Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: les on October 16, 2004, 07:52:09 PM
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Profiles of N Suppliers and N Deniers
N Suppliers - Brief description: - unformed beings, generally liquid state, accessible. Usually available on demand, offering readily digestable fluids. Generally unware of own needs - often reaching point of illness before taking any action. Sometimes, though not always, quiet, approaching mute. Anticoagulants can be injected into Supplier's host body from time to time as hole may seal over when left unattended. Good sources: undifferentiated beings, can be used for many purposes, may appear gooey and shapless, slightly grey tones- - look for permeable membranes. Keep supply flowing steadily with guilt rays - they penetrate well, damage to host is distributed evenly thoughout.
N Deniers: Brief Description: always solid state: firm to touch, self propelled, under own control. Known to be very aware of their boundaries, aware of own skin -where they begin and others end. Willing to defend and honour the life within. Form of being is clear, well- defined. Opinions and thoughts easily discernable. Honest with self and others, state positions fairly, clearly. Skin has healthly glow. Balance caring for self and caring for others.
Just felt this last night. A number of people have mentioned spiders and webs - freaked myself out a bit writng this..but this is what it feels like to me.
I think the fact that we are all here means we are moving towards health -affirming ourselves, embracing our own lives.
Anyone care to expand on these 2 profiles?
Les
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Excellent descriptions Les,
The healthier I get the more I shudder at how it used to be.
Balance caring for self and caring for others
This is one I'm working on. I will give, give, and wear myself down. I am taking a day off a week where I just don't care - about schedules, goals, tasks, my husband is making sure we are all fed and given vitamins. The laundry can rot for all we care. If I'm drained dry then there goes the family. I was drained dry for years as a N supplier and neglected a lot of things of which I should have given attention.
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Great post, les.
When I am the supplier, I bitterly resent handing over narcissistic supplies. I think some enablers/suppliers are extremely angry. But the N will still extract the supplies. Your description of the N denier is the way to go in life! :wink:
bunny
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*Hi Les, good to hear your voice :-)
I have been thinking about your post all day, and for the life of me, I cannot add anything to the N Deniers description, because I still cannot imagine what an N Denier would feel. Wish I could ... hopefully someday.
However, as for the N Supplier I think that just putting my photo beside that title would say it bestl! Your description ooooozes accuracy.
But I could add, in addition to 'grey', they are also often dark dark grey/black( I read a something this week that says "I'm wearing black until they invent something darker"! I can't seem to wear anything but black...too much effort, most of the time, to think of combining colours. The sad part is that I love colours.)
But, back to your descr - NS's usually drag themselves through life as though they have a ton of lead weights attached to each jelly leg, all the while ready to dance to the tune of the energy vampire until there is nothing left but that grey puddle of silent-nearly-invisible-nothingness, but still will be available on demand, as you say.
*flower : I have been thinking about your idea of taking a day off each week - and I love that idea - and I love that you are able to do it - that is a huge step, and I am thinking that it is time to try to do something the same - thanks for sharing the seed of that thought, for I am drained dry, as well.
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Wow, this is powerful for me!!! I really think I am better than I thought and I love that you posted this.
This is my first visit to this board and I am so glad I found it by searching out ambient abuse. I was definetely an N supplier for years. When I realized I wanted to live, I left. Did it again though but hey, room for growth!
Now I am going through the path to realizing the N denier role. I think this may be why I am here! Much of this description fits but some I need to work on. But, I know it now and that is half my battle considering I denied any of this for so long.
I think this journey finally has a definition for me!!! Thanks!!
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Hi all
Thanks for the affirmation - I felt almost sick getting the N supplier description out - still have a way to go before I'm firmly in the N denier camp!
Bunny - always great to hear your voice - I feel like I have come along way since my first shaky post and your reply urging me to consider erecting sturdy boundaries - what power your words had and continue to have.
Flower - dynamite! A day off - we should all take a day, an hour, a week -whatever we can grab. It is amazing isn't it to be able to see where we have come from, see the progress and shudder as you say at where we used to be.
Only Me - oh man, lead weights attached to jelly legs - you nailed that one.
Oh Only Me - I just know so well about this formless grey invisible puddle you describe. How is it going lately? Do you feel like you are continuing to make progress? Can I offer a small challenge? What is your favourite colour? Do you like to wear it? Like you, I have hidden in black. But I am now wearing more and more of a deep rich red - I'm not even sure what to call it - magenta, or wine maybe. Just trying to "behave" my way out. Fake it till you make it approach. Do I sense that you have stalled a bit? Maybe not, but I'd like to hear what's happening lately. Only Me...we've got to keep rolling here. Just need a plan! Would you wear something mouth wateringly beautiful tomorrow and report back!! You once wrote to me that the time you don't feel like writing (feeling discouraged etc) is the time we need to hear from you. I loved that and really appreciated it because I can still too easily feel unworthy of taking up any space - even cyberspace.
Inb37 - hi there. Glad you are here. Welcome aboard. What a life raft this board has been for me and so many others. When I realized I wanted to live, I left. Did it again though but hey, room for growth!
As I read that I realized more fully that my new desire to live ( just sort of indifferent before) has come with the movement from the Supplier to Denier camp. Denier and Defender camp. Denier, defender of self and what else...deserving of life camp! Ok on a roll, Denier, defender, deserver ( such a word?) and defined!! Oh I'm having a little word play tonight. Denier, defender, deserver, defined, demarkated, deliniated and... determined!! We only have one life here - let's get living already!
What a life affirming journey - moving away from N supplier to Liver of YOUR Life. You can do it and We can do it!
Les
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Les,
I find your use of alliteration delightful!
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Hi Les, et al !
So great to see your name here - you were quiet for a bit, and I was fearful that you had a rotten Thanksgiving weekend, with NM, as did I.
I'm afraid that if I start to write, I'll never stop, and I don't want to be a bother, but : My boundaries are being challeneged every day and I am using all my energy to try to have them respected. And I am almost frantic wanting to use my energy for my own life, my own goals, my own dreams - call me crazy for wanting that! My life with my dearH seems to have been left behind.
At Thanksgiving, dearH and I stayed overnite with NM and, as always, it was very draining. She talked non-stop about how wonderful she is, and as God is my witness, I might have said ten things the entire two days, but never a complete sentence. NM just talked over top of me, about herself, and I became a smiling bobble-head. The only good thing is that this time I was more of an observer, and dearH said I was quite aloof, but nM didn't notice. I think I have put up the invisible walls that kept me safe when I was a kid. Plus, I am rapidly losing respect for her, and am actually becoming somewhat indifferent - and that is a big step, I feel.
So, just when I think I am learning to cope with that situation, there seems to be another huge N in my life. DearH noticed what I had suspected : an old friend has just moved to our city to be near us, and she is draining me, and trampling my boundaries - she doesn't even see them - can you hear my silent scream from there? We lived together when we were in our twenties, footloose and fancy free, then went different directions. Well, she is a single mom now, daughter at UofT, so she decided to live her own life, and here she is bag and baggage, moving this week, five minutes away...and very needy (but needy because of her constantly poor decisions, trying to live on alimony instead of working to support herself, etc.). I tried to be helpful when she came and stayed for days at a time, house hunting all summer, and dH and I noticed that she never lifted a finger. At first, it was understandable b/c she was making a huge life change, but now we notice that she feels entitled to be treated like a Queen. H and I have worked our butts off for every thing we have, and she wants to ride our coat-tails. My dear H says : 'How did we end up with another N in our lives, as if NM wasn't enough?' She says I am her best friend, and the only one she has - no pressure there!? (small family, all out West)
So, I now am trying to put up some boundaries to protect my energy and my health, but I am exhausted by her, on top of nM.
There are people who appreciate my love and kindness, and those who take it for granted. There are people who, no matter how heavy the load, still leave my soul feeling full and inspired, and that is the feeling of Love - but unfortunately, my NFriend is draining me, instead, for I seem to be invisible to her, other than a supplier for her needs.
You and this group, no matter what the issue, leave me feeling strong and healthy inside, for we listen to one another, try to help one another grow and heal, and most importantly, we acknowledge one another. I have a huge heart, and love to help others, without expecting anything in return, but at the moment, I still have some major healing to do, and my little well is almost dry.
In the past year, I have helped NM and NFriend through life-changing events, but they both have sucked me dry, because it is never enough, they always want more of me. Well, I've had the biscuit.
Hope this isn't interpreted as whiny. I have put my life On Hold for the past year for these two N's (three N's counting my Late NDad) - and I say Enough Already!!!
Anyhow, that's the sort of thing I have been grappling with lately.
But, I'm still alive and kicking and erecting boundaries as fast as I can!
Re: Black! My favourite colour, after black, is red. I also wear a lot of denim, like longish denim skirts, etc. Today, I'll try a red scarf at my neck. I read that wearing Red at the throat area brings power to our voice, so that's a great place to start wearing colour.
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~all that to say I guess I am still the
N Supplier :roll:
Guess I need to know that it's okay to live my life here with my dearH, and that my/our goals, dreams, health and peace have value and that it is okay to care for and nurture them.
Think I know the answer to that one. Hear me roar!
(as I type, NF has just phoned, and I let it go to the answering machine! :oops: )
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NF has just phoned, and I let it go to the answering machine
Great! :D Now press delete! It's okay, you're busy here, you have your own priorities, your *friend* will have to fend for herself, find another supply source. Has she telephoned to see how you are, if you're okay? If not, why bother responding? What's in it for you? You deserve better from a *friend*. Take care
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Thank you Guest, for another :idea: moment!
Now that I think of it, she never shows an interest in how I am, ever ever ever, Hmm. I'll pay attention to our interactions in the next few days and make sure I am seeing it clearly, and not just through foggy tired eyes. Radar On! Walls going Up!
Thank you again, Guest, for your healthy perspective.
What a Huge Help. :D
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I seem to get into similar situations OnlyMe - in fact one is looming - a friend is coming to stay for a few weeks and I am already tired! So what is the problem here? Oh hell, I guess we know the problem... and the solution, but the problem is, the solution doesn't come naturally ie. realizing our own worth and protecting ourselves, our space, our sanity.
Do you suppose it would help to start the day with an affirmation workout. Since self-worth isn't in many of us naturally I'm thinking maybe it can be drilled in - hence the illiteration exercise in the last post. (if,Nm saying repeatedly, "What are you,some kind of moron?" can make me believe I'm an "idiot" then maybe I need to counter it daily with the opposite)
Thinking outloud here - what if you/we paired reminders to treat ourselves as well as we would treat anyone else - with drinking our morning cup of tea or some other regular routine. It must be possible to reprogram ourselves every day.
I think dealing with Nms and NF's needs rehearsal, lots of it. I am very slow verbally -I'm stumped, I'm stymied, I'm stupified, I'm speachless (can't seem to help myself) So I need WORD by WORD help with what to say. I imagine you are the same way. If anyone could suggest some simple, easy to remember Sentence Solutions please pass them on.
Defending Oneself
1. First be aware of what you honestly have to offer and don't over extend yourself ( I just blew it and now I am kicking myself)
2. Ah this is what I've been wanting to say to you! Maybe I've said it before, MM would know! Ok, it was suggested to me by a very wise friend that we can and should continue to evolve morally, spiritually all our lives. Maybe even more so at the end of our lives. If you've read any Stephen Levine or others in this vein, often our final years are coming to terms with who and what we have been. So what does this mean? To me it means I don't see my 91 year old mother as a pathetic old woman who need to be protected. No. She needs to grow up because she is almost dead! So I won't lecture her but nor will I protect her from reality anymore either. By being ME, she will have to live a more honest version of herself.
SOOOO
Defending Oneself verbally
You know I worked all day and I'm beat. I can't think of one damn thing to say but i'd like to propose that we make a list of quick and easy things to say that we can pull out easily. Like recipes for burnt out homemakers Help required!
thanksgiving - my husband and I went up to a cottage we share to shut off the water. Mother went to brother's. Brother reported that after she had talked about herself forever he said, "This is so boring, can we please talk about something else!" (brother is a bit like mother, has no problem at all asserting his needs) Mother said: " Well, What else is there?" (truly) He said, angrily, "Well we could talk about the American election for god's Sake!" Let's start rehearsing for Christmas -We will not let the conversation be hijacked! Maybe some loud music might help or a burnt turkey!
OnlyMe - are you still talking to your mother every bloody night? If the answer is yes, let's apply the board's collective wisdom to get you out of that pronto.
a red scarf at the neck - alright. Just might get me one.
Well I believe I have wandered all about here.
Guest - great observation about what a "friend" is.
Hi Flower - ah delightful! Got any ammunition you can spare? adding "deflecting" to the "d" list.!
Les
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ah me, I teach English as Second Language and I can't spell "Speechless" - I think that just might be ironic - but not moronic! Well at least I caught it - to bed with me. Thank god I teach beginners!
Les, considerably less, tonight.
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Okie dokie - I like the affirmation idea. I'll definitely need cue cards, because it doesn't come easily to think well of myself. I beat myself up if no one else does. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could help one another become soooo strong - wow! the power we would have, what with our brains and wonderful personalities and snazzy black wardrobes with just a spash of red?!
And that red scarf is big trouble - I don't know if it was cooincidence or not, but I seemed quite scrappy today, and it felt good in a bold sort of way. I was ready to stand my ground no matter what or who! I'll wear it again tomorrow and let you know. :lol:
Talking to NM : No, I'm not talking to her every night now. We sort of take turns, and now I take myself to the library or something, to avoid her call (so DearH doesn't have to fib). I still don't have the internal strength to let the answering take the message. I'm trying, though. She's sneaky, because she sometimes calls first thing in the morning, when she knows I am right here. Thank God for call display! Sometimes I answer just in case it is an emergency - but then again, so what if it IS an emergency?! (see, I told you I was feeling scrappy today! can't believe I put that thought in writing!).
Your thoughts on evolving as we age : how right you are. We need to keep growing, evolving, learning, understanding and so on. And, I said to someone that it made my heart ache when I saw that my NM was really a little old lady, and I felt that she needed to have me look after her - and the reply was "but we're all going to be that way someday, aren't we?"
And then I thought that yes, some of us will age gracefully, still learning, and growing, and our NM's will also have the old age they have earned.
Glad to hear you had a nice break at Thanksgiving. We were guinea pigs for a chicken dinner - NM wanted to try out the whole meal on us, and if we liked it, she was going to serve it to company she has invited next week - gee, isn't that a warm and fuzzy family Thanksgiving to remember?!
Off the top of my head, here's a positive start for our first morning tea and affirmation: a while back, you inspired me to hum the tune
"This little light of mine, I'm going to let it shine!"
* and to anyone in the group, as suggested by Les -
please jump in with any positive affirmations, powerful sentences, anything that can be used to help over-ride the negative lies that our NM's have imbedded in our thoughts! It might help us all heal, the sooner the better!
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you scrappy, snappy, sassy woman you! Maybe we all need a red scarf tied jauntily at the neck
I was reading a post by Discounted Gilrl ( I think). She talks about how everyone was and is Silent around her Nm. Nobody challenges. This is amazing power and it burns me up. Of course I have been silent all my life as have you and so many others. But I am less and less that way. The more I project who I really am the healthier I feel.
May your scrappiness grow stronger and stronger
Les
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Well, she is a single mom now, daughter at UofT, so she decided to live her own life, and here she is bag and baggage, moving this week, five minutes away...and very needy (but needy because of her constantly poor decisions, trying to live on alimony instead of working to support herself, etc.). I tried to be helpful when she came and stayed for days at a time, house hunting all summer, and dH and I noticed that she never lifted a finger. At first, it was understandable b/c she was making a huge life change, but now we notice that she feels entitled to be treated like a Queen. H and I have worked our butts off for every thing we have, and she wants to ride our coat-tails. My dear H says : 'How did we end up with another N in our lives, as if NM wasn't enough?' She says I am her best friend, and the only one she has - no pressure there!? (small family, all out West)
You've outgrown this woman. You don't have time to babysit this lazy individual. She will sponge off of you as long as you allow it. If you don't allow it, she'll find another sponge. Maybe she'll move again, where there is another spongeworthy person. But don't let it be you. I would say buh-bye to this so-called "friend" as she has nothing to offer but botheration. With friends like her, who needs enemies???
bunny
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Instead of the Red Hat Society, we'll be the Red Scarf Society!! :lol: Voiceless Wonders!
Well, I tried my voice tonight with NM, while wearing a red turtleneck.
Long story short : My dad, an artist, left me his paintings in his Will this summer, and I left them hanging on the walls on the house where NM still lives. NM tried to make prints, sell them, etc. until I had Dad's lawyer contact her to tell her to leave them alone. Tonite she called to say she has wrapped one of the paintings in paper as her gift to a gentlemen she knows, as a retirement gift. Instead of just staying quiet, I found myself reminding her that the art is not hers to give, that it is my decision, etc etc and we locked horns :twisted: (got a fleeting flash of the devil just now) :twisted:. It became quite nasty, she became quite nasty. She tried to twist words every which way, but I stood my ground, voice firm but getting louder and clearer. I think I surprised her. She finally stopped, and assured me she will wait until the next time I visit, and we both will give that man a painting that *I* am prepared to give away. Then her crocodile tears started - this woman didn't even cry when NDad died, and never cries, so I know they were fake, but I stood my ground. My cheeks are burning, my tummy is upset, but gee whiz, I'm proud of myself at the moment.
Of course, I know she'll come up with some way to get back at me, inflict pain so I'll be prepared for anything, but right now, I feel Good.
*and bunny, once again, you see the situations so clearly!
.."You've outgrown this woman".. - that's IT exactly, well said.
Buh-Bye Botheration!
Don't know how I struggled along before I found you all - whew!
~I've come such a long, long way, but still have a long way to go!~
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OnlyMe,
You did a fantastic job standing your ground. :D It may be time to remove the paintings from her walls before she starts giving them away without prior warning. Keep up the good work!
bunny
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Well OM --- good for you. I wish I had stood up to the NQueenmother that way, instead of being a wimp. I have since removed the "I am a doormat" sign from my back, but my brother (the one without the jingle jangles) and his greedy wife have taken over and I got/get zilch from my parents' estate. Their greed runs so very deep, and I now realize the 3 of them teamed up against my Dad in his final years. But, my broken heart would not let me be objective enough to see it.
Anyhow, on that red scarf (I do hope it's cashmere) -- be careful not to let it trail on the floor when next you visit mother dear. You wouldn't want her to trip over it. :)
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I'm cheering here in TO Only Me! Can you hear me! Imagine what you could do if you were dressed entirely in red! I'm sure you surprised her! This sounds like another signifigant step OM.
I took another step myself today. For years my mother has used the poor abandoned me approach often saying that she will have to hire some "companions." Usually after she works that idea around she says cheerily, "Perhaps I could pay you to visit me." Well today when she started in about the "companions" I said, "Great idea!" Boy that felt good. I didn't take the bait. (just BTW - this woman does more things in a week then people 20years younger) Once a week is my limit and I'm sticking to it!
red cashmere scarf, mmmm, hope you get yourself one Discounted Girl.
Les
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Thank you for your support, Les, Discounted Girl and bunny.
Yes, Les, I can hear you!!! Congrats and pompoms on your reply to the Companion comment! I'll tuck that one in the back of my brain, for the day my NM tries that tactic. Another Cue Card :!: I need Affirmations Cue Cards and Snappy Retorts Cue Cards!
Once again it sounds like we share a NM - mine can run rings around me, entertains, has people for dinner every week, or bridge and dessert, all sorts of things, and is always going somewhere, every day, all dolled up! What drives these old girls?!! I think mine equates being busy with being important.
Re: NDad's paintings - even knowing as much as I do about NPD, it still amazes me that I cannot trust my NM at all. Part of me still wants to think of her as a "Mother", I guess - but I realize, now, that her word means nothing. I cannot trust her with anything that belongs to me, and certainly not my heart.
(oh, and It's just a little square silk scarf, but the red seems to work!
And I gave ND a red cashmere scarf a few years ago, and it's in the box of stuff I brought home with me - well, there's no stopping me now!)