Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board

Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Meh on December 26, 2011, 11:34:54 PM

Title: Therapists
Post by: Meh on December 26, 2011, 11:34:54 PM: Not sure yet if this should be a topic or if I should just write to myself. I'm feeling too fatigued to keep up a one sided deep conversation though (like I sometimes do). I feel like this could be one of my locked ramble posts but like I said I only have so many words right now. I'm on therapist # nine. Reminds me of the song: "Love potion number nine" maybe because if I had experienced enough love maybe I wouldn't need a therapist. Who knows really.

I don't have a point mainly just to express frustration with how much difficulty I find in getting help to make things different.
Or maybe better.

I just want to talk to a friend not a therapist. I don't like the way she documents every thing I say in such a clinical way that my sensitive guts are spilled out and recorded for any intern or somebody that I don't know to see. I feel exposed and I feel resistant to sharing with a therapist because they haven't proven themselves as a friend so why would I want to share?

I guess I'm struggling within myself not sure if I want to go back to the therapist again. My second appointment is coming up.

Bouncing box here. SAVe
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: Meh on December 26, 2011, 11:40:40 PM: Guess I just want to say to the therapist "It's been a long time since I have felt loved, I just want to feel loved"

I could say that to a friend.

But this dumb therapist wants to do all of that cognitive crap with me about "re framing my thoughts" or whatever.
Maybe I should just get a referral or give up I don't know.

I'm finding that other people seem to have less self awareness than I do....because they were never so F'ed up that they looked at their lives and selves and even their inner child and inner demons very much....ALSO they, YES THEY, THEM, the OKAY people don't seem to need this damned cognitive therapy feedback crap.....I thought cog. ther. feed...was old and didn't really work. I've read whole books and done stupid work books IT DOES NOT WORK!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not looking for advice really just expressing a frustration with how I have tried to get help but I don't even know what I'm looking for anymore, I do know that I don't have a lot of faith in this cognitive self-talk because positive self talk only gos so far.
Hey look a single pea!!! Wow that is better than a whole Turkey!!! As long as I think it then it's true??

The world is not all in my mind, I could be here and the world could be here even if I was in a coma.
I'm not really looking for advice I'm just feeling sad and hopeless tonight and therapists have been a dissapointment to me personally.
The therapists and people who meet me say that they get the impression that I'm motivated. Of course I am. But nothing is working!!!!!!

I don't even know what sort of therapy I should ask for. Not cognitive feedback therapy I guess. Does anybody do anything else besides Cognitive feedback stuff?

I think the dumb therapist is unrealistic and doesn't get me. She suggested that I go back to school at the nearest university. I feel like that is beyond me. Pretty much the social worker deterred be from such an idea. I don't really know what is possible but I know what seems unlikely. I'm confused and tired and lonely. I just needed to say that. Sometimes I just need a place to say how I'm really feeling, I don't need a lot of sympathy and stuff I just need to be real somewhere even if it is on a blog in interspaceland. It's part of me trying to have that voice.

I feel like I don't know who I am or who I want to be. Sort of feel like this life and this world is having it's way with me, like I don't even get to define myself. I didn't feel this way a couple of years ago. I hope its just a phase.
I don't know what saxophone players are saying but I'm sure they are speaking to my heart because music is the only thing that makes any sense to me and it doesn't have any sense. There is a limit to what words and thoughts can do.
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: Meh on December 27, 2011, 12:06:57 AM: You guys can write whatever the heck you wanna write or if you don't feel like it not. Just don't want to talk myself through this right now like I usually do. Don't want to figure anything out, I just want the other nice voice on the other side.

there is like some kind of rule that we cant fall in love or can't need love when we are too needy

on some level it makes sense in a controlled logical kind of world----but on a heart level it is like the dumbest thing ever
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: BonesMS on December 27, 2011, 07:41:03 AM: Morning, Boat.

I've been on both sides of this coin so I can feel your pain. At one of my former jobs, I was expected to provide cognitive behavioral therapy, WITHOUT ANY FORMAL TRAINING IN THE TECHNIQUE, to ALL clients! I vehemently disagreed with the "one size fits all" approach as each client is a unique individual...not a textbook case. I HATED it when previous therapists tried the "one size fits all" approach on me so I strongly felt it was NOT the appropriate thing to do to others. I'm aware there are several therapeutic approaches available to professionals. Unfortunately, not all professionals get it that Survivors of N's should NOT be forced into a "relationship" with the N who victimized them. I lost count of how many "professionals" quoted the same old tired line of: "But, she's your mother! She loves you!" (And this was before I finally understood Narcissistic Personality Disorder.)

I guess I can say, based on my own experience, that attempting to force a client to fit a certain "pigeon-hole" does NOT work! Reminds me of an old saying I heard somewhere, which I will paraphrase here as I'm not sure if I remember exactly...(it's still early and I'm half-asleep)....."Trying to teach a pig how to do something it's not designed to do doesn't work. It's an exercise in futility and it annoys the pig."

I want to make it clear.....we are NOT the same as pigs in the literal sense of the word but ignorant professionals are annoying. (As I wake up more, I may find a better concept and analogy to use later.)

Bones
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: Hopalong on December 27, 2011, 07:55:04 AM: A good therapist, I believe, could sit quietly and allow you to read aloud these three posts...one who could search to understand what works for you...I mean, that's really information that might help them.

For me it's not so much whether cognitive behavioral therapy works for me (I dunno, sometimes I don't even ask what "style" a T is into, because what matters most to me is their intelligence, compassion, depth of listening, and whether I sense they have a "spark" for witnessing/encouraging growth. I know for some other things, a type called dialectical behavioral therapy is good. Gestalt is the one where you talk to the chairs.

For me, hypnosis was the most life-changing and extraordinary, in terms of ME constructing where I wanted to go.

I wanted to tell you, Bones, that I think Therapist #9 would be an under-count for me. I have been to at least a dozen, likely. A few years ago I came to accept that, to stop judging/shaming myself for the fact that I am a person that will probably all of my life need to go through a cyclical relationship with a kind, wise, etc., T who will listen to me and help me learn to comfort and encourage myself. I'm not in a village, there's no shaman handy, and it's just a role in this culture that wears that hat. I give. Then, if I accept it as something I need and deserve and that there's zero shame about needing...it helps.

It's just the nature of who I am. Missing some filters, having certain mental quirks (like marked ADD) that make contemporary Western life a little challenging at times. And I need a level of interpersonal support that my current life does not include. If I stop judging myself, and think of a T just as I would a doctor -- no miracles but appropriate help -- then it's okay.

I understand this feeling:
Quote
I don't like the way she documents every thing I say in such a clinical way that my sensitive guts are spilled out and recorded for any intern or somebody that I don't know to see. I feel exposed and I feel resistant to sharing with a therapist because they haven't proven themselves as a friend
I feel that discomfort too. I sometimes challenge my T -- don't write that down -- or ask, what are you writing down? He doesn't write much though.

And he's always ready to laugh. He has a lightness of being that helps me find my own. Once I was crying gently and he said, well, I guess you've got a crappy job with a creepy boss and a daughter who hates you...and I said, "Think I have something to cry about?" and we both started laughing simultaneously...it was just acknowledging together the absurdity of being human, a pathos thing.

Anyway, dear ole Boat, I know you didn't ask for advice. Just wanted to ramble back at you that I understand a lot of the fears and frustration you're feeling on seeing a new T. When we need SO MUCH, it feels like SO MUCH rides on the T being a sort of Super-T, and then you get just another one with the same ole toolkit.

But different carpenters, same tools, can really help you build things...takes a little time.

One thought, if it's handy...is that every single time you go for therapy, no matter who "the T" is...you're actually the therapist.
xo
Hops
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: sKePTiKal on December 27, 2011, 09:50:07 AM: 'morning...

I'm not a night-owl, Boat... or I'd have been glad to chat with you last night. I've actually been feeling pretty needy myself, lately. But not as able to come right out & say it, like you do.

Hops makes a good point about how different carpenters use tools. And that really, you are your own therapist. LOL, I felt like I was paying my T to pretend to be my friend... to listen to me talk, to ask questions... but she never ever promised to do more than "help" me; "fixing" me just wasn't part of the deal. She also kept asking (in the beginning) about what I wanted - and ya know, I still don't walk around with any sense of an "I want..." list in my head! Me, want? What a foreign concept!! Now, need - that's a whole 'nother thing.

Except for the first couple sessions, she never took notes. She always wrote after the session. Of course, I showed up the first appt, with the introduction to Twiggy's story all written out for her; typed. Up to where my memory shut off. Occasionally, I did read her bits of my journal - as I came to realizations or had amazingly "telling" dreams... because I write more clearly than I speak. Verbally, I'm a babbling idiot. I'm better than I used to be - but when talking about personal things or things with a strong emotion connected to them - well, you know how cryptic I can be sometimes? Like I'm talking in code? Yeah. It takes someone like a T, to be able to understand what I'm trying to say - as I'm choking on the exact words.

But here's the deal - it wasn't any particular technique that helped me. It was simply the routine of showing up, talking, letting her suggest things and discussing them. It was feeling like I was connected to this other person and we were working together on a goal, that was the important part of the process. Yes, scientifically speaking CBT teaches us how to "think" differently. But again - that distracts from the important part of the process - which is, that over time one starts to FEEL differently. And after a couple years of this, "therapy" began to be a DIY project... except - and this was a huge exception for me - I needed the support I've received over the years, here on the board. It's like a was a wobbly kitten - I was up on my legs but had no idea how they worked. I needed tons of encouragement to counteract my learned patterns of putting myself down; feeling hopeless and helpless - even like I was a fake. (and gee... I'm still here - what does that tell ya?)

In some ways - therapy wasn't that much different than learning tai chi. There was a lot to keep my "monkey mind" busy - while the important stuff was happening at a completely different level. I needed my teacher's input; I needed and enjoyed the connection with my class mates. It was the practice, day in and day out, that was the important "work", too.

I wouldn't get too hung up on type of therapy; and if your T is doing something that bothers you - let him/her know, OK? I had to do a whole lot of different kind of healing, before CBT even worked for me... I just wasn't that integrated - me & my unconscious feral cat self - initially, for it to work. It even backfired a lot of the time - so we did different things. But every tiny little step added up to a whole journey.
Title: Hypnosis
Post by: Meh on December 27, 2011, 01:36:13 PM: Having a cup of coffee, reading bits and chunks, have country music on radio going it's Keith Urban "Someday Baby" oh and Jason Aldean. Just noticed that some new person moved around all the stuff in the fridge and squished all my space out but what's new--Feh.

Thinking about the hypnosis Hops. I never knew that you had that done. Couple of evenings ago I listened to a radio broadcast about hypnosis, I guess I don't really understand it and is scares me a little bit like surgery scares people.

I hate love songs, isn't this some kind of torture and brainwashing for those of us who are the "others".

Today I'm inbetween considering a late night knitting project or doing something wreckless. I wanna run away. There is really nothing to run away from besides social workers and therapists that say the same ol same ol...and no where to run to just an unfamiliar landscape that I can momentarily be sentimental and excited about. I ask myself again "Who the h@ll am I?"
Maybe I should take that question to the therapist.
Title: Therapy I don't get it
Post by: Meh on December 27, 2011, 02:14:31 PM: Okay, what is the point of therapy. If we have a problem or are struggling we are told to "go see a therapist". But the point of therapy is not to fix us or the problem?

Supposed to be some kind of self awareness so we can make different decisions or some junkola like that in response to our problems.

No amount of therapy is going to make me more "lovable". I will just be better able to spout out some kind of psycho babble.

Therapist number nine pointed out that I said that I had a hard time in the past articulating myself and that she thought I was doing a pretty good job at articulating now (I think she is trying to point out that previous therapy WAS beneficial to me). But that isn't due to the previous 8 therapists it's due to my past work where I worked with people who had PhD's, its due to a communication class I took and it's also due to my rambling on this board..because eventually I figure out something about myself.
Title: "Conversation"
Post by: Meh on December 27, 2011, 02:18:11 PM: Heya Bones and Hops and Phoenix, Thanks for the conversation. I read what you wrote, takes me a long time to digest it all.

It felt affirming to know that others out there have frustrations and uncertainty with the therapeutic process also. And also knowing that we go into therapists very raw and sensitive- Phoenix.

Bones, Thank you for pointing out the--one size does not fit all----piece. One size fits all approaches almost demonstrates a lack of thoughtfulness in some ways.

Also Hops the way you point out the expectations for a SUPER Therapist to the rescue....its so true.
Title: All about me
Post by: Meh on December 27, 2011, 03:00:36 PM: When I respond to myself 4 times I guess it's "all about me in my world" self absorbed. But I need to say something else and I can't make my boxes bigger, one big box is not working because of the jumping screen thing.

I'm supposed to string together bad low paying temporary jobs in lieu of a career. I'm also supposed to live in a low-income housing project with weirdo men in lieu of some place I actually want to be. I'm just supposed to adapt. This is part of the reason why I don't feel like I know who I am anymore. People are telling me to just do and just be what I don't want to be...a welfare loser.

There was more than one thing going on when I lost my stable good paying job and ended up here and one of the things was a frustration with my own loneliness and autonomy and pointlessness of not being a point in a constellation. Even if I have a career which is nice doesn't mean that I feel like I belong to somebody and somewhere. I don't feel like I belong in church when I go (And I have been going) or when I volunteer I don't completely feel like that is my place. Where and when am I going to belong I ask myself. In the past I never allowed myself to even say these feelings. They were too personal, being to prideful to just say this stuff. I think I need to admit it to myself though, not admitting it to myself if part of the barrier to having it probably. I want to be excited about something in the future. Something to look forward to, I don't SEE that and it's true I'm not motivated. Those A-hole social workers say I'm supposed to act like I'm motivated still. I was but I'm not anymore. I'm pissed and tired of the conversation with the housing person I don't know what to say to her anymore. I don't like her. Sometimes she puts out this energy like I'm a bad child. I will just take a high road, just tell her that I'm talking to a therapist about all of it. ---pshhh aww

These stupid social workers and therapists, I just need to get out of this trap. Its all intrusive, people who cant help and dont care as long as they get their paycheck, but im supposed to play along and report to them like a little kid telling their teacher "yes mam I did my homework"...just like you told me to.
Title: Re: "Conversation"
Post by: BonesMS on December 28, 2011, 06:21:35 AM: Quote from: Boat that Rocks on December 27, 2011, 02:18:11 PM
Heya Bones and Hops and Phoenix, Thanks for the conversation. I read what you wrote, takes me a long time to digest it all.

It felt affirming to know that others out there have frustrations and uncertainty with the therapeutic process also. And also knowing that we go into therapists very raw and sensitive- Phoenix.

Bones, Thank you for pointing out the--one size does not fit all----piece. One size fits all approaches almost demonstrates a lack of thoughtfulness in some ways.

Also Hops the way you point out the expectations for a SUPER Therapist to the rescue....its so true.

You're welcome, Boat. I think that is what is frustrating....getting the sense that the therapist is not being thoughtful. It feels as if they are not really listening.

Bones
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: sKePTiKal on December 28, 2011, 07:00:58 AM: Hi Boat - having one of those nights when I don't sleep well. My 4-legged kat - my Target parking lot feral rescue kitty - is running laps; dogs' been up & out; hubs is trying to put himself back to sleep... I've already made the 2nd pot of coffee. No... anxiety isn't the reason, this time.

I can relate to what you said about being a point in a constellation; belonging... being part of something. 2 1/2 yrs ago, I left my tech-team job and this early am my thoughts were of wondering what projects they were up to. I don't miss my N-boss or the dysfunctional institution I worked at. I also don't know what I want to be when I grow up - "who" I am - because I don't feel like have a context,- a landscape, background of life that I fit into, except perhaps that I can always find something to post here! We moved here, two years ago now - and still aren't finished moving; there is still furniture and garage stuff at the old house. It feels like an anchor we're dragging around... holding us back. To hubs, it's a connection he's still not ready to let go - it's where he has "context" in his life. I've always been comfortable being a "gypsy" and moving around; travelling - tho' that's physically taxing on me these days.

Yes, I have a "sewing room" now and fabric and patterns; I haven't unpacked much of that yet. Yes, I have art supplies and brand-new brushes and pencils in every color imaginable... paper that's 25 yrs old (it's rag, so it's still good). I've just finished loading graphics software on the new 'puter; it's 2-3 versions old already; hope it's compatible! But I have no overwhelming desire to make anything of any consequence... and I still won't commit myself to defining myself as an "artist" or whatever... because of all the extra, not-necessarily-true crap that people want to believe belongs with that word/label. I resent people imposing their ideas of what an artist is/isn't on me and expecting me to live up to that idea... and being disappointed or shocked when I don't. I don't like being limited by preconceived ideas... or forced into roles that just aren't me.

But part of what's got me up in the dark, this morning... is this energy to "do something"... get involved in something that I care about. I'm starting to bounce off the walls, literally & figuratively. Because I know I can't really "think" my way to what I sense it is, that I'm craving. All the theories in the world are useless - just talking about it doesn't bake the bread, ya know? Problem is, no one else can tell me how to get there, either. I can't walk down the street and into a store and just buy whatever it is I'm craving... because a.) I don't know what it is or b.) I do this thing where I can see what I want... but it doesn't exist... because I have to make it; no one else has done that, in just that way. This is the time of the morning - before the sun comes up - when I did my best work. Creative tension? Perhaps; it doesn't feel totally aimless.

It's possible that you're in kinda the same situation... and what you're in the process of creating is yourself... the part that's not subject to those limiting definitions. Those normal, anthropo-social-descriptive characteristic words that tell other people about you, that has all their associations glue-sticked onto the words. And ya know, I think it's OK that this is what you're doing right now. I mean, why not? Some people just never get to this stage, I don't think. Some people get there kinda automatically, without any deliberation or consciousness - by accident, I kinda think. There is something different, even quite special about people who consciously struggle with this, make their choices intentionally, who spend the time and invest the energy to create their "self". Polishing, sanding, making the self all shiny, coherent, arranging things "just so"... to suit yourself.

That's another one of those important things - below the surface of awareness - that I think therapy helps some of us do. I sure didn't notice it while I was in the process, actively. But, looking back I think my T guided me to my self - introduced me to her. Helped me get to know her, appreciate and respect her, love her for the wacky, idiosyncratic, weirdo that she is. Once my "self" and I were on the same side, working together... we started working on that other self that people see... all that external stuff, how I relate and communicate with other people, what I do with my time... it's like a deep-down, total consciousness "make over" from the inside out... and it's still changing and that's a good thing.

I think you already know yourself... but now it's a little harder (and there are no hard/fast rules about how to do this) to create that relationship with yourself. I can see why it bugs you (can't find where you said this - maybe it was just the echo in my own mind) that you're expected to adapt to the expectations of "the world" and pretend to be what you're not. I can hear you saying just under the words - under your breath? - that finding that exact "who you are" or creating her - is way more important to you than where you live, or your paycheck.

I would agree with you, 100% - inconvenient and frustrating as the daily realities are and how "over it" you are. Sounds like a bit of creative tension, in your world too. So, take a deep breath... try to bear with the T who doesn't know what you know - about you... and maybe wonder a little bit, if instead of going out and "finding" that belonging and "normal life"... you need to look for inside and design it and build it there first. Dream it! ;)
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: river on December 28, 2011, 07:02:48 AM: Boat, From my own long, painful and destructive experiences with Ts, I would say, (tho you said not looking for advice~~~~ but can hardly help myself)....... so what would I tell myself?
speaking to me of the past from me of the present I'd say:
......... dont get trapped, your instincts are right, these people dont get it, protect, preserve yourself, keep reading, keep searching, dont give up, try 5,762 therapists, courses, individuals, if thats what it takes, till you find what you need. but dont give up, trust you knowing and follow it, investigate it. Ultimately, if all else fails, give what you need to recieve, ~ but not in a co-dependent way. Whatever make a rule, never give precious personal information away when its 'pearls before swine', its like haemorrhaging your soul.

.......... sorry if that sounds meladramatic, I hate to see tender, real self squandered to crude 'professional hands'. Im also currently investigating 'the other side of the desk', and deep inside, I cringe inwardly a thousand times when I see or more accurately feel what is being taught.

............ this is a wild ramble, dont have much time these days, but take what you like, leave the rest....

river
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: Meh on December 28, 2011, 01:04:22 PM: All the theories in the world are useless - just talking about it doesn't bake the bread, ya know?

:o :o :o :o :o 8) 8) 8) 8)

No talking about it doesn't bake the bread but it's the start of becoming motivated to get the flour and yeast out of the closet. Keep rambling it's sure to lead somewhere. That is what a ramble is right, a long, slow, seemingly pointless walk to an unknown destination.

"I can hear you saying just under the words - under your breath? - that finding that exact "who you are" or creating her - is way more important to you than where you live, or your paycheck. " ---THANKYOU for this reflection.

Heya! Whacha gonna make in that sewing room? Quilts/clothes/baby dresses???????

"Those normal, anthropo-social-descriptive characteristic words that tell other people about you, that has all their associations glue-sticked onto the words." Ha HAHA You make me laugh!!!!

Yeah, I have used some intense words to describe myself I didn't have to be so harsh, could have smoothed things out a little bit but I have a propensity towards trying out the harsh and scaring people away...wanted to scare him back a little not 100% away but hey one test other peoples strength of character as well. 8)
Title: Re: River
Post by: Meh on December 28, 2011, 01:09:04 PM: Hi, River, I like the wild rambles. There is something intuitive in there I think. The comment about pearls before swine. I've not heard that saying before. :)
Title: Re: "Conversation"
Post by: Meh on December 28, 2011, 01:12:08 PM: Quote from: BonesMS on December 28, 2011, 06:21:35 AM
You're welcome, Boat. I think that is what is frustrating....getting the sense that the therapist is not being thoughtful. It feels as if they are not really listening.

Bones

Yeah, one doesnt listen with just the ears or through our mental filters of our own agendas. One hears without a real agenda or time schedule. Maybe one does hear through the heart when one is really listening but hey that can't happen all the time out there in this big world. But it's nice to remember.
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: Meh on December 28, 2011, 01:36:54 PM: Could practically bite chunks and shake my head back and forth with the pages in my mouth, out of the book on dating but I'm going to read it anyways. Just in case.

Will try therapist at least one more time just in case.
Listen to music every moment I can and flip it to anybody that says I'm frivolous
I've always felt a slight homeness amongst artists types, musicians I could just crawl into their instrument cases LOVE music LOVE IT
Musicians are like the luckiest people ever

Part of me says about the therapy stuff is that:
"I don't care how much I like or love or know myself, I just want somebody else to LOVE me".
I want to cheat on myself with somebody else for once.
May have to tell some lies to myself in order to do this. Honestly, I have to ask myself if there isnt a NEED to REBEL against myself.

I ask myself am I having important failures or just plain old failures that are a waste of lifetime energy.
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: sKePTiKal on December 28, 2011, 05:07:49 PM: The sewing room: talk about an aimless walk or ramble....

I CAN make: clothes - tailored, lined, fitted... not quite "couture"... but the bridesmaids dresses I made still impress me, in the pictures. I make toys, kids clothes - would LOVE to have a granddaughter (even niece) to make "heirloom" dresses for... lots of hand work... lace, etc. I can make utilitarian things: bags, curtains, cushions. upholstery...

CAN...

but don't.

Then again - a lot of "who I am" is wrapped up in making things.... pick a medium... I'm thinking about taking a welding class, just to play with the tools and make something out of steel. I make things - period. Maker. Been making candy stuff in my kitchen; first stuff I've "made" in a couple of years. Cooking is Making. Becoming... oneself... is "making".
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: sKePTiKal on December 28, 2011, 05:46:41 PM: Boat: there's nothing wrong or screwy with you.

This where your past Ts have failed you. You are just fine... the "problem" - if we have to have one - is that you don't feel that way. I know. I don't either. But when I finally get pissed and clear all the crap away... that's what's left: nothing really wrong with me (considering). We've had a lot o' crap in our past... we survived... we're even surprisingly intact... we don't have to feel guilty or embarrassed about it. It WAS what it was. It isn't NOW.

I think - though what I think should be questioned - I think, you're just on the edge of finally "flying" out of your abusively defined "comfort zone". It may help to have that impartial third party to talk it through with... as you plan, negotiate, dream and dare to break out to [what?]... but it's still going to be you calling ALL the shots - when, what, why, how, and in what form...

in the end, it all comes down to you... and that oughta maybe might feel reassuring? After all: it was you that finally saw the rot and decay at the heart of FOO right? How dangerous it was for you... and got you OUT. Pronto. You saved yourself.

YAAAAAYYYY!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: river on December 28, 2011, 08:44:49 PM: Quote
I want to cheat on myself with somebody else for once.

............ love that, its funny. You're right in a way. All the blurb out there that says 'love yourself' when we're designed to love and be loved by another. I think this 'love yourself' takes some translating into reality to make it realistic.
r.
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: Meh on December 29, 2011, 06:12:30 PM: Can I talk to my therapist about dating?
Its a normal therapy topic isnt it?

I feel so ashamed in bringing it up with a therapist, they are clinical and not my friend and they don't know me. Maybe I will just ask her not to record anything I say about that stuff that would make me feel better. I have some kind of irrational fear that somebody is going to see my mental health file and they are going to say "Look how sad and pathetic this patient is, Nobody loves her"[/b]To me saying to my therapist "I want to be loved, I think I want to date even though I have all this stuff going on"--well it feels really taboo to me.

I feel like I'm going to be exposed as an unloved loser!!!!

Or that the therapist is going to try to make me accept with "reframing my thoughts" that I am not an unloved loser.
But the fact still remains that I am alone and lonely and by myself and I don't want to be.
Maybe the therapist herself isnt even in a happy relationship.
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: Meh on December 29, 2011, 06:18:39 PM: I'm tired, I don't want the therapy experience that is like doing exercises and workbooks and a teacher telling children to perform a task or to play at something. I just want things to get better. I just want to beg her.."help me how do I make it better"
Okay I'm going for a walk now because I'm having an emotional out pouring at the moment.
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: Hopalong on December 29, 2011, 09:13:16 PM: Aha. I think I get it. (God, I'm slow.) And I don't blame you.

You
have
INHERENT
worth
and
dignity

HUGE dignity. That's what is good for you in therapy.
You bring your dignity in the room with you. Along with your fragile feelings. Any damn topic you like.
If you want to talk about love and dating, this is not "forbidden" because you're homeless now.
If a T forbids you to discuss anything non-economic, wrong T.

You are not allowed to believe your dignity is lost. (Umm, that would be me, being bossy, there...).
Believing that it is lost is a current-world, current-life, current-circumstances confusion. Understandable.
But not true.
Your true dignity and worth are invisible and do not cost any money and cannot be purchased with education, social status, or professional degree. They cannot be demeaned by the temporary or permanent lack of any of those things.

There is noone else who can give them to you; you came that way.
You might forget they are real sometimes but that doesn't change the facts.

You are in NO way inferior to or subject to any therapist. They may want to "steer" you to solutions for your life circumstances (this could be uncomfortable but still a sign of caring) but they need to also recognize your wholeness. As a whole being, you've also got love on your mind right now.

Their motives, education and training should, hopefully, help most of them to be actually helpful to most of you most of the time.
They are not superhuman nor super-authoritative.
You can find good Ts in humble clinics and such.

NEEDING human help and reassurance does not have anything to do with your dignity and worth.

You
have
INHERENT
worth
and
dignity

...And this would be true if you peed on a T's couch, cried until you were purple, disagreed, felt pathetic, felt confused, agreed with them or disagreed with them, figured out you are smarter than them, or farted.

Receive what's helpful...maybe just one small nugget in a conversation.

You have amazing, immense capacity. I truly believe this. I'm sorry it's all so slow.

love,
Hops
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: Meh on December 29, 2011, 11:25:37 PM: Hops, thanks that is kind and generous of you. Thanks for the perspective. I went for a walk in the dark damp rain by the water and looked at the lights on the other side of the shore through the fog, had some food, I feel better.

----------

Phoenix what do you want to weld?? big things or little things?? Like jewelry things or skyscraper things?
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: river on January 01, 2012, 12:02:27 PM: Quote from: Boat that Rocks on December 29, 2011, 11:25:37 PM
Hops, thanks that is kind and generous of you. Thanks for the perspective. I went for a walk in the dark damp rain by the water and looked at the lights on the other side of the shore through the fog, had some food, I feel better.

----------

Phoenix what do you want to weld?? big things or little things?? Like jewelry things or skyscraper things?

I live in a place like that, maybe you're my nieghbour! : )
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: Hopalong on January 01, 2012, 03:21:41 PM: You find so much comfort in beauty, and in communing with the real and natural world, Boat...

Maybe part of the answer is if you would sit with the idea of looking at yourself and see the same kind of beauty.

Somebody who has the same ability to see, can look at you and see something no less beautiful, mysterious, worthy of contemplation.

But the best thing is going to be when you see yourself with the same love and wonder that you often give the world.
Then once you get that (compassion), it gets a whole lot easier to put up with others.

(I don't mean treacly love. I just mean to resonate and respond as you do to beauty, that's half the skill one needs to resonate and respond to one's own self with love. Not sentimental goo, I mean the part of you that's like a cello string...)

Ramblingly, but wishing you much hope and newness in your new year,

Hops
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: sKePTiKal on January 02, 2012, 09:10:02 AM: BIG things... large scale appeals to me, Boat. I don't know why... maybe I'm tired of trying to piece together clues out of tiny details for too long... like long sky horizons... the ocean... wide open prairies and mountains that only look close, but will take days to reach.

Breathing room.
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: Meh on January 09, 2012, 05:51:51 PM: Thought I would google "How to get the most out of therapy" Because as always I over think a lot of stuff...but after so many therapy attemps I'm wondering what is the point of therapy anyways? Isn't the goal of therapy clear...

For example if someone is going through divorce the point is to ease the emotional trauma and facilitate healthy communication.
If someone has substance abuse issues the goal is to constructively guide the patient towards reducing the dependence on those substances.
If a person has an eating disorder then maybe the therapy includes oh I don't know how they treat these. Maybe with love.

If a person has a personal health issue like some kind of serious chronic condition...the therapy focuses on baby steps related to quality of life....maybe there is a reduction of what the person can do but the person is still encouraged to do fullfilling activities.

What is my point? That every problem should have some kind obvious goal and path...and maybe there its flexible creative and unique but the problem and solution are within a range of obvious.

SAVE bouncing screen box thing
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: Meh on January 09, 2012, 06:05:10 PM: So I have stated some of my goals very clearly to the therapist but I just get a vague reflection back from her as if she is confused.

I told her my goals are to get to a healthier, safer and more productive place in my life. And to get therapy related to my father's situation because I feel overwhelmed with that.

In other words I don't feel as healthy as I once did, I don't feel safe, I feel like I'm squandering my life away going nowhere stuck in the charity welfare system. Sometimes I think there is no solution or if there is its very extreme and one can only do it oneself with no real help or support.

What is not clear about that?....this is why I don't believe in therapy. I liked all the handouts they gave me about grief because I read things that I needed to know but the therapy itself...is bothering. Plus this is a community thing I don't have the freedom to shop for any therapist in town. I prefer a private therapist because it's in a less clinical setting and I have chosen them and it feels a little bit more personal.

http://www.drnadig.com/therapy.htm
Venting here.
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: Meh on January 09, 2012, 06:17:53 PM: I often leave therapy feeling confused. I'm noticing this.

I don't like it, I want to be focused or motivated or excited or to feel understood, or to feel like I don't have to be overwhelmed with grief. Want to feel like solutions are within my grasp. Want to feel like I have something to look forward to that is why I go to therapy.

I do not go to therapy to feel confused. And if I feel confused then maybe there is something about what the therapist is doing that is NOT working for me???

Maybe I will go back one more time and explain to her that I feel confused and that I would like referrals to private therapists.

The problem is I don't have a strong framework or structure in my life. It's like the therapist wants me to use some sort of framework and structure that is indwelling? My own internal compass is broken. The therapist can keep on telling me "read your compass" "read your compass"......It's bothering me. This is NOT helping.
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: BonesMS on January 10, 2012, 06:32:17 AM: Quote from: Boat that Rocks on January 09, 2012, 06:17:53 PM
I often leave therapy feeling confused. I'm noticing this.

I don't like it, I want to be focused or motivated or excited or to feel understood, or to feel like I don't have to be overwhelmed with grief. Want to feel like solutions are within my grasp. Want to feel like I have something to look forward to that is why I go to therapy.

I do not go to therapy to feel confused. And if I feel confused then maybe there is something about what the therapist is doing that is NOT working for me???

Maybe I will go back one more time and explain to her that I feel confused and that I would like referrals to private therapists.

The problem is I don't have a strong framework or structure in my life. It's like the therapist wants me to use some sort of framework and structure that is indwelling? My own internal compass is broken. The therapist can keep on telling me "read your compass" "read your compass"......It's bothering me. This is NOT helping.

In other words, we need to have therapists HEAR us instead of trying to force us into their "pigeon holes" for their comfort.

Bones
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: Hopalong on January 10, 2012, 08:08:07 AM: I think it's great you've identified that you feel confused.

Maybe that's something to "sit with" in the company of the T; ask her/him to help you work with this feeling and see what may be beneath it.

Instead of asking them to "turn off" the feeling of confusion, because you want to have a different feeling.

Probably, starting where you are...including feeling the feeling you are having...is how you're ultimately going to find the gate.

Confusion's uncomfortable and scary, particularly when you're motivated to change and worried whether you can. Just take a feeling out of the bag that's on your lap in that moment and name it, give it a chance to teach you....

It's not so much the person (T) who will teach you, but the feelings you examine in the safe company of this person. Who, we hope, will now and then have a comment or suggestion that really is helpful. If s/he goes too fast, say so...

xo
Hops
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: sKePTiKal on January 10, 2012, 09:46:12 AM: I hear ya Boat!

My evil twin suggests that you do tell the therapist that you're feeling more confused, because if you had an inner compass - you'd already be listening to it and acting on those suggestions... instead of going to therapy! What kind of crap is an inner compass, anyway? Has he/she been watching too many Jack Sparrow movies? What in the world does he/she mean by "inner compass"???? Words and meanings were extremely important to me, in therapy -- and even now, I keep finding ones that meant one thing "back then"... that really don't mean that, in the dictionary or in reality.

That said - I also left many a session feeling worse than I walked in; confused sometimes - mostly scared out of my imitation tough girl panties. Some of the work I did, I can only describe as having to enter, travel through to the exit, some really awful places... and at my age, it was pretty clear I wasn't able to go there and survive, by myself. The purpose of the therapy - and the therapist - was to hold my hand while I did walk through - or carefully navigate a large boat that needed plenty of water through the shoals and sandbars of the Graveyard of the Atlantic; Blackbeard didn't make it outta here. My T was my navigator; first mate too... but I was at the helm, the captain... making those directional decisions... and it seemed like my first chance to "command" my own ship so of course, I didn't want to crash into the rocks or get taken out by a kraken... it was my first chance in life to BE my own compass and decide which direction was my "mission"...

So I'm gonna try to guess what is meant by "inner compass"... it's a direction-finder, right? And "inner" implies it's something within you that has a real attraction to, a strong preference or orientation to... a specific direction... or that you know exactly where you want to go... where you want to end up.

SOME of us don't really have one - at least, we haven't been introduced to it or know it well. Or it's "broken"... or the hand that was watching it and calling out headings got thrown overboard last week... or we're in a place where "magnetic north" is disrupted and the ole' reliable compass is spinning around, just as confused as the rest of our self is. Sounds like a really bad spot to be in - dangerous and uncomfortable and each second is unpredictable - even as you realize the ship isn't really going anywhere except in circles. Eventually, you'll need to resupply the ship.

So, if your "navigator" is experienced - you navigate by the stars, the sun, and "dead reckoning" -- landmarks, as you hug the relative safety and real dangers of the coast. If you're already out to sea... follow the birds... the ones that have to nest on land... sit at anchor long enough to automatically "feel" east & west as the sun comes up & goes down and then you'll know north & south too --- even when your compass isn't working.

ALL a compass can do, is tell you where the cardinal directions are located. It can't decide which direction to go in... it won't speak to you, the secrets of your heart (except in Jack Sparrow movies)... and the compass only "gets you where you want to go", if you know where you're going in the first place... and also, it helps a lot to know where ARE at the moment, too. Because knowing which ocean you're in makes a world of difference, if you can't see land, doesn't it? The "captain" decides... chooses the heading, the speed, which sails... and hopefully, the crew agrees with the captain and cooperates.

Anyway, if the ship is sinking or you're afraid you're going to be lost forever... this particular analogy or metaphor gets irritating. Plainly speaking, there is always an "inner voice" or "inner self" that sometimes - not always - knows the answers, the direction to go in... sometimes it's smarter than our normal self; sometimes NOT. That kinda depends on who and what type of who, that inner self is... sometimes, it's an inner child... sometimes it's an inner "mother"... the kind we WISHED we had, and just positively KNOW exists - even if ours didn't know the dictionary meaning of the word.

One of the goals of therapy, is to make sure that your day-to-day self and that inner self are playing nice together; cooperating - there's no mutiny... someone IS watching and calling out the compass headings as one makes way. And, in my experience at least, I felt a whole lot worse - before I felt better. Like I had to have a major bone rebroken and reset properly to walk. (Peglegs are kinda out of fashion these days... except for the hi-tech substitutes - those are kinda cool)

It occurred to me, reading what you said about what you wanted:

Maybe you want more than a navigator on your "crew"... or maybe the therapist is only helpful for the dad issue, right now. It sounds to me... that one of the things you want (and I'm getting used to being wrong - no harm in telling me, either!) is a good friend... or a mom-friend... to help you find the realistic, practical hope (not the "ideal" ones) that exists where you are right at the moment, to help you FEEL better about what you can do, right now, to change the circumstances of your life. Encouragement, motivation, and ideas... another brain with differences from yours... compatible with yours, tho... to help you decide and organize a plan - the "how to" get the compass working again... and know where you want your travels to take you: specifically. That might take yet another crew member, to deal with those practical details... maybe a life coach?

That can be difficult for all of us, at different times. You know that thread "Things Mama never told us"? Well, one of the things I find I never learned... was my own way of making decisions: setting a goal, committing to it, laying out that plan... and going through it. And that was partly because I had no IDEA what I wanted... or even IF I wanted anything. My inner self had been keeping all that extremely "need to know" and top secret. Sure, I could do this at work... and was good at it**. But for myself and my life? It didn't exist in the realm of possibility. So, at 55.... I'm finally working out how to apply what I know from work, to myself.

** Why was it easier to do at work? Because someone else decided the goal; set the agenda... just like my over-controlling Nmom did with my "me"... it's the height of irony for me, as I'm reading & digesting this book on willpower & self-control to realize that it's not self-control, determination or perseverance that I lack... no, growing up in a wack FOO helps one gain black-belt mastery of those techniques... but one doesn't gain any experience at all in the choosing or deciding area. And I can be overwhelmed by more than 3 choices, easily... and then I just "don't choose"... because at that point, I just don't have the energy to be able to tell which one I want. I give up... and let the winds blow my boat around where ever... even if it crashes apart and sinks.

Maybe there's something in this ramble that'll give you some ideas, Boat. Just turn up your music and drown out what doesn't apply.
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: Hopalong on January 10, 2012, 07:46:51 PM: Boat, I wanted to add that I do understand why you may have felt some despair at being assigned a fresh-out-of-school therapist.

If it continues to not be helpful to meet with this T, can you request an older person with more experience?

It is not a "bad" thing to want to talk things over with someone who's lived longer, and you can ask in a way that doesn't criticize the current one.

Good health professionals are not offended by a request for a second opinion, etc. Our family once transferred from one doc to another in the very same office (the first one actually being our next-door neighbor) and nobody sulked.

Hops
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: Meh on February 01, 2012, 08:12:10 PM: Today, when I went in to see the female therapist that I have been going to, I guess maybe this is the 3 or 4th time. Pretty much I sort of argued with her and she kind of engaged into the argument which probably wasn't a great thing.

She had me fill out paper work, one of those forms where I rate my own "depression"/"anxiety". She looked at the form and she was pointing out that I'm somewhat (depressed). I took exception to this term because I told her the very first appointment and I'm sure she has forgotten by now that I just don't believe in depression like it's promoted in pop culture. Its a meaningless catchall term for anybody who is down. So I understand they want to monitor somebody's progress and see if the person improves BUT I hate the term.

I was about ready to get up and walk out of her office mid session but I didn't. We ended up setting up another appointment but discussed the possibility of referral, I've been trying to get her to tell me more about WHO is available so I can have some say in who sees me. I still don't get how many therapists are in there network of people, I don't think its too many but previously they made it sound as if there are people in the community. I'm burnt out on everything even therapy. Maybe therapy just doesn't work for me.
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: Meh on February 01, 2012, 08:34:03 PM: When did depression even become part of people's common vocab I wonder? Seems like few generations ago it would just be considered some kind of hardship/missfortune etc... not it's own problem. I think its BS. and I blame it on the dumb drug companies for brainwashing everybody. I've already been through all this on this board before was all dramatically communicated with me feeling like I wanted to vomit up a lot of anti-depressants all over the F'ing place. BECAUSE those therapists never even helped me to identify any real problems that caused the down-ness. It could have helped me if I had identified some of my issues earlier and that may have occured if a lazy therapist didn't just say after the first sesssion...take some pills!

I just told the therapist that very bluntly "I'm not depressed....I'M discouraged" I had to say it to her twice because she didn't even hear me the first time I said it because she was reacting to me and not even listening. I'm clear very clear. I may not know what I need, or what the solution is but I'm pretty clear about my feelings.

It's absolutely the truth that I believe that I am in fact discouraged but I refuse to take on the term and label of depressed any
longer. I just don't even agree with her methodology.

It's kind of idiotic, she asked me "if there are things that I used to do that I enjoyed that I'm not doing any longer". UH, YEAH DUH!
Hike, bike, snowshoe, paint, go to classes, get pay checks. COME ON!!!!

It's scripted and formulaic, this therapy and its in a low income community health clinic so of course I'm not going to get any real help there I would have to pay for an independent therapist probably. I AM! I don't trust her and she doesnt get it.
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: Meh on February 01, 2012, 08:42:07 PM: I have that bouncing screen thing going on here.

She said that she just wanted to reflect back to me that I'm closed off and basically I'm resistant and difficult. But I have the right to tell her that I can't stand the term depression. Anyways she then said that she thought we were getting hung up on the terminology. Terminology is important because there is a difference between telling somebody they are depressed compared to what I would say about myself: DISCOURAGED.

They lead to different paths. Depressed = more therapy, pills, something intrinsically wrong with patient (these things are not positive)

Discouraged = Needs A life change that is encouraging
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: Hopalong on February 01, 2012, 11:15:37 PM: I agree with you Boat. I love the fire in you to name your own truth.

I wonder if you could be both depressed and discouraged?

I'm glad you told her twice.

Still, she is not the enemy and it's better to be arguing a bit with a well-intentioned at least decent humdrum therapist than not be talking to anybody at ALL... Try to look for whatever small ways she DOES hear you. See if some more conversations over time with her begin to get a little easier. See if you can imagine her as an ally, rather than someone you have to obey. And see if some small good moments or small helpful realizations might come out of it anyway, despite the built-in limitations. See if some of those are enough to still feel you're moving forward (and while you seek out supplemental support of all sorts...don't forget all those types of free groups...)

I wish you could also find the finest shrink in town and work out a barter. You garden for a couple hours in exchange for one therapy appt. Go to office after office with a flyer and hang around until you can introduce yourself to the shrink, one at a time, hand them your flyer, look 'em in the eye and say, "I would really appreciate if you would respond to this offer because I really need skilled therapy now. And I am a very good gardener." Meet 10 of them, one will say yes.
I love your clarity about your feelings. I was telling a friend tonight about the stream of labels and acronymns I've had in my life: anxiety disorder, panic attacks, clinical depression, and now ADD. And I was laughing and saying, you know, I could care less. Bring them on! 100 years from now I'd be wearing the XYZ label or maybe the antidisestablishmentarianismissionessioniciety label. I truly don't care! I do not feel bad about myself for being what I am! It's about as relevant to my worth and value as the shape of my nose.

And human language is always approximate and mental health diagnoses and poet's descriptions are too. It's just language. All that matters is loving yourself.

I think you are doing that. Step by step. It's all steps.

I am sorry you're discouraged Boat but fwiw, I really do sense some big digging going on in you, some earth moving.

There is hope. Remember how many gardens start with what looks like an impossibly stony field.

love to you,
Hops
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: Meh on February 01, 2012, 11:51:43 PM: I know you are trying to help Hops but...

Nope, I'm not going to beg for therapy. Therapy just has limitations. Some people just have messed up lives and they don't excel beyond it. I just come here to vent not because I think the solution is here.

No I'm not both depressed and discouraged. Some guys marketed this whole idea to the extreme- the ones all sitting around in their business office wanting to sell Prozac to as many people as they could. I worked in health care.
Pharmacy = drug dealers run by big business.

monkeys used in medical experiments who have had their bodies messed up and have been in captivity for too long, well they are diagnosed with depression. There was nothing wrong with those monkeys to start with there was never a chemical imbalance in their brain when they were normal before the experiments. The title of depression infers that there is a defect in a person's brain chemistry or some crap like that. Unless the worlds foremost expert does a scan on my brain and does a urine test or whatever they do these days...IM not buying it. Its the wimp out explanation and there is no concrete evidence. Sorry but I need evidence at this point in my life before I'm going to just fall into a trap of believing somebody just because. People who are depressed they don't try to restore back to a better state. They are forever depressed, upping the dosage on their pills and crap. FORGET IT!

Yep, the therapist confirmed that it was ridiculous that my mother would suggest to me that I should become a nun as a solution.
That felt sort of good. Somebody else confirming that my mother is monstrously crazy.

I want to erase any damage, I do want to roll back time and make up for everything that seems to cause grief just from feeling how deeply (I missed out).

I should be married, I should have a career, I should have a life. If I did maybe I wouldn't ever write on this board at all, maybe I wouldn't answer my mothers phone calls at all there would be no reason to, I would have a version of family that didn't include her.

Somehow its really not about my mother at all anymore because however she did screw me up, well the damage is done. It just doesn't help that she tells me I should join a convent. She is just retarded. Excuse the lang. I think she got it from a story about a great grandparent who was in an orphanage and then became a nun because that was common back then...

But then that would mean she is likening herself to an orphanage and me an orphan.

Heck if this was just a few decades ago somebody would be trying to give me a lobotomy.
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: sKePTiKal on February 02, 2012, 07:33:18 AM: Hey... thought I'd let you know I more than kinda related to this:

Quote
She said that she just wanted to reflect back to me that I'm closed off and basically I'm resistant and difficult.

This was one my own "symptoms" and you're absolutely right: there is a REAL reason for it. And yep; it sure 'nuff does LOOK LIKE depression on the surface - but it sure as hell isn't. But what's a T to do? When faced with a "no win" situation in a client, who's been facing it on their own long enough to want help... but doesn't know how to do what the T is trained to expect from a patient??

No one's fault, really. And not totally an impossible situation, either. And I guess you can butt heads, until someone "gives"... and that's one way to get past this. (But, a brand-new T might not have the experience or cohones to stand her ground against you; you've had a lot more practice being you the way you are - chuckle!) Or ... and this might be something to try... try writing to your T. I'm suggesting this, because a) - there's absolutely no misunderstanding you when you write; you're clear as day... and b) - I don't think you're closed off, resistant or difficult when you write. On the contrary - I feel I'm getting to know you! And I like what I know, so far.

You know how some people learn better by just listening? better than by reading? or how some people have to write something down to be able to remember it? Well - what I figured out about my own "symptoms" similar to yours above - was that it was way easier for me to write than talk to someone especially if the topic was intensely emotional. I literally get verbally "all choked up" - and my frustration level goes up accordingly - when I'm not able to make myself understood to another person, or they're choosing not to hear me, or I haven't found the right words to make it clear as day -- because I'm distracted by own emotions. I literally don't express myself verbally - the way I write here. Inhibition and being ignored and/or put down & criticized and shamed/humiliated does that to a person. It also sometimes manifests as "difficult", "resistant" ... because of frustration and anger and "closed" because of grief, loss, distrust... or in my case, fear.

I really think Dr. G was ahead of the curve, when he provided the board for us to write like this. He caught on... that for whatever complicated reason or theory born of working with people who were the "collateral damage" of PD parents... that we were FINALLY able to get off our chests (and backs...) the horrendously heavy burdens we lugged around that kept us "stuck" in our lives and rebuild new lives for ourselves... he caught on that writing worked better for some people, than talking.

I don't think you're depressed. You tend to find the simple good in each day - the sun and breeze, funny little animals - and that disqualifies you. Depression is Flat-Land; it's only 15 shades of grey (not 256); depression doesn't WANT to change or make things better - it doesn't believe that even exists. You know it exists and you want to start getting there for yourself. What helps, when one is in that spot, is a lot of validation - cheerleaders, people encouraging you when you run into the inevitable struggles this involves, people who can help you navigate those, and people who will applaud and celebrate with you each successful step you take... until you learn how to do this, yourself. (Coz Mama sure as hell didn't teach you this...)

I know you can do this, Star. It's not gonna happen overnight - it's not possible to just be teleported into that (wishes notwithstanding). It's a hundred, a thousand, itty-bitty steps and decisions and taking chances that makes up a long journey, right? And step one is the most important (but you've already taken that one).

I've often thought... that maybe a life coach would be more useful to you than a T. Someone who does have a T background (so she "gets" why it's foreign or difficult for you), but who's focus is: what can we improve about practical daily life first... to enable you to get to another "place" emotionally where you can seriously tackle the bigger things on your list? It's not like you're not able to work a lot of it out on your own - you've proven that here. But you're also starting to figure out that there are things you might need help with -- better help than is available to you right now and that you need to do some other things first... to make that possible.

What I'm saying is: you're already in the process of doing this - mentally, emotionally preparing yourself and making choices - and you simply need that partner in 3-D to help you with the practical stuff that "mama never showed you". If your current T can't do this or help you... maybe you to ADD someone else to the mix (not just replace)... and then save the T-work for those kinds of things. And maybe this T just isn't a good fit for you, too. You'll sure know, when it's "right".

You're already making changes; getting clearer for yourself. You're already doing what you know you want and need to do. You don't want to go back to the very beginning and start all over -- and you really don't need to. There isn't anything wrong with you that can't be put right - with a kind, patient, encouraging, creative-thinking partner or two.

I'd be willing to bet on your success.
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: Hopalong on February 02, 2012, 08:34:28 AM: What she said.

I'm sorry, Boat. I didn't mean to override your experience or suggest anything humiliating.

I am in wanna-fix-it mode or just wanna-help mode and sometimes one just wants to be heard.

I hear you.

love,
Hops
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: Meh on February 02, 2012, 10:33:56 PM: No biggie Hops. 8)
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: Meh on February 02, 2012, 11:05:32 PM: Can I make up a new diagnosis: "lost soul" syndrome.

I think there is some piece of me not having a strong sense of self and belonging and also some lack of whole life plan. I don't have a plan for my life, I never did. I had short term strategic ideas that I often did accomplish but sticking that into a big picture of who I am supposed to be has always been very hard. I think I'm more susceptible to others advice and opinion and suggestions. Most people can shrug this stuff off especially if they have a bigger life plan that is already in place. Heck never mind I don't know.

I'm in my 30's, Clearly it is sinking in hard that I didn't belong to a family when I was a kid growing and it also looks that way as an adult too at this point...and if feels very very lonely. Not that it's my whole issue but I think it's nagging at my soul. I just feel greif for what I didn't have and won't ever have. I'm not going to make up stories about how any job so so fullfilling that it makes up for a lack of personal life or something.

Part of the problem me going into the therapist is I have a hard time explaining everthing to her, I wish she was just vulcan. It frustrates me that I have to explain things to her, I mean I know thats the only way she would know, the thought of it just makes me feel tired. Like my muscles go weak when I think of how to tell her everything thats weighing on my soul.
I also just feel like I don't trust her.

In theory I was just supposed to be in some sort of slump but not a permanent life style change.

I've lost view of the bigger picture in life, I'm aware that the larger picture is there. I've been focusing on the little things, going to the foodbank and making meals, and doing my dumb temp jobs. It's hard to accept that this is supposed to be an opportunity.

I get a lot of pleasure out of making my meals, I figure it's the one nice thing I can do for myself and it gives me the opportunity to do something with my hands.

I'm aware that little decisions in my life had more to do with dumb good luck or dumb bad luck that propelled me forward. Smart people know that, they know how essential it is to get going on a good path rather then a bad path. I know these things intuitively but fall short at the whole plan part, and it's not even the whole plan that I struggle with, its a vague not knowing of somethings. Just lacking ever having enough direction maybe.

Afraid of the path that ends up in "Gee I didn't know this was going to happen".
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: sKePTiKal on February 03, 2012, 09:47:11 AM: I like that... "lost soul syndrome"! Good words, because if you can sum it up like that - your soul is no longer lost (to you). You - your conscious mind - now sees it, recognizes it, and can protect it with different things than when you were a child. It's super progress, too. It might take awhile to get to know how these two parts of yourself intersect, overlap, and learn how to work together and protect each other. But that is more of a playful adventure... than dangerous journey.

This image of you swimming to the surface through the depths of water, like a mermaid who's been changed to a human who needs air to breathe... comes to mind. And perhaps, that's because the toxic parts of your grieving are diminishing... it's done; drained of intensity... (PERHAPS... it's able to continue on auto-pilot while you enjoy breathing fresh air??) eh! whaddooIknow? Could be; schmood be... but if it's so, you need to know that you'll probably always a tad sensitive to the loss you're grieving -- which qualifies you to be be a gen-u-wine member of the human race -- it's what the poets mean by "human condition".

I have to take issue with the basic premise, though, behind what you said here:

Quote
I'm aware that little decisions in my life had more to do with dumb good luck or dumb bad luck that propelled me forward. Smart people know that, they know how essential it is to get going on a good path rather then a bad path. I know these things intuitively but fall short at the whole plan part, and it's not even the whole plan that I struggle with, its a vague not knowing of somethings. Just lacking ever having enough direction maybe.

Afraid of the path that ends up in "Gee I didn't know this was going to happen".

LIFE HAPPENS while we're making plans, you know? And while I have a lengthy, complete "mommy-lecture" for you on the nature of Shoulds vs. Real-life... for now, I'll just say that if life always went according to some plan for everyone it would be so boring I couldn't stand it. The Should-Idea that one person turns into a life-path... doesn't always fit... isn't always right... for the next person. And that Life-Path... a person is allowed to change their minds about it, you know? And about success/failure on that life-path?? Ya gotta remember that appearances can be deceiving and some people put more energy into keeping up appearances, than working the path.

So it's a lot messier than it sounds. But it doesn't have to be. Just pick out the pieces (from the available should-ideas) that you know have to be there: you have to live somewhere, right? How much money do you need to live? So... that amount of money is the first criteria you need to meet, when looking for a job. After just those 3 things: everything else is options, personal expression - the "I likes/dislikes" of personal preference - and those dream-list things that feed the soul... whether that's travel, music, relationships.... whatever. I know, you already know this. I'm preaching to the choir.

But forgive yourself, already, for taking a "time-out" from life to find your own soul. Not everyone does this; not everyone CAN do this... and from here on out, things will be easier. Different some undescribable way. Give yourself some well-deserved pats on the back, a couple hugs (from me), and figure out what you want to choose, design or do first and remember to give yourself some slack, be patient, and enjoy the adventure.
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: Meh on February 03, 2012, 07:33:16 PM: Quote from: PhoenixRising on February 03, 2012, 09:47:11 AM
The Should-Idea that one person turns into a life-path... doesn't always fit... isn't always right... for the next person. And that Life-Path... a person is allowed to change their minds about it, you know? And about success/failure on that life-path??

I don't think it's helpful for me to go through everything that you guys write and then for me to counter-talk about what I really meant or what I'm getting at. This is a big part of why I just have some posts that I lock and only write back to myself.

When I wrote the prior comment above I already had the running self dialogue to myself: "Don't compare myself to others". "Not everybody is married and has a career and a family"..Blah blah, "we aren't all on the same path"... "life isn't formulaic"...

I already said these things to myself because they must be very common automatic pilot statements.... and I wrote the comment anyways because I haven't had a lot of success with relationships in my personal life and it really is an issue that I need to work on. I'm not comfortable anylonger at this point in my life with the emotionally stunted/damaged/black sheep whatever...term...way that I have lived....this has been an expression flowering out of the neglect and lack of parenting/mentoring and generally slipping through the cracks...way that I have been living that is not working.

I know what I'm trying to say even if I didn't say it very well.

I'm very challenged in relating to others in personal relationships and it's not an area of my life I wish to ignore. Also if I'm slowly missing out on ever being a part of a family in anyway whatsoever because I just ran out of time and I was too damaged....well for me personally there is a huge grief and loss in that. A grief that seems to be a continuum flowing from my past and replaying itself out into my present. I really don't give a rat's @ss what popular culture says about who people should be or who they don't have to be.

I know that I have missed out and I know that I need to be a part of something and that I need a reason to live and I need to be building my own life. Its a piece of what I need to be pretty serious about to even feel motivated to get my cr@p together. I often feel like I don't belong in the world and that there is no place for me here. After looking into this, I found that there were different parts to it and part of it is related to my personal relationships. --And I'm not talking about saying hi to a neighbor or waving to a garbage man, or volunteering to pick up after other people's children, or talking to a student, or speaking to my mother....most people find a real framework of significant people in their lives and right now I have none. I'm not saying that I expect my life to look like other people's blah blah...but I need to give myself the opportunity to see myself as a g@d-dang grown up with my own life.

I don't want to find out that I missed out on life over and over again just because I was too F'ed up to figure it out.

Well heck, I guess really I need to say is that I don't expect anybody to understand my whole unique situation. Part of the thing is I have a hard time articulating my personal circumstances sometimes even though I do a lot of it on here. There literally was no space for me growing up. My parents didn't really talk to me a lot about me or about my life or about what I would do. When I need to say things things for myself at this age not only is it somehow strenuous to get it out of my mind in a coherent meaningful way but also figuring out the emotions along with it and also trying to figure out my identity in this context. Well anyways it may not make
sense to you but its part of what I do here when I write.

I get frustrated when I have to talk about the larger picture of my life because I'm reinventing the wheel out of thin air.
Jumping screen need new box.

I'll write more, I just need to say it, to clarify to feel like I have the right to even want a life for myself. Maybe it also helps me to go into a therapist and have something sort of figured out what to say to her otherwise I struggle when I am sitting there, frustrated that I have to take the time to explain things to her. Going to go get some exercise now before my brain implodes, going to a museum, going to come back and make some dinner, try my best to fill out some lame-@ss paper work my therapist gave me, and resubmit some resumes for secretarial jobs that I can't seem to get because the people getting them now are college graduates. Who knew that one would have to go through 4 years of college just to be able to answer a telephone and stamp and staple papers together. There are jobs that I did 10 years ago. Wait....it's because I'm not supposed to be applying for these jobs I'm supposed to have a real career.... :roll:

Yeah I'm a "smart-@ss" I know. It's because I'm frustrated beyond what you even understand.
I have a dumb housing director telling me that I can't go to school- and even a person can't be a student while in certain types of low-income housing situations..--then I have my dumb therapist who's husband helped support her while she went back to school trying to "challenge my beliefs about going back to school" and "she was the first person in her family to graduate from college"....yeah yeah yeah. I'm tired of it the inconsistency and all of it. She doesn't really get that sometimes I can't even afford tooth paste. It's true. I have at times received charity toothpaste and charity toothbrushes at the same time I still have to pay rent to stay here. And I'm really SICK OF IT!.
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: Meh on February 03, 2012, 08:11:38 PM: Oh, and people point out to me that "we" should be grateful for the charity tooth brushes. No joke.

Yeah I can see that, It's good to get the dumb little things that you need...but it's not enough and I'm not talking about needing a new hot tub, sports car, breast implants, pure breed pets, diamond rings, vacation homes... here. I just need to be able to buy my own junk and go to the doctor and have a dumb job to go to.

yeah I know I have a foul, glass have empty attitude....I don't care!!! I'm pissed off! I can't listen and hear and be receptive to these people anymore because they contradict each other and they only speak in vague terms....I tune them out- sort of blankly vapid stare at them and nod my head and they don't like me because they sense I'm being not respectful to authority...well what sort authority do they have? Not enough to be of any real assistance. I would like to tell them all to kiss it, but I won't I will sit there and politely just agree with them with a partial frown on my face. I need to think beyond my current circumstances, and the current personalities around this.

Social workers only work for those who will eventually and forever will be on disability or welfare or whatever. They don't have the ability to help me. They help people to be helpless.

Moving on.

I don't expect you to "get it". I just need to complain about it though.
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: Meh on February 04, 2012, 02:51:27 PM: Don't worry you guys, I'm not offended.

I just get really particular about what I write and I know it's sort of weird that I even put it up on the board but for whatever reason its easier for me to write it in the context of a community and I think it helps me to. So I'm glad you are here.

I know in life during polite conversation there is a certain amout of give and take and just sort of going along with what each other says but I guess I'm not really bantering. I'm just trying to figure out some kind of psychological space to clarify issues.

I mean I recognize that every body on here has got their own issues going on.
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: Meh on February 04, 2012, 02:59:20 PM: As far as the therapy goes, I'm not liking it. I don't come out of her office feeling better. During the time that I'm in the office I sense some kind of vagueness on her part and maybe that is because they are trained to be detached to the outcome of a situation. It could be that I sense that detachment. Could just be the fact that she really doesnt get it because she hasnt experienced it herself.

The other thing is I notice that feeling loved is an energizing warm feeling and its obvoius that its got to be healthy to feel this way.

Therapy on the other hand is literally the wound picking process, it is not love, and I get sort of emotional and weepy....that gives me the feeling of weakness. I really have to ask myself what is the clinical value of this action--the therapist picking somebodies wounds versus helping the person get to a better place. I'm just not convinced it's good to re-experience pain.

I swear that if people just treated each other better then nobody would need therapy. I know its over simple....but hey it is simple!
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: Meh on February 07, 2012, 05:56:02 PM: I'm feeling a lot of frustration and anger related to therapy. During a walk outside I was considering this and still trying really hard to understand if therapy is indeed helping me or not. There are just so many layers. My current crisis is one thing but even when I am not having a "crisis" I still have an undercurrent of issues. So maybe I will stick with the therapy even if its just for the fact that its free to me right now. Chances are when I have income I wont be spending it on $75 an hour therapy like I used to.

Part of my frustration is the effort it takes to try to explain to the therapist and also a feeling that she doesn't get it.

I think she wanted to get me out of a rumination type cycle and I understand that BUT I still feel like I'm ruminating on the same stuff with the "problem solving" paper work crap. Its just papers with words that are supposed to identify problems.
Duh- the financial one comes up now --but this wasn't always the case. Even when I have money I still have problems that led me to where I am..its like a weird cycle pie chart (in my mind). But maybe it is in my mind. I don't know what the F*ck my problem is anymore. I think its all obvious and clear and trying to look at it any deeper just makes me feel more confused. I'm homeless- meaning I don't have any sense of stability and even the stupidest tasks that should be easy are a pain in the rear---DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN THAT TO HER? If I have to she doesn't get it. BUT instead of getting all pissed off I will try to write it all out and politely explain it to her. I get at these points where my mind just gets going in too many directions. I thought I was focused going into therapy but now I feel unfocused again and I HATE that!. Maybe there is a little of tunnel vision going on but the feeling of tunnel vision focus helps me to feel like I am in control and have a purpose.

I sort of think that she has this whole thing in her mind of how it's important for her patients to be motivated. I was motivated to make an appointment with her even though that process even took a while I still jumped through all the hoops. I'm motivated for my life to get better BUT I don't know how to make that happen. I don't see the light at the end of the f'ing tunnel.
I will try to just write something more out to speak to her about.

Maybe the problem is that it really is impossible to explain some things to some people. I guess if I'm struggling to make her understand that is a whole issue in itself that I don't need. I have other things I want to focus on--not on the feeling like I can't say it in a way that makes sense to her.
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: Meh on February 07, 2012, 06:05:55 PM: The bouncing box is at the bottom of my posts I need to start new box:

The other thing I wonder about is if this therapist has her own aversion to anger and frustration. I know I did when I was younger I almost never felt angry even though I had emotional problems back then probably the same ones I still have today.

Last night my mother wanted to talk to me on the phone- she wanted to tell me how fortunate she is and she includes me in that too because she assumes that she can tell me how I am supposed to feel and think and what I'm supposed to believe. So my mother trys to tell me that I am fortunate and dumb bull crap like that. Honestly I just want to kick her head right off her shoulders like a ball on a football field. I realize some people will never ever ever EVER be able to understand something like this.
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: Meh on February 16, 2012, 11:17:15 PM: Back to complain some more about my therapist. She does this thing where she is trying to challenge my thinking process. The thing is it really isn't helpful and it pisses me off. She says to me "Is that so"....and I say emphatically...Yes, it is so....and I clip right along not going into it because instead of a challege I experience it as dismissive. I wish I could have found a therapist who was a better fit for me. I haven't really gotten into anything very deep with her. I just told her that the problem solving paperwork she gave me frustrated me so "I just stayed with the frustration and decided that even if I am angry or upset that I can....continue without giving up" Oh hell. I'm feeling a little under the weather today my stomach hurts. I'M ANGRY THAT I DON'T FEEL UNDERSTOOD by my therapist. She is paid through some kind of grant, I swear they should just pay for me to go to the freaking dentist and then I would get something solid out of their stupid health care grant project crap. I mean I have seen her about 4-5 times now. If she only gets paid 50 dollars each time (I don't know how much she is paid)-- that is like $250 that I could give to a dentist. DUH--

I've continued to go to the therapist though just in case there is even like a 1% chance that she can give me 1% help.

I mean I'm understanding that I not her her has to do all the real work I just wish she had more to add to the mix because all I have is me. All that is going to come out of me is the same old garbage. I wish she could ADD something that I don't already know/have.
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: Meh on February 17, 2012, 10:22:05 PM: Um hum. The therapist has said that to me a few times the "Is that so" part. She says it a little humoursly.

She doesn't understand the Voicelessness piece at all.

It frustrates me that I would have to try to convince a therapist of what voicelessness is like- this is not even possible--. You know how there are some people that know without being explained to. The voicelessness is not even the main focus of what I have been trying to discuss with her--more the homelessness. I think the homelessness is related to my FOO emotional problems though.
I see everything as being a part of a big sticky spiderweb system--maybe that is flawed thinking I don't know.

I'm angry that her philosophy is all about the changing a persons flawed thinking--it's exactly what I wanted to avoid.

I really feel like I want mentoring of some sort. What if I'm like an omelette and I have eggs and cheese and olives but I don't have salt and pepper. HOW WOULD I EVEN KNOW WHAT SALT AND PEPPER IS? If I'm missing salt and pepper and I don't understand salt and pepper how can I say "I need salt and pepper". Thats where I wish the therapist had more insight/intuition.

if I don't get the bigger picture together I think I'm going to self-sabotage myself back down. I think I tried to say that to her also that I need something that I can be excited about.

I'm afraid I'm a really tough client for her we already got in an argument over the term depression.

Quote from: Hopalong on February 17, 2012, 12:41:25 PM
FWIW, I am also extremely sensitive to dismissive language, and that would trigger me too.

If I had a therapist who unthinkingly responded, "Is that so?" when I made a statement, I would need to say this to her at some point:

I need to bring something up. I know you must not mean it the way it sounds, but I need to tell you that I have a strong feeling of being dismissed when I make a statement and you respond, 'Is that so?'" If there is another phrase you could use, I would really appreciate that. "Is that so?" sounds like, "I don't believe you" or "I doubt you." And that makes it harder to feel at ease talking with you. Would you mind using a different phrase when you're responding to me? Thanks.

fwiw,
Hops
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: Meh on February 17, 2012, 10:43:19 PM: So I'm noticing that The bigger picture is hard for me. I'm not certain if this is because "my mother never told me" or if its more related to other issues.

This is something I wish my therapist could explain more to me.

Ultimately the bigger picture is created out of small minutia. Maybe a person never really does conceptualize their bigger picture.

In my current circumstances I feel at a loss for the search for meaning or purpose. In my mind a life worth living involves cultivation and investment something that I'm absolutely not doing right now.

I try to ask myself where am I going, what am I supposed to be doing, what do I want to be doing and I don't come up with any answer in fact I tear up and get a headache over it. Asking myself this question actually makes me cry. I just can't come up with anything. If it gives me a headache it must mean that it just gives me tension/strain/stress. Where do we go to find answers like this?
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: Meh on February 17, 2012, 11:03:39 PM: I don't have ANSWERS and solutions. I know what I feel like I'm missing out on and what I have grief or loss over and that is what I thought was the key to finding solutions. All the therapist seems able to do is say "so that must make you feel sad"...and then she is picking a would and I'm supposed to get emotional or something. It's just not helping. How does this help? Its just a question to the ethers.

My therapist is basically just communicating to me that I have to figure it out on my own. She gave me some dumb papers that identify problems and then says to identify goals. The thing is I have a problem with getting my plans to work and that is why I ended up here in the first place. I mean I'm already failing. So why tell a failing person to figure something out clearly something is wrong with me. Or at least now I feel that something is really fu<ked up with me. I hate therapy. I don't know I need to give it a rest. If I'm just becoming angry with the therapeutic approach maybe that is a cue to me that this isn't working.
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: sKePTiKal on February 18, 2012, 09:24:49 AM: Well, Star... I can see where you're frustrated and even maybe angry at the whole T process. It's not exactly a comfortable or nurturing experience in the beginning; or it wasn't for me. I clammed up, ran away a few times and seriously wondered if it was worth the agony I was going through. It's just a wild guess on my part, but your T might be trying to explore where your anger-buttons are... find out what they are because it just might provide enough "textbook"-kind of info for her to decide where to go from there... and start making some more productive (and practical, useful) suggestions. Finding those buttons, isn't the end-result of therapy... it's what I used to call the "gold nuggets of treasure" that helps a person untangle the incomprehensible "big picture" of themselves. Maybe. It's a possibility, anyway... some Ts work that way.

I can relate to a couple of things you said; I went through something like this in T, too. There was a really hilarious moment for me (in retrospect - I was deadly serious at the time and about to have a nuclear meltdown) when I was in the midst of a tirade about not ever being listened to; that no one ever HEARD me or cared about what I thought was important... and she said, Really? Is that so? and just looked at me.

And I finally "got it" (hard-headed as I am). She was listening me; she cared; she let me say anything I wanted... any way I could get it out of my head, which as you've probably figured out from my writing was a whole lotta words that took forever to "spit out" what I was really trying to SAY.

She often asked me what I wanted. And I really couldn't say - because no one ever bothered to care about what I wanted and I didn't dare want anything personally, for fear of Nmom. I felt like a non-person because I couldn't come up with a list. Who doesn't want something, you know? And why didn't I know what I wanted? SIGH... I still don't walk around with a list of things "I want" in my head. I didn't even know how to find out what I wanted - sheesh! At that time, the "quit smoking" want was pretty high on my list (because my MD said I should - and well, everyone knows this, right?) and I had 1 more thing - live near the water. That was all I knew for sure. I expected that she would give me a whole list of ways to quit smoking... a fool-proof explanation and plan... and more than once, I confronted her with all the other stuff we talked about - and what I'd said my goal was, in coming to therapy - help me quit smoking and why weren't we doing that? I even quit therapy for year and tried to quit smoking on my own.

THAT was a true failure, in that I simply made myself totally miserable. I went back, because I couldn't function at all, like that - I was in pieces that I didn't recognize and didn't know how they fit together.

My point, Star... is that sometimes to "fix" what's wrong... it's necessary to disassemble "us" and examine each piece in detail. And I don't think it's possible to do this by one's self. It's like we're too close to picture, to see exactly what the composition is - what the picture's about... to find that one thing that "just doesn't work" in the picture. Therapy is all about understanding how each individual piece of "us" works to create the "big picture".

Hang in there! If you're already at this point, then you're making pretty fast progress. It took me a year or more, to get where you are now. It might be confusing and yucky for awhile longer... but really, it DOES get better and when you start on that track, progress even speeds up.
Title: Re: Therapists
Post by: Meh on February 20, 2012, 11:22:10 PM: I guess when I have loss I want somebody to tell me: "Okay so you made a mistake, understandable, but now- here see this is what you need to DO to recoup what you have lost".

Basically I want to say to my therapist: " I don't want sympathy and empathy..instead I want somebody to show me how I can live differently". There are connections that I'm not making, maybe they are really little things that I have missed...but the little things have and big consequences.

I think the answers are not in my brain, not in books, not on the board, not in therapy even. The answer is not in crafty stuff.