Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Ami on August 25, 2009, 04:28:51 PM
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I thought when I was an adult, I would know what I was doing. As a child I thought that if I ONLY got away from my NM ,I would be OK. If I could have kept my mind, I would have fit in the world, I think.
However, I fell in to the hole of distortions and distortions until I had NO idea what was real and what was pollution. I keep asking,"Is it real?"
Then, I try to open the eyes in my gut and see.
I think I am getting emotionally healthier. I know I am .
However, it goes really slowly and really, really hurts. Ami
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These feelings of grief are unbelievable. I only have Alice Miller's truth to go by, sometimes. She says you MUST feel the repressed feelings. You must bring them out in to the light and feel them.
Under them are the insights and with the insights, you can get true change.
Ami
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You know, Ami, I still don't feel like an adult. When I was a child, my NM tried to keep me perpetually eight years old. If I grew up, she would lose control. So as I became older, going into high school, I was required to still behave like a child. I had to address all adults as Mr. or Mrs., Sir or Madame. NO adults were to be called by their first name, even if they were friends who asked not to be called Sir. She tried to keep me in children's clothing. She cut my hair like a little kid, with shortie bangs. If I resisted, the punishment was swift. I finally got a part time job and bought my own clothes, and would change so as not to be ridiculed at school. She kept me sheltered from current events, and would only allow me to watch "family" television programs. On Saturday mornings, she would change the channel to cartoons. The only records I was allowed to listen to were Disney soundtracks and such.
When I left home, I was physically 18, but emotionally 12. I got a good job at a radio station, and addressed all of my co-workers by their titles, not their names. I didn't know how to interact with them like peers. This hangs with me to this day. If my doctor tells me to call her by her first name, I'm horribly uncomfortable with it. I always call my veterinarian Dr. Jones, and she keeps telling me to call her Karen, but I can't. I feel weird and uncomfortable. Your childhood is the time when attitudes and behaviors are formed, and parental brainwashing is all too easy. I feel that I'm just now learning to be an adult. It took going NC to reach that point. When I still had contact with my M, she continued to chastise me for adult behavior. I needed to get away from her before I could begin the process of maturing. I only wish I had done it sooner.
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Dear (((Kathy)))
Inside me is the terrified girl screaming. Does that make me "bad"? I HAVE that terrified part inside.It was what was done to me.
*I* was not inherently "bad".
Alice Miller says you must see the monster (NM)as it was .All children have empathy for the abusive parent and NOT themselves . She says when you can see the parent and that you were NOT loved , then you can have empathy for yourself.
xxoo Ami
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She says you MUST feel the repressed feelings. You must bring them out in to the light and feel them.
Under them are the insights and with the insights, you can get true change.
Ami
This is huge. Ami -- what you wrote about above is and has been my "way." Although I falter at times, run in addictions, run in lashing out in anger, run in attempts to master the pain in ways that are harmful to self and others; for the most part, through the years, re-experiencing the repressed traumas/tears/stabbing pain of childhood, just pure bloody hurting, is a part of my life as an adult. It is the cross and what Christ, part of what he meant when He was showing us the way, was showing us in suffering. Contemplating His cross when I hurt and shed the tears from the depths of my belly is my way out of childhood and into full adulthood. It is taking responsibility for my part, how I handle the crosses of life that we are all given. As children we were innocent, as adults we are not innocent if we repeat our trauma, or act them out on others. This has been the most important lesson of my life.
Today is what I call a "cross" day; my wounds are bleeding, I am just letting them bleed and tears flow as I try my hardest to remember that is by Jesus blood that my soul is washed and beautified, made clean by His wounds.
Recall - Jesus was nailed to a cross, unable to go anywhere and completely opened up, hung up arms spread out wide for all to see -- humiliation. He had no where to go except death. When I allow myself the stabbing pain and tears that is what is happening in my soul, a death of old self -- so that the new self, a mature adult will be here--more fully alive along with the emerging spirit of my innerchild, the true self -- freedom from self, freedom from ego.
Love,
Lise
The cross is beautiful, if not, then why would we hold it up, treasure it around our necks, embrace it as the greatest symbol love?
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Oh (((Lise)))
I am SO glad you got it. I was going to take off my thread b/c I felt stupid. I felt dumb and complaining. Thanks for being my friend.
xxxxoooo Ami
PS If I NEVER get better in this life, I am saved and that is more than enough!
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You know what I have been thinking lately? That the work of eternity is for us to get better and better (and healthier and healthier). It boggles the mind, but I hold tight to my faith in an afterlife ... I plan on continuing to heal in this life too, but it comforts me to think that whatever I don't get finished this side of eternity, I can still work on it after! I especially like the work of C.S. Lewis when I'm in a mode of thinking about such things. The Last Battle (the last of the Narnia series) is very comforting, and I even found comfort in The Great Divorce (which others might not find comforting at all). My comfort came in thinking that we will continue to grow and discover new insights in the next life. I'm not rushing to get to the next life, mind you!
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Dear Heart
Your post really touched me. Your plan for life is my plan,too. You expressed it so well. I think that I canheal but it was my pain (NM)which me brought me to eternal life. I am Jewish so it was that much harder.
I think I will have complete healing to be emotionally healthy.
I think it will be a slow process in God's time .
Eternal life is really the goal of this life for people who believe as we do and so it helps to put all else in its proper persepective.
Thanks so much for your post. It really helped me. xxooo Ami
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I thought when I was an adult, I would know what I was doing. As a child I thought that if I ONLY got away from my NM ,I would be OK. If I could have kept my mind, I would have fit in the world, I think.
However, I fell in to the hole of distortions and distortions until I had NO idea what was real and what was pollution. I keep asking,"Is it real?"
Then, I try to open the eyes in my gut and see.
I think I am getting emotionally healthier. I know I am .
However, it goes really slowly and really, really hurts. Ami
I've felt the same way Ami. When I was a child I sooo looked forward to getting away from the FOO. But then when I did get away it felt like I had never been given what I needed to make adult life work. It seemed most everybody else had something I didn't have and was able to progress in adult life while I was just flailing around lost. I ran around for 20 or so years trying to find the secret formula, something outside myself to make me feel halfway right about life. Now I realize the answer was within all along. Not that this makes life easy, but things seem to be getting lighter, most of the time at least.
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You know what I have been thinking lately? That the work of eternity is for us to get better and better (and healthier and healthier). It boggles the mind, but I hold tight to my faith in an afterlife ... I plan on continuing to heal in this life too, but it comforts me to think that whatever I don't get finished this side of eternity, I can still work on it after! I especially like the work of C.S. Lewis when I'm in a mode of thinking about such things. The Last Battle (the last of the Narnia series) is very comforting, and I even found comfort in The Great Divorce (which others might not find comforting at all). My comfort came in thinking that we will continue to grow and discover new insights in the next life. I'm not rushing to get to the next life, mind you!
HofP,
When I read this above what came to mind was a book called The Mist of Mercy. this book as some beautiful visions detailed from a Catholic mystic named Anne. She writes about souls who have passed from this world into the next, the souls continued healing after death as well as their learning, that never ceases, even in enternity, where only time ceases.
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Gabben, Thanks for the tip about the Mist of Mercy ... I will see if I can find this work.
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Hi Ami,
I also thought that when I got away from my FOO I would be in control of my life and that I would never let any person hurt me again. When I left home it was a spur of the moment reaction to my overload of frustration, I didn't know where I was going.
For a few days I stayed at a friend's house. Then I lived in some campus housing at school, then I dropped out of school and got a job that barely paid the bills... And I guess I've been struggling ever since.
When I moved away from home it was a culmination of rejection from my mother. My heart was broken. That was the first time I had a broken heart. Of course I've since had broken hearts from guys but those were a piece of cake- sort of.
The feelings of grief are unbelievable.. I experienced this also. That is why I feel like there are 1,000 mourning old widows inside of my soul.
Yep, I had to take sleeping pills after I felt my first spell of grief. My body wasn't functioning correctly the grief gave me so much anxiety.
I popped out of my body, I don't know how far, not a total out of body experience but definitely it was too scary for my consciousness to stay in my body so my consciousness became herniated. I was floating. Soooo scary. That was the most frightening time in my life ever I think.
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Oh Yeah Helen
The original and worst broken heart is the Mother :( Ami
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Hi Helen,
I used to say that I came out of the womb sad. It was true. I could never remember a single moment when I didn't fee sadness. When my dad passed away, I grieved. That is when I understood that what I'd called sadness all those years was really grief.
Heartof Pilgrimage suggested John Bowlby's work to me concerning the issue of children & the development of their character on the How's a Child to Know? In this piece, the grieving/mourning child is talked about. It's the first time in my experience that I've seen it talked about. Here's a link to what I've read so far: http://www.psychology.sunysb.edu/attachment/online/inge_origins.pdf
Bowlby also, advocated starting at the beginning (infancy) and working forward. I think he thought this was the best way to approach clinical research. Most of us here seem to do the opposite, which is start in the moment of deepest pain and work backwards. I don't have an opinion about which is the best way, and I'm not sure that the starting place for healing of the typical person who tells their story here, can be that precise anyway. Then I got to thinking that if I'd started at the beginning to unravel and understand the pain I was in, the process would have had to begin in the womb because I came out of the womb grieving. So let's just suppose that the clinician/therapist begins their observations of a fresh out of the womb baby, but the baby came out of the womb grieving, then what direction would the therapy, clinical observations need to take? So there's my puzzler of the day!
Bowlby writes about attachment. I haven't read it all, but I like reading his work and about him. I'm finding it helpful.
tt
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One of my pet peeves with my NM- and it may not be related to N at all is that growing up I was often told "you're too young for that". Its a common occurrence right? But here the rub, when I did get old enough for it, it wasn't easier and or was not what I expected and I'm troubled by that outcome. I don;t know if its related to N or just false expectations, but I keep thinking when I grow up, it will be different (I'm 41, btw) and its not! Does that resonate with anyone?
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Hi Ami,
I also thought that when I got away from my FOO I would be in control of my life and that I would never let any person hurt me again. When I left home it was a spur of the moment reaction to my overload of frustration, I didn't know where I was going.
For a few days I stayed at a friend's house. Then I lived in some campus housing at school, then I dropped out of school and got a job that barely paid the bills... And I guess I've been struggling ever since.
When I moved away from home it was a culmination of rejection from my mother. My heart was broken. That was the first time I had a broken heart. Of course I've since had broken hearts from guys but those were a piece of cake- sort of.
The feelings of grief are unbelievable.. I experienced this also. That is why I feel like there are 1,000 mourning old widows inside of my soul.
Yep, I had to take sleeping pills after I felt my first spell of grief. My body wasn't functioning correctly the grief gave me so much anxiety.
I popped out of my body, I don't know how far, not a total out of body experience but definitely it was too scary for my consciousness to stay in my body so my consciousness became herniated. I was floating. Soooo scary. That was the most frightening time in my life ever I think.
1000 mourning old widows in my soul. THAT says it! Ami
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Sometimes making grown-up decisions is SCARY as HECK!!!!! :shock:
This may sound weird but when I was in the process of buying a condo and preparing to move out of the apartment I was living in, (I was pushing 50 by this point), I felt like I NEEDED TO ASK SOMEONE PERMISSION TO MAKE THIS DECISION!!!! :shock: Otherwise, I felt like I was evil or something! Then I started analyzing what that was about and WHERE it was coming from! (I did not know about being a survivor of N's at this point so NOTHING I was feeling was making any sense!) Does that make sense now?
Bones
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Oh yes, thats my truth, too. In fact, I have this "learned helplessness" down to the point where I've had life long panic attacks. I fear constantly what others think of me and I'm always thinking others are "thinking" I'm not good enough. I've been no contact for 4 months now and I just pray that I get some relief soon. It willl be a slow process since I've felt like this for so long ... I'm 43 btw. I do though .. I don't feel like a "grown up". I feel like an imposter in the real world, totally NOT KNOWING what I'm doing. Like other people have the secrets but I missed the class! lol
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Oh yes, thats my truth, too. In fact, I have this "learned helplessness" down to the point where I've had life long panic attacks. I fear constantly what others think of me and I'm always thinking others are "thinking" I'm not good enough. I've been no contact for 4 months now and I just pray that I get some relief soon. It willl be a slow process since I've felt like this for so long ... I'm 43 btw. I do though .. I don't feel like a "grown up". I feel like an imposter in the real world, totally NOT KNOWING what I'm doing. Like other people have the secrets but I missed the class! lol
Newfound: I'm 42 and this is so me! I missed the class. Everyone knows stuff and they are all on it! They are all AHEAD of me and I'm just following along trying to keep up with the Joneses. I don't feel grown up but I feel old. I feel worn out emotionally, like someone already took what I needed away and now I'm scrambling to find some way of thinking that will work out for me...and it's taking too long. I feel like I'm waiting for some big answer or something. Like someday I'll wake up and go "Oooohhhh, that's what that was all for!" Then I'll leave this shell of anger and hurt and move into another one of peace and happiness and wealth" Like a Hermit crab!
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I like the hermit crab thought!!
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Oh yes, thats my truth, too. In fact, I have this "learned helplessness" down to the point where I've had life long panic attacks. I fear constantly what others think of me and I'm always thinking others are "thinking" I'm not good enough. I've been no contact for 4 months now and I just pray that I get some relief soon. It willl be a slow process since I've felt like this for so long ... I'm 43 btw. I do though .. I don't feel like a "grown up". I feel like an imposter in the real world, totally NOT KNOWING what I'm doing. Like other people have the secrets but I missed the class! lol
I get it about feeling like I "missed the class"! What complicated things, at the time I was preparing to move to my condo, was dealing with a HOARDING N who was throwing a temper tantrum!
Bones
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Dear Newfoundchildhood,
My own personal "aha" moment came when I realized that in my family, people were expected to read minds. If you could not read minds, you had committed a sin. So I went around trying to read other people's minds --- and in the process, tended to assume they were thinking negative thoughts about me or about what I had just said or done. (Because, of course, in the FOO, you would get blasted for your behavior and for not KNOWING better even though KNOWING would have required being a psychic).
I had another "aha" moment when I realized my mother did not know what the heck she thinks about anything. So even if I were psychic, I couldn't read her mind because she would be just as likely to change her mind in mid-thought as anything. She can flip-flop from one opinion to the opposite in the blink of an eye. This was a terrific insight because ... you will never be good enough because there is no set standard. The standard moves around all over the place. And you will always be faulted for not being able to predict where the standard will show up next.
So ... what I did (and still do, I'm not totally over the knee-jerk reaction to try to read other people's minds) ... is always, always ask myself, "So, why do you think he/she thinks that? Why do you think he/she had that reaction to what you said/did? Is it their facial expression? Their body language? Their words? Or is it just because you feel embarrassed and assume that the other person 'must' be thinking bad thoughts about you?" I have found that sometimes when I was berating myself, the other person hadn't even heard what I said or seen what I'd done! They had had NO reaction to what I said/did because they didn't know about it! Yet I was castigating myself because they thought badly of me!
Of course, the next step is to learn to evaluate what I say and do according to my own standards, not whether or not somebody had a bad reaction to it (even if that reaction is real!). That's hard. But the very first step is beginning to recognize when you have no way of knowing WHAT the other person is thinking, and recognize when your prediction that they are critical comes from your past, not from what is happening in the present.
I actually think this process I have described in my post has been the most healing of all of the things I have done.
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Dear Newfoundchildhood,
My own personal "aha" moment came when I realized that in my family, people were expected to read minds. If you could not read minds, you had committed a sin. So I went around trying to read other people's minds --- and in the process, tended to assume they were thinking negative thoughts about me or about what I had just said or done. (Because, of course, in the FOO, you would get blasted for your behavior and for not KNOWING better even though KNOWING would have required being a psychic).
I had another "aha" moment when I realized my mother did not know what the heck she thinks about anything. So even if I were psychic, I couldn't read her mind because she would be just as likely to change her mind in mid-thought as anything. She can flip-flop from one opinion to the opposite in the blink of an eye. This was a terrific insight because ... you will never be good enough because there is no set standard. The standard moves around all over the place. And you will always be faulted for not being able to predict where the standard will show up next.
So ... what I did (and still do, I'm not totally over the knee-jerk reaction to try to read other people's minds) ... is always, always ask myself, "So, why do you think he/she thinks that? Why do you think he/she had that reaction to what you said/did? Is it their facial expression? Their body language? Their words? Or is it just because you feel embarrassed and assume that the other person 'must' be thinking bad thoughts about you?" I have found that sometimes when I was berating myself, the other person hadn't even heard what I said or seen what I'd done! They had had NO reaction to what I said/did because they didn't know about it! Yet I was castigating myself because they thought badly of me!
Of course, the next step is to learn to evaluate what I say and do according to my own standards, not whether or not somebody had a bad reaction to it (even if that reaction is real!). That's hard. But the very first step is beginning to recognize when you have no way of knowing WHAT the other person is thinking, and recognize when your prediction that they are critical comes from your past, not from what is happening in the present.
I actually think this process I have described in my post has been the most healing of all of the things I have done.
BRILLIANT! xxxxooo Ami
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\That's hard. But the very first step is beginning to recognize when you have no way of knowing WHAT the other person is thinking, and recognize when your prediction that they are critical comes from your past, not from what is happening in the present.
Did you ever see that bumper sticker that says "My Therapist took away my mind reading powers." Something like that.