Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Ales2 on August 18, 2011, 08:42:02 PM
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I know I said in previous posts that I would not take anti-d's for several reasons, most of which is I think they dont work, and I dont think they are prescribed very well, they just go by self reporting, and I dont find that to be the kind of exact science I tend to respect with medical professionals. (I know there is a thread on whether anti-d's work - I read that thanks.)
I have a mutual friend who told me about a study she was involved in for anxiety and I went and got tested and took all the tests. I;m like in the 98thpercentile of depressed and anxious people. I know that the anxiety and depression is killing my job search, but all else (home organization, health, personal hygiene, interest in other activiites) is normal for me. I'm supposed to start tomorrow but I am having my doubts.
What if I get worse on them? I dont have anyone that I see on a regular basis, except checking in with this doctor once a week. What happens if I get worse? No one would notice until my next appointment. I could also get much worse and not be able to look for work at all.
What if I get a job or meet someone I like while on them? I won't be sure they like me for me, since I'll be medicated. And, if I feel better, will I be lulled into a situation that isnt right for me? If I have a better attitude, will that stay or will I get a job, seem Ok and then crash?
What if they dont work at all or I dont adjust well to feeling better? And, how can I really feel any better if nothing external changes for me? That would almost seem delusional to feel better while everything else in life is a mess.
Anyway, at this moment, I want to email my contact there and say thanks, but no thanks. I am scheduled to start the meds tomorrow, but I am filled with so much doubt and anxiety, I am afraid to start. I just dont think its right for me.
Please post as I dont know what to do. Thanks.
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Hi Ales,
A quick gut response I have is that your flood of scary questions is the anxiety talking.
I was prescribed anti-Ds when my anxiety was out of control and they helped tremendously. I took them on and off for years. Now, I've been off them for several years. I am older.
You are not static. If you choose to take them, you always have the choice to stop.
The other thing I can say is, remember: You do not have to take them forever. You could choose to take them for now.
Personally, I think you deserve some relief.
I don't think anti-Ds ruin people. When I first took some Rx for mental/emotional illness...I distinctly remember having a "lightbulb" moment about my previous refusal.
I had the thought, "I am tired of being a hero."
(In my own mind, it had been heroic to suffer. To tough it out.)
In a simpler society, with such acute anxiety and pain, a healer would prescribe roots or herbs for you.
These Rx, for all their faults and misuse...are our herbs.
Good luck with this decision, and whichever way you decide...be kind to yourself.
Hops
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We can't know the unknown, Ales -- ahead of time. No one can say for sure how you'll feel, what will be better or what worse, or if you won't notice a difference at all. That's kinda the beauty of the fact that we're all unique. The "you" that you think/feel you are is allowed to change... even for YOU. I had to learn to not be afraid of that. (OK, I'm still learning...)
I relate to your anxiety (have my own flying monkeys) about whether you'll still be and feel like "you", after the drug begins to take effect. That's exactly how I feel about finally quitting smoking. What if I become a flaming bitch and the trade-off for not smoking is that I alienate my small, but growing network of friends and family??
On the other hand - you KNOW exactly how you feel right now, and from your inquiries into the study it would appear that you at least are curious about whether you would be one of those helped by this drug. Knowing what you know about you - now - do you expect improvement to just "happen"? Or, are you willing to dedicate serious effort to change, on your own? I'm talking an all-inclusive obsession with "getting better" and healing. Can you really afford that? What are the cost/benefits of that, versus a short-term run of a drug that would appear to have some possibility of helping?
IF - one of your main goals right now is employment... and you feel your anxiety is what is getting in the way... and you have inquired as to whether you might receive a benefit in this area, from the docs doing the study (I would think you'd want some hope from them, that their drug would help you -- as a condition of participation; not a guarantee... just a probability or liklihood)... then, it's time to ask them whether you have the option to stop at any point in the process.
IF you decide to go ahead and participate, for your own sake - journal each day - specifically about the drug and any changes you notice. The journal can become your "bread crumb" trail... like Hansel and Gretl... it will reflect back to you how you feel, whether you feel "out of control", or better... and the anxiety receding... confidence building... you need that kind of data to feel comfortable, I think -- I know I would!! I think most of these drugs take a week or two to really build up and become effective in one's system... so the journal should capture the slightest change, don't you think?
Or start a thread (or use this one)... to check in with someone every day. I know you want to feel "safe", kiddo. I know I would!! I would think that the folks doing the study would also be interested in protecting your well-being and would need to monitor that on a daily basis to detect (early) any changes... and intervene for your safety, at the earliest point possible if something goes awry. When a system like that is in place... then the decision is simply a personal one:
try it and maybe like it.... or not...
but you'll never know unless you try it...
there are non-drug options to managing anxiety; I've learned a good many of these... but even after years of practice, I still have my meltdown moments... I've simply accepted them and my hubs has learned how to help me and what the warning signs are. Over time, they are less frequent and less intense. But it doesn't seem as if you have the luxury to wait on "slow change". Let us know what you decide to do!
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Hi, Ales.
One more question, and my apologies if this makes you anxious: What if you get the placebo?
It sounds to me like you are a bit more open to taking meds. Would it be out of the realm of possibility to talk to your T, then find a Pdoc, and have your meds prescribed and monitored the "old fashioned way"?
I'm not sure what the value of taking part in a clinical study would be...unless you're feeling pressured by your friend?
Just a thought.
Wishing you some peace,
Lollie.
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Hi Lollie -
To answer your question - there is no placebo. Patients get one of 2 actual FDA approved meds - because they are testing something else. I'm being monitored through blood tests and other objective indicators (for study confidentiality can't say what) but it was the major enticement to me since they are looking at more than mood and self reporting. Cant really talk to my T anymore, I think that door is closed now.
Thanks so much Hops and Phoenix for the thoughts. I agree w/ you Hops, I could use the relief and like Phoenix said, I can try it. I can drop out of the study if it doesnt go well and its only 8 weeks. Maybe not even enough time to see if they will work for me.
Thanks for the responses. I decided to do it and will start today.
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I guess what I am really afraid of is that it wont work and that my problems are insurmountable and I should just accept this as who I am. Some people are meant to live happy and well adjusted lives and I am just not.
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Went to my check up appointment. They do several tests including an interview that was painful. Its hard for me to verbalize my feelings of despair and hopelessness. It makes me feel worse. Its like reopening a wound each time I go there. I wonder how the wound is supposed to heal (I guess thats what the medication is for). I come home feeling drained and its almost like the label of "depressed" makes me feel worse. I just want to go lay down.
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it's not a character judgment, really!
Docs don't feel the weight of the label, but just try to think of it the same way you would when a mechanic starts using scary (expensive) words like "transmission">
Years ago, it'd have been called "melancholia".
It's part biochem, and maybe part sanity. You know?
Don't fixate on the word, focus on being opening to the possibility of feeling better.
(And most SSRIs, as I recall, take about 6 weeks to reach effective blood levels...so, patience will help...)
Maybe in about 6 weeks you'll wake up one morning and NOT feel like attacking yourself.
Then you'll know it's helping!
love,
Hops
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Its hard for me to verbalize my feelings of despair and hopelessness. It makes me feel worse. Its like reopening a wound each time I go there.
Well. Of course it makes you feel worse! You are absolutely correct that you are re-opening a wound. This all by itself, does help drain some of the toxic stuff out of the wound. But it's not enough, really. You need the antibiotic; the compassion, the caring about you and how you feel... before the wound starts to heal from the inside out. It's like a nutritional deficiency... like when people crave vitamin-c rich foods... only it's an emotional deficiency. You crave the connection, caring, and ability to rely on another person to care for you...
you need this antidote which has no known physical interactions or side effects in conjunction with whatever chemical cocktail they've given you.... with or without the chemicals, this antidote works -- over time. There is no known "instant gratification" mind-changing substance to (guaranteed) make you "feel better" except maybe laughing gas. You can safely seek this "antidote" at the same time, to help supplement and kick-start the drugs... and perhaps after the study and drug is over, continued seeking and obtaining this emotional nutrition over time will "cure" you.
Here's a sample:
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Ales2)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
It will be OK; it will be alright. Keep breathing!
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Thanks Hops and Phoenix.
I just got back from my check in/interview in the depression study. I'm in week two and I'm pissed. Here is wh:
I asked about my belief that people have set happiness/depression set points - i.e a genetic factor that makes them what they are. So, I asked if they were doing the genetic testing, would I get to find out my own results. Evidently NOT. It was explained to me that I am known as a research number and no feedback is given. I'm pissed. I feel EXPLOITED. What is the point of my participating in the study if I can't learn about myself? Oh, yeah, free medication.
Did I say I feel EXPLOITED.
I was frustrated because my interviewer didnt seem to understand that I'm 43 and have a longing to have my own family. Not having a family is basically a life half lived. I'm terrified to go back to work because my life will be out of balance again and it doesn't solve my weekends and holiday loneliness.
Anyway, I doubt this stuff is helping at all and I am ready to quit the study. I feel very much that its my mistake to have my wellbeing and happiness into an outside source again. I'm going to wait until next wednesday when I have to go back, but will probably quit the study. I dont see how it can possibly help me.
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I was frustrated because my interviewer didnt seem to understand that I'm 43 and have a longing to have my own family. Not having a family is basically a life half lived. I'm terrified to go back to work because my life will be out of balance again and it doesn't solve my weekends and holiday loneliness.
Hi Hon...
Maybe the drug isn't going to effect any of these things you listed. Directly. Maybe indirectly - one thing leading to another - that's still a possibility... it's just impossible to predict the future, so I wouldn't bet the farm on it.
I do see that you have gotten a benefit, though. In that the list above is a real clear statement of "what you want". Damn, girl! You're allowed to want what you want! And knowing what that is, is half the problem solved already. The other half is a lot of work, some luck, and plain old chance.
Be careful tho'. It's kind of a mental trap to say - "I can only be happy IF _________." I could debate the validity of the idea that a family is absolutely necessary to a full life, too. (But, if it's what you want... ask yourself: what's STOPPING you? What are the steps to getting there?) And I admit, I don't understand how working will put your life out of balance. Can you explain that in some more detail? I know from experience, that working has been a great way to develop the kinds of relationships that spill over into off-hour friendships, romances, etc. Both hubs and I have lots of friends from "work" - though we haven't worked for a year or two now - that we still see and enjoy being with. I met my last 2 husbands through jobs I worked... including the current one. Even ex #2 was a long term relationship; it revolved around parenting since we did the "Brady Bunch thing" - his and my kids.
It sounds as if you were expecting help from the study and the researchers. I guess there was some lack of or miscommunication about what to expect for the duration? I can see why you're upset with them. I'd feel that way too if I was allowed to hope that participation would bring me a great benefit very quickly. However, it might be too soon to tell how the drug is/or will affect you... didn't someone say that it could take 6 weeks for it to build up in your body/brain?
Are you having any negative effects from the drug? Or something that you can't explain at all? Like sleeplessness, sleeping too much... etc?
I'm real sorry that you aren't getting any specific info about yourself from being a participant. I hear you and your desire for real help. Maybe you could try to find a therapist to augment and support and help you deal with (any) effects you might have from the drug? To do what being in the study isn't going to provide. And I'll share what I recently read about DNA and emotional/psychological/neuroscience stuff: your DNA (especially brain) itself can adapt and evolve in response to your environment. Genetics is no longer considered a "life sentence" or unchangable. (That said, it takes a long, long time and a lot of work... and being lucky and having other help, doesn't hurt, either!)
I wish there was something else I could do, Ales... other than just play devils advocate here. I'm just trying to feed back some of what I'm hearing you say... and show it from another perspective. Maybe that'll help find the answers you want. (I can only hope so). I am listening... so keep venting! And here's another hug for good measure...
(((((((((((((((((((((((((Ales2)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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I'm going to quit the study. It wont help. Thanks for the advice, Phoenix.
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Hi Ales,
I thought I posted this but mebbe I goofed.
I am sorry to hear you're quitting so quickly, before blood levels have a chance to change and affect your depression.
Your thought is a pre-determination that you cannot be helped... If so, you might be right.
On the other hand, your thought might be the depression talking (the voice or thought patterns of depression itself can sabotage new paths, or healing).
Your thought, "It cannot help me" -- especially so early in -- could possibly be incorrect.
I don't know.
It's hard to think of a "thought pattern" as an actual symptom (rather than ideas me-myself am rationally generating).
That realization was a revelation to me in reading about alcoholism.
Later, I realized the exact same thing is true for some thought cycles in depression. Some thoughts are more symptom than reasoning.
In clinically real depression -- I found that my own ruminating negative thinking was often not helpful -- or, as it turned out, accurate. (Not that ALL my thoughts made no sense, but that the symptomatic ones that actually impeded/blocked/irrationally ruled out possibility--were mixed in with the "smart stuff".)
Perhaps the SSRIs (with or without data you have decided you must have to receive benefit from participating) could -- might still -- be a way of detouring your depressive symptoms to some relief.
The objective thing I'm thinking about is that quitting before there's a biological chance for them to affect you means you choose not to give your body/brain a chance to find out.
It is certainly a free choice. I might make the same choice if I were you. But I wonder if you'd like to analyse that thought (It cannot help me) one level further. Simple as the thought sounds, it does have more than one meaning. Perhaps, it might help you to look at that specific thought more closely:
I am choosing to quit. It is my free choice.
This choice is also reflecting, in addition to freedom, the fact that I am not willing to give the SSRI time to affect me.
versus...
It -- the study, an external thing -- I will think about as another example of something letting me down, crushing hopes, proving to me the accuracy of my (depressive) belief that I cannot be helped.
In the "I choose to quit" example above, freedom is critical.
What I propose is that you invite yourself to own (without any self-criticism) the second half of what it is. It's fine to choose not to give it time. You absolutely can decide that. But not wanting to give it time (or endure the waiting) is a different reason than, "I already know what the outcome is."
I already know what the outcome is the thought that sounds to me like depression talking.
Do you think there is a possibility that you have closed the door on something for yourself?
Sending strength,
Hops
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the only good thing so far is that i have absolutely lost my appetite and any interest in food at all. it makes my existing insomnia worse. not sure how long can stand that.
hops - i will answer your post next ....
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Ales2:
My opinion is that one has to take research studies with a grain of salt. Typically they are collecting data eventually into aggregate form (no faces, no names). Research is very statistical and impersonal. The published results of the study will inform future treatment methods, the goal is to collect data not to cure you. I'm sorry for saying this, it just sounds as if you have put a large amount of hope in the results of this study on your personal situation when usually they are trying to extract something very statistical and broad in nature, it's probably not a substitute for individual treatment. IMO
They do entice people because it's how they get compensated. People need to think there is a reward.
Some people get involved in research because they want to further knowledge and that is probably the most reasonable expectation to get out of a study is to know that you have contributed to an increased knowledge base on a subject.
PS:
You stated that the medication has been researched and now they are looking at a different aspect (not the efficacy of the meds) with the particular study your in.
I guess you just determine how long you are willing to try out the medication and then decide if it is working for you or not.
I tried Prozac long time ago, Paxil, Wellbutrin, Zoloft.
Now I am not on anything because I'm pissed off! But that's just me. The Wellbutrin worked the best for me so I did take that for a number of years and it helped me through my workaholic years. The main result that I noticed was that I got more tasks accomplished but it didn't make me "happy" just more productive or focused.
Trying to find help and figuring out what the "right" help is has been very frustrating for me also. Wish you better luck.
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Yeah, its probably not a good substitute for individual treatment, I get that. I wish I had not done the study and I will take the first out I can. Its not going to work and I probably won't get out of it what I'd hoped. So, what else is new?
Thanks for all the advice.
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I had a very bad day, lots of anxiety yesterday and a sleepless night. Very worried that nothing will change for me even if I stick with the medication. Can't get unstuck from this and its killing my motivation and productivity. Not sure I can get anything done at all today.
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((((((Ales)))))
Anxiety is horrible and I understand it very well.
I suffered from incessant worry (still do sometimes) and disabling panic attacks for years.
I swear to you, medication was a miracle during the time I needed to learn how to self-manage the panic.
It's not the study or the Rx that are the obstacle, it's the thinking.
I know how hard it is to turn your mind in a different direction (say, pushing a locomotive off its track without help, with one arm, in the rain)...
...but please have faith it can be done. Keep trying to calm yourself.
Keep trying on, even if you can't believe in them, positive thoughts.
Chant to yourself, go for a walk and repeat something like I will abide, it is getting better, with every step.
It truly is "faking it until you make it." And it's okay.
You're rewiring your own thought channels.
love,
Hops
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The thing that triggered the anxiety was that I read a journal from exactly a year ago and it very plainly told me that I have learned nothing from what I went through last year and I keep repeating the same mistakes for the same reason.
1. Projects don't get finished b/c I want approval, not a completed project.
2. People who have lied to me, I give them another chance because
a.I had a crush/got emotionally attracted to someone not at all available to me (read Dr.G article on people repeating not out of masochism, but in attempts to heal. I'm NOT healing at all)
b. I always choose to give others the benefit of the doubt and look for the good in others, even when that hurts myself (thats masochism)
c. He turned out to be exactly what I thought he was. Its a year later and I still have not learned.
All this concerns me because I dont know how to rewire this part of my functioning. There really is no use in feeling better if I can't make better judgements and decisions and attract better people in the future. I keep repeating the same dead ends and wonder why nothing moves forward.
How can medication possibly help that? Therapy certainly did nothing for me in this area. I chronically choose people who disrespect me and I chronically disrespect myself, but am blind to it at the time.
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Ales, sometimes exercise and spending time with other people in mild low stress social situations has helped me a little bit just to get a feeling like things are a little bit okay.
I hope I didn't discourage you. Taking medication or not taking is such a personal choice and it seems to be different for everybody.
But all it really does is "level you off" as they say, it changes the brain chemistry but I don't think it can change your habits or cause you to find the man of your dreams. Finding the right medication is probably not going to = the American dream. So if you are trying out medications but you are deciding whether or not they are working based on if your hopes of relationship etc have been fulfilled then maybe you are assessing the efficacy of the medication on wrong criteria?
I think you need to decide if your medication is working based on simple things like are you sleeping better and do you have more energy..you know stuff like that.
You know if this doesnt make sense or doesnt help just ignore my comments.
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Wanna know a secret Ales?
I've got 16 journals that all pretty much say the same thing; written since 2004... what's that 7 years? And yes, I'm still struggling with self-sabotage and self-harm (including kicking myself - judging myself too harshly, and expecting way more out of myself than is reasonable for a human being). I still get disappointed in people that I trust... sometimes it's bad; sometimes it's a forgivable mistake but still makes me more wary - or tired & depressed about the human condition. At the moment, I'm not communicating real well with hubs... and feel pretty emotionally needy... it's coming out in physical ailments too... and I don't have a clue where THIS came from or what to do about it. Maybe it's a new inner self strategy to sabotage myself again...
... or maybe it's simply "growing pains"... emotional ones... as I get to used to and assimilate that 7 years worth of multiple (yet redundant) <sarcasm> "brilliant flashes of insight" </sarcasm> into my own dysfunctional state of being, that I came to in all those journals.
But hey! THAT'S ME... not YOU. Point being, there is no "normal" timeframe... no yardstick... no shoulds... about where you get to, when, in the recovery from abuse process. It's just so unfair and not really possible to compare ourselves to other people or some concept of "normal", for a lot of reasons. Because it takes a long time to completely rewire one's brain - and the method of rewiring is repetition - I believe (you don't have to) that's one of the reasons we "repeat" experiences in the healing process. The other reason for repeating experiences, that I'm currently exploring, is that we're "waking up" our emotions each time. Feeling them more and feeling different things. Some of those things are scary; many are good. Feeling feelings is a GOOD thing; it's how humans are designed to be... and I am just wacky enough to include all the negative feelings, too. Which leads me to my theory... (please bear with me; I'm "chatty" and in professor-mode this a.m.)...
Emotional pain, anxiety, depression (some of the time), anger, despair, self-pity, and what I'll call just general emotional agony and frustration... are all symptoms of a conflict in our being that grew in response to abusive FOOs in our development years. Sure, symptoms can be severe and require medical (Rx) intervention. That's not bad in and of itself. Each to his/her own, in their own needs and present moments. Like Hops has said... it can help one get to "another place" - another frame of mind - in which to address and deal with things more productively. But all it does is treat the symptoms, IMO, so that one can "carry on". It does NOT deal with or change the original source of the problem. It may, for some people, help them get to that frame of mind where they CAN begin to address the source of the problem.
I'm one who has bizarre reactions to drugs, so that wasn't an option for me. I knew and had to persuade the people trying to help me (MD, T) that it would only make things more complex, confusing, and essentially postpone doing what I needed to do - get to the source of why I was in this battle with myself and finally understand why I am this way... and be able to figure what in the world I could do about it. And perhaps making this choice, only made things harder on myself - it was certainly more painful - but looking back now, from this perspective, I see that being allowed to FEEL all my pain... all those awful emotions... was my "way out". To simply HEAR myself wail and rant and bitch and... well, HEAR MY SELF. To know "who I am". It was exactly what I was fighting to NOT do - resisting by clinging to avoidance of my pain and agony... trying to run away from it before I even knew what "it" was... so of course I was over-anxious... exhausted... because:
everywhere I went there "it" was.
I am better than I was. I have some control over my need to harm myself, kick myself, or even change my routines and habits. It's not a lot of control and I still have to put forth effort, focus, and concentration. I have to lecture myself sternly... to not treat myself exactly the way my mom did. I even woke hubs up the other night - talking in my sleep - while I was dreaming I was screaming at myself in a last-straw rage. All of this is part of the growth, development and re-wiring process. Even that dream was a positive development because I am angry with myself and I might as well SAY so and express the emotion and really FEEL it -- otherwise how will it ever change, diminish, or be let go??
Avoiding FEELING (anything & everything) is my problem... it was my response to my particular set of warped, sick, perverse family mind-games and abuse. And this caused the anxiety and depression symptoms I had; one feels even when one is trying not to (no, those feelings are not all gone... 'coz guess what? Even "normal" folk experience these feelings in response to real-life situations. Not to be confused with feeling those "symptoms" for no rational reason or way out of proportion to reality.) It also caused a form a paralysis in my life; where all this bad stuff happened to me and I couldn't do anything about it. I didn't know what to do about it... because I didn't know what I wanted; because I kept avoiding my feelings - including the good ones: fun, happy, want... need.
Well, hell. Enough about me and where I've been on the path! I wanted to post something yesterday because I HEARD the feelings in what you wrote, real clearly, Ales. And I heard you asking to be shown the way out, too. And I felt I wanted to reach out to you and pull you right out of that place to someplace a little more comfortable. But I wasn't sure I could explain at least my way out, clearly enough or that it was a good fit for you. If it's not - just move on and ignore what I wrote.
What I wanted to tell you (and all the rest is back story masquerading as preamble)... is that you need to cut yourself a break. If you're having a day when you're just not up to anything - THAT'S OK. Curl up on the couch and read a book or watch soaps or movies all day. Sometimes, all that frantic "doing" is only digging the exhaustion, frustration and anxiety hole deeper. Do whatever you FEEL like doing... go back to bed and pull the covers over your head... stay in your jammies all day and don't answer the door or the phone. Do whatever works for you to rest, relax, feel cozy and safe and taken care of. We are allowed to take a time-out from this work... we are allowed to take a whole day (or live large & take two days!) off... from all this... to be Scarlett O'Hara and say: "I'll think about this tomorrow..."
You are allowed to be... whatever you are... right this minute and if you're exasperated with it all, then take some time off from trying to fix it! Kick all the feelings of guilt, or shoulds, or "other people" to the curb with a resounding F-you! Anxiety about getting too comfy shows up? Set an alarm clock for as long a time ahead as you want or can, given your life obligations... and make a deal with yourself, that you'll re-assess where you are THEN, do what you have to do and if you need more time off - schedule it.
You are allowed to do this because it's called taking care of yourself. You will probably feel some things while you do this. Just feel them, OK? Then let it drift off... distract yourself... don't think about the feeling. Cry if you feel like it. Beat pillows if you feel angry. Yell at the tv... cheer... laugh... and give your brain a rest. Tomorrow will be better. Just hear your self. Write some more if you feel like it... see if the tone is different today.
It's OK, it's all right - even if it doesn't FEEL like it right now. You're doing all the right things and going in the right direction.
JEEZ... anyone wanna soapbox??? (sorry that was so long Ales... and I really hope it helps a little.)
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Thank you both for your posts and insight. It was very helpful!
I went in for my check up today and as it turns out, the bad day last week was a PMS day, although my thoughts on the matter are the same, my anxiety level decreased over the week and I had a decent weekend. My check today indicates that the medication is working.
The things that still concern me are:
1.There is no substitute for family. The holidays are coming up and I might be alone again this year. Going to friends or events on the actual holidays makes me feel worse, so I avoid that. Ever year I say I will meet my match and well, 43 single christmases and no such luck. My dream of having my own family is fading very quickly.
2. Still dont know how to attract different bosses or jobs or relationships, so keep repeating same dead ends. Not sure how this can or ever will change.
3. Productivity on the job search and writing is still not happening. This HAS to change if I am going to get anywhere, but #2 keeps paralyzing me.
Thats about it. I was skeptical that the medication would work, since I think its external stuff, not my brain chemistry, that is making me depressed. My last concern is:
4. I'll get relief from depression, but it will relapse by the holidays or worse, I will have a meltdown. I also have some concern that I only have four weeks left on medication, and I hope they can help me find another resource for medication, if I still need it, when the study ends.
Thats it for now. Sorry I am not responding much to other people's posts these days, I'm just trying to focus on myself and keep my head up. All the best to everyone.
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As hard as that week was, Ales...
you hung in.
That's no small thing.
Courage.
(I know what you mean--I have to begin the anti-holiday battle soon too.)
love,
Hops
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Thanks Hops.
The study coordinator was trying to get me to see that being NC was a success and requires courage, however I view it as a failure - in the sense of not getting along well with others. It causes difficulty for me when others are quick to judge, suggesting that I am the sole problem and not acknowledging any accountability on her part. It should also be noted that in my case, NC is not the result of something that happened many years ago and I've just not been able to forgive, but a continuing, present day dysfunction and verbal abuse that continues to be destructive.
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One of the weird paradoxes of anti-d's is that everyone tells us happiness or wellbeing is on the inside. Taking medication seems to be seeking an outside source to change what is inside. I cant quite wrap my head around that. Feels like I'm becoming nothing more than a drug addict, trying to medicate away the pain. Also, I wanted to ask the depression study coordinator if people who believe that external factors make them happy or well, are not likely to be helped from anti-d'd because they dont acknowledge the inner wellbeing?
I guess I will find out.
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Hi Ales,
I think depression is multi-facted, not as simple as "internal" or "external".
It can be "endogenous" or "exogenous" or a combo. It has causes including:
--stress
--life events
--genetic predisposition
--biochemical imbalance (which the ADs address)
--nutritional status
--ways of thinking/beliefs
Right? So the spiritual or thinking sides of it, which would be internal states, are just part of it.
I think of ADs as a supplement and an aid, while one works to manage and change the things one can, which would include working on attitude, thinking, perhaps sprituality if the term suits.
I don't see a contradiction...or there isn't one for me.
And I'm wary of "everyone tells us" -- you know?
I think what matters most is what you tell you. That's literally you programming yourself with positive and rationally hopeful self-talk...or on the other hand, negative or hopeless self-talk...
(It's what my work is, anyway. Fixing my stinking thinking...such a labor. Being vigilant about what I say to myself....But when I get a 'shift' -- I get it!)
Hops
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When it comes to family, we don't have the power to choose... what's the old kid saying?? ... "but you can pick your friends" (or nose! depending on which version we grew up with). We really don't have to like them, even if we remain associated with them. Nowhere is it written that we have to like people who are mean to us repeatedly... or neglect us... or only know we exist when they want to use us.
When the situation is unrelated people, we have a lot more power; there's no mysterious "attraction" about it. Just as we are interviewed for a job... it's up to us, to interview the people and place we might be interested in working - because you're going to spend a lot of time there! You're allowed to have a checklist of things you're looking for too. And boundaries of what is and isn't acceptable. There really is such a thing as a "good fit" in groups of people. A "click" of understanding between two people, a common frequency of wavelength. And one can do a lot to actually create that, by understanding what the company needs from someone in the position that is interviewed for and "matching" the expectations of the interviewer with someone you know is true of yourself. Don't expect the company to print that in the job description! Even the supervisor may not really know what he/she really needs from an employee in that specific position. Observation of the place of business, repeated and lengthy and in-depth conversations are needed to come to understand what those needs are... so in reality, it's hard to know this before actually working there. It helps if one knows exactly, precisely what one is looking for. If you like a collaborative, team-oriented environment look for people talking together in the building. That kind of thing. And it's perfectly OK to work somewhere for a paycheck - and put up with the "crap" and move on in a while. You're allowed to try to find what works best for you.
I'm troubled tho by the subtext of what you wrote - the 4 numbered items - so, I have to ask you Ales... even tho I feel it's impertinant, none of my business and suspect you'll feel it's personal, so you don't have to answer though I hope you'll at least consider the possibility...
that somehow you're blaming yourself for all that is missing in your life. That there's something wrong with you, because your family makes impossible to have a normal relationship with them. That there is some inherent thing - depression, personality, luck, whatever - that you just can't quite put your finger on - that is "all your fault".
That is what I heard you saying - not in so many words - in what you wrote... those 4 numbered items. Maybe I misheard, or heard my own experience instead and if so I apologize and please just toss this in the trashbin. If there is any truth in my perception of what you were really saying... then also consider that many times, many of us who grew up with these warped parents are also programmed to blame ourselves whenever anything isn't absolutely, over-the-top, perfect with us and our lives. As a consequence, we develop these patterns in our lives of driving ourselves beyond reason and exhaustion looking for the "perfect" that gains us entry into the cherished, beloved, supported and protected status of self that should've been given us as children. It's a crap snowball that just gets bigger over time and through repetition. This can show up in a lot different ways, too. Paralysis... that inability to get up and do what needs to be done that so resembles depression. Or frantic running around doing things that are completely irrelevant to the real task waiting to be done (busywork, to distract ourselves). Or something else... some other kind of "coping" mechanism to bandaid our discomfort and hurt while trying to carry on.
I also heard that you might be open to fixing something internal (along with the externals) to de-program this reflex in yourself. I think that's a big positive for you to start exploring. So, one "trick" that works sometimes, is to learn to recognize when you're blaming yourself, putting yourself down, or saying you're not worthy of what you want. We do this in those lightning fast thoughts that are dragging around criticism, judgement, and condemnation -- blame. We can learn to talk back to those thoughts. Tell 'em off! Tell that thought - "YOU DON"T KNOW ME" - and stop the repetition in your head, until you begin to feel that those thoughts were unfair... and you didn't deserve that. Then, start your own cheering section and pat yourself on the back for submitting that resume today... for chatting with and smiling at a stranger in a checkout line... and... doing all those things that you know are going to help you get to what it is you want from life. Even if it comes to nothing "this time"... it's practice. Even if you make an embarrassing mistake... it's practice and you're learning... to be you from a different "feeling place" about yourself.
And you're completely free to disown any of the unwanted "programming" that was brainwashed into your feelings about yourself. It's NOT like DNA (oh... and the science nerds are even learning to alter DNA). Thought patterns do have the power to wreck and sabotage our own internal wills to live and thrive in well-being. We can hand them back to the people who never even gave us a chance because of who THEY were. And this does work - but it's more like mastering an art that takes time and needs constant tweaking... nurturing... to flower. And over that time, one hits this abstract "plateau" on the learning curve - where some skills become automatic, they don't take conscious awareness and concentration to execute. Just like you don't have to spell out every word that you type... you just "know" to do this. Once you hit the plateau - then you start learning faster & faster & deeper - your momentum picks up... your normal energy levels return... and just about "everything" looks unquestionably - but also undefinably - different.
Like the difference of 256 shades in a grayscale photo - and 16 million color pixels.
OH... and hon, it's also not your fault that this might not work for you or that you don't already know how to do this (maybe you do & I'm just babbling, too). There ARE other ways through the legacy of "us" to a new, better "us".
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OK, well it appears that the medication is not at all working. I am just as depressed and apathetic as I have been even more so. Its just not working. It looked like I had some improvement but it really wasnt more than a couple of good days where I felt better but nothing, not even my productivity changed. If my productivity does not change I cannot expect anything to get better at all. Simple as that.
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Got any exercise going, Ales?
I have to literally force/demand/cajole/out the old sweats on the floor in front of the toilet so they're the first thing I encounter in the morning, then go-quickly-so-I-don't-wake-up-until-I'm-halfway-down-the-sidewalk...to get myself to go for a walk in the morning.
BUT.
Every single day I do do it -- less depression.
xo
Hops
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Hi Hops - I used to run 6 miles in the morning before work and kept up the routine of working out in the morning. But now its worse, I have no appetite and have insomnia that robs me of the sleep I need to be able to exercise. I've probably walked 5 days out of the last 14. Everyone seems to think running helps depression, but it has not worked for me. If I am depressed, the running doesnt help. When I feel better I also exercise better and at a better intensity.
But thanks for that thought.
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I sure get what you mean about the insomnia--too tired--more insomnia...cycle. Ugh.
That said (preaching to myself actually)--if you could FORCE the exercise for one week (maybe a week and a half?) ... you'd begin to sleep better, right?
I had denied myself the pleasure of being physically tired at night.
I went totally sedentary. Lost the connection to my body because my brain was depressed.
Sending you some hopeful thoughts...
Hops
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Running or exercise doesn't help at all with the insomnia unfortunately.
I think the real problem is productivity. I'm so ready to move on but I dont have the things I need to pour my energy into and its very frustrating.
Today started out good, but ended badly. I'm on an emotional rollercoaster all day. Only two more weeks and I am done with the study. I cant wait to get off this medication. Its awful. Glad I tried it, but clearly, my depression is situational its not the brain chemistry.
The monitor lined up a place for me to get medication and support when the study ends, and I'll collect the info just in case, but cant wait for the next two weeks to be over. Never again with the anti-d's. When I am done, I will post my thoughts from my journals on the "do anti'ds work?" thread.
Thanks everybody for supporting me during this study.
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5 more days and I am off this medication. The last couple of days have been awful - I'm completely depressed, and riddled with side effects. I've heard that getting off this stuff can be awful and I dont want to be on it one more day then I need to. I won't know until wednesday what it actually is since the study was a double blind test. Also, they may really have prescribed the wrong medication for me - the two medications affect different brain chemicals and its possible I got the wrong one. We'll see.
I knew I was going to regret doing this study and I was right. I should listen to my intuition more often.
I dread the weekend, and cant wait to be free of this stuff.
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Boo. Read my first post and there it is - I was right - I wish I would have followed my intuition...
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So, what happened, Ales? Do you know which medication yet?
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I'm so sorry it hasn't helped you, Ales.
Do you know what type of depression you're diagnosed with?
You mentioned roller coaster, and because of what my D is going through (and what I've been reading), I was wondering about mood stabilizers (which she won't take...and which might not be at all appropriate for you anyway).
I really am so very sorry it hasn't helped...had such hopes for you.
love to you,
Hops
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Phoenix - not sure which medication yet - but my guess is Lexapro. There are two used in the study - lexapro and wellbutrin and although I dont know which medication they gave me just yet - my guess is lexapro because the side effects match more closely with lexapro. I wont know a definitive answer until wednesday.
Hops - I barely qualified for the study and its for people with Major depressive disorder. They work very hard to screen out people who are bi-polar, so I'm confident that I was diagnosed properly. But now, I understand that lexapro affects serotonin and wellbutrin affects dopamine - so maybe I'm not taking the right medication to affect the right brain chemical. We'll see.
Sadly, this is what I expected (i.e anti-d's dont work) and I guess I felt a little hopeful when the side effects kicked in, I thought it was working, but guess not. Funny thing is that on paper I seemed to have improved because I had some relief of some symptoms, but not the ones I needed the most. I hope they dont consider me a success story because I'd have to say, uh, no, not really.
I will ask when I see them next if there is any chance it might still improve, but the study is ending, so I doubt it. :(
Thanks all for your support.
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Huh. I took Welbutrin for a short time - it was supposed to help me stop smoking. I also suffered insomnia - and during the day, I could tell I was I tired; almost to the point of exhaustion... but the drug acted like methamphetimines on me - I was moving at warp speed all day.... oh yeah, and smoking twice as much as a consequence.
Dr. suggested I halve the dosage... but no relief for me, until I completely stopped the drug. So, later, when someone offered me lexapro... I took them back and decided the anxiety wasn't so bad compared to the roulette game of wondering how the drug would affect me... and I started therapy instead.
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thanks phoenix. i was hoping for a little manic energy, a little something to boost my productivity and eliminate the mental fog and fatigue. its didnt happen. i also completely lost my appetite but didnt lose any weight because i was still overeating out of emotional needs, so my mood was not improved enough.
i was thinking over the weekend it would be like taking a shower. remember those morning where you stumble out of bed not quite awake, kind of groggy, but take a nice shower with some aromatic soap, get the sleep out your eyes, brush your teeth and you feel like new, ready to take on the day? i guess that was the kind of feeling i was hoping for from anti-d's. alittle energy, a little clarity. maybe its my expectation that is the problem, but i still have energy, productivity and procrastination problems. i did all the therapy i could at this point and i;m running out of options.
thanks for all the support.
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Yes, I think I can relate to those expectations.
It's not just you, btw. There is no "quick fix"... but there are ways through to the "other side".
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:?
This will be my last post on this subject. My participation in the study ended today. I left with mixed feelings. They regard me as a success story because it looks that way on paper, but I feel like anything but.
My anxiety improved.
My insomnia is unchanged.
My mood (on paper) seems to have improved, but mostly, I don't feel any better.
My productivity/motivation is at an all time low, I have no interest in doing anything or finishing anything, besides basic household chores.
Side effects were minimal, mostly loss of appetite, but I was still overeating, so I did not lose any weight.
Meeting with Psychiatrist in charge of the study was good, but I was intimidated and did not ask the right questions. It was revealed that I was in fact on Lexapro, just as I guessed. I was given a prescription for more meds, including a bigger does of Lexapro and could also take wellbutrin to deal with the low motivation. But, I have decided I am done with the anti-d's I have a one week supply left, but will stop taking them tomorrow. There is no point in continuing.
Thanks to everyone again for your support.