Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Twoapenny on February 26, 2011, 06:20:12 AM
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Hi all :)
Realised this morning that I feel totally overwhelmed by responsibility. The house, car, garden, income, bills, my son - his health, education and play etc - as well as my own health/development - are completely my responsibility. No-one else is involved or bares any part of the responsibility. I can get favours from people - I've friends and my sister who will help out - but the buck ultimately stops with me every time. If I don't do it/organise it/pay for it, then it doesn't get done. Even down to socialising/going out/catching up with friends etc - if I don't do it it doesn't happen. Is this normal in everyone's life or is this another hang over from our 'unusual' upbringings?
xx
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Hon, what you've described sounds like plain ole' reality to me! The fact is, each of us is where "the buck" stops on the things you've listed... if we don't choose to do it, or do it, nope.... it's not going to happen.
To counter the feeling of overwhelm that comes with that understanding - remind yourself that it's been this way already for some time and you've done just fine; nothing awful, bad or catastrophic has happened. It might be that it's come up in such a way that you're more conscious of it now... because perhaps there's something you'd like change... or the little Penny is asking "can we have or do this?" to be more consistent with her preferences, too... a compromise of sorts. She could be making a suggestion and learning to hear those is a sign of "more progress". Be careful tho! Sometimes, you do have the be the parent guiding those suggestions to a better outcome... those inner children are still children, after all. (eating candy all day for instance...)
If, after going over all the ways you've fulfilled your responsibilities just fine... the feeling of overwhelm persists... perhaps you can ask little Penny what it is that she wants/needs in the current picture - what would she change? add? subtract? It might take her a little while to be able to answer - to know for sure - but she will answer.
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Tupp:
I think every parent, who cares, struggles with overwhelming fears and anxiety at some point.
((())) and I feel the same about having health insurance, renter's insurance, car insurance, are maintenance, car tag, driver's license, healthcare appts, braces, house cleaning, teaching kids how to be responsible, decent food and food plan in the house, excercise and healthy habits, healthy electronics, less electronics, no electronics, more library time, more activities, healthy neighbors, teachers, school chums and family around the kids and in order.
All.
The.
Time.
It is overwhelming, and if you aren't moving
all
the
time,
something's falling behind.
Lighter
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I am overwhelmed too.
I realize the hugest contrast between my life and my parents' is that they had absolute certainty in each other as partners and as companions. They had support and consulting for practically everything in their lives. (This is apart from Mom's N-issues...just that the good side of their lives was the tremdendous functionality of their partnership.)
Sometimes I can't tell which I yearn for more...then I realize, it's not just loneliness, it's the full-out exhaustion of managing my life, my mother's estate, my job, my future...completely alone. I can get input now and then from others, but there is no person who shares my life.
I wish I had been taught the value of this, and knew how to create it. Meanwhile, there are satisfactions in blundering on, making small goals, carving out increased self-respect from the effort.
I hear you. I'm trying pretty hard to judge myself more gently, for truly doing the best I can.
It needs to be good enough...and there's nobody but me to say that it is.
love,
Hops
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Yes TwoApenny
Each of us is responsible for his/her own life, when we set out on our own, just as our children will be responsible for their lives when they set out on their own. If I had lived life backwards I would have lived a wiser life.
We are responsible for ourselves and everything that will protect us, and for our children and everything that will protect them. We are not responsible for our parents, nor for our neighbours...said loosely...... as I believe in some place parents can sue for children to care for them.
We are not responsible for our adult children, unless they are in a very needful situation.
That's my little input for the day!
xx
Izzy
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Hi Phoenix,
Wow, eating candy all day sounds good! Lol :) I will retain my sensible head, though, and not over-do it :)
I've thought a lot about what you've written and I think the thing that keeps coming to me is that I don't have any fun - or not enough fun, anyway. By the time I've done the responsible stuff all the time, energy and money is gone. And when I do do fun stuff it seems to be over really quickly and the tedious stuff takes over really fast.
I think my energy levels are a real problem. I get tired so quickly these days. We were out yesterday and did have a nice time, but I was literally ready for bed by 5pm - way too early! So perhaps I need to work on that as a first stop, so that I've at least got more energy to do more fun stuff if I get the chance! I'll keep thinking all of this over. Thank you
Hi Lighter,
Yes, that's exactly how I feel! I was watching a series about tribes recently, different tribes in remote areas who live off the land, hunt and fish, whose way of life has remained largely unchanged for centuries, maybe even longer than that (although sadly the programme was about their way of life being threatened by logging companies and so on). I felt a kind of envy of their lifestyle. It's hard work, there's no doubt about that, and some of the stuff they eat didn't look great, I must admit! But there's a simplicity about their lives that really appealed to me, and a sort of companionship that's always there because they live as a group, look after each other's children and so on. Something about that really touched me. I guess it's about trying to pull out the elements you like and minimise the ones you don't. And I guess it's about change, as always, which is scary and unsettling even if it's for the better.
Thank you :)
Hops, yes, I get exactly what you're saying - it's that lack of someone sharing my life that I think I actually find so difficult. And like you, my family are 'close' to each other, albeit in a dysfunctional way that I couldn't cope with. I think something else I struggled with is finding that so many of my friends were unhealthy (in terms of how they related to me, or me to them, I guess), so I kind of cut them out too and found myself all alone. I still think that being alone, unhappy and 'real' is better than being part of something and hiding/blocking out any unhappiness that brings - but it's tough and knowing you're taking a sort of "I'll do this because it's good for me even though it doesn't feel like it" approach doesn't necessarily make it any easier. I hope your situation eases for you soon? It's hard to know what's good enough sometimes - sometimes I feel like I don't care about it at all and other times it feels like the be all and end all of life! Hugs for you ((((((((((((Hops)))))))))))))))))
Izzy, you are so right, starting at the end and working backwards would make life so much easier! I watched that film, Benjamin Button, where exactly that happens, and it was fascinating! I sometimes wonder if taking on other people's responsibilities is what's left me so tired now? I did used to feel responsible for my parents, even as a very young child, and as an adult took on their problems, other siblings, dodgy men, friends with drug/alcohol problems etc, and always felt very much that it was down to me to fix it. I don't feel that way so much any more, although I do still get twinges and have to really fight them off at times. I wonder if I want someone else to feel responsible for me sometimes? Too late for that now, but I wonder if it still niggles at me from time to time? Thank you xx
CB, yes, I wonder if I need to simplify things somehow? I seem to spend half of my life cooking, maybe that is one area I ought to focus on? Cleaning the house seems to be a never ending task and you're right, when you have a little one it's a largely pointless task! Perhaps I need to focus on simplyfying the day to day stuff and then the bigger stuff will start to shift on it's own?
Thank you. You've all given me lots to think about, and work on, as always! Thank you :)
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Tupp:
It's all I can do to stay awake past 9pm.
At 8pm we're in bed, reading, lol.
There really isn't any energy, or funds, for more.... you're right.
Do you think part of it is PTSD from having people, who should be protecting us, prey on and threaten us?
I think it puts one in a certain mindset of living under siege.
It takes a lot of energy just to be awake, under those circumstances, much less raise children and keep body and soul together.
Has your mother been neutralized, or is she still trying to harm you?
Lighter
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((((((((((((((((((((((TwoAPenny)))))))))))))))))))
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Part of the reason my social life is so slow getting put together is that it's difficult for me to function after 7:30 pm. or whenever the sunlight starts to fade... at sundown, even the cells in my body are programmed to start slowing down and relaxing and not attempting to do more than just slowly fall asleep. 10 pm is a late, late night for me.
It's not so much my age, either - it's that at the other end of the day - I seem to have a preference for waking while it's still dark and being mostly conscious to watch the sun come up. It's like my soul seems soothed by this ritual - yep, goody! here's the sun again! It's gonna be OK... The world is all fresh, it's a new day with new possibilities, and all the static and yuck from yesterday is now history...
This is a real logistical problem for me (and hubs is the same) since so many things are scheduled for evenings and it seems other people don't have the same bio-based programming.
As far as being over-responsible (and maybe trespassing a boundary to be same)... I've learned to ask myself first: is there anything concretely useful I can do? If so - then I ask the person involved if they want that kind of help. It's more of a brokered situation that way... and also provides an opportunity for me to say I can do "this much and only this much" so that I don't over-commit AGAIN. It's helped me sort out what's really mine to deal with, what's really important, and when to mind my own business!! I used to be one who barged right into every situation and took over... here's how you do this, kind of thing. And then I wondered why I was drained dry all the time, you know? I was compelled, almost... to do this... to prove my competency or something.
And it was connected (very much) to the hidden (even to me) desire of wanting someone to come and care for me... to wrap a cloak of protection, safety, comfort and understanding around me. Because I could be standing right in front of someone dripping wet and denying that I needed a towel... "I'm OK, really".... "Thanks but no I can't do that then".... Obviously in need to those around me, and insisting that I wasn't to the same people... DUH.
I've looked at that a lot in the past year - it's a funny-odd side effect of being a child with abusive parents. The way we refuse help, kindness, and acknowledging our own need... and I think - at least for me - it's because having those kinds of needs was very dangerous and I was quick to learn "be careful what you wish for"... many things my mom did "for my own good" or as her way of taking care of me - were extremely hurtful, disastrous to my psyche, and added additional confusion to what was already a lifelong mess of sorting.
So I now watch out for my automatic responses to people that are intended to keep them at a distance from myself... I have ways of sending messages to people to keep back... unconsciously... defeating what I really want. Because I'm so afraid - I've associated pain, boundary intrusions, etc with connection, caring, kindness - in some dark corner of my experience/brain... and the only way to undo that programming is to "prove" to myself via actual experience... that the two kinds of experience aren't connected that way with most relationships and people.
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Lighter, I do think the exhaustion is some sort of after effect. I was talking to my therapist a while ago about how I live my life in triplicate. Something as simple as eating breakfast becomes a big deal. My mum never ate breakfast - in fact she never ate much at all. So if I'm preparing myself something to eat I hear her comments - about the 'luxury' of having time to eat in the morning, comments about weight, being greedy, her making vomiting noises (which she used to do if you offered her something she didn't want - she'd mimic the sound of being sick instead of just saying no thanks) and so on. She never made us breakfast as kids, she'd give us a cup of tea and a couple of biscuits before we went out in the morning. So all of that goes through my head in a second. My instinct is to recoil from it all - I'm doing it wrong, I shouldn't be eating this, no wonder I put on weight, etc etc. And then the third voice comes in, being sensible - "Tup, you're 37 years old. Eating breakfast is healthy, it's a sensible thing to do, you are looking after yourself properly and setting a good example to your son". And so on. So everything I do has three layers to it - my mum's response, my learnt response and my new response. All day, every day. Along with the anxiety, the mood swings, the sadness, loneliness etc - it's making me tired just writing it all down! So yes, I do think day to day is more tiring for someone recovering from some sort of trauma, whatever that may be. I don't tend to go to bed early but I do tend to fall asleep on the sofa the minute I sit down! xx
Bonesie,
Thank you! And right back at ya! (((((((((((((((((((((Bones)))))))))))))))))))))))
Phoenix:
As far as being over-responsible (and maybe trespassing a boundary to be same)... I've learned to ask myself first: is there anything concretely useful I can do? If so - then I ask the person involved if they want that kind of help. It's more of a brokered situation that way... and also provides an opportunity for me to say I can do "this much and only this much" so that I don't over-commit AGAIN. It's helped me sort out what's really mine to deal with, what's really important, and when to mind my own business!! I used to be one who barged right into every situation and took over... here's how you do this, kind of thing. And then I wondered why I was drained dry all the time, you know? I was compelled, almost... to do this... to prove my competency or something.
And it was connected (very much) to the hidden (even to me) desire of wanting someone to come and care for me... to wrap a cloak of protection, safety, comfort and understanding around me. Because I could be standing right in front of someone dripping wet and denying that I needed a towel... "I'm OK, really".... "Thanks but no I can't do that then".... Obviously in need to those around me, and insisting that I wasn't to the same people... DUH.
I've looked at that a lot in the past year - it's a funny-odd side effect of being a child with abusive parents. The way we refuse help, kindness, and acknowledging our own need... and I think - at least for me - it's because having those kinds of needs was very dangerous and I was quick to learn "be careful what you wish for"... many things my mom did "for my own good" or as her way of taking care of me - were extremely hurtful, disastrous to my psyche, and added additional confusion to what was already a lifelong mess of sorting.
So I now watch out for my automatic responses to people that are intended to keep them at a distance from myself... I have ways of sending messages to people to keep back... unconsciously... defeating what I really want. Because I'm so afraid - I've associated pain, boundary intrusions, etc with connection, caring, kindness - in some dark corner of my experience/brain... and the only way to undo that programming is to "prove" to myself via actual experience... that the two kinds of experience aren't connected that way with most relationships and people.
You just summed up my life! This is exactly what I do, I push people away, I tell them I'm fine, I'm terrified of anyone getting close enough to find out that I'm not perfect, not good enough, not really me and I find I've really had to make myself stop from running in to sort out other people's problems. My mum expected it, other people find it irritating.
I think I'm doing better on the not rushing in bit, but being close to people, asking for help, admitting I can't do it (what???!!! Admitting I can't do it all by myself??!! No way!) I am still finding hard and really struggling with. But baby steps, I guess? Some progress is better than no progress!
Thank you xxx
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Lighter, I just realised I didn't answer your question about my mum!
I'm not aware of anything she is trying to do, harmful or otherwise. She still stops my friends in the street and asks them about 'her grandson' (who she has not wanted to see for four years). She and her husband drive past my house a lot, so I'm told, I rarely see them. Every now and then we come home to find a toy or DVD left on the front step which I assume has come from her although I don't know for sure.
I think, most importantly, my attitude to her has changed. She made false allegations against me for years. Despite having the upper hand - it was going on in secret, she was completely in control and she manipulated other people and created a false image of me in their heads and she made sure my son didn't get the help he needed for his disability, thereby creating more pressure on me as I had to do it all myself - despite all of that, her hate/malice/illness, whatever it was or whatever it should be called - was no match for THE LOVE I HAVE FOR MY BOY!!!!! I fought every accusation tooth and nail, for his sake - I don't want him reading records in years to come and reading all those lies about his mummy not loving him and not caring about him! I fought for him to get care, medical treatment, educational support etc and what I couldn't get via the state sector I paid for/and or provided myself. I have worked damn hard to make sure he never went without, however hard she tried to make life difficult for him. She didn't win, despite the fact she held all the cards and was pulling all the strings. I have completely worn myself out in the process and don't get me wrong, it has been hard! But my son is nine on Saturday and he is fit, strong, healthy, happy, confident and sociable - despite being autistic and having epilepsy. I had no health problems like that as a child, but despite that by nine I was a scared, lonely, miserable nervous wreck, only three years away from years of sexual abuse and only five years away from a decade of drug and alcohol abuse. So I've done it better than she did, even though she tried hard to make it difficult for me. As hard as it's been, it's made me stronger, more confident - I feel I could fight more accusations because I've done it before and won every time. She's also run out of agencies to report me to as well; she's done them all and not got anywhere.
I feel sorry for her now more than anything. She's old, lonely, pickled in alcohol, she's driven away five of the six children she had in her life and seven of her nine grandchildren. Her eldest grand-daughter is expecting her first baby, so my mum will have a great grand child she will probably never see unless she happens to bump into her in the supermarket. She's married to a man who was never faithful to her and who sexually abused her kids (and maybe still is doing that? who knows?) and her best friends in the world are two dogs that she can't control. She's obsessed with all things material and is constantly critical, judgemental and cranky. I wouldn't swop places with her even for a day. I feel blessed to have escaped, you know?
So I guess I've neutralised her? A therapist I saw years ago told me I gave my power away by being afraid of her. She went through a list with me - are you scared she'll kill you - no. Are you scared she'll attack you physically - No. And so on, down through all the possibilities until we were left with me being scared of her saying mean things about me and not liking me. Incredibly powerful weapons, that sort of ability to control people through their own heads is really scary. But she's tried and tried and she never broke me, so I guess I came out of it all on top :) Yay!!
Thank you for asking the question, it made me think about my mum in a different way; I can see that my feelings towards her, my perception of her has changed over the years :)
(((((((((((Lighter)))))))))))))))) xxx
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I'm so glad your mum seems to have run out of places to report you: /
Now, if you can just silence her awful voice in your head......
things will be better.
It bothers me to think she's still inside you, making you ill.
When you hear her voice, what do you do?
I want to swat her out of your head............... replace her with kind/gentle/patient words, that make sense.
I always say.... "It's Ok, it's OK" to myself............... Sometimes out loud.
I think you need a seriouse new set of mantras (to chase your mum away.)
Lighter
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Lighter, it bothers me that she is still in there! She's so ingrained in me, everything I do, everything I say, it drives me nuts! Even thinking about this responsibility topic, it's all about her. I feel I ought to clean the house top to bottom every day - because she does. The car should always be spotless - because hers is. I should get up early and go out and run errands - because that's what she does - etc, etc, etc.
One of the things I really like about therapy (at least with this particular T) is that she is literally re-training my brain. She's re-set me to normal and we're working really hard on moving away from mum's response to mine. But it does take constant work and of course, when you're tired or busy or doing lots at the same time it slips in without you noticing and then you have to work harder to get it out again! But we're getting there :)
I want to swat her out of my head too! She's there less these days. I think now it's more like the really deep seated messages that she's still holding on to, they're taking a bit longer to get rid of! xx
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LOL! I so totally get your description of 3 layers and how it's exhausting! It's hard enough being one person in one's own self... much less allow the inner child some space... AND the "old bat". Guess which one needs to be evicted?
I wonder what would happen (I can't remember if I've tried this) if we gave the mom-tapes the spotlight? Either in a journal, or sitting, or whatever... let the old bat in our heads carry on to her heart's content and spew out ALL of her vindictive invectives? And without getting stuck in the place of judging how accurate it is... looking for truth or anything like that - just let that voice have it's say until it can't say anymore.
And then, from our self-voices, examine what was said... examine our feelings about it and how accurate (or not) it might be... and even what those particular phrases mean or reveal about Nmom. It might be good compost for defining and growing a "new & improved" Tupps...
Maybe after being in a safe enough place to let her do her worst... and then realizing nothing bad has happened... maybe then the mom-tape will stop even trying. Maybe it'll quiet down to a whimper... and eventually, if you pay no more attention to it, because you've already dealt with each and every "nasty" she wants to throw at you... debated, considered, refuted... it will just fade away.
Now, I do find that it comes back... less, when I'm stressed than when I'm stretching myself outside my old prison-like "comfort zone"... when I'm opening up to new experiences I hear the echoes of the old litanies again. And when I start to pay attention to it... I have a magic word to use to make myself pull my attention away - that word is TWIT. Not sure if I mean myself or her... but it works - hahahahaha!
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Twit, lol.
Well, if it works, Amber.....
it works: )
Lighter
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magic words work better if they're a little fun!
hee-hee!
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Lol, Phoenix, I've had a whole host of words to describe my family at times, all of them a lot ruder than twit! I remember in the early days of therapy I used to see this lovely lady who was in her late sixties, very proper and very posh. She worked out of a little ante-room in this huge house she had with her husband and she had a very comfortable sofa adjacent to large french windows so as you sat and talked about all sorts of unpleasant things you had this lovely view across the lake, the gardens and out into the woods - very peaceful and tranquil.
We were talking about my mum's constant talking inside my head and this very proper therapist told me to tell her to f**k off, very loudly, every time she said anything. I remember gasping, I was so shocked, and then falling into hysterics at hearing this very well spoken lady telling me to f and blind at an imaginary voice. I still do it sometimes though, and it does work :)
I suppose it's like anything else; it all takes work and it all takes time to get used to. It's better than it used to be. I do think about her sometimes, her views of the world, her opinions on people, relationships and so on, and I see her for what she is - a mad old bat, although a very destructive one. I just find it frightening that I hung on her every word for thirty years and didn't do a thing that she wouldn't approve of. Now my sister and I have swopped roles; she is the GC and I am the black sheep. I enjoy my freedom now but I feel sad for my sister being stuck in that prison and her poor children who are being raised the same way we were. No doubt her poor little daughter is being made to feel like dirt on a daily basis :(
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That's great - the nice, sweet little old lady telling you to say that! I love that picture...
because it sums up - for me - how it would've been possible to avoid some of the worst of the hurt I went through, you know?
Of course, as little kids, our parents appeared to be all-powerful and our very physical survival hinged on being "OK" enough to the parent to be fed, clothed, etc.... but our psyche depended on them, also. How we developed as a "self"... and at least in my case, I made it my life's mission to always, always make sure I had permission to breathe... play... be something related to who I knew I was - but dare not show to Nmom. So I was always, always looking for approval and usually only getting attention at all when I made her angry or wasn't good enough or whatever. I felt I wasn't allowed to make mistakes... that there was something inherently very, very wrong with me... that I should've been one of those babies left on the mountain to freeze, starve and be eaten by vultures...
F off, indeed! :D Thanks for sharing that!
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I'm wondering whether because she got and grabbed the wisdom of a child yelling loudly in its own defense...that's why she so succeeded in her life?
Hops
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Hopsie, you might be right. I had to stop my sessions with her because she retired, but we kept in email contact afterwards and she told me about her life, which had been really hard for a long time. But because she worked really hard on herself (which is how she eventually got into doing counselling for other people) her fortune seemed to change - she said once she truly believed she deserved good things they started to come. Obviously she couldn't tell me all of that when I was her client but once she retired she had a really amazing story to tell and there were a lot of similarities between her early life and the way mine was at the time. It gave me hope that I'd end up with a really lovely life at some point.
Phoenix, yes, exactly! It's sad to say but I have been so much healthier since I cut my mum out of my life :( I just feel that there isn't room for both of us - it's her or me. Maybe that will change one day. As we're both getting older I feel like the positions are changing - she's not all powerful like she used to be and I'm doing pretty well in my own life - even on bad days I manage them okay, you know? There's still a lot there, obviously, but I feel more like I'm doing a long journey with a map and a compass now, rather than just heading off and hoping for the best :)