Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Ami on July 09, 2009, 02:01:42 PM
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My H is gaslighting me with everyone in my life. I am really close to my guitar teacher and my H has been poisoning him against me.He tried with my friend Maria but she told me.
I feel like I am in a Twilight Zone movie.
I have a small group of people including my S, Aunt, and B who really know what a manipulating N my H is.
No wonder we have such self doubt and lack of confidence. Those who had N parents were gaslighted their entire lives.
When I read people's posts and see the lack of self esteem, I can see how it developed.
For the people who don't know the term,it is when s/one tries to get you to to doubt that you CAN perceive reality correctly. You doubt your very eyes, ears and gut.
Then, you have no defenses to protect yourself and are set up for many of the awful things that have happened to us on the Board.
I would love to hear people's experiences with being Gaslighted by anyone---friend, parent ,husband etc.
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Hey Ami, you've no doubt read a lot about my gaslighting experiences... I spent a lot of time dissecting them; I guess that's natural; and while the horror of it all is quite fascinating, in the macabre sense... the question for me, is always: what am I gonna do about it now? It's not a stopping point, in other words... a place it's not possible to get past. I've found that even the greatest fear (that I was going crazy) of my personal gaslighting experience is manageable - as long as I have plenty of positive, supportive feedback, like you do... from people who see the behavior of the N and judge for themselves. Eventually, you'll know on your own... though it's always nice to have validating feedback. I don't think I'll ever be so confident in myself as to not need that kind of reassurance in some situations. Maybe... I won't rule it out...
On the other hand - I gotta admit that I revisit those experiences and look at how they influence me now, frequently, as I learn to trust myself more & more by taking more risks. I guess eventually, I'll wonder why I was so silly as to believe what I knew wasn't true (my own judgement about myself)... and it won't be so painful to know that I sure 'nuff DID... once upon a time. But now that I know I have a choice about what to believe about myself - I don't spend so much time with eyes "wide shut" in horror... rather, I look for what I want in the situation - and what I can do to help myself attain what I want from it. It's still very much a struggle... but it is getting better; easier; to move past the old patterns and try something new.
Not quite what you asked for... more the experience of the experience... or working with gaslighting experiences. Making something good out of something that was originally, very bad and very, very painful. Hope you find something that is useful; you're welcome to it and if not... that's OK too.
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Ami, believe it or not, I was gaslighted by my own psychiatrist.
About 15 years ago, I was seeing this woman who put me on Paxil. I was having side effects, so she told me to stop taking it, cold turkey. The drug was labeled "not habit forming," and she said it was okay. I didn't find out until much later that there were known issues with the drug, that it WAS habit forming, and that there had been some suicides. Anyway, once I started withdrawing from the drug I underwent a horrifying personality change. I stopped eating, became suicidal, and lashed out at people at the office, which resulted in my being fired.
Well, my psych must have been afraid of a malpractice suit, so proceeded to gaslight me. She made me believe that I was crazy. She told me (and hubby) that I was a sociopath, a "drama queen," and that I over-reacted to situations. She made me doubt myself and had me believing that I had mental problems that I didn't have.
Several years later, I got invited into a class action suit against the pharmaceutical company that makes Paxil. They settled, and I received a check for a few thousand dollars, after the lawyers took their pint of blood. After I got the check, I didn't even care about the money. All that mattered was that I felt SO validated. At that moment I knew that I wasn't crazy, and that the psych had tried to gaslight me to cover up what she knew about the drug. The entire process of uncovering the truth about the known problems with the drug, and the length of the lawsuit took about eight years, so by that time it was too late to file a complaint with the medical board for malpractice, so she got off the hook. But man, talk about a wicked thing to do . . . gaslight your own patient in order to cover your butt.
Kathy
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Thank you ((( Kathy)))
That story helps with my own coming of age of accepting HOW badly I have been gaslighted by my M, F and H. I feel like a stupid fool but I guess I could not help it when my M set me up so badly.
That story is a real doozy but I bet it is more common than we think. Love and Hugs Ami
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I am so sorry Ami. I experienced being set up by M, F, and H - a kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't - no matter what I did it was wrong. It is not the same as what you are experiencing but it is davastating none-the-less. Are you able to leave?
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Ami, you're not a stupid fool. You're a victim.
Children of Ns, and spouses of Ns - we're made to feel worthless. Most of have very low self-esteem, and very little confidence in ourselves. We've been told by people we loved and trusted that we're stupid and insignificant. People who have been emotionally damaged are much easier targets. It was easy for my psych to gaslight me because I doubted myself. I also placed my trust in her because she was an authority figure. When you're raised to obey authority figures, well, you just do it. We may be emotionally vulnerable, but not stupid.
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Thank you for your responses. It was a touch of love and I needed it. GS, I am in the PAINFUL position of trying to do what I have been expressing to Kathy----trust myself. I am trying to follow my authentic feelings as Alice Miller calls them.
My marriage represents my FOO dilemma.
My marriage is a repeat of my FOO in so many ways. I never really got away from my FOO. They were always in my head as introjects. Can I get away now?
Sometimes,I feel I have the strength and sometimes I don't. Ami
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Ami,
I am so sorry to hear you H is doing this to you. You have expressed how fondly you are of your guitar teacher. A happy place in your life.
It's so infuriating someone can damage that with their power of evilness.
Have you talked with your friend or is the brainwashing already done?
I'm glad you were able to recognize it and label it for what it is.
love and support, seasons
p.s. Kathy sending out a hug, what a torrid story of abuse and power.
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Dear (((Seasons)))
The one wonderful place in all of this is that I am trusting myself more. I WANT to be a solid self and I am getting it even though it seems so slow.
To have yourself is to have everything.
I know that people on the Board can understand this. Love Ami
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Y'know, about the gaslighting thing ... I know we all feel like fools once we realize this has been done to us over and over throughout our lives ... but ... BUT ... I was reading awhile back that one of the major functions of social relationships is reality testing ... that we HAVE to have people to "chew things over" with and to share our experiences or we can't ever be certain of what really happened ... kind of like if you are in the house alone and think you hear noises ... it's hard to tell if you are just being paranoid if there is nobody there to ask, "Did you hear that?"
My point being --- it's a human quality to reconstruct what has happened by sharing it with others. It's not a weakness. The problem is that we have been in relationship with people who don't want to co-construct reality, they want the construction of reality all to themselves, and then they want us to acquiesce to their version. And they generally are unable to alter their own reality to accommodate other people's input. And these kind of people have to control reality because their inner selves are too weak to withstand a reality that includes them being wrong or mean or evil in any way. And they become more and more wrong and mean and evil because when you can't acknowledge your faults you can't work on them.
Those of you that are interested in attachment theory --- go back and read Bowlby's original work ... there's a trilogy of books, and all of them are eminently readable, you don't have to be a psychiatrist or a psychologist to get what he says. The first one is mainly about the theory of attachment, which is interesting because he talks about ethology, or animal behavior, and how he first determined that social attachments are a basic drive ... the second one is about separation, and his observations at the Anna Freud Centre in London during WWII, when kids were separated from their parents ... the third one is about loss and grief. Somewhere in the trilogy he has a chapter on "knowing what you're not supposed to know and feeling what you're not supposed to feel." He is talking about gaslighting. He doesn't use some of the more egregious and mundane examples we have all experienced here on the board, but he does talk about adults that convince children they have not witnessed the traumatic events (such as a parent's suicide) that they did actually witness; and also, adults that force the idea that their childhoods were idyllic onto them.
When people gaslight us, and we can see that now and not get sucked into their distorted reality ... I don't think we should ever feel stupid that as children (or at any other time) we gave in and took their version of reality for our own. WE WERE NORMAL FOR DOING THAT! That's what people do. What sucks is that we didn't have people in our lives that were willing to listen to what WE experienced and to incorporate THAT into THEIR reality.
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(((Heartof Pilgrimmage)))) You are brilliant! Thank you. Ami
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It took me a long time to *grip this* and yes Ami there is always gut but when you are on a defense 24/7 and things that appear to be...I care, I love, I'm hurt, how could you think, it's all for you...ect that sometmes it appears to be anything BUT ATTACK..
So we tell our gut shut up how dare us ...they care, they love, they somethng but there is that gut feelings..hmmm...I suspect attack but no *evidence* of just it being that....how can you think clear when you are on an emotinal run.
It appeared that N was defending and even would make me Mad when they dared to do so when they were clearly wrong, lying, manipulating.....Gas Light Effect......If this is an attack then what is the I care...I love...even tears. And thus I was 24/7 on the defensive side....Capable of stopping attack or being attacked (if you know it's coming and reconize it as one. Sometimes it's hard because of the way N's work. They defend thier Actions.....or do they? I don't think so. I think they are always on the Offense...Attack with a Goal. That is what a manipulator is. So I can see why Others such as your guitar instructor may get sucked in as many as my friends have with ex-h. They see them defending. Self Protection..oh no, that is not what happened, Oh dont' listen they are crazy, They are going to come here and I want you to know what is going on...ect...Offensive side...
That is when I was able to Defend....Stop Attack which meant not engaging or being of the defensive side....A oh boy is that happeneing to you....and shut it down. Go no further and for most they saw that he was on the Offense all by themselves.
Not everyone saw it that way but I didn't care. And eventually with N such as ex-h and now N friend to stop it there was only one way...No contact.
They are alwasy on the offense (IMO) with eveyrone and everything...
I just can't live that way always defensive but if you must if you look at them as Offense you can pretty much figure out what attack is coming or already happened because they are great at stealth...while they just so love, just so care, just so Uh-What play dumb, I'm so hurt...ya sure...
So that was my experience...
Love
Deb
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My H is gaslighting me with everyone in my life. I am really close to my guitar teacher and my H has been poisoning him against me.He tried with my friend Maria but she told me.
I feel like I am in a Twilight Zone movie.
I have a small group of people including my S, Aunt, and B who really know what a manipulating N my H is.
No wonder we have such self doubt and lack of confidence. Those who had N parents were gaslighted their entire lives.
When I read people's posts and see the lack of self esteem, I can see how it developed.
For the people who don't know the term,it is when s/one tries to get you to to doubt that you CAN perceive reality correctly. You doubt your very eyes, ears and gut.
Then, you have no defenses to protect yourself and are set up for many of the awful things that have happened to us on the Board.
I would love to hear people's experiences with being Gaslighted by anyone---friend, parent ,husband etc.
Hello Ami,
This is an interesting thread.
I hope it's okay with you if I refer to your initial post in an attempt to draw a distinction between gaslighting and lying.
If somebody lies, or is implying untrue/negative things about me to another person, & it is not true, & I know that it is not true, & I know that they are lying/implying - then I am in touch with reality - yes? Therefore, this doesn't qualify as someone 'gaslighting' me.
I believe it's essential to recognize the very important subtle differences when dealing with any of these problems, because different problems require different strategies if we are in the business of solving them.
Lizzie20
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Dear Lizzie
You have a very good point. The problem was that I believed their reality over mine. That is the definition of gaslighting, as you so wisely said. I took my N parents reality and then my NH's.
I took a part in their play.I played the "object" for them.Now, I am trying to wake up to myself as I am and then the outside world as it is.
Maybe the definition of good mental health is when you can see reality as it is. What do you think? Ami
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I think this is a great description of Gaslighting:
http://lauriekendrick.wordpress.com/2008/07/03/the-sad-art-of-gaslighting/
“Gaslighting is the systematic attempt by one person to erode another’s reality. This is done by telling them that what they are experiencing isn’t so – and, the gradual giving up on the part of the other person.”
Stern goes on to say that gaslighting generally takes two to tango: one person who needs to be in control to maintain his sense of self; the other, who needs the relationship to maintain his/her sense of self and because of this, he/she acquiesces—constantly.
The victim ends up giving far, far more than he/she gets. This process invariably erodes the soul.
You know you’re in a full blown Gaslight Effect when you find yourself second guessing your own reality; when you’re unsure of what you really think and feel. Why? Because you’ve allowed someone else to define your reality for you. Invariably, this leads to being told what to think and how to think. And then in turn, you’re told who you are. You’re molded into an entity that someone else deems worthy of his or her love, affection; attention.
And because of the constant whittling away at your psyche, you believe you’re a better person as he or she sees you; as he/she needs you to be.
As the kids used to say….”word”.
Having been “gaslit” in the past, I’d like to share my thoughts with you.
Gaslighting I think, is all that I just mention, with refined manipulation added. And this is maniplation that’s defined by greed and selfishness. It creates cognitive dissonance and it’s this “in between state of cognizance” that women–people, find themselves most vulnerable.
It’s being forced to color inside the lines that others have drawn for us. If we don’t, we’ll be alone and that to some people, is a fate worse than death. Knowing that isolation and lonliness are the dreaded alternatives, we allow gaslighting. It’s not compromise. Hardly–it’s utter relinquishing of the self.
The authentic self.
Then, you find yourself in a horrifically bad relationship but you stay because of that INSIDIOUS goddamn mindset that a bad relationship beats no relationship.
,.
Make no mistake: this IS emotional abuse in every sense and women are almost always the victims. Don’t misunderstand the premise: women can be the culprits too. But women bear the brunt of more negative genetic coding–or so it seems. We’ve been subjugated by primordial design to believe relationships, love….and men, define us.
But gaslighting isn’t limited to love relationships. We also fall victim to it on the job; co-workers and bosses are often perpetrators and it also happens within the family dynamic.
Gaslighting is very real. As I stated, I’ve lived it. I just didn’t know it had a name. Or a book that defined it. Ordinarily, I try my best to avoid partaking from the sump pump of pop psychology. In other words, if Dr. Phil mentions it, I run in the opposite direction. But this book makes sense.
And here’s my two cents.
Integrity (something sorely lacking in the world today) applies to behavior that consistently matches principles. You can’t be a person of integrity if selfishness and self centered behavior are what fuels every motivation. Gaslighters almost always lack integrity; as distorted as this sounds, they thrive on their own selfishness. They are always self-centered. They are consummate liars. Invariably, they will never fail to fail you.
One must then ask, how can a gaslighter expect to be loved if he or she doesn’t know how to love? How can he or she venture into a real, equitable partnership without knowing how to play fair?
The answer? Manipulation passed off as love or affection…or concern
No one will love ever love you like I love you
You’re nothing without me
I ONLY want to take care of you
I only want what’s best for you and only I know what that is
You have changed and grown so much since knowing me. I make you think and you are better because of it
Furthermore, what these people demand of themselves will rarely work with others. Once again, we touch on “coloring inside the lines” we draw for others. And when someone refuses, that’s how gaslighting starts. I think foisting this on someone else, is the quintessence of neurotic narcissism.
What this book reveals isn’t earth shattering. If you’ve lived it, then you know exactly what gaslighting is all about. For me, it merely gave a name to what I’d experienced.
In remedying the gaslight malady, it goes on to state the obvious:
Women (especially) must be more assertive. We must be fearless about defining who we are, what we are and what we really think. We must empower ourselves to move forward and find real contentment in a relationship as opposed to sanctuary, no matter how fleeting.
I’ll take it one step further:
Some of us, by virtue of childhood experience, seek emotional replicas of our fathers and mothers. If we had a controlling parent, very often we’ll seek controlling partners. We’re most fortunate if we can break that cycle. And just because we find ourselves in abject co-dependence with someone cruel and controlling, well…that doesn’t mean we have to stay. Gather your courage and leave Simon Legree. As the James Gang so aptly sang, walk away.
But remember this: walking away is sometimes much easier than garnering the strength required to take that first step.
And keep this in mind as well: you’ll never gather courage by allowing fear to keep you in a one-sided relationship that’s devoid of romance, passion and real emotion. To do so is a sign of weakness. It’s giving your power away. We should be empowering ourselves. When we relinquish control, we hand over the reigns of our lives, willingly.
Frequently.
Tragically.
But for some, this is the perfect scenario. We’re absolved of all blame if we have no control of a situation. If we believe we’re not responsible, we can’t be held accountable. Especially when it comes to our own actions. Victimhood is extraordinarily convenienct. It all boils down to neglect. We’re being neglected and we’re neglecting ourselves. Well then– here’s your wake up call: neglect kills as often as a bullet to the head.
It kills relationships just as efficiently. And if you sit by and allow it to happen, you’re just as guilty.
In closing, I’ll just say this: Caruso loved the sound of his own voice…some people love the sound of their own opinions being expressed.
This should come as no surprise.
The typical gaslighter defies Copernican theory. They think THEY are, in fact, the center of the universe. In reality, this blustery bravado masks rampant insecurity. Inside, they’re just scared little boys and girls , very much afraid to be hurt, yet they think they’re too smart, too superior to actually feel the pain they’ve so deeply buried.
Sadly, this fear-based arrogance means they themselves have been “gaslit”…made victims by their own actions.
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Wowser Ann. That was brilliant! xxoo Ami
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Ditto!
Thank you Ann :)
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You guys are sooo welcome!!
I thought it was a great description & discussion.
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Hi everybody,
I especially liked what ann3 said towards the end of her post about not seeing ourselves as victims (or something to that effect). Once we realize what has been happening then it becomes our responsibility to decide what to do about it (sometimes people choose to do nothing but that is still a choice).
I believe also what you said about women usually being the victims and men usually being the perpetrators --- in the big picture, that is true, but it was not true in my case. Out of my husband and I's four parents, only my dad was not a narcissist. And of the three other parents, only his dad seems to have some sense of shame when he misbehaves. The two moms are shameless. Actually, I wonder if the manifestation of narcissism in women is just different so that it's not as recognized. I also wonder if borderline personality disorder (which is the most common personality disorder in women, and also the most associated with a history of childhood abuse) is related to having a narcissistic mother. I don't have BPD (for the record) but have in the past had intense emotional swings, probably related to having to get "all worked up" to get my mother to pay attention. It took me a long time to change that pattern.
Also, i do believe that understanding how narcissism develops is helpful, but not so that you can then feel more guilty when and if you go no contact, or to then feel guilty for setting boundaries or rules with them. I think it's helpful so that you can work on letting go of the rage, which binds you to them. I have dramatically cut back on contact with both my mother and my mother in law (my in laws are divorced, and my husband is practically no contact with his father anyway, so that wasn't really an issue). So that's why I sound all calm and forgiving in this post :wink: ... But that's not to say I won't get infuriated again next time one of them acts ugly!
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Dear Heart of Pilgrimmage,
I have had No Contact for 6 months. I feel so differently. I never realized how much intensity my NM had to trap me, motionless and paralyzed ,in her web.
The NM is from the Twilight Zone. She is evil.
I am just starting to see and feel what really happened. With that, I am seeing that it was them(my parents are a team even though my F is "sweet").
I was the victim . It was not my fault. Love Ami
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Hi Ami,
I'm glad going no contact is helping you! From what I read here on the message board, most adult children of narcissists feel lots better once they decide to do that. Good, good, good for you, for taking responsibility for your own emotional health. You are also such a warm support on this board; even though I don't post much I read what you have written and can sense your warmth. You can't fake that kind of warmth ...
I know what you mean about the parents being a team. I always felt like together, my parents constituted some kind of force of nature. As I said before, my dad was not a narcissist, but I'm beginning to see that dealing with my mom for almost 50 years is a lot of what made him so stubborn and hardheaded about his own opinions. I think he had to fight hard in that marriage to think for himself, and in the process he became pretty overbearing about imposing his opinions on me. The difference between him and a narcissist though is that he could see my point of view, DID NOT gaslight, could admit his own faults and failings, and could consider various points of view with other people too. But, he was really really opinionated, and I think that dealing with my mom made him very stubborn and argumentative. I remember throughout my childhood them having big fights because he would say she was "talking down" to him. My mom would dismiss his complaints as "he feels bad about himself because all he went through as a child" --- for example, he was dyslexic and was in school before anybody knew what dyslexia was, and learned to hate school and to resent having to read (ironic --- he became the best schoolteacher ever! He could empathize with struggling children). I guess you can tell how much I loved him and how much I miss him now. But I had to keep him at arm's length as an adult, because he would try to step in and tell me what to do and "solve my problems". After 4 years of dealing with my mom after his death, I have a much greater understanding of how he ended up that way. But --- but --- but --- everyone in my family will tell you he kept my mother on a short leash and under control. Of course you can't control ANYBODY completely but she's so much worse now that I have become completely admiring of what he did for almost 50 years.
One of the most important things I think my dad taught me (especially when dealing with narcissists) is the ability to laugh at myself. He would tell funny stories about the klutzy or goofy things he did, and I do the same thing. I learned that there is no shame in making mistakes, even stupid ones! In fact, telling them to others can make other people laugh, which increases the happiness in the world, I think! On purpose broadcasting the crazy things you've done is like the polar opposite of narcissism!
I feel for you, Ami, in that your father is "sweet" but enables your mom. My dad probably did that too, but I've seen it happen in a much worse way with my aunt and uncle. My aunt is my mom's sister. My uncle, now in his 90s, gave up having an opinion on anything long ago. He totally acquiesced to her long long ago. The whole family has always revolved around her. Somebody posted a poll on this board about what you think your parent would do if there was only one life jacket and the boat was going down --- well, in my aunt's case, WE KNOW WHAT SHE WOULD DO. My mom (yes, it is ironic my mom told this story) said once my aunt, uncle, and two cousins (children at the time), and my teenage mom, were in a little rowboat and it started taking in water. My aunt started screaming and grabbed the one life jacket and put it on! I couldn't believe it when I saw that question on the poll! My uncle is sweet too --- when I was a preschooler he would come and get me just to play all the time, I have many happy memories of him as a child. But his total acquiescence was equal to throwing his children to the wolves. Basically their daughter has been no contact for over 30 years. The son survived very much like my dad --- non-narcissistic but extremely opinionated and stubborn.
I don't know what the heck my grandparents did or didn't do, but they seem to have done a serious number on both of their daughters! But then again, to go back to what Ann3 said, both daughters had choices and they made them all by themselves.
Last time I posted I said I'd be less calm and forgiving the next time my mom made me mad, and it already happened (I only posted yesterday!). She called me this morning and in the course of the conversation I said something like, "My husband took the kids on a little trip this weekend so I could work, I've had them all summer" to which she replied, "No you have not had them all summer." She said my daughter has been working and she took my son for two weeks, so I have not had them all summer. Why does she have this weird need to tell me I don't experience what I experience? This was not even the point of what I said, which I think any idiot could have figured out. The point was, my whole summer has revolved around taking the kids places (including my daughter to her job!) and I needed a couple of days to work!
I didn't say anything, but I'm wondering if people on this forum think I should call her on her gaslighting every time, if they think it will make her back off. In fact, this question is the main point of me giving you such a long story about how my dad kept her in line. She has gotten better since I've confronted her about her gaslighting, but I'm wondering if I don't keep her intimidated if she will start getting bad again.
For the most part, I think taking offense to everything a person says is just wasting energy. But, I have also discovered that confronting my mom shames her into at least shutting up for awhile.
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Great thread, greats posts.
From Heart
The problem is that we have been in relationship with people who don't want to co-construct reality, they want the construction of reality all to themselves, and then they want us to acquiesce to their version.
That describes my N sister to a T, and if anyone read where I said I have but one sister with whom I can re-construct, we are having many more open e-conversations. We recall an incident from away back, then what our perception of it was. We disagree, but that’s okay, because we are different people. The problem all round with the siblings is that we never shared feelings from day one, and now we all live in our own reality but only the two of us are comparing, being all brought up together.. To me there is but the one N amongst the siblings.
How about ‘gaslighting’ without words? Like my father’s narcissistic rages, without empathy for children or animals, then beat us. I am surmising that instilled fear in me and the lack of worth. That would be topped off with my mother not ‘protecting’ me.
Now the 4 siblings safely ensconced in marriage with children and grandchildren have not discussed this part amongst ourselves. Part of that is because I was their scapegoat, (now words were used here) but now we are all over 65 and there is just one sister and me comparing thoughts, memories. She is being far more open than ever before, and I am the one alone.
(I wonder if I have always had the wrong perception of 'safety in a marriage". Each married in 1956, 1957, 1962, and 1967 and my common-law H beat me. I could be away off base about what goes on behind their closed doors. Anyone agree?)
I might be alone, but not lonely, feel better with the NC I put into effect and would only re-connect with others if they, too, would re-construct on an honest basis and respect my perception as well.
Make any sense?
Izzy
(If I sound incoherent, it might be that after 4 months, I am still in pain and craving sleep, but hating to go to bed as there the pain is worse than sitting and has warped my mind.)
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Dear Heartof Pilgrimmage
Your words made me cry. Thank you! Love Ami
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Hi everyone,
Thought this article might be of interest.
The article is long. Point #6 addresses narcissistic gaslighting.
Characteristics of narcissistic mothersNarcissists gaslight routinely. The narcissist will either insinuate or will tell .... Not all narcissists abuse physically, but most do, often in subtle, ...
www.geocities.com/zpg1957/narcissists.htm - Cached - Similar
tt
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I am new to the board. I was raised by 2 N parents and then married an N man. Professionally, I am a hospice social worker who specializes in providing grief and bereavement therapy, but in my personal life, nothing ever made sense. I have 5 other siblings and it was not until our father died in 2008 that we got together to really talk about our experiences and check out others perceptions. All of us suffer from anxiety and depression problems, 2 have had substance abuse problems, all of us have poor self-esteem, we're people pleasers and overachievers. The hardest thing I ever did was to seek out "truth" in my life by journaling facts, my perceptions of the event and then actually going into therapy to check my grasp on reality. It turned out to be the wisest thing I've ever done! I'm now in the process of divorcing abusive N. spouse, who still insists that "I'm exaggerating things to get attention and I have an overactive imagination." What I have, is a clear vision of reality and the fact that my life does not line up with what I know to be healthy. I finally feel like I have incorporated all that free-floating "stuff" into visceral feelings that have a name and a purpose. I feel like I'm waking up from a long coma and rediscovering life. The future looks promising, I grieve what I've lost but will not waste any more of my life trying to "understand" lies and manipulations.
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That article is SOOOOO depressing but so true. More than anything, I want a loving M. That has been my dream, always has been maybe always will be but that article KNOWS the NM.
That is how it is. YUCH! Ami
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Hi DOBA,
I feel like I'm waking up from a long coma and rediscovering life. The future looks promising, I grieve what I've lost but will not waste any more of my life trying to "understand" lies and manipulations.
Welcome to the board. :-)
I relate to all you have said, the coma, the rediscovering life, the future, and the grieving. Unearthing our own truth can be daunting and time consuming, but it's so much better than 'the before'! I like the determination I hear in your post! All the best to you!
tt
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I am new to the board. I was raised by 2 N parents and then married an N man. Professionally, I am a hospice social worker who specializes in providing grief and bereavement therapy, but in my personal life, nothing ever made sense. I have 5 other siblings and it was not until our father died in 2008 that we got together to really talk about our experiences and check out others perceptions. All of us suffer from anxiety and depression problems, 2 have had substance abuse problems, all of us have poor self-esteem, we're people pleasers and overachievers. The hardest thing I ever did was to seek out "truth" in my life by journaling facts, my perceptions of the event and then actually going into therapy to check my grasp on reality. It turned out to be the wisest thing I've ever done! I'm now in the process of divorcing abusive N. spouse, who still insists that "I'm exaggerating things to get attention and I have an overactive imagination." What I have, is a clear vision of reality and the fact that my life does not line up with what I know to be healthy. I finally feel like I have incorporated all that free-floating "stuff" into visceral feelings that have a name and a purpose. I feel like I'm waking up from a long coma and rediscovering life. The future looks promising, I grieve what I've lost but will not waste any more of my life trying to "understand" lies and manipulations.
Hello DOBA,
Truly, I do so resonate with your life story account.
Indeed, my professional life was "crystal clear" yet my personal life was "a muddy mystery"
The grieving is quite significant, though I was somewhat perplexed at the time upon hearing the suggestion presented to me as of "bereavement counselling," however, it was most beneficial, indeed, there is a real deep need to "grieve that which is lost" - there is a grieving process, as I realized thereafter.
I feel like I'm waking up from a long coma and rediscovering life. The future looks promising, I grieve what I've lost but will not waste any more of my life trying to "understand" lies and manipulations.
Absolutely! Waking up from a long coma and rediscovering life - YES! :)
In April 2008, I shared here on board of the veil lifting, having read "The Gaslight Effect - How to Spot and Survive the Hidden Manipulation Others Use to Control Your Life" by Dr. Robin Stern .
Along with other 'Gaslighting' information i.e. "Characteristics of Narcissistic Mothers" and "Eight Ways to Spot Emotional Manipulation"
Honestly, from that point onward, my life has been "altogether" different, joyful, and likewise, now, I refuse to waste my life trying to, as you so wonderfully express, "understand" abusive lies and manipulations.
Life is truly - much too short!
The others who choose to lie and manipulate, distort another person's reality, for whatever reason lies within their own heart, are, after all, living their life, as per their own motivational reasoning.
Today, my voice is that of; choose to break free and remain free : for a life!
Amazingly, my abusive Nparents simply fizzled away into the distance - as of their own choice : as a result of my brand new clear voice. (they know, I know!!)
The battle for reality is won.
And yes, the future is promising : a life worth living.
Sincerely,
Love to ((( all )))
Leah x
And, May God Bless You ((( all ))) [whom I give thanks to, with a grateful heart].