Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: JustKathy on December 08, 2011, 05:38:42 PM
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Well, I thought I was being so clever. I moved in October from AZ back to CA and didn't tell anyone in the family. I was already NC, but decided to go the extra mile and become invisible to them. I just disconnected the phone and left. I was SO looking forward to my very first Christmas without NM's box of insult gifts and her annual guilt letter telling me that she's dying of cancer and has reached her "final weeks."
But nooooo …. yesterday the box arrived, at my new address! I spent hours last night Googling our names, and was not able to locate the new address on a standard online search. None of the usual "info" sites has picked up on it yet and all are still showing the old address. NM just isn't that Internet savvy, unless she paid someone to track us down. At least I know that they don't have the phone number or they would have called by now, but I'm going to replace the voice greeting on my answering machine with the default electronic voice, so if they call, they won't know who they've reached.
I'm not going to open the box. I can only imagine that NM is in an absolute rage over my attempt at disappearing off her radar. Whatever is in that box is probably $5 worth of gifts and a three-page guilt letter that she worked on for weeks. She can't even be sure that the address she found is mine, but was apparently willing to take a chance just to send me a message, and that message is definitely this: "I will NOT be ignored. You cannot run from me. Wherever you go, I will hunt you down like a dog until I find you. I will not, I repeat, NOT be ignored."
Has anyone else gone NC by "vanishing?" I'm wondering if this has happened to anyone else, being hunted down lke this.
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Good Lord, Kathy... what'd she do, hire a PI? Have you watched & followed? [You know, it's not paranoia when the harassment is real...].
This situation might be the exception to the general consensus opinion that it's best not to confront the N, directly. Try - "return to sender; addressee unknown; not at this address". If that doesn't get your point across well enough, then it's time for the direct message - no, I don't recommend face to face; you need hard physical evidence as documentation and backup that you've politely, firmly and clearly requested she leave you alone. Emails archived; letters sent certified mail and delivery receipts attached to a copy of the letter; fax with confirmation of receipt. Writing frustrates them because it's one-way communication that they're not used to... and you can't make paper feel guilty.
Documentation comes in handy, in case she intends to escalate things to the next level (sounds like she very well might). Regardless of your biological relationship, she is engaging in harassment and stalking. In that respect, after you've documented your wish for her to cease and desist, if she continues -- she will have chosen to step across that legal boundary and you are within your rights to ask for a legal restraining order. It's quite possible that the words "emotional abuse" will be taken more seriously in courts, these days. (Too much stuff in the news these days and social awareness is higher now.) I'd say you'd have a pretty good chance of obtaining this, for yourself. That might even feel pretty validating - knowing a judge believed you.
So, the outcome would be - a.) you've confronted her and told her exactly what you want from her (to be left alone) and b.) if she won't accept that and abide by it, you're prepared to take it legal... which ought to give her pause and provide her with a taste of what helpless frustration feels like. However - that last one isn't guaranteed; and it also has a risk associated with it. The risk is that she'll find a way to circumvent the restraining order...
... and if that happens, I guess that only leaves the Witness Protection Program.... or how CIA agents change their identity. Sorry, I don't have any contacts! Kidding aside, I would be tongue-tied with anger and sputtering in frustration if I were in your shoes. "Go away and leave me alone" is plain English; you're an adult; she has to respect that - or at least the law that says she has to respect that. The other thing that occurred to me, is when you receive something from her? Think of it as unsolicited solicitations: junk mail... freebies with a catch... a scam.
It is.
I wish I had better advice for you Kathy. You deserve better. But I don't know what it is... maybe someone else has some ideas.
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(((((((((((((((((((((((Kathy)))))))))))))))))))))))
In case the bat-shit crazy bitch recognizes your handwriting, I'd have someone else write: "Not at this address. Addressee unknown. Return to sender" and dump the unwanted package at the post office. No law says you have to allow the NWomb-Donor to clutter up your new home with her crap.
Bones
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Hi Kathy,
I have a few questions for you...
Was the label on the *Gift* addressed to your new residence in your n-moms handwritting?
Did you fill out a change of address card with the post office?
If the package has your old address on it and you filled out the change of address card then the post office may have forwarded it to you. As far as I know they don't give out the new address and will stop forwarding your mail after a few months unless you make arrangements with them to extend it. Regardless I agree with PR and Bones...Return to sender! (written in BOLD generic print) I hope you have a peaceful Merry Christmas.
Fraidy
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Thanks for the advice guys. Fraidy, the address was done by her, not forwarded by the post office. HUGE label, computer printed. (She never writes anything by hand, too personal I guess. Everything I get from her is typed, including the signature.)
I was thinking of going the zero response route, and leave her wondering if we actually received the thing. She took a huge chance in mailing a package to an address based only on matching names. Hubby and I have very common names (Dave and Kathy), so hypothetically speaking, she could have found two people with coincidentally matching names in her search. The other thing is that we still own the house in AZ. Due the the extremely depressed market there, we weren't able to sell it and had to turn it into a rental. We are still the legal owners of that house, which is a matter of public record. She REALLY jumped to conclusions over a disconnected phone number (if we hadn't moved, we were going to disconnect the land line anyway).
It's going to eat her alive not getting a response, so at some point I expect that she'll order my sister to email me and ask if I got the package, at which point I'll say, "What package?" After all, I live in AZ, and no package ever came here.
I could return it, but even if I use a label or someone else's handwriting, she'll immediately conclude that I returned it, and will use it in her smear campaign. I can hear it now ... she's dying of cancer, and her beloved daughter sent back her presents, bla bla bla. A restraining order would also be the ultimate gift for her because it would be something tangible that she could show everyone. If I let her believe that she screwed up and sent the package to two people who happen to have the same name, oh well, ooops. She lost the package, and worse for her, I got a hassle free Christmas. I never received her guilt letter, therefore, she wasn't able to "get" to me.
A little part of me also wants to know what is in the very thick guilt letter she enclosed. I may one day write a book about N mothers, and really want to publish some of her letters.
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((((((((((Kathy)))))))))))))))))))
I would also respond with: "What package?" and dump the unwanted crap somewhere.
Bones
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Yes! Whatever she sent is probably little more than some socks. She always sends $2 gifts to simply act as a vehicle for the guilt letter. I'll just give whatever she sent to charity.
She won't be able to sleep at night until she has confirmation that I received the package. She didn't send the box with signature confirmation, so she'll have no way of knowing if it arrived, and who actually received it. She'll definitely have a relative contact me to verify that she ruined my Christmas, at which time I'll be able to ruin HER Christmas by letting her think that I dodged this year's guilt trip. :evil:
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It's really creeping me out that she hunted me down though. It's amazing how far they'll go to torment you. They will NOT be ignored. Period.
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JK,
It's not that hard to find accurate information about someone like their address, phone number, credit status (point is, nothing is private anymore) if they are willing to pay. Would your Nmom do that?
I go for keeping the package, no acknowledgment of receiving it. Experientially, I've found that overcoming urges to react to NFOO gives me freedom. If you threw the package in the ocean or river without reading the ugly letter you know it contains, I believe you would feel freedom too. I understand that not everyone is alike. I just put this out there in the mix. If you can use it great. If you need to deep six it great.
It's been said on the board before by others, "The only way to win this game is, don't play it."
Blessings,
tt
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It's really creeping me out that she hunted me down though. It's amazing how far they'll go to torment you. They will NOT be ignored. Period.
FWIW, N's equal The Borg.
I would donate the unwanted stuff to a homeless shelter. If it's only socks, they will be put to good use and you get the tax write-off.
Bones
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It's really creeping me out that she hunted me down though. It's amazing how far they'll go to torment you. They will NOT be ignored. Period.
Yeah. I can understand this. And that's why I'm the devil's advocate - this time - on the ignore vs confront choice. Most of the time, I'd be right with ya on driving her crazy by saying "What package?"
How much peace will you have, wondering what's in the letter? or wondering how far she will go to torment you? Those normal human reactions are still keeping you "hooked" in the game, to my way of thinking. The uncertainty about "how far" is another form of torment, too.
Screw what other people think about you re: your alleged "desertion" of your mother in her illness!! Those people obviously have no clue and their opinion of you doesn't matter. It is still a free country (barely) and there are no laws (yet) that require you to fulfill any lists of criteria/tasks/attributes in exhange for the biological birth that made you her daughter.
That sounds a tad cold and harsh, doesn't it? Sorry about that; I do understand the crazymaking and the torture and the level of frustration you must feel (I'm still doing my own little game-dance with my mom)... I'm just trying to make the point that until you actually SAY... and writing is better for this statement... actually say the words to her, LEAVE ME ALONE... you are still playing the game and your role in it. You can always decide later, if you want to mail the letter. Just write it as if you are. Tell her specifically how far you will go to protect yourself from her crap.
There is a consciousness shift... whether it's cognitive or emotional, I can't say; so it's probably a little of both... that happens once we can passionately make that declaration. It's kinda like saying once and for all: "you can't tell me what to do, feel, or think... anymore... no matter WHAT you do I am free of being affected by it... the way you want to affect me. And it's ok to bask in that feeling a bit, too. SO THERE."
OK - nuff said from me. I know you've got the best perspective on the situation and will do what's best for you.
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Kathy
I haven't been hunted down (it's easy to find me) but I have received rubbish thru the mail. Last time it happened, over a year ago, I took the crap item to the goodwill store. I kept a separate card as evidence of insanity (maybe it's time I should throw it away?). It used to bother me a lot, receiving such stuff. Now it doesn't/wouldn't BUT I didn't feel attacked or guilt-tripped (and the writing I received didn't attempt to do that, so far as i could tell).
Another possible approach would be to force yourself through some kind of desensitisation process. Open the package, read the letter over and over and over until you force out alllllll your fear, anger, grief and so on. Eventually you might find her efforts pathetic (they are).
((((((Kathy))))))
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(((Kathy)))
I'd donate the gifts, and try to dispose of the letter without reading it.
Think of all the thoughts your NM will steal if you read her letter, then have to process what she wrote.
My advice to you is,
NC, NC, NC and NC.
Not for nuthin, ever.
Lighter
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I agree with TT and Lighter. I think it's creepy (and it highlights for me how critical it is that I respect my D's boundaries when she needs space and distance).
So, imo, don't play is best. And don't pollute your head with the letter...if you write a book about N mothers you've given a huge chunk of your future to this whole topic...brutal fate.
My advice is:
Cut out the To and From addresses and discard them.
Don't open the wrapped gifts.
Do not open the letter.
Immediately take the letter, unopened, and burn it without anger. (I mean burn it as one does with infectious material, for cleansing. Not in rage. It doesn't mean hatred, it means...this is unhealthy for me so I am going to deal with it promptly and responsibly.)
Then immediately drive to the nearest Goodwill or Salavation Army and leave the box at the door or loading dock.
Come home and take an incredibly soothing special bath, with candles, and pray something (no deity required) that wishes her well, but releases her to her own destiny.
Eat some soup.
Hops
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WELL ....
I was going to take the letter and burn it, but before I had the chance Hubby informed me that he was dying of curiosity and had opened it. I haven't looked at it, and won't, but he told me what was inside. I don't why, or at what point my perspective may have changed, but I somehow managed to laugh my ass off at it.
He said that the letter was pretty brief. She sent some photos of herself with her shaved head to drive home the point that she's "dying of cancer." Very little was said in the letter other than pleading with us to come and visit them both before they die. But here's where it gets good. She included a check for $500. She closed the letter by saying, "Hope you're enjoying your new house," which can best be translated as, "Ha Ha, I found your new address!"
So here's my thoughts on it. She can't possibly believe that I'm going to come visit after being NC for so many years, nor does she want me to. But she's certain that I'll run to the bank and cash that check. Cashing the check will 1) Provide her with proof that she did in fact find my house and that I got the package, and 2) Gives her pity party material on Christmas Day. "Waaaaaa. Kathy cashed my check and didn't even thank me. Why is she so mean to me?"
So I told hubby to tear up the check and throw it out. We're really hurting right now, and sure could have used that money, but I'd rather go hungry than accept dirty money. So the check has been destroyed, and she'll just have to wonder what happened.
I also find it downright hysterical that she apparently has placed a dollar value on me. My brother has received millions in cars, education, houses, and is sole heir in their will (meaning he'll get the only remaining item, their house). I get .... $500!!!! Wow!!!!! There's simply no way to get inside the mind of an N, but it does leave me wondering if she's able to see the absurd inequity here. Does she justify it in her mind as the golden child being worth millions, and me being worth nothing .... OR .... is she not really cognizant of it, and believes that she's treating us equally? If only their brains could be dissected and the answers could be found.
Anyway, long story short, I'm oddly okay with this, even amused by it. It's so desperate, so laughable, that it's not hurting me. Maybe I've somehow been liberated by the knowledge that I am officially disinherited. There isn't anything at stake, so to speak. My therapists have always encouraged me to maintain *some* contact, just in case I might get some inheritance, which would serve as a small bit of restitution for my pain and suffering. I now know with 100% certainty that I'm not getting a dime when they die, so I have nothing to lose, and can now laugh at their desperate attempts. The things that they've done to me in the past will haunt me for the rest of my life, but for some reason, this year's Christmas Box of Doom managed to entertain me. Does that sound weird?
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WELL ....
I was going to take the letter and burn it, but before I had the chance Hubby informed me that he was dying of curiosity and had opened it. I haven't looked at it, and won't, but he told me what was inside. I don't why, or at what point my perspective may have changed, but I somehow managed to laugh my ass off at it.
He said that the letter was pretty brief. She sent some photos of herself with her shaved head to drive home the point that she's "dying of cancer." Very little was said in the letter other than pleading with us to come and visit them both before they die. But here's where it gets good. She included a check for $500. She closed the letter by saying, "Hope you're enjoying your new house," which can best be translated as, "Ha Ha, I found your new address!"
So here's my thoughts on it. She can't possibly believe that I'm going to come visit after being NC for so many years, nor does she want me to. But she's certain that I'll run to the bank and cash that check. Cashing the check will 1) Provide her with proof that she did in fact find my house and that I got the package, and 2) Gives her pity party material on Christmas Day. "Waaaaaa. Kathy cashed my check and didn't even thank me. Why is she so mean to me?"
So I told hubby to tear up the check and throw it out. We're really hurting right now, and sure could have used that money, but I'd rather go hungry than accept dirty money. So the check has been destroyed, and she'll just have to wonder what happened.
I also find it downright hysterical that she apparently has placed a dollar value on me. My brother has received millions in cars, education, houses, and is sole heir in their will (meaning he'll get the only remaining item, their house). I get .... $500!!!! Wow!!!!! There's simply no way to get inside the mind of an N, but it does leave me wondering if she's able to see the absurd inequity here. Does she justify it in her mind as the golden child being worth millions, and me being worth nothing .... OR .... is she not really cognizant of it, and believes that she's treating us equally? If only their brains could be dissected and the answers could be found.
Anyway, long story short, I'm oddly okay with this, even amused by it. It's so desperate, so laughable, that it's not hurting me. Maybe I've somehow been liberated by the knowledge that I am officially disinherited. There isn't anything at stake, so to speak. My therapists have always encouraged me to maintain *some* contact, just in case I might get some inheritance, which would serve as a small bit of restitution for my pain and suffering. I now know with 100% certainty that I'm not getting a dime when they die, so I have nothing to lose, and can now laugh at their desperate attempts. The things that they've done to me in the past will haunt me for the rest of my life, but for some reason, this year's Christmas Box of Doom managed to entertain me. Does that sound weird?
NOT weird AT ALL!!!!
Sounds like she attempted to buy you as her slave AND FAILED!!! MISERABLY!!!! :D
Bones
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Nope, not weird.
Neither are your assumptions about why this is so funny this time, you know? I've wondered sometimes, if the way their minds work hasn't been hilarious all along...
and I've simply taken it all too personally and been naive to hold the expectation that my mother would love me - for me - without all the other strings, projection, and manipulation. I do wonder that, but then there's the little voice in my head that says:
naaaaaaahhhh.
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(((((((Kathy))))))))
but for some reason, this year's Christmas Box of Doom managed to entertain me.
Just want to say I think you're a very strong, grounded, courageous woman. I'm so glad you and your DH were able to lean on each other and even find some hilarity in the insanity.
Because make no mistake about it...your NM is N-sane in the brain! To me it sounds like she's playing her very last desperate hand. Throwing around money, playing the sick-card. Good for you for not getting too sucked into the drama she's trying hard to create!
lots of love, Kay
P.S.- To everyone who's NC...very good idea to make sure all your utilities bills go to a P.O. box. It's very easy and cheap for Ns to find you on the Internet that way.
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KAY
re your PS above, which countries does this apply in? I'm curious to know more about the mechanics of this (easy and cheap over the web?).
And another question for ALL: is it preferable to be the hunted or the hunting/hunter?
Okay, better not to play the game. But sometimes we are forced to play for our own protection, security, peace of mind. So if you have to choose, is it hunted or hunter?
I hope that's a no-brainer, but hey, we're all different sometimes...
KATHY
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My therapists have always encouraged me to maintain *some* contact, just in case I might get some inheritance, which would serve as a small bit of restitution for my pain and suffering.
IF your therapists were 100% seriously advising you to do that, they need their heads looking and someone to look over their therapeutic methods - just my opinion, which is in fact worth nothing. It seems to me that any T worth the title would at most offer that idea to you to explore your reaction and would make it clear that they were neutral about the idea. But then money, or the idea of it, does funny things to people.
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We have to study, practice and pass a test to drive a car..........
but to have a baby.....
nuthin.
Infants are born to all manner of Cluster B PD parents.
They're mostly left to figure everything out for themselves.
Left to fend for themselves.
It's crazy.
lighter
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FW: when I have any presence of mind at all, I try to remember not to be either hunted or hunter... but to stand comfortably, duck, and let the danger simply go past me...
I sleep better that way! LOL...
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Freshwater: Hmm...I don't know how it works internationally. I meant here in the U.S. A former P.I. once told me that websites like Peoplefinder.com just charge people a $10 fee to essentially pull up the billing addresses attached to their electric bills. Sounds pretty plausible.
P.R: I like that image about just being yourself/holding your ground even as the chaos spins around you. Gives me hope and inspiration.
I'm afraid I'm usually the skittish hunted, quick to run off and disappear when the danger feels to great. But I'm working to find a bit more strength and self-defense.
Kay x
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Kay,
yoga, tai chi, any kind of slow meditative body work seems to help. There's probably a scientific reason for this - neuroscience, nervous systems, etc - but so far I've just been collecting stories from other people who were helped this way, too. I've also noticed that this kind of "exercise" is also great for managing extra weight - despite the recommendations for aerobic or weight training... this kind of exercise works best for me. Maybe it indirectly affects cortisol (stress chemicals) levels?
And it's kinda like eating a nutritious diet - you have to do it regularly to gain the effect. The effect will wear off if you stop doing it. Which makes sense, if one accepts the theory that it balances and moderates both the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system. I need to take my own advice, here - and soon - because I'm starting to have the old "it's all too much" meltdowns again. (A former skittish hunted type, here...)
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Just want to say I think you're a very strong, grounded, courageous woman.
Gosh, thank you Kay. I don't really consider myself courageous, though my coping mechanisms are definitely better than they once were. It took a LONG time to get to this place though. If it wasn't for the Internet, and boards like this, I don't think my outlook ever would have changed. You really need the support of other N victims, which is very hard to find in real-life therapy.
IF your therapists were 100% seriously advising you to do that, they need their heads looking and someone to look over their therapeutic methods
Yeah. I have mixed feelings about that, though at the the same time, somewhat understand it. I have a friend who was the daughter of an N. Just like me, her brother was the GC and was the sole heir, until he died of cancer. When the NM died, she inherited a substantial amount. She took the money and absolutely blew it. Bought expensive cars, jewelry ... all the things that her NM never wanted her to have. She felt totally vindicated, not from having the "stuff," but from knowing that her NM was rolling in her grave over having her money squandered. So I guess it's possible to use inheritance money as a sort of revenge, IF you're lucky enough to get any. I have a feeling that few of us do. But back to the Ts, I doubt that many of them truly understand the nature of being an N victim. I had one who was very knowledgeable about Ns, but always defended the actions of my Co-Father. IMO the only person who is truly qualified to give advice regarding an N parent is another N victim. It's like my neurologist trying to give me advice on my migraines, without him knowing what a migraine really feels like. I don't care how many journals you read, until you've felt it, you just don't know.
Kay, I never thought about people being traceable through their utility bills, but wow, does that ever make sense. If you buy a house, that purchase becomes public record and makes you very traceable, but if you rent, absolutely, those utility bills will lead someone right to you. Years ago we got cheated in a real estate deal, and had to sue the seller. He had gone deep undercover, and was living with a friend. We hired a PI who found him within hours. I think he ran a DMV check, so that's another way of tracking someone. I guess in this day of technology, there's really no way to completely disappear.
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And another question for ALL: is it preferable to be the hunted or the hunting/hunter?
I would have to choose the hunter because the type of people who are hunting us are so unbalanced. I run searches on my NM all the time, just to see what she's up to online, what she's doing for attention, and so on. But it's purely for entertainment. When they hunt US, they do it for malicious reasons. They want to hurt us, so it's a different game.
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Kay
thank you for the info!
Kathy
the only person who is truly qualified to give advice regarding an N parent is another N victim
I think I know what you mean.
I think if we think like hunters, it helps us protect ourselves. And maybe others.
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Thank you so much for the advice, P.R. You're such a calming presence, and you have a way of making everything seem so manageable when life feels topsy-turvey.
love, Kay
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Thanks for the compliment Kay... I hope you don't read my ranting over on the other thread! It'll blow that impression of me being calm, right out of the water!! LOL... I just gotta laugh at it all... including myself.
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Oh good lord. My father just sent me a letter telling me that he and NM are both close to death, that this will be their last Christmas, and to PLEASE (in capital letters and underlined) come visit them for Christmas because they're going to be all alone. All they want is to see their beloved daughter once more before they die. Yes, it seems that they're going to be all alone because the Golden Child is going to spend a few weeks in Hawaii with his N wife, while blowing off his "terminally ill" mother on her last Christmas (this will be "last Christmas" #4, by the way). After all, he has all their money now, so why should he bother to show up? Meanwhile, they're pleading with the daughter who was kicked to the curb and disinherited to show up. Wow. They actually think that it's okay to disinherit one child, gloat about it to her face, then expect her to show up to their Christmas dinner? I mean, what the frack do they expect me to talk about over turkey?
Okay, in thinking about this, they probably DO expect me to be just fine with it. I honestly don't believe that they see anything wrong with giving millions to their son, while disinheriting the target child, and taunting her with it. I really think that I'm expected to accept that I'm inferior and unworthy, because in their minds, I am. Oh well, looks like they're going to have a very lonely Christmas dinner. Hope my brother enjoys spending their money on Maui.
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Oh good lord. My father just sent me a letter telling me that he and NM are both close to death, that this will be their last Christmas, and to PLEASE (in capital letters and underlined) come visit them for Christmas because they're going to be all alone. All they want is to see their beloved daughter once more before they die. Yes, it seems that they're going to be all alone because the Golden Child is going to spend a few weeks in Hawaii with his N wife, while blowing off his "terminally ill" mother on her last Christmas (this will be "last Christmas" #4, by the way). After all, he has all their money now, so why should he bother to show up? Meanwhile, they're pleading with the daughter who was kicked to the curb and disinherited to show up. Wow. They actually think that it's okay to disinherit one child, gloat about it to her face, then expect her to show up to their Christmas dinner? I mean, what the frack do they expect me to talk about over turkey?
Okay, in thinking about this, they probably DO expect me to be just fine with it. I honestly don't believe that they see anything wrong with giving millions to their son, while disinheriting the target child, and taunting her with it. I really think that I'm expected to accept that I'm inferior and unworthy, because in their minds, I am. Oh well, looks like they're going to have a very lonely Christmas dinner. Hope my brother enjoys spending their money on Maui.
Un.....F-ing......Believe-able!!!!!! They BOTH have a LOT of NERVE!!!!! :P Let them experience the consequences of their actions as you have had ENOUGH abuse from the two of those Sickos!!!!
Bones
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OK, so maybe you can write a book from stories like these, Kathy! These people really take the cake. :: shaking head::
Here's my christmas N-tale: my mom lives with my brother (the GC, and up till now, totally co-dependent) and his family. I sent them a package and addressed it "bro + wife + family". I hesitated about the "& family"... I knew I couldn't spell out the kids' names - or my mom would take offense at being left out. Her present is being mailed separately. When it arrived, my mom wanted to open it immediately and see if her present was in the box too. Bro said no... it's not addressed to you... and of course, she went off into a rant of "What? I'm not part of the family anymore?"
I had other things to talk to bro about last night, so he told me this story and I told him: I knew whatever I wrote she'd find a way to turn it negative. I think my bro actually "heard" that... which is progress of sorts. I'm not sure exactly what has changed with him - or if the change is "durable" - but we have been able to have civil, productive conversations lately, even if he still doesn't understand what his title is or what is expected of him by the CPA and lawyers, etc. I do think it helps that I've been chatting with my SIL - his wife - because the poor girl has been casted to play the role I played in that unholy triangle. It's a real good sign that my mom is mad at my bro now... for taking sides with his wife, instead of mommy. SIL & I talked about how her kids shouldn't be made responsible for "taking care of Grandma", too. She no longer leaves them alone with Grandma -- who fills their heads with whispered crap about how bad their mom is, projecting out that mom is "sick", etc. All without realizing that she is - in that present moment - doing exactly what she is accusing SIL of doing. But she does tell ME what she does - and again, doesn't realize the projection... it used to trigger me; my own horror at what she was doing... and I did break a bottle of wine unconsciously during one of those monologues. It affects me less but it does still affect me...
My Christmas present to bro & family is a sort of invitation to come visit me at the beach. No; my mom is NOT invited. I uncontrollably self-destruct when I'm around her. And I can finally say that out loud, even over my bro's insincere, shocked horror that I would exclude my mom. It's an experiment... to see if it's possible to have more than a formal, business boundary limited relationship with bro. And a chance to observe them interact - sans my mom. If he doesn't accept - if he feels he can't leave his mom - then SIL & kids are still welcome. It's up to him to make those decisions and choices for himself.
But here's the deal: once you can learn to laugh at these shenanigans - the pathetic lengths they go to - to make someone, perhaps yourself, feel guilty, responsible, accountable for the rediculous life, self, and world-view framework that they have created for themselves - once it seems rediculously patheticly desperately overly-emotionally "needy"... that means you've put enough distance between yourself and them and the upside-down, inside-out perverse N-games to start building a healthy, meaningful life of your own. Sure, they will "up their game"... but it's all crap they're imposing on themselves, to convince themselves that somebody else is to blame... and to support the pure fictional delusion that they, themselves are victims of your cruelty.
Christmas seems to bring out the worst in Ns - and for us children of Ns, we live in dread of that nameless, unpredictable "spoiler" of what should be a simple, enjoyable, time of sharing. I refuse to let my mom ruin this for me anymore. As a little kid, I couldn't see the mind-games going on; I didn't understand the misery, hostility, etc that was imposed on this holiday celebration. But, you know, kids seem to have some direct link-up with the truth, even if they don't have the words to form the thoughts and understanding. And I think it just broke my heart that my mom couldn't - even for one or two days - put aside all her rules; stop imposing her negativity on everyone else while expecting them to "make her happy" - just for that little bit of time. In my kid-brain, I didn't realize it wasn't just me. Memories of other people reacting to that berserker of negativity that my mom is, are filtering back into my brain.
The worst for Ns is to experience other people enjoying themselves - willy-nilly - chaos of wrapping paper in the air, laughter, happy secrets, yes you can have another cookie, and not having a hissy-fit meltdown about not being in "control" of everyone and everything, at all times. It took a long time for me to realize I'd been so indoctrinated & programmed that the N-version was the "right" way for things to be... that I was doing exactly the same thing to myself and those around me. Fortunately, I did finally come to my senses! LOL. At the christmas party I went to, last weekend, I was literally speechless and just visually taking in the "pretties" that were everywhere in the house. Like a little kid struck in awe at how special that very moment was... and surprise, that someone else saw and thought the little things I noticed (but didn't allow myself to enjoy) were important, too.
Permission to "keep" Christmas - in my own way, and to let others do the same - granted.
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And I think it just broke my heart that my mom couldn't - even for one or two days - put aside all her rules; stop imposing her negativity on everyone else while expecting them to "make her happy" - just for that little bit of time.
Christmas is definitely THEIR day. They own it. It's a special day that's all about them. That's how my NM always saw it anyway. She started preparing for Christmas Day in January. Everything she did, she did with Christmas in mind. It was planned to the most minute detail, with lists, and rules, and perfect order that would keep her both the center of attention and the one in control. The last time I went for a family Christmas I was in my forties, and still had to sit at the "childrens table." I could write pages about the ridiculously obsessive and controlling things she did. She even micro-managed the gift opening portion of the day. It was to be done at a set time, with everyone seated in their designated chairs, and her acting as "Santa," deciding on the order in which we would open our gifts. The worst part for me was the volume of her voice. With so many family members in the room, and everyone talking, she wouldn't allow herself to get drowned out. She would YELL at the top of her lungs all day long. Everyone had to listen to her, whether they wanted to or not. I could go on and on and on.
Now .... speaking of those laughable shenanigans, hubby finally gave me NM's $500 check to tear up. Guess what? It was dated December 26th. I couldn't have cashed it before Christmas if I wanted to. It was a trap. I'd bet the farm that she planned on issuing a stop payment if I didn't show up on Christmas day.
Your story about your co-brother is an interesting one. My brother has also sided with his wife, which has NM coming completely unhinged, but in my case, she's not mad at bro, she's blaming the wife. My SIL is referred to as "The Witch," and has become a convenient excuse for the terrible way he now treats his parents. In her letter, NM explained that her precious GC was going to Hawaii for Christmas because "the witch won't let him see his dying mother." Yeah. Right.
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"The Witch" is the "The Bitch" to my mom, Kathy. And yes, my mom heaps a ton o' blame and accusations on SIL. But she's also mad at Bro for not standing up to SIL, and basically doing what mom wants instead. All 3 of them have been in contact with me this week and I feel the suction of that horrible void of a vacumn starting to pull on me. I do understand why bro works long hours at his office. But, that's just his passive-aggressive defense. He will not speak up in the middle of a disagreement and say: well, this is what I want. He is afraid to; I get it.
It's odd that he didn't have much of a response to my explaining that I knew mom would turn whatever I did, negative. Maybe he's thinking about her behavior himself. And the previous bru-ha-ha I've had with him, could be explained by the fact that he expected me to play the same kind of power-control-projection games... so that was how he responded to me... and when I didn't play and shut him down and asked for outside assistance... perhaps, I got the point across to him that I'm not who he remembers as his sister. He did mention recently that he had no idea what my political leanings were. I'd like to say that I don't know him well, either. But unfortunately, the exposure I have had the past couple years... well. Not much has changed or is different. I would like to be wrong about that.
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But she's also mad at Bro for not standing up to SIL, and basically doing what mom wants instead.
I've been NC with my M for years, but my father has vented a lot of anger at my Bro for doing what his N wife tells him to do. I find it all ridiculously ironic, since Bro is emulating his own father. I really believe that Co-dependency, at least Co-spouses, are a learned behavior and not a genetic mental illness. My brother lives the life that he observed as a child - married an N, and obediently does whatever she says. My F complains that "the witch" won't let Bro talk to him on the phone, while at the same time calling me from his cell phone, because NM won't let him use the phone. My F calls to complain that his son is behaving exactly like he is.
It's odd that he didn't have much of a response to my explaining that I knew mom would turn whatever I did, negative. Maybe he's thinking about her behavior himself.
He may be. I've always gotten this feeling, that deep down inside, my Bro knows what NM is really like, and what she's done to me. He chooses to turn a blind eye because it's in his best interest. If he plays along, he gets treated like a king. He probably knows what a piece of work she is, but he's so darned selfish, and so used to getting free money thrown his way, that it's easier to bury any reservations he might have and just collect his cash and prizes at the door.
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Don't you know? The moment I start thinking there's hope for Bro... he proves me wrong. He called to ask me when we had talked about a certain business task and made the decisions he was being informed were taking place this week. Uh.... like 3 weeks ago? remember?
I swear, I'm starting to think he dissociates on purpose in these meetings, just to drive people crazy later on by not remembering, having panic attacks, or being paranoid that someone's doing things without including him. Kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy, if he doesn't pay attention, isn't engaged in the discussion or taking notes, isn't it? And then he tries to push the old buttons again... but I wasn't playing. The old tapes are trying to start up but I've crossed my arms, and continue to shake my head.... NO, I'm no going there just because he's wack. Maybe those attitudes about me that he holds, are what he witnessed of my mom insisting I was the crazy one?? So, he tries to gaslight me himself? Because of course, Mom is always right... and he could do no wrong in her eyes.
Ack. I've got better things to do than worry about that.
Edit: On second thought... this is a classic passive-aggressive tactic - expect other people to read your mind, make them responsible for what you didn't do (pay attention), and then attack their character to try to make yourself feel better. I forgot that and couldn't figure out what about the call troubled me. I need to remember... because at least half of our interactions are like this... and because part of me "knows" I'm getting suckered... caught in the games again. But if I'm aware of it, it's pretty easy to deal with. It still feels icky - but at least I can shake it off and inform him that he's responsible for himself. And walk away, untroubled by a nagging fear that I'm being set up as a target again. It's also part of the co-dependent script - or trap as I like to think of it - too.
Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries...
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Okay ... coming back to this thread because it makes sense to continue here. They aren't going to back down. File this one under "How low can you go." Last week I got a note in the mail from my father that said my sister had been involved in a very serious car accident, and to please email him with our new phone number so he could give us details. Otherwise, he would mail me another update. At first I freaked, because I didn't think co-father would stoop that low. My first reaction was to go soft on him, and blame my NM. I thought that maybe he couldn't email me because NM was refusing to give him my email address (she's done that before - holds onto it as a form of power over others).
SO, I waited to see if another note would come with news of my sister's condition. Nothing. So at this point I'm assuming that the whole thing was a lie and NM put him up to it. It's now February and I haven't cashed their Christmas check, so she probably instructed him to take things to the next level in an attempt to verify that they have indeed found my new address. They know that I wouldn't respond if the letter were about the GC, or my mother's "cancer," so they went with my sister instead. I hate saying this, but that one no longer gets to me either. My sister hasn't returned an email or answered a phone call in three years because NM has ordered her to cease contact with me. I feel really sorry for her, being as old as she is and so completely brainwashed, but she could have walked away, as I did. She chose to stay under their umbrella, so it's becoming harder for me to care about her as well.
I'm just ANGRY at this point. They don't want me, they don't love me, so leave me alone. But they won't. It means losing control. Can't let THAT happen.
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Ugh.
Kathy, my thought is that if your parent was reaching out because they felt compassion for you knowing that you would want to be updated about a sibling's crisis (assuming hospitalization) and yet they KNOW you do not want to be in contact...if the parent's goal was really to meet a need of YOURS to be connected with what was happening to your sibling, another choice would be to:
Write you ad provide the name and address of the hospital and your sister's room number and the unit phone number if YOU wish to call for info on her condition, and
Give instructions to hospital staff that they have permission to answer any questions when the patient's sister calls
That would genuinely faciliate some connection or closure with you and your sister, if their real goal is supporting your and your sister's future relationship.
Otherwise, I think you're right. They're using this "crisis info" as a manipulation to get you in touch. Even if it's all real and something bad has happened to your sister.
It's still insider-information-as-BAIT.
I understand why you don't want to take the bait.
You could just call area hospitals and ask if your sister is a patient, or ask for her room. If she answers, tell her yourself you wish her well. If your parent/s answer, hang up.
Or you could write a snail-mail letter (email is pointless) and mail it to your sister WITHOUT a return address. Get somebody to mail it from another city if you like.
Ugh
Ugh
Ugh
sympathies,
Hops
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Write you ad provide the name and address of the hospital and your sister's room number and the unit phone number if YOU wish to call for info
Hops, that was exactly my thought. A note of genuine concern would have read: "Your sister was in a serious car accident and has been hospitalized at _______."
My gut feeling tells me that this was nothing more than a fender bender, car is smashed up, she's a little sore. I have an Aunt who has looked out for me all my life, and that Aunt is my sister's boss (ironically, they work at a hospital). If something serious had happened, my Aunt would have contacted me. I think this was probably a minor accident that was used to manipulate me in a major way. SICK! I'm not going to send any cards because that would provide confirmation that I received F's letter, and I want them kept in the dark, forever, if possible. I swear, the games they play.