Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Ales2 on January 17, 2012, 12:50:12 AM
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Hi everyone,
I had to share - I have been NC with my NMom since April 2010 when she showed up at my doorstep accusing me of stealing my Dad's paperwork. She claims I stole his death certificate. I never did, never even saw the document she refers to. I told her to "get out" and she left. I was furious. A couple of weeks later, saturday before Mothers Day 2010, I went to her home to clean out a closet I had there. We exchanged a few words, but I was there with a purpose, clean my closet, dont argue with her and return the keys I've had since 1986 (the year I left for college) as I want no further contact with the old house. Since then, I have kept to my word, with two exceptions - December 2011, she called me after she heard I had a car accident to see if I was OK. It was three sentences. "I'm fine. I hope the guy doesn't sue me ( I rear-ended him) and thanks for your call."
Keep in mind, I have a financial agreement with her where I am getting a monthly deposit since I am out of work. Not a great arrangement, but when my Dad passed away, I was told there was no will, no inheritance. So years later when I needed help, I asked (which I regret), a temporary agreement was made (which I thought would be 2-3 months) but has gone much past that. During that time, I discovered that she is far better off than she's admitted to, in fact, I discovered a web of lies and deceit on her end. I've come to believe that her selfishness, lies and deceit is all about control, manipulation and distrust of us kids as a result of her Nism, not really a reflection on us adult (41 and 43) "kids". If anything, I regret not having made a more autonomous agreement with her, but I did not have full knowledge (her Nism, her resources, my autonomy) at the time and of course, didn't really want the money anyway, just wanting to move on with my life.
So this past weekend, I had to call her to ask two medical questions and we spoke briefly. She asked about my cats and and I kept it cordial. I just wanted information and wanted to reveal as little as possible about my life. She never asked about how long I would need help or anything, which surprised me, but I was also relieved because I want to avoid that topic completely. She then asked when she could come visit me and I said (without much thought) "what would be the point of that?". She was speechless. The call ended right after that.
As I was reflecting on it today, I did well. I was not prepared for the question, but have thought over the last couple of weeks, that I have outgrown her nonsense, and my response certainly showed me that it feels real. I wasn't drawn in at all. I don't even try to consider her feelings, I'm just focused on protecting myself, because I know any other response has the potential to draw me in and that wont happen ever again.
Also, leately, I've had arecurring dream where I am sitting with my fiance (who seems to take the form of business partner I had a crush on last year), my Mother and my Brother and when she asks about our wedding, I rather palinly respond - "Why would you want to come, you've never been supportive of my love life, cared who I'm with or even wished me a happy family of my own." And, sadly, its the truth, I can imagine myself saying this and it feels appropriate, totally true, although a little cruel. I guess this conversation and the dreams I have had are reflecting a change in who I am, how I feel and how I will deal with her in the future.
Anyway, the best part of NC has taught me how little I ever needed her in the first place and how much I have grown without her involvement. I'll never go back to the way things were and thats mostly sad for her, great for me. I've moved on. The other day I was asking myself why things in my life have not changed as much as I need them to and the answer came back to me that I have not changed enough yet. So, more work to do to find a new job, a relationship ( a REAL one, with a marriage commitment) and a new place to live...
I'm hoping 2012 will be a great year! All the best to everyone!
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Okay here is what I wrote in my journal today about why any kind of reconciliation with her would be impossible:
She can't be trusted ever again (this after indirectly and directly lying about her financial situation in regards to my Dad's estate for 20 plus years). I wouldn't have learned anything about Nism if I let her back into my life. The problem is insidious, begins innocently becomes serious slowly. Hard to see the slippery slope with her. There is no way to keep the positive and deal with or eliminate the negative. Avoidance or NC is really the only way.
What she does is not outright abuse, she is an underminer, which robs my self esteem, autonomy and discourages my assertiveness. (this follows me into other aspects of my life). She also lies, manipulates and misleads - a very slippery slope. The slope is invisible until you've taken the fall and are badly hurt.
The problem is also invisible to bystanders and others, which leaves the problem entirely in my lap without any kind of validation, support or much needed guidance. Hence the need to be totally NC and self responsible.
:(
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Thanks tt - this is excellent thank you. Could you explain what you mean by people who need to be autonomous can fall prey to manipulators? It sounds kind of obvious - manipulators know we are weak so they find us or we choose them because we choose subservience. Is this what you were saying or is there another point I am missing?
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Ales, I'm truly sorry.
It takes such courage to face the feeling of motherlessness when the mother is still alive.
TT, there you are again.
You could have been bitter for how long it took to understand, instead you decided to be grateful you now understand.
(Please come coach my life.)
:)
Hops
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Oh tt - you misunderstood what I was asking! I'm sorry - no hurt was intended towards you!
You are right. It is obvious. I smack my forehead and say, How could I not get it? Why did it take so long?
No, no, no, its not obvious to those of us who are victims of Ns! It takes learning, just as you said, the unlearning of bad habits and hangups. My T once put it this way, its like having a bald spot on the back of your head, you know its there, but you can't see it, you can only view it in the mirror and even then the image is backwards. We KNOW its there and we have to be told to look to understand its shape and all its quirks. There is no reason to "smack your forehead"! I just thought that maybe there was more to your explanation than I was seeing.
I agree with everything you said!
And, Hops, yes thank you for your kind words. I so often read what is going on with your D and want to offer support but often dont know what I can say that would be helpful, except to say, I'm sorry... you sound so caring, thoughtful and helpful and I'm sorry your relationship is painful.
Thanks to you both...
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Well, the way I saw it as a kid - and before I ever learned about all this - is that I was brainwashed.
From my mom's side of things, this was perfectly acceptable, normal, and she truly NEEDED* to brainwash me, keep me on that short dependent leash. From my side of things - I fought this like a cat being held over a bathtub... and ran & hid every single chance I got. And of course, I think we all desire that deep, deep connection with at least one person... a mom is the natural candidate... at exactly the same time we desire, need, and are addicted to autonomy, self-efficacy and competence.
When mom is a threat to autonomy and plain old dangerous, there exists a classic inner "conflict". There are probably as many ways of "living with" that conflict as there people... and each of us does try many different things, until we find the combination that's just right for us.... at least, I certainly hope that a right combination exists! ;)
*I'm tired of trying to decide whether this is objectively "good" or "bad". It was bad for me, it happened. It was what it was.
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Phoenix - Brainwashed is an excellent word to describe what I went through as well. I look at it as more like I was lied to, controlled, manipulated and misled (i.e brainwashed) and when I questioned things or tried to assert myself, I was gaslit. It took more than a while to figure things out (almost 40 years) and undo alot of things. I also notice something strange that I might have to deal with - is that on PMS days, the emotions can actually be triggered by reading or seeing something that brings up the emotion. So either I am clearing the emotion from the all the painful stuff I went through or I have another problem I am not yet aware of (besides pms and depressive mood swings).
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I think I know what you mean, Ales... it's like a reflex emotional detox'ing. Almost more bio-based...
and one always "feels better" or at least cleaner, clearer, lighter... afterwards. This is a bizarre idea that just popped into my head: but maybe we do actually hold all that toxic crap in various of the millions or billions of cells in our body... and that keeps the thoughts/emotions associated with it running along in a vicious cycle... until we finally purge it all out.
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An update - Last week (friday), I had to call my NMom regarding a tax issue. She has been helping me since I lost my job (I partly felt entitled to ask her because I did not inherit anything when my dad passed away 12 years ago) and I had to ask about some details about all of that. Turns out it is just what I expected, including more lies and bad financial planning on her part.
Anyway. my concern was just that now the NC has been broken, again, for a series of discussions on how to deal with the money issue. I told her trivial details about my cats and gossiped about friends, but also saw an old pattern emerge that I am very aware of (i.e me marginalizing myself to get her support or encouragement. Its very weird. She marginalizes me a little by suggesting I take a lesser position and salary, but weirdly, I then marginalize myself.) I know that this financial issue needs to be resolved and then I have to get back to being NC. If I sense she attempts to delay the decisions to spend more time talking to me, I will quickly tell her call me when you decide. Simple as that.
Not sure any of this makes sense.
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The issue is mostly resolved now, just a matter of filing some paperwork.
What lingers is that I can see now that NC has been broken, she is attempting to make nice with me and is actually making offers "in my best interest".
She truly has no clue as to what that it is. She also attempts to make delusional offers (such as selling her home to buy me a home free and clear - yeah right!) to get back into my good graces. This only leaves me four alternatives when she goes back to the non-sense. One is reconcile, now that I know the game and can't be taken advantage of, stay in limited contact; Two - call her on it - it won't happen and I would not want it if it did (does anyone want to accept a gift from an N that they can take back or use that to stay in one's life - NOOOOO!), go back to NC and Three - tell her I am aware of her undermining tricks, dont like it, want my autonomy and won't go back to the relationship -telling her its best we not speak, go back to NC.. Fourth option - just go back to NC without any explanation.
Whats "in my best interest" is me developing my autonomy and requires no involvement on her part!
Oh, option One is not an option and wont really ever be considered, four is probably most likely. Two and Three are potentially hazardous and would escalate problems, not solve anything.
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Latest news is that the current situation has blown over and I will be going back to NC. I wanted to point out some observations that I'm still learning from. Even though I think of myself as autonomous now, and her lack of support no longer matters to me, her lack of support and mixed messages is quickly evident in our conversations and its the reason I want to remain NC.
One thing I notice with her is that my voice cracks and becomes timid. I can hear it and feel it, that is always an indication to me, my self esteem is dropping and it will make it hard for me to be assertive.
She tends to be manipulative, dangling promises and ideas she will never fulfill (like buying me a home outright), she exhibits no empathy or understanding, she marginalizes me and when I marginalize myself, fails to encourage me, she doesn't support meaningful career growth, always wants to send me back to school, not realizing going back to entry level won't solve anything, she doesn't encourage me to stand up for myself, always assumes I am the troublemaker, not the other person, with her its not so much about bad advice, but how she makes me feel worse about myself, by lowering my self esteem and that is not constructive. There are some mixed messages her as well and I think some of the mixed messages are ultimately why my life is a mixed bag as well.
The only thing in my best interest is remaining NC and becoming more assertive and autonomous.
I have not been posting much on other threads, forgive me, have been caught up in my own non-sense, but wish all my friends here on the board a great month.
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I should also add- lets not forget the April 2010 accusations of stealing my Dad's paperwork. There is NO excuse for what she did, she knows very well I did not steal ANYTHING, EVER and this was some kind of N rage that she somehow thought would get me to cave or something. A week or so later, she did the very same thing to my brother. She never offered an apology or straightened this out, and I would likely not accept an apology as I know it was a complete manufactured LIE on her part. This is a sign of how serious her NPD is and even though she tries to make nice now, I have no illusions that nothing has changed.
I often say she is like a riptide- the ocean looks calm on the surface, so you swim farther out, taking a bigger risk, only to discover you are stuck in a riptide. And like an N that cannot be confronted, you can's swim back to shore directly, you have to parallel the beach to get out of the riptide before swimming back to shore. Great metaphor for Ns and conflict.
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Hi All - Things in my life have been challenging especially on the tax/banking/starting a business venture/ front. My NMom is taking advantage of these opportunities to get me on the phone and chat with her and she came to visit one night. Not good for me. Added stress and it was necessary for me to put aside NC for awhile. I don't like being anywhere near her, I've just outgrown her non-sense.
Anyway, went to my T to complain again about NMom issues and as I was leaving I texted him the following message. "As I was leaving, I'm wondering why you see me making no progress and are not offering more advice to overcome my issues and improve my life. Am I missing somehing?"
So, I await his response. I know I am supposed to solve my own problems but then what is the point of T?
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Hi Ales,
I was in a similar situation with my T about a year ago. What I finally figured out was that I had all the tools I needed to fix my problems, but I wasn't fixing them. She could see that and I couldn't. She'd kind of become my substitute mum - someone I could go to once a week and receive nurturing, validation, support - unconditionally. I think she was able to see that I was able to cope on my own, I suppose, but I hadn't seen that. I guess a bit like a real mum knowing you can do something and refusing to do it for you, so that you get on and do it by yourself - dealing with a difficult situation for the first time, say, as a teenager.
Obviously I don't know you or your situation really, really well, so I'm not saying that is what is going on for you, but maybe it's something to consider (and discard if it's not relevant!).
With the NC thing - I hope this doesn't sound harsh as I don't mean it to at all, but I don't think you can be NC if you accept anything from someone - whether it's money/gifts/the odd phone call - anything at all.
As I said, I hope that doesn't sound harsh, I really don't mean it to. For me personally, I'd had periods of little contact with my mum for quite some years before stopping altogether. What I found was that, during those times, she'd be real nice, give me nice things, take me and my boy out and generally step into caring mummy role. I think the little girl in me wanted that so badly that, even though my brain, my intellect knew what she was doing, something inside me openend up and I'd get my heart broken all over again. I think the prospect of being completely motherless can be so terrifying that we subconsciously find ways to put it off - by coping with their behaviour better, making excuses for them, telling ourselves it's not so bad. Then we go full circle and wind up being ill and stressed out and so the dance continues. It's exhausting.
I don't know if I'm getting my thoughts down very clearly - it's early here! I've tried to look at myself recently as seeking progression, not perfection. It sounds as though you've been coping with a difficult financial situation recently and that you've been in touch with your Mum and not fallen back into the web, so to speak, that sounds like progress. It seems you've found a situation with your T that you're not entirely happy with and you've been assertive and said something - that's progress. It probably doesn't feel like it at the minute, but they're steps in the right direction. I'm sorry not to have any answers for you, I hope by chewing things over it starts to get a bit clearer and feel a bit easier.
In the mean time, here is a great big motherly, nurturing, unconditional hug (((((((((((((((((((((((((((Ales)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Is there time for Ales at the minute? Are you being nice to yourself, looking after yourself, treating and rewarding yourself? They are all things I find helpful, and I find I do them the least when I need them the most - typical! Hope you are doing okay xx
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Not doing so great again today. Miserable. I feel worse after therapy. Problem is that in the past, I worked to have a good attitude in negative situations never realizing how truly hurt I was by things. In the end, nothing ever worked out right then either. Now I can't seem to stay positive about anything, I'm just too wounded and because I know it will just end up the same. T wants me to get rid of my anger and I'm like well, yeah. Intellectually, I know its bad for me and I will feel bad for all the time wasted feeling this way, but if I could make it go away, I would. :(
Two - I will respond to your post in bit, can't think beyond my current clouded mess right now.
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Ales, sometimes you have to just sit with the crap. Feel it, own it, see it, hear it. Recognise it. Try not to fight it, try to let it be there and look it right in the eye. I feel hurt because my mum did this. I feel angry because my best friend did that. I'm jealous because my neighbour got something I didn't. As much as none of us likes feeling bad, some things in life are bad and do make us feel that way. It feels huge because there's usually a backlog - we spend years putting on a brave face, avoiding things, telling ourselves things didn't hurt or didn't matter. Eventually it backs up and we have to let it through. My T once described it as one of those cupboards that everyone has, where you shove things that don't really have a place, where you put all the stuff that you aren't sure about but might need one day. Eventually the cupboard is so full you can't shut the door anymore, or find anything you do need. Then you have to take it all out and sort through it. One day, it just gets easier. It's tough not knowing when that day will come, though.
It's okay to stop being brave and allow yourself to crumple. Eventually, all the old stuff is out and dealt with. I find long walks help, journalling, heavy duty clear outs, the attic, the shed, that sort of thing. Everyone has their own thing that helps. You will get there xx
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Just one thing to add to Tupps' advice:
You'll be OK through the sorting, sitting, feeling process Ales. Nothing at all to be afraid of - like "going crazy" or completely losing control - it's all just those old fears clinging to all the stuff in the cupboard. Those fears rightfully belong to the person you USED to BE; not to you NOW. And the "sorting" process is kinda like a ritual, where you "honor" all those different moments - give them their due - and then when you've gotten to the very end of the process... well... I think you'll like the way THAT feels.
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Wow Two and Phoenix - thank you so much for your advice. You are both right - Two the advice on cleaning out, clearing out is true and I'm doing that now - including changing banks, got a new phone, sorted through old journals and files etc. And, oh yes, I am jealous of how easy some things have been for others... my cousins kid for example. Out of school 2 years, married, with a house and a baby on the way. Why? Her parents are wonderful, encouraging people and dont undermine her. Me, I'm 44, single and still renting, while she is miss-little-happy family. Yeech...
Phoenix - you are right on about feeling like losing control, I am losing control, in the sense that I'm growing into the more evolved me and that feels awkward. You are very right...thanks for that.
Had a little dream where my relatives staged an Intervention with my NMom, because she refuses to speak to anyone, yet wont say why. In it, I come thinking that we are shipping her off to a treatment center of some sort for her depression and Nism. When I get there, they tell me they want to "reconcile" with her - they dont seem to think she needs MAJOR help. So, I get up and say, thanks, but I can't help with this. I'm done with her non-sense and have no interest in reconciling. I walk out, leave and their faces are like WTH? !!!!!!!!
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That's a great dream, Ales! Sounds like you're no longer "of two minds" about the situation -- even your unconscious agrees! Less self-doubt, self-criticism, and lots of self-trust must feel pretty different... it's sorta like new-found "wholeness", I think.
There's a lot of interesting stuff that happens in "awkwardness". New situations, experiences, people, responses to people... I think I'm finally getting a little more comfortable with those moments... and then WHAM - here's a new one again - and it's like I've never learned a thing from all the other awkward moments. Zen mind, Beginner's Mind does have it drawbacks!!
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Hi Ales,
I'm glad you're having a good clear out and moving onwards. Completely understand what you say about the jealousy - I spent entire sessions with my T talking about how much I envied girls I was at school with who left school, got jobs, got married, had kids and lived happily ever after. I'm at a stage now where I can be happy for someone being happy and not compare myself to them. I think it's part of the healing thing - I'm alright about what happened now, I've worked through it and can be happy for other people. It's taken a really long time and I still have spells if things are difficult for me where I don't want to be around happy people! But it happens less often and doesn't last as long, or feel as intense - it's progress. You'll get there, too. I've also learnt that most people have some problems, it's just not always obvious to those around them, so even people who seem to have perfect lives often don't! Hope things are getting better for you xx
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I've had some very rough days. Spent my birthday all by myself. Took myself to brunch, a bookstore, a movie then had thai food and a drink. I had to ask myself if I could afford all of this... and was trying not to think that most people have someone to spend their bdays with and usually someone who takes them to brunch and movie. :(
The hardest part of this birthday was I've now hit the age, 44, where I have completely given up on the idea of children and family. Its very hard and when I think about it for more than a passing minute, I can get very, very sad. Seems to me that life without love and family is barely worth living and how will I live without it?
I feel like I've done all the right things over the last 7 years - did online dating, been set-up, went to singles events, went to therapy, dating coaches and read dozens of dating and relationship books and out of all that I had one relationship that lasted one year. Some of the dating coach stuff worked, thats how I met that guy and had a nice relationship with him until my wounded self kicked in and we broke up. Then I thought I went back to the dating coach and back to the therapist for help. Dating coach helped, therapy was useless. Surely, I've done all the inner work to find someone right for me, I know who I am and what my limitations are, what my needs are and what I can give to a relationship. I would think I'm ready, but at this age, I'm very discouraged.
So, now my conflict is - I don't want to give up - maybe its too late for kids, but I know I deserve a wonderful relationship and I want to remain open and trying (even though I canceled my online dating accounts). But, I am also torn, if I "give up" and just move on without being bitter, angry and hurt, knowing that if its meant to be, it will come, but I'm afraid I will adopt a bitter, withdrawn and avoidant attitude which of course, won't attract anything but more negativity.
Anyway, not sure what to do.
As for therapy, the T is being completely unhelpful and I've asked why he hasn't offered more guidance or suggestions on how I could improve my life or grow, but I don't want to get sucked into more therapy as I don't think he can help me anymore than he has. The only prescription I've found for myself is remain NC, strengthen my faith in good things coming from my struggles (I'm stronger than most b/c of what I know/been through) remaining positive, productive and assertive in all my dealings, continuing to work on my emotional triggers/wounds so I am affected by them less and let go/forgive all the nonsense and respect myself above all else. Thats all I can think to do inwardly to make my life better.
Anyway, hope all is well here for everyone on the board and thanks for all the support.
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Oh Ales, I'm sorry you're having such a bad time at the minute. I've been at those brick wall places where you've done it all and it still isn't working. It's a horrible place to be. It's good that you looked after yourself on your birthday, though, and took yourself out. Maybe that was your inner mummy looking after your inner child?
Would volunteering with children help? Or would that be more painful, do you think? Some people find it's a way of connecting and being around children when they aren't abe to be around their own, for whatever reason. Knowing you've made a difference to a child's life can be a wonderful thing.
I wonder if sometimes you have to sit still and wait for the world to catch up with your changes? I feel a bit like that myself now - I've done as much as I can and now I need to sit back and wait to see what the world brings me. I find it very hard not to be in control and actively work on things - I'm practising doing nothing! Maybe there's space for something like that at the minute.
A difficult time. Know that we are all thinking of you and sending positive changes your way xx
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Hi Ales, I'm sorry you're feeling blue & lonely... but I do think I see the reason, if you don't mind a direct, blunt suggestion?
Maybe you could try consciously "giving up" - forgoing - The husband, 2 kids & dog, & white picket fence definition of what the perfect life & total happiness and self-worth is? Maybe? I don't know that this "standard of success/happiness" was ever real, in the first place. But that's not to say that life has to suck, if you really do want this... nor that it doesn't happen to people. Most of the people I know who do have this -- found it by accident, when they weren't expecting it and weren't chasing it. But even when people do find this, it doesn't LAST without a whole lot of painful, tedious, hard work - lots of awkward, difficult conversations, raw feelings, & the courage to face each other, say what you want to say, and then compromise and go on. It's not the "happily ever after" that it's made out to be without it's challenges.
When my D was coming out of her first (awful) marriage and was so emotionally bruised... she came to the conclusion that it might just be better for her to have really, really good friends instead of the hubby - the 'two peas in a pod' scenario. She was working on herself, too. Took a few more terrible disappointments, difficult things, disillusionments... and in the process of trying to keep on keeping on and supporting/being supported by friends... found a very nice man who proposed (and that she would accept - she also learned to be exceedingly picky about her boundaries and who she ALLOWED into that kind of relationship with her). They're in no rush to be married; they'll get around to it when they have time. She doesn't want to have kids. She's willing to adopt later if she changes her mind. And this works for her. She is happier than I've seen her for a long, long time. And there's nothing wrong with that, you know? Sure she still has nightmares; anxiety; the usual... but she's a lot more content and happier; this works... for her, that is...
For you - I think you might've simply convinced yourself you NEED these things to live a fulfilled, happy life. If you could design your own alternative -- if you could be anyone else - and live anyone else's life - what would you be like? Write that story down. THEN, go back & write down the details - be as specific as possible - the story of your "white picket fence" dream. I'm gonna bet you'll see something you didn't know about yourself, comparing the two.
One more necessary piece of advice: NONE of us know what we're going to experience in life, when we're young. What life will throw at us. People live through all kinds of awful trauma - and heal; people live shortened lives of physical deprivation -- and dismal lives of emotional self-deprivation and their lives miraculously change (and I'm gonna bet there's a whole lotta hard work that went into that miraculous change...) -- when we obsess on only one, (seemingly) unobtainable magic happiness solution. At some point, we have to look at what we hoped we'd have in our lives - and what that life might be - and realize that in reality the road is really steep, twisty, and what we THOUGHT back then was our "secret happiness goal" simply may not "fit" anymore - and let it go. We have to adapt to "what is"...
and the unhappiest people I've known were the one's who didn't -- because they were chasing something they had no control over.
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Dang it - I'm so tired from my work trip to the old house I forgot:
I discovered somewhere along my healing path, that I was letting myself indulge in what I call "conditional" thinking. That is when I say: I can only be happy IF - certain conditions exist in my life. Well - I know where I learned that (at my mother's knee). Thing is - it's not fair of me, to do that to myself. When the conditions are removed - let go, forsaken, sacrificed - there is "open space" for happiness to occur spontaneously, which... after studying it so long... I think that's the natural law of happiness - it's spontaneous, it's a short-lived experience of giddiness, total well-being - and simple overall contentment... no longer wishing for, chasing, kicking myself for things that I haven't experienced... and thinking I'd really be happier IF I was, had, did those things. Ya never really know until ya try it, do it, or are it -- and most things are combinations of good/bad together anyway, even puppies & kittens. This "happiness" thing isn't dependent on people - I can be completely alone when it hits me... but it does happen more often around people I enjoy being with.
NO ONE is what they'd call "happy" 365/24/7 everyday of their lives. So I gratefully accept what comes my way - try not to sucker myself into conditional thinking - and cut myself some slack about "expectations". Two art degrees... no real career to speak of in art... and no huge DESIRE to do it... and yet I still brought home 4 boxes of art crap that I've hung on to for 20 years. Did I waste that time in art school? Absolutely not! I enjoyed it and lived it to the fullest... and then I think I just lost interest in it. Been there, done that... move on... you know? Maybe it's some nostalgia thing... once upon a time I did X. Will I make some more pictures? Maybe. I get ideas every once in a while... but what it was for me, it's significance... was a way of expressing myself -- it was my "voice". I'm all talked out except for granny-style advice column blather... yet I'm not bored at all... my life is "fuller" and "richer" in just day to day experience than it's ever been, and that's all right with me.
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Hi Thanks for these posts. I will read and respond to them, I just logged on to note my feeling this minute. Had a weekend where I realized how much I spent griping....my attitude has to change. There is no doubt that I am bitter, resentful and jealous about how life has turned out well for everyone else but me and left me broke, miserable, alone and unemployed/"working on my own projects". I also observed some of my own behavior this weekend and have realized that two "friends" really are not friends at all and I need to keep my distance.
Anyway, I made one last appointment with the T for tomorrow. I told him I wouldn't talk and I expected him to tell how to improve my life based on me, my situation and something more specific that what is in his books. He asked me to promise I would not "blow up". Not sure what that means, I dont angry and confront, I usually just get sit there annoyed. Anyway, we will see if he actually suggests stuff for me to think about or work on or whether he gets me to talk and then book more appointments. I will try hard not to talk, I always leave feeling like I dont get enough feedback from him. He needs to tell me how to resolve my situations - anything else is a waste of my time.
I will report back tomorrow.
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Well, okay,today I wake up slapping myself on the head, thinking "oh yeah" I already went through this. Yesterday, I made a list of what I call life tools and its about 20 things, attitude, fatih, mantras, habits, intentions, 3 issues/weaknesses, emotional triggers, forgiveness, standard answers etc, my sacred self definition etc. that are all tools I learned to clarify to get me through stuff. In my Ts book, he uses the phrase emotional roadblocks and when I woke up - I was realizing, oh yeah, this is all a LIE, my emotional roadblock is that I was told/taught something was wrong with me when nothing really is. Inherent worthiness is a given for us all. I feel I'm worthy but imperfect (as we all are). I dont have a problem sometime with worthiness - thats where the conflict is - I know I am worthy and deserving but also not perfect and haven't done everything right. When I focus on the imperfections, its the blockage to moving forward. Its like I worked hard but didnt win and winning is all that matters, so I feel bad or get bitter or dont get to be "qualified". Also, instead of working on the superficial stuff I missed, I'm left to believe Im not enough or worthy enough. I keep forgetting I've learned this lesson already, I forget and wander around with what is wrong with me, why isnt it working and then go back to therapy and I'm disappointed when I dont find an answer, because again, I look from the wrong perspective. yes, I need to grow and improve some things (like everyone else) but the myth of being unworthy is what trips that up.
My sacred self is defined as a kid of an Nmother who was lied to, deceived, misled, manipulated, controlled, betrayed and demeaned to the point I was robbed of self esteem and assertiveness, which is the very skill I need to recover. There is a pyramid here (my three weaknesses) - self esteem, assertiveness then autonomy at the top. Without those foundations, I was never able to be the person I needed to be to achieve my goals.
I knew alot of this last year actually, especially the sacred self part, but get tripped up with the emotional triggers (which also start bad habits like overeating and overspending and procrastinating) and its gotten worse over the last two years, despite my self awareness. I also have a little hormone imbalance (low progesterone) that also worsens anxiety, just making anything not going well feel much worse. That is currently being treated.
Anyway, so I feel a better today already and more prepared to hear what the T has to say. I think I'm going to have a great day and hope everyone else here does too!
Thanks Dr. G for this space, its a very helpful adjunct to the therapy and my own work.
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Ok, so the visit with the T was not a success. He is aware of my issues and concerns for sure but his advice was not very helpful and not likely something I can/will consider. Instead of feeling bad about the session, I guess I realized that I dont always have to take the advice I am given. It was more practical than I wanted and less psychological, but obviously thats what he thinks I need. Anyway, I'll move forward in my own way - I'm pretty sure that I can.
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oh yeah, this is all a LIE, my emotional roadblock is that I was told/taught something was wrong with me when nothing really is.
Ales, I go through the same "reminding" cycle about the "lie". It's as if the first time 30% of my brain "got it" and then got used to it. If felt like a huge change in me, because it was the first time anything like that had changed. The next reminder, maybe it was extended to another 10%... and then maybe it needs to become my "normal" at the cellular level... (as many times as I've had these "reminder" moments).
All part of the process. Shrug it off (give yourself some slack; no kicking or beating yourself up!) and keep on goin'.
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Thanks Phoenix - the lie is powerful. Its like its ingrained. When I keep searching for answers and meeting with people that I really dont need. I just need to be secure with myself inside. Its so simple and yet so hard for me sometimes. I can also see how many things were done backwards - ever heard the sating - are you doing things to be happy? WRONG ORDER. You do things that demonstrate you already ARE happy. Big difference. I do this with alot of things and I have to remember that!
I keep saying if I write a book, it will be very indepth and would include practical, psychological and spiritual solutions to each problem.
What I learned from my T experience is what I told him - I am always being pushed into a direction I dont like going in and then I wonder why I am always off course... doing it backwards!
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Can I also say that I find "understanding" or being "misunderstood" as an N wound? When I was in the T the other it occurs to me how much I need someone to understand and validate my desire for a family. I don't think all my sorority sisters who married between 25 and 30 ever sought understanding for being married. I think they were more self confident and more autonomous than me and just went out and did it. I get frustrated or feel frustrated when I'm not understood but I doubt very few autonomous and emotionall healthy people have this problem, they assume the problem is with the other person and just do as they wish.
I also think needing to be understood is a major source of frustration and victimization. Victims need someone to validate their feelings when they've been wronged and get victimized again when people don't.
Anyone agree/feel similar with me?
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Had a blowout with my NMother this morning. I really dug into with the insults and for the first time ever, I told her what I really thought of her which is that she is a selfish whore, yep, I said it, I said that she married my Dad for his money and never cared about us kids, as is evident with the abusive treatment and neglect she's shown over the years. Argument started because I am starting my own business venture and we already have financial ties that need to be changed and she started in with the undermining and insults, she thinks what I am doing is a scam and that Im not qualified etc. This coming from a 75 year old woman who has not worked since 1968, when I was born. She married my Dad and had children which she clearly never wanted to avoid having to work. Dad became a very successful physician and we inherited nothing when he died in 2000. She's been living quite well of his money for 12 years now and during that time, has lied to us over the years about her financial situation while undercutting us kids (42 and 44) so that we remain close to her.
I was wrong in what I said, I mean in the sense that it was cruel, but I meant it and I feel its true. She never got the education she wanted, so she controlled and manipulated us to have one, discouraged my dating life and sabotaged numerous of my relationships and derailed my plans to own a home. Anyway, I still have a lot of resentment with her that comes out in these arguments although I feel so much better afterwards. She cant hurt me anymore than she already has, there is no chance of us ever having a normal relationship and I dont care to, so I just say.do what I feel. She incredibly uncaring and completely emotionally immature. There were a couple of areas where I should not have said anything, but not sorry that I did.
Ugh. Nice way to start the weekend.
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Had a blowout with my NMother this morning. I really dug into with the insults and for the first time ever, I told her what I really thought of her which is that she is a selfish whore, yep, I said it, I said that she married my Dad for his money and never cared about us kids, as is evident with the abusive treatment and neglect she's shown over the years. Argument started because I am starting my own business venture and we already have financial ties that need to be changed and she started in with the undermining and insults, she thinks what I am doing is a scam and that Im not qualified etc. This coming from a 75 year old woman who has not worked since 1968, when I was born. She married my Dad and had children which she clearly never wanted to avoid having to work. Dad became a very successful physician and we inherited nothing when he died in 2000. She's been living quite well of his money for 12 years now and during that time, has lied to us over the years about her financial situation while undercutting us kids (42 and 44) so that we remain close to her.
I was wrong in what I said, I mean in the sense that it was cruel, but I meant it and I feel its true. She never got the education she wanted, so she controlled and manipulated us to have one, discouraged my dating life and sabotaged numerous of my relationships and derailed my plans to own a home. Anyway, I still have a lot of resentment with her that comes out in these arguments although I feel so much better afterwards. She cant hurt me anymore than she already has, there is no chance of us ever having a normal relationship and I dont care to, so I just say.do what I feel. She incredibly uncaring and completely emotionally immature. There were a couple of areas where I should not have said anything, but not sorry that I did.
Ugh. Nice way to start the weekend.
Given what she did to y'all....she deserved it!
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Since late March, I've been trying to forgive her and move on in my life, I was hoping that I had devoted six weeks to reading books and attending a couple of seminars, so the blow up was a real set-back for me and I feel bad about it. Not because of what I said, b/c that is true, even though books I've read say that asking for help to change your feelings can bring new levels of forgiveness and healing. I just feel bad because I thought I had developed more maturity and self control. Feelings justified, reaction was not.
I suppose I could also be cynical here - if she feels hurt (which she must since she hung up on me) she can blame herself, this is what NMothering taught me. Not a very mature attitude of course, but true.
In the practical sense, though, its stressing how important it is that I make better decisions, ones that promote NC, specifically, getting away from the financial bind I am in. Involving her in my new business venture out of necessity is NOT a good idea. I would be undermining myself by making this choice.
T really does suck, it was his suggestion that I talk with her.
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Now I am thinking I was wrong about the Tist. The confrontation happened because I refused to gloss over the issues, be passive and take an easy NO. I assert myself and push for the answers, and explain my feelings, even if it was not entirely constructive and I hurt her feelings (In the past, I always backed down before doing this but allowed her to hurt me). In the past, I just avoided the confrontation and this made no progress in what I was pursuing or in being more assertive with others as well. He was right to say "talk to her" - its just another very negative experience I had that I learned I can get through (aside from feeling a little bad a bout it) even if it appears to have made it worse.
I thought his advice was bad, I think remaining NC is very important - but I can see that there is something to learn in not avoiding her either.
The end conclusion about not involving her in the business I think is still the correct decision, but not out of avoidance, out of knowledge that asserting myself wont work with her. Does that make any sense at all? In other words, dont divorce as a passive avoidance tactic, try to work it out, and divorce if it cant be worked out.
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Hi Ales,
I found that talking to my family was like talking to a brick wall. In a 'normal' situation it's best to talk - sometimes other people don't know you're bothered by something they're doing and will try and do something about a problem if you let them know there is one. With my family, there is an expected code of behaviour and if you don't adhere to that, you're out. I tried repeatedly to talk to my mum and wrote letters trying to explain how I felt - basically asking her to see things from my point of view - and it just made her more angry and ramp up the behaviour. In the end, NC was the only way I could preserve my sanity. It was just too tiring to have to keep doing her dance. At least now you can say you tried. I blew up at my mum last year for the first time in my life and I loved it - it was the first time I hadn't felt scared of her and I let her have it. No, it isn't mature, or sensible, or what the books tell you to do, but you're human and you can't be expected to deliver your painful feelings in a neat and tidy way every time. Try not to give yourself a hard time over it. Regardless of whether or not she deserved it, you have probably got some stuff out of your system and, personally, I don't see why they should get away without a good tongue lashing after all the years of emotional abuse. It sounds to me like you're doing the right thing.
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Thanks two for your post. I agree with you completely. Just to be a little more clear - when she doesnt understand something, rather than admit she doesn't know the answer and doesn't understand something, she can't be honest about who she is, so she will throw out a comment to undermine me and take the attention off her and put it on me. Its all comes back to me being incompetent and unworthy. It took me YEARS to see that dynamic at work and how it affects all aspects of my life. SHe will also lie, present false facts and compare me to someone else to make me feel bad and inferior. My cousin for example is 28 and bought a home. The truth is her parents don't believe in renting so they took out a home equity loan to help with a down payment. I've been renting for over 20 years now, looking at why others who are my equals buy homes and feeling inferior because Nmom doesn't believe in helping kids owning homes and verbally discouraged me at 39, when I told her I had lost 40k which was my down payment, her response was "what do you need a home for". Instead of saying, "you are smart and can do it yourself" she will compare us, demean us and belittle us. Her response to my cousins new home was that she works harder than me (an attempt to make me feel inferior), and that quite simply is not true. I've worked full time for over 20 years and saved money several times over and my cousin got her masters at 26 and has been working full time for only two years in elementary education, recently got married and bought the home. There was barely enough time to afford both the home and the wedding - she got both financial help and encouragement. I got neither. Parents are not required to help their children and can simply decline, but to lie, demean and belittle and then manipulate to get us to remain close is abusive. She has done something liek this in regards to my job, finances, friends, relationships, everything is a manipulation with her.
You are right about not giving myself a hard time over it - I'm an adult and I know I am smarter than that, but without making excuses, my buttons got pushed. On the other hand, I always took the high road in the past, but ignoring it and letting it go, when in fact it affected me deeply, so can't apologize for the raw emotions behind what I said. I do feel better for being assertive about her undermining and my feelings towards her.
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Hi Ales, I understand exactly what you mean! I'm quite sure if you'd been buying homes since you were 19 that would have been wrong as well! My mum was more subtle about it, she'd talk about how brilliant other people were and then slag me off or just ignore me. For example, she talked endlessly about her friend's daughter's degree result but couldn't tell you what mine was, even though it was just as good!
Re the blow up - I think there are some similarities to what I am going through at the minute - there being a 'right' way to deal with being abused? We're human - everyone has a breaking point, plus you're in a situation where you haven't been able to voice anything for many years - it's bound to be a bit explosive when it finally comes out. Hugs for you xx
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I felt awful the one time I blew up at my Nmother, Ales.
It haunted and troubled me for a long time.
I eventually forgave myself.
I see it partly as the result of my family not knowing how to teach
us to deal with anger. Anger was so repressed (except for my brother's,
and that got plenty of behind-their-backs airspace).
Whatever the reasons or whoever's fault it was, I really yelled that day
at an old woman. Old is by definition vulnerable, and I should not have
done it. It went against my own values and that's what troubled me.
It messed with my sense of being a good person. I don't think I'll
ever see myself as quite the virtuous victim again. It was actually a
loss of innocence.
I do understand the exhaustion and the toxic buildup and the manipulation
that led to my losing it. But I wish I'd seen long before how I was in an
unhealthy situation with her and needed to get out.
In your case, one thread that weaves through is money. It was actually in
mine too, because a house represents security. It did matter what she
did with it, and how. Even though I told myself not to care, when I was
afraid, I did.
Is there a way you can untangle yourself from her money?
Hops
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Hi Hops,
Thanks for your post. I've blown up at my Mother more than once - actually NC has become a requirement because I just cant listen to her lies, nonsense, and belittling anymore. I actually want no further contact with her at all and she knows that. As I sad, anger justified, reaction not.
As for dealing with Anger, I feel somewhat the same, we are not allowed to angry, parents never do anything wrong and their motives cannot be questioned. I was sort of pushed and manipulated into being a doormat and I'm not anymore, which is her problem for having the expectation, not mine anymore.
Yelling at an old woman - well I did that too - and really only regret having to do it now. It seems immature, but it should have been said a long time ago. I can see two relationships right now, where I try to be nice hoping they will be nice on return because I so want the friendship, but I'm learning not to sacrifice my respect for it.
The money issue. The irony is that just when I decided I needed help, a short time after was when I discovered the Nism. So I got sucked in before I had a conscious knowledge of what was happening. I knew she was difficult and dreaded getting $$ involved but had no other options. I also thought since I had not inherited anything, maybe we'd settle some issues, but it only got worse. So, I'm working on fixing that problem in the short term. Problem is that she is always in the background and in order to completely eliminate the problem, it means I need to find a sufficient job, make my business venture work and then cut all ties. When I am independent, she finds ways to undermine me in other ways with money and so complete NC will have to be key.
Thanks for your post, Hops.
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Things have somewhat improved with the discussions, we've since had three conversations, including one visit where she brought my 17 year old nephew by to see me. My problem is that I see a pattern continuing with her that I need to end completely, as it will never change. I dont want her involved with my business any further, so the best option is to let the business venture issue runs its course, and find other employment to launch my business.
I think I need to start an accountability thread, as I am now doing and saying things I need to remember for the future, or I will step back into the same sinkhole. I should really call it a "stinkhole". But you all know what I am referring to. :)
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I noticed this morning that my April and May was gobbled up with Ncraziness. It was a very bad idea to have talked to her about the business. stuff. I also read several books on forgiveness and had attended a seminar on it, in hopes that maybe it was time to move on in a more spiritual way. In that really awful conversation I had with her last friday, I learned there is still alot under the surface that has not been helped by what I learned in the seminar and have been working on. One of the principals was to pray to have my feelings change toward the person, so that I could more easily forgive. Trust me, I would like to change my position and feelings toward her, if only because I know that having any bitterness, resentment or anger will stand in my way of a more peaceful life, but will likely need to get the financial break I need to break ties fully. Even then, she will find ways to migrate back in, but I can simply say - "working and I have no time for that"
Anyway, I could use all good wishes for new opportunities to come along and bring more independence/autonomy to my life. Thanks!
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NMom went to get advice on the business venture. She comes back with some suggestions that were irrelevant to me and when I told her she was undermining me, she tried to invalidate my feelings. (Basically, she wanted to arrange something where she would OWN everything and I would RENT from her, how crazy Nist is that?) She attempts to control and undermine at every opportunity. When I propose something that would help my independence (invest in a small business), she's completely opposed to it, without seeming to realize that shes fostering dependence. She can't let me go and uses the financial nonsense to control and manipulate.
I called my T and asked him to meet with her. Its being set up - I dont think he can really help and he's aware that I have low expectations, but she needs to go in. She's probably only interested in that because I told her that our relationship is OVER several times and I'm beginning to think she knows I mean it.
Anyway, as I said before, I need to find another job to finance myself and this business venture entirely on my own and KICK this N to the curb once and for all. I'm working hard at that but have not yet seen results.
To be continued.......
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NMom went to get advice on the business venture. She comes back with some suggestions that were irrelevant to me and when I told her she was undermining me, she tried to invalidate my feelings. (Basically, she wanted to arrange something where she would OWN everything and I would RENT from her, how crazy Nist is that?) She attempts to control and undermine at every opportunity. When I propose something that would help my independence (invest in a small business), she's completely opposed to it, without seeming to realize that shes fostering dependence. She can't let me go and uses the financial nonsense to control and manipulate.
I called my T and asked him to meet with her. Its being set up - I dont think he can really help and he's aware that I have low expectations, but she needs to go in. She's probably only interested in that because I told her that our relationship is OVER several times and I'm beginning to think she knows I mean it.
Anyway, as I said before, I need to find another job to finance myself and this business venture entirely on my own and KICK this N to the curb once and for all. I'm working hard at that but have not yet seen results.
To be continued.......
((((((((((((((((((((((Ales2))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Bones
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Thanks Bones.
Okay, here is the prescription I have set for myself:
Respect myself/Remain NC - both verbal and financial
Get a sufficient job - deal with my finances - finish my writing projects - buy a home
renew my faith (just the common kind that believes life WILL get better)
forgiveness (believing that my feelings can change, so I wont remain bitter for my losses)
have a resource list to seek support as needed (this board and 3 other sources)
manage my depression/anxiety/pms/insomnia stick with workout program and lose weight
renew my connections, hope to meet someone and have more fun, plan a vacation
I can read countless more books, learn more things, but none of those lessons end up being the right "prescription" for me. I'm posting this to be accountable and hope to see results soon.
Thanks to all.
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Thanks Bones.
Okay, here is the prescription I have set for myself:
Respect myself/Remain NC - both verbal and financial
Get a sufficient job - deal with my finances - finish my writing projects - buy a home
renew my faith (just the common kind that believes life WILL get better)
forgiveness (believing that my feelings can change, so I wont remain bitter for my losses)
have a resource list to seek support as needed (this board and 3 other sources)
manage my depression/anxiety/pms/insomnia stick with workout program and lose weight
renew my connections, hope to meet someone and have more fun, plan a vacation
I can read countless more books, learn more things, but none of those lessons end up being the right "prescription" for me. I'm posting this to be accountable and hope to see results soon.
Thanks to all.
I like your prescription!
Bones
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I'm blasting rule no#1 - remain NC. I booked an appointment for my NMom to meet my T. Despite what I complain about with him he is a good guy and smart - I dont have big expectations, I just need him to see her and maybe get more an idea of what I deal with and how I should handle her better. That said, I'm pretty sure he knows my intentions are to remain NC with her, not to reconcile in any way. Any work done might be for her to just get that idea, since I doubt she wont ever understand it, she will just have to accept it. I have no idea what he will tell her but maybe hearing something from him would be helpful.
Anyway, not sure if this was a good idea, I'm afraid it might backfire or stir up more trouble.
One thing I am noticing - being assertive is great and all that but there are some people who are prejudiced or stubborn to the extent that attempts at conlfict resolution cause more trouble and should just be avoided. Not sure that is the case here.
We shall see.
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ANGRY. VERY, VERY ANGRY :x :evil
T got my NM to pay for future sessions. :x
I feel used and controlled. I asked him to let me ask her for future sessions if I needed them. He was supposed to meet with her and get to know her, not get future sessions for me. In doing so, I feel controlled in the sense she is now dictating that course of action, rather than acknowledging she was asked to go to therapy and do her own work. Instead of working on herself, shes indicating I'm the one with the problem.
Thats the end of this. No more therapy from him. I feel like he's violated my trust.
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ANGRY. VERY, VERY ANGRY :x :evil
T got my NM to pay for future sessions. :x
I feel used and controlled. I asked him to let me ask her for future sessions if I needed them. He was supposed to meet with her and get to know her, not get future sessions for me. In doing so, I feel controlled in the sense she is now dictating that course of action, rather than acknowledging she was asked to go to therapy and do her own work. Instead of working on herself, shes indicating I'm the one with the problem.
That's the end of this. No more therapy from him. I feel like he's violated my trust.
He DID VIOLATE your trust! WHAT was he thinking?!?!?!?!? Apparently, all he saw was Dollar $ign$$$!!!!
Bones
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Hi Bones, thanks for the support. I posted prematurely as I had only one side of the story, but it actually got worse and I actually got hurt more than I expected. Anyway, I am HURT beyond belief and just want to go to bed and sleep it off.
As it turns out he told me she was very frail and has tremors. She duped him, she has no tremors. She's feigned illness before to avoid confict and criticism. Anyway, I was panicked when I heard him say that and it escalated into a very unpleasant disagreement. As it turns out he does not think I am "amenable to treatment" and thus my problems cant be solved. I was heartbroken. He never encouraged me and now I know why. My dark is dark enough to mean I cannot recover. Heartbroken. Its like Ive just been told by the fix it expert I cant be fixed.
It feels meaner and crueler than anything that has ever happened to me. I knew him for four years and this is all the help he can give me? Im hurting so bad right now. Ive had broken bones in a car accident that felt better than this.
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :evil: :cry: :cry: :cry: :evil: :cry: :cry: :cry: :evil: :cry: :cry: :cry: :evil:
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Hi Bones, thanks for the support. I posted prematurely as I had only one side of the story, but it actually got worse and I actually got hurt more than I expected. Anyway, I am HURT beyond belief and just want to go to bed and sleep it off.
As it turns out he told me she was very frail and has tremors. She duped him, she has no tremors. She's feigned illness before to avoid confict and criticism. Anyway, I was panicked when I heard him say that and it escalated into a very unpleasant disagreement. As it turns out he does not think I am "amenable to treatment" and thus my problems cant be solved. I was heartbroken. He never encouraged me and now I know why. My dark is dark enough to mean I cannot recover. Heartbroken. Its like Ive just been told by the fix it expert I cant be fixed.
It feels meaner and crueler than anything that has ever happened to me. I knew him for four years and this is all the help he can give me? Im hurting so bad right now. Ive had broken bones in a car accident that felt better than this.
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :evil: :cry: :cry: :cry: :evil: :cry: :cry: :cry: :evil: :cry: :cry: :cry: :evil:
I am VERY ANGRY that the therapist would BETRAY you that way!!!!! What an !@#$% for him to buy into that N!@#$'s B.S.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He is NOT worth anyone's time NOR money!!!!! That's why I want to find a therapist WHO GETS IT about NWomb-Donors and NSperm-Donors!!!!! Other therapists JUST DON'T GET IT and DO MORE HARM THAN GOOD when they buy into the N's B.S. and invalidate the scapegoat once again!!!! F**K THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
Bones
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My dark is dark enough to mean I cannot recover. Heartbroken. Its like Ive just been told by the fix it expert I cant be fixed.
Honey, you have been told that BUT that doesn't mean that it's true. You don't have to believe the opinion of someone who was that easily fooled by your Nmom... and you should not, without seriously questioning the validity of that opinion.
Apart from obviously questionable ethics, I am shocked that he doesn't see how he's being used to accomplish Nm's mission. Perhaps his philosophy of therapy is one of the ones that believes everything can be worked out simply by rational discussion. AS IF that were reality in the situations of a lot of us, here. It's incredibly difficult - impossible even - to try to reason with someone in total denial who blames everything on the scapegoat. They aren't being reasonable... so they won't listen to "reason".
He's the wrong therapist for you, Ales. He may not even be the "fix it expert" you expect him to be. Keep looking, though! They are out there. Maybe Nm will continue seeing him... and make him her target... and leave you alone. That sounds like a happy ending for you, right?
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Ales, this guy sounds like a conman. Is there a board or some kind of panel you can report him to?
No one is untreatable or unfixable. Some people are too smart to be conned (you) and some people don't like being found out (him). It sounds to me like he hasn't encouraged you because he can get more money out of you by keeping you 'broken'. Why is your mum being asked to pay for your therapy? Major control issues there. Your life - your situation. Take time out to re-group, collect your thoughts. Keep away from your mum and this man. I am so angry for you. How dare he do this.
This is not your fault. Take baby steps, focus on what you can work with yourself for now - eat well, swim, walk, read, take care of yourself. You are stronger than these people and better than them, and this situation. Keep your mum out of the loop. I know you have business dealings with her but limit it to only what is strictly necessary and strictly business. Look for ways of getting out of this financial situation with her. I'm horrified at what they've done to you.
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It is possible - frustrating, but possible - to be in business with FOO members. My bro doesn't engage in or participate in general business decisions, except on his own terms & in his own time (P-A), yet expects me to be available to him any/all times he's ready to turn his attention to the matter that's languished for months, or more often, dumping his personal problems on me. He hasn't pushed me over the edge into total sibling melt-down yet - but it's come really close a couple of times.
So close, that my financial team designed a way and nailed down all the details of how I could either get out of the dealings - or force him out. Ultimately, I decided to simply leave be for the time being. But I haven't forgotten my "escape hatch" -- my "when all else fails plan". I survive this arrangement with a minimum of stress by maintaining strong boundaries. Sometimes, I miss something or screw up and leave myself vulnerable... then I just sigh, lay out all the new facts, and try to pick a path through to the result I prefer (and know exactly what/how much I will compromise). It's just a mistake; it's not fatal.
It is not an uncommon situation for members of dysfunctional families to be in business together. It might even be a way to enable & sustain the dysfunction, for all I know. When the emotional dysfunction threatens the business function... then it's time to look at your options. I chose to do my homework ahead of time, and know exactly what options I might choose from, because I feel it's inevitable that the day will come when the business is threatened by the interpersonal dysfunction.
Even though part of me still keeps the door ajar for a miracle to happen, via hope.
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I dread going but have an appointment with the T today. This was made weeks ago while all the other stuff was happening and I kept it on my calendar. I feel very much done like there is no more progress to be made here. We never got to the discussion of personal responsibility, so thats what I am expecting. We'll see.
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:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
I was doing fine till the last five minutes of the session. Seems that NMom wants to check in with him to be sure I will be OK. I WILL NEVER BE OK! Its that simple.
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
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Ales, this all sounds very unprofessional, I think you need to stop using this therapist asap.
PS You will be okay - but it sounds like you need your mum and this T out of your life at this point for that to happen xx
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Thanks Two and everyone else for their posts.
I am not sure exactly what to do. I dont think my problems will be solved with further therapy - and dont think hers will either. My thought was just that maybe he might be able to explain something I could not and maybe hearing it from a professional would give credibility and meaning to my feelings that she wont accept from me. I also thought the T would benefit from seeing what I deal with. Seems like it did, but still not sure that changes anything.
I guess I can also say I tried everything I could and I just want to be at peace once and for all.
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Ales, I am so sorry for all the fear and pain you're going through.
I swear, I truly believe the most revelatory thing to me about living through, enduring emotions of such rollercoasterishness, obsession, and at times despair...and reaching the grizzled age of 62, is that living through it, you DO come to feel differently. The old cliche about time? It's true.
This can heal.
I think you are intensely focused on having someone outside of yourself say/do/demonstrate the just-right thing that will make you feel okay.
But nobody can. Except you, and the capacity to do that (which you have lost faith in) is NOT GONE.
It is still inside you. It is. You actually DO have everything you need to heal and learn and find hope and happiness.
it is not a special club that everybody has the key to except Ales. It is a birthright, and you do have the key. You just are so busy hitting (yourself) with your fists that you can't relax enough to recognize there is a key in your palm.
No magic key. Just, the plain old human-being-can-heal key. Most of us, except the psychotic, have one too. My advice would be to not only trust the therapy as much as feels right (even if you change therapists)...but to also search for some other settings that are healing. For me, it's UUisn. For others, it's dance. Massage. Woo-woo work. Creativity. Volunteering. Rocking babies in a NICU.
Some combination of meaningful actions that actually transform your brain, and slowwwly change your life.
I send you much support and hope. Panic, despair, and declarations of hopelessness are symptoms. They're not the truth. And they're not more real than finding reasons to engage in life, and to hope. They're just habits.
love to you,
Hops