Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Twoapenny on March 29, 2011, 08:14:20 AM
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Hello everyone, I just thought I would share this with you :)
I saw my mum this morning. I felt nothing. Not in a numb, disassociated way, not in a "oh there she is, I'll ignore her" way, but just a kind of "there's a lady in a car" way. I didn't feel negatively affected. After she drove by and I'd realised it was her I just started laughing. I suddenly felt free. I don't feel bad things towards her. I don't feel like she's a big deal. She was just there, and it didn't feel like a problem. She didn't do anything. In the past she'd wave, shout, scream, swerve the car across the road or beep the horn. But she did nothing. Maybe she's finally realised what she does has no effect any more?
I've seen her and my step-dad a couple of times in the last couple of months and not had any adverse reactions. The sight of my step-dad used to be enough to leave me unable to breathe and vomitting. But lately it's not been an issue. So maybe, finally, I'm starting to be free of them?
I know things come and go in waves. I've had plenty of times in the past when I've felt 'cured' for a time, and then it's all crashed back down again. So maybe this is another one of those times. Maybe it's more permanent? Either way I am going to enjoy it for the time being.
Just thought I would share it, I hope it shows there is light at the end of the tunnel - albeit flickering at times! :) xx
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LOL!! That's VERY good progress Penny...
But, when "she'd wave, shout, scream, swerve the car across the road or beep the horn" - when she DOES do this, and you still are calm, cool & collected... then you really are forever free. I think you're almost there (and maybe are closer than either of us know!)
((((((((((((((((((((Penny))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
And a long Snoopy-Happy-Dance to you...
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That was a wonderful post to read, Tupp: )
Lighter
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Hi Penny. I think it's good progress and have had a few of those experiences myself in the past couple of years. It's like finally perceiving the parents as (crazy) "others" who really don't have the power to ruin my experience, if I don't let them. It feels strange at first, but also very freeing. Sure there can be setbacks, in a 2 steps forward one step back kind of way, but overall I believe it's very positive.
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((((((((((((((((((((((((((((TwoAPenny))))))))))))))))))))))
Happy Snoopy Dance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D
Bones
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Lol, Phoenix, I hadn't thought of that! Might go and hang around outside her house to see if I can provoke a reaction ;) Only kidding :) Thanks Lighter, Bones, Silver for your good wishes :)
Have also been practising boundaries! My sister came round yesterday - now I still struggle a bit with telling people it's not convenient or getting rid of them quickly - need to work on that - but I did chat with her without asking about or getting involved in any of her divorce/kids/financial problems. Felt a bit strange and I did literally bite my tongue at one point but was glad I managed it. Now just learn how to deal with unwanted interuptions during the day :)
Thanks all :) xx
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Tupp, that is wonderful.
So amazing to experience your own under-reactivity.
I wonder if that's what it's like to heal from ptsd.
xx
Hops
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Hops, I don't know, maybe? When your reactions/interactions are more 'normal' - by that I mean in proportion to what has just occured rather than being in proportion to some horrible trauma in the past - maybe that's the point at which the PTSD is kind of being laid to rest? I did think maybe I'd have a delayed reaction but still nothing. Next door's been yelling at her kids again - that hasn't triggered anything other than what I would suppose most people would feel - "dear Lord, those poor children, I wish that woman would learn how to talk to them". At times in the past I've had terrible emotional reactions to hearing her shout. Now it just seems not so much.
I also realised a few days ago that I'd visited a couple of friends last week - old friends that I hadn't seen for ages - and I wasn't doing that whole triple voice thing - you know when you're interacting with them but also hearing the old criticisms about how you sit, stand, talk, eat, drink your tea etc etc, as well as your new "I'm an adult. It's okay to sit on the sofa. I don't have to justify the way I speak" and so on, you know how tiring it is? I only realised a few days later that I'd just sat, chatted, had a bit of a laugh and then gone home again - like other people do! I didn't anyalyse the whole thing or worry about what they'd be saying about me after I left. And I didn't get the sort of sexual response to being around men that I usually do. I think the abuse left me a bit hard wired to see myself in terms of someone to have sex with rather than as a person? That whole area I think I still need to do quite a bit of work on, I'm seeing my T later so I'm going to chat to her about it. Usually with men I see myself only in terms of whether or not they would fancy me. So around friends husbands/boyfriends I constantly worry that they will think I'm after their blokes and that their husbands will think I fancy them. Around single men I think that if I speak to them they will think they can have sex with me and it really affects my behaviour around them - what I wear, how I present myself, how I feel and so on, because I don't want anyone to think they can touch me. But I wasn't doing all that, I just chatted and when it was time to go I didn't feel obliged to kiss them/hug them or anything like that. I feel comfortable with one, uncomfortable with the other. So I hugged the comfortable one and didn't hug the uncomfortable one! Which felt okay. But I think that's my next big thing to work on.
Sorry I have wandered off the point a bit! Hope things are okay in HopsieWorld :) xx
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Hey, Penny....
I hope you share some more about how you feel and react around men. I have issues here, as well.
I've always felt more comfortable in groups of men, versus women. But at the same time, I go way overboard to compete and "prove" myself capable of competing with them... to the point sometimes, where I'll unconsciously shred egos with very sharp claws. It's a remnant of how my mom objectivized all men... lumped them into a group... stereotyped... and didn't accept that they were individual people with feelings too. And there's an aspect of power-struggle, too. It's kinda hilarious, now that I have white hair and my extra 20 "grandma" pounds... but it's also kinda pathetic. Jeez, ya know? I shouldn't have prove anything to anyone any more.
When I was younger, I had the same idea that you described about men, sexually speaking. I could become extremely uncomfortable in situations, at the drop of a hat because of it. I didn't have any useful skills for dealing with it. At some point, I realized that this was all coming up in me... something in me was responding this way - it wasn't being imposed from outside. So, OK I could own that. I do like men and I am a sexual being. I recently had one of these "frozen moments in time" when I realized what I was feeling - and it was so electric, scary and inappropriate - that it scared me to death! And then... thankfully.... sanity returned and I realized I was "translating" or interpreting a deep emotional response into something physical again. I don't think I scared him, as much as I scared myself... but there have been times when that has happened! LOL....
a big shift happened somewhere along the way, when I realized it was me thinking about, obsessing on the sex angle... and other people weren't necessarily paying attention to that wavelength. (Kind of a relief...) And the bigger shift was when I realized I was mixing up emotional - physical responses... getting them confused.
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Phoenix, yes, I hear you! Our house was very odd when I was young. My mum and dad - real dad - had separate bedrooms from when I was about five or six. I never saw them even sitting on the sofa together, let alone touching or kissing. My dad was very old fashioned - I never saw him in anything other than trousers and a shirt. The only flesh he ever showed were his hands and face. I never saw or heard him use the bathroom, or saw him in pyjamas or a dressing grown. In fact, that isn't strictly true, the one time I saw him in his dressing gown was when he was in the hospital dying - and even then he wouldn't let us go in until he'd got up and put his dressing gown and slippers on over his pyjamas.
My mum's relationship with my step-dad was entirely sexual. They had very loud, very frequent sex when they first got together, for about the first six months. My step-dad constantly walked around in the nude, with an erection. He made frequent comments about sex and women in general. He used to take us to the video shop and hire porn whilst we browsed the children's section and he brought porn magazines into the house. He used to buy my mum sexy underwear which she then used to give to me - weird. They had books about sex on the bookcase in the hall and it was just in your face the whole time - both literally and metaphorically! My sister told me once that they'd had sex on the floor in the front room while she was sleeping on the sofa - the noise woke her up. She'd have been about ten at the time, maybe even younger.
So I guess they were like male versions of the virgin/whore stereoptype? My dad was completely sexless almost - there was nothing about him that was anything other than 'dad' like. My step dad was like a rutting elephant - his whole world revolved around it and because of that, ours did too. I found it impossible to say no to a man who wanted sex, regardless of whether or not I wanted to. Until I was in my late twenties I had never had sex sober. After I got pregnant with my son I stopped drinking - and then found sex was a real problem, and so attempted it less and less. I've never had what I'd call healthy sex - two people, on an equal footing, playing an equal part in something that is loving and pleasurable. I've never felt comfortable around men. I'm always anticipating them making a move, which of course will be my fault. If/when they don't, it's because I'm too fat, too ugly, too lazy, too boring, too demanding, etc etc. There's something wrong with me because I'm not being what they want and that's why they don't want me. So I always have this act thing going on - trying to be friendly without being too friendly, responding to what they do without thinking about how it makes me feel, completely unable to just see a man as a man - just chat, share some time, without it meaning 'something' or it being some sort of a big deal. I think that's what I want to work on next - getting past all that c**p, seeing men, as you say, as individuals - good points, bad points but real and in the here and now. Does any of that make sense?? Lol!
Had a good session with my T today. She's great.
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Yes, it does make sense Penny.
In a way, I think this is a form of boundary violation for children. I don't know that there's any good criteria of what's appropriate at different ages either. It might even vary from child to child. I'm not a prude by any means... and I do realize that even very young children are at least sensual creatures, if not quite sexual... but I think the amount of exposure you're talking about could be overwhelming to a child, who is in need of clear examples of how people behave... control themselves (or not)... fulfill their roles, etc.
It certainly doesn't do much to teach a child about public and private boundaries, does it?
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Hi Phoenix,
I wonder if it's also to do with where you come in the hierarchy, as a child? I mean in terms of what's important? In our home a lot of other things took precedence over us - sex, alcohol, housework, money, the dogs, what both adults wanted/had etc. We didn't really feature; our views weren't welcomed or considered, any attempt to gain attention was deemd to be selfish. When I look back I feel like I was gagged my whole life. There was just no room to speak, ever, at any time.
I think you're right when you say it varies from child to child - maybe that's why it's so difficult when adults don't recognise their children as individuals? I guess there's a line between affection and sexual activity? Maybe it's what goes on behind it that matters - if it's loving, caring, attentive perhaps that doesn't have such an adverse effect as something that is much more basic and almost animalistic in it's nature? With my step-dad it felt like it was very much about control - almost like he was marking his territory - this is my house (which of course it wasn't, it was my mums), I'll do what I like, when I like and f you. My mum had been on her own for two years and had run the house, decorated, done DIY, managed the money, etc etc. He moved in and suddenly she was nothing more than this sort of concubine and she just sat simpering and let that happen. So maybe it's what's behind it? Maybe you can sense that need to control in people - which is scary - and that acceptance of control - which is equally scary - and maybe that's the real problem, rather than the actual activity itself?
It's a lot to think about! Interestingly I went out with a friend yesterday and met her new chap. Felt very uncomfortable all day, even though he was a very nice chap and did nothing at all to make me feel that way. He was quite big build - I think perhaps I find that intimidating? I always have a terror that if I am nice to a man his partner will think I'm after him? Apart from both my mum and step-dad having affairs - maybe it springs from that - I also remember a time when I was pregnant with my son and my cousin's husband stepped forward to say hello and kiss me on the cheek. My mum shrieked "Don't get too close to her, P, she's looking for a father for that baby". It was mortifying - for him as well as me, and the other people standing in the group who all suddenly downed their drinks and went off to the bar to get more. I don't blame them! I'd have done the same if I could. Maybe that's got something to do with it as well.
I hope things are going okay with you at the minute xxxxx
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Hi Penny... I'm OK, doing all right.
Well, a few days ago I wouldn't have said so, being in the midst of a serious reality-challenging panic attack... but I survived this one too and things are much calmer, saner, and not nearly as dire as they seemed on Friday! Know what I mean? :D :LOL:
You ought to read, what I just posted for Gaining Strength today on the "childhood wounding and healing" thread. Some of your observations kinda tie in to the same thing we're talking about over there... especially what you were saying about where children ranked in importance in your FOO household. At least the processes in my allegory are applicable... the actual subject matter for you is different... just swap out control for sex... oh WAIT... I forgot that for some people... control and sex are the same very thing. Yeah - go read that...
And maybe my little allegory of "mirrors" over there, will help you get to an explanation about the tie in between your level of comfort now with men and the things you've experienced at the hands of your mum and stepdad. It's pretty normal to have some doubt about whether you're now "programmed" to be like them... having grown up in that environment. Ain't necessarily SO... really, it isn't! Looks like, in reality... you might've gone a bit far to the other extreme... to protect yourself from even the implication or appearance, that you're anything like that. Your father wasn't like that - and that's very important to you - the why and the difference, that is... what he offered you, versus the new family reality later on. Sex doesn't have to involve love, respect... caring. Sometimes, love - respect - caring are shown via sex. It can be very confusing "in the moment" to know exactly what's going on. Especially for people who've gone through abusive situations involving sex.
You posted a great example of this:
It's so nice of your mum, to project her own view of HER self-interest and fairness... via the comment about looking for a father... onto you. I hope she wasn't trying to be funny - because it's pretty obvious that everyone there felt uncomfortable about how she exposed herself - through this remark. It's just as much lobbing a turd into the party, as it would be, if she stripped down naked right then and there... and of course, she "assigned" this motivation to you, instead of herself... because it's what she would do in your position. I'd have been mortified too and have really, really wanted to slap her... though I probably would've fled the scene, instead.
[... and of course - the fact that the actual circumstances were merely socially polite and acceptable behavior, between you and P, other than something "about her", reflecting on her ... and that you in fact ARE different than she is, and have different values and motivations, ... simply doesn't exist in her reality. There's a whole lot going on in this one little story... you might be able to work with it and gain some major puzzle pieces of your "whole picture" from it.]
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Tupp,
Your stepfather was being sexually predatory and exploitative whether he laid a finger on your or not, imo.
On some level he was getting off on parading naked (and erect) in front of two little girls. I find that ... evil.
Your mother's indifference to how the whole rutting-porn atmosphere would affect her kids...she was UNFIT.
Imo.
Your newly won indifference and under-reactivity to them now is the beauty and power of healing -- you inspire me to think that if one just keeps with it, one DOES get stronger.
So impressed and pleased for you.
xo
Hops
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Hops, I agree with you entirely. I read a book years ago called 'Toxic Parents'. I kept it hidden at home and read it in secret because I felt so wrong daring to suggest there was something wrong with my family. But it was really helpful and one example stuck in my head. A therapist is discussing her client's relationship with her family and things that happened when she was young. The client kept defending her parents and making excuses/allowances for them (with regard to the things they had done to her). The therapist asked the client if she would do those things to her own child. The lady immediately replied "No way!" The therapist asked her why it was okay for her parents to do it then, if she wouldn't. And of course the poor lady got really uncomfortable, it was her lightbulb moment where she really had to see her parents in a 'real' way and start accepting that what they did to her was wrong.
I'm going around the houses here, but my point is, that is the rule of thumb I go by now. If I would do the same to my son then it was okay, but so much of what they did I wouldn't tolerate for a minute around my boy. And the idea of some man moving in without a bye or leave, parading around with his willy out, taking my son with him while he goes to choose porn? My God, I'd rip him apart. I wouldn't tolerate that in my house for five minutes, not a hint of it. So I agree with you - neither of them were fit parents. As for my indifference towards them - well it's waning a little at the minute because I'm writing a lot in my journal about what he did to me and it's making me really angry. So I'm not as indifferent to it yet as I thought I was! But it still feels like progress. A year ago writing about him would make me vomit and disassociate. I was just so scared. But now I feel angry and I think that's a better emotion, in some ways, it gives you an energy whereas I think fear can block your energy or take it away? It's not a scary anger where I feel out of control, more a slow, steady one where I feel like I can get it out of my system and move past it. We'll see what happens, though! Thank you ((((((((((((((((((((Hopsie))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Phoenix, yes, I completely see what you're saying. My mum's view has always been that any man is better than no man. I didn't want just any man, though, I wanted (want) a good man who will treat me well and respect and care for my son - not someone who wants to control me. I think she mixes control up with love? She always used to say to me that her husband was jealous of us (children) being around her because he loved her so much he couldn't bear to share her. She saw that as a good thing????????? And you are right, the whole situation was completely inappropriate, this man is my cousin's husband, we were at their son's Christening (or first birthday, I forget which now), the other people in the group were friends of theirs who I knew from meeting at other famiy gatherings, so apart from the fact I was only twelve weeks pregnant and therefore not showing (so no-one but my cousin and immediate family knew), I wasn't looking for someone (at that point the baby's dad hadn't told me he wouldn't be around so as far as I was aware it was all going to be okay with him) and, as you say, P was just being polite and saying hi, as anyone else would have done. I think she projects a lot of her own nonsense onto other people. She's batty! I will read the posts on the other thread you mention, thank you. Hope you have a calmer week than you did last week and that things are levelling out a bit. (((((((((Phoenix))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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Tupp, thank you for this:
I was just so scared. But now I feel angry and I think that's a better emotion, in some ways, it gives you an energy whereas I think fear can block your energy or take it away? It's not a scary anger where I feel out of control, more a slow, steady one where I feel like I can get it out of my system and move past it.
It's on a totally different subject but I've been feeling a lot of fear. Under that, I'm really angry, but at myself. I hope there's a way to have anger at self create energy.
love,
Hops
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Thanks very much for your concern about how I'm doing, Penny! It feels good to know I rate that high with you. You're doing some really serious, heavy lifting in your own work, yet you spared a thought for me. Thanks again!
And also, thanks for the anger comment. It's a timely reminder for me in my own situation. I learned early on, that "anger is my friend"... mostly because this kind of anger is usually the response to boundary violations or intrusions. I really didn't have any boundaries when I was at the point in the work, where you are... but I was trying to learn as quickly as I could where mine were. I went a little overboard - overcompensated in the other direction - and found out that wasn't the "just right" I was looking for either. It was pretty lonely there. I think different people have different needs for space within those boundaries... and when someone assumes that everyone's boundaries should be where their's are... well, we have discomfort or conflict.
Hopsy - I won't pry, but I gotta tell ya that right after guilt, I find anger at myself to be on the top 10 list of most useless emotions going. At least, right now, that is!
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Ya, me too, PR.
I am generally as mild-mannered as Caspar the Milquetoast, I mean Friendly Ghost.
(He was the only cartoon character I loved as a kid, as he was the only one I remember as being gentle and friendly...I was/am such a wuss. I couldn't enjoy things like the Roadrunner or Bugs, since they were always hurting each other.)
Really, when I look back, I was one overwhelmingly sensitive kid. I didn't try to be that way, it was just how I was made. I don't know how I survived. Well, I do...books. I read fiction with near desperation. Novels were the one thing that would take me away from the bullying at school, and at home with my brother.
Books were my friends. Who ever got angry at a book? And, the anger I saw in books was something I was amazed by, but never hurt by.
I am feeling an undercurrent of anger at myself recently because my own soft-headedness meant that for all the lyrical stuff, poetry, compassionate things I could create or contribute to...I didn't learn some of the common sense practicality I needed to learn. And I'm learning, late, and determined. But scared.
I am trying, so hard. Just weary.
xo
Hops
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I understand weary, Hops.... especially this kind. It's what I was telling GS - it's not our fault (maybe it's no one's fault) - that we didn't learn or get what we needed as children.
And you're doing pretty good, I think... in putting one foot in front of the other despite being scared. I can relate to that, too. Fortunately for you - you're pretty much past having to deal with your Bro; I'm on the edge of seeing just how far one can push an N toward the "middle ground" of compromise on some financial business. As you know, this "confronting the lion in it's den" action tends to add a mask layer over the rest of life... like a fuzzy filter that dims and dampens all the OTHER things in reality that could balance the task at hand and provide some relief/comfort.... with only the center of the picture, in terrible, stomach-wrenching focus.
Well, I need all those things in the rest of life that get fuzzed out - the flowers, the sun, driving with the top down - in order to even get my brain working properly, to be able to feel centered in myself and not always running for cover/hiding/reacting out of anger.... or even turning that anger unfairly at myself. I am completely, to-the-bone-weary of always being the one who "gives way" in any dispute with my Bro... and I've let it go hoping that he would come to his senses, in time. He hasn't and now I have no choice except to say: this is what I need, I need it now, and you can't tell me what to do with my share of the 50-50 resources at hand. To your NO - here is my YES, and here are the facts - whether you understand them or not; whether you understand the reality of them and the consequences of your NO. Because you don't have the final say... you don't have real control... so here are your options for a compromise and they will benefit you, as well.
Makes my legs go all jello-y. Makes me hyperventilate. Keeps me talking to Twiggy laying awake at night... running the same old crap through my head one more time, hoping I find something I missed before. NOPE - I got it the first time... so what this is, is precisely my inner child's fear of breaking that taboo of looking out for me, enforcing a boundary about "control" with my bro, and caregiving my self - instead of caretaking him to protect the world from his inner monster. My poor child quivers at the thought of this, loses her connection to the physical reality all around her, can't think in a linear fashion - except to run the same old tapes over & over again... which will progressively put her - and me - in an overwrought state of anxiety and stress. I don't function there.
I ain't goin' there again. Life happens - and even when it involves Ns - it's absolutely the most important thing to remember that their idea of their own power and control.... IS AN ILLUSION. Follow that up, with a heavy daily dose of detoxifying mantras: that even if they think it is "all about them".... in reality - it's only my allowing it to be all about them (the fear of speaking up and the outrage at their illness and the anger at myself for not being superwoman & perfect & heading him off at the pass) that keeps returning me the same exact results of trying to deal with them. They live in a delusion world that doesn't have any other people in it that matter... like I described about fuzzy filters, their focus is only on them. I don't live there now and I won't go back there again...
but I will, if I don't draw a line in the sand... say "time's up" - decide now... and be absolutely ready to back up my request with facts, figures, blessings from others... and an introduction to the reality of what 50-50 ownership means in regards to control.... and it's NOT what he thinks it is!! He sees this only in terms of 1 winner/1 loser... he doesn't have any experience of what win-win is... nor the functional fundamentals of compromise. His "fairness" only benefits him.
Twiggy needs to hear me loud and clear - that this is the best way to protect her and that in reality, there is no place safe from the misery and pain of giving away control of what is mine.... UNLESS, one stands up for oneself in a reasonable, fair manner. And I know she can do it; I know what she's made of - steel - but my bro doesn't know this or has forgotten. And yes, Hops - I have been seen as "overly sensitive" as a child too and retreated to the safe distance of books between me and emotions. But I truly believe that claiming those emotions as me... and then identifying what my self-interest is, based on that emotional intelligence (we do think with feelings... I want/don't want)... and developing and carrying out a strategy to protect that self interest would prove a point about overly sensitive not being the same as "weak", "no boundaries", malleable, a doormat... a puppet of someone's else wants projected on me.
Au contraire... real strength comes from being able to be that sensitive and to balance that with common sense, fairness, and the "common good". Amber's "middle path"... I guess you could call it. (Why do I all of sudden feel like a Hobbit?)
Anyhoo... hang in there!! It will be OK - because you care about the right things. We've interrupted Penny's train of thought... apologies Penny!! (Sometimes I just get carried away... and this has been bubbling up like witch's brew for some days now.)
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Thanks, PR.
I'm glad you're engaged by asserting yourself with your brother and hope it's not taking too much out of you.
Will update more on me on the other thread...
xo
Hops
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Hey Phoenix, don't apologise, what you described there is exactly what I have been through with my family.
I've been talking to my T about this kind of thing - this was when she first explained to me how your child is the one responding to a situation with absolute fear and panic, even though the reality is you are safe and, as an adult, you can deal with what is going on. It's your child that is terrified and snaps into survival mode and that's stronger than your adult response to someone who is yelling at you down the phone - you can just hang up. It's taken me ages to get my head around that and I still struggle with it a bit but I think it's the same kind of thing that you are talking about? I don't think I could have any kind of contact with my family because I would just find it too difficult to have to keep dealing with them and my own very frightened reactions. I've found it so much easier to cut them out completely. Trouble was I cut everyone out and have been quite reclusive over the last couple of years. That's changing though, I'm starting to interact with the world a little bit more and to have faith that not everyone is out to get me and that, if they are, the adult in me can deal with that (thank Lord for the therapist!). And yes, I do rate you highly, you (and many others on the board) have helped me so much!
Hopsie, you describe a childhood just like mine and it's funny that Phoenix had the same. I did nothing but read, I read endlessly, constantly, anything I could get my hands on. I remember so vividly reading Enid Blyton books as a very young child, sitting on my bed wishing I had friends like that and could go off to solve mysteries and have wild adventures. I think reading is a magical escape, and such a source of knowledge and inspiration as well. And I just wanted to echo what Phoenix said; no-one taught you good skills for life. I think people who've been brought up in abusive households have to put so much effort into getting through the day that it leaves little time for learning other skills - even if there were someone there to teach them to you. My mother's lessons about money were spend, spend, spend. Image is all important, nothing else matters. Through an enforced low income in my thirties, I've learnt how to budget and be thrifty. I've learnt how to make good meals cheaply, how to stretch a few pounds out into something meaningful, how to save for things, how few of the material things we are all encouraged to buy and unnecessary and, through all of you on here, not to buy cheap stuff in charity shops just because it's cheap! I can enjoy chatting with my son or reading with him, or just watching a film with him - my mum couldn't enjoy anything unless she was drunk. So I don't think you should be angry at yourself - you learnt how to survive and that is really what it's all about. And everything you have learnt you've taught yourself, which is something you should be really proud of. I'm just thinking through posts you've made on here - off the top of my head I can think of you talking about how you've managed the situation with your daughter, how you got through a horrible time with your brother, you dealt with your mum's care for a long, long time and handled your own feelings about the situation as well. You mentioned a book about money to me and it was you, if I remember rightly, who urged me to clear out all my junk and stop hording. You've got a difficult boss that you manage at work, you dabbled with a bit of dating, you've got health problems of your own that you are managing and the yard sale situation which you bravely said you would deal with, somehow. You sound to me like a wise woman, Hops! And you've done all of that on your own, which I think is pretty incredible. Pat on the back time, I think ;) xxx
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Thank you, Tupp. You've made me cry.
(In a good way).
xxoo
Hops
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... how your child is the one responding to a situation with absolute fear and panic, even though the reality is you are safe and, as an adult, you can deal with what is going on.
Hi Penny - what you wrote so simply and clearly sums up the predicament I've been working on, within myself. I was totally mystified by the fact that I was so competent, calm and efficient in my working life and personality (except for my Nboss)... yet dealing with personal relationships - particularly my family - that was such a friggin' mess.
For me, the way to healing some of that, was to mother myself - that inner chld - on my own. And then, to open up the gate in my solid steel, barbed-wire topped boundaries, and allow others to also help calm & comfort that poor traumatized child. I experienced both kinds of trauma - the short, intense, physical life or death kind - and the slow, drip-drip-drip, gradual realization of how I was used, abused and didn't matter - that in the hierarchy of the FOO I'd been abandoned as a member of value. Usefulness - yes; value - no.
Over time, I began to intuitively sense that my adult self and the child were merging; my T suggested that the child self was growing up... sort of the same thing. I also experienced a few moments of awareness where I could hear my child speaking, instead of my usual self... the voice is actually different - go figure. Those are spooky moments and certain kinds of stress can bring them out.... usually breaking taboos about feeling happy, expressing that or standing up for myself. I still sometimes have to take a "time out" from whatever is going on and have a little chat with that child - either she's really angry; really hurt; or really scared... and she's about to have one the tantrums or meltdowns that I'm famous for... but that are now more rare.
With my bro - it's almost like my child disagrees with me about how I'm dealing with him. Her way isn't feasible and it's very angry and full of old resentments about being forced to mother him, care for him... because my mother couldn't... and he was the golden child... and still, at 52, not a grown up person. Oh yes - he also has these old resentments and unfair judgements about me, too and I have to occasionally remind him forcefully - that I am not that person anymore. He hasn't changed behaviors, but I have. It's clear my way of dealing with him, isn't satisfying my child's need for fairness and justice either. So, the search is on for "something different" in the way of compromise between myself and my SELF... before I even attempt to propose or work on anything else with my bro. Hence, my babbling about self-interest and fairness, ya know?
I would LOVE to have an option where I didn't have to deal with him, but we've both inherited 50% of a business - neither has an advantage nor control - and the structure of this, is one of the last acts of the one of the main actors in my inner child's trauma. I've chosen to see this - as much as I possible can - as an opportunity to change the status quo of the old FOO roles and assert myself - in a fair and just manner. It's as if I'm being asked to prove myself capable of rising above reacting to the passive-aggressive, subtly insane and paranoid abuse that exists in my bioNic mom and bro. To free myself, from thinking that this kind of thing can control me, affect how I feel about myself and my actions, where my Dad just ran away instead.
I've been keeping up with your posts Penny - here and elsewhere - and it's amazing to me how quickly you're healing; how much progress you've made in only a few months of working. It took me years to make that kind of progress.... and I am still having to revisit my old lessons and remind myself and seek out reassurance and validation before I'll allow myself to trust my own judgement and instincts. I'm way better than before, though!
Big hugs to you...
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Hops, I know what you mean about good crying ((((((((((((Hops))))))))))))))))))) My T is always saying she wishes I could see myself as I am, rather than as my mother made me think I am. I bet the same applies to everyone on this board. We're all doing incredible things but being made to think we just aren't good enough. (((((Hops)))))))))) xxx
Phoenix, I can't imagine how hard it is having to have such dealings with someone you really don't want to be around! I think my lack of contact with my family has helped me so much, I can't imagine how hard it would have been if I'd had to have kept in contact with them for some reason or another.
I do feel like things are moving quickly but........(there's always a but!) I haven't done masses on the sexual abuse yet and I think that's going to really upset the apple cart. It's next on my list of things to tackle. I've been writing bits down to take in to my next session and I can feel it making me bubble up and start spinning. But I'm going to do it. I need to get through it and get past it. I've met a nice guy. I've no idea whether anything will come of it or not, or whether it will be a friendship or a romance, but either way I'd like to do this 'normally' - having normal feelings rather than reactions based on things that happened years ago. So I'm trying to see it all as a learning curve. I've known this guy for a long time but we lost touch for about ten years. He knows what happened when I was young - not in detail but he knows things were bad. He also lives a long way away - about three hours in the car - which for me is a good thing because I feel like I can do things a little bit at a time and just find my feet a bit. If he lived round the corner I'd be rushing in - either towards him or away from him! But this way I have to take my time and at least be realistic about what is going on. I've also got my therapy sessions to use to keep my head straight and I like that idea of being able to go in and say "This is what I'm thinking" and talk it through with someone who I trust will be giving me clear, middle of the road advice (unlike my friends who generally just want guys who will pay for everything, regardless of what their personalities are like!). Hope you are doing okay xx
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Absolutely nothing wrong with "going slow" - both with the new man and where you are in T. Pacing yourself might make the difference between really "getting there" - and just a temporary reprieve.
Sounds to me like you're head is on straight - so trust yourself! You deserve to.
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Thanks, Phoenix :)
I am slowly learning that it's okay to do things slowly! I always used to be in a huge rush. I was forever on to the next thing, trying to predict (force) the outcome - maybe it's all about trying to control everything? Now I'm slowly learning it's alright not to know what the end result will be, just to experience it, see what you learn from it, take it really slowly - if it takes ten years, so what? It's hard though, those old beliefs are so strong! And they pop in and I have to really make myself push them out again and tell myself it's okay, this is how normal people are - even over things like couples being polite to one another. It used to really freak me out, I just wasn't used to it. But it's coming slowly so I am hoping things are changing for the better - even if it is taking ages!!!
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12 years ago, my hubs asked me this question:
which is more important, the destination or the journey?
He wishes he'd copyrighted it!! It's now a mainstream-ism... and I think it was already part of the collective consciousness; but it's a really important question and we revisit it often.
Of course, zen's viewpoint is that it's all journey and there is no destination - so you'd better enjoy travelling! LOL...
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Yep, it's a good question! I think my views have changed over time - maybe through learning more, maybe through just getting older, or perhaps both?
I had a very strong, vivid inner child 'thing' last night, different to anything that I've experienced before. I felt like she was part of me but individual to me as well, which hasn't happened before. She was shaking and crying, absolutely terrified that he was coming. She could hear him on the landing and smell his aftershave. Oddly another part of me was very calm and not at all scared, able to reassure and comfort her. I didn't get much sleep at all and today feel completely 'adult' and myself. It was very strange, before I've sort of felt I'm reacting in a childlike way and kind of worked from that basis but this was much stronger and more direct. I guess this is a good sign, in some ways?
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Yes, indeed - a good sign!
Being able to comfort her the way she needs to be comforted is the "relationship" between you and little Penny. You're now on the "same team" watching out for each other! :D