Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Hopalong on July 15, 2009, 10:21:47 PM
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...my brother has counteroffered, via a dishonest and distorted letter from his attorney.
I am remembering, mostly, to keep the emotion out of it.
He is asking for thousands more than I can afford and I need to make a decision (or, counter-counter) in the next few days.
I believe it will sort out in one way or another, and am working to stay rational and focused.
Tomorrow morning I meet with the conservator who will help me come up with numbers.
My math inability -- difficulty understanding how numbers relate to each other -- makes it a challenge.
But if I rise above the taunts (he demands access to the house to "inspect" the furnishings, etc.) -- and remember what is most important (the final number is what would have the greatest impact on my life long-term--it will determine whether I must work until I drop, have to have housemates forever, or perhaps not, etc.)--then perhaps I can yield on that (I don't have to be present and honestly don't care what things he wants).
Maybe if I do that, then I can insist on a better total.
At any rate, it will be what it will be.
His lawyer's letter painted my brother as the distressed victim. Unpalatable.
Anyway, all will be well. IF I can still qualify for financing. And IF the number is doable.
Wish me luck!
love,
Hops
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Ok - 1st of all - your brother's lawyer is PAID to paint your brother as a victim. But you and the court and all of us here know better. When you received the counter claim his demands jarred because they are outrageous and because if he were to win you would be in a very hard place. I want to encourage you to remember how terrifying his demands were on the last go round and how plausible it seemed that he might "win".
Yes it is possible but he is more transparent than he seems to you. You have lived a life time of his version being believed but he has reached the end of the road on that one. I do know that his assaults leave very real fears for you but I encourage you to take a deep breath and to stand outside of yourself and see that finally, he no longer has your mother to believe every lie and give life to them. He is on his own now. She gave him his power over you and with her death died that power.
I believe you will emerge stronger than you are presently anticipating and I encourage you to hold onto that belief. You have nothing to lose except fear. I will hold that courage and focus and caom for you over the next days and few weeks.
Thinking of you Hops - GS
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Ok, Hops.....
surely we're not surprised your brother:
crafted a letter that paints him distressed victim,
asks you pay more than you can afford.....
demands, once again, to invade your inner sanctum?
I know it's a shock every time it happens, but......
by now you know what to expect, (if you force yourself to think about it.)
The good news is..... the market has tanked and he can't expect to demand more than the market will bear, right?
If he forces a sale....... the house will likely sit on the market forever..... how would that benefit him, if at all?
I'm sending prayers and light.... please try to get some sleep and keep self care rituals in place.
Don't allow your brother's mean spirited attacks to upset you too much.
He's not allowed in the house, continue to say NO to his requests.
Write down your concerns on paper to discuss with conservator in the morning.
Tell him you have a list of questions you've taken the time to prepare.
Ask him if he would allow you to present them so you might go over them and discuss each item.
That way, you'll sound grounded and rational and prepared.
You don't want to sound scattered or on a rant, KWIM?
((((((((Hops)))))))))
Your brother's trying to rattle you.
Don't let him.
Mo2
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Oh...... to be an only child!!! (Are you laughing yet??)
Mo2's advice is where you need to get to.... but at the same time, you also have feelings that need to be addressed (don't I know it!!). What's useful for me is to set aside time for the feelings separate from dealing with the facts of the situation. Sort of make an appt with yourself, to look at the feelings - in all their gory detail - with the caveat that you must be able to address the facts of the situations sans intrusion of the emotional storm. Most of the time, it works for me.
By now, the conservator has your brother's "number". You don't have to explain him any more. I believe (I hope I'm right)... that you can simply reject his offer as unreasonable, without a counter-counter. Do you have a CURRENT appraisal of the property? That will be - or could be - another way to "prove" that he's way out of the ballpark. Appraisers have lowered their sights quite a bit lately.
I got some good news yesterday on progress on the estate tax return. The end is in sight. You WILL get through this too... and all will be well. Besides, I have an extremely hard time seeing you being anything OTHER than focussed and calm!
(((((((((((HOPS))))))))))))))
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I believe you will prevail, Hops. I have a good feeling about it. Sending you thoughts of peace. Ami
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Hi dear Hopsi, i am a very coward when fighting comes around. So, according to how I would feel I will ask you a question.
Have you set a limit of when will you stop and give up that? Do you want to spend the rest of your life fighting?
When I left my husband I let him keep everything we got. On top of it, I did not fight for child support because of the fear that he might get my son because he has rich family and I do not. I took the burden on my back despite that he abused my son. Now my son is friends with him. I hate the situation that my son appreciates more the monster abuser than me that I devoted my life to him. That is a consequence of not fighting. I regret not to have foght. My ex might be abusing his new baby and there is nothing I can do. i should have put him in prison. But I did not have the strenght.
If you keep fighting you might regret that you might spend all your life on that. If yoy give up, you might regret that you gave up.
Tough situation. My love to you.
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thank you so much everybody
what a thing, to be able to come here and here all these friends' voices
THANK YOU!
I really do feel okay.
I don't speak or write to him directly so that's not a problem...
I asked my lawyer to tell his lawyer that since he didn't respond for months I need more time to find out anew about financing, etc.
I am have a wee canny moment, I THINK.
The house contents (which I am NOT attached to) wouldn't fetch more than 5-6K at auction, the appraiser told me (and I long ago conveyed that to my brother's atty). BUT...in his fantasizing and mythologizing (and pathology)--in a way, when I think of it my brother is invested enough time and emotion in obsessing over who-gets-STUFF, as though the stuff is worth much more.
So perhaps I can yield on that (let him come over with his clipboard and all that--I will make myself absent so not have to deal with an encounter, but have an advocate there)--and by yielding on that, have a bargaining chip.
I think as part of my counter to his counter, I may tell him he can have it all (save sentimental things that have already been given me, as in many years ago, which I can document with photos of them in my previous homes) -- but only if it's all out of the house by X-Date (which removes his last possible pretext for trying to get in my space and control me) and if we settle then and there on a price for the settlement (all contingent on my being able to get financing).
That's the shape of what I'm considering.
I'm going to take a week--have asked a couple realtors for updated Price Opinions, am gathering additional info.
BTW, he also wants to dismiss the thousands I have as a claim upon the estate--nursing home bills, taxes, etc., that I paid for Mom out of my own checking.
A good and very helpful realization for me has been that it doesn't matter what a piece of the settlement is labeled, only what bottom line we come up with.
love and thanks for the support and observations,
Hops
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Hops...... sounds like you've found some calm.
Good.
I just want to add.....
if you give your brother thngs/everything from the house..... put stringent time lines on it with sa plan B should he fail to comply with pick up.
Putting things out on the curb or taking posession back if he abandones property after a certain date.... that type thing.
You know he'll twist and turn and set up pick ups then not show then complain you wouldn't let him in etc and on and on.
How can you be proactive and deal with that, up front?
I remember Changing's husband held her hostage that way for months and months. He brought the police to her house and they treated her like a criminal, made her throw down her cane like it was a weapon..... it was scary and awful but she couldn't figure out how to stop it.
You aren't a victim.
Ask your attorney how to best handle it and don't let him shrug you off, should you need a plan B.
Mo2
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Hops... something bothers me about your plan. With "normal" folk, the bargaining chip technique might have a very good chance of succeeding. But something tells me, if you give an inch... he'll try to take a mile. His intent from everything you've described is to make you as miserable and uncomfortable as possible... and he feigns interest in the house & contents for exactly that reason. I doubt it would stop there.
Maybe that's what Mo2 just said. I second her suggestion of having a "Plan B"... and maybe a Plan C, too.
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I agree w/ PR. My initial reaction was to suggest you have a hard counter and then "negotiate" to your suggestion of the things from the house as though he had worn you down and "won." He isn't interested in the stuff but in winning or perhaps beating you as in making you suffer. Let him think you are suffering when you give him something. Let him think he is winning against your desires. That is what he wants. Think about it and trust your gut.
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I think you're all three right, and very smart.
Yes, I think I'll show respect for his intensity about the stuff, and likely just say, you may take all of it that you want. It must be out of the house by prearranged X date. (Plan B will be that it goes into storage under contract in your name.) But my price for the house is X and that does include being reimbursed for the thousands I spent on Mom in just the last 2 years.
We'll see how it flies. I am getting (sympathetic) realtors' price opinion letters gatherd, and going to talk to banks about whether I might get a mortgage once we have the agreement signed.
I feel a sense of the ending being near. Hope it's true!
love,
Hops
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I second that hope that all this comes to closure, Hops...
would that it does for all who are wrangling with these situations...
... and that we live "happily ever after"!!!
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hear, hear!
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Hops, after you back out your mother's expenses over the last 2 yiears.....
how far off fair market value is your brother's offer?
Is he asking a crazy high price? and....
what are your options?
Does the conservator have any say in this?
What power do they have and what is their position?
::crossing fingers and hoping for a quick fair resolution::
Mo2
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M02, we're within a couple of tens of thousands of striking distance.
Thing is, on my income, that amount makes a large difference. I am fighting to keep my 30 years of monthly payments as low as possible, given that I'll wind up on little more than social security and I have to be able to afford it. I will not set myself up for being here only to go into foreclosure.
The conservator's powers excluded, according to the court order, the power to sell the house.
So it hinges on agreement and then afterward either, my brother and I sign up to co-executor anyway since we have a signed binding agreement so there would be nothing to battle about, or...we have to petition the court for a 3rd-party executor.
My options are to buy it if I can get him to settle on a price I can afford. Or to give up and continue in limbo forever while it sits here, unsold.
He really is not in a great position, depends how insanely vindictive he wants to be...
Because if he fights for so much money that I can't do it, then the house has to be sold on the open market, and that could take years. Not to mention it would also take some of HIS money to maintain it until then--and I would be the one who would have to keep it pretty for buyers and allow it to be shown at convenient times, etc (which I am not at all motivated to do).
The danger would be if he really wants access and then would try to dominate me and be "in charge" of getting it ready for sale, which would make my life miserable indefinitely. And I will not permit that.
Fortunately, my attorney stated to the judge "My client is afraid of her brother" and there is a police report on file (I called when he was "stalking" me with his truck and asked for increased patrols) -- so it is unlikely a judge would order that I have to allow my brother to come and go.
We need to settle. It's to the estate's advantage that I am in the house, ready to buy, and no real estate fees would be involved. So my brother needs to back off and back down. We'll find out.
I will compromise, but not past the point where I can live a decent life. And if we have to take it to court, my attorney and I are both confident I would win. It's just stupid to go through the expense and delay of all that.
But I will if I have to.
thanks,
Hops
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He really is not in a great position, depends how insanely vindictive he wants to be...
You are being very logical but beware that vindictiveness. It is a power that lurks deep within.
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I will compromise, but not past the point where I can live a decent life. And if we have to take it to court, my attorney and I are both confident I would win. It's just stupid to go through the expense and delay of all that.
Do not let him know this. As crazy as this sounds. Let him think you are suffering with the "compromise" and let him think he has "won" a victory over you that causes you pain. That would soothe his vindictiveness and push toward a quicker solution.
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Absolutely, I agree, GS--.
1) Never forget the vindictiveness
2) Try to make any compromises appear major concessions
xo
Hops
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Great point GS!
Wishing you the best, Hops. You will prevail!
ox seasons
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Whatever you do, Hops.....
make sure you have plan B and C enforcable and in writing.
Give him X Y and Z but.....
make sure you're covered when he jumps sideways, and you know he will.
Broken promises and agreements are on the way.....
how can you head him off?
Black and white.
Enforcable and something you can live with.
Mo2
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I'm glad you're ready to stand your ground, Hops.
Not afraid and living in despair, but prepared to go through the process.
Yes.
Mud said it.... you have to stand up, there's no choice, so you do it.
About your brother's offer..... is it close to the current estimated value or above? Below?
I didn't see anything in your post about how far off he is.
Mo2
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Hi Mo2,
He's asking $20K more than I can afford (based on current tax assessment, which I offered 20% lower than for multiple reaons: 1) that's what's moving in this market now, 2) the house is in unretouched 1965 shabby condition and needs major upgrades, 3) comparables are not in this kind of repair, 4) my offer allows it to be transferred directly without realtors' costs to the estate.
At the same time he said my $20K claims against the estate are invalid. (The conservator already turned in to the court her report that emphatically stated I should be repaid for the multiple checks I wrote to the nursing home, for her caregivers, her real estate taxes...). She stated that I "left myself considerably in debt and this should be settled from the estate."
I know a judge would take her report as responsible and enforce it. But...having to go back to court to achieve that may involve:
--a court-ordered appraisal of the house coming in too high for me
--all the lawyers' new fees (but my atty. has already said that they will ask the court to have my brother, not the estate, be responsible for the costs of any new litigation)
So I'm meeting with my advisors to figure out what I can actually afford, and that's what I'll counter. The only thing I can put in play that may assuage his obsession with the stuff in the house if to surprise him by saying, take anything you want. I already have sentimental items and a few other things marked for me. Take it all, I don't care. And then not budge on the price.
But if he does that, it will be with me absent, and with someone representing me present, and that will be the last time he visits this house.
Hops
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Hops,
I may have missed it, but, have you obtained an appraisal?
Assuming that your price is within ballpark of the appraised value, I think it sounds like you're in good shape. The extra $20K he's asking can be offset by your claims against the estate & the conservator agrees. In fact, I wonder if he's asking for the extra $20K so that he will not have to reimburse you for the $ you spent of the nursing home, caregivers & RE tax.
Stick to your guns, it's a bad RE market for sellers & I think your 4 reasons are good. However, let's assume that the court agrees with your brother's price: If that occurs, ask to pay it out over time, instead of a lump sum.
Sounds like the court & conservator are sympathetic to you. Please keep in mind that, generally, courts do not want to put people out of their homes, especially in this economy. Make sure that you make it very clear to the court that you love the house & want to stay & that you are on a very, very tight budget. It's very important that you maintain the sympathies of the conservator & the court.
I'm sure you know not to communicate directly with your brother re: the contents of the house. All communication should be thru your atty.
On Edit: I see you're basing your price based on current tax assessmsnt. Tax assessment is not always an indicator of market value becasue some municipalities use funky formulas to calculate value for tax assessments. An appraisal is probably the way to go. Have you spoken to your atty about this?
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Hops:
I pray that your brother will be held responsible for adding time and legal expenses to a situation he's caused and continues to drag out.
::picturing Hops twirling happily in her garden, after all this passes::
And it will pass ((Hops.))
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Hi Ann,
I've gotten "price opinions" from a few local realtors, not formal appraisals. (Perhaps I should, but I'm afraid a formal appraisal might favor him--but it may be necessary to make the court happy, if we have to go that far).
I may have to compromise more than I want to. All I'm worried about is compromising more than I CAN, so I'm getting guidance. An accounting-savvy friend is helping me do a financial forecast so I can easily see what I can afford. It may come down to whether I'll have to have housemates for the rest of my life in order to keep my home. Right now, it's not bothering me, I kind of enjoy them, but it could get old. I have a friend who does that...rents out part of her home, and she finds it a very satisfying solution.
It's looking as though what I'd have to pay monthly to stay would be about the same as what I'd pay for a decent apartment, nothing fancy, but not bleak--say a modest 2 BR. So, since I have a strong attachment to the place and a child I'd like to leave it to (or the value of it to) one day, I think it's a battle worth fighting, at least now.
If I should leave the place, I'd rather do it on my own terms.
But I figure, it doesn't matter if we call it "repaying her $20K she spent on her mother's care, etc." or him getting approximately that much less. So if to make him feel he's won a point I let go of my claims, that's fine (but only if the price to me comes down very close to the same amount).
I have a feeling whatever will allow him to save face, in some way, would help.
And I have no intention whatsoever of communicating with him directly. I have no trust at all in him and never will. He has destroyed any possibility of a future sibling relationship, and after (oddly) some low-level grief for a while, all I feel about it now is clarity and relief. He's pretty monstrous, and dishonest to the core.
M02, thanks for the vision, I hope it comes true too!
Thanks everyone, this is so very helpful,
Hops
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Hops, in this market it's probable and likely that any appraisal will be low - and in your favor. Especially, as you you describe the property being in need of both cosmetic and substantial repair/updating. In fact, this new trend among appraisers is driving some people nuts as they try to refinance! But this is one time, that the house's condition should work in your favor. An appraisal may cost a few hundred dollars... but the value of it - especially, if you have to go court - will be 10 times that.
Where you live, might have some influence on the properties value - proximity to the uni, etc. I know that our property has dropped by a least a third of the last appraised value (in 2005). Tax assessment also dropped. Our house is also pretty "dated"; a 70's ranch that hasn't been "prettied up" for today's taste. It suits us... but wouldn't be a "hot item" on the market because we've left it pretty much "as is". Our only saving grace, is the fact that our land is almost a half an acre - within the city limits -
and that we have a supersized garage.
Wouldn't hurt to find out how much an appraisal cost...
Other than that - you're as calm & focussed as ever! Your plan looks solid and air tight. :D Good to see you being beyond the evil B's attempts to push your panic buttons.
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Sending you love..
You may find this calming..I'm sure it works.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_
Best of luck
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Intrinsic Mothering--
Can you repost that link? I just got a big page of multiple videos, not sure which one you were directing me to...
thanks!
Hops
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Hi hopalong,
here's the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phL0RLKL8bc&feature=related
But if not try
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b1GKGWJbE8&NR=1
WE ARE INCREDIBLE PEOPLE WITH STRENGTHS WE CAN ACCESS WHEN NEEDED. definition of incurable..curable from within!
MEGA HUGS
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Intrinsic,
Thank you for your kind wishes, I appreciate it.
Hops
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Hops......
it sounds like getting a formal appraisal would be worth the investment.
Ask your realtors for names of companies they have ties with and check it out.
Mo2
::wishing for an update from the garden::
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Yup, talked to my lawyer and together decided a formal appraisal is the right thing to do.
I can base my counteroffer on reality, not wishes, and in fact, the reality may favor me.
The appraiser was here this morning and was SUCH a nice man.
Asked me for more info, told me it is quite "dated" and made careful notes of all the things that lower its value.
At one point I'd retreated to my room to stay out of his way and heard my dog at the door, and since she (daffy old thing) had snarled at him when he first arrived, I said to her "Hi there sweetie, are you going to be good?"
And the appraiser walked in and said "Well I'm going to try to be good" and we shared a nice laugh. He also talked some about his own elderly mother and when he left, he said, "I'm going to do all I can to help you," and he was so kind I teared up.
I am sure he is principled and ethical and will appraise it honestly, and he may have been trying to remind me "I can only do what I CAN"--but I have a feeling that where there's a legitimate subjective interpretation that could go either higher or lower, he might choose lower.
We'll see. I'm glad I've done it either way, since moving forward will be reality based. May know by Friday.
I hope we don't have to drag on to another court session, but if we do, I'll be standing up straight.
xo
Hops
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Wow, Hops.
You got right on that appraisal....
good for you.
Seems you'll get the most favorable number possible, under the circumstances.
Your brother will likely be dragging through at least one more court hearing.
You'll be ready for it.
Mo2