Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: HeartofPilgrimage on December 14, 2009, 12:04:23 PM
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I'm curious ... those of you who have realized that one or both parents were narcissists and that they were the weird and disturbed one in the relationship ... what brought you to your "light-bulb moment" when you realized what was happening?
I really didn't get it, despite all my education, until my dad died and my mother suddenly got a lot worse. One day she was kind of self-aggrandizing and later I turned to my husband and said, "you know, I think my mother is a bit narcissistic." He said, "uh huh, she is." And the light turned on.
I had had a difficult relationship with my parents for years because they continued to treat me like a child, and then whenever anything happened with my mom involved, I ended up being the one in the wrong but I didn't get that she was actually DOING that (gaslighting), I just thought I was wrong. And I was frustrated and angry. But to me it was normal.
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There were a couple of those. The first with my mother was when I was about 20. She would always engage in inappropriate and just plain yucky forms of affection with me, like roughly grabbing me and kissing me, leaving lipstick all over my face or grabbing me (her version of a hug) when I was obviously busy and didn't want to be bothered. Affection never took place in keeping my feelings or needs, such as when I was obviously lonely or tired. I hated her touch, but at the same time blamed myself for not wanting affection from either of them. My father had narcissistic traits but was not as bad as mother. He could give affection but it was frequently followed by a request to do something I didn't want to do. In other words it was like showing my vulnerable side to him always resulted in my having to compromise something, usually something he was forced to do by my mother. So I didn't like to be touched by either of them.
One day when I was 20 while I was living at home I was really happy about something. It was probably something related to a person I was dating, but I came bounding down the stairs on my way to the kitchen and my mother was standing in the foyer. I gave her a spontaneous hug and she got VERY uncomfortable. In that instant I realized it was not me. She didn't really mean the "affection" she forced on me. It was just as bad as it felt and she was incapable of receiving any so I should not feel guilty.
Learning the word for it took another 20 years, but with that one action I forgave myself and began to study and understand her behavior in ways that allowed me to free myself a little more every year.
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Thinking back, there were many light bulb moments for me...my trouble was that everyone in our family tried to hide my moms illness, so they would turn the light on me. For years I did feel that I was too sensitive. I have NC with NM and my cowardly dad for about 15 years. Now my NH has taken their place. We have added to this wonderful disorder by having a ND! My MIL is so full blown that see really does live in a fantasy land...BIG TIME!!!
My final light bulb came on about 4 years ago when I sent my daughter away to another state because I couldn't help her "make sense" of her actions. I thought that I was a failure as a parent.
The school that I sent her to required my husband and I attend seminars and I had a huge wake up call there. It gave me a good inward look at myself and I realized that I was allowing myself to be pushed around by sick and evil people. You should have seen the sick and evil people trying to deal with there inward true feelings! They were physically sick and pissed off...you could really separate the heard there. Then I started searching mental illness. Found out that my entire life has been spent with N's. YUK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's NOT normal to me anymore. It's tiring and crazy making to be so good for these people to accept me. To hell with them, they don't really care anyway!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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the time that i realised that NM's problem is indeed N was when a friend handed me the book Children of the self-absorbed, only a year ago.
she was misdiagnosed in the past as neurotic with schizo crises but that was it...
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HoP:
Which lightbulb? I had so many it should've been like a strobe light! But it's totally amazing how expert I am at rationalization... and yes, even denial "just like mom"...
it really didn't start to sink in what had happened to me and why, until therapy - when I remembered the trauma I'd blocked (along with part of myself) from my memory... and when my T explained that I didn't really HAVE parents - as in adults responsible for me. It was always me, being responsible for them... you know?
It was a slow, gradual collection of awarenesses... with specific memories... that finally convinced me that my mom was mentally ill. More BPD... than classic N - but all the N-traits are there, too.
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My light bulb moment came to me in therapy. I started therapy because I thought something was wrong with me. In my twenties I suffered from social angst and overall low self-esteem (among a plethora of other things) and thought I was just normal that way and I had to live like that. Then in my thirties I couldn't deal with it any longer and it was putting a strain on my relationship with my boyfriend, who is now my husband.
While in therapy, my [great] therapist had me talk about college and why I dropped out. He guided me into talking about my college days and what was going on with me at home-- and then there it was, the BRIDGE. The bridge between my NM and my failing grades in High School then into college. I never, ever connected the two before. All along I thought I was stupid and too dumb to learn anything intellectual or intelligent. I felt lower than other students and mindfully started at the bottom for no damn reason other than my NM told me I was not good enough.
After that therapy session, I left and actually had to pull my car over onto a side street and I slumped over my steering wheel like a sack of potatoes and bawled. I cried for all the hurt my NM inflicted upon me for 36 years. I just sat in my car and cried for I don't know how long, but it was a long time.
Bear.
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My light bulb moment came to me in therapy. I started therapy because I thought something was wrong with me. In my twenties I suffered from social angst and overall low self-esteem (among a plethora of other things) and thought I was just normal that way and I had to live like that. Then in my thirties I couldn't deal with it any longer and it was putting a strain on my relationship with my boyfriend, who is now my husband.
While in therapy, my [great] therapist had me talk about college and why I dropped out. He guided me into talking about my college days and what was going on with me at home-- and then there it was, the BRIDGE. The bridge between my NM and my failing grades in High School then into college. I never, ever connected the two before. All along I thought I was stupid and too dumb to learn anything intellectual or intelligent. I felt lower than other students and mindfully started at the bottom for no damn reason other than my NM told me I was not good enough.
After that therapy session, I left and actually had to pull my car over onto a side street and I slumped over my steering wheel like a sack of potatoes and bawled. I cried for all the hurt my NM inflicted upon me for 36 years. I just sat in my car and cried for I don't know how long, but it was a long time.
Bear.
((((((((((Bear)))))))))) I understand that hurt. It just makes you want to go numb. My NM told me to go to a certain school because our neighbor did. I really did want to go. Three months in she told me that they wouldn't pay anymore and I needed to drop out. I went to my Grandfather and he loaned me money to finish. I had all but $200.00 paid back to him before I got married. For my wedding present from him he said that I was paid in full. You know, if I said that I didn't like the school they probably would have kept paying...NM was so hurtful in so many ways. They make it so hard to go through life in a normal loving way...we could have had it so much better.
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Lightbulb moment:
I'm in hospital.
Just had babies.
Beautiful, amazing babies.
Holding, cuddling, feeding.
NM comes.
NM ignores beautiful, amazing, and only grandbabies.
NM screams at me.
NM criticizes me for not leaving a long enough message on her voicemail.
NM grabs beautiful, amazing baby.
NM makes horrible smooching noises.
NM gives me dirty looks while holding beautiful amazing baby.
I nearly vomit.
All similar incidents of past abuse flash before my eyes.
I feel lightheaded.
I feel the blurred vision.
I am going to pass out.
But, wait, I have beautiful amazing babies.
Can't go now, must stay.
Don't need NM anymore.
Have what I need.
I breathe.
I take baby back.
I breathe some more.
Joy
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I've had a lot of lightbulb moments over the years, but the first came when I was pregnant with my son. I was moving house and there were various arrangements made with different people doing different things, loaning vehicles and coming over at different times. Suddenly it all started to go wrong; people were cancellling or just failing to show up. I ended up doing most of the move on my own, six months pregnant. I was so hacked off I had a go at a couple of people about it - very not like me in those days - and to cut a long story sideways it transpired my mum had re-arranged things without me knowing and had told people I'd made other arrangments and didn't need their help. Even then I thought I must have got it wrong and convinced myself it was wrong of me to want or need help. Over the next couple of weeks a couple more things came to light and slowly it dawned on me that it was my mum causing trouble, not me. Seven months pregnant, I was sat in my therapy session asking the therapist if she could help me be more independent because I was so unreasonable in wanting people to help me all the time and I made unreasonable demands on them. Bless her, she very gently said that it wasn't unreasonable for a woman who was eight weeks away from giving birth to ask the baby's father to put some shelves up and the baby's grandmother to help with the unpacking in the new house. I felt like i'd been punched. Suddenly i couldn't make excuses any more and I had to start facing up to the fact that these people simply didn't care about me enough to help me or want the best for me.
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I've had a lot of lightbulb moments over the years, but the first came when I was pregnant with my son. I was moving house and there were various arrangements made with different people doing different things, loaning vehicles and coming over at different times. Suddenly it all started to go wrong; people were cancellling or just failing to show up. I ended up doing most of the move on my own, six months pregnant. I was so hacked off I had a go at a couple of people about it - very not like me in those days - and to cut a long story sideways it transpired my mum had re-arranged things without me knowing and had told people I'd made other arrangments and didn't need their help. Even then I thought I must have got it wrong and convinced myself it was wrong of me to want or need help. Over the next couple of weeks a couple more things came to light and slowly it dawned on me that it was my mum causing trouble, not me. Seven months pregnant, I was sat in my therapy session asking the therapist if she could help me be more independent because I was so unreasonable in wanting people to help me all the time and I made unreasonable demands on them. Bless her, she very gently said that it wasn't unreasonable for a woman who was eight weeks away from giving birth to ask the baby's father to put some shelves up and the baby's grandmother to help with the unpacking in the new house. I felt like i'd been punched. Suddenly i couldn't make excuses any more and I had to start facing up to the fact that these people simply didn't care about me enough to help me or want the best for me.
(((((((((Two))))))))))
It's so sad that we make excuses for these people when they SHOULD be doing what we ask of them. We are right there for them when they ask. It's a long road working on getting the dignity we deserve. I need to get mad at myself to make sure that I do get it. Being taught NOT to get mad makes it a struggle for me. When I came home from the hospital after our third child was born my husband chased my parents away and told them that he would take care of me...he left me upstairs with a newborn, one 18 months and one three year old. We had an old house with winding stairs and he just went down stairs, turned on the radio and had friends in to celebrate our new baby. When I yelled down the steps for help with the kids and something to eat he couldn't hear me. We had no supper that night and I was exhausted. When he came to bed he wondered why all these kids were in the bed!!! I should have really let him have it, but, I didn't want to make him mad. I really feel stupid for all of the stuff that I let him get away with! It's a real battle to let myself feel anger and joy because of living for other people, but slowly I'm getting there. I have a good friend now that says to me, "Why shouldn't you feel that way?" Ah, those words are music to my ears!
I didn't mention the worst part of this. When I first got home, I was putting pj's and diapers on the two toddlers while my husband and mother argued with each other from opposite sides of the bed...right over top of us!!! I look back now and think how nice it would have been to have one of them changing the kids and the other making our dinner. I don't know how I made it through this crazy life so far. I'm ready to reward myself somehow. Here comes the tears...the realization of what happened seems so much more real here on this board. We deserve so much better for ourselves.
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I'm curious ... those of you who have realized that one or both parents were narcissists and that they were the weird and disturbed one in the relationship ... what brought you to your "light-bulb moment" when you realized what was happening?
I really didn't get it, despite all my education, until my dad died and my mother suddenly got a lot worse. One day she was kind of self-aggrandizing and later I turned to my husband and said, "you know, I think my mother is a bit narcissistic." He said, "uh huh, she is." And the light turned on.
I had had a difficult relationship with my parents for years because they continued to treat me like a child, and then whenever anything happened with my mom involved, I ended up being the one in the wrong but I didn't get that she was actually DOING that (gaslighting), I just thought I was wrong. And I was frustrated and angry. But to me it was normal.
I knew for YEARS that the NWomb-Donor HATED me and did EVERYTHING she could to destroy me but failed. I didn't have a name for her cr*p until a few years ago!
Bones
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This is a great thread (((Heart)))). I just had my light bulb moment and I have been on the Board for 3 years. I had NC and then answered the phone by accident and started talking to her.
Her lack of feeling was glaring cuz I had not talked to her in almost 2 years.
The moment when I realized that she had NO feelings for me was when we were talking about a time when I was 13 and slept at a friends house. The F was acting creepy to me and I called to come home. I was crying hysterically cuz I knew that the F would hurt me if I stayed. They lived an hour and a half from us so I could not walk or get home any other way .
My M said--PROUDLY----"I would have left you there but your F wanted to get you."
That was it. It was not the worst moment by far but I saw it! xxooo Ami
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Hi fellow pilgrims,
All of your light-bulb moments are touching ... some took my breath away ... I hope that there will be more light-bulb moments posted. I am still grieving because my daughter in law doesn't seem to have had a light-bulb moment yet. Maybe she has but she is still too hurt and damaged to do much about it yet. She won't be my daughter in law long, and enough stuff has settled down for my son that I can "afford" to feel compassion for the her. I sincerely hope she has had her LB moment, or will have it soon, so that my grandbaby will not have to live in the hell-hole the DIL grew up in.
The LB moment that struck me the hardest was this ...
But, wait, I have beautiful amazing babies.
Can't go now, must stay.
Don't need NM anymore.
Have what I need.
I breathe.
I take baby back.
I breathe some more.
Joy
Butterfly, I know that your actual name is "Joy" but the way you wrote this, it was almost like a haiku ... and at the end there was Joy.
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GTNBR
I didn't mention the worst part of this. When I first got home, I was putting pj's and diapers on the two toddlers while my husband and mother argued with each other from opposite sides of the bed...right over top of us!!! I look back now and think how nice it would have been to have one of them changing the kids and the other making our dinner. I don't know how I made it through this crazy life so far. I'm ready to reward myself somehow. Here comes the tears...the realization of what happened seems so much more real here on this board. We deserve so much better for ourselves.
What's maddest is that we actually think this kind of thing is okay and we accept it as being normal. Friends of mine have just had their first baby. They left the hospital with their beautiful little girl at tea time and drove to his mum's house for dinner, where the whole family were waiting to see the baby. They were fed, MinLaw gave them frozen meals she'd made up so they don't need to worry about cooking for a while and her mum is going over every day to do housework, laundry etc so the new mum can concentrate on the baby. That's normal - that's what normal people do when someone's had a baby. I was on my own with my little boy from day one. My mum didn't do a thing - in fact, she used to come round, sit there whilst I fed him, changed him, dressed him, fed him again and then I'd get up to make some tea and she'd comment on how long she'd had to wait before she got a drink! She didn't lift a finger. And do you know what p***ed her off the most? I coped amazingly with him and I didn't need her help. I'm sure she thought I'd crumble and beg her to do something to help me.
I used to be like you used to, G, not wanting to make a fuss or cause any bother - not any more!
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I was running around trying to get everyone's breakfast, get me ready, get the baby ready and I couldnt find my H. I finally found him soaking in a hot tub with skin softener. I was like: what the HELL??? He was offended that I would begrudge him the time to soak since his skin was itching him. He didnt get it that I was 5 days postpartum and his big concern was his itchy skin.
That was the day I knew.
My mother was vacationing in Cancun. :shock:
CB
CB, I laughed out loud when I read this - not because I think it's funny in a 'ha ha' kind of way but just at that level of complete and utter selfishness and inability to think about anyone or anything else. I went in to labour early at 28 weeks - rang the hospital who told me to get up there straight away and rang my mum to give me a lift there. As I sat alone waiting for her to arrive, watching my belly go in and out as the contractions happened, I kept telling myself it only felt like she was taking ages because I was worrying and not doing anything. The truth was it felt like ages because it was ages and do you know why? When I called to tell her I was having contractions and needed to get to hospital she'd only just got in from walking the dogs - so before she left to come and get me she had a shower and changed her clothes.
I think the lightbulb moments dawn with babies because you start to realise how badly your parents treated you compared to how you treat your own kids. I think you also realise there's so much you do differently - and that's because what you went through was bad and did you damage. Throughout my pregnancy I kept getting this nagging voice pointing out all the things I didn't want to do with my son that my mum had done with me - it gets so you can't ignore the fact it must have been wrong if you don't want to do it yourself. As he got older, I found it harder and harder to excuse the things she did (and still does). I've been on my own for eight years with my boy and life has been HARD!!!!!!!!! But I've never done any of the stuff to him that she did to me, despite how tough things have been for me. I also know that I'd never, ever do to him the things she's done to me as an adult - I want to help him and support him, not destroy him. Life is hard enough without your own family batting against you.
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Can I say - in a non-N way! - that I am really jealous of you guys who have babies. It's not just about having someone to love so much who is part of you; I just wish I was brave enough to have a baby but I have always been scared that N will continue with me - I have an NGM AND and NM...pretty scary.
Maybe this is another lightbulb moment???
P.
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P, I think having a baby really focuses you and clears a lot of that N baggage out of the way. You just don't have the same time and energy available to keep putting up with cr*p behaviour from other people. I also found that I had to cut a lot of difficult people out of my life because I feel you have to lead by example and I didn't want my son growing up thinking these people were role models. So whilst it is/can be scary, in another way it's incredibly liberating. I also think just being aware of your own behaviour and the difficulties you've experienced with other people's means that you can knock any N tendancies on the head before they get problematic. I often hear myself thinking or saying something my mum would say and it is scary. But it does at least alert me to another area of myself to work on. And unlike my mum, if I do or say something I later regret I will apologise to the person involved. We all get it wrong sometimes but I think being able to accept that and move on from it is part of being human.
It's really not that scary! Once you find your rhythm life gets really nice and for me I've been able to give my son the childhood I never got which has helped me to heal in certain ways. I play with him as much as I can, read to him, we make stuff and just spend time together. My mum never did that with me so I'm getting to do all the stuff I missed out on as a child with my boy now. The day I had him was a bit of a blur, what with the messy business of giving birth and then loads of visitors through the day. But I woke up early the next morning, took him in my arms and sat looking down at him and I can't ever put into words that thunderbolt that hit me right there and then. I'd never felt love like it; on the one hand it's really tender because you have this tiny little thing in your arms that's just so sweet and cute looking, but on the other there's something almost savage about it because I knew at that minute I'd kill for my boy without even thinking about it. That protective streak is really strong, and I think sometimes stronger in people who were abused themselves as children? I know it goes the other way and you get parents that don't care because they were abused and that's how they cope, but in others I think there's this really strong urge to protect your child in a way that you were never protected.
Having him was the best thing I ever did and I would always say to anyone thinking about having a child to go for it - if you're determined to be a good parent then you can overcome anything that's a problem along the way. There have been some really painful times but since I had my boy my mum's power over me just got less and less and less until she didn't matter at all. He's definitely changed me for the better and made me a much stronger and healthier person. I say go for it!! xx
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We have all had such betrayal and yet we seem to be so much better M's than ours. Somehow, we can still feel and I don't know when we can when we were treated so badly.
I am always amazed at the compassion and kindness from D's of N's when they themselves were treated with no feeling.
(((((((Us)))))) xxxoo Ami
(((((Dr G))) for giving us the Board!
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We have all had such betrayal and yet we seem to be so much better M's than ours. Somehow, we can still feel and I don't know when we can when we were treated so badly.
I am always amazed at the compassion and kindness from D's of N's when they themselves were treated with no feeling.
(((((((Us)))))) xxxoo Ami
(((((Dr G))) for giving us the Board!
Amen Ami! Hugs to all of us moms giving love, kindness and support for our children. So glad that we didn't go the other way!
Dr. G, this board is the greatest therapy for our souls. Thanks for letting our voices be heard!!!
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I never had a TRUE light bulb moment. Took me over forty years to even REALIZE there was something wrong with my mother and my relationship. But, as usual, I thought it was MY fault. Started going to therapy in 2005 for depression relating to my cancer diagnosis. After that improvrd, I started talking to my T about other issues, including my M. He told me he thought she was an N. I was shocked, initially, but, with my T explaining things, it was like putting the pieces of a puzzle together.
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Mostly, this board - lots of those moments - thank goodness.
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Thanks, Ami, getnbtr, and Portia! I'm so glad the Board has been useful!
Richard
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Persephone,
I think that being a mother was, for me, a crash course in NOT being an N. When my 3rd child was small, I was in over my head. My husband was never home, so I was alone alot. And I would melt down regularly--crying or yelling--generally acting like a selfish, selfabsorbed child myself. I remember the lightbulb moment I had about that! I kinda parented myself in a no-nonsense-this-behavior-will-no-longer-be-tolerated sort of way. And I set out from that point to quit being so selfish. I really think I had the option of staying stuck there.
I acknowledged that I had not been parented well and that I was pretty wounded and needed to not pass that on to my kids. I struggled with touch--a bad thing with kids. They need touch so badly. So, I really committed myself to breastfeeding and to wearing my babies in slings and sleeping with them. It helped a lot. I also made myself simplify my life since I melt down easily when I feel overwhelmed. And I read lots and lots and created my own role models for parenting.
I dont think its easy for us when we were parented so badly. To have no real co-parent, on top of that, is very difficult. But I have grown children now who are very grateful for their growing up years. I heard that two of my adult kids talked to each other this week about their perceptions of growing up. Their shared opinion was that there were places in their lives where they didnt get what they needed. They admit that that hurts and that they will have to work on those wounds. They also agreed that I did the best I could with the circumstances I was handed. I dont know if you can ask for more than that.
I wanted to create a perfect childhood for my kids--probably to experience it vicariously for myself--and learned in the process that there is no such thing. But I was able to give them so much of myself because I struggled my way through my own wounds. Its still a struggle. I wish I could hit a place where it wasnt.
CB
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Saved my mental health Dr G. Would anyone off-board really believe that? Does it matter? I think not! :D
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" I never had a TRUE light bulb moment. Took me over forty years to even REALIZE there was something wrong with my mother and my relationship. But, as usual, I thought it was MY fault. "
Me too, Judy!!!!! When I learned M was N, it was so disorienting. I questioned everything in my life because I felt I had lived with blinders on. Hope you're doing & feeling better.
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My first lightbulb about Nmom was when I had a bf (or THOUGHT I had a bf, in fact I had a fantasy romance with an incredibly, incredibly charming maN) -- an anthropologist -- who kept talking about how his mother was a narcissist. I got curious (part of my obsession with understanding HIM), went online, found the big guru whose intitials are s and v... and whammo. Life had an explanation.
After that, it was more like a chandelier with a dimmer switch (and all the bulbs on different timers). One began to glow, then another, now and then one would burst from glow to glare, and now the whole damn thang is so bright it could light the White House.
And that's good.
I can still walk through the room and trip on shadows, though. I've installed bumper pads.
love,
Hops
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My lightbulb moment was when I noticed the words 'Self Absorbed' on the front of Children of the Self Absorbed. It was the way my H described my parents.
On the subject of having babies, it had an unpleasant effect on me. Having a child who rightly demanded so much of my time and energy, put me over the top. It was too much like my NF and mother's expectations. It brought to the surface so many negative feelings, it.....stunk.