Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board

Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: teartracks on March 04, 2009, 11:10:24 PM

Title: Important Attachments
Post by: teartracks on March 04, 2009, 11:10:24 PM: Hi everyone,

Hops asked Dr. G. the following question in her VERY DEAR Dr. Grossman thread.

What's your sense of what the board has been?

Ultimately, a place to open up the pain of one's life, esp. important attachments, and let the pain from those attachments heal in a new and different way. (Of course, the board did not always work this way for all people.) Also, a place to form new healthier attachments with people who understood.

I remember when I came to the board, I didn't have a clue why I had suddenly become engulfed in emotional pain that felt like it would kill me. My sister had said to me once a long time ago and before I crashed that in our FOO, we only had 'attachments'. She claimed only to love her husband and children. This was in response to an outreach from me to her, a request so to speak, for us to make the time and put forth the effort to get to know each other better and as adults. I took her response to mean that she had little interest in nurturing a relationship between us. We have been estranged for decades. At least I recognized that relationship was sorely missing in our family and I yearned for their love. So when she declared that outside her husband and children, she claimed attachments only, I was floored. I couldn't wrap my brain around what seemed like such a hopeless and coldhearted view of one's family/attachments. Now I understand so much more. These are a few disjointed thoughts back on that conversation and how I feel about it now.

That was a long time ago. Back then, she had an inkling of things not being just right in our FOO. I didn't. My awakening took place many years later. Here's what seems so odd to me now. My sister who is six years younger got a clue long before I did, yet she never seemed to move any farther in her understanding. It's kind of like a kindergartner 'graduating' and thinking that they have all the tools they need to navigate life. I base my belief that she has not moved into the recovery stage on how she is able to routinely to this day, disown her children and grandchildren on a whim, then warm up to them (if they whoop themselves into shape according to her standard).

I, much later, OTOH, found myself in a terrible fixer upper state. I crashed and burned. At this point it was inescapable that 'get it', and once I did, I gave all I understood about the problem, me and my attachments (though I didn't know to call them attachments), to all I could discover, understand and apply in the way of recovery and healing. I'm still discovering, getting more understanding, and applying. I think I'll be working on the fixer upper the rest of her life. My sister is no dummy and I have to believe she has done all she knows to do as well.

Because of my experience, I see others in a completely different light now. My FOO's (and yes, Izzy, the generations before ours probably) specialty was blaming and shaming. In earlier times, it seemed like the most normal thing in the world for me LOOK for things in others to blame and shame them for. They call it projection, don't they? :shock:

The thing I've come to see is that when a person comes from a wretched family system, the thing that might benefit them most is information. I had been completely steeped in a dysfunctional belief system. All my life my faults had been highlighted, so to me that was the behaviors les jours. Once I understood how broken my belief system was, I needed and wanted information fast, and lots of it. I wanted me fixed. Dr. G's essays were my hand up. Believe me, I'm not wanting to be dramatic, but had there not been information, educational tools available, I might not have survived the pain. By survival, I mean, I might have lost my ability to function in any meaningful fashion. OK, I might have gone completely around the bend. I was that broken...there, I said it!

It would be idle speculation to try to understand the difference in the ways my sister and I have gone about navigating our way through our family's dysfunctional maze. All I know is that there is a lonely hole in my heart that is shaped exactly like her and I wish she knew that I love her imperfectly, but with all my heart.

Another thing that struck me odd about what Dr. G said in the above quote is how infrequently we have talked about 'attachment' on the board. Or I should say, we've probably talked about it plenty, but just didn't use the word attachment.

tt
Title: Re: Important Attachments
Post by: lighter on March 04, 2009, 11:59:56 PM: "All I know is that there is a lonely hole in my heart that is shaped exactly like her and I wish she knew that I love her imperfectly, but with all my heart."

((tt))[/b]
Title: Re: Important Attachments
Post by: teartracks on March 05, 2009, 02:04:20 PM: Hi everyone,

Interested in learning more about attachment disorders?

There are quite a few, but here's one article and a site with lots of links.

http://www.helpguide.org/mental/parenting_bonding_reactive_attachment_disorder.htm

What is Attachment?

by Kathleen G. Moss, LCSW, ACSW

What is Attachment?

Attachment is a reciprocal process by which an emotional connection develops between an infant and his/her primary caregiver. It influences the child’s physical, neurological, cognitive, and psychological development. It becomes the basis for development of basic trust or mistrust, and shapes how the child will relate to the world, learn, and form relationships throughout life. Healthy attachment occurs when the infant experiences a primary caregiver as consistently providing emotional essentials such as touch, movement, eye contact and smiles, in addition to the basic necessities such as food, shelter, and clothing.

If this process is disrupted, the child may not develop the secure base necessary to support future healthy development. Factors which may impair healthy attachment include: multiple caregivers, invasive or painful medical procedures, sudden or traumatic separation from the mother, hospitalization at critical developmental periods, neglect, sexual or physical abuse, prenatal alcohol or drug exposure, and neurological problems.

Children with attachment disturbance often project an image of self-sufficiency and charm while masking inner feelings of insecurity and self hate. Infantile fear, hurt and anger are expressed in disturbing behaviors that serve to keep caregivers at a distance and perpetuate the child’s belief that s/he is unlovable. These children have difficulty giving and receiving affection on their parents’ terms, are overly demanding and clingy, and may annoy parents with endless chatter. They attempt to control by engaging adults in frequent power struggles and seeking attention in negative ways. Additional behaviors may include: poor eye contact, abnormal eating patterns, poor impulse control, poor conscience development, chronic, “crazy” lying, stealing, destructiveness to self, others, and property, cruelty to animals and preoccupation with fire, blood, and gore.

Such children often do not respond well to traditional parenting or therapy since both rely on the child’s ability to form relationships, and to internalize the parents and their values. Therapy and parenting that utilize the elements of basic attachment have been found to be more helpful. A more directive approach using nurturing touch, eye contact, and physical and emotional closeness can provide a corrective emotional experience and create a foundation for a healthier attachment between child and parent.

Common Causes of Attachment Problems (Highest risk if these occur in first two years of life.)

1. Sudden or traumatic separation from primary caretaker (through death,illness, hospitalization of caretaker, or removal of child)

2. Physical, emotional, or sexual abuse

3. Neglect (of physical or emotional needs)

4. Illness or pain which cannot be alleviated by caretaker

5. Frequent moves and/or placements

6. Inconsistent or inadequate care at home or in day care (care must include holding, talking, nurturing, as well as meeting basic physical needs)

7. Chronic depression of primary caretaker

8. Neurological problem in child which interferes with perception of or ability to receive nurturing (i.e. babies exposed to crack cocaine in utero)

Behaviors Associated with Problematic Attachment

A. Unable to engage in satisfying reciprocal relationship:

1. Superficially engaging, charming (not genuine)

2. Lack of eye contact

3. Indiscriminately affectionate with strangers

4. Lack of ability to give and receive affection on parents' terms (not cuddly)

5. Inappropriately demanding and clingy

6. Persistent nonsense questions and incessant chatter

7. Poor peer relationships

8. Low self esteem

9. Extreme control problems - may attempt to control overtly, or in sneaky ways

B. Poor cause and effect thinking:

1. Difficulty learning from mistakes

2. Learning problems - disabilities, delays

3. Poor impulse control

C. Emotional development disturbed: child shows traits of young child in "oral stage"

1. Abnormal speech patterns

2. Abnormal eating patterns

D. Infantile fear and rage. Poor conscience development.

1. Chronic "crazy" lying

2. Stealing

3. Destructive to self, others, property

4. Cruel to animals

5. Preoccupied with fire, blood, and gore

E. "Negative attachment cycle" in family

1. Child engages in negative behaviors which can't be ignored

2. Parent reacts with strong emotion, creating intense but unsatisfying connection

3. Both parent and child distance and connection is severed
Title: Re: Important Attachments
Post by: Izzy_*now* on March 05, 2009, 03:38:24 PM: Good post tt,
I can relate in my way.

First, I wonder if we often do not totally understand a situation, if the poster does not “use the proper word”…in this case ‘attachment‘.

My FOO has attachments, of different levels, merely from being in the same family. We had all the dysfunction in, say the first, 18 years, to bring all five into teen years.

I never felt a part of and knew something was wrong. No one else mentioned this, but then I never said it out loud, as I thought it was all me, the scapegoat from an early age, the only brown-haired one amongst the red.

I also felt when my 3 sisters married, they had moved on to their marriages and family for their lives and left the original FOO attachments for occasional visits. I knew nothing about my sisters (I have always thought of my brother as my favorite, as he was never knowingly cruel to me.)

These marriages became their “safety”, if you will, and no personal information was ever known except for when they had children…which meant they must each have had sex at least twice, as each sister has 2 children. That is part of marriage, sex.

None of this is new to anyone but I’m being repetitive for a reason.

Now I, on the other hand was not married and they knew I had sex because I had one child.

At one point in the teen years, Dad found the septic tank plugged with condoms. Mom told me and I said, “Well you know darned well it wasn’t me!” I never brought dates in after being kissed goodnight at the door. Neither did my eldest sister. So that leave the other two who both went steady and brought their dates into the kitchen, via the back door, the bathroom being off the kitchen, closed the two doors that connected with the rest of the house, and made toasted Western Sandwiches. The farm kitchen always had a couch in it. (Brother didn’t have to bring girl friends home to ‘neck‘. They went elsewhere.)

Yet those 2 sisters have professed to be virgins when married. Who is to know? Attached but never sharing.

The other day I received a Group photo of our high school students when I was 15 in Gr 12 and younger of these 2 sisters would have been in Grade 10. I was trying to put a name to the gang, and noted, for the first time that she had dated FIVE of the guys in the photo (The one who thought I was ‘hot’ was 13 in Gr. 9 and we never dated. The one who emailed me the photo after being out of touch for 55 years.) This photo is ‘telling me a story’ whether it is true or not.

Okay back to when married, I used to visit them and try to keep up an attachment, but was never successful. I am sensing now that their marriages is where they hid and kept all their secrets, never sharing as I thought sisters did.

I, however, was in the wide open without the protection of marriage, so was the scapegoat for ‘abusing sex while single”, therefore to be gossiped about and thought less of.

No, the only attachment is DNA.

Eldest sister had to live with a neighbor for her first 6 months, as Mom was sick
Mom had a helper when I was young.
I was only 18 months when next sister was born

I doubt, with farm chores etc. and 5 kids, that there was any time to positively attach, and I know that throughout it all there was always hard feelings, fighting, beatings, and no love.

At least on this board I have been able to tell everyone all of my problems and not be ridiculed for who/what I am! no one in foo wants to talk about it, or listen to it. Why? Because it brings out the very feelings I had or didn’t have? Were we more alike than I ever thought? Was I the only one to ‘wear my heart on my sleeve’? to show my ‘neediness’ within the family? to expect that there ought to be love and affection?

…only to withdraw as time went on because by 15 I never knew my foo!

.. and here! to feel a sense of abandonment that we will all be losing touch....my only group of people/freinds in my life.

Did this make any sense?

Izzy
Title: Re: Important Attachments
Post by: Izzy_*now* on March 05, 2009, 07:54:02 PM: I had a further thought, of interest to me anyway.

When he and I were on the phone, he was so complimentary about me, (had told my brother at the funeral I was 'hot',) told me I was pretty , had a nice butt and the boys teased him ........For real, I had a broken tooth, wore braces and no one back then ever said nice things to me.

Maybe we need someone who knew us 55 years ago to state his/her truth and run interference for the guk that becomes transplanted from foos.

I also mentioned how my younger sister's boyfriend was my best friend, how we talked and talked and had said I was the smartest one on the family. After they were married, he has seldom spoken to me, and one would never know we had been such good friends.

My phone buddy was flabberghasted, as he said our next door neighbours had said the very same thing... how friendly before and seldom seen afterward.

I didn't make it to their wedding. It was planned and over with quickly and I was 500 miles away, and only family so no neighbours.

HMMM. I wonder, since her husband came from a village with a bad reputation and the teachers disapproved

Later she would say to me, about having my baby, "We, as Christians, do not condone this behaviour...."

She's into Deepak Chopra now and her eldest daughter had 4 children before marrying the father.

Somehow I sense Ii ought to have been given an aplogy, or a "See? You were just a generation too early?"---notice of existence.
Title: Re: Important Attachments
Post by: lighter on March 06, 2009, 06:35:14 AM: You were just a generation too early, Izzy.

And..... you deserved more than one apology from the people in your past.

Esp your FOO.... probably do them more good than yiou, at this point.

I think you should keep in touch with that old school chum..... it is good to know someone you've known since childhood.

I just realized.... your childhood reminds me a lot of my paternal grandmother's.
Title: Re: Important Attachments
Post by: teartracks on March 06, 2009, 11:19:07 AM: Hi Iz,

We come from the same time. Your stories are way more interesting and textured than mine. I only had two sibs. I remember one sex story that didn't involve me, but there are only whispers and hints about it. I'll probably never know the real truth. And besides if the unclear whispers and hints I did heard are clear, there wasn't much to it, except the way it got blown out of proportion.

As far as the board goes, well, there is a lot more information online than ten years ago. Of course a person has to use discretion in using it. Sadly, when a person like I was searches, they could latch onto the wrong kind of guidance. The good news is that Dr. G's essays are still here, and I expect they will remain.

The whole subject of attachments makes me think that people get attached to things as well as people. You know their money, their political party, sex, drugs, partners, cars, material things. When it's all said and done, life calls for a lot of boundary setting with others and especially with our own weaknesses.

Just a few comments. I read your post and I relate to so much of it.

Love,

tt
Title: Re: Important Attachments
Post by: Izzy_*now* on March 06, 2009, 01:55:24 PM: hi Lighter

This arrived from him this morning, via e-mail , and a big bouquet of flowers.

There comes a point in your life when you realize:
Who matters,
Who never did,
Who won't anymore...
And who always will..
So, don't worry about people from your past,
there's a reason why they didn't make it to your future..

He's 13 in the picture. How sweet! He became a school teacher.

Izzy
Title: Re: Important Attachments
Post by: Hopalong on March 06, 2009, 11:22:54 PM: My gosh, Izz...what a sweet thing from that old friend!

Breaks my heart to think the board ... US ... your only present friends.

How about if you start trying to think of the board as an amazing CHAPTER in your life, in which you began the PRACTICE of revealing your real self, sharing your stories, and experimenting with trust? The thing is, people who got to know you here LIKE you

AND

the same thing would happen in 3-D life, I swear.

There MUST be some small group, in the city in which you live, where you could build friendships in the same painstaking way.

You just haven't met them yet.

What could it be?

ANYTHING.

A little choir.
A bridge club.
A volunteer group.
A church something.
A kids organization.
A school.

I keep thinking...Izzy can't give up, no matter what the Board does. CAN'T.

love to you and I am your friend...

Hops
Title: Re: Important Attachments
Post by: Izzy_*now* on March 07, 2009, 07:38:44 PM: Thanks Hops,

Yes, my 'little buddy' is special and I think I know why.

He was someone who liked me, never said a bad word about me, never ridiculed/laughed at me, never ALL of those 'nevers' that my family did...and he was only 13. He made me feel good about myself and 55 years later is saying the same things. He was/is one of a kind....to think that after 54 years (May/08) he attends a funeral of a mutual acquaintance, sees my brother and tells him he thought I would be there. He wanted to see me. Happily married for 47 years, 4 kids and 11 grandchildren, and some little part of him was set aside for me. He remembers how good I was in track and field, and is sorry that I was injured.

I don't think I know of anyone else from that 'era' who ever asks about me, remembers me, says anything nice about me. and after all I was but a naive, emotionally immature farm girl.

I asked my sister, younger, who emails about every 2 months, what Flo (an old classmate, gal-pal, but not best friend) died of. She responded today with 'just about everything". No details.

I am not stupid ! I saw her at the school reunion ('buddy' lived too far away to drive to, drink, and drive back) in 1990 and she had changed from being so very pretty, to badly wrinkled from smoking and quite overweight from drinking, and I knew this well before I left and moved here. When I heard of her death I felt I knew what brought it on, but was it a heart attack? or did her husband shoot he because she got fat?<kidding> My sister was so vague.

Yet I was talking with my 'buddy' and he was very sensitive and delicate to answer my questions and gave me more info than my sister did, and had the same compassion for Flo, as I did.

Nothing has changed with the family! Secrets! Why can my sister not spit it out?

Anyway, I am older. I cannot stand anymore and therefore have my doubts about using public washrooms (at home I return to the bed to pull myself together, still being in slacks and not dresses.)

I still have my 2 jobs, and they are done at home. I do my own timing for going out shopping, dentist, doctor, office wherever and all goes well as long as I time things, and I can still drink a lot of water, later, to help my dry skin from overtaking me and blowing me away. Okay so that means up in the night, but I'm not bothering anyone and I might do that 2-5 times and finally get up at 10, but I plan everything for the afternoon.

I doubt anyone could take this life, but me, and I am fine as long as I don't have to explain.

Now I explain here, because here are people who understand that I am different in more ways than one, and don't say, "Wouldn't you be better off dead?" or "Gad! I couldn't live with you!" so I don't tell my family anything anymore!

I never responded to Ken's so-called apology-not-an-apology and I feel free of another N. WOW That took a long time, being the relationship was mostly boss/employee.

I think that all children ought to be aware, at timely ages, of these awful things they could run into in life----I might have seen it from my famliy, from my daughter's husband (now ex), from my N, but not until Xmas/08 did I see it in 40 years of Ken.

I have been through the Volunteer thing, 4 organizations for disabilities, a teacher's assistant (primary grades) a tutor in spelling and math from ther TA, and finally basic 3R's for mentally challenged adults. I quit work in '72 and was ensconced in first Org'n in '74 (took a while for 4 of us to set it up) and my last with the mentally challenged ended when I came West.

Then I was in the computer business with the N, but also a volunteer in Basic computing for seniors.

I would never believe if anyone said I never gave back.

Re my N sister, B., next older above me, .... because I was President of a Group and Fundraiser for all the money we made for the Community and PUSH members? PUSH paid the 25% for assistive devices left over from the Ontario Gov't paying 75%.

I was so embarrassed when B. and G. moved to Peterborough, knew something of what I did, so their plan was to get G.'s hearing aids paid for. She was not very discreet about it. They joined PUSH and then their second meeting brought in a form to apply for the extra 25%. I could have died, but I wasn't on that committee, which might have approved it since I was President. To me they hadn't done enough to warrant this, so as Chair of the Accessibility Commitee, and needing Volunteer deliverers when the orders came in, I sent her all over Hell's half acre delivering books, then they dropped out! After that I NEVER wanted board position again!....

....and she is the Christian!

My 'buddy' mentioned her 'going at it' in his presence and he said to her, "B. Do you not realize that all these people around us are 'God'.?" apparently that shut up her preaching for the evening, anyway.

Well this turned into a Newsletter, but I am quite content with my reading, movies (free online), eating, drinking, smoking, shopping, that I stick in when I can when I am not working.

Love always
Izzy
Title: Re: Important Attachments
Post by: sKePTiKal on March 08, 2009, 12:01:41 PM: TT - I tried twice on Friday to post but technology was winning that day. And I so wanted to start discussing attachment with you...

Back a month or two, I started a thread on attachment - there is either a link or enough info to search for - a superb article on attachment and r-brain development... which affects children (like me) and then becomes part of how we relate to others throughout life. I've really been thinking on this a lot lately.

First - the word attachment - seems positive, to indicate like, trust, caring, affection, nurturing and support. I suppose it could also convey a sense of dependence on, able to rely on... someone or something else.

But, in psychology, it seems that the experience of "attachment issues" is the opposite of a positive connection - there's fear, avoidance, withdrawal or shutdown, self-sabotage -- even, according to this article I found, a predisposition to dissociation as the ultimate "self-protection". The ultimate "boundary", dissociation severs all engagement with whomever or whatever is causing the problem, in a last-ditch effort to save "I".

With mother-attachment issues (and I can only speak from my own experience): when my needs were met with denial of facts/reality, dismissal, and my emotional needs were characterized as "wrong" and when I was in desperate NEED of the stereotypical/archetypal mother - and the result of expressing those needs only elicited anger, condemnation, blame/shame and gaslighting...

... that triggered (I didn't know it then) an earlier experience of negative attachment. In that thread I mentioned - I remembered a bit of family mythology (and again, I'm the one being made fun of) when at 3, I preferred to dream about being adopted and rescued and taken away from my family... instead of getting ice cream, in the here and now. And it was THEN (when Twiggy was triggered), that I went through the period of dissociation that I have feared most of my life.

So, attachment... can also mean "stuck to", fastened to, connected.

In my touchup sessions recently with my T, she said something that didn't make sense until I started dropping it into the context of a negative attachment - she said: no one's perfect, in reference to my mom. And we weren't talking about letting go or forgiveness. In fact, the next thing she said was that I seemed to be looking for the "archetypal mother"...

A month later, I think I understand enough to be able to explain. I hope it helps everyone else dealing with this.

I was stuck (attached) dealing with my feelings and thoughts about my mother (and the radioactive waste in my self-image) because I kept trying to expect her, shame her into, and then blame her for NOT BEING... the stereotype/archetypcal "good mommy" I needed. The more she proved that she couldn't be that... the more desperately I kept trying to fit her into that mold... even while limiting my interactions with her, moving away, screening her calls and simply walling her out of my life. Anger, resentment, desperation... and self-sabotage kept mounting every time I did interact with her. I was mimicking - in my behavior with her - how I felt she treated me.

The reason it's miraculous that Twiggy's childhood friend has shown up now - is because it drives home the fact that Twiggy/I got what we needed elsewhere... friends, teachers, substitute moms. And that it was ENOUGH. It was only when losing those resources and being isolated with my mother... that I was no longer able to fend off or rise above the triggered reaction... except by engaging in the game she desired to play:

it was all my fault, I couldn't remember it "right", I needed to take of myself, my brother and her... and never, ever expect, much less ask for or demand what other children received freely from parents. Because that's not what I needed... I got "stuck"... attached... in a life-long struggle to make her what she could NOT BE.... she simply can't. My blindered focus was ALWAYS on how this was unfair to me - and ALWAYS on some mysterious need to PROVE that she was wrong, a bad mother.

And doing this - for myself - being attached like this - simply isn't fair to my mother. (not that she has an idea, anyway) It's as unfair as her expectation that I be the resident adult in the household and parent her, instead. In other words: nobody's perfect... and as long as I continued to NEED to prove how horrible a mother she was, as long I continued to focus on the negative form of attachment... I wasn't giving myself permission to be FREE and to form the other kinds of positive attachments...

including positive attachments with myself.
Title: Re: Important Attachments
Post by: teartracks on March 08, 2009, 12:57:07 PM: Hi PR,

I'm up to my eyeballs in 'gotta get this done' stuff today, but I wanted to acknowledge your post and say thank you for all the great information you've been posting lately. Also wanted to comment on this particular paragraph from your post.

Quote from: PhoenixRising on March 08, 2009, 12:01:41 PM
But, in psychology, it seems that the experience of "attachment issues" is the opposite of a positive connection - there's fear, avoidance, withdrawal or shutdown, self-sabotage -- even, according to this article I found, a predisposition to dissociation as the ultimate "self-protection". The ultimate "boundary", dissociation severs all engagement with whomever or whatever is causing the problem, in a last-ditch effort to save "I".

I noticed right away that Dr. G used the term, 'important attachments'. I don't think he meant it as a precise psychological term, but it is what jumped out at me and made me take another look at the dynamic between me and my FOO especially my mother. It feels kind of backwards that important attachments can be either negative or positive. The child in me, in that moment, wanted my important attachments to be all positive. I quickly realized they weren't.

I think in talking to our inner child, we must acknowledge that yes, this or that attachment (whatever it is) was a very important one, but it had a very negative effect on me because...and then reidentify, if needed, the reasons and how our life was affected. If the person or event had a positive effect on us, then practice the art of self talk that revolves around the positive attachments and the good that came of it. I'm still practicing that one! Once a person moves into a true recovery phase, I think the capacity to look upon the damage done more as an observer than a victim becomes one of our most powerful tools for healing.

Thanks for the invitation to discuss this subject.

Kindest regards,

tt
Title: Re: Important Attachments
Post by: sKePTiKal on March 09, 2009, 07:32:29 AM: Yes, TT... it is backwards!

Moms are "supposed" (the archetypal good mom) to WANT to love and nurture their kids... no matter what. No matter what their personality type, how they look, what their talents or weaknesses are. As children, at least, this is what we understand about that relationship. It's supported in media, stories told to children... society holds up the archetypal mom as a sacred symbol of all that is good, comforting, nurturing.

As a mom, I find that stereotype hard to live up to, and I know full well that I haven't. I have tried, however. But, most children can survive the occasional boundary if mom needs a "time out". Occasional is key...

Where the attachment turns negative, I think... (and I'm out on a limb here)... is when a child's very real need for a very real mom - regardless of how well she fits the stereotype - is treated as unimportant, an annoyance, and the child is blamed precisely for being a child... and having needs. And it's not just an occasional event - something out of the ordinary. It's the basis of the relationship and interaction between mother and child, from a very early age. And this is ongoing, changing form as the child matures. It is repeated so many times, in so many situations, and becomes the "mother's milk" of how the child feels, thinks of him or herself.

I've always thought the extremes of the self-esteem movement were silly and counter-productive. If there is no failure, then how can there be a measure of success? But in the case where the child fails consistently to receive the care and attention needed to thrive (to invoke the "good mom") - is expected to somehow do this on their own, on top of that failure - the reality of success doesn't really exist for the kid. Worse yet - if the child is prevented from enjoying those successes which do come naturally... and if those successes are ridiculed or criticized... then the child learns that they themselves are a failure; a "loser". They blame themselves.

And they learn to, chameleon-like, adapt to the requirements, the conditions, of relationship with others. Even when it's not good or natural to the child's self. They infer what it is they need to become, to not fail in invoking the good mom. The fact that they could determine the requirements or conditions of relationship with others is a far-fetched, "not for me" fairy tale. The child even learns to fear good fortune and success - because it only invokes the same old "bad mom" who makes sure the child isn't allowed to enjoy it.

In my case, I never stopped trying to invoke the "good mom" - trying to make her care about me. So I was "attached" to her through the negatives in the relationship and our interactions, and always trying to make her what she was not. I was "attached" through how I saw myself, how I felt about myself, how I thought/felt... how I allowed myself to be.
Title: Re: Important Attachments
Post by: sKePTiKal on March 10, 2009, 07:06:45 AM: Part 2 -

oh yes, and I was attached in how much I wanted to blame my mom for all the things she wasn't... didn't do... didn't know... couldn't.

That takes a LOT of energy and time. It fills up the "space" emotionally. No room for anything else, including ME.

I'm coming to realize another side-effect of negative attachment lately. It's "contingency"... conditions... living always for when - if - someday. My negative attachment was a prison... in that I couldn't enjoy, relax, feel or act on the basic care needs of myself... UNTIL... IF... WHEN... because the main condition I felt and hung on to was that my mother see me as I am and care about me... and of course, the blame and shame I wanted to experience, because she DIDN'T.

I was making my well-being contingent on unconscious emotional conditions. For instance, I'd tell myself... I like to cook - when I have enough time to prepare food before I'm exhausted & starving... so when I "retire", I'll cook healthy meals. Contingency. There is absolutely nothing stopping me (except my own thinking) from doing this now... it just will have to be accomplished a little differently. I continually tell myself: I'll quit smoking when things calm down - as if life is going to take a break, just for me. Conditions...

I tell myself that the day I leave work the last time, I'm going to be amazingly happy. But, ya know - there are going to be a lot of OTHER feelings that day that I can't predict from where I sit right now. And I keep asking:

where is it written that I can't be happy right now? that I can't enjoy myself right now? take care of myself and hubby? What "rule" - contingency - or condition is holding me back?

When I peer very quietly into the void - going in through my self and out into space and collective consciousness - the only thing I see in the way... is the permission to give up the struggle to make my mom what she is not; to stop blaming her and completely accept that I am no longer subject to, vulnerable to, dependent on that warped, negative attachment. And then I see that in my life, I have found both positive substitute moms - and the negative one. And if I can't engage people in that perverse "dance" of negative attachment... then I create it through how I teach people to treat me, expecting people to "rescue" me, and limit my emotional experience and thinking about it, to the old set of circumstances that no longer apply.

I'm like a donkey that's been harnessed to a pole, going around the same circle so often... that when the pole, harness, and reason are gone... I still go around the pole. Because I thought that was ME - who I was. The pole was my mom - and it took me 40 years to finally "get it"... that no matter how faithfully I went around the pole - I couldn't make her care about me, like a mom is supposed to. I couldn't make her well and normal. And it wasn't fair for me to expect this - after all, it wasn't fair that she expected me to be (and tried to make me) just like her. And it really wasn't her fault... it wasn't that intentional on her part. It was her unconscious motivations... self... looking for something she was attached to.

and DUH... I think I'm OK anyway and can finally stop waiting for the "miracle" to happen. The contingency. The conditions. Life is messy, crazy - insane - and that's why it's beautiful. It's random. Just like the emotional alchemy of my mom & I - random. It's not something I was that caused her to be the way she was... is. We're just different and I can see that, even if she can't.

It just doesn't matter that much any more, if she ever gets it.

I've been telling myself that I don't want to take smoking into this new phase of my life that's upon me... but it's much more than that. It's this negative attachment - and all the radioactive fallout from it - that I want to set fire to and leave behind. It doesn't make much sense - does it - to keep going around in the same circle, when there's no harness or pole, does it?

About smoking, my T said something really important - she said to not allow any rationalizations or excuses to exist for why I smoke. (contingency, conditions) She said - if you feel like smoking, smoke. If you don't feel like smoking - don't.

At some really instinctual, primeval level... the smoking is the external expression of my negative attachment... and as I let the attachment go - along with contingency and conditions for "being" (rationalization, excuses, blame) I don't feel like smoking anymore. It just doesn't matter that much any more.

I am still ME... no matter what.
Title: Re: Important Attachments
Post by: teartracks on March 10, 2009, 12:06:15 PM: Hi PR,

You've got it figured out. I mean you understand clearly where you are with your past negative attachment to your mom. I think you're ahead of me in that, the understanding part. However, I think each of us are in the process of letting go of the attachments (the hopes and dreams we clung to of our idealized mothers to materialize one day) that permeated our every action, reaction, relationship, our souls so negatively.

I have part of a post prepared. In it I want to say a few more things that come to mind after reading yours today.

tt
Title: Re: Important Attachments
Post by: sKePTiKal on March 11, 2009, 07:13:21 AM: tt - I don't feel like I have it all figured out, especially this week. It's been messy, to put it mildly. And intensely emotional. I've just spent a couple hours spewing some of it in 3-D... trying to figure out what exactly has sent me over the edge this time... why it bothers me... and why again, I can't say it, think it, can't allow myself to be vulnerable enough to let the monster be visible in my mind... Izzy's paragraph gets me a step closer... and I needed that today. A lot.

Can't wait to read what you have to say, too! I feel like I'm lost in the dark and hearing other people's thoughts and feelings is reassuring and encouraging right now.