Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Overcomer on June 14, 2009, 10:15:30 AM
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Hi all.......I have been going through so much self awareness lately. Talking outloud. Asking questions on facebook. In fact, one of my friends emailed me and asked me if I was going through anything because I was being so philosophical on facebook.
But I really want to know what is wrong with my husband. I have been googling his symptoms and have not been able to pinpoint his thing. I think it is Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder but he doesn't fit the classic symptoms of cleanliness and everything in it's place, etc.
Here are some of his "things."
1. He repeats himself over and over. He will come home and immediately start replaying his day at work. That would be ok but he tells the same story over and over again. It is almost as if their is a scratch in his record and the needle gets stuck. I tell him he is doing it and he has to finish the story before he can end.....even though he knows he has already told me.
2. He loves ONE band. He listens to them almost exclusively. He knows all trivia of the band. When they started. Who the players played for BEFORE this band got started, etc. The band was popular in the late 70s and early 80s.....he saw them in concert in 81 and is hooked. When I get in his car he immediately puts on the CD.....this has been happening for the entire 8 years I have known him.
3. He doesn't like to answer the phone or door. He gets mad at people for calling.
4. He doesn't want people to come over even though we have an awesome backyard and pool.
5. He drinks too much. He cannot drink one or two beers. He needs a six pack.....drinks until he is cross eyed and stupid.
6. The first year of marriage he would come into our room and rant and rave about my kids mostly. He would get drunk and go on and on and on about the same things.
7. He is filthy. He doesn't know a thing about clean. He will shower in a filthy, moldy shower. His toilet will have rings in it. The stove is never wiped off. He doesn't wipe his butt completely so his underwear always have skid marks on them (gross, I know......)
8. He won't talk to me about anything but work, sports or his band. We never have a regular conversation. He talks loud and repetitive and it is like he talks AT me not TO me.
ANy insight? I could really use some information to google and try to understand....
Thanks all......Kelly
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Hi ((Kelly)))
I don't have an idea for a diagnosis.However,in layman's terms, it seems as if he has shut himself down as much as he can and still function. He is not in touch with his feelings and thoughts, but seems programmed like a robot.He lives his life through the music group rather than have actual feelings and goals . My BIL does that with the Dolphins Football team.
The alcohol numbs him more. I drink 2 beers a day . I started when Scott died. I can see how easy it would be to increase as you develop tolerance . Alcohol takes the pain of life away. It takes the pain of not being able to feel your emotions away.
The drinking goes along with the rest of the description.
I don't think he can go from shut down to alive very easily.
On the other hand, I don't think you can do much to change him. Your best bet would be to try to make yourself the best you can be, get clear insight in to yourself. Then, you will have discernment and wisdom on how to handle him.
That is how I see it. Compost what does not fit, as usual on here. Love Ami
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Problem is I am subjected to his rants or repetitive work stories on a daily basis. I leave and visit the gg.randbaby or get my nails done or go shopping or go to another room to watch tv. Watching tv with him is boring. He watches the televised city council meetings.............House Hunter, Food network but most of the time hte surfs through the channels. He never watches a "story." Movies bore him. He will watch comedys but no dramas...
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It is almost like he has a combo of ADD and OCD...plus he is in his own little world.....and if you have any kind of a disagreement he exits... ....he also has a compulsion to close doors. He goes into the closet and closes the door to dress......but even to go get something in the closet. Same with the bathroom. Even if he is just going to go into the to brush his hair he closes the doors...............and I don't think he ever washes his hands. There are dirty stains on all the doors.
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One hesitates to get involved in 'diagnosis' but I think you will find some answers if you can gain access to one of the forums for couples/wives where Aspergers is at play. They can be quite hard to get in to. But if you google, I'm sure you'll find some.
People with AS come in all kinds. My own husband is scrupulously clean and devoted to a healthy income through hard work - but another 'variety' doesn't work, can't keep themselves clean and prefer to live in mountains of clutter. It's to do with the senses being out of kilter in all sorts of different ways.
Being 'obsessive' about one topic - totally AS!
Repetition - totally AS
My husband's father had AS and he was an alcoholic. Being AS in a world of NTs is enough to drive anyone to drink!!
But being NT and living with someone with AS is ALSO enough to drive anyone to drink!!
Most important thing is to look after yourself and just accept he can't change.
Allowing the truth to reveal itself to you will bring its own rewards but it tends to be a bit of a painful journey. I wish you well.
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These journeys are sure a bit painful, Rose.
You are right that we have to try to reclaim our own sanity which is a monumental task in itself. Ami
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It is almost like he has a combo of ADD and OCD...plus he is in his own little world.....and if you have any kind of a disagreement he exits... ....he also has a compulsion to close doors. He goes into the closet and closes the door to dress......but even to go get something in the closet. Same with the bathroom. Even if he is just going to go into the to brush his hair he closes the doors...............and I don't think he ever washes his hands. There are dirty stains on all the doors.
Has he ever had any kind of assessment? If he's been like this since the first day you have known him, other possibilities could be Asperger's, which is part of the Autistic Spectrum, or Pervasive Developmental Disorder-Not Otherwise Specified. Dr. Grossman could probably answer this better than I.
Bones
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Well, my daughter is autistic so I am familiar with all that. He just doesn't seem to be quite "nerdy" enough for Aspergers. He comes off very stoic.
I don't know, in social settings he seems "normal." It is just with me and when he has me all alone that this repetitive, boring, and very weird self comes out.
He really is self-absorbed as well. It really is all about him. Sex is the same thing every time......and if he wants to go out of the box then it is more a voyeur type thing. No kissing.......at all. Not since we were first a thing.
My autistic daughter always tells him he is crazy and that he talks too loud and in his gruff voice and to calm down,
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People with HFA (or Aspergers) appear perfectly 'not'-autistic to the untrained eye. That's why some mothers get accused of Munchausens when they are trying to get professionals to understand that their child has a problem!!! I didn't have that problem with my child, but it's the problem I'm having on behalf of my mother in her care home!!
Autism doesn't just 'arrive', it's in the genes - and it gets passed on in the male gene so if your daughter has a diagnosis...
Neither my AS son nor my AS husband are nerdy. People with AS come in all sorts of shapes and sizes - the one thing they have in common is sensory and communication issues - and even those are not consistent. Not between people with AS and not on a day to day basis, either.
I'd suggest his weirdness comes out with you because it's when he's relaxed and not on show, not having to behave normally.
Being 'hyper' is part of it - they get extra anxious, extra quick (or angry). They are either hyper (over the top) or hypo (completely immune and need over the top stimulation to reach normal functioning).
Maxine Aston is a good author to look out for - or Tony Attwood. Jessica Kingsley publishers has tons of books on this subject and they have a website.
BTW I noticed in your previous post that you have problems with your mother. Well, hey...just supposing...
We're brought up in that environment, that's why we marry into that environment, have offspring the same. And then wonder why we become basket cases and have major illnesses. There IS a link!!!
Knowing that my mother, husband and son all have autism has meant a basic sanity for me. I've recently gone off my rocker because there's been pressure on me to give up that reality - from people who should know better.
I'm recognised within the autistic community as someone who really understands what it's like for people with AS - as well as what it's like for the NTs in their lives (that's us!) But there are lots of 'professionals' who haven't the faintest idea and still think autism means headbanging and stupidity. Well, people with AS are highliy intelligent and the research is starting to prove that the most silent are probably hiding a great deal of intelligence - we just don't enable them to communicate it. Er...that's irrelevant to this discussion - I just needed to say it for my own benefit!!! (A quick self-affirmation just to remind myself!!)
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Hi Kelly,
Unfortunately, I can't diagnose unless I meet the person. One possibility would be to go to a couple's therapist together--and then ask the therapist to meet with your husband individually (often part of a couple's therapy "intake"). You might get some professional input that way.
Best,
Richard
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Forgive me for adding something here....
Only if the therapist has some experience of autism in adults, otherwise IF your spouse does have AS, then things could get much worse with you becoming the victim and being blamed for the difficulties between you. http://www.faaas.org/doc.php?25,187 and http://www.mediate.com/articles/linehan_s1.cfm It is, as they say, a jungle out there.
I'll go back in my box now!!
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Another tidbit to add:
Each Aspie is unique; none are classical "textbook" cases. When you meet one person with Asperger's, you have met ONE person with Asperger's. There's a WIDE variety of people on the Spectrum.
As for locating a knowledgeable therapist, that CAN be a challenge with dealing with an undiagnosed adult. I've been trying to find a knowledgeable professional in my own geographic area to obtain an assessment as I strongly suspect that I am an Aspie...based on my own experiences. It has been IMPOSSIBLE to find one that (a) is willing to assess someone over the age of 55 and (b) accepts my health insurance as I cannot afford to pay out of pocket due to unemployment. I STRONGLY feel that the Asperger's has been a continuing factor with my employment issues. It's draining to struggle to act "normal" around NTs for several hours every day! It's easier to isolate behind a closed door because it's soothing.
Bones
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Hmmmmm........well, my husband is not the fatiher of my autistic child so their is no genetics involved. I have been researching all this and he probably does have a very mild form of AS.................but he has not been to the doctor since I met him and won't go so suffice it to say, I need to decide if I can deal with him or not.....bottom line.....
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.......but he has not been to the doctor since I met him and won't go so suffice it to say, I need to decide if I can deal with him or not.....bottom line.....
Hi Kelly. That's where I ended up in thinking about my father. For a couple of years after discovering the concept of the "autistic spectrum" I went around in circles trying to figure out what diagnosis best fit. Was it AS, or HFA, or quiet narcissism, or maybe just "self absorption"? This quest eventually became sort of a trap. I am never going to get any professionall confirmation so all I can be certain of is his effect on me. He's"relationally dysfunctional" enough to have caused me problems, and that's what matters. I don't need professional or outside confirmation. I can look at the situation myself and see what is happening.
Another way the labeling gets to be a subtle trap is how it redefines the relationship. If he has an inherited disease are you then obligated as a compassionate person to put up with it? In my FOO, the idea there is something "wrong" with my father is one of the hidden dynamics of the relationship going back decades. So finding a name for it really isn't a way to get free.
Many of the behaviors you list are familiar. One that really jumps out is being talked "AT" instead of "TO". That's one of my fathers typical modes. He can explain, lecture, monologue, debate, but reciprocal supportive conversation is not part of his repertoire. His attention span when it comes to others is about 3 seconds before the conversation gets flipped back to being about him. Your husband sure seems to qualify as "self absorbed enough to be a problem" even if it's hard to come up with a specific label.
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My reason for believing a label is useful is that it gives you a way of understanding and relating.
Neurotypical : you can expect behaviour change as a possibiilty. It could be a waste of time, it may not be worth wishing for but that's another issue and another diecision. You can expect someone to offer you respect and consideration and not to mess with your mind (eg gaslighting)
AS : behaviour change is not a possibility. They think differently. When they are 'horrible', it's the way they are built and you don't have to take it personally. When that person is indifferent to whether or not you're around, you'll know it doesn't imply that they don't care. (If I died, it wouldn't make a jot of difference to my Aspies! Here today, gone tomorrow - what a gift!!) You can reach behind the behaviour to someone who has no idea why you are reacting the way you are! You can learn to communicate logically and without metaphor so as to reduce opportunities for confusion or misunderstandings. ('Pull your socks up' is one of those confusing metaphors) You'll learn to be precise in evaluating and communicating what you want.
I'm going to give an example here. BonesMS - I hope this is OK with you. I want to express some of my feelings : I was having some negative thoughts and feelings because you seemed to completely ignore my contributions. It was as though I didn't exist. I felt elbowed aside because there is an expectation that the preceding post will be built on, not ignored if you want to agree or say the same thing. But the instant you said that you suspect you may be an Aspie, I viewed the situation completely differently. My growing feelings of resentment and irritation disappeared in a flash. I now 'get' the interaction and I don't have an issue about it any more. And you have my sympathies re coping with NTs! :-)
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My reason for believing a label is useful is that it gives you a way of understanding and relating.
I agree RC. The challenge for some of us is the inability to ever get an "official" diagnosis. My father at 75 years of age is not going to go for any evaluation. My siblings are in la la land. My mother displays her own brand of self absorption, which often operates in collusion with my father. Other than the validation and support I've gotten from this board, which has been wonderful, I'm on my own. And I find I'm still uncomfortable with labeling my fathers condition a "genetic disease" because that tends to imply I should put up with his behavior (endure the abuse?), since it isn't his fault. I may be particularly sensitive to this aspect because they used his problems as an excuse for his behavior even during my childhood. They just didn't have the sophistocated diagnoses back then.
I guess I'd the say the labeling is helpful to a point. But figuring out how to relate with the person is still a matter of personal choice. As Kelly stated, the bottom line is whether we can put up with the behavior or not, regardless of how it is labeled.
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Hear, hear:
figuring out how to relate with the person is still a matter of personal choice.
That's liberating.
Sometimes getting stuck in the studying (about the labels) is another way of being unloving to ourselves.
Hops
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My reason for believing a label is useful is that it gives you a way of understanding and relating.
Neurotypical : you can expect behaviour change as a possibiilty. It could be a waste of time, it may not be worth wishing for but that's another issue and another diecision. You can expect someone to offer you respect and consideration and not to mess with your mind (eg gaslighting)
AS : behaviour change is not a possibility. They think differently. When they are 'horrible', it's the way they are built and you don't have to take it personally. When that person is indifferent to whether or not you're around, you'll know it doesn't imply that they don't care. (If I died, it wouldn't make a jot of difference to my Aspies! Here today, gone tomorrow - what a gift!!) You can reach behind the behaviour to someone who has no idea why you are reacting the way you are! You can learn to communicate logically and without metaphor so as to reduce opportunities for confusion or misunderstandings. ('Pull your socks up' is one of those confusing metaphors) You'll learn to be precise in evaluating and communicating what you want.
I'm going to give an example here. BonesMS - I hope this is OK with you. I want to express some of my feelings : I was having some negative thoughts and feelings because you seemed to completely ignore my contributions. It was as though I didn't exist. I felt elbowed aside because there is an expectation that the preceding post will be built on, not ignored if you want to agree or say the same thing. But the instant you said that you suspect you may be an Aspie, I viewed the situation completely differently. My growing feelings of resentment and irritation disappeared in a flash. I now 'get' the interaction and I don't have an issue about it any more. And you have my sympathies re coping with NTs! :-)
Thanks for understanding, Rosencratz!
One other thing I forgot to mention that Aspies may tend to do...I know I tend to do it...perserverate. It drives NTs CRAZY!
BonesMS
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haha - but not once they UNDERSTAND!! :-) And if you can all have a sense of humour about it. :-)
And..you know what...it's a GLORIOUS feeling to 'understand'. It's tough getting beyond what AS does to you as a child when the parent has remained undiagnosed but once you get there - there's absolute JOY in understanding. JOY and serenity.
And that's what has made my mother's care home's reaction to my understanding of my mother so difficult to accept : their refusal to validate something joyous and their determination to destroy it. (This refers to something I'm working through in another thread).
BonesMS - Thanks for allowing me to express my 'self' in relation to you. And for receiving my understanding. That gave me great joy.
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Ok, so I know my mother is clearly a N.......and now I am beginning to believe that my husband actually has a mild case of AS.....wow.....my daughter (by another father who probably also has a different form......but I am almost sure...............case of AS!!) has autism. High functioning but not high enough to ever be "normal," meaning she will probably always live with me or in some type of group home....
So the question is........Can I live in a world that is somewhat "normal?" I have always been with men who have addictions or disorders. If I were to divorce this man, wouldn't it seem plausible that the next man I meet and fall in love with will also be screwed up in some way and I will not be happy???? Is it true that I can never be happy?
I watched the movie, Made of Honor...............a cute little love story. At the end of the movie there was a song.......Stop crying your heart out........they also played it at the end of Butterfly Effect. I was melancholy all day yesterday. Sad, because I have never had that kind of love which is all consuming.......he loves me......I love him. I cannot get enough of him. He cannot get enough of me.
I want that love. I want to be in love!!!!! I do not think I will ever find that. I look for it in all the wrong places. Some old friends used to sing that song to me.....
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So the question is........Can I live in a world that is somewhat "normal?" I have always been with men who have addictions or disorders. If I were to divorce this man, wouldn't it seem plausible that the next man I meet and fall in love with will also be screwed up in some way and I will not be happy????
Seems to me knowledge of the pattern changes the pattern, whether you decide to leave or stay. Stay with him and the knowledge of the AS tendencies can change way you deal with his behavior. Leave and you will have a better understanding of where the mistakes were made in the past.
FWIW the way my mother seems to cope with my (probably) AS father is by getting her emotional support outside the marriage from her group of friends and associations. I'm not sure if this is a conscious effort or not on her part, but it has become pretty clear to me what is going on. In a lot of ways they seem more like roommates than a married couple. They've been married for over 50 years so I guess it's a workable solution. In the end, it always comes down to what a person can live with.
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You're right SilverLining - and your example is right too (about finding the care you need in your social life - my life fell apart when we moved to somewhere where I was isolated and no longer belonged to women's groups, was no longer active in the local community and never got past being an 'outsider') You can stay or you can go. I decided to go. 'Gave' myself cancer to force the issue!!! (Much better to make an honest decision tho' - and not scare yourself half to death first!! ;-))
Your daughter need not be as dependent as you think. It's 'developmental' - so she may take longer than most but people with AS can live (semi-)independently. Believe she can do more than you think she can and I'm sure she'll surprise you.
As far as future relationships are concerned - it's not easy to avoid falling into the same hole. I feel the same way. I thought I was SO choosing someone NOT like my mother. And in most ways I was right. But there were things I had no idea about. And I find that I'm still attracted to men who have AS. GROAN! Well, they're so NICE!!! And they feel SAFE. But I know I'll want MORE - as time goes on. I'll want a closer relationship, not just a respectful intelligent intellectual one. I'll want delicious sex, not functional sex. Am I willing to accept/put up with less than I could have when i don't even know if it's out there for me? Well, I'd rather not keep constantly being faced with disappointment and frustration. Since I moved on, I do have moments of calm which I never had before. Until my latest catastrophe (which only arrived in my life because of my mother) I actually had HAPPY moments! For no reason at all. Like normal people probably have. Wowowowowow! :D
I don't think I want that kind of all-consuming love you mention. I've always picked up men-with-a-problem but I think I've experienced the all-consuming kind - it makes you very vulnerable. As long as you don't mind the crash at the end of it, why not go out to experience it if you've never experienced it. (You could have an affair!!)
We have only one life. If it's what you want - it's probably what you need.
Me...I want sensible love. But I don't know what possibilities are out there. Maybe 'sensible love' is Aspie love. Maybe they are the only men who are loyal and don't play games. But I've already said that I want more than that. It seems that once you're in this loop, there's no way out. :(
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haha - but not once they UNDERSTAND!! :-) And if you can all have a sense of humour about it. :-)
And..you know what...it's a GLORIOUS feeling to 'understand'. It's tough getting beyond what AS does to you as a child when the parent has remained undiagnosed but once you get there - there's absolute JOY in understanding. JOY and serenity.
And that's what has made my mother's care home's reaction to my understanding of my mother so difficult to accept : their refusal to validate something joyous and their determination to destroy it. (This refers to something I'm working through in another thread).
BonesMS - Thanks for allowing me to express my 'self' in relation to you. And for receiving my understanding. That gave me great joy.
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Rosencrantz))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Bones
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Gave us both great joy by the look of it. :D
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Well, something stops me from doing that. I guess my morals are in the way. But if I found that love I would act on it. Right now I am broke with him.....I would be VERY broke without him.....thanks for all your input...
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broke as in 'short of cash' or 'broke' as in 'broken spirit'?
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short of money......i am ok with him.....i just stay away from him when he bores me...
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Hi Kelly. I can’t begin to speculate what the problem might be, but two things on your list describe my husband perfectly.
3. He doesn't like to answer the phone or door. He gets mad at people for calling.
4. He doesn't want people to come over even though we have an awesome backyard and pool.
His pattern of watching television is also the same as my husband’s. Very short attention span, constantly flipping channels. Movies and drama bore him. He’ll watch the same dumb comedies over and over, but if I turn on Law and Order, he’ll leave the room.
My husband will not answer the phone or the door. He acts like he’s afraid to – doesn’t know what to do. Honestly, I don’t know how he lived before caller ID. When the phone rings, he looks at the name on the caller ID and whines like a baby, “It’s the hair salon. What should I do? I don’t know what to do.” To which I respond, “You answer it.” Most of the time he sits there staring at the phone until the machine picks up, then makes excuses for not answering because the machine already picked up.
He also doesn’t want to socialize. Doesn’t want to go to anything we’re invited to, and doesn’t want any friends coming over to the house.
I’ve talked to my therapist about this, and she believes he has social anxiety. He also has some OCD going on. Like your husband, mine is also fixated on one band, has every CD they ever released (imports, remixes, bonus tracks . . . sometimes 5 or more copies of the same album). Knows every worthless piece of trivia possible about them. On and on.
The big difference between your husband and mine is the drinking. Mine has maybe one or two beers on the weekend, but I’ve never seen him get drunk, so I don’t know about that part of it.
If you could convince him to go to therapy with you, it might really help. I know that’s easier said than done. My husband (I’m guessing many men) has a real problem with therapy. He thinks therapy is for women, because women like to talk about their problems. I DID get him go to some couples therapy with me, but we didn’t get anywhere. He wouldn’t talk, and in some cases lied to the doctor. He didn't want her to know that he had problems, and she ended up telling me I was wasting my time, because you can't help someone who doesn't WANT to be helped.
Therapy only works if the person is aware that they have a problem, and is willing to admit that they need help. That’s the hard part. If you can get him to see a doctor with you, it would probably give you some answers, but getting there is half the battle.
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Dear Kelly
I think the love you are talking about must come to you. I have it with Bill. I have never had it before.Maria had it with one person. I think it is once in a lifetime or never.
However, the pain of living in our own skins is always there--great love or not. The NM robbed us of security and self esteem and even the perfect man can not remedy that.
He can help but our climb up is solitary.
That is where I am. I am so insecure from constant badgering and haranging from my NM. She wanted to snuff me out and almost did. She hated my identity worse than anything.
My greatest dream is to love myself. I would chose this before an external love. For me, the external love helps me to love myself but sometimes I am appalled at how far I have to go to have simple respect for myself.
I think God gave me this gift . Three months after I met Bill, Scott died.
God is the answer. He will show you the way if you reach out to Him and surrender. My way was unconventional but God is so much more than anyone can ever know. His ways are higher than ours, as you know.
Love to you, Ami
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have you consider the possibility to be alone with your children? In peace? With no man in the house? Just curious. Yousiad that the next man would be another with addictions, why do you have to have another?