Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Logy on March 13, 2010, 07:18:28 PM
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Sometimes I have a hard time following the posts here. I see others who seem to get it and can share a dialogue. I appreciate the insights of those who are more educated than me. But sometimes I feel just lost. Does anyone else feel the same?
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Sweetie
ANYTHING that comes from your heart is worth as much as a million perfect words!!! X o X o Ami
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Yup! I do sometimes feel lost on some of the longer threads. If I can catch a thread near the start, it's much easier for me. Also, not all threads "click" with me. Sometimes I'll read something that I completely relate too, and other times not. But that's totally okay. We all have our own unique situations with our Ns, and not every thread is right for every person. For example, I don't have children, so usually don't contribute to the threads where people have concerns about their N parents interacting with their own children. I have nothing to offer, not having had the experiences myself. It has nothing to do with anyone's level of education. It's about who we are, where we've been, and what we relate to.
Just be yourself. As victims of Ns, we have been made to feel uncomfortable for most of our lives. The last thing I want (and I think others would agree) is for anyone to feel uncomfortable here. If you read something that you find confusing, just ask. I've been on this board for several years, and I've never felt more welcome anywhere than I do here. Good people on this board. :D
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ANYTHING that comes from your heart is worth as much as a million perfect words!!!
Okay. Ami said in one sentence what I struggled to get out in two paragraphs. Perfectly said!
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Logy, often I don't reply to everything posted here ... not because I don't care about the person posting, but because I am not getting what the person is trying to say. I respond when I understand what is written and when I feel I have something to contribute, and just don't respond when I don't get it. Please don't feel alone in this ... part of it may be all of our different experiences (many of which are very difficult to explain), and part of it may be that we come from all over the English-speaking world ... even within the U.S., people can easily misunderstand one another because of the different regional ways of expressing themselves. I just abide by what a preacher once told me, "Reading is like eating watermelon ... you swallow the good part and spit out the seeds!"
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Logy,
Often when I reply to something it is because it helps me to verbalize something the thread has brought up. Its personal but it may help someone else so I think its worth writing about. Some threads don't bring up anything for me. It doesn't mean they aren't valid they just aren't where I'm at. I think you may be feeling like that. It is not so much about understanding as it is resonance.
S
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Thank you to everyone. Everyone for your support. And your kind words. Reading everyone's posts brought me to tears. When I read something that I don't get and that I don't have an answer, a solution for that person, I feel like I am a failure. I'm supposed to fix everything, make everyone happy.
People being free to express themselves. And free to not be judged is still hard to wrap my arms around. Every time I respond to a thread, I wait to see who will tell me that I don't know what I am talking about. That everyone else is smarter than me.
So I just read back over my comments. I'm supposed to "fix everything" but then "everyone else is smarter than me". How is a stupid person supposed to make everyone else better? I wish I had some good words to summarize my feelings right now. But I think I might have just expressed myself. :lol:
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When I read something that I don't get and that I don't have an answer, a solution for that person, I feel like I am a failure. I'm supposed to fix everything, make everyone happy.
Wow - I can relate to both parts of that statement. I think that concept of feeling like you are supposed to fix everything is very common among family member of Narcissists. It is so painful and self-destructive. But the good news is that we can definitely overcome this.
I think of it as a boundary issue and remind myself to "give it back" to the person who it belongs to. It is not an instantaneous cure but I have made great progress in this area. I believe you can too.
People being free to express themselves. And free to not be judged is still hard to wrap my arms around. Every time I respond to a thread, I wait to see who will tell me that I don't know what I am talking about.
I expect some sort of negative post to most of my own posts. I don't get many but it is a constant fear. It is that inner critical voice so well trained by my Ns and I am working to recognize that that voice does not belong to me. Logy - you are in such good company here. Even if someone were to tell you something rude like that there would be so many more here who want to read what you have to say. You are valuable here.
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Hi Logy,
There are times when I read and think...Oh boy, what the hell are they talking about...then I read it, re-read it, look somethings up..think oh, ah, oh look at this..oh wow ..or at times still think...what they hell are they talking about BUT with all each and everyone on this board ....I see all...teachers. I have learned more things then I ever possibly thought I ever could have.
Sometimes I can struggle to follow for there are so many Wise, Wise, way ahead of me...Explorers...that I back to...the read, reread, um what...to oh wow!
Love
Deb
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Hey Logy, another thing to this might be when the person posting doesn't exactly know what they're getting at or have the right words to make an idea coherent to others. Some of my posts surely fall into that category! And sometimes I just have too many words to "get out of the way" first - before I finally get to what it is I'm trying to say.
S'OK...
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Dear Logy
Just take baby steps in sharing your heart--little by little. x o x o Ami
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"So I just read back over my comments. I'm supposed to "fix everything" but then "everyone else is smarter than me". How is a stupid person supposed to make everyone else better?"
Logy there are many people on this website at many different levels of growth and healing. There are also times when people disagree completely on an answer, allowing the questioner to see both sides. I think every answer is often the answer for someone, even if it doesn't "fix" anything. Sometimes it just reminds them of something that happened which comes up in another thread as a major topic.
I'm a college professor who relies on a strong logical mind to make a living and I always enjoy your posts and feel they are valuable. Some posts can involve long articles and those can be a challenging read, but when I respond to one like that I don't usually respond to the whole thing, just the "ah-ha" parts for me if there are any. When a post leaves me cold it is not because there is something wrong with it or me, its just not an issue for me. If it doesn't resonate with you, you don't need to feel like you missed something. Someone else just zinged on a part of it. Good for them!
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Logy
Education, long posts, big words and fancy ideas do not make a bullshit-free person. Many times they make the exact opposite.
King's new clothes.
Also I am quite nuts and happy with it in case you hadn't worked that one out! :)
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Logy,
Take what you need -- leave the rest -- I've found your posts to be particularly illuminating as parts of your story seem the same as mine. You've helped me so much!
Biddy
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I feel I may be one of the culprits here! My problem being that I think, and I think, and i think, first thing in the morning, and all thro the day. So much that I dont know where I put what I had in my hand a few seconds ago, or why I came into a room at all.
I've almost thought myself off the planet, or at least beyond contact with other humans. When I try to say something and people dont understand I feel embarrassed, like I must be way off, not to be able to use simple language. Like it has been said here, the best things are simply said and recognisable to many.
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Logy,
I definitely feel that way here at times. I think the theory behind NPD can become very intricate... and I am often don't need or want to think so deeply :) Sometimes I think I just want people to say, "I understand... me too."
Hang in there Logy!
Love,
Beth
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Hi Logy,
Sometimes I'm a ditz. Sometimes I'm not. Occasionally I can articulate thoughts and feelings well. The nice thing here is that people take me the way I am, tolerating my quirks and inadequacies :).
I think you can feel comfortable and at home here.
tt
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Hi Logy-
I think posting on a forum in general is an interesting experience anywhere. People post in a paragraph, and then other people post back etc.... It's hard to communicate and not be able to verify what people say, like in a conversation. So I often am thinking of several different things at once to avoid taking the wrong direction in some thread..... Or not appear non-validating which could cause hurt feelings. This can make a post appear wordy or deep.
I see a forum like a cocktail party (or tea party:), there are many different styles of communication and depths of thoughts, and interests/motives. Just like at a party, some people mingle with everyone, and some mingle with a few. Some people have a lot to say and some have a lot to say but don't like talking.... Or people who can say something very quick witted and concise.
All in all, just like in a classroom.... everyone gets a turn here without judgement about the way they post. It's all good here.... deep thinkers, concise thinkers, wordy or just one word.... whatever. There are no responsibilities here except to be respectful, pls correct me (respectfully:) if I'm wrong:)
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You know, Logy, this thread kept me up a little last night. It makes me sad that you refer to yourself as "simple," that you feel uneducated, and that you think you're a failure. You're none of those things. None of us are, but we've been made to feel like losers buy the Ns in our lives. We grew up believing that we're not good enough, inferior to others. You don't think that you're smart enough to post here, and that really breaks my heart.
So please, post often. Whether it makes sense or not, who cares? I think that the more you express yourself, the more you will realize that you're not the failure you've been made to believe you are. The more I post here, the more I feel validated about my N abuse. Every time someone says, "yeah, my NM did that too," it reinforces that I'm not alone, and that what happened to me was real. So try not to worry about writing the perfect post. Just write. I want to hear your experiences. I'm sure we all do. Please don't be so hard on yourself. Our N parents want us to feel that we're failures. They want us to beat ourselves up. Don't do it.
YOU ARE A GOOD PERSON!
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Just checking in river... I agree with JustKathy... & we are all equal here. Post, and post as often as you see fit for your journey:)
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Hi all!
Thanks so much! You have really helped me. I always feel like others are smarter, more important, better adjusted than me.
Sometimes I don't know how others take me. I did have a great experience today, though, that makes me think NM might be wrong. I went to the salon and had my hair done. The stylist has been doing my hair for about 14 years so she knows alot about me. She had another client in at the same time and while I waited for my color to process, my stylist was drying the other lady's hair. The other client happened to be an interior designer also. I was so shocked when the client started telling me how much she admired me and what I was doing. To hear this from a complete stranger and realize that the stylist must have been telling her about me started me thinking about me. To a stranger I must look like an accomplished person. To me I am a fake. Someone will surely find out that I do not deserve any praise, that my accomplishments are just dumb luck and I will plummet into despair any day now.
I need to ponder all this a little more.
Hugs. Logy
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((((Logy))))
We have a distorted self from the N damage.
I have a fractured self. I get SOOOO insecure. I hate it. Ami
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Logy,
I can sooo identify with my accomplishments being dumb luck and being an iimposter. I have a master's degree--it was "obviously not very challenging course work." I am a teacher-"They're going to find out how bad I am some day." (great evaluations from the principal) I don't know why I keep getting great evaluations when I am such a bad teacher--dumb luck I guess. I am constantly fighting the tapes. I'm so tired of fighting the tapes.
I always feel like others are smarter, more important, better adjusted than me.
I very much feel that way too. "All the teachers are much better than I am." "I have nothing to offer this site." All i have to offer you is that I too am having the same thoughts and feelings. It makes me so angry what they have done to us.
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(((((Logy)))))...
the client started telling me how much she admired me and what I was doing. To hear this from a complete stranger and realize that the stylist must have been telling her about me started me thinking about me. To a stranger I must look like an accomplished person.....
I need to ponder all this a little more.
You sure as heck DO, hon.
Ponder it. Ponder it.
It will take you to a good place!
love,
Hops
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Logy, I too understand this too well. It's very troubling to me lately I see myself as a person who hasn't accomplished "anything". If my husband says I'm beautiful or smart, I just don't believe him. I would like to graciously recieve compliments someday without feeling like I'm just agreeing with the person to have good manners.
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Thinking about everyone and their comments. I couldn't believe how much all of us feel so similar!
Portia, I am just learning to embrace my craziness! The more "crazy" I am, the more I feel like I am ME! You can probably guess who defined crazy for me!
River, no one is the culprit with regards to my comments. I think now that it was just my insecurities in trying to "fit in" to a new place for me. I'm supposed to say the right thing, have an answer to fix whatever issues anyone has, be the nurturing, calm voice of reason, and NEVER have any needs of my own. So when I couldn't be all that, I thought this was the wrong place for me. It's not anyone else, it's me.
So, what I'm taking from all this is that I know now that I AM at the right site for me! And I really do appreciate the things I don't understand. They help me to learn more about all the info that is out there. (Just might not be able to comment. And everyone has just told me that it's okay to not understand and comment!!! :lol:)
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"So I just read back over my comments. I'm supposed to "fix everything" but then "everyone else is smarter than me". How is a stupid person supposed to make everyone else better?"
I haven't finished reading the posts because I stopped after I read this one by Sealynx.
This just punched me in the stomach and I can't breath.
Bear
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Bear,
Hugs to you!!!
Logy
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If my husband says I'm beautiful or smart, I just don't believe him.
When my husband I first started dating, he told me one night that I looked really beautiful. My response - "stop teasing me."
That's what Ns do to us. We are simply not worthy. We're ugly, stupid, worthless. If someone compliments us, they MUST be kidding. I've been in therapy for about 15 years now, and I still have low self esteem. I've managed to shake some of it, but I don't think it ever completely goes away. Our N parents started telling us these things at birth. That's brainwashing. Pretty hard to undo.
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"So I just read back over my comments. I'm supposed to "fix everything" but then "everyone else is smarter than me". How is a stupid person supposed to make everyone else better?"
I haven't finished reading the posts because I stopped after I read this one by Sealynx.
This just punched me in the stomach and I can't breath.
Bear
Hey Bear... you've just had one of the double binds revealed to you. The damned if you; damned if you don't traps. These are literally breathtaking when you see them. I'll bet examples from your life are swirling around in your head. But you can breathe your way through it. Touch all your fingers together and cup your palms into a sphere, like you're holding a small fluffy kitten and do nothing but breathe deep and sl-o-o-w-w-w. Just "hold" what you see and feel in your hands until your brain has time to catch up and process all the various pieces.
A big "me too" from me, on the topic of feeling like a fraud; an imposter. Still causes me discomfort when I want to voice opinions that I'm passionate about. The intensity of my feelings about some things are still very much tied to the old abuse buttons, and then I want to rail & rant like a charactiture (sp?) hellfire & brimstone preacher.
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A big "me too" from me, on the topic of feeling like a fraud; an imposter. Still causes me discomfort when I want to voice opinions that I'm passionate about. The intensity of my feelings about some things are still very much tied to the old abuse buttons, and then I want to rail & rant like a charactiture (sp?) hellfire & brimstone preacher.
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Just don't do it at me---LOL. Ami
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"So I just read back over my comments. I'm supposed to "fix everything" but then "everyone else is smarter than me". How is a stupid person supposed to make everyone else better?"
I haven't finished reading the posts because I stopped after I read this one by Sealynx.
This just punched me in the stomach and I can't breath.
Bear
Hey Bear... you've just had one of the double binds revealed to you. The damned if you; damned if you don't traps. These are literally breathtaking when you see them. I'll bet examples from your life are swirling around in your head. But you can breathe your way through it. Touch all your fingers together and cup your palms into a sphere, like you're holding a small fluffy kitten and do nothing but breathe deep and sl-o-o-w-w-w. Just "hold" what you see and feel in your hands until your brain has time to catch up and process all the various pieces.
A big "me too" from me, on the topic of feeling like a fraud; an imposter. Still causes me discomfort when I want to voice opinions that I'm passionate about. The intensity of my feelings about some things are still very much tied to the old abuse buttons, and then I want to rail & rant like a charactiture (sp?) hellfire & brimstone preacher.
Phoenix: A big thanks goes out to you for sharing with me your same feelings. Amazing that our feelings about this are most likely "exact" albeit, we grew up in totally different areas, with different parents, with different siblings, at different ages, in different times, all DIFFERENT! BUT all the same we are in this hell we lived through. The "double bind" here is the monster that lives in my soul. If I didn't have this experience in my life, I wouldn't be on this board and I would be a successful Doctor. I mean that.
Bear.
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Phoenix, I'm so mad right now.
I am that fire and brimstone preacher.....yelling at my couch at the moment.
I'm arguing both sides right now of my NM and me. We are engaged in an argument and I've gone "there" and it's not pretty. My couch just sits there listening to us.
I'm really good at speaking in her voice (to me) and it's over.
NM wins. Again.
Bear
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Hi Bear- I live this too, damned if I do and damned if I don't it seems every day lately. I thought I was the only one feeling like an imposture. I am relieved on this board how real my feelings are, that I'm not making this all up.... As my m would try to make me think. The paralyzation of thought and what actually is overwhelming and I get speechless.
I live this regret over not becoming a successful doctor as well.....I have to dumb myself down at my job to hide my underachievement and actual intelligence. I'm much smarter than I ever thought....... and even though this should be a positive thing I just boil over believing what my mother convinced me.... That I'm stupid. I could go on and on about what that looked like but I won't.
You are not alone Bear, those moments you are battling the NM in your head are very common for me. I'm just now realizing these battles for me are not actually totally founded in reality. We are not bad, and the battle will end with us on top with the truth.... The N will not know this, but they do not define what is so in the real world.
Apologies if I was rambling on, hope this makes sense.
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Hi Bear- I live this too, damned if I do and damned if I don't it seems every day lately. I thought I was the only one feeling like an imposture. I am relieved on this board how real my feelings are, that I'm not making this all up.... As my m would try to make me think. The paralyzation of thought and what actually is overwhelming and I get speechless.
I live this regret over not becoming a successful doctor as well.....I have to dumb myself down at my job to hide my underachievement and actual intelligence. I'm much smarter than I ever thought....... and even though this should be a positive thing I just boil over believing what my mother convinced me.... That I'm stupid. I could go on and on about what that looked like but I won't.
You are not alone Bear, those moments you are battling the NM in your head are very common for me. I'm just now realizing these battles for me are not actually totally founded in reality. We are not bad, and the battle will end with us on top with the truth.... The N will not know this, but they do not define what is so in the real world.
Apologies if I was rambling on, hope this makes sense.
(((((((((((Swimmer)))))))))))) "I have to dumb myself down at my job to hide my underachievemnet and actual intelligence." Wow. I only went for jobs that required not a lot of actual thinking but a lot of "doing." I thought that the good jobs were for smart people and that college was for smart people only. I positioned myself for failure with no career because I was too dumb to "get it" like everyone else. "They" were better than me all the way around and I had no chance in hell. I had to bury my passion of biology because I was clinically depressed and had no idea...just thought I was stupid and couldn't do well in school. I cried everyday.
I could go on and on as well, Swimmer. You did not ramble. I like hearing your stories!!
Bear