Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Sealynx on October 17, 2009, 01:41:08 PM
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This is a spin off from my thread about the balloon boy and what appears to be a very N father. I was amazed that "professionals" are said to have entered this home and discerned no deception in this family. Psychologist say the boy could just be throwing up because he is nervous and no one is mentioning the mother's passive behavior at all.
I find this whole event very triggering. I want to jump up and down and scream, can't you people see what this guy is doing? I had to stop jumping up and down long enough to realize that if professionals don't see the deception here.....How can we expect family and friends to see through the lies that N's tell about us????
I've read that some sociopaths can pass lie detector tests because they have no feelings about right and wrong so nothing changes in their body when they lie. Would an N pass a lie detector test??? I wonder.
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I don't think many professional's really get N. N is hard to get. It does not make logical sense and the N's hide it well, usually. My M is a true NPD and a therapist of many years who has been in therapy for decades. Nobody but *I* figured out it was N . I did it from this Board. My M is as classic an N as you can find, too.
I think a person has to had had damage by an N to really understand. It is like describing chocolate. You have to taste it :shock:
xxxoo Ami
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HI Ami,
Thank god for chocolate! It has helped me through so many bad times with my N's!!!
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Yeah (((Sealynx))) chocolate and shopping! Ami
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Yes, it's very disheartening that so few mental health professionals truly understand NPD and the way it manifests itself in Ns and those around them. But my guess is that an N would pass a lie detector test....their view of themselves and that the whole world revolves around them is not a deception in their eyes...Their very core, their ability to function is focused around their belief system. If they acknowledged there was a crack in their perception or if anyone tried to prove why their perception of the world was wrong, they would explode or fall apart....
The inability of others to acknowledge true N is one of the real causes of pain for those of us who were raised by or connected to Ns.
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Hi S,
I think people are very influenced by appearances in general. So a nice home, clean, well dressed kids and the traditional 2.4 children type family always goes down well. The whole attention seeking, reality TV thing is so commonplace now that it's regarded as completely normal and people don't question why families involve themselves in that sort of thing. I've only seen one report about the incident but the whole thing seemed completely unreal. To be honest I think a lot of people just want an easy life so if it isn't screaming out for something to be done they don't bother. I share your frustrations, though, sometimes I just want to shake people until some sense starts to pour into their heads and they snap out of the fantasy world they live in. Baffling stuff.
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You are right Twoapenny,
I am just as upset with the reality shows like the one with that couple and their mega family who are now beng sued by TLC channel. It is one thing when adults want to play ball with N's, another when children are involved.
When I was in grad school I was once asked to drive the main talent search person from Universal Pictures to the airport after her lecture at a film fest. On the way to her flight I asked her about working with child stars. She told me that in most states you can't make a film without a social worker on the set if a child below a certain age is present!!!
Apparently that is not true of television and news. Maybe its time state legislatures turn their legal eyes toward the damage that can be done by allowing parents to prostitute their minor children to the media for fun and profit! Child protection is WAY behind the times on this issue!!!
S
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This is a spin off from my thread about the balloon boy and what appears to be a very N father. I was amazed that "professionals" are said to have entered this home and discerned no deception in this family. Psychologist say the boy could just be throwing up because he is nervous and no one is mentioning the mother's passive behavior at all.
I find this whole event very triggering. I want to jump up and down and scream, can't you people see what this guy is doing? I had to stop jumping up and down long enough to realize that if professionals don't see the deception here.....How can we expect family and friends to see through the lies that N's tell about us????
I've read that some sociopaths can pass lie detector tests because they have no feelings about right and wrong so nothing changes in their body when they lie. Would an N pass a lie detector test??? I wonder.
Yes, it's a concern that a lot of psychologists and social workers can't spot narcissism/abuse and can easily be fooled. It's tough, b/c it makes us feel like we're crazy when we're the only ones noticing it (at least that's how I feel). I also read sociopaths can pass lie detector tests.
From working with DCF myself, it seems like they rely on clear evidence (at least from what I've seen). Abuse from narcissism can be hard to prove. Just b/c you say you have a "gut feeling" that something is happening doesn't mean that professionals will take it seriously.
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Yeah unfortunately Ns can fake it to outsiders, they are charming and seem perfectly normal. In some ways, individual behaviors ARE perfectly normal, it's the pattern of behavior and the extremity of the behavior that is abnormal and destructive. I mean, everybody can have their own viewpoint about what happened in a situation. It's when you try to manipulate and force other people to always accept your point of view that it becomes sick. And Ns can read other people (including professionals) enough to know which face to put on with them today.
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I just saw another (attempted) interview with the family. The wife barely speaks English and couldn't really answer questions. One of the little boys bent over and hid his face in his lap half way through the interview while the "balloon boy" sat in his father's lap squirming the whole time. The third son sat next to his mother just as immobile as he has been since this started. All the while dad when on and on name dropping about which networks they'd been on and trying to think of new things to say. It was sickening. I have switch to HGTV.
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Just saw this on TV Guide....Charges are being filed!!!!
"A former research assistant of Richard Heene, the father of balloon boy Falcon Heene, claims the elder Heene was "driven by ego and fame" and that the balloon scare was indeed a hoax,"
We should all pat ourselves on the back for correctly spotting an N father.... Hopefully we are all getting better at scoping them out in our lives as well!!
S
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I have to agree with almost everything you guys have said here. What is particularly troubling about Ns is they are extremely hard to diagnose. My Nm has not had an official diagnosis, since she thinks absolutely nothing is wrong with her, but my brother and I have concluded, along with our separate therapists, that she is indeed NPD/BPD.
if I could add another issue to the mix - I think there is a lot of value for us here on the board in MacKenzie Phillips story. Specifically, how just turning 18 and becoming an adult means that your childhood and those wounds are not left behind and they continue to have an effect.. She was groomed very early to not have boundaries and speak up for herself, and she got a very skewed sense of right and wrong. She was belittled, demeaned, invalidated, etc, all priming her for the abuse. And, her drug problem unfortunately hurt her credibility. Just because you reach a certain age does not mean you are equipped and immune to the past and its effects. Several members of her family do not believe her or claim she is mentally ill and an addict, so she is effectively being abused twice.
I'm beginning to look at life with new eyes, because as much as this hurt, confusion and anger continues for me, I was literally blind to my problem for so long and I feel some sense of relief in knowing what I can change to make my life better now.
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Ales,
Good point about having to overcome accusations of mental illness and drug abuse. When the evil that harmed you exists within family bonds it is hard to point a finger without getting hit from all side because of loyalty issues. As with Phillips, many people don't really feel free enough to speak out until the parent dies or they have been forced into many years of NC. That means no TV documentaries that show the behavior "in action" and discuss the family dynamics that surround these people. We are used to selfish, vain celebrities and these are seen as "common" flaws, rather than a very uncommon and damaging personality disordered.
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This is a great short video with analysis by a former ATF body language expert of something we've all endured....A Narcissist (Richard Heene-Balloon Dad) using fogging and attack techniques to avoid addressing the fact that he has just been busted!! She comments that he doesn't really seem to be angry and shows little real emotion except for an exasperated sigh when busted...Could that be because he has no real emotions??
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2009/10/17/nr.body.language.cnn
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BTW, I saw an Internet article that states that the authorities were seen searching the Heene home recently and there will be a news conference at about 1:00 PM today regarding the "Balloon Boy" matter.
(I can only imagine the bill that the N-Father is going to get from the National Guard, FAA, and every other interstate authority that got sucked into this publicity stunt because it pulled emergency resources away from TRUE emergencies!)
Bones
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Thanks Bones,
I'll watch! I only wish I could fine the N's in my life for all the "true emergencies" they pulled me away from!!
S
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Interesting highlights from the latest newscast...
1. No remorse was shown.
2. The children were 100% aware of the deception
3. There were two 911 calls in the past, one was suspected domestic violence.
4. In spite of the fact that Falcon exposed his father, he not been removed from the family setting. I would be scared to death if I were that kid!!
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I'm scared for that kid too!!!! :(
Here's a link that discusses the news conference that the Larimer County Sheriff had today:
http://my.att.net/s/editorial.dll?pnum=1&bfromind=7406&eeid=6882877&_sitecat=1522&dcatid=0&eetype=article&render=y&ac=3&ck=&ch=ne&rg=blsadstrgt&_lid=332&_lnm=tg+ne+topnews&ck=
Bones
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Thanks Bones,
I'll watch! I only wish I could fine the N's in my life for all the "true emergencies" they pulled me away from!!
S
I agree!
They can only cry "Wolf!" so many times before they finally get busted!!!
Bones
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There's been a follow-up article on the publicity stunt pulled by that N-Father:
http://my.att.net/s/editorial.dll?pnum=1&bfromind=7404&eeid=6884427&_sitecat=1479&dcatid=0&eetype=article&render=y&ac=2&ck=&ch=en&rg=blsadstrgt&_lid=332&_lnm=tg+en+topnews&ck=&l=hm
It makes me think of the following:
"You've heard of MTV, (Music Television)? Now there is NTV, (Narcissist Television)!" :P :P
Bones
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Great article Bones. I've never been a fan of reality TV. If this guy gets a TV spot I'm going to write the sponsor and tell them I'm boycotting their product. He must think he will because just the two heliocopters that chased the balloon cost him over $14K. He won't pay that off laying tile with a high school education.
His lawyer was on the talk shows this morning and said that no parent should be arrested in front of their children. I disagree. When the father invovled the children in lying to authorities I think they do need to see what happens to people who do that. As we know, family life can't be counted on to teach us right behavior with an N running the show.
When you think about it, many celebrities have strong N traits and the children they raise seem to develop drug habits and kill themselves at a rate well above normal.
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My question is, why didn't they (the authorities),
1: thoroughly search the house
2: use infrared technology to see if the boy was actually in the balloon
3: drop a net over the balloon
Just imagine if a pedophile actually had the child, while the whole world was focused on the balloon?
Indiered
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Great article Bones. I've never been a fan of reality TV. If this guy gets a TV spot I'm going to write the sponsor and tell them I'm boycotting their product. He must think he will because just the two heliocopters that chased the balloon cost him over $14K. He won't pay that off laying tile with a high school education.
His lawyer was on the talk shows this morning and said that no parent should be arrested in front of their children. I disagree. When the father invovled the children in lying to authorities I think they do need to see what happens to people who do that. As we know, family life can't be counted on to teach us right behavior with an N running the show.
When you think about it, many celebrities have strong N traits and the children they raise seem to develop drug habits and kill themselves at a rate well above normal.
Thanks, Sealynx.
Bones
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My question is, why didn't they (the authorities),
1: thoroughly search the house
2: use infrared technology to see if the boy was actually in the balloon
3: drop a net over the balloon
Just imagine if a pedophile actually had the child, while the whole world was focused on the balloon?
Indiered
I guess hindsight is 20/20.
Bones