Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: lighter on November 10, 2009, 09:06:48 AM
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Hops:
Would you mind sharing your Attention Deficit journey here?
I'm curiouse about all aspects.
Esp what the docs said, and how they made their determination.
What are they suggesting as treatment?
How is it going, now you understand what you're dealing with?
Mo2
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Hi M02,
I haven't decided whether or not to try the Rx. I'll be discussing it with my T later this week...
I'm not really startled by the diagnosis. Should note that even the expert said, You do fit the major criteria, "such as they are". Even w/in pschology, there's a lot of looseness about what ADD is. In my case, I'm distractible. There's also an "inattentive type".
I don't know if this is a new journey or not. My first response is well, of course. And, it's a little depressing. Once I process that I may find it a relief. Usually, reality is.
As of now, I loathe the idea of adding a brain Rx to my life. But I might.
Still thinking....I am also willing to do a trial period of Rx just to see what it does. The doc himself had an amazing experience with it.
Permanent bad breath though, yuck. (I had a BF who took ADD Rx...severe dry mouth.)
xo and thanks for asking,
Hops
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I'm hoping the drug trial brings a revelation of energy and focus for you.
As for the dry mouth...... maybe you'll become a sugar free lemon drop sucker too?
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Just a thought--found these articles on the web:
The Hunter concept was created and popularized by Thom Hartmann in the 1993 book "ADD - A Different Perception" and the follow-up book "Beyond ADD." In his book, Hartmann theorized that ADDers were essentially left over hunters in a farmer's world. 10,000 years ago, most people would have had Hunter traits. These traits, such as constantly scanning the environment (for prey), the ability fall into a dream-like state for long periods (during down periods) combined with the ability to become suddenly hyperfocused and thrive on danger and excitement (the hunt), helped these people survive. There was no need to remain focused on boring tasks. Until the agricultural revolution, that is, during which the farmer types outcompeted the hunter types, to the near extinction of the Hunters. Agricultural populations wiped out Hunter populations. Farmers needed to plan ahead and to tend their fields with care. They needed a different sort of temperament; more of a worker-bee personality. Hunters would forget to weed, forget to plant. Hartmann cited evidence that hunter-gatherer populations left on the planet appear to have a very high rate of ADD traits while populations which have been long agriculturilized, like China, have low levels of ADD traits. Hartmann's book was very radical for its time, but was well received by many ADDers as well as some experts in the field of ADD.
In the 1990's, the Hunter isn't looking for an actual Caribou to slay. Instead, he or she is hunting in a metaphorical sense. Hunting for excitement. Hunting for the prize: the cure for cancer or the truth in the theory of global warming. Hunting for the mental or physical stimulation to mimic the hunt of our ancestors. Entrepreneurs are a good example. Schools are designed by and for Farmers, and Hunters have a very difficult time since they are genetically designed to Hunt.
I enjoyed this web page: http://borntoexplore.org/addexp~1.htm#hunterscb
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CB:
I found this explanation interesting. I describe my hubby as ADD... and his frequent shopping trips... as "hunting-gathering" runs.
The other thing I've noticed is that there seems to be an emotional component to the behavior. Excitement is one of those components, but there is also a sense of accomplishment - if he finds something at an incredibly low price (knowing how much it is normally priced); like winning a "game". He is very single-minded; almost obssessive when he's looking for something in particular and will inundate me with printed web pages from his "hunt". Looking for praise... like a kitty who brings a captured mouse back to me... "look what I did".
On the other hand, I also thinks he's a "magpie" - the type that's easily distracted/attracted to something pretty, shiny, or fun if it crosses his path. He must possess - not simply appreciate - the "cool" things he discovers. I think it compensates for some past, traumatic losses he's experienced. It re-establishes a positive "frame" of emotions... an equilibrium... for him.
Both of these behaviors have resulted in the massive amount of "stuff" that I'm now sorting and packing, in preparation to move. This "stuff" is both trophy and sentimental for him. It helps that I understand this much (if not all) about him and am not trying to change it - only making him aware of the consequences (for me) of it. I'm hoping that he comes to realize that there are "options" other than the "habit" he's developed over time - and I think he is.
FACT IS... this is one of the very useful and charming aspects of him and as long as it's not "out of control"... it's one of the things I love about him. It can be "fun" for me too... and god knows, I need more fun!! :D
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Hi CB,
Thanks for the very thoughtful questions. The thing is, I really don't feel as though I've designed a life that works for me. Rather than managing it well, I feel I have more or less been surviving it unhappily, with compromises and omissions I'm a bit despairing about. Realities such as financial stress (preventable, if I'd had a coherent plan rather than getting the next job I could grab--"hunter" sure applies to my bouncy resume) -- don't defeat me, but the organization, daily tending, practical practices that keep one safer, saner, and healthier...I've failed at those.
Bounced through a hell of a lot of relationships, too.
One thing occurs to me is the craving for stimulation you mention -- seems to me that's a major characteristic. The written report I got sums it up. My lifelong problems with:
completing tasks efficiently
poor follow-through
impulsivity
disorganization
poor focus
poor time management
shifting from one uncompleted activity to another
procrastination
forgetfulness
organzing tasks within the home
excitability
Historically:
struggle with math
flunked a grade (9th--pure despair, just "quit")
disciplined for talking too much
inattentive
distractible
Underlying depression and anxiety are present but do not account for the early onset and breadth of the symptoms. And on the computerized tests, my scores are "consistent with those obtained from adults who carry a diagnosis of ADHD".
None of it has prevented me from being a hell of a writer (present performance excepted!) and editor...when I focus on those I am full-brain functional. But planning a life? Feh. Not so good.
More I think about it, and more I think about how I feel, more I think it'd just make sense to do a trial of the Rx. I can always stop it if the side effects are onerous. And if the effect is life-changing in a positive way, well heck! Life's kind of short and I've been kind of miserable. I've looked up the cheapest, oldest and most generic stimulant that's been used...Consumer Reports has a report on the most effective and inexpensive ADD Rx., so that's what I'll ask for.
Will talk to my T and my family Dr. and see how it goes.
Thanks much for asking.
Dunno if I told y'all this, but the doc's own story was, although very different from mine, extremely compelling. He had struggled in school, acted out, done all sorts of VERY disorganized things (from an adolescent male perspective) and generally felt like a total failure. His family had given up on him. He enlisted and went to Viet Nam, where many of the soldiers were doing all sorts of drugs like M&Ms. Someone handed him a tablet of speed, and 20 minutes later, he felt a shift in his brain, and suddenly he said to himself, "Oh my god. This is what normal feels like." He came back, went to school, became a successful psychologist and ADD expert. Very nice man. Not a pill "pusher" but completely convinced that the Rx are simply fixing a dopamine issue and the results are night and day for many people he works with. (If I refused Rx and just want to deal with it behavorially, he offers plenty of info for that too.)
He suggested these authors and web sites:
Russell Barkley, PhD
Kevin Murphy, PhD
(these 2 are at the forefront of ADD research, he says--they offer many links on their sites)
and books by Ned Hallowell, MD and John Ratey, MD (Driven to Distraction and Answers to Distraction)
One thing I'm happy about is my D decided to be evaluated too. If her results are similar and she could be saved decades of similar frustration from having (and perhaps treating) such a diagnosis, that would make everything worth it, hands down.
She's clear on her boundary though--her Dx and her decision about it are her business. And I agree. I was delighted that she accepted the offer to be tested, though.
Amber, your hubby is so lucky he's married to you. I know many women who are mercilessly critical of their mate's eccentricities. I know how hard it is to be around a packrat, too--my ex was practically a hoarder. It's nice to read how understanding and loving you are about his stuff. That said, he might find his own existence gets happier if he finds out why and how he does all that...maybe he'd enjoy some ADD testing too! (Or maybe he's just exactly fine as he is, lucky fellow.) Do you have common areas in the home he doesn't clutter up? That's the agreement I came to with my D's dad...he could decorate his study to his heart's content (it extended to posters on the CEILINGS when he ran out of wall space), but the LR, DR, kitchen, had to be reasonably uncluttered. Still, it was tough, aesthetically, for me....
Thanks, guys. I didn't know I was ready to write all this out so thanks also to M02 for the nudge.
love,
Hops
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What a great thread, Hops.
::Waving to CB and Amber::
Mo2
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Dear Hops,
Your post, Reply #6, with all you personal info on your ADHD is so informative. I found this thread to be a surprise, as I might have missed when this began, and now MO2 coaxed you!
You know, when you mention these things as symptoms, all at once, after having read your individual posts for so long, I can see the Dx, but never would have guessed otherwise. If it were me I would be ecstatic to know there was an answer, rather than wondering why "I was normal and doing all these things".............I can so relate with my own dissociative 'disorder'.
You are intelligent and a good writer, very expressive and understanding, so I am surprised to hear you have a 'disorder' at all!
(My desk, right now, is also in a state of 'disorder'. I see that as that there is no junk, just necessary things, that have a reason to be out of order, for now, will be straightened out, then out of order again. My desk, my mind... and yet I am organized, but a bit more of a procrastinator than before the accident in May.)
Permanent bad breath? I don't understand. Is this about Rx?
Cheers
Izzy
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Hops - what did you decide to do? And can you tell how it's working out yet?
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Izz:
About the bad breath......
the drug causes dry mouth symptoms.....
and that can lead to bad breath.
Mo2
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Thanks, Izzz...I'm glad our songstress likes my writing!
High praise.
PR I dunno what to do. Strangely lethargic about calling the doc.
I've been doing one different thing that's had a notable positive effect,
quite surprising, really:
The Circadian Prescription
A simple dietary change, and I've dropped pounds without trying
and generally feel much much better. Only been a couple weeks, but
I'm interested in sticking with it a while.
I may not act now (or ever) on the Rx...just soooo reluctant.
But if I get the big freelance gig, I'll probably have to, just to keep going.
M02--that's right. Bleahhh. (Controllable, sure, but I've been really
liking being unmedicated, or less anyway...still do Ambien.)
hugs all
Hops
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It's funny timing, but I just had dinner with a friend who was recently dx'd with ADHD, and tried 2 drugs.
She's settled with the Aderol? and her life's very different, in a good way. The first drug made her fell "fuzzy."
The Aderol helps her focus.
She doesn't take it all the time, just when she really needs the focus.
She doesn't want to build up a tolerance and have nowhere to go from there.
For the most part, simply understanding WHY she's the way she is...... helps her feel better.
She's been coming up with coping strategies her whole life.
Now she knows why she needed them.
(((Hops)))
She also said she's had many conversations with friends dx'd with ADHD, who feel their medications have improved their lives.
::going to google Circadia Prescription::
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I don't know if this has anything to do your reluctance... but I'm tossing it out to you, because of your creativity. Obviously, if the shoe doesn't fit....
Are you a bit afraid that the drug will alter your creativity... or even the "who you are" in an essential way?
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Good anecdote, M02, thanks for telling me about your friend.
I do hear and read the same thing, over and over.
It's nice to hear that one can use it periodically rather than always...
I didn't realize that.
Amber, I don't think I fear that.
When I had huge anxiety attacks in grad school I feared therapy,
until the old poet (whom I idolized) told me he STILL went for
counseling now and then. He said:
"It didn't take away my poetry, it gave it back!"
Rx is a bit different, but I've been on antidepressants in the past...
didn't lose my essential self.
Stimulants feel more like...a nail gun rather than...stitches.
I'll likely be talking myself into a trial of them soon though.
(I also have bad memories from a few years ago when the PhD I
worked for, who was not my doc and had never tested me in any
way, pressed me to accept his instant dx and medication...so I could
work faster and longer hours on his grant.)
It was so corrupt my own MD threatened to report him. And I did
not like the man. Ethical violations all over, including in his research.
So hearing, several years later, that he was right after all (at least
about the dx)...might be part of my resistance.
The rest of it is just...awww, leave my brain alone. If I didn't have
to work a job and juggle worries I don't WANT, I'd be just fine with
my brain the way it is!
So I feel a bit as though it's medicating myself to make myself fit into
a culture I don't identify with, and to reach goals that aren't really my own.
(That's just whining. I know I have to deal with it all...part of the price
of admission to life.)
thank you for asking.
xo
Hops
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One thing occurs to me is the craving for stimulation you mention -- seems to me that's a major characteristic. The written report I got sums it up. My lifelong problems with:
completing tasks efficiently
poor follow-through
impulsivity
disorganization
poor focus
poor time management
shifting from one uncompleted activity to another
procrastination
forgetfulness
organzing tasks within the home
excitability
Historically:
struggle with math
flunked a grade (9th--pure despair, just "quit")
disciplined for talking too much
inattentive
distractible
Hops: I'm really curious now. To what degree to you have to have these problems to have ADD?? I have all of this but mostly in the workplace and when I was in school. Teacher's wrote all of this on my report cards. OMG. Now I'm wondering If I have ADD? In the workplace, I have managed to wrangle a hold on completing tasks and follow through (because of deadlines, etc.) but I do procrastinate to the point where I'm under pressure and I feel that I work well when I'm pushed.
Any insight for me?
Bear
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Gee, Bear...I wouldn't dare diagnose anybody else.
I've always called myself ADD-ish. It was just the reality of having all the psych tests confirm it.
Can you find an online test?
(Hey, we're creative types. Small comfort, eh?)
hugs,
Hops
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Hops and Bear:
There is a list of questions, to help determine whether someone might have ADHD, or not.
I'll ask my friend if she still has a copy of hers.
She said she completely fit the profile, in any case.
Oh oh... I also meant to say....
when she finally got on the second medication, she looked around and thought....
"So this is what it's like to feel normal."
I thought that was interesting.
((Hops....) It stinks that the unethical Phd's actions, might be causing more emotional conflicts, than you otherwise might have had.
I trust you'll do what's best, either way.
Mo2
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So I feel a bit as though it's medicating myself to make myself fit into
a culture I don't identify with, and to reach goals that aren't really my own.
(That's just whining. I know I have to deal with it all...part of the price
of admission to life.)
Bless you Hops for actually putting into simple words, something that's been taunting me - just beyond the focus/range of my consciousness. What you said isn't whining at all... I think it's more a little, oft-overlooked corner of reality that you're finally taking a good look at. Your looking and putting it out here so clearly...
is connecting dots for me, on so many levels. But, I've tried 3 times to write out what is making sense now and it's still in the babble stage; doesn't even make sense to me.
However, I'm convinced now, that you're on the right track with your path to a decision that's right for you. Has something to do "stage of life" and how our priorities/necessities change.... I think.
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Thanks, Amber...I'm looking forward to your babble, always do!
Oddly enough I got very focused this weekend and got a lot of paperwork taken care of.
I think my D was helping, just being present and that calmed me and helped me focus.
Don't want to get crazy about it, but maybe I can establish enough new routines to cope with my skitter-brain without doing Rx.
The new nutrition and better exercise is making a big difference.
I'm doing the Circadian Presciption and also being consistent w/Dr. Schultz's Superfood, which I learned about here and am very grateful for!
love to you, and don't get too worn out juggling move and business...
Hops
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LOL!! This is the week, I need to pack for the next visit to the beach - we close on the house on the 4th. So today, I decided to indulge in my old habit of reading/responding here first thing in the morning (probably won't a get much chance later this week). The journaling doesn't seem as necessary... so it's sort of on the back burner, now. I'm definitely in a "doing" mode and less self-reflective for a while. But some things have come up... and your simple phrase ties them all together. Maybe I can think about that during our long drives this week and next and nudge the pieces to fall into a coherent pattern.
The Circadian Prescription sounds interesting... will check it out.
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Hi Hops
so often, someone here says something that is exactly me.
to make myself fit into a culture I don't identify with
I'd been in therapy from age 19/20 on and off to 2003/2009 (this last was re the accident) but every time I always felt that one would learn something about me that would be so earth-shattering that I wouldn't even be me (whoever I was) anymore.
But for those 50 years i have been the same me, yet a bit more enlightened with age!
If you go for the meds, you will be you but a better (or worse) version, depending on your outlook, and the actual effect, I expect.
I sort of believe we might get what we think.
Once I said, "I don't use the crutches now, as I am older, might fall and break a hip (leg it was) and end up in a wheelchair for the rest of my life" . That was in jest, but here I am.
Another time, I was wearing a wig as my hair grew out from not being able to take a perm. I thought, "If I get hit by a car, my wig will go flying and I'll be laying there with my hair in the panty part of pantyhose and no one will know me."
Then I got rid of the wig, just in time.
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When I populate the planet I will rule in the next life, Izz,
I will require many people who move about on wheels and wear pantyhose on their heads...
Really. Conventional earthlings can apply too, but preference will be given to pantyhose-heads.
And those with seniority in a previous life will cut to the head of the line.
It ain't a democracy, when I'm Queen o' the Universe.
(Everyone will be pain free, by the way...much easier for administration purposes.)
xxoo
Hops
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Hey gang, i have a terrible add and just take energy drinks to stay focused when I need it.
Hops, as an ex doctor, I would dare to advise you not to take any of those medicines because they give rebound and after you want to quit them they cause you a terrible depression. Just handle it your self, and take energy drinks when you need to stay focused.
I take red bull to play in church so I do not forget where I am and to play the amen when it is time to do it and to stay on top of my game in church, etc.
Those medicines cause you a lot of damage, and they are addictive and create tolerance then you need more, just my opinion as a add my self, gandle it on your own.
God bless you.
Lupita/
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Lupita...
I'm really happy to hear your voice!
And thank you for the advice.
I am agreeing, so far...I would much, much rather find better behavioral ways.
After 60 years with this brain, I'd like to give it a chance.
love to you,
Hops
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Hi Hops,
I moved this to this thread because I didn't want to hijack the thread where you first posted it by getting off on a rabbit trail.
Your entire post was beautifully put. I relate especially to this part...
It's a release to let her go. Poor woman lived 98 years, and her last 14 months were more than enough punishment. I don't want to punish her, or her memory, any more.
She baked bread. She made clothes. She strove and tried and was brittle.
More to the point, she was of a generation and background that never, ever, would have considered therapy or counseling or dishonoring thy father permissible.
tt
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Thank you, TT.
I had dinner tonight with a friend who had just said goodbye to his mother at her funeral, and he's in the first stages...
He has so much to forgive. Terrible abuse...but/and she had a schizotypal disorder. It's hard to sort out the accountability then. Sometimes, he said, meanness is a part of such a disorder (he's a shrink).
But the main thing he's feeling is relief. Her death is such a relief to him...
I get that.
love,
Hops
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Hi all!! My ex husband had ADD. He was so distracted. I would cook a meal and be done eating by the time he sat down. He would have to go back and get salt, and then he would go back in and get something else. He would walk circles.
It was hard for him to get out of the house. It got to the point that he had post its all over the door to remind him of things. He had to learn to put his keys in the exact same place every night or he could never find them.
He was very creative but he was also very impulsive. Affairs all the time and hence the divorce. Could never pull off job interviews. Hard to get hired. But so smart.
He did the drugs. It helped him focus.
Good luck to you Hops!!!!
Kelly
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LORDYbove, Kel...
you been watchin' me?
I am doing better...
And YOU???????? What's the latest on you?
big hugs, and thanks for telling me that story,
Hops