allow autonomy.
<Self-criticism: God! this sounds so overly clinical and scientific to me!!!!! The "vulcan/star trek" analysis... not at all the emotional reality of interest in another, like/dislike, love.>
To borrow & apply Hops' words ("A hug is a boundary"), connectedness can be defined as a hug. One reaching out across the boundary of me/you to another. A hug is connectedness and a boundary at the same time... because with a hug there are two on one side of the boundary, momentarily. I think. Right now, I'm not sure I know what I'm talking about. At all. Feel free to walk right past these ideas!
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As a child, I wanted to belong to my family. I am thrust back into the age of 6 or 7 at breakfast time. I longed to go down to the breakfast table and "belong" but the breakfast table was a series of disciplines and punishments. That is where (in part) connectedness and self-hatred were fused. To be connected was to be WRONG and PUNISHED.
I would come down to the table where my mother was serving the breakfast she had cooked. My mother would criticize something about my appearance - my dress, my hair, something. Then I would sit down to my seat beside my mother and have before me some form of eggs (which I dislike to this day) and be forced to eat it. I figured out a plan that I would manage to eat all but one large bite (actually gagging the whole way) and then ask to be excused, cram the egg in my mouth and walk, unsuspectingly to the bathroom where I could spit it out and flush the evidence away. If breakfast was cereal instead of egg then my father would invoke his rules - only as much milk until the cereal began to rise (not much), only a level tsp of sugar (before all the pre-sugared cereals) and the same would be true if we had grapefruit - the amount of sugar would be limited, meted out, regulated, controlled. Each movement, each bite would be scrutinized. No options except to eat all. I ate all. It was worth it to CONNECT.
I see now that I have sacrificed autonomy and competence in order to connect - from the earliest of ages. The power, the draw of Connectedness is the siren call that will not be denied. I wonder what life would have been like if my siren call had been autonomy OR competence. But as I write I am getting a glimmer of what you may have been saying. It is as if I could switch away from the destructive connectedness to FOO and all the false, destructive baggage and actually select competence or autonomy or maybe both and that connectedness will follow. It is as if I have had the whole thing backwards - not in the natural order. In the natural order connectedness is always first but in the wounded N FOO world connectedness is not primary it is destructive. In the healing order I must go after competence or autonomy first and the connectedness will come as a result of that.
My entire life I have pursued the connectedness but for me connectedness was intertwined with self-destructive aspects - self-hatred, self-denial - all these sordid things pickedup from my childhood association with that craving to be connected to FOO. So in a terrible way, seeking connectedness has always been tied to self-denial and self-destruction as though craving food when all food were poison. I suspect I have only gone after connections that were poison.
There is so much more to process, so much more to gleen from this pursuit but for now I am going to let it rest. I don't know yet what it would mean to pursue autonomy nor competence. I'm not sure which one to focus on though I think competence will bring me what I need quicker.
Oh the damage that has been caused by seeking connectedness - the sorrow of a lifetime of trying to connect, of the desparation to connect - the images and memories are filling my thoughts one after another. This part - the damage of the interlocked connectedness and condemnation - is so huge and has controlled my life for so long and has wreaked such havoc and brought such indescribable sorrow, sorrow AND shame. I could have NO competence under that "regieme" because I had no idea who "I" was. Of course there could be no autonomy without an "I" either.
So much to process and understand.
If I focus on competence and consciously recognize that the longing for connectedness stands in my way then I can use the techniques I have to intercede on my behalf, reminding me that connectedness has self-destructive barnacles attached to it for me and that I can seek competence for myself, not in order to please someone in order to get connected to FOO. This is a whole new, earth shattering approach. I'm in a place of shock at having this awakening.The ramifications of this insight can be enormous or me, life altering. I must keep my focus on this - only hope I can.
I keep thinking, "I must have a plan." But I don't even know where to begin - my house, my work, reconstruction (of the literal and figurative mess from the past 7 years.) Perhaps work as I need the income. Though House would be easier but house needs money and work would bring money. Work is the scariest and so probably the most important.
For YEARS I have "vegged", sat motionless, in part, as a way to minimize the pain. Each attempt to get out of my mess, to move forward has been like stepping on the invisible fense - an electical shock - so I vegged. Periodically I would get up to try to accomplish something - stick my neck out and get started and get zapped again and then the whole thing would start again - again I am a failure b/c I started something else and didn't complete it (couldn't - kept getting zapped) and on and on and piled on top of that is the criticism and condemnation.
The thing that focusing on competence would do is circumvent that whole, debilitating realm of criticism and condemnation. Competence and autonomy have nothing to do with being judged - that comes only from the desire for connectedness. Without the drive for (warped) connectedness the criticism and condemnation will have insignificant power. It is the criticism and condemnation which is internalized that has truly sidelined and paralyzed me.
I must develop a plan to switch that focus and decide what that means for me.
I am sorry that this is so long and rambling but I began writing one thing and suddenly everything began to work itself out as I wrote. Time will tell me what truly has happened here. But I am in some ways in the same situation - stuck until I can develop a plan - I must have a plan. I'm going to keep these words in my mind all day and see what works its way out. Thanks for helping me here. I do know that I will never have to slip back into that horror of a life that has, up until recently, been mine.
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I can seek competence for myself, not in order to please someone in order to get connected to FOO.
GS, I believe the plan will show itself to you, piece by piece.
I think it will RESULT from the focus and the thoughts you are intentionally thinking.
Like the dazzling realization above.
The thing to remember is, there could be several, or even more, different ways to approach:
House
Work
etc.
What you are starting to think now, the direction you are shoving your prow around to, is going to help you become PLEASED about a plan. Not an unrealistic perfectionistic overwhelming Plan. Just YOUR plan.
Even your plan will become 1 Square Foot. (Except, more likely, half-dozen ACHIEVABLE small steps on a list. You can have the Big Goal in mind, letting it form itself as you go, but on a weekly basis you probably only need a half-dozen small steps.)
I am so excited for you.
Curse those breakfast buzzards, but you are leaving them behind.
love,
Hops
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You just don't know how much your 1 square foot is finally working for me. I use it once or twice a week. It took 2 years to kick in but now it does. I'll stand before something that needs to be done, feel overwhelmed and then just ask one or two small steps. Sometimes that is just enough to kick start things and sometimes that is enough to do 3 or 4 times to finish. It is amazing.
I've modified that "one square foot" concept and found more success. If there is something that needs to be done but another chore must be accomplished before the present one can be even started then rather than fall prey to the overwhelming sense and give in to shut down I use a version of "one square foot" which I call "just get started". With "Just get started" all I have to do is do ONE thing to start the process - not finish it, just start it. That takes sufficient pressure off to allow me to avoid Shut Down. Often I am able to actually finish the first task so that I can do the second task later. But just starting keeps me out of Shut Down and that is a big help.
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PR - I have been thinking about this thread a great deal over the weekend. The depth of it has truly shaken my whole being. I am finding that by focusing on "competence" I am able, for the first time, to move out of the "connectedness" problem that actually has held me prisoner my entire life. Not because "connectedness" is not critical but because "connectedness" was from earliest infancy, conflated with self-denial and self-destruction.
It looks to me as though, by focusing on "competency" that I will free myself from much of the fear and entanglement that was created by the wrong understanding of "connectedness" and will untangle that allowing me to function with autonomy and drawing other good and competent people to me in a healthy "connectedness".
I will continue to sort out the damage and confusion long established by the twisted patterns of what it meant to be connected. I have much work to do in order to accomplish that. But in the meanwhile I will keep my focus on "competence" and am enjoying the feelings of accomplishment of even the simplest actions of competency.
One of the great pains that I have experienced in my adult life and especially so in the years since my husband died is a powerlessness. By focusing on competence I see how I will be able to stand up to that powerlessness rather than give in. That powerlessness is very closely related to the ovewhelming sense of aloneness and utter lack of connectedness. In fact, in my dreams last night, in several different dreams I was with others in situations that were comfortable and going along well when suddenly there would be a turn and I was called out or away and given a chore that must be completed alone, a chore that could not be completed alone - a no win situation - where it was a lose-lose situation for me. Complete the chore or I would be isolated, yet I could not complete the chore BECAUSE I was isolated. That series of dreams comes from deep within my unconscious and is being brought to the surface to be addressed.
As I focus on competense and give myself credit for small successes I know it will grow and begin to transform this powerlessness into something utterly different. I have so much more work to do with this concept. Thank you PR.
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Here is an exerpt from a CNN article on entrepreneurs that illustrates the point I was making above: professor Kelly Shaver of the College of William & Mary, told Forbes magazine in 2002 that successful entrepreneurs "really don't care as much" about what other people think. "They're just happy to go ahead and do what they're doing."
The way I interpret it is that successful entrepreneurs are more focused on "competence" than on "connnectedness". Very interesting.
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Interesting that you chose competence, GS... rather than autonomy. These 3 things all being legs of the same stool, each one bears the same amount of weight and if one is wobbly or loose or broken... then the other two are more stressed, trying to perform their function - to hold up the stool. They over compensate, I think.
I don't think, because of this interwoven interdependence, that there's any one "right" starting place. Trust your intuition.
As for me, looks like my current round of T-work is going to begin with discussion of the book, "Stroke of Insight". My T brought it up, and of course I was familiar with excerpts from the thread Dr. G had started last year, about it. So back to Left & Right brain stuff, for a bit. I did bring up these 3 nutrients... and how valuable I found the concepts to be...
... the whole point of this theory, though, was addressing self-motivation. In your words, GS - that paralysis when faced with tasks. For me, the absence of enough desire and motivation to quit smoking. I had issues about competence & smoking - but I've been able to prove to myself that this was just fear; no truth to it. I can not smoke and be just fine for long periods of time. So... autonomy...? smoking to separate myself from my mother's projections about who I am.... maybe. Connectedness - my hubby and I connect first thing in the morning, coffee & smokes to hand... but it's been possible for me to prove to myself that I can connect to him just fine w/o smoking.
Connecting with myself is closer to the truth. The old 'validation through invalidation'... the 'comfort that kills' paradox again. And after reading the book, and seeing a bit more from Dr. Taylor's perspective about L/R brain experiences... I think I'm homing in on something else that needs to be addressed. Fear of dissociation. Nicotine enhances L-brain functionality and suppresses R-brain. And my survival - and eventual escape from my mom - depended on L-brain working to the best of it's ability (competence) all through high school and college. Interesting thing is... one of the tools recommended for getting through a NIC crave... is the puzzle game Bejeweled... and I've found it to be almost a trigger for a mild dissociation reaction in me... as if I'm training myself - through playing - to control dissociation; to balance L/R brain functionality ... allowing BOTH to co-exist... without judging.
It will be most interesting to hear my T's reasoning behind recommending the book to me. I found myself connecting to a LOT of the author's observations and seeing myself - my experience - through a different set of explanations.
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The BIG DUH:
my attachment with my mom was negative - when I expected her to fulfill my needs, I received negative feedback...
when she found out I was smoking - she never punished me for this directly - she only said: the longer you smoke, the harder it will be to quit (contrary to previous experience above... "good" mom allowing me to do what I fully knew was BAD for me???)
I transferred my attachment to smoking (self-soothing....) - at the same time - punishing myself for having "needs"; using it to CONNECT with other people; and giving myself both an escape from mom and a false boost to Lbrain - to be able to think my way out of the constant gaslighting; the cognitive dissonance I experienced by having to play along with my mother's delusional reality.
She told me so many times that I wouldn't be able to quit, that it became engraved on my Lbrain; it was HER belief that she programmed me with - which now uses a multiplicity of fearful consequences for quitting to keep me from starting. I am able to - have done so already - prove to Lbrain, that the bad things it predicts don't happen.
When was my mom ever RIGHT about anything in reference to me ANYWAY???
I am so ready to be done with this issue, already.
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It's been facinating to watch you work through it, Amber.
An amazing journey.