Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Hopalong on September 02, 2009, 05:10:03 PM
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Since my mother, her graNdmother, died at the end of March and she took Incompletes, she got derailed from finishing her degree. She has a part-time job tutoring, and they like her a lot. But it's just a few hours a week. Meanwhile, she moved into a shared house with a nice adult (an older man, a social worker, who's rarely there -- either with his lady friend or visiting his grandkids). The rent's half what she was paying on her own so that's good.
BUT. Her old car just had a car-thrombosis and is unrepairable. I've put my inner foot down telling myself I CANNOT bail her out any more, and she hasn't asked.
I know, and feel, and can hear, that she's desperate.
She's down to her last 4 weeks of funds. She has to decide either to rent a UHaul and come home to live with me for a while and get a job here, just to survive...or god knows what.
I can tell she's scared. It's a huge city and she has no network, as her university was a big commuter school and all her classes were at night....she just doesn't have a community there.
I am worried sick about her. She's struggling very hard and only reports: I'm in trouble, I have no resources, nothing's changed...and I know she's telling the truth.
I am afraid that if I take a loan or send her money it will disappear and she won't make any sensible decision. I truly can't afford to buy her a car. I'm still paying for my $1800 car a friend sold me, at the rate of $100 per month -- and I may have to apply for the mortgage any week now.
I know I'm "right" to be not bailing her out, but it's killing me.
What I'm really scared about is whether she'll do something reckless or desperate and really slip off the rails.
Just wanted to vent about it.
Don't know what to do.
love,
Hops
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Hey Hops,
I was in a similar situation with my older S. He lived on his own since 19. He did well and with the Eco hitting hard he was falling behind. He got himself into debt and his roomie (same thing) was moving home. He had choice it's not that he did not have one and that was come home. He gave me hard time and I understood it is hard to come home being an adult (young or not) but he did have option.
He thought about it and was against it...I'll find another roomate..(I'm not in a position to help like he needed either) and some of his butt head idea's were his own fault but he was pretty responsible all in all..just young. Knock yourself out kid welcome to the Real World you have choice.
He was coming home rent free..everything free..with exception of his own bills and I make him pay his cell since he is on my plan.
Save up, pay off, get yourself back in shape then move out.
No...Can't do that...I'm a man (kind of thing) ...All righty then...Good Luck...
He come home.
Before he came home his car was down and he used mine. He blew my engine (not totally his fault) it was an old girl and I expected that would happen.
Fixed his car and he totalled it in the rain. Now down two cars. I told him I would buy myself a car and he can use it till he gets himself on track (all the time) but he will pay the loan until it comes back. Not good enough.
Buy his own one that is affordable but not up to what he wants...Alright then don't drive.
He will miss school and not graduate in Dec if he don't have a car...
Don't know what to tell you buddy...You have options...
He'll move to Fla ..Ok bye....I understand.
He is here and looking for a car he can afford...his choice...
Now yes Hops I do worry also and they might just slip off the rails but that is Truly Thier Choice....let them make it.
And it kills me too...
but they do have choices.
As I did when I was that young..ones I didn't want..but choices were there and I went Home with two Kids...29 years old.
There is help from parents and sometimes that is about the best we can do and it worked out for the best for me.. Got myself in shape, less bills, went back to school, and paid very little to my parents..(they didn't want anything) but I had more from being able to change my circumstances and go home. I bought all the food, paid the phone, gave 200 a month because I lived there.
Thank God I had that Break...although I didn't know it then...too bad my parents didn't...I can't imagine your kid coming home with their own kids...
Mine are all home again .. paying off what they need to pay off with a much more relaxed Grown Up way to Save, pay off, and Save.....and Learned a Lesson.
As I did.
Hindsight is an amazing thing. I had my parents to count on all my life and into my 20'
Then I hit a *rock* and my parents realized we didn't make her responsible with her finances and pulled the rug from my feet but didn't leave me out there ...Gave me and option...Come home....Get it together ....or Good Luck.
Your not bailing her out your giving her a solution......
She needs to grab on to it. Or make it on her own...
I know hops it's a worry....I hear ya...
Love
Deb
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Hey, sorry to hear about the stress and worry Hops, I've got no idea what resources are in your daughter's city. I've seen adds for low income people that provide oldy-but goody cars super cheap, along with other things like free computers. Computer charity is what they call it. Some places have the same thing for cars.
The important thing is that she is safe.
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Hops....
I'm so sorry your daughter's struggling.
An old saying comes to mind....
"Give them roots, and give them wings."
She needs to be able to make it on her own....
and know there's safe place to land, if she needs it.
Deb gave some very good advice, IMO.
Mo2
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Hopalong,
I teach at the college level. We all want to go to school at our favorite places but sometimes that is just not a doable. I don't know what degree program your daughter is interested in, but it sounds like she needs to transfer to an affordable school in livable city that has public transportation.
Coming home to a community college (much cheaper) or a local university is no longer shameful. It is what most people are doing. Many students are now electing to complete a short term program leading to an immediate job so they can afford to complete the degree they want at night. A lot of nursing students are getting certified as EMT's or Sugical Techs so they can work their way through college.
S
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Thanks, Deb. Knowing you weathered it strengthens my spine.
I do need to let her choose and own her choice.
Thanks, M02, for the wise reminder. Wings. It's about wings. (Not wheels...)
Helen, Sealynx, appreciate the thoughts. She's not lacking for a grasp of resources, she's just in an emotional place where I'm worried about her capacity to organize herself and take advantage of them.
But I'm breathing again.
Venting here has really helped, as always.
xo
Hops
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Hops, I'm glad you can breath again.
So much easier to think.
Remember, if your daughter comes up with plans you can't agree with....
you can always respond:
"Let me know how that works out for you."
She'll choose more carefully if she feels you're no longer controlling and saving her from her decisions.
Seal's ideas comforted me......
I'd feel better if your d was living with you, going to community college and using public transportation to motor around in a small familiar town.
Mo2
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Hi Motherof2,
Even the president is talking about spending educational funds at the Community College level because most of the current jobs require two year as opposed to four year degrees. Especially in the medical field (nursing, radiology tech, LPN, Respiratory therapy, PT assist) the jobs often required two year degrees. Aside from engineering and K-12 education, the average 4 year degree is not translating directly to a job. It is good to have but does not fit with openings. MBA's used to command huge salaries right out of school. That is no longer true.
I recommend that anyone starting college take a good look at the U.S occupational handbook which forecasts current and future trends in employment. Here is a link.
http://www.bls.gov/OCO/
Not only do I recommend that students look at this before deciding on a major, but keep it handy since most kids starting out today will have several jobs due to changes in technology and market shift.
S
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Hops,
Glad you are feeling better. Its tough to grow up in this world, but they are usually more resilient than we are. Good luck with this transitional period in your lives.
S
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Thanks, all.
She's 28. Nearrrrrrrrrrrly finished her very last class for her M.S. (I'm not sure and she's not saying).
But if she did get it, her hope (or at least her hope six months ago) is to teach, then in a year or two, get a PhD.
Hops
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Thinking about you Hops. It sounds scary and frustrating to not be able to help and to not know whether it is a good idea if you could. But the thing I hear the loudest is that you are concerned about her emotional state. That is the most important of all isn't it? I know things between the two of you has been up and down but because finances are fragile for both of you perhaps what you can offer her is that motherly caring, the figurative lap to crawl up in and big hug. When I was 28 and struggling, it would have meant the world just to have heard from a parent that they knew I was struggling and that they cared.
Just a thought - love to you - GS
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hi hops
I hope all works out well for your daughter and you. Are we the only two with one child, a girl, who causes us stress, rashes and the urge to rob a bank? Naw! Kidding there.
This is just a reading for you....no advice!
The girl to whom I gave birth is now a NC of mine. I was able to give her more than I did when she was growing up but did not spoil her. My mistake? I left her father, because he drank too much and beat me, and then she had a fantasy about him that never came true and he killed himself when she was 15. I still saw to her prom dresses and things, and she had my new car whenever she wanted *for the most part*....but NO passengers, only cold days for school, or to go somewhere with my permission or instructions.
Then she met the N and all fell apart, even before they married a year later. She had to drop out of University (U is higher than College in Canada) She never got back to her education until she left him and divorced him and she was on her own for leaving me out of the picture. Now she has degrees and I still have the U. Dollars I ought to have spent 25 years ago, but I sure as HELL wouldn't when she married him and he was as he was!
My parents, going back to roughly the '50s for 5 kids reaching age 16, were told that at that age we left home and had to support ourselves. That was it. The other 3 girls married and were supported by a husband. I never married but God looked after me-- I had to suffer for it, though, as with both the car crash in'69 and this recent injury, I have filed/did file a claim against the drivers and that is how I never ended up as a fry cook or a drug dealer or a prostitute. Yep God looks after us!
Can daughter get a job, save and return to College? That has to be sincere, as I thought that, then after 2 years of working, I was so accustomed to spending my hard earned $$$ and never saved a penny for University, but then................I never had a goal.
I had $12.00 dollars back in '69 when Al rolled the car, when I was 30. That's living pretty tightly with a 5 year old. I've often said to myself that I would never have made it except for the monetary gifts from coworkers and the cash settlement.
As my life progresses, I have this weird feeling that I have been living every trauma, twice, in this one life. Daughter's N....my N.. That crash and suit, this crash and suit... and for all my daughter's anger at me, in the long run, she will inherit the money!
This is not your life, but I wonder if you see where I am coming from? We want the best for them, but there is always something that can be called a cement roadblock and very often it is money as well as generational differences!
My feeling is that your daughter is old enough that she ought to be able to bail herself out---she must use her imagination.
My daughter was 30 when she left the N, took the kids, worked, went on Welfare, and attended University and knew damned well better to not ask me for money when HE owed me $55,000.00.
Now she has 2 degrees, lost 2 boys to the N, has one girl and owns her own home. That's all I know about her, and just hope she is happy, but I can no longer accept any responsibility for her, at her age of 45.
I think the sad thing is that we have led similar lives, but she won't/doesn't see that and is unwilling to discuss it.
My life has calmed down a lot since going NC with her. She was the last one, and the one I refused to accept was toxic to me, once she met the N.
Good Luck to you and your gal
Love
Izzy
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I don't want to go NC with my D, Izz.
It's where she goes when she's not happy with me (she stops calling, etc.).
I don't want to go NC with her. Even though she is at times toxic.
I am not wanting to have her out of my life, I want her to heal and thrive.
I am just worried about her wellbeing.
And I hope she's going to be okay.
GS, I do offer her caring, plenty of it. My mistake in raising her was one of
the things that can produce Nspots...being overly doting. She's never wondered
for a moment whether I loved her.
But I've given her some frank advice, too, that she may not have appreciated.
So I figure I'll get the silent treatment for a while because I told her what I think her options are.
Or, she'll go do something self-destructive and blame me for it in some way. That's my deepest fear.
love,
Hops
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What a feeling, Hops.
To feel your d perched on the brink of some unknown destruction, and wait fearfully, not knowing what you'll do....
dreading your reaction to all those imagined possibilites.
You know two things....
you want her to grow strong and be independant, and that requires she take responsibility for her decisions.
You can't swoop in and save her from herself forever, you have to start somewhere.
Is that now?
If so, knowing what your boundaries are, will help?
What are your boundaries?
Maybe if you both understand your limits, the waiting won't be so hard?
Not sure.
I'm holding your cyber hand and prayering for wise mindful decisions.
Mistakes are opportunities for growth.
Mo2
ps Keep your head where your feet are. Don't spend too much time imagining terrible things, unlikely to happen.
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Hops, I have two sitting on similar cliffs - one with young boys. And truthfully, I worry more about her.
The other D, H & I have an understanding: no news is good news. Otherwise, I'd worry myself to death just like you are, because I have navigated - as you have - that same journey and we KNOW what dangers lurk. I keep telling myself that those are simply possibilities - they are not realities - until they happen. And there's at least a 50-50 chance that they WON'T happen. And she's not me... her strengths - while we have some in common - are different; her path through this is going to be different too... and just perhaps - that also changes which dangers are avoidable for her, you know?
So when I haven't heard from her in a while - it's been about a month now - I trust that's because everything is OK and that she's got everything under control and is simply putting shoulder to boulders and working her way through. She doesn't need a mom to keep on keeping on... she's figured out how to do this for herself. That is, more than anything, what I wanted for her.
I am extremely proud of Hol. Life's been rough on her so far - a psychoN husband & divorce, a strange childhood courtesy of myself, her Ndad, and her disturbed sister - she'll be 32 in a few months. She is financially getting ahead, one square foot (and a dollar) at a time... and trying to find her best direction. She has lately been refusing offers of assistance from me. And the fact is, once I was able to refrain from running to her rescue all the time... the more confidence in herself she gained... and the more autonomy she began to develop. And that is something she's building for herself... and that's very, very important.
In the past, I put myself in debt to keep propping both girls up. I was persuaded to give that up... but it wasn't easy; I'm programmed to be a rescuer. Eventually, I saw that in the event a real disaster or a dedication to going to school and making serious self-improvements in themselves - not just the usual life difficulty everyone faces - came up, I was putting myself in a position where I wouldn't have the resouces to do a thing, if called upon. I really wasn't doing them any favors by running to their rescue at my own expense, if I expect them to become amazons in their own right, you know?
I had to give them the space and time to overcome a few obstacles all by themselves - something we could both be proud of - so that they learned that they weren't fragile or dependent... they could make their own decisions... they could do what it takes, no matter how grindingly unpleasant or tedious... and create their own power.
Life changes things like the social patterns of "shoulds". Things are different now than when we were going through what they are. I've learned that my "shoulds" grew out of the mold of the 50's - through the 60's - and that now, these young women - while they still have the concept of those traditional "shoulds" in their minds... they also have many new ones - things we didn't even think were important at that age. They are doing things differently... and I think maybe that's as it should be.
Those degrees... the pieces of paper... are fading into the group of past "shoulds". It used to be that a degree was a form of "guarantee" of a fiscally self-sufficient life. The guarantee part of that is changing, for sure. There are a lot of MBA's who can't find a job or lost one, these days. I too have worked in higher ed for a long time... and I can't tell you how many confused, lost souls I have encountered who feel betrayed by the time and money spent on higher ed - including some professors! - only to find that the payoff wasn't there for them. Young people - and some older ones - are reassessing the value of those pieces of paper and opening up their options, changing directions, in an attempt to find some "security" for themselves in this new economic landscape. They have to, I think... because the old "wisdom" apparently doesn't always apply anymore.
One last thought: I've found that when I'm indulging in worrying about one of the girls... it usually means I'm trying to find a way to repeat my old "rescuer" pattern (which was an avoidance technique) and that if I invest that energy in myself instead, until I am asked for opinions, advice, or assistance - then I am able to give that better and to everyone's satisfaction.
Guess I'm having a philosophical morning, today! Hope that's not "too much"...
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Thanks, M02, for reminding me how easily my imagination can outrun reality.
And for understanding what the fear feels like. (I'm sorry you do.)
Whew.
Not too much at all, Amber. I am really grateful. Rescuer = BUSTED.
I like your perspective, the way you so often hold the long view.
And...she did call again. She's just alienated her best friend AND her landlord.
She processes her anxiety and stuckness by more or less ranting, and isn't gifted
with a naturally gentle-sounding voice...so they both got agitated. Her landlord,
in particular, got angry because she's had this young man staying with her, and
he didn't rent his spare bedroom to TWO people, just to her. And it was beyond kind.
They've talked and she's apologized. But I wonder if she realizes how much she
behaves as though she's entitled. Her explanation to him was, well, because I'm
having car trouble, that's why he's here, and I'll give you an update as soon as I can.
In the real world, such as work situations or schoolwork deadline situations, her
excuse-making is beginning to not fly. And I wonder how many "learning experiences"
she has ahead before she recognizes that Nspot of "specialness" and how much trouble
it can create.
I've been there. Stayed too long, too.
It's sounding more likely as though she may smell the coffee and come home.
I will be relieved but not necessarily enjoy it...but I hope for the best outcome.
We all need refuge sometimes. And maybe it would do us good to have another
short chapter together. We've both been through a lot, and we're all we've got.
I will not let her dissolved into a depressed lump on the couch if she comes, however.
She may be home for a few nights before a final move, so I hope we can talk it through.
It was such a disaster for me when my "short term trial" with my Nmother turned into
a lost decade. This is not the same thing, but I still have pink flags swooshing...
What an opportunity to practice boundaries and healthy assertion it would be, if she
moved in.
love,
Hops
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Hi Hops,
Your post here has been on my mind. I felt for you as I heard a mother's aching heart speaking here. I know that you do not pray (or maybe I am wrong?), but I will pray for your daughter, that she is comforted in this challenging time and safe.
Peace,
Lise
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Lise, hon, please DO pray for her.
I pray a lot.
My agosticism allows for it...thank heaven (no pun intended).
Thank you. I mean that.
xo
Hops
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((((((((((Hugs for Hops))))))))))
tt
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XXXXX XXXXX
XXXXX XXXXX
Fingers & toes crossed for you & D, Hops... no matter how this turns out: you'll know each other better.
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Hops ,
If you can,
try to give advice only when d asks.
If she hears you barking orders and telling her what to do, she'll hear Charlie Brown WHA WHA WHA'ing.
You can't tell her what to do anymore......
it's time to see how her critical thinking skills stack up.
On another note.....
you can and should set house rules and boundaries, along with consequences for ignoring same.
Think of your actions as a lesson plan.
Your daughter will be learning from how you handle yourself....
with dignity and authority of self.
I'm often amazed at how I go to auto pilot, when under stress.
I just DO, what my parents did,
or.....
even more haunting,
I hear my own words, tone, attitude, style of problem solving....
reflected in my children's words, tone, style of problem solving. :shock:
Maybe you should write out how d's stay at home would look, and have it firmly in your mind?
(((Hops)))
She's a very lucky d to have you, I know that much.
Mo2
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thanks very much, M02 -- that's wise remindering!
She's inching her way out of shock, I think. And I'm finally ready to wait and see...
Amazing how devastating it is to lose your transportation overnight.
The whole "I'm participating in the workforce/community/church" thing just gets TOSSED.
It's really been rough on her. She kept saying in a stunned sort of way, I've gone from a bad
situation to worse.
I told her my biggest concern was that she not go from worse to worser.
Hops
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and that's just what moms are for, Hops...
bless you.
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Hops,
Your being a loving mother. It's tough times out there, I feel for you both.
She is blessed to have you. Your daughter will come if she has to, home to a soft place to regroup and get on her feet again.
Praying for you both.
love, seasons (hugs, as it will all work out)
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Hopalong,
I don't have answers for you but just want to say that you're not alone in your worry about your daughter. I wrote in another thread about my worry about my son. I am trying to learn to draw appropriate boundaries between myself and him, and respect his right to live his own life without my interference or even input (since that seems to be what he wants). After all, that is what many of the adult children on this board would like from their parents --- respect for their right to go NC! Although technically my son is not NC, he just waits til there's a crisis to contact, and it doesn't sound like your daughter is NC at all ... but anyway, what I mean is that knowing "what is theirs, and what is ours" is hard. Very hard to ONLY own our own stuff and allow them to own their own stuff. The hardest part of parenting since potty training, if you ask me.