Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Lupita on March 08, 2010, 04:39:27 PM
-
He dovoted 100 % to me our last dancing out wich was Saturday 6. He was kind of bored. I do not want to take all the fun away from him. Plus he needs the validation other women give him.
So, I am doing this thread to see if I can brain storm some behaviors to help others and my self in the same situation.
I am not ready to finish with him. I feel attachments. I know if I finish now I will regret. I have to be totally secure that I have exhausted all my resources before I precede in a denitive way.
So, here is an article. He put his chick on a woman last Monday. Today we are going to that class. I made it very clear that I was mad. He said he is going to behave. I will see how he behaves today.
I will let you know tonight how he did. Wish me luck.
How to handle a flirtatious boyfriend
You know he's your guy. Or at least, you were pretty sure, until you began noticing some distressing little behaviors. The problem? He's a flirt. He tells you you're the one--then he proceeds to flash his cute smile at every girl he sees. Why does he do this? Should you accept it as some defective male gene, or should you dump him and move on to someone who only has eyes for you? Only you can decide, but read on for some pointers. Tips for handling a flirtatious boyfriend:
· Realize that his ego is at stake, and he's dealing with the same insecurities as you and your friends. It's normal for a guy to want to feel loved and adored by everyone. His way of getting the attention he craves is to flirt.
· Try to satisfy some of your boyfriend's need to feel special by telling him how great you think he is, and by showing him how important he is to you. Some over-the-top compliments never hurt, either: "Hey, you're the funniest/cutest/smartest/hairiest legged guy in school," could do wonders for a guy's self-esteem, and might curb his need to get attention from other sources.
· Tell him how you feel about his flirting. Let him know that you don't like it when he flirts with other girls. If he really cares about you, he'll probably try to be sensitive to your feelings. He might not even realize he's doing it!
· Don't flirt with other guys to get revenge! Remember, your boyfriend is flirting because he's insecure. If you start flirting it'll just make him feel worse, and probably push the two of you apart even more. (Besides, you're the mature one, right?)
· If he still can't restrain himself, and his flirtatious behavior continues to bother you, don't hesitate to bail on the guy! If he's so insecure that he compulsively flirts at your expense, you don't need him!
· Top tip: DON'T TAKE HIS FLIRTING PERSONALLY! It usually has nothing to do with a girl not being pretty, charming or witty enough, but is instead 100% the guy's personal problem. In other words, he'd do it to anyone he's dating! (The same goes for flirtatious girls). It just means he has some major growing up to
So, here is the article.
-
I would have no idea what to do Lupita. I wish there were some more guys on this Board . We ran them all off LOL Ami
-
Top tip: DON'T TAKE HIS FLIRTING PERSONALLY! It usually has nothing to do with a girl not being pretty, charming or witty enough, but is instead 100% the guy's personal problem. In other words, he'd do it to anyone he's dating! (The same goes for flirtatious girls). It just means he has some major growing up to do....
How can you NOT take it personally! You are a person and you are the person he is supposed to be with. I do agree that it doesn't say anything about how pretty, charming or witty you are....But is that really what you want to tell the woman he is flirting with..."By the way, I am witty, charming and pretty?" I would think what you would want and need is respect.
At that moment "SHE" had the full attention of your date which says that "HE" placed so little value on how you FELT that he would flirt with a new woman right in front of you!!!!
If someone did that to me, I would probably go on the offensive and quickly define the situation, making a quick comment indicating that my date and I were just friends. He is acting like a friend and not a date so things just changed. I accept it. I'm now just as free as he is to flirt...Why am I wasting time standing here!! It's time to mingle.
I would tell him I was going to get a drink and....leave him with the new Ms. Right. I would leave no doubt in his mind about how I felt but do it in such a way as to not insult the woman who is essentially his next victim!!
There are times when I go out with a male friend and we both understand we are not a couple. That is very different from what you are describing. I say don't put up with it.
-
Actually, I wouldn't sweat it.
I have been off this board for a while, but those who remember me know I am an exotic dancer for a living and also a flirt just for the hell of it. My husband of 7 1/2 years does NOT take it personally. He knows I am his and that when I flirt with someone, it's just a game. Usually the other person knows it, too.
We flirts do what we do for a variety of reasons. Maybe some people are insecure. Sometimes people don't know any other way to relate to others. Sometimes it's just fun. But it sounds like you guy is cute, charming, witty, and nice, and EVERYONE notices it.
One thing I am wondering, does your guy even consider what he is doing as flirting? Maybe he is just being friendly and making conversation. For example, if he is one of those touchy people who is always laying his hand on someone's arm when he is trying to make a point, and he also leans in close to hear the person and smiles and makes eye contact, most people could read that as flirting. But the same behavior could mean he is just listening closely and paying attention to the speaker.
Maybe you could talks to him about what specific behaviors you consider as "crossing the line." If he does particular things that make you uncomfortable, then you can ask him to curtail those behaviors. Or you could ask him to lavish extra attention on you, so that every woman in the room (including YOU)has no doubt that YOU are the loved and adored girlfriend, and all he is going to do with any one else is talk.
-
Hi Lupita,
There is 'social' flirting and there's the 'other' kind that is disrespectful to your date.
I find it horrible when a couple walks down the street and the guy stares are other women - it's insulting to his date.
I am a really jealous person and I could never be with someone who flirts the 'other' way, but have to admit that I have been with one specific person who was just being social and very pr person and there was nothing wrong with that.
I know with dance you can overstep the boundaries - I have graduated from classical dance. I remember at one point we were left with only one guy and when we were rehearsing and he had to lift us, he wouldn't miss an opportunity to grab our a***s.
It's up to you what you'll do with the relationship and to decide for yourself if this is something you can tolerate or not.
-
Lupita,
I wish you the best in what ever way you decide to do in this relationship.
Be well, seasons
-
i am building so much resentment that i do not know how much more i can tolerate. i am almost about to explote. getting depressed.
-
Lupe,
I am so sorry you have gotten to this point. I guess its obvious that you have reached the place where it is time to end it? Therapy right now--when the feelings are so intense--might really help you sort some things out. I suspect there are a lot of betrayals all wrapped up in your anger at this man.
Thinking of you, Lupita,
CB
-
SOunds like it's time to take a break from the relationship, Lupe.
So sorry you're in pain (((Lupita)))
Mo2
-
Lupita
Ont thing I think I can say, safely, is that you are re-experiencing childhood wounds. WHAT is you and what is him? What is old ? What is real?
Those are the hard questions.
Maybe,coming here and writing all your feelings will help.
Write about how it feels to be betrayed and rejected etc--etc etc
All if it!
Ami
-
Hi Lupita,
I once had a therapist say something VERY interesting. I don't know whether it's a truism or not but it gave me a lot to think about anyway:
You are drawn to relationships to people of the opposite gender with whom you will re-enact, and re-enact, your conflict with your parent of your gender. Until you are finished doing that.
I figured out I'd had a lot of boyfriends who were all about my mother.
AAAGGGH. But it was really helpful.
love to you,
Hops
-
knew that, i made a comment about that to you when you fell in love with yoiur T and then your friend the gardener. I mentioned that I DID THE SSAME ALL MY LIFE. And keep doing it. Just now, do not want to be alobe again. I have been alone for too long now. I do not want to be alone again.
yesterday we went dancing and every thing went wonderful until he "flirted" he grabbed the arm of a woman he was dancing the other day with a way to look at her that I told him, the way you look at her when you dance is the reason that you send mixed messages. Then they start sending you e maisl and calling you becasue they think there is a chance. That is what M does. Sewnds mixed messages and then lonely women get mislead. I told him that is is converting into an emotional predator if he keeps doing that.
But women see that he is devoted to me all the time, that we spend all dance otgether, he only dances with them during class, and sometimes not even diuring class, all the real party he devoestes to me, but these women are so stupid that they think that they have a chance. The only thing they do is inflate hi sego, and that is why he does it.
So, the ned of the party we wnet to a night club and found friends there, he danced with me all the time,. and when we were living he made a small snesual movemnent to say good bye to my female friend who was saaying good bvye to me and I told him again yuu are "flirting" and my friend did not correspond to his advance that was only ofr a second.
he said that he is diminishing his flirting little by little.
I think that he has diminished a lot and I am not giving him prase for that little he does. That is a mistake on my part to. I have to give him positive re-inforcement when he does something good like the do to animals or to shamu in seaworld. Men are animnals that need to be trained and shape behavior like in the circus. I am mad now, but if I act reasobly I might be able to shape his behavior to a tolerable form that we can love eachother.
What do you think friends?
-
I hurt him because I told him that women stand in line to dance with him not because of his dancing abilities but becuase what he makes them feel. aNMD THAT is what I am gainst up. he said he was going to stop. But just last night he grabbed the arm of that woman. I told him that she could have thought that it was an invitation to dance. Fortunately for her, she did not responded and she only said hi. Fortunately for her because I was not going to allow it. IO did it before and he stayed with me. He did nto go with the women, he asked me permission to dance with her when that other women long time ago asked him to dance with me there by him, he asked and I said no and I was going to do the same last night. That woman did not respond to his gran arm, he said that he was being "friendly" and he was playing only. Ho Hoi ho Ho ho and I belive in santa Clause.
But that is nothign compared to what he did before. He spent all night danicng with other women and danced with me just a little. Not he does not dance with anybody, just with me.
So, now is just the flirting. And now all those women kind of left us alone. This time I went to the bath room and nobody came to ask him. They did it before. They waited till I went to the nathroom and askewd him to dance. When I came out of the bathroom he was dancing. One day I pretended I went to the bathroom and there they came to my table three women. Now he only dances with me. He usually goes out opn his own on Wednesday. Yesterday he told me that he wants me to come with him on Wednesday too. I hope I do not impose my presence too much. I am 54 he is 66. So, at least I can show younger than his friends. he knows that he wuill not ghet anopther women with education and a career like me.
Anyway, there is where I am today. We are going walking this afternoon and dancing tonight. Tomorrow I have to work. he has his onw business so he can do whatever he wants.
OK friends, keep talking to me. I need your friendship.
-
If he is a liar and a flirt, then that's what he is, Lupe.
There's no amount of policing his behavior that will change him..... and you're not built for that life anyhow.
It's just too much work for too much pain, IMO.
If he's innocently flirty, then perhaps you have a chance.
Sounds like he's manipulating you, and all those other women, from where I sit, and my views not so good from here.
Enjoy what you have, while you have it. At least the dancing's good.
-
Lupita,
When I look at a situation I like to turn it around and see if from different directions. For instance I will put myself in the shoes of the other women, in his shoes and in mine and try to see it from all angles.
One thing I am wondering about here. You said the women are leaving him alone. Is it normally the same group of women each time you go out? In other words are they leaving him alone because they don't like what they see or is the message "stay away" coming from his behavior and body language?
S
-
no need to worry anymore.
He broke up with me last night.
He got mad because I was sad because he was dancing close chick to chick in tango class with another woman that I already had asked him not to do ti. He promised he was not going to do it again.
He did.
I was sad and did not want to dance anymore.
I sat down. Tow people asked me what happened and I said I was tired.
When he took me home, he asked me for the key to his house. He told me to gorw up and then he told me that he was very happy before and enjoyed dancing with many women and he did not have any reason to have an agony with me. He is right. I was agonizing watching him dance with other women. I will not call him. If he contacts me I might not resist to hug him and tell him how much a love him. But I will not call him because deep in my heart I know that I am taking away the fun from him. He likes tyo flirt and touich other women even if he does not do anything else but dance close and touch, I sitll feel very bad when he does. So, maybe he did the right thing. Something I would have never done. Still, it feels very bad. I feel very sad. Alone again. It feels so lonely here.
-
Lupita
I am thinking that it MIGHT be all in your head. I am NOT saying it is but perhaps it is the damage from your NM . Perhaps, you could talk to him about your childhood fears and pains at the hands of that horrible creature.
Perhaps,you and he could bond even deeper .
*I* would do that if it were me. Ami
-
Oh, gee I'm sorry Lupita.
This too, shall pass.
Mo2
-
thank you. the loneliness is pushing on my throat. It is just this sensation that noboy wants me. He could not give up the chick to chick dance and I could not tolerate it. No possible solution.
oh wow. Alone again.
Always alone.
Rejected at birth, rejected forever. The damage is irreparable and the consequences do not let you live a normal life.
I am so sad.
-
One thing I know. I do not want anybody from the tango community. Because I know now that it will be the same pain. I cannot resist my man being touch and hugged and put chick to chick with another woman. I know that now. So, I cannot have a partner from the tango community. I cannot go to tango and put up with the pain of seeing him with other women.
So, I am screwed. It is so sad. I cannot have fun.
It is so lonely here. It is so sad here.
-
*I* would sit down and tell him how you felt as a child and how scary it is when you don't feel loved and special. Ami
-
I already did that. he does not understand. He is very ignorant.
Last night he sent me a text message that said, I am in a meeting. I answered him saying what meeting, he answered with my next danced partner since you do not want to dance with me anymore. I wrote back again saying that I never said that. I said that I loved him. He never wrote me back. I called him and he put my call to his answering automated service.
I was a lone at my house, I was crying, I was not bothering him, why would he send me a message to tell me that he was with another dancer? why? HE did not need to send me that. Why did he do that?
Is he playing with my mind? Is he hurting too? did he send it just to hurt me?
-
Ok
I would have said "I get very afraid when I feel love is taken away i.e. I see you dancing with other woman. It makes me feel like I could die cuz my M was so scary.
I go in to a crazy funk and feel like *I* am gonna die when that happens.
It is MY problem--not yours.
Would YOU be willing to work with me on MY issues such as this? When I get afraid can I tell you?
You can dance with woman but can you respect my feelings and can we talk them out?
If you said this or something like it and the guy is clueless------then you have to say good bye. I agree. Ami
-
Hi Lupe
I am so sorry that you are going through this. This kind of pain cuts to the very heart of who you are. I have some ideas for you, but I dont think they will make the pain go away--but they may give it more meaning in your life.
I hope that you will not stay long in your feelings of being abandoned and alone. Some of these feelings can have different meaning depending on how you interpret them. You have not been abandoned--you were clear with this man about your limits and he could not live with those limits. You each understood that for him to dance with other women in this way was a deal breaker. You set the limit, and he could not go a long with it. The limits that you set were true to your values and you can be at peace with that.
Another way to look at the aloneness: with your last boyfriend, he drove you absolutely nuts because he wouldnt leave you alone. In those days, you would have LOVED some alone time. So, alone is sometimes good...sometimes it is something that you choose...sometimes it feels very empowering. Right now, alone feels really, really bad. I thnk you can find a little insight if you look at why?
You set up a choice for your boyfriend where he had to choose between you and dancing cheek-to-cheek with other women. When you set up that choice, he chose dancing with other women. In a sense, he also set up a choice: allow me to dance with other women, or choose to live without me. You each made your choice, and both choices hurt. His hurts, yours hurts. But you made the only choice you could live with at this point.
You said in one of your posts that men have to be trained to behave a certain way. I dont think it really works that way, and I think that the struggle you had with him is the reason why. Training someone (anyone--man or woman) means that they didnt CHOOSE a behavior. When someone chooses for themselves, and not just because they dont want your reaction, then that choice will carry over when you arent present, or when you two are having a bad day. Letting someone choose is always better than training them.
You are probably responding to him, as Ami says, out of your pain from the past. And you can ask him to stop dancing with women based on the fact that your sense of value is damaged when he does. But you should also realize that he may be doing what he does out of his OWN damaged sense of value. He may think he needs this attention from other women in order to feel good about himself. (BTW, this is probably at least some of the reason why people take dance classes---very few are in it for technical reasons...and the major dance studios usually play to that reason when they make their sales pitch!) Can you extend that same understanding to him? Can you say, I will continue to live with this misplaced need for attention, because I know it comes out of your woundedness?
At any rate, if your relationship were to continue, you would be in a constant tug of war over whose need for value got fulfilled: he doesnt dance, and you feel valued but he doesnt. He does dance, he feels valued, you dont. One of you has to break the pattern and decide to get your value somewhere else. In a sense, you each decided that you could not do that.
Something I noticed as you wrote about your unhappiness, was that the other women in the dance group figured into the scenario quite a bit. As a matter of fact, I wonder if they werent the REAL cause of your pain. It was as though he were the prize and you and the other women were fighting for him. I dont know if the fight was real or imagined--but it was very painful for you. You have been as angry with them for approaching him as you were to him for accepting. I think there are some mother-wounds there, and I hope you will sit with those feelings for a bit and see what comes up. Maybe you can also examine what it would take to feel that you had already won the prize.
Why in the world did he text you last night??? He could be a real ass--although, in my experience, real asses dont bother, they just go along their merry way doing whatever they wanted to do in the first place. It could be that he genuinely did not want to make the choice that he did, and is reacting out of pain.
I could give you all kinds of advice about how you could have, should have done things...or even what to do now. But anything I said would be just that--my response--and I think you should sit with your story a bit and see how you want it to end. Its your story and you can write the ending. You may not be able to get him to quit dancing with other women, you may not be able to get him to stay. But you can write it as lonely, or making an important choice in your life that left you without a boyfriend. You can choose to never tango again, or you can explore what this has uncovered about your wounds that needs to be healed.
I hope you dance.
Much, much love, Lupita,
CB
-
CB made great points !
Are you this centered in your day to day life ?
I wish I were lol.
-
Oh my, Lupe.
His texting you, out of the blue, about meeting with other dancers is hurtful, IMO.
Why do you think he told you that?
Be sad.
Cry, but keep busy with your normal activities and find new people to share your life with.
It'll get better.
It always does.
Don't you know that by now ((((Lupita?)))
-
It is not exactly the dancing, it is how close he dances. It is the closeness. I am willing to tolerate him dancing with other women. Not close.
He says that he has to dance close.
He emailed me on Wednesday, he asked me if I wanted to be his dance partner. I answered, him, "no, I want to be your love number 1 and dance partner number 2 in that order"
I asked him if I was paying for counceling if he would go, he said no, He said he is going to put the effort. He started joking and saying that he was going to build a bird cage for his face, then he said if he put a towel between him and the dancer if I would be satisfied.
I think on the sweat, your sweats go together when you dance and put your cheeks together and the warmness of the body, and the pressure on your breast fomr his chest and the air of his breathingf on your neck, that is too much for me to put up.
Tango is a dance that can be dance in a nice frame of in close embrace. That is a choice. many men choose close for opbvious reasons.
I believe that women want to dfanc eiwht him because of what he makes them feel and not for his dancing abilities. I went out with him on Wednesday, he dedicated the night to me and did not dance with others.
I
-
Owwww/ I'm so sorry Lup.
I don't know if I could handle a tango man either.
It's hard to get the love you want and be safe within yourself.
But with every reaching out you've done, you've grown so much and learned SO much.
It's really important to respect yourself for that, you know?
Don't punish yourself for how this turned out, hon.
It's not a "bad" ending. It's just an ending.
Life offers just as many beginnings. You will have more beginnnings!
Probably, what you really want most, lonely lovely lady, is a middle.
(I want a happy settled MIDDLE. But I guess we have to allow a lot of beginnings to get there...and then one day, we find somebody we can build a middle with.)
Big hugs, tissues, goofy movies, love to you, this pain will pass...
you know it will. Time just does that, heals us, when we let it. Trust time.
love,
Hops
-
Thank you Mo2 and Ami.
CB, your answer mesmerises me, you are brilliant. I am reading and re-reading your post.
He gave me back the key to his house. He told me that he did not have any partner dinner, just wanted to grab my attention and also make me suffer, he said he was suffering too and that if this was permanent he was going to miss me very much.
He was abused just like me, alcoholic father and narcissistic mother, he laughs at my jokes, we laugh together until our muscles hurt, we wrestle in bed, and I mean wrestle, I used to wrestle with my son and it was very energetic practice, he goes to all my music presentations, I told him that we had something very special and he did not need another cheek, he had my cheek, my soul and me all.
He sounded like he was going to try.
The problem is that the teacher we have now in tango is very jealous of me and she always try to take him apart from me. When I am almost about to dance with him in the line of dance she calls me to dance with her, when she says switch partners she always switches me very fast when I am with him. This Wednesday that we were dancing for the first dance after our huge fight, she came to us out our hands apart and asked me to dance with her. I was waiting for the moment that M was going to take advantage do that and go for other women but he did not.
I am tempted to ask her to not to do that. To leave me alone with I am with him. But I am afraid that M will get mad at me if I do. `
He promised me that we are going to take only two more classes with this women. But all the fights we have are after her class every Monday.
The close embrace is optional and she is forcing it into our class. Other teachers have a special class for close embrace and you pay for that if you are interested. She is forcing it into the regular classes. I fell uncomfortable that there is a young lady only 18yo still in high school that is being exposed to this and is being hugged by this decrepit old men, including mine.
So, he promised me just two more classes. But if he did not have the opportunity he might not do it. This teacher is providing it.
I am disappointed that he does not care about my feelings at all. I will try again to see if when we change teachers our situation will improve, but now I am more skeptic and less loving. He is wearing me out by attrition.
But I want to be so much so much hurt, that when we break up finally I will not have any regrets. Although I am speaking as if I knew. But I would like to trust that he is a good man and he has the potential to do the right thing.
Tuesday will be the day I will know because all the problems we have are on Monday that we have class with this horrible instructor woman. I am sad that he allows her to damage me.
-
Thank Hops.
I am physically back with him but my mind is not, sure my heart is not back with him. I am very scared that he is going to hurt me again. I will see tomorrow Saturday how he behaves in the dance, we have the most important dance of the month tomorrow Saturday.
Also, today, I will see if he has the urge to dance with other women or he gives me all his attention and if he feels happy to be only with me. Because if it is a huige sacrifice to be with me, then i do not want hjim to be with me. It is not worth it.
Sundays al always nice, It is Monday our bad day. So, I will see how he behaves this Monday and whatever happens, happenes. I have to be prepared. I have to be psychologically prepared. I was not prepared for last Monday. I will be prepared for next Monday.
Help me out here dear friends.
Love you all.
-
You're a STRONG woman and it sounds like you have a good boundary in place now.
You're going to be able to deal with however this turns out, yes you are.
Wow, what a change. You're not panicking.
Good for you!
hugs,
Hops
-
Dear Lupita
I hope you can get on a child to child level and share your wounds. That is the only way to get to the next step. It is easy to keep throwing people away BUT it is hard to each be vulnerable .
There ARE times to throw a relationship away. I am not saying there are not.
However, if you can get through these deep wounds that you BOTH have---together--you will be building something beautiful.
Ami
-
Lupita,
It sounds like he still cares for you very much...I am with Ami--sometimes you need to walk away from a relationship and sometimes you need to hang in there and weather the storm together. I think the biggest damage that children of N's have is not knowing which is which: pain seems to equal no hope and outright abuse seems to equal love. Time is everything, to me...time, time, time. And awareness.
I am sad that he allows her to damage me.
Lupe I think that this is the kind of self-talk that you need to examine closely. One, she is not damaging you. The damage that was done to you was done long ago by your mom. This woman is simply a "stand in" for her in your mind. She is not close enough to you to truly damage you. And you are much to strong to be damaged by someone with as little consequence. She is like a fly buzzing around your face--annoying, but of no real consequence. Same thing with the other women in the group. One year from now you will barely remember them, if you keep their role in all of this in its proper place.
Second, your boyfriend is not allowing anything. You have all the power in this situation. He is not your knight in shining armor--he's not even interviewing for the position! He is a man who loves you and wants to enjoy dancing with you. The dynamics of the group are getting in the way of that, and he may not even know how to maneuver them. Many many men (and women) just let the next thing happen, and they dont know that they can say "no". If there is a class created specifically for close body contact, then your reservations have already been foreseen and affirmed.
I guess what I am saying is that you dont have to feel victimized by this situation. You have a man who loves you, who wants to be with you. You love to dance with him and he loves to dance with you. You are in a group dynamic that you two need to learn to navigate together. That's what you will be doing for the rest of your lives together. Later, you will do it with much less thought because you will know each other so well. But right now you are just learning how to do that.
Think of Monday as an opportunity for you two to learn how to be a couple. Its not a test with a grade. Just watch. Talk to yourself as the evening goes on: what am I feeling when this or that happens? What would make me feel less out of control right here? A clue that I have found: when I feel as though my sweetheart is pulling away (and it is natural and normal that you both do that), I give him lots of room to do that. The immediate instinct is panic and hanging on. But if he needs space and I give it to him, he is getting what he needs and doesnt have to fight for it. And vice versa.
Much love and hope to you, Lupita
CB
-
Thank you CB. Again, you amaze me.
The dance on Saturday was uneventful. The usual lady who fricvks me out came to our table and was moving her hips toward him, he moved away and did not pay attention to her and did not dance with her despite her insistence. After that, she did not bother us the rest of the night.
I wrote him an e mail telling me that hemade me feel the most important woman of the world.
Today we have the horrible class of the hell. For some reason he still wants to take two more classes from her. He wrote me an e-mail saying the he would behave exactly like he behaved on Saturday.
Hope that everything will be fine. I will help too. I will do my part by not looking at him when he is dancing and not to be looking for the little things by watching him all the time. So, I will make him feel comfortable, hopefully.
I will tell you how it was. Now, I believe that he loves me. He just does not know what to do and me niether. I will tell you tomorrow how it was tonight. Love you all dear friends.
-
I am so glad you had a good talk, Lupita. I kinda hoped it would work out for you, because you describe him as being someone that is a good fit for you. Better than the last guy. As a matter of fact, I think the last guy was doomed because he didnt have more spine to him. This guy's appeal may be (at least a little bit) that he pushes back with you. Pushing back is okay, if you guys can work things out over the long haul.
I'll bet tango turns out not to be the dance for you! :? I hope you two find a different dance that you can enjoy. Salsa? Me, I never liked tango that much anyway, so I dont think it would be much of a loss. Salsa is lots more fun and casual, too. I just feel like laughing when I do salsa, but I never do with tango. So, there you have my opinion! :shock:
Anyway, I really want to hear how Monday went. I am kinda thinking you should hunker down and endure the next two weeks and just move on from there. If his flirting is a real problem, it will show up again later--but maybe its just the dumb tango.
Love you, Lupita,
CB
-
What happened to Salsa classes Lupe? You used to enjoy them so much.
((((CB)))) It's so nice to see you back at the board: )
Mo2
-
Last week on Monday he behaved wonderfully. this last weekend we had a Milonga, dance, like a ball, and he behaved wonderfully. Today, we were supposed to take our last class with the teacher of hell, and he called me and told me we were not going. He said that his daughter was coming to visit and he needed to spend time with her. I said, OK. I will call him tomorrow to ask him how was his visit with his daughter.
During the milonga on Saturday, a guy that I dislike, came and asked him in fornt of me if he could come to his house, because he was organizing a milonga in his house to dance with his female friends because he has mane and he needed to recruit men to dance with his women friends. I think that was very mean of that man. I asked M if he would go and he said "I would rush to it" I said that is not what I want to hear, and he said " I like to joke" But he never answered me.
We see each other every single night and for the first time in several months, we are not going to see each other, he says he has to see his daughter. I sincerely hope he is telling me te truth.
I do not think that he is going to miss a dance class because or an informal dancing in a private house, and not on a Monday. I hope.i need to trust him.
I
-
He has demonstrated me that he loves me and that he cares for me. My car did not work yesterday and he stayed with me all day, took me to church, came back and picked me up, followed me to the dealer to take my car, came back home with me, took me to the supermarket, stayed in my house with me, and left in the late afternoon.
He wants to see me everyday. I spend four to five nights at his house during the week.
So, I have no reason to think that he is going to jeopardized our relationship to so something stupid that finally I will know.
Anyway, I always doubt, no matter what he does, it is in my mind, to doubt everything, to believe that I am not lovable and that nobody loves me, I was taught that way.
-
He just called me to tell me that his ex-wife is coming too to see the daughter at his house. Why does she have to come to his house? Why does he let her come to his house? My ex husband would never let me go to his house, not that I want to go, but, he does not talk to me and I do not talk to him. But these two talk all the time.
Why do I have to suffer for something that does matter, who cares, he has to be with his daughter and the mother wants to be there too, probably the daughter is in some kind of trouble and he does not want to tell me because hw know that I have a son in PHD with several publications, and he is ashamed that his children have DUIs, all of them and herpes, and do not have nice jobs, this daughter did not even graduate from college, etc.
I need to trust him, I need to trust. I cannot trust. How can I trust when I could not trust my own mother.
Last time I went to our country she asked me if I learned to play Laura. I had that book and she took it, I am sure she took it because the book disappeared the last time she visited me. How can she ask me? What a coincidence!
Anyway, it is very difficult to trust M. I doubt everything he tells me. Why would he be lying about his daughter and ex-wife visiting? She lives with a friend of both of them. That is why he divorced her. So, he cannot possibly go back to her.
I have no reason to feel bad. If I do not have a reason, I find it. It is the bad man who invited him to go to a milonga at his house or the ex coming to see the daughter at his house.
Please, help me. Why am I always in crisis? I want to be at peace.
-
Hi Lupita,
I once had a therapist say something VERY interesting. I don't know whether it's a truism or not but it gave me a lot to think about anyway:
You are drawn to relationships to people of the opposite gender with whom you will re-enact, and re-enact, your conflict with your parent of your gender. Until you are finished doing that.
I figured out I'd had a lot of boyfriends who were all about my mother.
AAAGGGH. But it was really helpful.
I need to have this tattooed on my arm. ;)
how do you know when you're "done"?l
-
You just wring that rag until not another drop of anger or pain comes out of it.
Wring it hard. Put some vigor into it until you're spent.
Catch your breath.
Then you find you're bored. And just a little way past bored, is "done".
So you take the rag up again and start making art.
Dip it in paint. Go nuts with beauty.
Fill the canvas. Hang it crooked. Paint another one.
Teach a kid to paint.
Play loud music you love and paint barefoot until you're exhausted!
Hops
-
Lupita,
It sounds like you don't trust him and with good reason. His body language is pretty clear. He is available and yet not available. Very mixed message. You are one exuberant, loving, passionate woman who does not need someone who isnt able to commit to you. It is so easy to fall into the trap of accepting less than you deserve when you are lonely.
Worrying about him when you are not there is a pretty good indication that you do not trust him. This is just my opiniion.
Maybe the question is " Why are you putting up with his bullshit?" I used to absolutely hate it when people would say this to me about my ex. I did not want to hear it. Now my rule is if someone lies to me twice, I jetison them out of my life. Even if it hurts. It means they lie and people who lie are very twisted and unreliable. If he does this sort of thing when you are with him, chances are he is twice as bad when you aren't there.
I tell you this in love. Not to break your heart but to whisper to you to run away as fast as you can.
Thinking of you. Glad you are sharing this with us.
Sea storm
-
Remember the trick, Lupita? Of pulling away and looking down at your situation? From a distance?
Get some emtional distance for yourself.
Breath from your stomach.... put one hand on your chest. The other hand, put thumb in belly button and fingers below. Concentrate on breathing so hand on belly moves up and down.
Remember that you're educated, fun, loving Lupita...... with this relationship, and without.
You'll be OK, with or without this man.
Seems to me you're struggling with old pain, and perhaps learning to listen to your instincts, and that's gotta be confusing.
It's difficult to gauge these things.
Following your instincts may be exactly the right thing to do, but you don't want to X out a good relationship bc your mother was abusive.
My advice is to look at the history of this man.
What was he doing when he met you?
That his ex wife and children are close to him may be a very good thing. He may be a very good guy.
On the other hand, and there's always another hand...... your instincts NOT to trust him may be right.
What was he doing when he met you?
Believe what a man does, not what he tells you.
How long has he been divorced? How many relationships has he had? What did he say about them and how they ended? Does he keep in touch with those women? Does he blame everything on his wife ? Does he take responsibility for anything in his life? Is everything everyone elses fault?
\Now, I want to say....... I'm so happy to see you enjoying yourself. You deserve to dance with a worthy partner, Lupita.
-
Lupita,
Its wonderful that you had such a good day with your boyfriend yesterday. Enjoy that! Every minute of it!
I am going to give you a little bit different perspective, but the caveat is that each relationship is made up of the two people that are in it and what is right for them may not be right for anyone else in the whole world. If you are constantly uncomfortable with his behavior, it may not be worth it to keep working at this. Relationships can have hard patches, but if they are a constant drain on your emotions and creativity, they just arent worth it, IMO.
Having said that--his behavior COULD fall within the range of functional. Only you can say if that is good enough for you. But let me tell you how I look at it:You and I are in our 50's. We are not going to "train" any man who is in our age range. (and I am good with that--training men is greatly overrated). We can no longer fool ourselves that we can "change him". The man we love is who he is. I see my job to be to simply find out who he is, and then decide if this is someone I can be with.
For example, you watch to see how he acts when other women wiggle their hips at them. How does he act when you need a ride somewhere or help with something around the house. How does he act when you are sick, upset? How does he act with his children? With his ex wife? What does his apartment look like? His car? How is he with sharing? Does he have any friends?
Me, personally? I do that watching with as little comment as possible. That's for a couple of reasons: one, I dont want him to edit his behavior to make a good impression. It takes a long time to get past the point in a relationship when you are both letting the masks down. Its normal to do that--we are all self-protective. Gradually, we trust the other person enough to let them see the whole us.
If we immediately get critiqued, we put the mask back up again and try to be someone that our lover loves. So, I try not to critique unless its a deal-breaker thing. I want to see the real him as soon as possible. If he treats his kids badly, I want to see that. If he maxes out his credit card, I dont want him to hide that from me. If he is going to have his ex wife over for the weekend, I want him to call me and tell me. See what I am saying? Then I can decide if this is someone I can have a trusting relationship with.
Back to your situation: to me, the fact that he called you to tell you that hhis ex wife is coming is a a good thing.....CB
-
(I started a new post because my Internet Explorer is goofy and the screen jumps)
If he tried to hide the fact that she is coming over, that would be a red flag. If you get very upset about her coming, and he starts hiding that, then you will never know if he is hiding because he has something going on with her, or if he is simply trying to spare himself the scene that will ensue if he tells you. In other words, you wont know who he is.
The one thing you CAN know: he will not tell her to stay home because it would upset you. Women make those sorts of decisions, but men dont. You just have to accept that.
If it were me, I would use this opportunity to ask him (in a non-threatening way) about his relationship with his ex. What is she like? What attracted him to her? What broke them up? What kind of mother is she? How do they parent together since the divorce? etc. If you asked my ex those questions, he would be very negative. If you asked my sweetheart those questions, he would be very positive. He would take blame for his part in the break up. He would say that he is committed to his kids and that she is their mother. He would say that shutting her out of his life, would be shutting them out of his life. And I would look at how well adjusted his kids are, and I would know what kind of man he is. So, something to think about.
This is very hard, I wont deny that. But, I just wanted to let you know that there is another way of looking at it. There is also a lot you will have to do with your feelings and that's hard, too. But for me, it was worth it.
Much love, CB
-
Thank you so much, dear friends, for all your advises. I am looking forward to read more of your thoughts.
Today is Tuesday. We are supposed to be together tonight at his house. He fixes my lunch for the next day and leaves my lunch bag ready. We practice tango and watch TV. He next morning he fixes coffee for me and says good bye to me at the drive way.
Well, he just called and said that he needs to spend more time with his daughter because she does not want to go to college after all the money they have spent. She is 24. She is too old to be convinced of what to do. But he said that we will not see each other again. Now, two days in a row.
First time in four months and a half.
I do not know if the daughter is trying to be an obstacle between us, or he does not want to see me, or I do not know what the heck is going on. All I can do is wait. If tomorrow he does it again, then I will yell at him so loud that he will repent of all his sins.
Yes, I do not feel comfortable with his behavior. Although his behavior has improved a lot, I feel very paranoid with him at moments. I did not feel this with anybody else.
My mother of course. But, he causes me a lot of stomach ache, and fear. He has never done anything bad to me, but he causes me fear.
I do not understand why. He is not omnipotent, he is just another human being. I am dehumanizing him. He is human. I am giving him powers that he does not have. He has to have feelings like mine. Why I do not feel him as another human? Why do I feel that he knows everybody and that he has plans to set me up in trouble or in the spot? Why do I have the feeling that he plans things to make me feel bad?
He does not have the time to plan things to make me feel bad. That is ridiculous. But I still feel that.
Maybe, he has a little of ambivalence unconsciously because of attention need because of issues from his past, but he has demonstrated that he loves me.
Maybe there is a little of mischievous in him and that little is magnify in my sick mind.
I never felt this bad with a man. And this man is better than what my husband was. My husband was abuser , terribly abusive, extremely abusive of me and my little baby too, abusive of his own blood and flesh, abusive of a defenseless little baby, and this man never abused his children. His wife cheated on him, she is still living with the lover that caused the divorce. Still, my ex husband was a monster and I did not feel that bad with him. This man is, the worst case scenario, a flirt, with need of attention because of a bad father and a narcissistic mother. Yet, he gives me the krips. Stomach contractions, as if something bad is going to happen. He does something that triggers my feelings. He does something that triggers my feelings. I still do not know what of all he odes triggers my feelings. Lack of assurance, lack of support. When I am upset he tells “stop it”! yelling. He does not understand feelings. He was mistreated. His mother did to him the same my mother did to me. His mother made his father bit him every day. My mother made my father mad at me and punish me and bit me too.
We are very happy when alone. When women around is when we start having problems. Much of them have diminished a great deal during this time.
Help me reach a wise and clear thinking. I do not want to make a decision right now. Just to think clearly so I can make a decision in the near future.
Love to you all.
Please, keep helping me.
For
-
For some reason, he makes me feel very bad, almost all the time. Why dont I have the courrage to be alone again? He makes me feel unworth it. why if he does nice tthings, why does he make me feel so bad? just his desire to dance with other women in public, in class, makes me feel bad, i felt pushed away these last two days, I feel that yesterday was unnecessary to push me away he did necausebecause he is a AH, because he wnated to make me fel bad.
-
Give him space ,Lupita. You will push him away if you become a noose around his neck. Ami
-
Hi Lupita,
It sounds as though you're struggling to figure out which are your dependent feelings (make me feel totally safe--a little bit like fusion, which no other human can or should do for you) and which might be sensible emotional precautions, if he's actually a Lothario.
And some of it's just...Latin males? I don't know, but I wonder if it's also a cultural thing?
You've described a lot of good, kind, caring behavior. That's good for getting old together, for sure.
It's tough to know. But have faith without panic that you will figure it out.
Sometimes two bruised people build something lovely together. Sometimes they pull each other under. That's what time is for (see "A Fine Romance" by Judith Sills, PhD). Read it again.
Could you ask yourself, MOST of the time do I feel safe and cared for?
I don't think his interactions with his ex-wife or daughter should be any cause for conflict. To me, that would seem like an unhealthy possessiveness. He has a right to connections with the people that are very important in his life, and it doesn't mean he's "in love" or doing something inappropriate with his ex. But if they share a child, he has a right to communicate with her at times, without shame or tension. It's better for all of you. And his child has a right to her father, just as your son does to you. Unless something really unusual's going on there, I'd really suggest not displaying anything but calm good wishes, about that side of his life. Let him see and talk with them when he needs to. You don't want to become a competitor there, but be a mature woman who just understands that with children and a past, there will be some presence in his life.
The dance and flirting stuff--I don't know. Would be a shame for it to sink you if it's harmless.
I am glad my life isn't built around dance! (Two left feet.)
love to you,
Hops
-
Hey, Hops, where did you get the idea that he was latin? I never said he was. He is american, white, gringo. LOL No pffense, just joking, but he certainly behaves like latin. Blue eyes, white skin.
He does not speak Spanish. Just my englsihs keeps us alive.
Why does he make me feel bad? Do I feel inferior? Does he make me feel inferior? What odes he do that make me feel inferior?
Last Friday, we went to class. When the teacher said switch partners, please, he desappear to take the prettiest girl, tall, russian, blonde, beautiful face, who by the wau happens to be a good person and nice to me. I felt sad, but I thought, it does not hurt to dance a little with somebody else.
My surprice, he did not changed to me when that section ended, he stayed with her. He thinks I am a piece of furniture that he uses after he is satisfied with others, then when she did not want to dance with him anymore, then he turned to me. I ignored him and went to the bathroom and stayed there for 15 min. When I came out of the bathroom I sat down and crossed my arms.
-
Then he finally remembered that I am his partner. He came to me and I was so pissed off that I could not pretend. I told him that I felt like a second hand object, that I knew that if Russian girl was interested in him he would not be with me. He said I was fu*&ed up in the head. I knew that he was wanting to be with that woman for a long time. I know, if she was interested on him, I do not know what would happen. I would like to feel secure.
Am I being ridiculous? His behavior would give me that peace. It does not.
Our last fight was for the check to check thing, after our big fight he promised that he was not going to do it. That day of the fight, he danced chick to chick with one of my friends. I saw the video of the class, and he was hiding from the camera, he knew he was doing something wrong. But the camera caught some of his behavior.
This friend said that she withdrew her face from him when she saw me and she told me that she felt very bad, and that she would never do it again. That day he broke up with me.
You know how we got back together. But that shows me that he is snicky. He does things at his convenience and I am starting to believe that he is an N because he gets mad and he punishes me when I do not guess what he wants.
Yesterday, Tuesday we were supposed to get together. He called me in the morning and asked me at what time I was coming over. I said I would prefer to get together t my house. Later he called me and told me he would not come because of his daughter. He lte me know so late that I cannot plan anything else. Same on Monday, he let me know so late that I could not do anything else.
He did not changed the clock the other day and I got late to church, he wants me to quit the church. I got late for my walk in my walking club. He did it in purpose. I think.
He makes me paranoid. Why do I feel paranoid with him? What does he do that triggers so many bad feelings in me? Why do I continue to be with him if I am so unhappy
-
Lupita
The HARD thing about our backgrounds(FOO) is that the old FEELS present and real so we do not know what is present and what is past.
The only way out is to talk in a real way with the person.
So, what you could do is say" *I* feel so insecure when it seems you want to be with the Russian more than me. I feel so afraid like when my mother used to degrade and humiliate me.
I had very little love and love is very precious to me.
Please be honest with me.
Do you WANT to be with her over me?"
Ami
-
well, Lupe.
It's certainly possible that another N found you my dear.
It's also possible that you're overreacting.
What does your gut tell you?
Really?
-
Lupe,
I have done what you are doing. I dont know about you, but I am a mess. I have been wounded by someone I gave my whole life too and, who knows, maybe the scar will always be there. But I struggle (its better now) with this kind of stuff. Every comment is momentous. Every perceived slight is the end of the world.
Here's what I have learned. I am much much better. First, no one can make me feel inferior. I know you've heard that before--many times. But you may be about to really learn it. In your heart of hearts.
I am in charge of my feelings of worth. I am not going to give that charge to someone else--even if they want it.
Second of all--it is impossible for me to read someone else's mind. No matter what they are doing, I cannot know their motivation. And I dont need to. They can have the purest motivation in the world, but if it is damaging to me (truly damaging) then I need to put distance between me and them. There is absolutely no point in trying to iron out their motivation, or guess it. It doesnt matter.
Third, you can never, ever change someone. If he secretly prefers the Russian girl, then you cant argue him into something different, or fold your arms across your chest, or scrutinize the video. If he prefers her, he prefers her. I dont know if you can tell that is true by what has happened so far--but if it's true, you cant do anything about it.
And, finally, sometimes the tension is because you two have simply moved too quickly in the relationship. Maybe staying at his house 4-5 times a week is too much. Maybe you need to give more buffer in your relationship, allow it to progress more slowly. Dont let the physical expression of commitment get ahead of the actual emotional commitment. It will mess with your head.
Bottom line, give yourself time and space to allow this relationship to blossom--if it iis going to.
Love you, Lupita, CB
-
::raising hand::
I agree with CB.
More time and more space.
4 or 5 nights at his house a night sounds like too much together time.
Just say'in.
Mo2
-
I get it, Lupe, he's a WANNABE Latin.
I agree with everyone, too fast, too close, too enmeshed.
Couples counseling?
I actually did that in a dating relationship once. It was helpful.
We wound up not staying together but the parting was so much more dignified and kind because we had done a few sessions together (about his controlling ironically).
I wish I had more answers foryou.
I know Judith Sills does.
love
Hops
-
CB---you have managed to get a lot of wisdom. Maybe , there is hope for me .It seems like what you did was to TRUST yourself. Am I right:to honor your feelings as if you were worth something. Ami
-
Every comment is momentous. Every perceived slight is the end of the world.
But you may be about to really learn it. In your heart of hearts. It is the sensation of powerlessness. Once I feel there is nothing I can do I get to the victim mode. So, vulnerable. Start running. I have lost the best opportunities of my life because or running. I am really running away of my mother, or better said the feelings that my mothers triggers in me even she is in another country thousands of miles away.
They can have the purest motivation in the world, but if it is damaging to me (truly damaging) then I need to put distance between me and them. There is absolutely no point in trying to iron out their motivation, or guess it. It doesnt matter. Yesterday we went dancing. Salsa, bachata and merengue. There is one guy that always comes to sit with us and tells me, all relationships end. You cannot rely on one person. It will end anyway. He tells me that all the time. I tell him, M was married for 30 years. He can have long time relationships. He laughs. I think he really desires that M brakes up with me. I told M what he does and he said “ so what” I said, he makes me feel bad, and M said “so what” I said, if I had a friend who makes you feel bad I would not want him or her to be around us. He changed the subject.
I also suggested that we get together with other couples instead with his old friends a bunch of single desperate women. He did not say anything. He keeps me away from his friends who are couples. I will do my effort to get together with other couples. M likes to be surrounded by single women. Last night we sat alone at our table. A man invited me to dance and I said I am waiting for M. When M came said that I should have danced with him. He said that it does not hurt in salsa. I guess he has accepted that in tango we are not sharing. Not in the formal dancing, just in the classes and no chick to chick. He has not done chick to chick since our last fight two weeks ago. But he wants me to dance so he can dance too with others.
Third, you can never, ever change someone. If he secretly prefers the Russian girl, then you cant argue him into something different, or fold your arms across your chest, or scrutinize the video. If he prefers her, he prefers her. I dont know if you can tell that is true by what has happened so far--but if it's true, you cant do anything about it.
And, finally, sometiHe behaved so wonderfully last night. I could not believe it. We are going dancing tonight too. In the name of God, let us see how he behaves.
This is our 5th month together. I am on spring brake now. We will spend a lot of time together.
I totally agree with that. But he allows it. I do not know if it is him or me or both. I think it is both of us. Because yesterday before we went dancing I made my temper tantrum, which was not really a temper tantrum, I was feeling bad in reality, not pretending, and he brought me a coffeemaker and I said I did not want it. He put it back in his car. And did not hold his hand on the way to the nightclub, and I did not hug him when he arrived. But he did not fight. As soon as we danced the first piece I melted in his arms. Dancing has a wonderful power on the soul and the mood and the brain. Gosh, I enjoy dancing with him. We finished the night all in love and wonderful moods. So, he also wants me, I am not imposing my presence to him, he is doing his part for us to be together. So, we both are f&*#ed up in the head.
It would be nice to have counseling. I do not think he would go.
CB you are amazing.
Thank you Hops MO2 Ami, for all your advises and opinions. I really need you.
mes the tension is because you two have simply moved too quickly in the relationship. Maybe staying at his house 4-5 times a week is too much. Maybe you need to give more buffer in your relationship, allow it to progress more slowly. Dont let the physical expression of commitment get ahead of the actual emotional commitment. It will mess with your head.
-
I think that the onlt way to have peace is not to worry about him. He enojoys playing with my mind and I give him the pleasure. I need not to worry and it has to show, that I donot worry.
That will keep him in place. If I only could control my thoguts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I need to control my thoguths.
Thank you friends. Please, keep talking to me. I come everyday looking forward for your words.
Love you all.
-
What a big heart you have. Full of passion and warmth. I have been following your relationship with this fellow and I am speechless at the emotional risks you are taking. Could ya just guard your big, loving heart a little?????
Maybe he is ok and you are working through where to draw the line and where to move forward. He does such lovely things for you and then behaves like he is distancing himself. Basically the healthy thing to do about this is to say WHO CARES!
Examining his every move is driving you to distraction. Where did your life go? I mean the one you need to have at all times with or without him. You sound like you have taken a very strong love drug and it is taking over.
This is easy for me to say because I am not in your shoes. But as someone who cares I agree with five nights a week being too much. Too much because you sound like you are losing yourself and giving this guy way too much power in influencing how you feel about yourself and the world.
Hugs to you Lupita,
Sea storm
-
Hmmm, Lupita,
I dont know if he enjoys playing with your mind. A whole lot of early romance is that suspense of does he? Doesnt he? Will she? Wont she? It makes you crazy, but also produces lots of great brain chemicals. :) It is very, very normal for relationships to ebb and flow--a period of closeness follows a period of space. If you can lean into the ebb and flow and not fight it, it can be very pleasant. Read A Fine Romance. It was life changing for me and for each of my kids who are dating.
While you are looking at whats going on in your relationship, look at the competition issue. I see a lot of competition in your posts: what his kids are doing vs. what your kids are doing--other women--whether he comes to your house or you go to his. Some people manage that kind of competition in a love relationship, I cant do it myself. Sometimes just examining that, and stepping out of that dance will make a big difference.
Oh, Ami, I dont know about the wisdom part. I think I just got old. :? I am finally to a place where I accept who I am, and I am a big mess in a lot of ways. Makes me softer around the edges in my romance. Wish I could have gotten here faster. I'll bet a lot of other people wish it too.
CB
-
Lupita: I have been out of commission for so long. I am sorry my own health has trumped being a very good friend, listener to those on this board. My apologies. I remember when you first met this man. I remember you being very happy, etc. What is with us girls. We fall for a man, or a job or whatever and after the honeymoon period is over we seem to see everything correctly.
You are a wonderful person. If this man does not treat you well or make you feel good about yourself......if there are red flags.........if he is flirting with other women in front of you..........tell him to hit the road!
Life is too short to put up with the bullshit.
-
Oh my goodness, Lupe.
You're asking this man to get rid of his female friends, his male friend, spend less time with his child and exile his ex-wife....... require he spend more time with you and other couples.
What troubles me most is...... you've made this man responsible for your feelings.
That's a lot of responsibility, Lupita.
Esp as nothing he's doing would appear to be "deal-breakers."
I don't like this man has so much control over you.
You appear a little petulent, stomping your foot and demanding, like a 2yo, though I know you must be more dignified, but you seem to always be making demands about who he sees, dances with, talks to and socializes with.
I can't tell if it's he needs someone to tell him what to do all the time, bc he's so innapropriate, or if you need to state your feelings and sit back and see what he does on his own.
It would be different if he were cheating or contemplating getting back with his ex, but stating a boundary like "I will know you don't want to see me again if you talk to your male friend again" does seem like an overreaction.
I want to say..... where there's smoke there's fire, but....... I'd hate for you to walk away from a guy who's basically a good patient kind person, waiting for you to get over your FOO issues.
((((Lupita)))) Maybe just dance for a while and pay attention to how you feel.
Journal instead of reacting and check yourself in a week or 2.
-
Thank you all. He has not flirted since two weeks ago. I would like to give him credit for what he is doing. We are not going anywhere tonight. Nor tomorrow. So, that buys me one more week of love. My spring break. Then the following week we have a big tango event, the event of the month. But we already had that this month and he was wonderful that night.
I asked him last night if he wanted to dance with anybody there, he said no. But there was nobody pretty there. Ir Russian girl is around, then he behaves different. But let us see how he behaves next time Russian girl is around. That is going to happen next week on Friday and the following week on Friday and Saturday.
I play service today in church and cannot go out early. I asked him to wait for me so we can go out together and he said we better do not go out at all. Tomorrow he said we are going to the movies. He wanted to go to a tango event two hours from here with a group of friends that I do not like and he accepted, he told the friends because of Easter church service.
So, he is doing some adjustments. I have to give him credit for that. Otherwise I would be dehumanizing him. He is a human being with a heart too. I cannot believe that I am not doing any impression in his heart. I am sure I have to make an impression in his heart.
I wish we can stay together. I really enjoy being with him. I get paranoid when I am not with him. When he is not with me is when I start analyzing everything he does. Then I start finding fault every where.
That si why CB is right that I ahve to stop analizing what he does, and when he is absent I have nmot to worry about him and enjoy. I wish i could control my thoughts.
-
Hi Lupe,
Do you have a therapist?
Out-of-control obsessive thoughts can be helped so much with counseling plus Rx.
You're really in a state of very strong anxiety.
Just wondering if you'd considered having the focus on YOU, healing YOUR fear--and figuring out what part of it may be rational, or not--rather than fixating on him all the time.
Intimacy is bringing up PTSD-ish stuff for you.
(And it's a shame your whole social life seems to be constructed around dance. It's going toxic for you, but it's been important to you also. Do you think you can ever make peace with that? Do people tango forever? Can you begin to balance that focus on dance with some completely different activities?)
Could you two do some art project together?
love,
Hops
-
Lupita,
I have done this kind of thinking too. It was very very hard. I said a bunch of stupid things when I was scared of getting too close...or of losing him. We worked it out, and the obsessive thoughts are gone at this point. I really dont know what it was about except, like Hops said, maybe PTSD. It would hit me at night, and by morning I was okay. If I could keep my mouth shut and work through it on my own, I was fine. Journalling is everything.
Give your relationship with him enough healthy space. Lots of time. Lots of fun. No plans until later. Enjoy the process of getting to know him. Just enjoy each other.
We children of N's are so scared....When you get absolutely terrified, try talking to yourself instead of him. "I'm afraid that the only reason he is happy dancing with me is because the Russian girl isnt here. She is so pretty. I dont feel good enough to compete with her. But I know that's my fear. There is no competition. He is here because he enjoys me. I enjoy him. I am going to enjoy every second of this evening and not let my fears ruin that." I had to do this a whole lot. Its much easier now.
Just remember that you arent the only one who is afraid. He has his own wounds and fear and he is going to do stupid things that are self protective. Those things are not designed to hurt you, but they will because self protective behavior is often painful to other people. The only way either of you are going to relx with each other is to feel safe, and the only way to feel safe is, among other things, allow lots of time to get to know each other.
Love CB
-
I agree with CB about the dance between intimacy and distance.
You HAVE to be able to deal with it when distance comes---even if you bite your nails and sit by the phone.
It is the ebb and flow of relationships like the tide.
WE---with N damage have terrible abandonment issues which make this very,very hard.
We feel the terror of our lives with the NM all over again.
Keep writing Lupita.
We, on here, are better than anyone to understand this stuff! Ami
PS I am gonna start a thread when I get the nerve about my new love. You guys will not believe it.