Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board

Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Twoapenny on December 13, 2019, 03:54:41 AM

Title: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on December 13, 2019, 03:54:41 AM
Good morning, my 'over the pond' friends :)

Yesterday was son's last day at college.  I can't tell you the relief I felt at knowing that phase is now behind us and we are moving forward.  I am keen to start putting my energy into creating a life I do want, instead of tolerating one that I don't.

So - I thought a new thread, for the new year, would be appropriate.  My aims for 2020 are:

Set up small business/home based self employment that allows me to continue to home educate son whilst earning a living.

Pay off debts and replenish savings.

Move to a commune.  Or somewhere else if that is more appropriate :)

It sounds very simple when written down like that :)  But I have good ideas whirring round in my head, the library is proving to be a treasure trove of useful books, a friend is currently working from home and has sent me some information to have a look through.  Son and I can focus on building our days as we want them, making sure we both get enough time to keep ourselves healthy and well and we can start moving forward to our new life.  I'm building up contacts online; just useful websites, groups and pages that have useful information and people.  I do feel like I have options in front of me now, and I didn't feel like that for a long time.  So I am hopeful for the future.

What is everyone else hoping for or working towards in 2020? xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on December 13, 2019, 03:15:49 PM
Oh, Tupp!  I'm looking forward to your next chapter too!

HEAR, HEAR to NO MORE DREAD!  I'm right there with'ya, sister! 

I know you'll work a new plan, research it, hone it and make it happen bc that's what you do: )

Lighter



Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on December 13, 2019, 03:45:09 PM
Hi Tupp,
I admire your plan and hope you will enjoy it...pragmatic, one step at a time goals sound like they will really support you as you go forward. I hope your 2020 is peaceful, low on adrenaline, and includes new good people in your life.

I don't have a plan or any resolutions. They inevitably backfire. I do have some general goals I will go about one way or another, or I won't if I sabotage myself. (To me, even listing goals can feed a scary self-sabotage.) I just want instead to express them as directions I want to go in, rather than tasks to accomplish.

Those are:
Health -- exercise more consistently and be more consistently mindful about not just what I eat, but portions

Writing -- recommit to my novel and my poetry; find my inner "just do it"

Relationship -- stay involved but be wary of caretaking and enmeshment

That's it. Travel is not a goal of mine but more M's. I'll enjoy it and am grateful for the opportunities but don't want to add to it at this point. I think the climate can't stand a lot more recreational flying so I want to focus more on weekends or daytrips that will be stimulating but not all-consuming. Costa Rica is about his family so I'm happy to go twice a year. For the same reason we'll go to CA at least twice/year. And I can't imagine M being content without Europe at least once. So that's five big trips/year which for me is a lot and which is about a third to a half of his usual.

One thing that MAY happen in 2020 is us taking things to new levels. (Home and marriage). I think that's more likely not going to happen for another year or two. I think we have some solid work to do together in therapy before we get there.

In the meantime I want to stay present, work on calm and peace and health.

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on December 15, 2019, 04:09:56 AM
Thank you, both :)

Hops, I think it very sensible to have directions rather than tasks, and yours are all sensible directions, too :)  The travel sounds fun, although tiring as well!  But tiredness from having fun is a different kind of tiredness and a much more tolerable one (or it is for me, anyway).  I think the therapy work before big commitments is very sensible and will save/avoid many problems in the future that may occur if rushing in is the way forward.  You are a wise owl :)

Lighter, I have found an EMDR person in town - easy to get to, son can sit in the waiting room, appointment fees are manageable and I think I'd probably go once a fortnight rather than weekly.  I'm planning to use her once I start going through all that paperwork, to work on the issues that come up.  I think fortnightly is best as I can't see myself whizzing through it.  I'm envisaging lots of stopping and starting and lots of self care at the same time.  I feel better knowing I can get some practical support to deal with it all.

In other news, the election result is in here and it's devastating for us.  The same party have been re-elected, despite the horrors they have unleashed on the disabled community over the last decade and their consistent refusal to fund even a basic level of support for people.  So there will be no respite here from the lack of income or services and we will have to continue to muddle through.  I was really hoping for a change, to at least have some hope that things would get easier.  I feel very heavy hearted now (and am avoiding social media because the racism, homophobia, sexism and all the other kinds of hideousness is just rife.  Even the simplest comment or statement is met with a barrage of hate and abuse).  Utterly vile and I can see no option other than to avoid it all and keep focusing on looking after myself and son.

But - onwards.  Christmas prep is more or less done.  I don't do a huge amount but the bits I do buy have been posted off and son's stuff is ordered and should be here next week.  I did a big online food shop last week to last us the month so will only need to pop out for fresh fruit and veg so hopefully can avoid the supermarkets now and the Christmas madness.

I do feel very tired and low but I think it might be the relief of feeling that it's all over.  The stress levels have been high and it's starting to leave me now, so I'm focusing on looking after myself well.  House cleaning today, and catching up on laundry and general 'at home' bits and pieces.  We've got some nice things organised for next week, then it's Christmas and then that's it!  Last bits of paperwork to sort out (probably after Christmas now) and then we can really focus on what we do next.  I've been looking at intentional communities again and there are a lot about, so I think something suitable will come up.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on December 15, 2019, 11:59:55 AM
Heartfelt sympathies about Boris and how all that affects you and son, Tupp. I'm crushed for you and the short-sighted U.K. voters. I can't fathom how a country that could be part of a united Europe thinks its people will be happy without that robust partnership, warts and all.

Then again, it's unfathomable over here, too. Nationalism and isolationism are naive and very scary substitutes for belonging to something bigger than oneself. The answer has become fake news and confused notions about patriotism, when it should be community and belonging. Anyway, no more politics (here) from me.

Just like "Keep calm and carry on" I am inspired by the one-way you deal with it:
ONWARD.

Thanks, Tupp. As ever, you inspire me.

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on December 15, 2019, 01:06:34 PM
Heartfelt sympathies about Boris and how all that affects you and son, Tupp. I'm crushed for you and the short-sighted U.K. voters. I can't fathom how a country that could be part of a united Europe thinks its people will be happy without that robust partnership, warts and all.

Then again, it's unfathomable over here, too. Nationalism and isolationism are naive and very scary substitutes for belonging to something bigger than oneself. The answer has become fake news and confused notions about patriotism, when it should be community and belonging. Anyway, no more politics (here) from me.

Just like "Keep calm and carry on" I am inspired by the one-way you deal with it:
ONWARD.

Thanks, Tupp. As ever, you inspire me.

Hugs
Hops

I hear ya, Hops, but I think a lot of people here would be happier with a Britain more like it was in the 1950's - mostly white faces and foreigners knew their place.  There are a lot of people who just don't like people from other countries - they don't mind Americans, Canadians or Australians because they're 'like us' but they don't like different languages, cultures, accents and so on.  I always wanted to travel and didn't, so the fact that the world has come to me and I can experience different religions, cultures, languages and so on on my doorstep is a big plus for me.  But not everyone feels that way and so there we are.

 There is a lot of misinformation out there.  Newspaper stories only tell negatives and of course there are undesirables coming to the country, as there are undesirables who were born here.  But the majority of immigrant workers are exactly that, workers, doing jobs we can't or won't do and doing what most of us want - trying to better themselves and give their kids or future kids a better start than they had.  Which I can identify with so strongly as that's exactly what I've always tried to do with son.  I think the Utopia many are expecting is not going to unfold, simply because much of what has been in the papers hasn't given an accurate overview.  Instead of ridding us of a strong criminal and workshy element, I think it's going to rid us of a good workforce and people are going to feel the pinch.  Not to mention all the trade deals - there are stories all over the internet from business owners, big and small, who are already experiencing problems because of the uncertainty of what would happen when we leave.  People can't prepare because they don't know what, if anything, will be set up.  So overseas clients aren't putting in orders, because they need the security.  Similarly British people in EU countries are finding it harder to get work, because their potential employers don't know what will happen with visas and so on, so it's less hassle for them to hire someone they know can still do the job in a year's time.  And so on and so on.  In a way son and I are well prepared, because we've been dealing with a lack of everything for the last ten years, but I think a lot of people are going to feel the pinch very soon and I don't think they're expecting it.

But anyway, enough of all that :)  Onwards is the only way, isn't it?  I've got you guys, for which I'm very grateful.  My left wing friends here are crushed, I think we were all astounded at the result so it's been a quiet weekend but people will rally and help each other out and that's as much as we can all do, I think.  It's interesting to me how it's often people who have the least who are willing to share.  But moving forward - I did some house cleaning today, found a very good yoga video that quieted my awful, anxious, butterfly chest that I've been struggling with all day in a matter of minutes (definitely adding that one to the list!), dinner is marinating in the fridge and son is watching Mr Bean :)  Lol, the world falls apart and life inside the house is the same as any other day :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on December 15, 2019, 01:21:04 PM
ONWARD!

Mr. Bean for PM!

(And now I am tiptoeing directly out of politics here. Will try to hold that boundary.)

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on December 15, 2019, 08:56:55 PM
Tupp:

I'm so glad you found an EMDR practitioner!  YES! 

What what what do I want to say.....
be fearless. 

Lean into it, and trust yourself.   

Hold HUGE compassion and zero judgment.   


Condolences on election results.  The greed, hatred, and xenophobia are heartbreaking.  Stay away from the news if that feels right... right now self-care is so important, ((Deserving One.))

Lighter

   
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on December 17, 2019, 02:17:56 AM
Thanks, both :)  Yes, Hops, Mr Bean for PM!  Lol, at least he would make everyone laugh :)  Son finds him hysterical, he was watching a Christmas special where he gets his head stuck in a turkey and I thought he was going to stop breathing, he was laughing so hard :)

Lighter, thank you, am staying away from anything that doesn't lift at the moment and have changed settings on social media so that I can only see posts from left wing friends at the moment, who are all busy organising help the homeless events and fetching elderly people to Christmas lunches.  Am thinking we may sign up to help out somewhere next year; I've always worried that it would be too much for son, plus there are often health and safety insurance issues about under 18s in public kitchens and so on, but I think next year he would be okay for it and he would be old enough as well.  We'll see.

I wanted to ask your advice about the EMDR.  I currently have 32 Lever Arch and box files in my sitting room, all to do with the hideousness that's gone on over the years.  Each incident has a separate box or file, with some incidents taking up several boxes as they generated so much hideousness.  My plan is to work through each incident, writing about it and working through what comes up, with the EMDR lady but also by reading and re-reading helpful books about abuse patterns and corruption in local authority (and no doubt with you guys on here).  What I want to have at the end of it is something coherent, that examines everything we've been put through and is, at the very least, a comprehensive summary that I can tuck easily onto a book shelf so that I still have a record after I've scanned and shredded all the paperwork.  If it is something worth publishing and that might help other people in a similar situation that would be great, but if not, it's a personal achievement, a sort of self analysis of an awful situation spanning almost two decades.

What I was planning to do was to deal with the least troublesome incidents first.  For example, the box I've selected to start with is relating to benefit tribunals (where we had to go to a hearing to ask for a benefit decision to be checked because I thought they'd got it wrong).  There isn't much attached to it - some anxiety because I'd never done it before, some frustration that you have to fight for basic support, further frustration that they'd rather spend thousands fighting you over the benefit instead of following the law and giving you what you're entitled to, as it costs less anyway.  But it's minimal, on a scale of 1 to 10 it would barely score a one.  I can read through it and only experience mild sensations which are quickly forgotten.

My question is, do you think starting with the easiest boxes is the right approach?  My thinking was that if I start with the easier stuff I can (a) get myself into a bit of a routine and rhythm with it and (b) work out the lesser feelings relatively easily which might mean that when we get to the bigger stuff it's not as big and i'll be much more practised at, so it will be a bit easier to deal with?  Does that sound sensible to you or have you found that it doesn't work out like that?  Thank you in advance :)

And now I have another question, for all of you, as you all know me better than anyone else does.

I had an email last night, from a guy who I often think of as 'the one that got away'.  There have been several times over the years that we've got together, it's looked like it's going somewhere and then one or other of us has backed off.  We have similar upbringing situations and that can be both a blessing and a curse, as you all know.

Anyway - he is living two streets away from where I used to live.  I'd been thinking during the day about how much I miss my flat and again lamenting that I've moved and wishing that I hadn't.  When I heard that he was living so close, I just got this image in my head of being sat in my flat, on Christmas Day, with him, and I just burst into tears.

I know it doesn't mean anything.  The fact that he's living there doesn't mean we'd have got together, or that if we were together we'd be happy, or that I'd be happy him being close by but with someone else.  I know that, if we hadn't moved, I would still be thinking that we'd have been happier if we'd moved away, that son would have been happier in college, I'd still be anxious about mum driving by, I'd still be resentful of friends who didn't visit.  I know all of that and I get it, but it also made me realise how I really just want to be happy and how I feel that, every time I try to change my situation so that I am happy, it doesn't work out.  I do try to be happy with what I have and focus on good things (there is a lot that I am grateful for and I'm particularly appreciative of all of you) but it just seems to elude me in a way that doesn't seem to affect so many others.

So my question is, can you see where I'm going wrong?  From all of my posts on here and the endless ramblings of my mind, can you see where I get the decisions wrong and what I can change?  Son is about to have his seventeenth Christmas with still only me as his family and I do wonder why I still don't have a strong phamily around me when I've worked so hard on myself and to create a good life for him.  I do feel like I repel rather than attract people.  Can you see any patterns that I'm missing?  I would really appreciate the feedback, even if it's something that I don't want to hear :)

Thank you in advance.  The cat has just attacked a reflection of herself in a Christmas tree bauble and pulled the whole tree over so my normal day has begun and I am off to attend to it.  Lol xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on December 17, 2019, 12:14:34 PM
Dear, dear (((((Tupp)))).

Hurts my heart to think of you bursting into tears of loneliness. I do think that's what it is.

Remember once not too long ago, you mentioned that you may be mildly on the spectrum? Do you think it's possible that when you interact, you are logical about it in a way that folks without that "superpower" are not? And that doing things "right" socially (according to much mental effort and rehearsal) is difficult at times? It MIGHT be that you are reacting to people according to an internal script that leaves you detached a bit, from the little cues that might guide you in the present moment with people?

This is all speculation and may be way off the mark. "They" always talk about "social cues" for folks who are not completely neurotypical. And it often strikes me as heartbreaking that some of the best people in the world (Tupp, go look in mirror) don't necessarily interact socially with ease and relaxation though NO fault of their own, and who, if one gets to know them, can be the most honest, caring, loyal and reliable friends in one's world.

As much of an extroverted blabbermouth as I am, it is still difficult for me to form close friendships, particularly with women. I'm not on the spectrum, but in the past I've been so driven to heal inner damage from bullying by girls (think: packs of wolves at a beagle) ... that I've been too "desperate." I've lost a few female friends over the years and it hurt me more than romantic breakups with men did. But graaaaaaaaaaaadaully, I learned what I was doing/feeling/and why.

The only thing that made things better for me was finding friends in a benign context (like my uber-liberal church that loves agnostics, atheists, humanists, atypical/disabled, whatever one is). Once there, and once I'd gotten to know a few people through group activities, some real friendships did grow that are the light of my life now. A handfull is enough and I am so grateful for them.

The other thing that made things better was just toughing it out during many years when I felt that acute loneliness and continuing to read and go to T and struggle (it WAS a struggle) to experience what self-love felt like. Plonking myself down at church each week (even though the place is kind of messed up right now), actually did build me a sense of phamily. The truth is, it took several years to get started. One-offs or start-and-stop involvements just never did it. Do you sing? Choir practice is one "phamily" people in it seem to love. They get close for years....

One day I had an epiphany about reciprocity in friendship that I mentioned here before. I wound up telling a woman I'd been feeling quite hurt about (she was always friendly and affectionate to me when we saw each other for "group" things and came to visit a couple times when I was so stressed over family) but she lived far out of town. Then moved five minutes from me, and I was so excited that of course we'd be "regular friends" now. She never called. Never invited me up the hill to see her new place. But I liked her. So one day when she arrived early for the covenant group, I just said, You know, I've always had a hard time forming friendships with women because of childhood baggage, and I realized recently that with you, I've been carrying around some hurt because I wanted to be friend-friends and not just group-activity friends. I think what happened was that I wanted a closer friendship and was feeling hurt about it, because I made it up in my head. You are wonderful and very kind to me, but I wasn't basing my friendship fantasy on something reciprocal. You have a stable group of friends and I think I've realized you're just not looking for another close one. She was a little startled but not offended, listened to me, and just accepted what I said about myself. Because I didn't ask for or expect her to do anything, I'd just wanted to tell her about a growth process I'd been through inside. I was telling her: I'm okay with this reality. And oddly enough, even though we still don't see each other one-on-one outside of that group, I think we feel more comfortable around each other than we ever did before. I'm still very fond of her; I just realize that she has emotional limits of her own.

Only thing I can say from knowing you in writing, is that perhaps you try so hard that it's absolutely crushing when it doesn't manifest. I have been there. For a long time, the social GROUP things I'd do were just all I had...because all the wishing in the world for close phamily didn't make it so. I even used group things for a time as a kind of anesthetic, or bandage over the wound of isolation. It didn't fix everything to sit in the sanctuary and watch dust motes in a sunbeam. But eventually it did feel that the pew itself, and the light, and the piano and choir, were friends in an odd way. Because I went repeatedly for long enough that it became a home-extension, another place in my life that was home...just from the repetition of it.

I can't imagine how difficult it may be for you to get out regularly to something like that if son isn't able to sit quietly through a service (would he be able to, with the headphones)? But that's just my own experience.

The other thing that crosses my mind (I have no idea about its existence or availability) might be, (because if you are neuro-atypical it's surely mildly so) would be to wonder whether there's any kind of organization for families of neuro-atypical kids like your son. Surely, some of those parents your own age might understand and respond to you as they understand how to  read the "code" of someone who's somewhere on the spectrum, and friendships might form. One never knows but you know I always think of you in accepting group settings....

I can imagine that parents of younger kids than your son would be awed and pleased to get to know you, because your sanity and wisdom about all you've battled through for him would give them courage for their own situations. I dunno, but I can see you being a valuable friend to parents of such kids.

Back to my first point, though, is to never ever stop the process of learning to genuinely love and respect yourself.

This blast of loneliness is so understandable and don't forget, IT'S THE FREAKING HOLIDAYS. That's when absence of family or phamily is more acute than any other time of year. And it's NOT your "fault."

It's like weather, and this is the worst. If I were so lucky as to live nearby, I'd be in your flat right now with the chamomile. But I'd bring the rum, goes well...

This too shall pass, good Tupp.

With love to you, hon, and a huge hug (if you like hugs),
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on December 17, 2019, 07:29:58 PM
Tupp:

About the files, and making sense of them.  I get that.  I've kept my own.... and I'm not sure why.  The interesting thing, for me now, is I'm seeing possibilities I couldn't see before.  Not good or bad, just new and more creative.  It feels like working through some of the hardest stuff opened up space for.....
more.  More creativity.  More options. 

More means less focus on all the unprocessed things tapping us on the shoulder, asking for attention.  We tend to them, they process, and get filed in historic files.  It frees up space in the brain, our ability to process improves, and starts firing on all cylinders.  I hope you keep a journal, Tupp. 

To your question.... starting with the easier files makes sense to me.  Once you begin processing you might find you're less reactive, or not reacting at all when you get to them. 

I sent you an IM, bc I couldn't STOP responding to your other questions.  There's lots of information, but the important bit is... the answers aren't outside you.  The T wil help you remember who you are... whole just as you are.  No need for changing or doing or fearing.  All the crud others installed over your lovely newborn self will fall away..... however that looks for you.... it's going to happen.

I so believe in you, ((Tupp.))

Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on December 19, 2019, 04:45:14 PM
Dear, dear (((((Tupp)))).

Hurts my heart to think of you bursting into tears of loneliness. I do think that's what it is.

Remember once not too long ago, you mentioned that you may be mildly on the spectrum? Do you think it's possible that when you interact, you are logical about it in a way that folks without that "superpower" are not? And that doing things "right" socially (according to much mental effort and rehearsal) is difficult at times? It MIGHT be that you are reacting to people according to an internal script that leaves you detached a bit, from the little cues that might guide you in the present moment with people?

This is all speculation and may be way off the mark. "They" always talk about "social cues" for folks who are not completely neurotypical. And it often strikes me as heartbreaking that some of the best people in the world (Tupp, go look in mirror) don't necessarily interact socially with ease and relaxation though NO fault of their own, and who, if one gets to know them, can be the most honest, caring, loyal and reliable friends in one's world.

As much of an extroverted blabbermouth as I am, it is still difficult for me to form close friendships, particularly with women. I'm not on the spectrum, but in the past I've been so driven to heal inner damage from bullying by girls (think: packs of wolves at a beagle) ... that I've been too "desperate." I've lost a few female friends over the years and it hurt me more than romantic breakups with men did. But graaaaaaaaaaaadaully, I learned what I was doing/feeling/and why.

The only thing that made things better for me was finding friends in a benign context (like my uber-liberal church that loves agnostics, atheists, humanists, atypical/disabled, whatever one is). Once there, and once I'd gotten to know a few people through group activities, some real friendships did grow that are the light of my life now. A handfull is enough and I am so grateful for them.

The other thing that made things better was just toughing it out during many years when I felt that acute loneliness and continuing to read and go to T and struggle (it WAS a struggle) to experience what self-love felt like. Plonking myself down at church each week (even though the place is kind of messed up right now), actually did build me a sense of phamily. The truth is, it took several years to get started. One-offs or start-and-stop involvements just never did it. Do you sing? Choir practice is one "phamily" people in it seem to love. They get close for years....

One day I had an epiphany about reciprocity in friendship that I mentioned here before. I wound up telling a woman I'd been feeling quite hurt about (she was always friendly and affectionate to me when we saw each other for "group" things and came to visit a couple times when I was so stressed over family) but she lived far out of town. Then moved five minutes from me, and I was so excited that of course we'd be "regular friends" now. She never called. Never invited me up the hill to see her new place. But I liked her. So one day when she arrived early for the covenant group, I just said, You know, I've always had a hard time forming friendships with women because of childhood baggage, and I realized recently that with you, I've been carrying around some hurt because I wanted to be friend-friends and not just group-activity friends. I think what happened was that I wanted a closer friendship and was feeling hurt about it, because I made it up in my head. You are wonderful and very kind to me, but I wasn't basing my friendship fantasy on something reciprocal. You have a stable group of friends and I think I've realized you're just not looking for another close one. She was a little startled but not offended, listened to me, and just accepted what I said about myself. Because I didn't ask for or expect her to do anything, I'd just wanted to tell her about a growth process I'd been through inside. I was telling her: I'm okay with this reality. And oddly enough, even though we still don't see each other one-on-one outside of that group, I think we feel more comfortable around each other than we ever did before. I'm still very fond of her; I just realize that she has emotional limits of her own.

Only thing I can say from knowing you in writing, is that perhaps you try so hard that it's absolutely crushing when it doesn't manifest. I have been there. For a long time, the social GROUP things I'd do were just all I had...because all the wishing in the world for close phamily didn't make it so. I even used group things for a time as a kind of anesthetic, or bandage over the wound of isolation. It didn't fix everything to sit in the sanctuary and watch dust motes in a sunbeam. But eventually it did feel that the pew itself, and the light, and the piano and choir, were friends in an odd way. Because I went repeatedly for long enough that it became a home-extension, another place in my life that was home...just from the repetition of it.

I can't imagine how difficult it may be for you to get out regularly to something like that if son isn't able to sit quietly through a service (would he be able to, with the headphones)? But that's just my own experience.

The other thing that crosses my mind (I have no idea about its existence or availability) might be, (because if you are neuro-atypical it's surely mildly so) would be to wonder whether there's any kind of organization for families of neuro-atypical kids like your son. Surely, some of those parents your own age might understand and respond to you as they understand how to  read the "code" of someone who's somewhere on the spectrum, and friendships might form. One never knows but you know I always think of you in accepting group settings....

I can imagine that parents of younger kids than your son would be awed and pleased to get to know you, because your sanity and wisdom about all you've battled through for him would give them courage for their own situations. I dunno, but I can see you being a valuable friend to parents of such kids.

Back to my first point, though, is to never ever stop the process of learning to genuinely love and respect yourself.

This blast of loneliness is so understandable and don't forget, IT'S THE FREAKING HOLIDAYS. That's when absence of family or phamily is more acute than any other time of year. And it's NOT your "fault."

It's like weather, and this is the worst. If I were so lucky as to live nearby, I'd be in your flat right now with the chamomile. But I'd bring the rum, goes well...

This too shall pass, good Tupp.

With love to you, hon, and a huge hug (if you like hugs),
Hops

Thanks, Hops, I really do appreciate you taking the time and trouble to write all of that down.

Yes, definitely tears of loneliness; I've been crying on and off all day today.  It is this time of year; the lack of sunlight makes me low, despite my best efforts to counteract it, and then all the Christmas stuff as well.  Plus the election result.  A former neighbour wrote to tell me she's just lost her husband, a friend is coming up to her second Christmas without her son, who took his own life, and my auntie emailed me to let me know my uncle is losing his cancer battle and isn't thought to have long left now.  So it's been a bit of a week and sometimes it does just all bubble up and over and becomes too much.  I am trying to just go with the feelings and not change or repress them too much, without wallowing for too long as I don't think that helps, either.

I do remember you saying about the friend who didn't want to be as close as you did and I do think that's part of it with me.  I think as well possibly the autism (or not, I'm still not sure!) means I find it hard to understand or recognise that a lot of people spend time with people just because they do.  Not because it means a huge amount to them or they're particularly dazzled by the friendship or endlessly fascinated by them but just because they have a bit of time to fill.  Whereas I do tend to only spend time with people because I really want to - because I find it tiring and I don't see the point to it otherwise - I'd rather read a book than spend time with someone I'm not really that keen on.  So I think that's partly why I feel so baffled when people I've seen or spoken to regularly for ten, fifteen, twenty years just vanish from my life.  I think the reciprocity thing is difficult for me as well, and I know we've spoken about that before.  I got a card from a friend this morning that said she hopes to see more of me in 2020 and all I could think was, does that mean you'll be making more effort?  Because I'm all in at 100% and can't do anymore.  And that's something I struggle with as well.  But I will just have to keep working on it and changing my perceptions and assumptions about how things are, I think.  It does remind me of a time I bumped into someone I went to school with.  She was endlessly and relentlessly bullied throughout school and was diagnosed autistic later on in life.  She introduced me to her kids as her best friend at school and it broke my heart because I was just one of the few that didn't try to destroy her.  But for her it was enough to see it so differently and I feel a bit like that's what I'm like now - just reading too much into things and not realising that, for other people, it just isn't a big deal.

Groups are difficult because both son and I have fluctuating health problems so it's not always easy to get along each time, but I did realise today that now college is over with, son and I can get back to our old routine of home and school stuff during the day, and activities at night.  That suited us both better and we can build up slowly again - cinema one night, swimming another, bowling another.  There's still a lot around here that we haven't done because he's been too tired, so I think we can start to build up a bit more of a social life that way.  They've also just published their events at the IT suite at the library for next month and there's loads of stuff son would like - coding, laser cutting, go pro photography and so on.  So we can work on things at home that link to each workshop and then go in and join the group.  He'll really enjoy that and get so much more out of it than he was getting at college.  So I think that will help.

Thank you, Hops, yes, bring the rum :)  Lol xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on December 19, 2019, 04:48:24 PM
Tupp:

About the files, and making sense of them.  I get that.  I've kept my own.... and I'm not sure why.  The interesting thing, for me now, is I'm seeing possibilities I couldn't see before.  Not good or bad, just new and more creative.  It feels like working through some of the hardest stuff opened up space for.....
more.  More creativity.  More options. 

More means less focus on all the unprocessed things tapping us on the shoulder, asking for attention.  We tend to them, they process, and get filed in historic files.  It frees up space in the brain, our ability to process improves, and starts firing on all cylinders.  I hope you keep a journal, Tupp. 

To your question.... starting with the easier files makes sense to me.  Once you begin processing you might find you're less reactive, or not reacting at all when you get to them. 

I sent you an IM, bc I couldn't STOP responding to your other questions.  There's lots of information, but the important bit is... the answers aren't outside you.  The T wil help you remember who you are... whole just as you are.  No need for changing or doing or fearing.  All the crud others installed over your lovely newborn self will fall away..... however that looks for you.... it's going to happen.

I so believe in you, ((Tupp.))

Lighter

Lighter, thank you so much, I've just seen the things you've sent, thank you, I will have a good read through over the next few days.  You are so kind.  Thank you for the advice re the EMDR as well; it's reassuring to know that starting small sounds like a good plan to you, too.  I was looking at all the files today and wondering how I'd feel when they're all gone.  I just pictured myself taking all the empty files and the bookcase to the charity shop and just having a space there.  It felt really good.  Thank you again, I will read through.  I'm looking forward to getting rid of the crud :)  Lol xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on December 19, 2019, 06:07:00 PM
Imagine how it will feel to touch and look at the files, as you finish dealing with them,  and feel absolutely nothing, Tupp: )

Wouldn't that be amazing?

Lighter



Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on December 20, 2019, 12:52:01 AM
Imagine how it will feel to touch and look at the files, as you finish dealing with them,  and feel absolutely nothing, Tupp: )

Wouldn't that be amazing?

Lighter

Lighter, do you know what, I realised I can't even imagine looking at those files - or thinking about what happened, or bumping in to any of the people involved, or even hearing about something similar happening to someone else - and feeling nothing.  There's such a lump in my heart attached to everything that's gone on for so long now that to not have that there - I feel like I'll just float up into the clouds and drift around over everyone else's heads because there'll just be nothing to weigh me down anymore :)  Apart from mince pies, obviously :)

I am trying really hard to shift my thinking from what/who I don't have and what I'm missing, to the opportunities that we have in front of us now.  We've got time - oh my days, we've got time, and I've felt so lacking in that for so long now.  I can build a good programme up for son to follow at home again.  We can go out in the evenings, get back into our activities, get him away from the 'learning disabilities/gardening/art and craft/play on the computer' stuff that everyone seems to think is what he should be doing, even though he doesn't want to.  I've got the opportunity to look for a new business idea and create something that we both enjoy and make money from - that's a huge bonus.  And I've got these opportunities now to look at different living situations, whether it's different places or with different people - and find something new that works for us.  And yes, I'm looking forward to getting on with the EMDR in the New Year and imagining one neat book instead of 32 files, and a big burning ceremony (or shredding ceremony, I'm not sure which!  shredding is easier where we are but burning feels a lot more satisfying).  And as I wrote that I got an image of going up to my friend's place, back where we used to live.  She has a big garden, she knows what went on over the years and helped me with some of it and she would be up for a fire ceremony and is in an isolated enough spot that we could burn all of it without the smoke blowing over anyone's washing.  That would be a fun road trip.  xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on December 20, 2019, 09:44:30 AM
I've emailed the EMDR lady today to arrange an appointment for the new year.  I have felt so stressed and anxious today, completely out of control.  I am going to do some deep breathing and some yoga (again) but it's been crazy making, even though nothing in particular has happened to cause it (I had a letter and a phone call to deal with, neither a big deal but both just tipped me out of the edge).  I can't keep going through my day being set off and then having to work hard for two to three hours to calm down afterwards.  Something that did hit me (and has completely freaked me out) was that I was thinking back to the first child protection letter (this is where my intense reactions to letters comes from) and it occurred to me that, quite horrifically, the last eighteen years of my life have been completely controlled and dominated by the fabricated version of events that exist only in my mum's head and nowhere else.  Does that make sense to you guys?  I know it sounds messed up, but I just suddenly couldn't get it out of my head.  Even though she was wrong, even though she lied, whether consciously or unconsciously, her falsehood and her mistaken/fabricated/invented interpretation of events has actually controlled and dominated every single thing I've done since, either directly or indirectly.  Even down to the fact that I now have to spend an hour doing yoga and deep breathing to calm myself down again, because I had to call to cancel a doctor's appointment.  It just suddenly got in my head and it's really shaken me up.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: sKePTiKal on December 20, 2019, 10:28:56 AM
Tupp, I think I need to send you a paper shredder. Shreds are useful compost, as those crosscut snibbles of things that are no longer relevant to your life; the things that you do NOT need to keep around anymore as they can never be important again.

The past decade of my life has generated a gigantic amount of paper - estates, sale documents, taxes, etc. Boxes & boxes of this crap. Haven't done it lately, but I'll put on some relaxing music, make sure I have lubricant sheets, and then have a massive shredding session. Empty the bin into a trash bag (you'll still never contain the mess) and repeat. Until the boxes are empty and the stacks are gone, leaving ONLY the things you might conceivably need in the future.

It's amazing how therapeutic this simple task is. For me, at least, it opens up so much more emotional space and the side benefit of more physical space helps too.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on December 20, 2019, 11:06:40 AM
That spiral is SO familiar, Tupp. 

Stop judging yourself.  THIS is a physical thing.... you can move yourself out of it, but you have to address your hijacked biology. 

Push on a doorjamb for a few minutes, as hard as you possibly can, and breeaaaathe from the bottom of your lungs... filling them through your nose.... pooch out your tummy, then breath out slowly.... FOCUS on the pushing and breathing. 

Check your pain/discomfort... where is it?  What exactly does it feel like?  Put a number on it 1-10.  Focus on that discomfort and breathe some more... maybe waver your hand in front of your face 10 times(one back and forth is ONE time).. about 18 inches out, and breathe while focusing on those physical sensations.

Check the feelings... have they improved?  1-10?  If it's getting better, continue till it's a zero. 

If it stops getting better, focus on a place of ease in your body, and breathe some more. 

You're getting dragged BACK into the moments you were in danger, under fire, in crisis and battling for your survival. 

Your survival brain is in charge when you're spiraling like this.  It's OK.  You can sneak up under it with breathwork and nonjudgmental focus and unhook your survival brain. 

Once you've done it enough the brain calms enough tp process the memories and sensations AROUND THE MAIL, and phone calls, IME.

That the same triggers keep setting you off seems daunting, I know. 

It will get better.  You don't have to live this way forever.

When we're under stress we do what we've always done, and that's just not working anymore.  Try the breathing, pushing on doorjambs, or cross your arms over your chest and pat your shoulders gently, one at a time, like a mother comforting a baby.... and breathe, Tupp.

Give attention to the anxiety..... find it in your body.  Put your hand on it.  Name it.  Describe it.  Give it a number 1-10.  Breathe into it, and really focus on it.  Add the EMDR waving your hand in front of your vision if you remember.  10 times.

Check your distress.  You can move yourself OUT of that spiral, ((((Tupp.))))

Lighter

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on December 20, 2019, 11:18:03 AM
Tupp, I think I need to send you a paper shredder. Shreds are useful compost, as those crosscut snibbles of things that are no longer relevant to your life; the things that you do NOT need to keep around anymore as they can never be important again.

The past decade of my life has generated a gigantic amount of paper - estates, sale documents, taxes, etc. Boxes & boxes of this crap. Haven't done it lately, but I'll put on some relaxing music, make sure I have lubricant sheets, and then have a massive shredding session. Empty the bin into a trash bag (you'll still never contain the mess) and repeat. Until the boxes are empty and the stacks are gone, leaving ONLY the things you might conceivably need in the future.

It's amazing how therapeutic this simple task is. For me, at least, it opens up so much more emotional space and the side benefit of more physical space helps too.

Ha ha, I have got a shredder, Skep, not a huge one but fine for doing the normal bits and pieces that you have to get rid of.  It's Winter Solstice here so I've got a picture in my mind of naked dancing round a big fire by the light of the full moon :)  Lol.  Yep, the thought of it all being gone is kind of almost too good to grasp right now.  But I am reaching my mind to it as best I can :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on December 20, 2019, 02:22:44 PM
I'm so very happy you're going to a new T, Tupp.
Trauma really is the word for what you went through and are trying not to recycle over and over again. Perhaps also PTSD...plus the stress of solo disabled-son-raising with little money or support. Good god, that's a lot.

I can relate to some of it, though I haven't been through what you have and still go through. Forgive all this repetition but I sort of have a point by the end:
When my only sib (sociopath/malignant N) attacked me through the courts and spread lies about me abusing Nmom (oh the irony), he put me through several years of psychological and legal hell. The other area isn't legal, but when my D walked out of my life, and it finally sank in that love could not fix this....she was utterly out of reach due to mental illness (and I confess now, I believe NPD)....that was the biggest trauma of my life. All of this stuff: Nmom's death and betrayal, SocioNBro's betrayal and court attack, D's everything...happened during the same period, while I was also working for increasingly-nasty Nboss. That time was a level of daily trauma I'd never experienced before and never will again, unless I'm abused by someone when I'm helpless. I can't imagine anything being that bad, anyway.

As to when it's over....hmmm. I swiftly recovered from Nmom's death because I had had the time to ponder, pre-grieve and forgive her, recognizing her as part scorpion-who-couldn't-help-being-a-scorpion. She was not a "malignant" N like my bro. She was broken and self-obsessed, but still tried in moments (she had a decent value system that blocked her from rage or abuse, though she did manipulate endlessly and lie a lot due to myth-making). Bro, like my D, was gone instantly when the money was. Him I never think about and have no plans to see again. D I do think about, but less, and with less anguish. I'm ambivalent about the prodigal myth. I'm not sure how I'd feel if she reappeared now, because I don't have fantasies about her transformation. Simplest answer is my heart would leap at the sight of her face (at first anyway) but my mind would be extremely wary. No need to fantasize anyway, because hope is an enemy in that situation. Reality is my friend, ultimately.

[Another REAL thing was the support of this board, you real people, which is beyond expressing.]

Eighteen years is shocking, Tupp, but I get it. And here's my biggest point (sorry for the re-narration of my stuff here): During almost every single week/year of this, I HAD THE SUPPORT OF A WEEKLY APPOINTMENT WITH A KIND, 3-D THERAPIST. Still do. In addition, I HAD BY THEN A PHAMILY OF SORTS, in my case at church,  NOT A PERFECT BUT A GOOD-ENOUGH CIRCLE OF GOOD PEOPLE I SOMETIMES SIMPLY SAT WITH, AND OTHER TIMES ACTUALLY BEFRIENDED A FEW. (Just two or three I know are permanent.) That happened because of long-term repeated exposures, is all.

It was goodwill (positive/forgiving take on humans being good, which is not virtue on my part but a genetic personality trait I inherited from my father) + repeated showing up (me to them). I couldn't control/predict it all, it was at times a fumbling process to believe I could attract or belong to phamily (few solid friends, is all that is) and there were many disappointments/moments of hurt along the way. Ultimately, I had a feeeeeerocious determination to build a life, create/find/blunder into a wee phamily of sorts, and re-open myself to the possibility of good things happening. (Couldn't control or conjure up a host of SPECIFIC good-thing requirements or a must-have list. But I did have a couple particular needs I listened to, about home and no-more-Npeople.) Just found that in general, life gradually began to contain more good experiences and good people than agonizing ones. Looking back, it feels like a miracle, but I realize it wasn't. Just getting T-help and continuing to aim in directions that made sense. Endurance seems like a badge but it's just plodding on, really.)

I don't know which pieces of my story could apply to you, dear Tupp. But I'd bet my buttocks one key missing part for you has been not just phamily, but therapy. Whether a T is perfectly wise or right or comforting in all moments isn't as important as whether they are kind, have decent education/training, and are genuine in wanting to help you. I am positive you can identify those qualities. It's NOT religious certainty, therapy, it's just experiencing enough trust in another human in 3-D to release more of the anguish and fear you've been through, and then finding out that T is still sitting there, taking it in and not judging. Then working out WITH you (not ON you) ways the T can help you do more healing. Perhaps EMDR is going to be that method and relationship-with-T for you, Tupp. Whether it is or isn't, I can't express how positive I feel about you going to be with a T.

I think all this I've written is awkward, contains wayyyy too much meeeeeeee, but I hope in some way it offers you a little sense of not being alone.

I believe in you, Tupp. I truly do. Your humanity and insight glow from every post, you are honest and vulnerable, you are quite brilliant intellectually, you are grounded in reality, and you have the heart of a panther crossed with a tortoise.

Errrr....poet attack. Panther as in beautiful and protective mother. Tortoise as in you are so wise, woman, that I believe you will live a hundred years, even if your progress across the sand looks slow.

Big hugs,
Hops

PS--I can imagine how deeply difficult "regularly showing up" is for you, with son's needs, your own exhaustion, etc. When I can just hop in my car and go to an appointment with a T, or a meeting or circle or service...my only person to worry about is a dog. You are coping with much more stress and isolation, so I don't imagine that following anybody else's prescription for exactly how to build a phamily or do T or find peace makes sense. Maybe BITS here and there will help, and maybe the new T will.

It seems deeply rational to me that you're exploring ideas of community based on shared or nearby housing. That obviates some of the son-sitting and calendar challenges a whole lot and I so hope something along those lines does work out for you, Tupp.

You're in MY phamily, that's for sure. All-a y'all are.

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on December 20, 2019, 04:36:33 PM
Any time you need someone to even begin to comprehend your life, Tupp, I hope you'll have this article to share.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2019/12/12/she-was-arrested-leaving-her-special-needs-son-hospital-now-moms-are-rallying-behind-her/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2019/12/12/she-was-arrested-leaving-her-special-needs-son-hospital-now-moms-are-rallying-behind-her/)

Consider us among that crowd of mothers who appeared to support her.

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on December 22, 2019, 05:14:03 AM
That spiral is SO familiar, Tupp. 

Stop judging yourself.  THIS is a physical thing.... you can move yourself out of it, but you have to address your hijacked biology. 

Push on a doorjamb for a few minutes, as hard as you possibly can, and breeaaaathe from the bottom of your lungs... filling them through your nose.... pooch out your tummy, then breath out slowly.... FOCUS on the pushing and breathing. 

Check your pain/discomfort... where is it?  What exactly does it feel like?  Put a number on it 1-10.  Focus on that discomfort and breathe some more... maybe waver your hand in front of your face 10 times(one back and forth is ONE time).. about 18 inches out, and breathe while focusing on those physical sensations.

Check the feelings... have they improved?  1-10?  If it's getting better, continue till it's a zero. 

If it stops getting better, focus on a place of ease in your body, and breathe some more. 

You're getting dragged BACK into the moments you were in danger, under fire, in crisis and battling for your survival. 

Your survival brain is in charge when you're spiraling like this.  It's OK.  You can sneak up under it with breathwork and nonjudgmental focus and unhook your survival brain. 

Once you've done it enough the brain calms enough tp process the memories and sensations AROUND THE MAIL, and phone calls, IME.

That the same triggers keep setting you off seems daunting, I know. 

It will get better.  You don't have to live this way forever.

When we're under stress we do what we've always done, and that's just not working anymore.  Try the breathing, pushing on doorjambs, or cross your arms over your chest and pat your shoulders gently, one at a time, like a mother comforting a baby.... and breathe, Tupp.

Give attention to the anxiety..... find it in your body.  Put your hand on it.  Name it.  Describe it.  Give it a number 1-10.  Breathe into it, and really focus on it.  Add the EMDR waving your hand in front of your vision if you remember.  10 times.

Check your distress.  You can move yourself OUT of that spiral, ((((Tupp.))))

Lighter

Lighter, thank you.  I'm just responding quickly right now; I've a terrible cold, haven't slept the last two nights and am generally feeling dreadful, but am trying to push door frames and look after myself.  I'm very behind with the board again and am hoping to catch up over Christmas.  I do appreciate it all so, so much.  Thank you.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on December 22, 2019, 05:23:27 AM
Any time you need someone to even begin to comprehend your life, Tupp, I hope you'll have this article to share.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2019/12/12/she-was-arrested-leaving-her-special-needs-son-hospital-now-moms-are-rallying-behind-her/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2019/12/12/she-was-arrested-leaving-her-special-needs-son-hospital-now-moms-are-rallying-behind-her/)

Consider us among that crowd of mothers who appeared to support her.

Hugs
Hops

Hops, thank you, I'm just replying quickly as I'm full of cold and conscious that I've lots to catch up on on the board as well.  What you say about the T is interesting; I'll give the EMDR a go (and am hopeful as it seems to be helping Lighter so much) but what I've found with the last few therapists that I've tried is that I have felt judged by them.  And it was interesting to read you saying about non-judgement, because I've felt when I've tried to go (I'm thinking of three at the moment, there was another one who was lovely but when we moved the last time I couldn't get to her again because of transport issues) and explain my situation I felt I was being judged for not doing the mindfulness/law of attraction stuff and accepting that I can't control what happens to my son once I'm dead.

For me what's wrong about that is on a societal level - there's just such a deep seated acceptance of poor treatment and outcomes for people with disabilities here that there is a general assumption that I should just accept it's not up to much and stick him in a home anyway.  And that boils my blood so very deep inside, and I think that's why I haven't clicked with those three therapists - I didn't feel that they got me at my most basic level and I did feel that they were judging me for not being willing to just bung him somewhere and get on with my life.  I am realistic enough to know that it might come to me just having to give in and accept I can do no more but I'm going to give it a bloody good shot before I get to that stage.

So it was interesting you saying that because I think that hit the nail on the head and what strikes me with what Lighter is doing is that they seem to be focusing more on what comes up physically and what's painful to process, not so much on whether or not she should be feeling what she's feeling (at least that's the way it's coming across to me, I might have got that wrong!).  But it feels like that acceptance is there and they're just dealing with 'I feel scared' rather than whether or not she ought to be scared, you know?

That helps, thank you.  I'm skimming through and being brief but I'll catch up on everything properly over Christmas and you'll have plenty of reading to do when you get back from holiday :)  Lol, have a lovely time xx xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: sKePTiKal on December 22, 2019, 11:59:07 AM
Tupp, love.... I often don't know what to say that could be helpful for you; our situations are/were different and experiences too. And I hesitate to toss around "shoulds" these days; should be, should do. Even if I can clearly see something that perhaps you don't yet.

One thing I can say NOW, unequivocably, is that any T you decide to work with "should" be one who understands that part of their job is validating the righteous emotions you do have; that come up as you face similar life challenges over & over again. IMO, someone who "gets" those feelings, validates them, empathizes with them... will begin the process of leading you to finding the right tools to let those feelings calm, not come up in reaction to echoes or shadows of the past, and consciously manage them in a way that works for YOU. Maybe that's stating the obvious. But honestly, there is healing in just that much even before you start trying out various tools and practicing with them.

In some of the "group therapy" that's going on at the farm, something that people seem to hold in common is a belief that post-trauma, one can be reborn as if the trauma never occurred. This takes a lot of different forms. Hol is strong in ability to say "that is the past; it can't affect me now; and I choose to be/do this instead". Not everyone can do that, certainly not so clearly and strongly. (She also readily admits that it's not 100% perfect as a tool.) Matthew confessed that he expected to exit the hospital completely well again; and has been punishing himself and hard on himself simply because he still needs to work at being healthy like everyone does. John is struggling as well with some things.

And I recognized that during the court session, when it seemed that Hol's lawyers weren't going to show...  dissociation set in for me. It was mild; strictly emotional level; but I was that terrified. It was allieviated with some retail therapy in a well-stocked grocery store. For me, it's likely why I struggle to trust myself in certain situations. And I still work on this, probably always will. What helped today, was realizing that this minor dissociation was actually HELPFUL for me under the circumstances and was actually more positive all around for everyone, even though it was thoroughly intense for me. In that situation, I was irrelevant and so were my feelings. For me to say or do anything would've been completely inappropriate and decidely NOT helpful. The lawyers did show; and I almost tearfully ran to hug him. LOL.

Humans have the capacity to feel a whole universe of emotions and mental states. Yoda say: there is no "should" or "try" -- just "do". No matter how uncomfortable a feeling or emotion is... it is our life experience and IME, feelings have their own language and syntax, and LOGIC, and are valuable in assessing our current state and choosing what you WANT to do about it, if anything. I'm grateful for ALL my feelings. And most of the time, they pass and change on their own without any conscious effort on my part. I get up every morning, understanding that this is another opportunity to do something different, be different, be present with whatever I "am" that day.

No "rules", NO JUDGEMENT. Just being.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on December 22, 2019, 01:20:53 PM
(((((((((Tupp)))))))))) snuck back in, knew I would though I should be packing....

Just a quick pingback on what you said about "feeling judged" by three therapists.

Maybe they were all judging you and wishing you'd just hurry up and warehouse your son. Hmmm.
But MAYBE, as with possibly some social situations, you were at times mind-reading or guessing based on inner emotions that might have been responding to the present moment, but also might have been kicking up emotional debris from the past? For example, maybe one of them actually wasn't judging, but what looked like judgement cues might have been facial expressions that echoed how difficult/frustrating your situation is? (My current T has rather narrow-set eyes and a habit of suddenly leaning forward and staring at me intensely while frowning. Took me a while to figure out that those moments signal when she is actually feeling a big wave of empathy and concentrating hard! LOL. I trust her; she's shown she understands a lot about me.) Maybe even T's can't have all the solutions but help you anyway by giving you a safe space to work through it all, not alone?

Just a possibility. On the other hand, if your interaction-nuance-radar is highly tuned, you might be right? Just like nearly all of the bureaucrats, most Ts are not trustworthy? (A gentle challenge about whether your thoughts about your feelings might be leading you to conclude that most Ts are judgmental, thus cannot be allies.) That said, mine isn't a blanket endorsement of all or any Ts, for sure. (I've had terrible, neutral, and amazing-thank-god-I-found-you therapists. Been at it a looooong time in different places. Overall, I have just recognized that I am a human who needs T and likely always will, and that's fine with me. So it remains a priority.

I LIKE what you said about the present-focus and physicality of EMDR. Focusing on what actually is happening within the body/memory, not evaluating its legitimacy. Big hopes for you on this.

Like you, I'd toss anybody pitching mindless positive thinking out the window. With my brain, meditation doesn't seem to be an answer though it would probably help. THINKING about the present moment helps a lot, though. Maybe for you some CBT-style thought-challenging could be worthwhile, but not if having thoughts challenged registers as being judged for having them. EMDR sounds pretty exciting. It is hard to imagine how anybody who's been through what you have, and still faces indifference and obstacles as you have...wouldn't start from a wary place about professionals of all sorts. I hope the next T you meet helps you get through that.

I'll have all fingers and toes crossed for you, in hopes that a regular and continuing relationship in 3D with a compassionate, well trained and decent T, based on whatever philosophy or approach turns out to be what you need, will show up for you.

Big hugs,
Hops

PS - I think therapy could also go better if you make sure to speak up and say what you're feeling, after you've managed to summarize the basic fact situation. As in, "I have had difficulty when I've tried therapy before, not feeling judged. I might not always be reading it right but thought it might be helpful to tell you that." A wise T values everything you are willing to share that can help them understand and work with you. Particularly information about how you feel, not just-the-facts about your journey. I'd suggest mentioning to any T how many pages/boxes of documentation your story is contained in, at your home. That mental image says a lot.

They need to know not just the facts-past but also your feelings-present, and it takes a good deal of time and repeated visits. I sooooo hope this can be managed. I'd come over and sit with son every week so you could make it to your appointments!
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on December 22, 2019, 08:31:20 PM
Tupp:

IF this T comes across as judgmental....
IF you feel something familiar that makes you reflexively defend yourself....

you have my permission to notice, then let it pass you by like a cloud on a windy day.  Discard as necessary without judging back.

Your journey is yours, and you don't require this T SEE it like you've experienced it, IME.  She's human...  she might have sore spots and triggers too IF she's no doing her own mindful work on herself.   I hope she is. 

EMDR is very quick, IME, but it's not about dropping goals or belief systems without doing work.  I can't imagine an EMDR T asking that of you.   

EMDR is processing those tough emotions and sensations.... a good EMDR T should fearlessly bring those things up for you, help you put the story on the shelf then move into processing fearlessly....never dismissing or judging, IME.

Hopefully your T does yoga, and practices mindfulness, and nonjudgmental focus on her own journey. THAT will help her drop judgment, ego and expectation around your journey, which seems obvious, but sometimes, Tupp...

sometimes....

ego gets in the way.

If I'd know that all those years ago,  when other Ts said stupid things... .maybe I would have noticed it, had compassion for the T's shortcomings, and just turned away from that, and into what I needed from the T.

I didn't know what I needed. I was roiling with discontent, and suffering, and the injustice wasn't cool, and it would neverBE cool and is still NOT COOL, and having to defend that point is not productive.  Been there, done that. You shouldn't feel the need to defend anything, Tupp. 

Some of us require more education than others regarding PDs.  That's a very sad statement when we're talking about Ts and Judges and attorneys, and social workers, but there it is, Tupp.  The systems are imperfect, yet we have to navigate them, and somehow do our best within them.  The third party enablers are almost more maddening, IME.   The systems.... are part of your journey, and we need our entire brain, calmed,  and firing on all cylinders to DO THAT, IME. 

I deserve not to be stuck any longer.

YOU deserve not to be stuck.

Even if the T doesn't "get" everything you're trying to explain... please remember... you aren't explaining so the T undertands.  You're speaking from the heart, and telling a story so you can finish processing it. The sensations around it are the important bit.  This T has skills and training that might be just what your brain needs to finish processing and get on with the life intended for you.

You deserve to freedom from the tyranny of your stories, Tupp...  they're in the past,  but it feels like they're right there, in your face, in your present moments. THIS is the mission... to finish them, and leave them behind so you can be here, now. 

You can fix that, and move on so you're no longer reacting... so you're responsive and present in the here and now. 

You so deserve a release from the past.  Don't assume this T will repeat mistakes of other Ts.  Know you're a good communicator, and you'll help her understand should she require more education. It's going to be OK.

Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on December 30, 2019, 01:39:19 PM
I'm still very behind on everyone's posts :)

This Christmas has heralded the end of an era for me, I think.  I've had a terrible cold and still feel pretty rough.  My anxiety was so bad the week before Christmas that I did go to the doc for some medication.  I don't usually, because I like to work through how I feel rather than just numbing it, but it was just too much so I got a script and, fortunately, it started to work very quickly and I've been virtually anxiety free since.

I'm very tired, even though I've been resting a lot.  Son and I have talked about college; he is still keen to go so I am thinking about him attending just a day a week for a while, to see how he gets on.  He is much less work for me when he's at home and not getting so tired.  That's kind of the issue, is how much more I have to do for him to go to college.  So we'll compromise on a day a week for now and see what happens after that.

I think this Christmas is the loneliest I have ever felt.  Just that lack of close relationships (in the real world) really hit me hard this year.  I think trying to get out more in the evenings, so that I can meet people, is probably a good thing to try and do as time goes on.

Still thinking about moving - looking, reading, thinking.  Still thinking communal might be the way to go.  May get over to the commune I mentioned before this coming weekend.  But no firm plans yet.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on December 31, 2019, 04:27:30 PM
I'm glad your anxiety improved, Tupp.

Sorry you're feeling so disconnected.  I hope getting out and meeting new folks changes that soon.

One day of college a week sounds like a workable compromise. 

A new year is upon us.  I pray everyone gets more of what they want, ((Tupp.))

Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on January 01, 2020, 08:49:02 AM
I know there are people who will be new and calming and good in your life, Tupp.

I am sooo sorry for how Christmas felt. It's a special kind of lonely some nothingness dreamed up, like a cold draft on the back of the neck.

I hope your own magical version of Tupp-hygge will drive it out so you can enter 2020 with peace.

Hugs and hope,
Hops

Ps--have a hotspot for a few mo, but full catchup back in San Jose where internet doesn't depend on monkeys....
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on January 03, 2020, 04:13:09 AM
I am reading everyone's replies but not quite able to form responses yet lol, my brain seems to be fuddled at the minute and I can't seem to get the words out :)  But all are very helpful and I am taking on board, thinking, processing, breathing.

I am, quite consciously, moving away from physical achievements - moving house, paying off debt, organising support for son - and trying to focus on inward achievements - calmness, happiness, boundary setting, enjoyable hobbies (what are they?  it's been so long I don't even know anymore).  I have spent my whole life thinking if I can do a, b and c then I'll be happy, life will be good, I'll get what I want and so on.  And I never reach my own standard, it's always too high.  And then I feel worse for not doing it and so it goes on.  So I've been trying really hard these last few days not to strive, not to aim for anything, not to make myself do things, and just to do what I feel like (which is mostly watching B movies and catching up on box sets) and NOT LETTING MYSELF FEEL GUILTY OR THAT I'M NOT DOING ENOUGH OR I SHOULD BE DOING X, Y AND Z INSTEAD.  I'm putting it in caps because I have to remind myself a lot that, given the circumstances, the fact that I'm still standing is nothing short of a miracle and anything else that occurs is a bonus.

It doesn't mean I have given up any hope of moving or life getting better or anything like that, just that I'm focusing more on me, the inner me that doesn't get to speak up much about anything, and just letting her make the decisions - instead of making them for her all the time.

The anxiety meds have helped - side effects were minimal and only lasted a few days and I can really feel the difference.  It's a low dose and if it means I can get through the day without having to put half my energy into coping with the anxiety than that is a good thing.  EMDR lady as been in touch and we're going to have a chat on the phone as a first port of call.  Son wants to go back to college but interestingly only so he can tell everyone what he did over the holidays.  I asked him what he likes about college and he said being able to tell everyone what he did at home.  So we'll try a day a week.

Car is going back to the lease company on Monday; it's been lovely having it but money is tight and we'll have more in our pockets each month if we use the bus so I'll get that sorted out today.

Tie dyed some pillowcases but didn't tie the knots tight enough so they just dyed a plain colour and the washing machine did that thing you see in comedies where there are bubbles out the door and all over the floor.  Looked a bit crazy.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on January 03, 2020, 04:22:58 AM
Meant to mention something about therapists as well and forgot :)

Years ago, I had a great therapist who I really liked and who helped me a lot.  The sessions ended abruptly because I got to a session one afternoon and she told me that she didn't feel she could do any more to help me because I wasn't willing/able to work on my step-dad stuff and that was really all that was left to deal with.  I just went home and that was that, never saw her again and it upset me enormously.  Partly because I had felt she was helping, even though she felt she wasn't, partly because I felt like I'd been sacked by her (not a good enough client) and partly because I've always been conscious of not having a real life person to talk to for hours and having to pay someone to listen.  I felt that even with pay, she didn't want to listen to me and that affected me a lot.

I think that might be part of the reason that I've found it difficult with therapists since - any kind of question or challenge from them and I think it elicits that reaction again - I'm going to be rejected, I'll get out first.  So I think I might use that as a first thing to work on with this therapist and see if that sets a better tone for the rest of the sessions.  What do you think?
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: sKePTiKal on January 04, 2020, 08:39:19 AM
I think perhaps it would be good to mention it Tupp. It would be necessary to forming a good working relationship with the new T. Having those cards out on the table.

The other thing to think about, is that sometimes, people take a break from therapy - when they come up against something as intense as I imagine your stepdad work would be. Maybe that T was just suggesting a break until you were ready to tackle it and not rejecting you at all. Even though you really felt it that way.

I get what you're saying about paying someone to listen to you. I felt that too, a lot of times. Even though it was the only T I worked with. I'd kinda talk about daily stuff, complain about the same things, etc. There wasn't anything in what I was giving her, to really work on. For me, that was my smokescreen wall, proclaiming absolute control that we weren't going to go any deeper or further than that; that I wasn't yet ready to dive in.

Later on, it was more like we'd sifted things so finely and fully processed the kitchen scraps into fertile black compost that there wasn't any more she could do to help me; I had to step up and do those things myself. Otherwise, I'd become dependent instead of INdependent.

Hmmmmm. Now that I think of it, that's a story I need to tell Hol.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on January 04, 2020, 10:22:38 PM
Tupp:

It sounds like your T let her ego overtake her, IMO.  A good T shouldn't push a client into something they aren't ready for, IME. I'm gobsmacked she did that, truly. 

HOpefully the new EMDR gal will have a better handle on herself. 

I'd definitely discuss what happened with the last T. 

Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on January 06, 2020, 05:33:27 AM
I think perhaps it would be good to mention it Tupp. It would be necessary to forming a good working relationship with the new T. Having those cards out on the table.

The other thing to think about, is that sometimes, people take a break from therapy - when they come up against something as intense as I imagine your stepdad work would be. Maybe that T was just suggesting a break until you were ready to tackle it and not rejecting you at all. Even though you really felt it that way.

I get what you're saying about paying someone to listen to you. I felt that too, a lot of times. Even though it was the only T I worked with. I'd kinda talk about daily stuff, complain about the same things, etc. There wasn't anything in what I was giving her, to really work on. For me, that was my smokescreen wall, proclaiming absolute control that we weren't going to go any deeper or further than that; that I wasn't yet ready to dive in.

Later on, it was more like we'd sifted things so finely and fully processed the kitchen scraps into fertile black compost that there wasn't any more she could do to help me; I had to step up and do those things myself. Otherwise, I'd become dependent instead of INdependent.

Hmmmmm. Now that I think of it, that's a story I need to tell Hol.

Thanks, Skep, yes, it can be difficult, getting to a point where you can open up, or getting to a point where you can figure it out on your own.  It's hard to know where the line is and which way to do.  I will mention it to this new T; it did make me wonder if that's the reason that I've found it hard to stick with a therapist since.  I do hear criticism and rejection where there probably isn't any (or not any intended, anyway).  So I will speak to her about it.  I love your compost analogy :)  Lol xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on January 06, 2020, 05:36:41 AM
Tupp:

It sounds like your T let her ego overtake her, IMO.  A good T shouldn't push a client into something they aren't ready for, IME. I'm gobsmacked she did that, truly. 

HOpefully the new EMDR gal will have a better handle on herself. 

I'd definitely discuss what happened with the last T. 

Lighter

Thanks, Lighter.  It was a bit out of the blue - a bit of a shock.  Up until that point I'd had a really good, trusting relationship with her and it did feel a bit abrupt.  But equally she could have carried on seeing me knowing she wasn't doing anything and just taking my money, so in a way it was good that she said she didn't feel she could do anymore.  Just perhaps might have been a bit easier if she'd discussed it with me at the end of a session and given me a bit of time to think about it all.  It just felt very abrupt.  I sat down to start the session, she said what she said, I didn't really know what to say and then she said I could go home and think about it if I wanted to, so I left only five minutes after I got there.  So it was a bit out of the blue and unexpected.  But I'll mention it to the new lady and we'll see how it goes.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on January 06, 2020, 05:56:35 AM
Well I am still behind on the board!  But am trying to catch up a bit now.

We visited the commune yesterday.  They do a community day ever Sunday.  They start with two hours of Dance Church, which is a family friendly party, two hours of music with people dancing around in any way they want to.  Then they have a community lunch, and in the afternoon a singing workshop.  There is a small charge for each event, to cover costs, and people are free to turn up and dip in and out of everything - all very informal and laid back.

My anxiety was through the roof and I almost didn't go in.  I had a million thoughts going through my head about getting there, who might be there, how son would be, what it would be like, what would they think of me, what if someone was mean to son, and so on.  We rang the bell and a young lad of about twelve came and let us in and then wandered off so we stood in the hall for a few minutes.  Then a man came out of the kitchen and led us through to the event room, which is a large room up a flight of stairs.  It's a beautiful space, with a large vaulted ceiling and huge windows across the outer wall.  The view was stunning; they've a large garden that was full of kids running about and a few bare footed men.  Beyond the garden is literally miles of fields, as far as you can see, with hills off in the distance.  Really lovely.

We were a bit early so I made polite conversation with the DJ, who was very nice and friendly.  People started arriving, the music started and people started to dance.  I felt so stiff and self-conscious that I was barely moving and my anxiety was very bad still.  But as I looked around the room and saw more and more people coming in, the range of people there was amazing.  The youngest was probably about 18 months, so cute, dancing with their mum and dad.  There were various kids wandering in and out, dancing with people, going off again, sitting in the corner where someone had made a tent out of a blanket.  The eldest was a man who I would guess was in his eighties, who had more energy than anyone else there.  It was a real mix of people - some you wouldn't look twice at if you passed in the street, others looked as if they might be circus performers or something.  Some people just sort of swayed with their eyes closed, some were really energetic, some - like me - just sort of bopped about a bit.

People were very smiley and very friendly.  A lot of them obviously knew each other, there were lots of warm hugs and embraces.  Some people danced with others, some danced alone.  I did start to relax as the session went on and realised just how bad my anxiety is now, and how worried I am constantly about how I look, what I say, how I am and so on.  It was a bit of a wake up call.  It made me realise how I am just a shell of my former self now, and it made me determined to change.

I am going to work really hard on myself now, and on how I feel and what I do, not how things look on the outside.  I felt very welcome and wanted there and it was nice; I haven't felt like that for a long time.  There wasn't a lot of talking, because of the music, but people smiled if they caught your eye.  At the end there was some circle work, holding hands, deep breathing, sharing a word to close the session and a brief meditation.  It felt nice and very genuine.

We didn't stay for lunch; son hadn't really enjoyed it as it wasn't the sort of music he liked so he'd spend the whole time looking out of the window.  I had a really nice time, in a quiet, inside way.  It just made me realise how different my life is now, how little of it I feel is my own, how much I've changed from someone with a career and friends and family with hopes and dreams to someone who is lost and feels very alone.

I have put thoughts of moving to one side for now.  I feel like I really need to work on myself so that I feel more confident and more comfortable.  I would love to go back there, although we won't have a car now which will make it difficult.  But they do working holidays there and AirBNB so we could go and stay sometimes, or when we have a car again in the future visit more regularly.  I would definitely like to get to know the people better and use it as a way to reconnect with myself.  I woke up this morning feeling determined to change things, feel better, get my life to a place where the day is enjoyable, rather than being an endurance test.  I've lost my way over the years and that session helped me see that, so I'm really glad I went now.

I will update as more happens :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on January 07, 2020, 01:08:07 PM
Hi, Tupp:

I was thinking about college, and how your son really wants to visit with his friends, not attend class.

When my girls were homeschooling we visited their old school and the girls participated in class... usually several days in a row, monthly.  It was nice to keep the social contact, and everyone enjoyed it.

You might find you're welcome to bring your son to visit his old class and it works out well for everyone, depending on the framework.  Maybe set up an hour for something like show and tell once a week where everyone has something to share with the class?  Maybe it could be during lunch if it doesn't seem the teachers are open to it?

Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on January 12, 2020, 05:12:07 AM
Hi, Tupp:

I was thinking about college, and how your son really wants to visit with his friends, not attend class.

When my girls were homeschooling we visited their old school and the girls participated in class... usually several days in a row, monthly.  It was nice to keep the social contact, and everyone enjoyed it.

You might find you're welcome to bring your son to visit his old class and it works out well for everyone, depending on the framework.  Maybe set up an hour for something like show and tell once a week where everyone has something to share with the class?  Maybe it could be during lunch if it doesn't seem the teachers are open to it?

Lighter

That's a good idea, Lighter, I will add it to my list of possibilities :)  Son enjoyed the two days he went in, but it took us both two days to recover and then another two days to catch up on everything that didn't get done.  I think part of the problem for me is just going there has a physical impact on both of us - him because of the sensory issues, me because of the PTSD type stuff.  It is what it is; I've decided to stick with it all the time he wants to carry on, give or take the odd day if it really feels like too much and the duvet is beckoning.  What I do like about using the bus is the social aspect; people are friendly, as are the bus drivers for the most part, and the cats!  Cats are just everywhere and so many of them come over for a stroke, they are funny.

I am trying really hard to just be, to observe and think and take it all in, rather than putting on a front and constantly reaching for something that isn't there.  I do find it incredibly hard and two things occurred to me when I woke up this morning.  One is that I've never really been myself around people.  I think when your own family reject who you are from a young age being yourself becomes very scary.  Add to that the number of people who've vanished from my life when I've stopped doing what they want and it becomes apparent that keeping your real self tucked away seems sensible!  But I don't want to do it anymore, and being around those people last week who were such a mixture and who just shared time in a very real way was a revelation.  They struck me as being people who might be able to accept something less than perfection and who might focus on what you can do, rather than what you can't.

The other thing that struck me this morning is the disconnection with reality, and I feel like I see it all around me now.  The ravaging of the planet, the wars, the over consumption, and on a more personal level, not being able to be myself, not being able to cope with the public sector, my mum's lifetime of refusal to deal with what is going on in her own life.  It just seems to be everywhere and I don't want to add to that with my own refusal to be brave enough to be who I am and cope with the rejection if other people don't like that.  That seemed to be ringing very true today.

The anxiety meds are helping a lot and I'm seeing the EMDR lady for the first time this week.  I'm not sleeping well again - I think going back to college has triggered that - and son is rocking a lot more and making noises that he can't control, but we'll both keep working on relaxing and regulating our systems and hopefully that will all settle down a bit more over time.  I'm still trying to eat better, drink more water, rest more and get the yoga in each day.  The daylight hours are increasing here now and that helps.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on January 14, 2020, 11:45:51 AM
Well I am in love with the EMDR lady :)  First session today, we did some mind mapping/brain storming stuff.  She gave me small pieces of paper and asked me to write very briefly - one or two words - as many negative experiences (or people) that I felt were problematic, and then as many positive experiences (or people) as I felt I had, throughout my life - just anything that felt important.

I wrote it very quickly - the negatives outweighed the positives but I liked having the positives in front of me and we laid everything out on the table.  Then she asked me to talk her through each note and give a bit more detail, which I did, with her asking questions along the way for clarity and to check details.  Then she asked me to arrange them in any way I saw fit, so I sort of grouped things together in terms of their connections to each other or to certain people.  I do feel that the original child protection thing has had the biggest impact so I put that at the top of all the son related stuff and then everything else kind of fell down from that.

After talking through that a bit more she talked me through the brain functions, explaining that the front bit controls speech and cognitive skills, whilst the back bit is the primitive, set in survival mode bit.  She said that is why the law of attraction/power of positive thinking/mindfulness stuff is of no use when it's the back bit of your brain that's stuck - it's working on reflexes and is stuck in fear mode and it doesn't matter how often you tell it it doesn't need to be scared because it can't hear you.  That on its own was a big relief, that she wasn't going to tell me to think about it differently or reframe it.  She talked through being in a safe zone and what happens when your safe zone is very narrow (she had various diagrams and sheets to help explain things) and it just all made so much sense.  I really felt 'heard'.  She mentioned narcissism in relation to my mum, without me saying anything about it, and gaslighting in relation to my mum's actions and the actions of many of the public sector workers we've had to deal with, again without me using the term.  It just felt like we were on the same page and she gets it, which was a huge relief.  I'm seeing her again next week when we'll be getting on with it!  I'm very tired now but more in a relieved way?  Which is nice :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on January 14, 2020, 12:17:27 PM
Oh wow, ((((Tupp))))!

I'm in love with her too! I could not be more thrilled to hear this. Maybe THIS is the path that's going to get you to within howitzer-blasting distance of the trolls that live in your lizard brain. I am over the moon about it.

I loved what you said about the built-in habit of believing it's not safe to be yourself among others. That struck me as a huge insight.

And the fear of rejection.

Both of those are such direct and clear targets you can work on.

You are SO ready to do this work, and to trust the T.

Yippee,
Hops

PS Also understood more viscerally from this post how draining it is with son, his increased rocking and noise making when he's overstimulated or tired. It makes so much sense.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on January 14, 2020, 01:19:58 PM
Wow, Tupp.  It's lovely when someone who gets it, really SEES our POV.  Not everyone can, and that's OK, but it's detrimental when we really need to get into the nitty gritty of banishing trauma in our brains,  IME. 

I think Trauma Ts aren't shocked, expect the shocking and know how to unhook the lizard brain so it can calm down and get on with processing AND whats in front of us.  So glad that went well.  Did she give you any homework or reading?

I'm amazed you continue with full time school for ds, considering the costs to you both, while keeping the door open for changes.  You're such a great mom.

Here's to a new year of self care, self discovery and calming the brain down.  You're so deserving of trauma resolution and what's beyond. ((Tupp.))

Lighter

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on January 16, 2020, 08:31:41 AM
Thank you both :)  I am being cautiously optimistic but ........................ I think it's helping already??!  I didn't expect any change as the first session was really just to have a chat and decide if it was worth going forward but I woke up the next day, and this morning, without the usual feeling of dread that I see to carry in my chest constantly.  I've slept better both nights and although we've had an incident at college and a problem with the local hospital, both of which would have just knocked me for six only a week ago, I kind of feel alright?  There was a reaction, it did annoy me, I have read a couple of people the riot act but I don't feel shaky, I'm not struggling to breath, I've no chest pain and I was able to get on with sorting out the dinner and catching up with a bit of online banking, instead of having to hide under the duvet until I've calmed down.  The endless chatter in my head seems to have calmed down and I'm not feeling overwhelmed by my To Do list - in fact, I'm finding I'm surprised at how quickly I'm getting things done.  And when I was sat watching TV last night I looked around my sitting room and thought it looked quite cosy.  Usually I sit here thinking it's a dump?  So I'm not sure if it could have done something that fast, but I am making the most of it while I can!

Lighter, son is only doing two days a week at college, I couldn't cope with full time (and neither could he).  Two days seems to be working okay for now and we're carrying on with our trips to the library and various other things we do alongside it.

I am imagining a life where I'm not constantly having to cope with how I feel and I have to say it is a very nice thing to imagine! xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on January 16, 2020, 11:55:13 AM
(((((Tupp)))))

Nearly brought tears to think of you waking in the morning without anxiety surging through you. Anxiety which does NOTHING for you, ever, changes nothing, advances nothing, protects nothing.

I will personally make a statue of your new T and erect it anywhere you and she chooses. I just need the heroic pose.

Nahhh. Actually, I would prefer to make a hero-statue of YOU. You are so brave, and persistent, and determined, and you overcame your resistance to seeking T-help and now....help is here.

Happy dancing...big hugs,
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on January 16, 2020, 07:40:00 PM
Ah... college 2 days only.  Seems reasonable, but I wouldn't blame you for taking a complete break for a while. 

Believe it's permanent, tupp..... the ease and calm in your brain and body.  Believe 100% it's here to stay and know there's more to come.  Your brain just needs a chance to calm down, finish processing the stuck stuff and get on with functioning properly again.  It's easy.  It happens in a millisecond. 

Lighter



 

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Bettyanne on January 16, 2020, 08:47:35 PM
Wow.....
Well before I said anything about where I'm at......
I wish everyone lots of love....whether you have someone in your life or not.....
Feel good about yourself even it you were never showed that....
Make it the way you can.....feel good about yourself....I know it depends where you're at!!!!!!!
I had so much negativity in my life as a kid...but I read this today so here goes..

I didn't grow up having role models.
I grew up having people I didn't want to be like and seeing situation I didn't want to be in.
Not all of us are dealt the right cards, but that doesn't mean we can't reshuffle the deck
for a better outcome.

I like reading this....because for sure I agree with it.....
My dear husband has cancer and all I can do is pray and hope for the best...
I saw my dad have cancer and I saw my NM take his pain medicine and replace it with sugar.....yes your read that right
SUGAR....he was dying...a sweet good man...but I learned I would never do that.....NEVER ever....

Lots of Love and good things......in the days ahead for your all
Bettyanne
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on January 17, 2020, 12:02:12 PM
You aren't disordered, Bettyanne.  You're a kind, decent and caring person your husband is lucky to have shared a life with.  Your mother was disordered and what she did with your f's pain meds was an egregiously harmful thing to do to anyone. 

Thank you for sharing on this thread.  You're so right about our histories not having the power to determine the rest of our lives. 

Thanks for that reminder.  Sometimes it's good to see in black and white.

Lighter

 
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on January 19, 2020, 04:58:20 AM
(((((Tupp)))))

Nearly brought tears to think of you waking in the morning without anxiety surging through you. Anxiety which does NOTHING for you, ever, changes nothing, advances nothing, protects nothing.

I will personally make a statue of your new T and erect it anywhere you and she chooses. I just need the heroic pose.

Nahhh. Actually, I would prefer to make a hero-statue of YOU. You are so brave, and persistent, and determined, and you overcame your resistance to seeking T-help and now....help is here.

Happy dancing...big hugs,
Hops

Lol, Hops.  I don't feel brave and determined at all, I generally just feel exhausted and fed up, lol, but thank you for the kind words and offer of a statue :) Lol.

I have had a reaction to the incidents with college and the doctor, but not as big as it usually would be and I've been able to compartmentalise it and get on with other things without drowning in it.  It's been more that it's whirred around in my head a lot and disrupted my sleep.  But I've noticed links with 'things I do' to 'incidents that occurred' and I think that will be a big help.  I have to have the telly on to go to sleep and I often wake up in the night and have to go downstairs and sleep on the sofa.  I used to keep my telly on at night hoping step dad wouldn't realise I'd gone to sleep and wouldn't come in.  I think my fear of being in bed is down to the same thing, although bizarrely, I've never linked the two things together before.  I also had a year after the first child protection thing when I couldn't sleep in my bedroom at all - I slept on a mattress on the floor in the lounge for twelve months.  I never really knew why, but I guess it all links to being afraid and finding ways to make yourself feel safer.

I've also noticed that a lot of my 'attention to detail' has become less important.  I think that too is linked to many different incidents of criticism and accusation.  If all the little details are paid attention to then I'll be safe.  A T told me that years ago and I understood it but now I feel like I can actually feel it, if that makes sense?  So I am currently sitting here with my top on back to front, the breakfast dishes unwashed and only enough food for today in the fridge and I'm not feeling the relentless pressure that I normally do to get all of that sorted out?  Which is nice :)  So all in all still feel that it's been a step forward and I'm looking forward to going to see her again on Tuesday :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on January 19, 2020, 05:04:20 AM
Ah... college 2 days only.  Seems reasonable, but I wouldn't blame you for taking a complete break for a while. 

Believe it's permanent, tupp..... the ease and calm in your brain and body.  Believe 100% it's here to stay and know there's more to come.  Your brain just needs a chance to calm down, finish processing the stuck stuff and get on with functioning properly again.  It's easy.  It happens in a millisecond. 

Lighter

Lighter, it was so funny, but she was explaining things to me and it all made perfect sense, on a feeling level more than anything - it just felt right?  I didn't come away feeling like I need to change anything about myself?  It feels like she can organise the changes and I don't have to work on myself relentlessly?  Usually I feel like I have to fix my faulty wiring, but now it feels like she can do it?  Did it feel like that for you?  How many questions can one person ask in one paragraph?  Lol.

Argh, college!  I'm just itching to get back to doing things properly with him.  I realised, through talking to the T, how important it is to feel safe, and to nurture your brain and central nervous system.  And that's what they don't do in the system; they pressure the kids to tick boxes and be 'normal', and it just creates stress and anxiety.  So even though he likes going, it's not doing him any good healthwise, because they don't attend to that bit.  So I'm keen to get back to doing what we did before, which was focusing on activities and projects that help his development, calm his system and help him learn skills that are useful for him and that he enjoys.  Once we're settled into that, and have a better idea of when/where we'll be moving, I'll look into taking someone on part-time and training them up to follow his individual programme, rather than trying to make him fit in to what other people are doing.  And if I get to a point where I feel confident enough with his IT training and computer skills, I might look at putting on a class for other people with learning disabilities and see if anyone else would rather do film making and computer work than gardening and art and craft :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on January 19, 2020, 05:07:24 AM
Wow.....
Well before I said anything about where I'm at......
I wish everyone lots of love....whether you have someone in your life or not.....
Feel good about yourself even it you were never showed that....
Make it the way you can.....feel good about yourself....I know it depends where you're at!!!!!!!
I had so much negativity in my life as a kid...but I read this today so here goes..

I didn't grow up having role models.
I grew up having people I didn't want to be like and seeing situation I didn't want to be in.
Not all of us are dealt the right cards, but that doesn't mean we can't reshuffle the deck
for a better outcome.

I like reading this....because for sure I agree with it.....
My dear husband has cancer and all I can do is pray and hope for the best...
I saw my dad have cancer and I saw my NM take his pain medicine and replace it with sugar.....yes your read that right
SUGAR....he was dying...a sweet good man...but I learned I would never do that.....NEVER ever....

Lots of Love and good things......in the days ahead for your all
Bettyanne

I think at least we know what we don't want, Bettyanne, and who we don't want to be like, and I think that can help us try not to make the same mistakes our parents did.  My head spins at replacing someone's meds with sugar - and yet I know my mum did similar to kids she used to look after.  She wouldn't give them their meds and then would announce she knew they didn't need them because they were fine if they didn't take them.  The fact that messing about with doses and that drugs take time to build up and reduce in the system was lost on her.  They do seem to have a sort of God complex that makes them do the most bizarre things.  Your poor Dad.  I am glad you're nothing like your mum, Bettyanne xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: sKePTiKal on January 19, 2020, 08:24:20 AM
BettyAnne - my Dad's mom did something similar to one of her husbands. He became blind and asked for sugar in his coffee. Just to be mean, she used salt instead. That is only one example of what she believed she could do to people - with no conscience about it whatsoever. I never ever heard her apologize for anything.

I think that's one way my Dad & I were more compatible; we both became the targets of the PD in our FOO when there wasn't a partner anymore for them to concentrate on. I know I recognized it, even years before therapy. I don't know if he did or not.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: CB123 on January 19, 2020, 11:23:49 AM
Tupp, I'm following your journey with such interest. You are in such a different system than we are here--for us, college doesnt start till 18 and it sounds like your son is younger than that?

I identify with so much of your soul searching because we chose to homeschool our kids and there comes a point where transitioning them to a conventional school is a mammoth undertaking. Many years I would research schools starting in April because it just seemed too much to continue with all six of them in different grades, and every year I vowed to continue for "one more year". And, of course, I ended up finishing the whole thing with all of them that way!

Then, too, was all the health issues that began to crop up and it felt like it would be just one more job to tackle to get them all in places that would take those into account. And the mental health issues that started in their 20s had probably been brewing for awhile as well. I just wished I could have some respite and there wasnt any--so I read your posts with much compassion. If I could wish anything for you, its just that you could have breaks. I hope that him returning to college part time will give you that.

I think your plan of doing the real work of schooling your son and allowing college to be a place where he socializes and gets some outside input is a great idea. It's possible that even the differences between the way you do things and the way others do (in a safe environment) will give him some practice in resiliancy. I dont know how much he is able to internalize that, but I know that I often worried when we were on the farm that they needed an input that I couldnt give them. I felt deeply the weight of responsibility to provide so much.

That weight affects YOU too, and you get all in your head, as I did. It's exhausting. I'm so glad that you are finding ways of addressing that. For me, it was connecting in some way with the bigger world--reading, classes (I took online college classes, and I still find that learning something new takes me out of myself), something artistic, even if small. In a way, parenting myself.

Anyway, just wanted to say that I am rooting for you on the sidelines.

CB
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on January 20, 2020, 05:16:01 AM
Tupp, I'm following your journey with such interest. You are in such a different system than we are here--for us, college doesnt start till 18 and it sounds like your son is younger than that?

I identify with so much of your soul searching because we chose to homeschool our kids and there comes a point where transitioning them to a conventional school is a mammoth undertaking. Many years I would research schools starting in April because it just seemed too much to continue with all six of them in different grades, and every year I vowed to continue for "one more year". And, of course, I ended up finishing the whole thing with all of them that way!

Then, too, was all the health issues that began to crop up and it felt like it would be just one more job to tackle to get them all in places that would take those into account. And the mental health issues that started in their 20s had probably been brewing for awhile as well. I just wished I could have some respite and there wasnt any--so I read your posts with much compassion. If I could wish anything for you, its just that you could have breaks. I hope that him returning to college part time will give you that.

I think your plan of doing the real work of schooling your son and allowing college to be a place where he socializes and gets some outside input is a great idea. It's possible that even the differences between the way you do things and the way others do (in a safe environment) will give him some practice in resiliancy. I dont know how much he is able to internalize that, but I know that I often worried when we were on the farm that they needed an input that I couldnt give them. I felt deeply the weight of responsibility to provide so much.

That weight affects YOU too, and you get all in your head, as I did. It's exhausting. I'm so glad that you are finding ways of addressing that. For me, it was connecting in some way with the bigger world--reading, classes (I took online college classes, and I still find that learning something new takes me out of myself), something artistic, even if small. In a way, parenting myself.

Anyway, just wanted to say that I am rooting for you on the sidelines.

CB

Thanks, CB, the support of all of you on here means a lot to me and really gets me through difficult times, so thank you.  The system probably is different here; compulsory education ends at 16, although benefits (which people on low incomes receive) are dependent on the staying in education until they're 18.  So we have school until 16, then college until 18 or 19 (son is 17, 18 in a few weeks' time), and then University which is expensive, although wonderful (but definitely out of son's academic range!).  He's supposed to be entitled to education until he's 25 because he has learning disabilities but what they're doing with him is shockingly inadequate so I'll go back to doing it myself.  This current course finishes in early July and there are various social activities going on after that that he can go to if he's well enough.  My main worry is that we just don't provide learning disabled people in this country with a good level of care, so I'd really like to get him as independent as possible, both physically and financially, so that he won't have to rely entirely on 'the system'.  The problem with the system is that the standard is really low.  If he can make himself a sandwich or order a take away, he's considered able to cook and feed himself.  They don't worry about things like washing or keeping a house clean (and I'm talking just basic hygiene standards, not show home level).  If he spent all day sitting watching telly, no-one would mind or do anything to help him, so I'd just like to get him to a point where he can cook himself a decent meal, manage a basic budget and engage in something that keeps his mind active for at least some of the day.  The system focuses on the least amount of effort from them whereas I focus on the best life possible for him and that's where the problem lies :)  But I feel more confident now about getting on with it myself and engaging him more in the various processes.  You have had multiple children with different problems to deal with and I can only imagine how difficult that must have been and still is for you!  I am fortunate that I just have the one so I don't have to try to share myself out with others.  It's very difficult when people have to do that.  I will keep updating on how things are going, I hope things are alright with you, CB? xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on January 20, 2020, 05:20:33 AM
Well I did conk out completely yesterday; everything caught up with me and I spent the entire day on the sofa and then slept on the sofa as well.  But I do feel like I'm working constructively on sorting this out now, and that's a big help.  I hadn't realised I had a constant heaviness in my chest until it went away for a few days last week, and I hadn't realised how constantly my inner voice criticises every little thing that I do - I should have washed up earlier, I should have cut the grass, I should have paid that bill by now, I shouldn't wear those clothes, my hair is a mess, and on and on it goes.  It's very definitely linked to childhood; my mum and step-dad both just criticised endlessly, it didn't matter what we did, it was always wrong in some way.  I hadn't realised the power of it until it stopped for those few days; I've been aware of it but kind of thought that ignoring it was enough.  But now I can see it adds to the emotional weight I carry with me and weighs me down so I'm hoping that this week's session (it's tomorrow!  I'm excited about it!) will do something to address it.  It would be so amazing if that went away forever.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on January 20, 2020, 09:40:08 AM
Quote
I hadn't realised I had a constant heaviness in my chest until it went away for a few days last week, and I hadn't realised how constantly my inner voice criticises every little thing that I do....

I hadn't realised the power of it until it stopped

Those are such BEAUTIFUL, POWERFUL realizations, Tupp. I'm so glad for you. Even respite, ups and downs, two steps forward plus one step back = FORWARD ... it's just all so much more hopeful and life begins to contain possibility, peace.

It's like it's as human to relax as to fear, to smile as to weep, to enjoy sunshine as to shiver. But when the latter are happening (too much or too relentlessly) the nervous system forgets it has a repertoire!

It sounds to me as though you've rediscovered a repertoire that's innate and lovely and the real birthright of everyone.

I'm singing along....

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on January 21, 2020, 01:48:01 PM
Quote
I hadn't realised I had a constant heaviness in my chest until it went away for a few days last week, and I hadn't realised how constantly my inner voice criticises every little thing that I do....

I hadn't realised the power of it until it stopped

Those are such BEAUTIFUL, POWERFUL realizations, Tupp. I'm so glad for you. Even respite, ups and downs, two steps forward plus one step back = FORWARD ... it's just all so much more hopeful and life begins to contain possibility, peace.

It's like it's as human to relax as to fear, to smile as to weep, to enjoy sunshine as to shiver. But when the latter are happening (too much or too relentlessly) the nervous system forgets it has a repertoire!

It sounds to me as though you've rediscovered a repertoire that's innate and lovely and the real birthright of everyone.

I'm singing along....

hugs
Hops

Thank you, Hops, thank you for singing along!  Lol :)

Second session today.  She spent quite a lot of time explaining what we'd be doing and why, what the bits of equipment do and so on.  Then we spent some time setting up safe spaces and things to anchor onto when necessary - a place that felt safe, and then three people, animals or things that meant protection, nurture and wisdom to me.  Talked about that for a little while and then, because there wasn't too much of the session left, we picked something that wasn't a terrible trauma to start working on (so that we wouldn't have to stop half way through).

It's hard to describe what happened because it is quite hard to capture it and explain it in a way that makes sense.  I choose an incident from school days which I think I've talked about on here, about coming home on the train with friends and them all going off and leaving me on my own?  It's not something that troubles me day to day but if I think about it I can still feel it and picture it happening, so we went with that.

We kind of did it in layers (I don't know if this is the same way you're doing it, Lighter?).  So we started with that memory and how that felt at the time and then worked on what came up.  We went through the feelings I had at the time (shame, confusion, humiliation), then physical feelings (so much weight in my chest.  Then sick to my stomach, aching and so on).  And suddenly it wasn't that that was a big deal at all; I was eight years old and my mum had just told me my dad was leaving.  He hugged me and my sister goodbye and we went to school as if nothing had happened.  No-one spoke about it, there was no preparation, no discussion, no-one even bothered to ask if we were okay.  I remember not even crying, just feeling numb, feeling scared (because he used to protect us) and feeling very responsible for my sister, because now I'd have to protect her if he wasn't there.

We worked through that, sadness, tears, a deep sense of loss - and then anger.  Very deep, very potent rage and I was honestly genuinely surprised, I really had no idea that was in there.  Then physical sensations came up - pain in the back of my head and something like cramps in my legs.  Carried on some more - and it was all kind of neutral?  I had a tingling sensation in my calves for a while - not unpleasant, just unusual.  And then it was the end of the session and I think it had all kind of come out.

I don't feel lighter in an uplifting way, the way I did last week, but it feels like a chunk of something - some sort of negative anchor, perhaps - isn't there now.  Weirdly, it honestly feels like something that was in my stomach isn't there now - left hand side feels empty, but if you'd asked me yesterday if I had some sort of lump in there I'd have said no.  But because it isn't there now I've noticed it.  Very weird, but in a good way.

We'll see what happens now!  I feel calm, tired, but in a relaxed way rather than a worn out or overwhelmed way.  Having a quiet evening and I will let you all know how things feel tomorrow! xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on January 21, 2020, 11:16:58 PM
Just AMAZING.

You're like a pioneer in your own essential self, in your own body.

Exploring, discovering.

I am awed.

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on January 22, 2020, 02:40:51 AM
Just AMAZING.

You're like a pioneer in your own essential self, in your own body.

Exploring, discovering.

I am awed.

hugs
Hops

Aw, thanks, Hops :)  The support of all of you on here means so much to me, I really can't put it into words.  You are all my port in the storm.

Anyway - slept pretty well.  The evening was uneventful, just did dinner and watched a bit of TV before bed.  Woke up this morning just feeling a bit sad and empty, and very achy, as if I've been on a long walk or over done the exercise.  Really didn't fancy the usual rush to get ready and get out the door to do the first of my eight buses that are required on a college day and was trying to psyche myself up for it and get on with the day.  And then I thought to myself - no.  Yesterday I relived my dad leaving, only months before he died, and I have just never felt safe since that day.  Nor have I ever been asked how it was, was I okay, no-one even put their arm around me and gave my shoulder a squeeze.  Even taking into account different parenting styles through the generations and the traditional British stiff upper lip, I cannot imagine watching my son say goodbye to someone he loved and then just dropping him off at school and acting like nothing had happened.

So I have decided to look after myself today the way I wish someone had looked after me back then.  Lots of kindness and nurture and doing things at a slow pace.  I told son when he got up that I wasn't feeling well so wouldn't be able to take him in to college.  He has woken up full of cold anyway so a day off is probably better for him, too.  We've got enough food in to sort out meals without having to worry about going anywhere so a day of snuggling and staying inside in the warm is on the cards :)  I feel glad that I'm feeling able to take care of myself without having to force the issue.  It just feels like the right thing to do.  Slow and gentle adjustment, rather than battling on regardless.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on January 22, 2020, 11:02:53 AM
Hi, Tupp:

I'm glad you made a connection with your new T.

DD found one this week too!  Yay!

Having things explained, the way your T is explaining to you, helps move forward much faster and more easily, IME.  It helps bring lasting change and teach us to help ourselves, which is amazing.

:nodding::

Keep us updated.  Very exciting!

lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on January 23, 2020, 03:19:24 AM
Hi, Tupp:

I'm glad you made a connection with your new T.

DD found one this week too!  Yay!

Having things explained, the way your T is explaining to you, helps move forward much faster and more easily, IME.  It helps bring lasting change and teach us to help ourselves, which is amazing.

:nodding::

Keep us updated.  Very exciting!

lighter

Thanks, Lighter :)  Glad DD has found someone as well.  It does help to have people explain things, as you say.  I find it much easier to concentrate on what I'm doing if I understand why I'm doing it.  It makes more sense to me and cuts down on my 'what if' questions.

Yesterday was a tough day.  I have to admit I was a bit disappointed - because I'd felt so good after the session last week I'd kind of assumed that I'd come bouncing out each time and eventually just bounce constantly.  So I did feel a little bit disappointed that wasn't the case, but I'm aware that I need to be realistic and acknowledge that it isn't magic, we're still working through tough stuff, just (hopefully) in a quicker and more productive way.  I decided to just go with it and barely moved off the sofa all day, apart from a little walk with son in the afternoon.  I struggle with days like that, because I know not getting things done stresses me out.  But equally I think I need to learn to listen to my body more and not force myself through things so much, so I let it go and did very little.

The sense of loss and the ache for my dad was very real and very present, and when I closed my eyes I was literally back in our house when we were kids, at the bottom of the stairs with his arms around me on the day he left.  I could feel him and smell him and I just felt so numb.  What struck me is that I've never felt the same sense of loss with my mum.  I've missed having a family, but more the ideal of a family, not the one I actually had.  I haven't looked back and wished I could recreate a moment with her, without it meaning a huge change in her behaviour.  I don't have that with my dad, and I feel very lucky to have those good memories of him, few that they are.

Little things have started making sense.  I feel a sense of panic if there is little food in the house.  I think this stems from the time the police reported me to social services after I'd reported my step-dad to them.  There wasn't much in the fridge as I shopped day to day (still do most of the time) and it was one of the things they flagged up.  I feel anxious every time I open the fridge door and see there's not much in there.  There doesn't need to be; we've three shops within a ten minute walk and about another twenty within a ten minute bus ride, so shopping day to day gives son practise at life skills, gives us a bit of exercise and cuts down on wasted food.  It's sensible, yet that anxiety crops up and I think that's where it's from.  Similarly, the paralysis that I experience (like yesterday, when I barely moved) stems, I think, from the first time my step dad assaulted me.  We were on holiday at a caravan park at the time, and I remember that every time we went on holiday after that, I never used to clean my teeth for the whole time we were there.  I suppose, sub consciously, I was trying to put him off kissing me.  Isn't it weird how we do things and have behaviours for years and don't realise why?  I think it stems from that, almost that sense of 'If I keep completely still, no-one can see me'.  If I don't move off the sofa, nothing bad can happen (I did clean my teeth yesterday, though :) ).

Phew.  Hard work.  Revelations.  I didn't sleep too well last night but feel better than I did yesterday so will try to crack on a bit through the day.  Son and I have a book date!  They've started a scheme at the local library where you can book an appointment with the librarian and discuss books over tea and cake :)  I tried to book son on to it but they were fully booked, so we've arranged our own outing today to discuss books over cake and hot chocolate and then go book shopping.  So I will have to leave the house for that and I'll enjoy it.

I also suggested to son yesterday that we both learn as much as we can about computers and IT and then, when we know enough, we can teach other people.  I've an idea at the back of my mind that, once I've got son's at-home, tech based programme up and running, we could extend it and start teaching small groups of adults with learning disabilities useful tech skills, and things like digital photography and short film making, as an alternative or addition to the gardening and car washing that they all seem to be expected to do at the moment. He thinks it's a great idea so I feel better about offering him an alternative to college that he'll enjoy and do well at.

That's all for today!  Will report back later :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: CB123 on January 23, 2020, 11:03:23 AM
Your IT idea is a good one, Tupp. I think you and your son could really make an impact on your community with that and it sounds like he would enjoy it for its own sake as well.

I know this kind of work is slow and painstaking, but I do see a correlation between this idea that you have and the work you are doing. Be patient! I think some breakthroughs are coming!

CB
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on January 23, 2020, 11:29:29 AM
Your IT idea is a good one, Tupp. I think you and your son could really make an impact on your community with that and it sounds like he would enjoy it for its own sake as well.

I know this kind of work is slow and painstaking, but I do see a correlation between this idea that you have and the work you are doing. Be patient! I think some breakthroughs are coming!

CB

Lol, thanks, CB, I long for breakthroughs!  I like the IT idea as well; something we can both work at, son is great at explaining technical things to people because his brain is so logical and he has the most amazing memory.  I'm good at ideas and finding resources and explaining things in different ways so I think we'd make a good team.

Today was a better day.  I worked quite solidly from 8am to 4pm, I've got a nice roast dinner to put on it a bit and now have the evening free to do a bit of whatever :)  I'm not having the same 'oh my goodness I feel good' feeling that I did last week but I do feel better than I did yesterday - calmer and clearer headed which is nice :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on January 23, 2020, 06:00:50 PM
Wow, Tupp. Just WOW.

You are making connections with such great emotional logic (stillness on sofa, couch) and there's a bright energy in it as I read it. Like, some of the liberated energy that went for so long into encapsulating you is being freed up for INSIGHT.

INSIGHT is different than cataloguing and control. It's the most potent and beautiful thing and I'm seeing you have a lot of it.

I am genuinely still thrilled for you.

I'm also very impressed that you thought so rationally about why you didn't have the "high" of your first discoveries replicate itself or clone itself precisely with each later session. That is REAL thinking and HEALTHY expectation.

Knowing that two steps forward + one step back really DOES still = FORWARD is so important. This realization carries peace.

I'm so proud of you. I hope you are prouder.

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on January 23, 2020, 07:11:36 PM
Hi, Tupp:

I'm glad you made a connection with your new T.

DD found one this week too!  Yay!

Having things explained, the way your T is explaining to you, helps move forward much faster and more easily, IME.  It helps bring lasting change and teach us to help ourselves, which is amazing.

:nodding::

Keep us updated.  Very exciting!

lighter

Thanks, Lighter :)  Glad DD has found someone as well.  It does help to have people explain things, as you say.  I find it much easier to concentrate on what I'm doing if I understand why I'm doing it.  It makes more sense to me and cuts down on my 'what if' questions.  Yup yup yup.

Yesterday was a tough day.  I have to admit I was a bit disappointed - because I'd felt so good after the session last week I'd kind of assumed that I'd come bouncing out each time and eventually just bounce constantly.  So I did feel a little bit disappointed that wasn't the case, but I'm aware that I need to be realistic and acknowledge that it isn't magic, we're still working through tough stuff, just (hopefully) in a quicker and more productive way.

My view of T, at this point, is.... we use one appointment to identify something that needs attention, then the next appointment to work through it, which feels AMAZING every time.  I used to spend time wishing every appointment could be magic, but sometimes we go places that surprise and amaze me... lead to something I didn't know was there.   Just very productive on the whole, even if they can't all be processing really difficult problematic emotions that pop up consistently in my life, kwim? I decided to just go with it and barely moved off the sofa all day, apart from a little walk with son in the afternoon.  I struggle with days like that, because I know not getting things done stresses me out. My T would say ego and judgment are involved.... I think.
 She'd ask me to be super compassionate and pay close nonjudgmental attention to what's going on in and around me.
But equally I think I need to learn to listen to my body more and not force myself through things so much, so I let it go and did very little.  And that's what you needed to be doing.  Tending to yourself in the way you needed to be tended to.  No good or right way, particularly based on old standards and voices in our heads, right?  Just paying attention and noticing.... holding ourselves with deep compassion.  It goes in and out of focus for me, but I notice gets easier.

The sense of loss and the ache for my dad was very real and very present, and when I closed my eyes I was literally back in our house when we were kids, at the bottom of the stairs with his arms around me on the day he left.  I could feel him and smell him and I just felt so numb. ((((Tupp))))  What struck me is that I've never felt the same sense of loss with my mum. That's understandable, IMO.  Completely. I've missed having a family, but more the idea of a family, not the one I actually had.  I haven't looked back and wished I could recreate a moment with her, without it meaning a huge change in her behavior.  I don't have that with my dad, and I feel very lucky to have those good memories of him, few that they are. 

I wonder if it would be helpful to go back and recreate some touching memories with your mother for little Tupp.... she so deserved a less broken mother and I've found changing and replacing memories to be a very helpful tool for my journey.  I don't know.  Maybe my wanting that for you is the wrong thing for your journey, but I want to say share what comes up for me.

Little things have started making sense.  I feel a sense of panic if there is little food in the house.  I think this stems from the time the police reported me to social services after I'd reported my step-dad to them.  There wasn't much in the fridge as I shopped day to day (still do most of the time) and it was one of the things they flagged up.  I feel anxious every time I open the fridge door and see there's not much in there. Grrrrrrr.... I feel so helpless for you, having had people poking around in my fridge too. There doesn't need to be; we've three shops within a ten minute walk and about another twenty within a ten minute bus ride, so shopping day to day gives son practise at life skills, gives us a bit of exercise and cuts down on wasted food.  It's sensible, yet that anxiety crops up and I think that's where it's from. And that's SO unfair, makes zero sense and couldn't be farther from the stupid things people assume when directed by harmful PD individuals who want to do us harm.  Good Lord, Tupp.... that was so unfair. Similarly, the paralysis that I experience (like yesterday, when I barely moved) stems, I think, from the first time my step dad assaulted me.  We were on holiday at a caravan park at the time, and I remember that every time we went on holiday after that, I never used to clean my teeth for the whole time we were there.  I suppose, sub consciously, I was trying to put him off kissing me.  Isn't it weird how we do things and have behaviours for years and don't realise why?  I think it stems from that, almost that sense of 'If I keep completely still, no-one can see me'.  If I don't move off the sofa, nothing bad can happen (I did clean my teeth yesterday, though :) ).  You're so strong to have brought those charges against him.... report his crimes.... TELL on him.  Even though the system's broken, you did everything you could do and that's enough (((Tupp.)))That's all you can do and I'm in awe of your perseverance and resilience.
 Truly.  Good job connecting dots and SEEING the truth. 


Phew.  Hard work.  Revelations.  I didn't sleep too well last night but feel better than I did yesterday so will try to crack on a bit through the day.  Son and I have a book date!  They've started a scheme at the local library where you can book an appointment with the librarian and discuss books over tea and cake :)  My girls and I loved spending time in the stacks too!  It's an adventure, a quiet respite, a chance to explore and adding tea and cake, whoo hoo!  That's an outing I'd love to attend.I tried to book son on to it but they were fully booked, so we've arranged our own outing today to discuss books over cake and hot chocolate and then go book shopping.  So I will have to leave the house for that and I'll enjoy it.  ::Swooning over that outint::. Again, you make your son's life so much more fulfilling and rich and you're always thinking things through to create growth and learning opportunities.   You're an amazing human being.  I hope you believe that.  I imagine you creating these kinds of experiences for others.... your son can share, teach and engage in them too, as with the IT idea below.  Yes: )

I also suggested to son yesterday that we both learn as much as we can about computers and IT and then, when we know enough, we can teach other people.  I've an idea at the back of my mind that, once I've got son's at-home, tech based programme up and running, we could extend it and start teaching small groups of adults with learning disabilities useful tech skills, and things like digital photography and short film making, as an alternative or addition to the gardening and car washing that they all seem to be expected to do at the moment. He thinks it's a great idea so I feel better about offering him an alternative to college that he'll enjoy and do well at.

That's all for today!  Will report back later :) xx  BIG days, Tupp.
 And when they feeeeel small, remember there are discoveries in the quiet still moments you'll learn from.  SElf compassion, nonjudgmental focus... leaning into curiosity about everything inside and around you.  Again, yes: )

Lighter

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on January 24, 2020, 02:22:25 PM
My view of T, at this point, is.... we use one appointment to identify something that needs attention, then the next appointment to work through it, which feels AMAZING every time.  I used to spend time wishing every appointment could be magic, but sometimes we go places that surprise and amaze me... lead to something I didn't know was there.   Just very productive on the whole, even if they can't all be processing really difficult problematic emotions that pop up consistently in my life, kwim?

Yes, I think that desire for a magic ending to it all is very strong and soooo desirable!  I was amazed about how much of my dad leaving was still in there, almost forty years later.  But it does feel productive, it sounds strange but I've always felt like there are holes inside me, empty spaces that need filling and it feels like it's filled a couple of them in.  I just feel a little bit more secure, a little bit more grounded, a little bit less empty and rootless.  Which I think can only be a good thing.

My T would say ego and judgment are involved.... I think.

Yes, I think that's right, we must be perfect, we must get it right, we must be better than others.  That's always a thing with me, not putting myself in a position where I can be criticised, which I think is ego?  I did a lot yesterday, to make up for doing nothing the day before, and I've left myself very tired today.  I need to work on balancing that out, so that even when I do feel good, I don't overdo things.

I wonder if it would be helpful to go back and recreate some touching memories with your mother for little Tupp.... she so deserved a less broken mother and I've found changing and replacing memories to be a very helpful tool for my journey.  I don't know.  Maybe my wanting that for you is the wrong thing for your journey, but I want to say share what comes up for me.


I think that would be helpful, Lighter.  I was thinking about it today, and my mum did do nice things for us, but she didn't do nice things with us.  And I think that's the difference, my dad did things with us - there was warmth and interaction.  My mum cleaned, cooked, paid bills, all of which are nice things that kids are only aware of if they don't happen, so we were lucky in that respect.  She made a fuss on birthdays and at Christmas, we got lots of presents and treats.  And she did things like book concert tickets as a surprise, or just something little like bringing us a cake home when she went shopping sometimes.  All of which are nice things and I do appreciate and am grateful for them, but I can't remember a single thing she did with us - read a story, watch a cartoon, play a game, even just ask about school or want to know what our homework was or anything like that.  So perhaps I should just make some interactions up and see what that does.  It's a good suggestion, thank you :)

Yep, the police thing was a real kick in the teeth.  They didn't even question him.  They said they wanted to check the house because I'd told them about my mum's false allegations in the past and they said they would check so they could say everything was alright if she reported me again.  And then they reported me.  Their list of concerns was - my son was wearing pyjamas (no word of a lie, it's in the report.  He was wearing his pyjamas and it was daytime.  Seriously.).  The food thing - there was food in the house, just not masses of it but enough for a couple of days and in this day and age when you can order everything to be delivered there just isn't a need to keep a fully stocked pantry - we don't generally have the kind of weather here where you're housebound for three months over the winter.  She claimed we didn't have a single book in the house although he was home educated.  I counted his books when I found out that's what she'd claimed  - he had 326.  I hadn't washed the breakfast dishes up (two bowls and cups on the side by the sink).  And the sofa cushions didn't have any covers on them (they were in the washing machine because my son had spilt his drink on them that morning).  Those were her concerns - when she'd been given a report of a man who sexually abused a girl from the age of twelve.  Some people's priorities are just messed up.  Phew.  Feels both good and disgusting to write that down.

Ah, the book adventure was great, we went to the second hand bookshops first just for a look, then to the computer game shops just to look at what's there and then on to his favourite book shop where he bought a new Lego book.  Then we headed to a new cafe for tea and cake, it was lovely, although to be fair not too much book discussion as he was too busy eating his cake :)  It was nice, though, and he'll hopefully be doing the proper one at the library next month.

Thanks, Lighter.  It's really helpful having you doing the EMDR, it's good to be able to compare notes :)  I'm looking forward to the next appointment, it feels like the right thing to be working on now and I'm looking forward to seeing where we go with it.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on January 24, 2020, 11:48:02 PM
My view of T, at this point, is.... we use one appointment to identify something that needs attention, then the next appointment to work through it, which feels AMAZING every time.  I used to spend time wishing every appointment could be magic, but sometimes we go places that surprise and amaze me... lead to something I didn't know was there.   Just very productive on the whole, even if they can't all be processing really difficult problematic emotions that pop up consistently in my life, kwim?

Yes, I think that desire for a magic ending to it all is very strong and soooo desirable!  I was amazed about how much of my dad leaving was still in there, almost forty years later.  But it does feel productive, it sounds strange but I've always felt like there are holes inside me, empty spaces that need filling and it feels like it's filled a couple of them in.  I just feel a little bit more secure, a little bit more grounded, a little bit less empty and rootless.  Which I think can only be a good thing.  Little Lighter wants Little Tupp's daddy to beat the living crap out of PD Stepdad!  Maybe worse, but that's little L's rageful desire when she thinks about her best and highest outcome for Little Tupp's situation.
 To be rescued by a trusted, powerful, caring spirit who appeared to protect and save her from the monsters.  I wonder if your T will go to a place where you're asked how you'd change the sitation... how you'd resolve it if you could cast a spell and change anything and everything about the situation, top to bottom.


My T would say ego and judgment are involved.... I think.

Yes, I think that's right, we must be perfect, we must get it right, we must be better than others.  That's always a thing with me, not putting myself in a position where I can be criticised, which I think is ego?  I did a lot yesterday, to make up for doing nothing the day before, and I've left myself very tired today.  I need to work on balancing that out, so that even when I do feel good, I don't overdo things.  Do you really need to?  Maybe you just invite yourself to visit that topic, with compassion and patience.  WHen you're ready it will happen. 

I wonder if it would be helpful to go back and recreate some touching memories with your mother for little Tupp.... she so deserved a less broken mother and I've found changing and replacing memories to be a very helpful tool for my journey.  I don't know.  Maybe my wanting that for you is the wrong thing for your journey, but I want to say share what comes up for me.


I think that would be helpful, Lighter.  I was thinking about it today, and my mum did do nice things for us, but she didn't do nice things with us.  And I think that's the difference, my dad did things with us - there was warmth and interaction.  My mum cleaned, cooked, paid bills, all of which are nice things that kids are only aware of if they don't happen, so we were lucky in that respect.  She made a fuss on birthdays and at Christmas, we got lots of presents and treats.  And she did things like book concert tickets as a surprise, or just something little like bringing us a cake home when she went shopping sometimes.  All of which are nice things and I do appreciate and am grateful for them, but I can't remember a single thing she did with us - read a story, watch a cartoon, play a game, even just ask about school or want to know what our homework was or anything like that.  So perhaps I should just make some interactions up and see what that does.  It's a good suggestion, thank you :) It breaks my heart that your mother was so broken she couldn't connect with her children, or SEE she was missing out on important connection.  She was so broken.  I wonder what her childhood was like.  I wonder if her parenting efforts were much better than the parenting she received.   I've experienced that from extended family members who were abused and couldn't connect ANY dots regarding their own pretty abusive parenting, bc it was 90% better than what they'd received.  They couldn't see it.  Would never be able to see it.  It was a blind spot.... nothing at all to do with their beautiful children.   Personal brokeness they carried with them despite available love and possibility for connection. 

Yep, the police thing was a real kick in the teeth.  Grrrrrr.  The wrong teeth.They didn't even question him.  They said they wanted to check the house because I'd told them about my mum's false allegations in the past and they said they would check so they could say everything was alright if she reported me again.  And then they reported me.  GRRRR.Their list of concerns was - my son was wearing pyjamas (no word of a lie, it's in the report. I understand this kind of nutsy koo crazy thinking intimately, Tupp. He was wearing his pyjamas and it was daytime.  Seriously.). grrr The food thing - there was food in the house, just not masses of it but enough for a couple of days and in this day and age when you can order everything to be delivered there just isn't a need to keep a fully stocked pantry - we don't generally have the kind of weather here where you're housebound for three months over the winter.  She claimed we didn't have a single book in the house although he was home educated. Broken, disordered bat.  I counted his books when I found out that's what she'd claimed  - he had 326.  I hadn't washed the breakfast dishes up (two bowls and cups on the side by the sink).  And the sofa cushions didn't have any covers on them (they were in the washing machine because my son had spilt his drink on them that morning).  Those were her concerns - when she'd been given a report of a man who sexually abused a girl from the age of twelve.  Some people's priorities are just messed up.  Phew.  Feels both good and disgusting to write that down.  You write away, Tupp.  Your story is relevant and important and I believe every syllable.  I also believe the PDs manipulated, bought off and lied their way through the police questions.  It's a recurring thing, IME, but on some level THEY KNOW.  I think they worry they'll go to hell.   I think they might should worry.

Ah, the book adventure was great, we went to the second-hand bookshops first just for a look, then to the computer game shops just to look at what's there and then on to his favorite book shop where he bought a new Lego book.  Then we headed to a new cafe for tea and cake, it was lovely, although to be fair not too much book discussion as he was too busy eating his cake :) One of those moments where we don't get what we want... but we get what we need; ) It was nice, though, and he'll hopefully be doing the proper one at the library next month.  I'm excited for him.  What fun!

Thanks, Lighter.  It's really helpful having you doing the EMDR, it's good to be able to compare notes :)  I'm looking forward to the next appointment, it feels like the right thing to be working on now and I'm looking forward to seeing where we go with it.  I think I'm about done shaking my fist at ghosts and unresolved emotions for a bit.  I lost a bit of ground, but have perspective and deeper understanding around old processes and new.  Watching myself make choices I would rather not choose.... is interesting if I drop all judgment around it and get very curious. Stop telling myself what I NEED to do, bc I'll do what I need when the time's right.  I'm just fine as I am and I'm giving my brain a chance to feel safe, calm down and do what it does best.  To pull my face off the glass even as I'm noticing my face is UP against glass.... and that's not where I want to be.  I know how to get off that glass.  I'll do it when I'm ready and that will be the right time.  It's OK. 

I feel fortunate to walk this path with you.  To see how you're processing and interpreting your EMDR sessions.  What you gain and learn is helpful to me too.  Lighter

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on January 27, 2020, 03:14:25 AM
Lighter, thank you.  I'm just replying quickly as I have the worst cold I've ever known and am constantly coughing and blowing my nose :)  But have read what you wrote and nodded all the way through it.  My mum did have an awful childhood, her mother was very cold and unfeeling and, from various things that my mum said and did over the years, I suspect she may have been sexually abused as well.  Add to that two divorces (in an era when women got married and nothing else mattered), forty years of alcohol abuse, not having access to a higher level of education (again, just through being female) and possibly undiagnosed Autism as well and the way she is makes sense.  Bizarrely I have been really missing her this last couple of days and really felt like I wanted to hug her and look after her.  Our emotions are such bizarre, illogical things sometimes.  I will not, of course, be acting on those feelings, but I really do wish that she finds some way to reconnect with herself just a bit before she passes.  Even just to accept some unconditional comfort (which she never believes is real, she always thinks people are after something from her).  Perhaps once all the EMDR is done and I am feeling robust, settled in my new home, working and son is happy, I might feel able to write to her, without an agenda, and just accept whatever the outcome is.  Who knows?  For now, I am drinking honey and lemon, constantly stuffing tissues up my nose and smothering myself with Vicks.  Do you have Vicks in the States?  Menthol body rub, it's been around for decades here, you slap it all over your chest and it clears your nose :)  That reminds me of being a child, possibly because the only time my mum did really interact was when we were ill - she'd give us cough medicine in the night and rub Vicks on our chest and back.  Funny how these things link together.  I will write more later :)  I hope you have a great time on the Island xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on January 27, 2020, 05:22:48 PM
Awwwww, sorry you're suffering with "the cold" as youngest dd used to say when she was 5yo. 

"I have....
the cold." 
SO. 
Cute.

Yup, we have Vicks too.  I'd do more than open and sniff it if my mucous membranes trusted me enough to handle it. Sadly, they can't.

I hope you feel better soon.  My guilty pleasure is Nyquil for sleeping through miserable nights. 

I'm sending you protection, feelings of safety and intestinal fortitude to do good work with your T. 

I think we are safe now, Tupp.
Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on January 29, 2020, 04:45:39 AM
Awwwww, sorry you're suffering with "the cold" as youngest dd used to say when she was 5yo. 

"I have....
the cold." 
SO. 
Cute.

Yup, we have Vicks too.  I'd do more than open and sniff it if my mucous membranes trusted me enough to handle it. Sadly, they can't.

I hope you feel better soon.  My guilty pleasure is Nyquil for sleeping through miserable nights. 

I'm sending you protection, feelings of safety and intestinal fortitude to do good work with your T. 

I think we are safe now, Tupp.
Lighter

Thank you, Lighter, I appreciate this so much :)  And I am now a walking Vicks Vapour Rub :) Lol.

'The cold' (love that!) is abating.  Have never had a cold that bad.  Son hasn't been in to college as I've not had the strength to get out the door and get him there and back.  But it's easing off now, the fever has gone (I was so hot on Sunday that I thought I'd caught that Chinese Flu that's doing the rounds lol) and I'm just coughing and sniffing with a lot of aches and pains, mostly from being hunched up on the sofa and coughing so much.  At one point I coughed, sneezed and farted all at the same time lol, this has not been a good time to be around me!

But I do feel like 'something' has kind of gone out of me.  Head is calmer.  Anxiety has reduced.  Weather was awful yesterday but is lovely and sunny today.  The birds are very happy feeding in the tree out front and son and I are heading to the shop in a minute to stock up on a few groceries.

Kitty cat had surgery at the beginning of the week; lots of teeth removed and they were very late in contacting me to say they'd finished so I was worried she hadn't made it through.  But she's fine, eating well, a bit miffed at not being allowed out for a while but other than that all okay and we had a nice cuddle last night.

I didn't go for my T appointment yesterday as I was so ill; I cancelled the day before and she was fine with that.  I will go next week, slightly worried that each release might unleash another cold!  So I think we'll work on another minor one next time and see how we get on.

Fingers crossed we are going to dance church again this Sunday; I am looking forward to that.  And planning a few days away to visit friends towards the end of Feb as well.

Will report as more comes along! xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on January 29, 2020, 11:34:24 AM
We have dance church here too, TUPP!  I was just talking to my aunt about all the different kinds of church she chould attend, as she's very sure she'd hate them all.

Celtic candlelit services.  Very small afternoon widows only services.  DANCE church!
Lots to choose from.  Tell me what you like about it.  Sometimes I hear people lean on you too much.  Do you guys bounce off each other or stay in your own properly British spaces?

I'm glad "the cold" is loosening it's grip on you.  I try to take those xylitol nose drops to head off a secondary infection, but I'm usually too pitiful to remember them when really sick.  They were the difference in getting over a terrible sinus infection that lasted FOREVER in 2014, I'll say that.  I was a believer.  I have them.  I should use them.

You heal up and think about what you want to talk to the T about next week.

Fartsneezcough away.  You're on the mend!  Maybe enjoy an epson salt bath. 

::feeling Tupp's brow and bringing her broth with rice and fresh parsley flakes::
Self care, ((Tupp))

Lighter 
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on January 31, 2020, 05:44:07 AM
We have dance church here too, TUPP!  I was just talking to my aunt about all the different kinds of church she chould attend, as she's very sure she'd hate them all.

Celtic candlelit services.  Very small afternoon widows only services.  DANCE church!
Lots to choose from.  Tell me what you like about it.  Sometimes I hear people lean on you too much.  Do you guys bounce off each other or stay in your own properly British spaces?

I'm glad "the cold" is loosening it's grip on you.  I try to take those xylitol nose drops to head off a secondary infection, but I'm usually too pitiful to remember them when really sick.  They were the difference in getting over a terrible sinus infection that lasted FOREVER in 2014, I'll say that.  I was a believer.  I have them.  I should use them.

You heal up and think about what you want to talk to the T about next week.

Fartsneezcough away.  You're on the mend!  Maybe enjoy an epson salt bath. 

::feeling Tupp's brow and bringing her broth with rice and fresh parsley flakes::
Self care, ((Tupp))

Lighter

Ah, Lighter, thank you!  The cold is starting to go; I have a bad back from all the coughing but I'm doing yoga and epsom baths and it will ease :)

The dance church is the one at the commune we visited and what I loved about it was that everyone just danced and had a nice time.  No agenda, no structure, no demands - the music starts and you move, sway, sit and breath, pop in and out, admire the view, have a glass of water, whatever you want.  I enjoyed it and am looking forward to going again.

The cold's clearing and my fuzzy head is clearing with it.  My mind feels clearer than usual.  I'm sitting for quite long periods getting through paperwork, emails, booking things for son and so on.  The days aren't feeling as muddy and pressured as they normally do which I'm assuming is down to the EMDR so I'm looking forward to doing more work at the session next week.  I just feel like the 'other' voices in my mind have piped down a bit, which is nice :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on January 31, 2020, 12:47:42 PM
Tupp, so glad you're beginning to feel better physically.

I still see that lightness coming through and it warms my heart.

It's like after years of heaviness there's actually a sense, in reading your recent posts, of a true change shift.

Couldn't be happier for you, hon.

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: sKePTiKal on January 31, 2020, 01:39:48 PM
Excellent news Tupp! I'm glad the therapy is going well.

I do have to say, I have about the same reaction as Lighter, reading your story. But despite the similarities and differences, I think universally we all came out of those situations with some amazing skills and an appreciation for the fact people can and DO change, with enough "practice" and patience and insight.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on February 03, 2020, 02:15:41 AM
Thank you all, so much, I really appreciate the support :)  I might need to change my name to Mrs Serenity Pants :)  Dance church was amazing!

We hired a car for the whole weekend now that we don't have our own, so did quite a few different things on Saturday.  I noticed I was starting to run over 'bad stuff' in my head before we left for the day and realised I was anxious, even though we were doing easy stuff that son likes, in places we know well.  I tried to just notice it and see it was there (I am paying attention to what you write, Lighter :) lol ).  It carried on through the morning and what I noticed was it's just very tiring.  It makes everything you're doing more tiring.

One of the kids at swimming had a massive meltdown and I watched her parents - who have two autistic daughters - cope with it admirably, but I could see the strain on the mum's face in particular, and I noticed I was feeling quite hostile and judgemental towards them.  I pondered that some more, and I think it took me back to those times when my son was small and I was often judged and criticised for the things he did and the way I handled it (and I often judged myself and handled it badly, too).  Once I realised that, I was able to feel more compassionate and focus on how hard it had been for me, so I could be more supportive to them (I gave the mum a hug when we left and had a chat with the dad outside while he waited for the kids to come out).  We went out in the evening to a local wrestling match - it's more like a pantomime really, they have a goodie and a baddie in each bout, it's very stage and almost more like slapstick than anything else, lots of falling over and tumbling out of the ring and so on.  We were sat there and I was watching everyone else joining in with the singing and the cheering and some people were shouting out things from the crowd and I felt very disconnected and wished I was at home with my book and a cup of tea, with the cat curled up on me.  I realised I don't remember how to have fun anymore.  Since having son, I've not had any time at all where I can just enjoy myself and not be thinking about him, or what I need to do while he's somewhere else, or just been trying to cope with feeling awful or lonely or worried or whatever.  It has been an endless, eighteen year slog - not because of him, simply because I've just not had a good, supportive network around me.  So I felt tired and dejected when we got home, didn't sleep very well and very nearly didn't go to Dance Church, because I was tired and achy, and still coughing and sneezing a bit.  But we did go :)

It's just so lovely.  We walked in, all the doors to the property are unlocked and people wander in and out as they please when there's a community event on.  We stopped to take off our shoes and other people were coming in the door, some were coming from upstairs and others were coming from inside the house to go up to the event room (this is all happening in a space smaller than a dining table).  Everyone is happy and friendly, hi, hello, how you doing?  We've only been once before but two people greeted us like old friends.  One guy commented that his daughter is autistic and we started to chat while son was in the loo.  It turns out that this man who looks to be fifty is actually seventy and he attributes it to dancing :) We went up and as it was Imbolc (pagan festival of Spring) they'd made a little alter in front of the DJ set up, there was some sage on the go and someone had made raw chocolate treats so son was happy.  He didn't want to join in so sat on his blanket with his book and no-one minds.  That's what I really like about it, no-one minds what anyone else does.  One lady spent much of the session sat in a chair next to the wood burner, at one point there were about seven kids all perched on one arm chair.  One of the dads was giving piggy back rides and the kids just seem so happy and are having a lot of fun.  There were two couples there with babies, both wearing ear defenders because of the music but so happy to dance around with their parents and be passed around.  I was watching one couple in particular as their little one reminded me so much of my son at that age, so happy and smiley and just cute.  You could see how loving and supportive they were as parents, to each other as well as the baby, plus they had friends there who were the same, and I thought how different things might have been for us if we'd had loving support instead of endless rows and battles and people trying to do unpleasant things to us.  What was nice was I didn't feel resentful about it, I found myself thinking well, we can do that now.  We can get that loving support around us because these people are showing me that it is out there.

Another thing that I really like is that the men seem very respectful of women, which is something else I'm not entirely used to.  People dance with each other, but the men seem very sensitive to whether a woman wants to dance with them or not.  I've been to some 'spiritual' things where, to me, some of the men seemed very lecherous but it doesn't feel like that here.  It feels comfortable and fun.  It just feels like fun.

So I danced for two hours :)  I felt less anxious than last time, less self conscious, less worried about what other people thought about me.  I started to wonder what it might be possible to achieve in life without constant criticism and a feeling of never being good enough.  What might you feel confident enough to do if you knew no-one around was going to mock or humiliate you, or tell everyone else what a failure you were?  Who wouldn't laugh at your dancing, or your clothes or how you had your hair?  How would it feel to have people who give you a hug when you're having a crap time instead of berating you and telling you it was all your own fault?  I think I would like to find out?

The inner me was still present.  I had an overwhelming urge to get up on a step ladder with my long handled feather duster and sort out the cobwebs up on their high ceiling :) There was one couple getting very smoochy and I wanted to chuck cold water over them - a reaction to not being touched for more than a decade, I think :)  So the transformation hasn't taken place just yet :)  Lol.  But I slept eight hours last night, which I hardly ever do, and I woke up this morning wanting to have a nice day and enjoy myself, instead of that constant pressure of the to do list being present.  My bum cheeks are aching like mad, as are my feet, but I can see myself doing some nice yoga to stretch out a bit and then dancing some more.  I actually feel pretty good?  Wow.  It's not very often I can say that lol xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on February 03, 2020, 03:32:09 AM
More later, since it's 3:30am here and ummm....sleep?

But I just want to say, (((((Tupp)))) that this is the happiest thing I've ever seen you write, and it's banging joyfully around my head and heart.

So I danced for two hours


Joy!

Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: CB123 on February 03, 2020, 10:46:06 AM
Tupp,
As usual, I so identify with the long period of time where you have always had your son's welfare in the back of your mind, and have lost touch with complete relaxation. I have experienced that as well, and I'm not sure I'm past it yet myself!

So nice to see you out having fun with him though! Don't worry too much if you couldnt get into the wrestling stuff. It may not be your thing. Not being able to fully enter into the mood of the crowd isnt necessarily a symptom of your ability to have fun. I would rather be home with a cup of tea and book too!

CB
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on February 04, 2020, 10:11:18 AM
Hi again Tupp--
Wanted to add that your description of "dance church" reminded me of the side of the 60s that felt so good at the time...amid the stupidities of war and too many drugs....there were so many gatherings where the prevailing feeling really was love and acceptance. It was joyful at a time when joy was hard to find.

I hope that feeling will come back as people gather together to push back against the social and political darkness that has re-risen. Dance church reminds me it may not prevail.

Flower power!

Hugs,
Hops (on tenterhooks waiting for caucus results)
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on February 04, 2020, 11:33:36 AM
Tupp,
As usual, I so identify with the long period of time where you have always had your son's welfare in the back of your mind, and have lost touch with complete relaxation. I have experienced that as well, and I'm not sure I'm past it yet myself!

So nice to see you out having fun with him though! Don't worry too much if you couldnt get into the wrestling stuff. It may not be your thing. Not being able to fully enter into the mood of the crowd isnt necessarily a symptom of your ability to have fun. I would rather be home with a cup of tea and book too!

CB

CB, that is a good point about the wrestling not being my cup of tea!  You're right, it isn't really my sort of thing, I kind of forget that not everyone likes the same stuff and when I see others feeling very excited by something I wonder why I don't :)  So yes, good point on that one and one I shall keep in mind :)  And yes, constantly thinking about our kids is just such a normal thing that we don't even notice we're doing it.  Even if he's not with me, everything I need to do revolves around him and on the odd time I am just doing something for me, I'm always mindful of the time because he'll need picking up at some point.  And even if someone else were dropping him back I'd need to be home when he got here.  So it does take up your direction constantly and yes, a hard habit to break even if you get to the point where it's no longer needed!  Lol xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on February 04, 2020, 11:53:39 AM
Hi again Tupp--
Wanted to add that your description of "dance church" reminded me of the side of the 60s that felt so good at the time...amid the stupidities of war and too many drugs....there were so many gatherings where the prevailing feeling really was love and acceptance. It was joyful at a time when joy was hard to find.

I hope that feeling will come back as people gather together to push back against the social and political darkness that has re-risen. Dance church reminds me it may not prevail.

Flower power!

Hugs,
Hops (on tenterhooks waiting for caucus results)

Hops I had to look up what caucus meant :)  Lol, yes, interested to know the outcome of that one as well.  And yes, the dance church vibe is very flower power, live and let live.  We had a similar resurgence here in the 90s with the rave culture (which I loved at the time); todays youngsters are doing their thing by focusing on the environment and going vegan.  Each generation has its alternative to capitalism, I think.  I do like the ethos of people mattering, whoever they are and whatever they do.  It's a nice feeling.

Anyway - an EMDR update!  My euphoria from Dance Church had worn off today by the time I'd done laundry, packed lunches, meds (son and cat!), college kit, paid bills, sent emails, four buses to and from college (one of which I was trapped next to someone I know who does nothing but moan) so I was feeling less perky by the time I got to the EMDR appointment.

Recapped what had happened since last seeing her - no emotion from seeing pictures of school bullies, missing dad, missing mum, heavy cold.  She said it was a text book response to releasing old emotion and was a good sign, which was good to hear.  Spent a bit of time chatting through it; she's very good at explaining the science behind it as she goes and I like that.  Felt comfortable and relaxed.

I asked if we could work on another relatively minor issue from childhood in case I get a cold each time I do something!  So we looked at another item I'd written down in our first session, which was the lack of money in childhood.  We talked through it a bit, various emotions, shame, a sense of responsibility, guilt, never being good enough and later, anger at mum (always had money for booze and had all sorts of things from her previous wealthy life that she could have sold - jewellery, antiques, fur coats etc - but refused to be parted from) and anger at self for being too hard on myself when younger.  Various things came up and went again physically and various layers of emotion came up and went quite quickly.  It's an interesting path.  We got to me never feeling good enough, and no-one trying to help or rescue me in anyway - not being enough for anyone to want to bother.  Worked through that quite quickly and then oh my days, step dad was there in all his glory and I wanted to smash his face straight through a brick wall.  I felt sick and anxious and very hot and at that point she stopped the session to check what I wanted to do.  We didn't have very long left so it might have been that we couldn't finish him off and I'd go off home with him larger than life and in my face, but I felt like I wanted to carry on so we did.

The emotions came hard and fast, anger, fear, resentment, not just at him but also at others for not protecting me.  I wanted to go back to little Tupp and get her out of there and we worked on that.  Once she was safe, stepdad was still there, feeling like this big lump in my body that I just couldn't get out - kidney stones came to mind!  We carried on working and he started to shift and his image started to disintegrate.  We worked some more and he was like little particles of dust in front of me and I joked and said I could finish him off with a feather duster.  She handed me a big make up brush (the kind you use for face powder) and said "finish him off with that!".  So I did, I scrubbed at the air and we got down to just a few particles.  I asked her if we could sweep what was left of him into the waste disposal and flush him away and she said, "do it!" and I did.  My legs started to tingle and I felt like I needed to kick them and twirl my feet around.  My neck twitched a couple of times and a pain flared in my hip and then suddenly the tension that I always have in my neck and only get momentary relief from when I see the osteopath just vanished.  The dirty evil f**ker was gone and he really feels gone.  I feel light and airy.  I feel like there's a space in my chest I can breath into.  My neck feels so loose that I keep twisting it because I can't quite believe it doesn't hurt.  I couldn't really speak because I was just so blown away by the way I felt and the fact that he'd gone.  Thirty five years.  He has dominated and controlled and manipulated my life for thirty five years, even though I haven't seen or spoken to him for nearly twenty.  He's just gone.  Whether he will stay gone I don't know but I feel like a different person.  It's like a pane of glass has been taken down (Lighter, you said something about having your nose to the glass?  I get exactly what you mean now, it feels like the division between me and the rest of the world isn't there now.  I feel like I could let people in and it would be okay).  Phew!

In other news - I have discovered that the reason for son's enthusiasm for college and doing more hours is because he has a crush on a girl in his class :)  There is talk of a Valentine card and him asking her out for dinner on his birthday next month.  I am trying hard to be laid back about it :)  Lol xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on February 04, 2020, 12:14:09 PM
That is absolutely astonishing!
Extraordinary!
Wonderful!

I am blown away.

And yay for son! It's wonderful to think
of him feeling love.

(Does he have condoms? I know, AAACCK!)
But if you make sure that's in place, that teaching
(or find someone who's good at teaching it to young
men like him), then you can relax

More importantly, I'm dancing with you about the dead ogre's
disappearance into truly pointless particles.

Yay for you, Tupp. Way beyond yay.

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on February 04, 2020, 12:26:23 PM
Hi, Tup: )

Some of your post, around your EMDR sessions, was familiar.  I'm thrilled you're able to work through so much so quickly and not surprised at all to see it.  You're very focused and motivated so BRAVA to you and your T.  Woo hoo!  I hope you believe this is permanent.  I think it is. I always get instructions to not think about whatever we worked on for a while.  To let it sit.

Having the list of identified things to work on is so smart, IME.  You can just get on with the work from the moment you walk in... no matter how you're feeling.  Once that lists gone, maybe make another.   

Can you share a bit about what you're doing in session?  It's the T waving her hand in front of you... about 18", rather fast, with you following with your eyes, yes? Is it difficult to keep up with her hand?  Do you sometimes really struggle?  Is it easy other times?  Sounds like you're doing some memory reconsolidation.  I found it as amazing as you did: )  Can you ask her if she uses a particular template from a particular practitioner... or not.  Just wondering and very excited for you.

About son's interests in a girl.... let us know what you think after you've digested for a bit. 

I hope that internal spaciousness continues and grows.  You know how to create it now. 

Lighter   
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on February 05, 2020, 09:06:40 AM
That is absolutely astonishing!
Extraordinary!
Wonderful!

I am blown away.

And yay for son! It's wonderful to think
of him feeling love.

(Does he have condoms? I know, AAACCK!)
But if you make sure that's in place, that teaching
(or find someone who's good at teaching it to young
men like him), then you can relax

More importantly, I'm dancing with you about the dead ogre's
disappearance into truly pointless particles.

Yay for you, Tupp. Way beyond yay.

hugs
Hops

Lol, he's not even decided whether he's going to ask her or not yet so I'm not cracking out the condoms just yet but yes, he does know what's what because I've banged on at him endlessly about safe sex, consent, being respectful and so on.  Plus he has a really good book that was written for people with learning disabilities that literally goes through all the various aspects of intimacy almost like a recipe book :)  So he'll be well prepared when necessary :)  But yes, it was just nice to even hear him mention it, it's the first time he's shown any interest in another person at all.  I ask him every year who he wants to invite out for his birthday and it's always no-one so this made a nice change (even if it doesn't happen, it still shows he's a bit more open to making friends now which is nice).  I really like the way he talks about her - he always says what a sweet and nice girl she is and tells me about the kind things she does (like she shared her drink with him one day when he forgot his and she always offers him some of her crisps).  It was just really nice.  I'm going to write about the ogre a couple of posts down :)  Lol xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on February 05, 2020, 09:15:07 AM
Hi, Tup: )

Some of your post, around your EMDR sessions, was familiar.  I'm thrilled you're able to work through so much so quickly and not surprised at all to see it.  You're very focused and motivated so BRAVA to you and your T.  Woo hoo!  I hope you believe this is permanent.  I think it is. I always get instructions to not think about whatever we worked on for a while.  To let it sit.

Having the list of identified things to work on is so smart, IME.  You can just get on with the work from the moment you walk in... no matter how you're feeling.  Once that lists gone, maybe make another.   

Can you share a bit about what you're doing in session?  It's the T waving her hand in front of you... about 18", rather fast, with you following with your eyes, yes? Is it difficult to keep up with her hand?  Do you sometimes really struggle?  Is it easy other times?  Sounds like you're doing some memory reconsolidation.  I found it as amazing as you did: )  Can you ask her if she uses a particular template from a particular practitioner... or not.  Just wondering and very excited for you.

About son's interests in a girl.... let us know what you think after you've digested for a bit. 

I hope that internal spaciousness continues and grows.  You know how to create it now. 

Lighter

Lighter, within ten minutes of him mentioning asking her out I was planning my wedding outfit :)  Lol.  I am going to have to work very hard at not being a meddling mother in these sorts of situations.  I didn't mention it again when we got home - he'll bring it up over the weekend, probably, so we can talk about it more then.  I'd be delighted if he actually wanted to spend some time with someone instead of always sitting in his room.

The T has a kind of strip light set up on a tripod,  There's a square of light that moves back and forth and she can change the speed and the colour of the light.  It is sometimes hard to follow it.  Then she's used a variety of other things over the last couple of sessions - a couple of 'rods' that I held in my hands and they vibrated at the opposite side to the side the light was at - so if I was looking left to the light the right hand was vibrating.  She's also used a kind of wand (I called it her poking stick) to tap my knees in the same way (although not at the same time as the vibrating things, that was a different session).  We've also done breathing exercises and she's encouraged me to notice the silence, notice my breath, put my hand on whichever part of my body feels uncomfortable and breath loving compassion into it, that sort of thing.  She has some sound bowls and she's used those to create sound whilst breathing and focusing on nicer memories (like me rescuing little Tupp, for example).  Also the thing with the make up brush, to brush step-dad out of existence.  She has a whole array of various things so I expect she'll use others over time.  I will ask her if she uses a particular template when I see her next :)  She's nice - very relaxed and laid back and I like people who can explain the science of something whilst also doing the hippy dippy breathing and love yourself stuff :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on February 05, 2020, 11:22:25 AM
I felt euphoric last night.  I felt as if a huge weight had been lifted and went to bed feeling very happy.

This morning was odd.  As I went through the day I noticed that the physical lump of him that kind of evaporated during the session had been some kind of anchor to me.  All the things I usually do to get through the day - the constant chatter in my head, the endless pressure of needing to do better or work more, the lists, the constant wondering of should I do this, is it okay to feel that, timing activities, feeling exhausted, counting down each thing I do until I can stop and have a rest - none of it was there.  Without that framework, I didn't really know what to do with myself.  It felt weird so I decided not to do anything - just to get on with the day and not try to push myself one way or another.

I took son off to college, and usually I take the bus back to town after I drop him off.  I do this because we walk from college into town when I collect him and I can't manage the walk twice in one day.  I walked back into town this morning, stopping to do some shopping on the way, without even realising I was doing it or noticing it.  I didn't feel exhausted when I got home, but I did decide to just sit and watch a show on catch up, just to let the feelings settle.

I had a bit of lunch and then decided to meditate.  I picked a recording on YouTube and usually I pick things that focus on negative feelings - meditation for when you're lonely, meditation for when you feel sad, meditation for anger and so on.  Today I picked meditation for peace and love without even thinking about it.  I set my alarm in case I fell asleep - and woke up two hours later having had the most restorative nap I've had in a very long time.

I picked son up from college and we walked back to town.  He chatted about his day more than he ever has before.  Is it coincidence or has releasing that trauma had some sort of effect on him as well?  We're home now and I feel fine - no anxiety, no aches and pains, no feeling of 'I must do this'.  I feel refreshed and alert and that I could happily cope with an unexpected visitor right now.  Usually by this time of the day I'm crawling through to get the dinner cooked so I can collapse and the thought of anyone turning up horrifies me so much that I lock the door and try to make it look like we're not home.  It's just all gone.  I will let you all know what tomorrow brings! xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on February 05, 2020, 12:42:39 PM
Tup, that was one of the things I noticed too.....
being about done with a task I was usually dreading or at least not looking forward to... and find it was done and over without anything but surprise it was done with zero angst or procrastination or ANY feelings of I HAVE TO DO THIS.

It just happens.... and timing improves..... very often now I stand up and take the garbage out just before the truck's coming.  Never the same exact time, mind you.  Maybe I'm able to hear the truck NOW, bc my mind has less chatter and imperatives and angst, kwim?  Maybe.... my intuition is ON. Who knows.

 It's amazing to realize I'm putting Baby Girl Pug's leash away after walking a couple miles and not noticing I'd made the decision to do it.  I just stand up and GO, and maybe that's part of living in the moment.  It's ALL IN THAT MOMENT.  Zero thought to the past or future.. what I SHOULD do, what I MUST do... what I haven't been doing.... guilt, shame, judgment....  it's all brutal and life without it is different.  It's a rare thing, in the beginning, IME.  JUST being present in the moment is light and feels as though time is lubricated...  movement is lubricated... there's no drag and no weighted down feel..... just ease and forward motion without.... drag.  Yup yup yup.

This feeling was particularly noticeable after BIG T sessions. I think we can backslide, or feel as though we are when something particularly upsetting creates reactivity.  Maybe it's just another opportunity to finish processing something that's been stuck and needs finishing up.   Maybe we adjust to feeling better and forget how much better life is, but it's all hope and joy and forward movement, IME. 

I feel the big strides have been permanent. 

And I DO think ds benefits when you clear trauma, absolutely.

Your T uses some instruments we used in Brain Integration.  It's all intertwined and understanding the science behind it helps me internalize the information too: )

I'm so happy for you! 

Lighter

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on February 05, 2020, 08:53:07 PM
Oh
my
LORD
Tupp
(sed the agnostic).

That all took my breath away.
(As you got yours back. The right
to breathe.)

I am gobsmacked. So happy to read this.

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on February 06, 2020, 11:26:50 AM
Tup, that was one of the things I noticed too.....
being about done with a task I was usually dreading or at least not looking forward to... and find it was done and over without anything but surprise it was done with zero angst or procrastination or ANY feelings of I HAVE TO DO THIS.

It just happens.... and timing improves..... very often now I stand up and take the garbage out just before the truck's coming.  Never the same exact time, mind you.  Maybe I'm able to hear the truck NOW, bc my mind has less chatter and imperatives and angst, kwim?  Maybe.... my intuition is ON. Who knows.

 It's amazing to realize I'm putting Baby Girl Pug's leash away after walking a couple miles and not noticing I'd made the decision to do it.  I just stand up and GO, and maybe that's part of living in the moment.  It's ALL IN THAT MOMENT.  Zero thought to the past or future.. what I SHOULD do, what I MUST do... what I haven't been doing.... guilt, shame, judgment....  it's all brutal and life without it is different.  It's a rare thing, in the beginning, IME.  JUST being present in the moment is light and feels as though time is lubricated...  movement is lubricated... there's no drag and no weighted down feel..... just ease and forward motion without.... drag.  Yup yup yup.

This feeling was particularly noticeable after BIG T sessions. I think we can backslide, or feel as though we are when something particularly upsetting creates reactivity.  Maybe it's just another opportunity to finish processing something that's been stuck and needs finishing up.   Maybe we adjust to feeling better and forget how much better life is, but it's all hope and joy and forward movement, IME. 

I feel the big strides have been permanent. 

And I DO think ds benefits when you clear trauma, absolutely.

Your T uses some instruments we used in Brain Integration.  It's all intertwined and understanding the science behind it helps me internalize the information too: )

I'm so happy for you! 

Lighter

That's just what I've experienced, Lighter, all the internal chatter has just died down, without me consciously trying to make it do anything.  There is usually an endless dialogue in my mind about every single thing that I do - a constant echo of not being good enough, or getting it right, or feeling that I must justify my choices at every turn.  And it's just not there.  The relief is quite indescribable. 

And yes, son!  Really surprised at him today.  We went out to get food shopping and we needed to pop to another shop before the supermarket so I told him I wanted to walk to the pet shop first, then go and get the food.  Nothing I say to him usually stays in his brain; he functions on autopilot and because we have to walk past the supermarket to get to the pet shop I was fully expecting him to walk in to the supermarket and me to have to call him and tell him again we were going somewhere else first.  But no, he walked past the supermarket and carried on to the pet shop without me saying a word.  When we got home, he carried the shopping bags straight in to the kitchen.  Usually he'll dump them by the front door and then I ask him to bring them through.  But he did it without me saying anything.  And then I asked him if he wanted to do an at home cinema day today and watch a film after lunch.  He looked at his calendar and then said, as he had IT work to do today, and we had a busy day tomorrow and Saturday, how about an at home cinema day on Sunday?  I nearly fell off my chair; he never plans ahead, usually has no concept of time and rarely understands why we can't do multiple activities on the same day.  For him to plan ahead like that and take into account what else we're doing was just amazing.  So yes, I'll be interested to see if this continues!

I am really happy that you are doing similar stuff and put me on to this!  It's so good to be able to compare notes on here xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on February 06, 2020, 11:35:52 AM
Oh
my
LORD
Tupp
(sed the agnostic).

That all took my breath away.
(As you got yours back. The right
to breathe.)

I am gobsmacked. So happy to read this.

hugs
Hops

Hops, I am gobsmacked, too!  The physical change is remarkable.  No bad back, no stiff neck, no chest pain, walked to the shop today without any problems, had another nap this afternoon!  I did a meditation that I've done many times and in it you're asked to imagine a beam of light coming out of your chest.  I can't usually manage it - in my mind I can usually only see a pale, faltering beam, like a dodgy lightbulb.  Today I was lit up like a lighthouse!  It is quite amazing.  I feel tired now, but in a rested, relaxed way, rather than feeling exhausted and ill.  I can't tell you how good it feels xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: sKePTiKal on February 07, 2020, 09:00:27 AM
FINALLY Tupp!!

This is such a relief for me to read - I can only imagine how big the relief is for you. I can so relate to how trauma takes up residence in our bodies; affects our energy and even moods - EVEN when we're no longer facing trauma/conflict and have created a whole schedule of self-care. I'm so glad you found this.

Something lighter said about it coming back - in a milder form - rings true for me. The whole Holly thing I've recently gone through, was that kind of thing. And yeah - very very little of that experience was MINE; she was projecting that much... and trying to shift blame from one person to another. She stopped and I'm breathing easier again.

Once the newness of this wears off (like things tend to do) I would suggest trying to find a way to repeat that exercise with the T. Practice makes perfect & all that. If you can. This was a HUGE thing to let go for you... so I wouldn't advise repeating the exercise too soon. Our brains still have the familiar neural pathways that they will attempt to trod - even after letting something big go and feeling that relief. It takes TIME for the brain to start to accept that the relief is the "new normal" and permanently alter it's old pathways.

Feeling a motivation - and an acceptance - of the change, will help that process change faster too.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on February 07, 2020, 12:52:34 PM
Gob continually smacked.

What hit me in this one Tupp was how much deep sense it makes that suddenly your son was more relaxed himself, better able to focus and access some of his better functioning.

I think that's because when you have been carrying so much anxiety, adrenaline, and a constant raging inner conflict over perfectionism and endless fight-fight-fight...he's been absorbing it.

We all have (oh shit, here I go into woo woo land but I think it's so) a sort of emotional aura, I believe. Yours has been tense and dark and turbulent because of what you've been going through.

I'd imagine that any living being in your vicinity would react when that tension is suddenly absent,  or the emotional background noise is peaceful instead of klaxon.

I am so so so so delighted for you. For you both!

Sunday film day. Pass the popcorn!

Huge hugs,
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on February 07, 2020, 12:53:15 PM
::Doing the happy dance!!!::

Keep sharing, Tupp.  I love it when you fills us in on the actual process your T takes you through.  I think writing it down helps us internalize it too!  WHOO! HOO!

Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on February 07, 2020, 01:38:50 PM
Aw, thanks, you guys :)

Thank you, Skep :)  I genuinely had no idea that trauma could take such a physical form, I really didn't.  I'd read about that sort of stuff but I put it down to the realms of tension headaches or upset stomachs.  The change in me physically has been huge; I'm glad I'm writing it all down because I think I'm likely to forget and I don't want to!  It's been so amazing (I'm going to write about it a bit more at the end of the post, I just wanted to reply to each of you first).  And I'm glad Holly has pulled back a bit, I didn't like to think of you there with everyone else's stuff to deal with on top of yours and Buck's situation so I'm glad that has levelled out a bit for you xx

Hops, my gob is smacked, too!  Yes, I do know what you mean about emotional auras, it does all sound a bit woo woo but we do put out certain vibes (and pick up on them) so yes, it makes sense that, even though I've done my best to hide it from him, he's picked up on it in a different way.  Will be so amazing if we both benefit from this!  Even the cat seems more relaxed (although to be fair she's also just had some teeth out so is probably more comfortable than she was so her relaxation may be less woo woo than ours :)  Lol xx

Lighter, I genuinely danced for an hour, at home, for an hour last night - just put on the music and leapt about.  It was wonderful :)  And now for today's update!

I felt tired yesterday in a relaxed and sleepy way so I just kind of went with it - watched some TV, read a bit, pottered around a bit and didn't push myself too much.  My neck was a little bit achy so I wondered if step-dad wasn't quite vanquished and as I thought about him my neck kind of twitched, so I think we will do some more work on him next week.  But .................................

I can lift my arms above my head and windmill them around - I've never been able to do that, in my life.  My neck and shoulders have always been too stiff (that was why I started dancing, when I realised I could windmill lol).  My jaw is usually so tight that I have to wear a mouthguard at night because I grind my teeth so much that they're disintegrating.  I see the osteopath to get it freed up periodically and I try to do a yoga routine each day to help keep my jaw relaxed.

One of the exercises in it is rotating your head gently around the point your spine meets your skull - the socket's like a dent about half way up the back of your head so you keep your neck still  and move your head gently around that point - about ten rotations one way and ten the other.  Usually when I do it I can literally feel the joint grinding and crunching and I get a tingling sensation through my head (nerves jangling, I've always assumed).  It did it today and nothing - not a crunch, not a jolt, not a tingle.  Smooth as silk.

We caught the bus into town this morning; son had acupunture and then we went to the library.  Caught the bus out of town and went for lunch, then caught another bus back to town and went to the cinema.  We have been approached all day by very friendly dogs and had a really nice chat with several ladies at various bus stops along the way.  We popped into my son's favourite toy shop to have a look at the Lego (which we do every time we pass it) and the lady who runs it came down with three big ex-display Lego sets, in cases, for my son to have - free of charge.  They're amazing and one of them lights up like a nightlight as well.  I couldn't believe it.

We're home now; usually a day like that would finish me and I'd just collapse when we got in the door - but I feel alright.  My neck is aching a bit and I am tired, but I feel like some dinner and a bath is all I need.   Whether I'll be ruined tomorrow remains to be seen but at the minute I feel like someone has reset me and taken me back to pre-child energy levels.  I'm astounded at the physical changes more than anything else, but also that the sort of nagging echo that's there constantly just isn't there.  I haven't given other people a thought all day, yet usually I have almost like a narration in my head of what everyone else is doing, and/or expecting me to do.  And it just hasn't been there.  I am truly amazed. xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on February 08, 2020, 12:32:47 PM
Ya... that feeling of moving on rails... without drag.... no chatter going on around us.... just IN the moment... flowing.  It's wonderful, Tupp and I'm so happy to read your update.

Remember you can always sit with the pain when it pops up, breathe and pay attention to it.  Maybe do some EMDR around it yourself, give it a number.... breathe spaciousness INTO the pain.... check it and so forth till it's gone OR stops improving. 

I'll be interested to hear how you and your neck are doing today!

The LEGOS made me so happy TOO! 

And the physical release you're experiencing... I'm guessing you've been dealing with the pain since you were under so much stress as a child.  I didn't have that kind of stress till I was in my 40's and I NOTICED all over the place. On this board.  How stress just wrecked my body,  in new and unexpected ways... once I was stuck on the bathroom floor unable to get up... my back and neck.... the floor was 105 degrees and I FELT NOTHING. 

It's amazing you're free from pain and crunching in your neck after a bit of trauma work.  I guess you're dealing with the cause and removing it rather than dealing with and treating symptoms.... all the difference, IME.  And it makes complete sense when you have someone explaining the WHY of the process.

Very very happy for you, Tupp!  And very happy for DS too: )

I can't get this smile off my face. 

Lighter

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on February 09, 2020, 04:56:42 AM
Ya... that feeling of moving on rails... without drag.... no chatter going on around us.... just IN the moment... flowing.  It's wonderful, Tupp and I'm so happy to read your update.

Remember you can always sit with the pain when it pops up, breathe and pay attention to it.  Maybe do some EMDR around it yourself, give it a number.... breathe spaciousness INTO the pain.... check it and so forth till it's gone OR stops improving. 

I'll be interested to hear how you and your neck are doing today!

The LEGOS made me so happy TOO! 

And the physical release you're experiencing... I'm guessing you've been dealing with the pain since you were under so much stress as a child.  I didn't have that kind of stress till I was in my 40's and I NOTICED all over the place. On this board.  How stress just wrecked my body,  in new and unexpected ways... once I was stuck on the bathroom floor unable to get up... my back and neck.... the floor was 105 degrees and I FELT NOTHING. 

It's amazing you're free from pain and crunching in your neck after a bit of trauma work.  I guess you're dealing with the cause and removing it rather than dealing with and treating symptoms.... all the difference, IME.  And it makes complete sense when you have someone explaining the WHY of the process.

Very very happy for you, Tupp!  And very happy for DS too: )

I can't get this smile off my face. 

Lighter

Aw, the Lego is so great, I'm meaning to re-do his bedroom and this has spurred me on to get it done, we'll need to re-arrange to get the new stuff in so it's a good opportunity to get it re-done now.

I'm going to write what's been going on and it might be a bit haphazard but here goes!

Did feel tired and achy yesterday (Saturday); nowhere near as much as I would have expected after doing so much on Friday but also noticed specific incidents re mum and step-dad have been surfacing and, as they have, shoulder pain has returned and energy has diminished.  Very interesting to me to be able to clearly mark this link between emotional trauma and physical pain and stiffness.  But yesterday was still a good day.  We stocked up on groceries in the morning and went to the arcade in the afternoon.  I didn't have my usual sense of panic to get things done and work out what time to do things - we went when we were ready and got home when we finished and it was all fine.  Was tired but slept well.  Have woken up with a stiff neck this morning and had a very vivid dream about my mum.  I was living with her, at the age I am now, and looking after her.  It's just the two of us and she throws me out, knowing I have no money and nowhere to go.  She doesn't care, she just doesn't want me around, even after all I've done for her.  I woke feeling very upset and unsettled but also okay about it because I honestly feel now that I am constructively working my way through all of this.  For the first time I feel like I can lean in to the process and it's alright, because I feel safe.  I feel like I can wobble, fall down and get back up.  The over-riding sense of dread - that if I let my guard down he'll get back in - isn't there now, so I feel safe enough to work on everything else.  And that feels good.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: sKePTiKal on February 09, 2020, 08:27:08 AM
Ahhhhhhh..... sounds like you're FINALLY feeling safe, Tupp. Yeah, there's a ton of joy & relief & giddiness to be had in that feeling.

You deserve to feel ALL of that, sweetie. And giggle.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on February 09, 2020, 03:26:26 PM
Quote
I honestly feel now that I am constructively working my way through all of this.  For the first time I feel like I can lean in to the process and it's alright, because I feel safe.

You ARE.

Working constructively.

And safe.

So tickled, delighted, whooooo-aaaahhhhing for you over here!

Seriously, Tupp. What a change in the path.
You kept on climbing and you have found a new view.
Change DOES come. You're seeing it with your own eyes.

I'm so deeply pleased for you.
It's just enormously wonderful.
You can trip and land on your bum now and then but you have a good compass now.
You're going to see new view after inspiring view, because you never gave up.

You awe me.

Hugs,
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on February 11, 2020, 02:05:15 PM
Thank you, Skep and Hops - I wrote a long reply earlier and then the computer went a bit mad and it vanished so I'm doing a shorter version now!

I did fall on my bum over the weekend - a terrible sense of self hatred came up so strongly and felt like something very hard and heavy inside my stomach.  My back was killing me for two days, which was so odd as those aches had gone the week before.  To feel them come back as the emotional stuff came up was very peculiar.

So that was what we worked on in the session.  We talked about it a bit first, she explained a bit of the science behind physical pain and emotional trauma, explicit and implicit memory (explicit being the stuff you remember clearly in the logical part of your mind, implicit being the stuff that you feel and is stored in your body but you don't always have an explicit memory attached to) and then we got going.

The speed with which it works just blows my mind, and I said to her the trouble I'm having is that my brain can't process what I'm experiencing quickly enough - it's so deep and so fast that my logical mind can't keep up.  But basically as we started, I was in a lot of pain in the whole top half of my body and I could see very clearly little Tupp, sitting in the corner with her face to the wall, feeling universally loathed and despised - utterly worthless, pointless and unnecessary.

We worked through a bit and the pain started to move, changing into a very tight band of pressure around my chest.  The sadness I felt for that little girl was overwhelming and when we stopped to talk about it I said that I felt angry at my mum for not loving me enough, but that I also felt guilty about blaming her for that because I know no-one did it for her - she had an abusive childhood and hasn't had a great adult life either, so I felt unfair blaming her.

What the T said at that point was really interesting and very helpful.  She said I don't need to blame anyone.  I can acknowledge and accept that my mum didn't give me what I needed, and that it affected me, and that she couldn't do anymore than she did, because she didn't know how.  And probably her mum didn't, and her mum before, and her mum before that, and so on.  She said it's perfectly possible to acknowledge the reality of everyone involved in the situation and it doesn't need to be anyone's fault.  I don't need to blame myself and I don't need to blame my mum.  I can acknowledge what she did affected me negatively, and I can acknowledge that she couldn't do any better - and it's fine that that's the case.  I don't need to blame her or me and I don't need to feel guilty, or that I'm condoning the behaviour.

That was such an eye opener for me.  I have always felt that it's either got to be my fault or hers.  To have someone say, "you don't need to.  It was what it was, it is what it is, and you don't need to blame either one of you" - that just felt huge.  And a big relief.

So we carried on.  As we kept working, the pain kept moving and kept diminishing.  Little Tupp started to look up and look around her, started to want to interact with other people.  In my mind I saw her smile and run off to play with the other children and in that moment the loneliness of my childhood hit me like a train and I burst into tears.  I very rarely cry in front of people and I rarely burst like that.  It took me by surprise and I couldn't stop.  T told me not to try to control it, just to let it out, welcome it, let it carry the trauma associated with it away.

So I had a good cry, and then explained to the T that no-one wanted to play with me when I was little.  There were two other outcasts at school, an overweight girl from a travelling family that everyone bullied and a smelly girl that no-one wanted to play with either.  I used to play with them at break time and when I was older (and we were allowed to use the library at break) I just used to sit in there and read.

We kept working, the pain kept reducing and little Tupp started to fade as she played happily with the other kids.  I was very rocked by the whole thing and we spent time at the end of the session just breathing and the T uses these singing bowls she has to create nice sounds.  I could have quite easily gone to sleep in the chair.

She advised me to go for a walk and to try not to think too much, to just let things settle into place and then have a cup of tea.  I walked around the edge of town by the river and as I did I realised how much I still neglect and deprive myself, in just the same way my mum did when I was little.  I keep myself alone, I don't buy myself nice things very often, the fridge isn't full of nice treats, and so on.  I didn't apportion blame - we were very skint when I was a kid and there just wasn't the money for unnecessary items, and there isn't much now.  But - as if by magic, I was passing a charity shop and there was a picture for sale, very cheap, that I really liked - so I bought it.  I got to college a bit early and usually I would just stand and wait outside for him to come out.  But I went in to the student cafe and bought myself a coffee and sat and read my book for a bit.

I think it's going to be alright :)  It's the physical changes that amaze me the most.  When I went in to the session my shoulders were so stiff I couldn't swing my arms up over my head.  I tried it again after the session and I was able to spin them like a windmill.  Amazing.  I feel tired but in a nice way.

Son has decided to invite all of his college friends out for his birthday, not just the girl.  I am slightly relieved as I was a bit worried she might say no, or that if she did come he might spend all night doing Spongebob impressions at her.  I did think it a funny coincidence that last night he just wanted to invite her - and then after my session about being lonely in childhood he wanted to invite everyone.  The T said that your kids can and do pick up on changes in you, good or bad, as I'd mentioned he seemed to be more switched on last week after I'd seen her.  Either way it is a good thing and I'm really glad he's got some friends to go out with on his birthday (in fact that for me has made it worth moving here now).

Phew!  I'm going to tidy up, have a bath and go to bed :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on February 11, 2020, 05:10:48 PM
Tupp, if I could be any more gobsmacked I'd have to be gobhammered.

My lonely little-Hops heart went DIRECTLY to your terrible loneliness as a wee one.
I understand that awful feeling into my cells.

To hear how you allowed it, faced the story, recognized and validated little Tupp, released the heartbreak of her past-present and then guided her to a new story in your actual present....moved me very much.

May we never stop reaching out to other human beings, trusting that we can choose better and and choose the right people enough of the time, and believing in the possibility of good things also happening, for as long as we live!

Mega hugs,
Hops

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on February 13, 2020, 03:30:32 PM
Tupp, if I could be any more gobsmacked I'd have to be gobhammered.

My lonely little-Hops heart went DIRECTLY to your terrible loneliness as a wee one.
I understand that awful feeling into my cells.

To hear how you allowed it, faced the story, recognized and validated little Tupp, released the heartbreak of her past-present and then guided her to a new story in your actual present....moved me very much.

May we never stop reaching out to other human beings, trusting that we can choose better and and choose the right people enough of the time, and believing in the possibility of good things also happening, for as long as we live!

Mega hugs,
Hops

Hopsie, my computer's been doing weird things, I wrote a long reply this morning and it vanished!  I've got the Gremlins in, I think :)  And I think 'I'm gobhammered' would be good on a T shirt :)  Lol.

I am pretty gobhammered, too!  It was such a deep and raw experience (the childhood loneliness bit), so intense, and yet within five minutes, it was gone and I've been fine ever since.

I've carried on with my 'being nicer to myself' thing, without even really trying.  There's a posh charity shop in town - everything's second hand, but it's all designer labels.  I've walked past it loads but never been in.  Anyway, I went in on Wednesday and bought myself a nice top, which I'm wearing as we speak!  Pretty, rather than functional, and red - I don't have a single item of red clothing in my wardrobe.  I went to meet a mum this afternoon who's thinking about home educating her son, we had a nice chat and it was easy.  I wasn't putting on a front, I didn't have three other conversations going on in my mind at the same time and I wasn't exhausted when I left.  She's very nice, has two lovely kids and lives a short walk away.  It was nice.

Son has almost three weeks off now and I am already enjoying the sense of not having to rush around.  Makes me feel so much better.  I'm waiting to see if anything 'big' comes up after this last session but so far, nothing else is pushing its way to the front and I'm liking that feeling as well :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: sKePTiKal on February 15, 2020, 08:58:08 AM
Oh Tupp... I can soooo relate to what you experienced!! Even though my therapy was different (methods) - I had the very same experience of seeing my little self alone and so very bereft and sad. And yes, I know how we store trauma in our bodies.

The weird internalization of continuing to deny yourself pleasure bears more looking at over time; LOL - for me too. I was trying to explain it to Buck last night. In my case, it was directly about spending money in ways that I will ultimately benefit - the master bed/bath remodel, the Holly Hut... buying a plow for the garden.

If I can be ruthlessly honest a minute, I believe that feeling I have won't go completely away because I heard a sneaky Wormtongue voice in my head, telling me I was being SOOOOOO selfish. But if I use my "big girl brain" - and look at those 3 expenditures, other people will directly benefit too: Buck & obviously Holly & Steve. They'll have their very OWN house - to their liking even; and Buck won't hurt himself trying to step over the super-tall tub walls of that old jacuzzi tub (which is now in pieces on the "trash" trailer. The plow will let me FINALLY feed all these people REALLY fresh, good food.

In your case - feeling better is benefiting DS too. And you're able to relax around new people, and help them a bit too. I don't think I'll EVER become a spendthrift... but I do need to ease up on my self, when that reflex emotional aversion or worry about spending a little (to get a lasting benefit) comes up.

Maybe the last "reinforcement" of worrying about money comes from a Jimmy Buffett song that Mike was particularly fond of because for him it was true: In "A Pirate Looks at 40", there's a line - "made enough money to buy Miami and pissed it all away again". And Mike revelled in that mindset - which is why I was in control of finances - LOL.

Buck is like me; with the mindset of Scarlett O'Hara in Gone with the Wind (right before Intermission) when she vows she'll never be hungry again. LOL.

I remember what it felt like to go through what you just did Tupp; I'm smiling ear to ear for ya! I just wanna hug ya! That's such freedom... and I will tell you - even though the "old stuff" will return JUST in an echo of before... the freedom LASTS. You can trust it.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on February 16, 2020, 04:50:30 AM
Oh Tupp... I can soooo relate to what you experienced!! Even though my therapy was different (methods) - I had the very same experience of seeing my little self alone and so very bereft and sad. And yes, I know how we store trauma in our bodies.

The weird internalization of continuing to deny yourself pleasure bears more looking at over time; LOL - for me too. I was trying to explain it to Buck last night. In my case, it was directly about spending money in ways that I will ultimately benefit - the master bed/bath remodel, the Holly Hut... buying a plow for the garden.

If I can be ruthlessly honest a minute, I believe that feeling I have won't go completely away because I heard a sneaky Wormtongue voice in my head, telling me I was being SOOOOOO selfish. But if I use my "big girl brain" - and look at those 3 expenditures, other people will directly benefit too: Buck & obviously Holly & Steve. They'll have their very OWN house - to their liking even; and Buck won't hurt himself trying to step over the super-tall tub walls of that old jacuzzi tub (which is now in pieces on the "trash" trailer. The plow will let me FINALLY feed all these people REALLY fresh, good food.

In your case - feeling better is benefiting DS too. And you're able to relax around new people, and help them a bit too. I don't think I'll EVER become a spendthrift... but I do need to ease up on my self, when that reflex emotional aversion or worry about spending a little (to get a lasting benefit) comes up.

Maybe the last "reinforcement" of worrying about money comes from a Jimmy Buffett song that Mike was particularly fond of because for him it was true: In "A Pirate Looks at 40", there's a line - "made enough money to buy Miami and pissed it all away again". And Mike revelled in that mindset - which is why I was in control of finances - LOL.

Buck is like me; with the mindset of Scarlett O'Hara in Gone with the Wind (right before Intermission) when she vows she'll never be hungry again. LOL.

I remember what it felt like to go through what you just did Tupp; I'm smiling ear to ear for ya! I just wanna hug ya! That's such freedom... and I will tell you - even though the "old stuff" will return JUST in an echo of before... the freedom LASTS. You can trust it.

Aw, Skep, the hug is right back at ya!  Lol.  Yes the trauma storing is amazing to me and something I'm going to read more about.  I truly didn't get those connections before.  I'm wondering now if my life long preoccupation with suicide is because I somehow picked up on my mum's suicide attempt when I was little.  I've no conscious memory of it and only know about it because she told me when I was older but I wonder now if I picked up on it at all.  That worries me a bit as it means son might have picked up on my suicidal thoughts and feelings.  But if I keep working through things hopefully that will help him as well and it might all turn out alright :)

I found that Wednesday, Thursday and Friday (therapy was Tuesday) were great days.  Friday in particular was lovely, we had a really good time and everything seemed to work - we got to bus stops just as buses were arriving, we got good seats, everything we needed to do happened easily and the arcade was almost deserted so we were in there for nearly two hours and it was great.

Yesterday (Saturday) I conked out and it was okay.  I get that emotions go up and down and tire you out so I just went with it.  Lots of catch up TV and snacks, didn't give myself a hard time about it.  It was fine.  Went to bed feeling normal again and woke up this morning feeling good.

I logged on to my online dating account on Friday.  Haven't been on there for well over a year, I don't have a picture up and I haven't written anything in my blurb.  Yet two nice, local guys contacted me and I've had really nice email chat back and forth with both of them.  One is too young for me but the other is the right age group and both I'd be happy to meet for a coffee just as friends, coffee buddies or whatever.  That was slightly odd - usually online dating is pretty gross and I get sick of the sex related messages pretty quickly but it just hasn't happened.  Make of it what you will, it was a nice change and a nice diversion yesterday as I had my duvet day :)

Friends coming down later on and we're going out to eat.  Not sure what time they'll get here as the weather's awful but will be nice to see them.  Things are good!  I'm always surprised when I'm able to say that :)  Lol xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: sKePTiKal on February 16, 2020, 10:56:24 AM
LOL... You'll get used to saying things are good, I think. Just takes practice.  :D

I've been aware for a long time, that emotional seesawing is my nemesis. Dealing with mine, his, hers, theirs... the expectations that we can do something magical to help those we would, if we COULD... LOL. Navigating those boundaries, with kindness - but firmness...

oh... Calgon take me away... LOL.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on February 16, 2020, 02:08:33 PM
LOL... You'll get used to saying things are good, I think. Just takes practice.  :D

I've been aware for a long time, that emotional seesawing is my nemesis. Dealing with mine, his, hers, theirs... the expectations that we can do something magical to help those we would, if we COULD... LOL. Navigating those boundaries, with kindness - but firmness...

oh... Calgon take me away... LOL.

Boundaries, firmness and kindness is an art form, I think, Skep!  Something for us all to aspire to :)

We got home about an hour ago and I've been thinking about how I would describe the day today - and the best word I can come up with is 'easy'.  And it's been easy without me having to work at making it easy!

My friends arrived after a long drive and I was still tidying up the house.  I didn't mind, and neither did they.  We went to a local restaurant that I hadn't been to before but had heard good things about.  I didn't fret over giving directions to get there, didn't worry about who should speak when we arrived (I'd booked the table but we don't often eat in restaurants and usually just walking in the door would make me anxious - but it didn't).  I didn't fret about what I was wearing - again, not intentional, I just didn't think beyond putting some clothes on this morning.  We ordered and I didn't have three conversations going on in my head about what to order, is son alright, do they like the restaurant, will the food be okay, what will we do about paying the bill, and so on.  It just wasn't there.  I ordered what I fancied, son ordered what he fancied and my friends ordered what they fancied.  Easy.  Dishes were swopped and shared as they came out and again, no worries on my part about taking a bit, saying no thanks to something, asking if anyone minded if I had the last bit of chicken and so on.  Didn't have an endless monologue in my head about calories and health factors and whether I ought to go vegan, and so on and so on.  It was just easy.  And not only easy, it was delicious, the food was lovely, the restaurant was really nice, staff really sweet, conversation was easy.  Easy, easy, easy.  Son got his IPAD out between courses and I didn't fuss and didn't worry about whether I should or shouldn't fuss.  We went for a drive afterwards and then a brisk walk on the beach (and it was brisk because it's blowing a gale and we were on a very exposed part of the coast line that's windy even when it's not windy anywhere else!).  Drove home, we came in for tea and pudding, friends went to check in to their hotel.  Everything about it was just easy.  It was a nice day out and that's the end of the story - no exhaustion from the effort of getting through it, no worrying about whether this was okay or should I have done/said/not done/not said this that or the other.  It was just a nice day.  Friends will call when they're up tomorrow so we can meet for breakfast.  Easy.  Is this how life is for a lot of people?  Just easy?  It's nice.  I like it! :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on February 16, 2020, 03:25:26 PM
I've been reading about your gale, Tupp...holy moly! So glad it didn't blow you over.

And what a delicious, peaceful, happy thing to read today. Your simple day with other humans. And the human in your head at peace.

Easy = happy.

I am SO loving seeing you have more happy.

Inexpressibly glad to read it....

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on February 17, 2020, 01:58:44 PM
I've been reading about your gale, Tupp...holy moly! So glad it didn't blow you over.

And what a delicious, peaceful, happy thing to read today. Your simple day with other humans. And the human in your head at peace.

Easy = happy.

I am SO loving seeing you have more happy.

Inexpressibly glad to read it....

Hugs
Hops

We've been lucky here, Hops.  The house I'm in is in the middle of a block and very overlooked by other houses.  This is generally something I don't like and moan about but it's meant that we've avoided a lot of the wind which has been good for us.  We do have a pond in the back garden where it's rained so much it's just collected in a big puddle.  And there is damage locally - a huge pane of glass cracked in the roof of the bus station cafe - fortunately no-one was inside but it's part of a huge dome on the roof of the building so the repair job is huge.  Parts of the local river are very close to bursting their banks - again fortunately we aren't close enough for that to affect us directly.  We went to the beach again today and the waves were just huge - spectacular to watch and listen to but my goodness, I made sure we kept well away and watched them from afar!

So, today's update!  I am finding this being happy business a novel experience :)  And am also finding it easier to observe what I'm thinking and feeling, rather than reacting to or being controlled by it.  That's a new one for me, too.

Yesterday was lovely and I was in no rush to get out of bed this morning and spent a couple of hours just reading, stretching, drinking tea and talking to the cat.  We had made loose arrangements to meet our friends this morning and they texted wanting to change the plans.  I did feel myself get annoyed, start to tense and the cacophony of 'all that is wrong in my life' started to whirl through my head and I thought, "oh no, here we go".  But - I then said how about we meet for breakfast and take it from there, which we did.  They explained their plan for the day (which they wanted to include us in) but it didn't work with our day and what we needed to do.  My stomach was knotting and it's that thing of saying no, or not being available.  It made me realise how uncomfortable it makes me (and this is with really good friends who I know will not mind if I can or can't do something).  And as I realised that, it started to ease off, we talked through a few possible options, I explained what the problems were (namely we had something scheduled for this afternoon and son would need lunch, drinks and snacks, which I hadn't brought out with me and aren't always easy to buy on the go due to his food issues).  But again, as we talked, I could see there was a way to do everything and so we've had another really nice day.  They've now gone on to their B and B and we're home, in the warm, and I'm ready for a bath :)

Son and I were in town earlier (after friends had left for their next thing) and we bumped in to another friend, who's one of the ones I've felt very let down by and ignored.  I've felt very hurt over the last twelve months by her lack of contact and zero offer of help or support and I've dreaded the possibility of bumping in to her for quite some time (although haven't thought about her at all just lately, I realised).  Anyway, we bumped in to her and I was able to observe without any emotion coming up.  Despite the fact we haven't seen each other for ages and she knows I've been having a tough time, the conversation was all about her, and was all negative :)  There's no preamble, she just starts talking about what she's been doing and how awful it all is (it's all things she doesn't need to do and has done umpteen times in the past and always complains about).  I shoehorned in a couple of bits about myself (friends have been down, we had a lovely lunch yesterday and so on) and there was virtually no response - it's more like a brief pause before she starts talking again :)  The reason I'm putting smiley faces is because I genuinely didn't feel bothered by it.  I can just see the clarity of the situation and it's alright.  I'm no longer willing or able to just absorb other people.  I want reciprocity (60/40 will do, Hops! lol).  And a bit of thought from the other person.  They'd just been to see the film we were going to see later on in the day and she said, "oh, I thought I might bump in to you, I know son likes this sort of thing".  Now in my previous state I would always have contacted her to see if she wanted to go together (as our kids like similar things).  But I haven't been doing that for a while, which is why I haven't seen her.  It didn't occur to her to get in touch with us to see if we fancied going.  And that's the sort of thing I don't want anymore.  I want people who do think to themselves, "oh, Tupp and son might like that, I'll see if they want to go".  That's what I want now - and it felt okay.

I have a slight tremble in my belly over the online dating thing.  I've been chatting to a couple of guys, sent one of them a pic of me and he's said he's not interested.  I appreciate the honesty and obviously we all have our types etc but it did prick my ego a little.  It's fine, I'm just noticing it and where it sits and I'm going to carry on with my evening and see how it goes.  Therapy session tomorrow!  I am looking forward to it :)  I will update afterwards!

Oh, and PS, saw another picture in a charity shop today that goes well with the one I bought last week and a really nice pair of trousers, so I bought them.  Cheap - I haven't spent a fortune, but they have no purpose other than pretty :)  Lol xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on February 18, 2020, 09:42:05 AM
Well I think there is a very real danger that I am going to turn in to one of those annoying people who is always positive and who never gets down :)  Lol, I went to therapy again today and it was amazing!

We went to an art workshop first thing, which was lovely, and then went straight to the session - son sat in reception and waited for me.  We had a bit of a chat about the last week, what's been good about it and so on (I didn't really have anything negative to talk about) and then we started working, this time on the police incident (when I reported my step-dad and ultimately they protected him and came after me instead).  It already didn't feel like the massive deal it has done for the last ten years so I talked her through what had happened, we talked about the physical sensations (my chest felt a bit blocked and congested) and about the feelings (unsafe, persecuted, injustice and so on) and then we started.  It was a much gentler process this week and far less of the huge releasing that's happened in previous weeks.  The feelings abated quickly and were replaced with more immediate ones like annoyance, frustration and me wanting to punch various people in the face.  The pain centred on my left hand side and moved slowly up through my shoulder, into my jaw and across my head, eventually just kind of evaporating out of the top.  We stopped for a moment, did some breathing and singing bowl sounds and she told me to go through the story in my head and just notice if anything was still stuck.  I felt some annoyance that she'd made me feel like a bad parent, even though I know I'm not, so we worked through that.  The pain was on the left hand side again and moved quickly up, and was replaced by a tingling in my shoulders.  That evaporated and we breathed again, and then worked on my annoyance with myself at letting them (the police) in to the house in the first place.  Again, that was quite brief, there was some pain again on the left hand side that quickly worked its way out, and then all I felt was calm and relaxed.  It doesn't even feel like it happened; there's a hazy memory of a story that I heard someone else tell once.  That's what it feels like now, it's gone from being something that's formed a big part of my life for the last decade to being something that I'm now very glad I kept notes on at the time because I think I'd struggle to re-tell the story from memory.  All that in less than an hour of me sitting in a chair, watching a light move.  Mind blowing.

We went to wait for the bus and son, who would usually just stand there, was doing calf stretches!  It was just so funny as both Lighter and I have mentioned the need to stretch at random moments and there was son, stretching his limbs at the side of the road :)  Bus was busy and I felt like I was sitting in a little insulated bubble and nothing else that happened affected me.  I'm on the sofa now, under a blanket, film ready to watch, cup of tea and sandwich at the ready.  It doesn't feel like a good or a bad thing - I'm not recovering from an unpleasant morning, I'm not rewarding myself with a treat, I'm not forcing myself to rest so that I don't feel tired later - I just fancied getting under the blanket for a bit.  The chatter just isn't there at the moment.  And I can't tell you how nice that is! xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on February 18, 2020, 01:57:11 PM
I'm so pleased to read your update, Tupp!

Not good or bad.  Just comfortable.

Yes; )

Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on February 18, 2020, 08:33:36 PM
(((((Tupp)))))

What's extraordinary to me is that your healing is leading to the most important thing of all....experiencing the ordinary, in peace. Simple, beautiful peace.

I know how amazing that is. The adrenalin has resumed its proper place, if you need it to avoid being hit by a bus or something. Very handy. But not needed for your daily life. I'm so so so glad. 

I loved the image of your son stretching by the road. How his own stress is rolling off of him. It's beautiful. You both deserve this and you absolutely awe me by how determinedly you never gave up, you kept working at it and working at it and then took the risk of trusting the new T.

That was an enormously bold, brave and mature act. I am so thrilled for you. And I hope the peaceful ordinary just goes on and on. If there are days out of sync I have no fear whatsoever that you'll get right back to it again. It's in you now and your body and mind won't forget how peace feels.

I'm so happy this is happening in your life. What's even more amazing to me is that you are such a fine writer that when you share these accounts, I can see/feel/imagine it so vividly, and it becomes even more real.

Your honesty, your talent for storytelling, and your courage...have added up to these moments. I don't know when I've ever heard anything more inspiring. Thank you.

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on February 19, 2020, 01:41:01 AM
I'm so pleased to read your update, Tupp!

Not good or bad.  Just comfortable.

Yes; )

Lighter

Thanks, Lighter!  It's a real change to be able to keep writing positive updates!  A new experience for me :)  Lol, yes, I'm liking comfortable, it feels like a good place to be :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on February 19, 2020, 01:58:59 AM
(((((Tupp)))))

What's extraordinary to me is that your healing is leading to the most important thing of all....experiencing the ordinary, in peace. Simple, beautiful peace.

It's extraordinary to me, too, Hops!  I really didn't expect this to happen.  I kind of hoped that this experience wouldn't be a bad one and that maybe I just could get to a point where I didn't feel so horrendously ill all the time.  I really didn't dream that things could become easy :)

I know how amazing that is. The adrenalin has resumed its proper place, if you need it to avoid being hit by a bus or something. Very handy. But not needed for your daily life. I'm so so so glad. 

It has, Hops, it's gone back in its box :)  I was saying to the T yesterday that what's amazed me the most is that the changes I'm experiencing are very profound, but also very subtle.  The years of childhood neglect that came up last week were so deeply ingrained in me I didn't even realise they were there.  They were as much a part of me as my skin or my eyes (or any other body part :) ).  Yet that deep change shifted so completely that all my self denial and neglect has evaporated, but in a very quiet and non-obvious way.  It's a subtle change on the outside but it's because something huge happened inside.  And it happened without me doing anything.  I literally just sit there and watch a light go back and forth.  Mind blowing.

I loved the image of your son stretching by the road. How his own stress is rolling off of him. It's beautiful. You both deserve this and you absolutely awe me by how determinedly you never gave up, you kept working at it and working at it and then took the risk of trusting the new T.

She was a good T to take a chance on, Hops, I'm really glad I was willing to give it one more go :)  And yes, son seems to be experiencing positive benefits from it as well.  He's wearing his ear defenders far less as well - just saying that his ears don't hurt as much.  It will be amazing if this helps both of us :)

That was an enormously bold, brave and mature act. I am so thrilled for you. And I hope the peaceful ordinary just goes on and on. If there are days out of sync I have no fear whatsoever that you'll get right back to it again. It's in you now and your body and mind won't forget how peace feels.

Thanks, Hops :)  One of the things I was thinking about yesterday is the feeling now that, if something hideous happens in the future (which of course it might, none of us are immune to that), I can just go for a few sessions to sort it out.  I felt that I had completely lost my resilience to any kind of setback over this last year or so and that really scared me - how do you get through life if you can't cope with anything negative happening?  And that had worried me a lot.  But now I feel that (a) things will affect me less because I don't have as much baggage to carry around anyway, and (b), I've got a way of dealing with things now if they are too big for me to manage on my own.

I'm so happy this is happening in your life. What's even more amazing to me is that you are such a fine writer that when you share these accounts, I can see/feel/imagine it so vividly, and it becomes even more real.

Thanks, Hops :)  I am having to write it all down because it doesn't feel real :)  I want to be able to remember it and make sense of it.  I'm finding it really difficult to get my head around how it's working.  It's like she's rubbing out all the bad experiences and giving me a clean slate to start working from.

Your honesty, your talent for storytelling, and your courage...have added up to these moments. I don't know when I've ever heard anything more inspiring. Thank you.

Thank you!  All of you, you all help me so much through so many things and I don't think anyone else would understand how much this therapy is helping because I don't think anyone in the real world actually knows how much has gone on over the years?
 I've shared far more on here than I ever have anywhere else.  I'm really glad that you're all here for me to share good news with!
 And I hope there's more to share in the future, too :)

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on February 19, 2020, 09:20:37 AM
I'm just jotting a few things down as I notice them happening :)

A man on the bus started chatting to me.  I chatted to him briefly but didn't really want to carry on the conversation, so I didn't encourage it any further - I was polite but not enthusiastic - and I didn't worry or feel bad about whether he'd feel bad that I didn't talk to him the whole journey.

When we got off the bus my neighbour was outside his house.  He's an elderly disabled chap who asked me last week to pop round to see him but wouldn't tell me why he wanted me to.  I will pop round at some point but I haven't had a chance yet this week and when I saw him outside I just said hi to him and then went into my own house - I didn't feel I needed to explain myself or go round there straight away.  Usually I would fret and feel really anxious about something like that.

I posted some autism information to a local group I'm in this morning without worrying endlessly about whether or not I ought to post it (it's a fact based article about eye contact and not forcing people to do it so it's nothing controversial but usually I would have worried whether someone might disagree with it or be offended by it).

We've been out for lunch and I haven't fretted about whether we ought to or not.  We were hungry so we ate.  I saw someone in there that I know and just said hi, without worrying about whether or not I should go over to talk properly.  All the silly, pointless unnecessary anxiety about so many things just isn't there now and it's just made life feel so much easier.  I feel very, very lucky :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on February 19, 2020, 10:50:06 PM
It's like flipping a switch, isn't it, Tupp?

I'm very glad to read your updates as I'm not as the island presents many opportunities to practice being present.  I've pushed on walls, breathed my lungs out for 4 hours today, noticed when I'm living in my amygdala.....lots and lots if practice.

Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on February 25, 2020, 08:04:08 AM
It's like flipping a switch, isn't it, Tupp?

I'm very glad to read your updates as I'm not as the island presents many opportunities to practice being present.  I've pushed on walls, breathed my lungs out for 4 hours today, noticed when I'm living in my amygdala.....lots and lots if practice.

Lighter

It is like resetting something, Lighter, and so much unnecessary stuff has fallen away.  The sense of urgency - got to run, got to be busy, got to keep doing things - just isn't there.  Son is on holiday from college this week and it's lovely.  We're ambling through the day, going out when we want to, staying in when we want to.  I am bumbling through my to do list and getting bits done but do you know what, most of what's on there doesn't appeal to me and I don't want to do it.  There is stuff I need to do - I think it will cause problems if I abandon some things at this point - but most of it, once it's done, won't be making its way into my life again.  I am going to be much, much more discerning in the future, about who I let in to my life and what sort of experiences I give time and space to.  No more making do, putting up with things, dealing with other people's crap.  Just about everything we've unpacked so far has been a traumatic incident that's been caused by someone else's deliberate action.  The only thing that wasn't anyone's fault was my dad dying, but everything else I've been through in my life could have been avoided if someone else had made a different choice.  Isn't that astonishing?  And of course, you can't control your childhood experiences, you're there and there's nowhere else for you to go.  But I can blooming well control my adult choices now and I want them to be, as much as possible, healthy, positive, constructive choices with emotionally astute people.  And I want to take notice when my spidey senses tingle and tell me to avoid people or give them a wide berth.  Phew!  Just saying that to myself feels like such a relief :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on February 25, 2020, 10:28:28 AM
And as if by magic, I have practised what I preached :)  We are supposed to be going to a meeting with college later on this week.  I have been anxious about it - not as much as I might have been, but it's been bothering me none the less.  They've not, so far, followed any of the appropriate legislation or guidance, which is why son's needs haven't been met.  They're aware of what's been going on and they're aware that we won't be using anything from the local authority, or staying in the area, in the future.  The meeting is therefore a box ticking exercise, which only benefits them, not myself or son.  They send out a form in advance of the meeting, which I'd already filled in, and I didn't have anything to add to that.  I have been worrying that other people might be there - they had mentioned inviting local authority representatives and someone from a local work group that they syphon a lot of the learning disabled kids on to, neither of which I want.  I also don't like to talk about son in negative terms in front of him, so I won't be able to say anything much about the damage that's been done, and he just always says he's fine.  So the whole thing felt quite pointless and a bit of a waste of an afternoon.  And just now I thought - well - I won't go.  I'll put the form in the post and send it in by email as well, and then we can just carry on with enjoying our break (which so far has been lovely).  Decision was made, letter posted, and the weight lifted off me :)

Equally I have been fretting about his birthday.  I have a friend down here whose sons can't come to the birthday tea I've arranged, so I've been turning over logistics in my mind to fit in a second birthday thing that they can come to.  But son can't compute two birthday events - he's having one and that's that!  So it's been a bit tricky, plus it was trying to think of somewhere that they all like and can cope with (various ages and disabilities).  And then there's cost as well, plus getting everywhere by bus, plus not knowing how tired son will be after birthday bash number one, and so on and so on.  And then I thought - they can just come for cake.  I'll invite them for cake that weekend, and then if they want to come, they can, and if they don't want to, then it will have to wait until another time.  And with that, that particular worry lifted as well.  Phew!  Looking for ways to lift worries!  It feels good! xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on February 26, 2020, 01:17:36 PM
And so the lack of internal chatter continues!  I'm just amazed at how much difference it makes not to have endless conversations and tribulations whirring at the back of my mind constantly.

I've been trying to use up food we already have because I want to give the kitchen a good clean, including defrost the fridge freezer and clean out the food cupboards.  So I've spent today, literally, cooking and eating everything that was left :)  I had lots of bits and pieces of different things and I've cooked up, eaten, tidied up and then cooked again.  It's been yummy, very relaxing, and it's amazing what you can cobble together from different bits and pieces.

I had an amazing nap this afternoon.  The difference to my sleep since I started the EMDR is very noticeable.  I'm sleeping deeper and more contentedly, I think, and feeling more refreshed when I wake up.  It's nice.

I also made a list this afternoon of all the files I want to work through, and the order I want to work through them in.  There are 36 files in total (in the sitting room; I've not started tackling the files on computer yet), on a large bookshelf.  I'm looking at that corner of the room and imagining that book shelf not being there and it feels nice.  I felt a bit of a reaction to a couple of things but was surprised to see there were things there that I'd forgotten about (!).  Each file represents some sort of hideous or unpleasant experience.  None of them are linked to positive or useful things.  Son turns 18 next week, which means he has been alive for 216 months.  With 36 unpleasant experiences in that time, that makes an average of something unpleasant every six months.  It's literally been virtually constant throughout his entire life.  So it has reinforced my desire to replace every single one of those unpleasant experiences with a magical, marvellous one.  Bollocks to all those bloody awful people.  He's sitting on the sofa right now, calm, happy, relaxed, feet up, laughing at the show he likes.  He's bloody lovely and I couldn't be more proud.  And now I'm excited at the idea of coming up with 36 good situations to replace all the crappy ones!  Lol.

I'm very astonished at feeling good even though nothing in particular has happened.  We've had a few quiet, uneventful days and I just feel nice.  Happy and relaxed - looking forward to bed but not exhausted?  And looking forward to a new day tomorrow, which is unheard of for me.  I usually just have to hope I manage to get through it.  Night night, lovelies! xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on February 26, 2020, 07:20:28 PM
Sweet dreams, proud Mama Tupp!

Over the mooooooooooon about what's happening for you.

Huge hugs,
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on February 27, 2020, 08:40:17 AM
I'm so happy for you, Tupp.  You sound content to be in the kitchen, editing and cleaning the house...... finishing up files, making decisions that please ONLY YOU, wooo hoo!

I think this is what they call.....
flow?

::nodding happily::.

The lack of chatter...
lack of dread....
lack of reactivity is noticeable in my life too.  I've stopped waiting for the other shoe to fall.  It believe it won't be back.

Sleep is healing and it's wonderful to read you're sleeping better.   YAY! YAY!

Congrats on canceling the meeting that gained you nothing.  I'd love to hear more about how you might have handled that in the past and how things have changed around that decision making process.

You sound like you're surfin real good: )

Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on February 28, 2020, 09:50:09 AM
Sweet dreams, proud Mama Tupp!

Over the mooooooooooon about what's happening for you.

Huge hugs,
Hops

Thanks, Hops :)  Do you know what I realised?  That I'm feeling surges of warm, happy, contented love for him, instead of the terror stricken, "Jesus I have to keep him safe, I can't let these people near him" kind of protective love that I've felt since the day he was born.  I still feel enormously protective, obviously, but something else is coming up and its easier and more comfortable and just feels cuddly?  Safe love, rather than having to keep him safe love?  Which is a big revelation for me, and a big change :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on February 28, 2020, 09:58:20 AM
I'm so happy for you, Tupp.  You sound content to be in the kitchen, editing and cleaning the house...... finishing up files, making decisions that please ONLY YOU, wooo hoo!

I think this is what they call.....
flow?

::nodding happily::.

The lack of chatter...
lack of dread....
lack of reactivity is noticeable in my life too.  I've stopped waiting for the other shoe to fall.  It believe it won't be back.

Sleep is healing and it's wonderful to read you're sleeping better.   YAY! YAY!

Congrats on canceling the meeting that gained you nothing.  I'd love to hear more about how you might have handled that in the past and how things have changed around that decision making process.

You sound like you're surfin real good: )

Lighter

Thanks, Lighter :)  I feel like a surfer :)  Lol.  I think with that meeting, I'd have spent so much time and energy worrying about what to do, how to play it, trying to foresee all possible outcomes, always worried a little that social services will get involved again and it will escalate so quickly.  And I did worry about it a bit, but far less, and I have gone over it endlessly since cancelling it.  I got a thing through from the doctor yesterday; another huge form they want filling in, then they want son in for two appointments, then blood tests - all for 'standard' checks that he doesn't need and that he (and I) finds very stressful and unpleasant, not to mention time consuming.  I started to worry about it because they do come after you if you don't attend appointments and then I thought - he's 18 next week.  Legally an adult, legally able to make his own decisions.  For an important medical issue I would always take him where he needs to go but for this kind of thing, he can choose whether or not he wants to do it.  So I talked it all through with him, showed him the form they want him to fill in, went through the number of times they want him down there and he said "I don't want to do it".  So I said okay.  And that will be that.  They'd have to go to court to force him to undergo the appointment, and then they'd have to arrange social workers to organise it all because I'm only legally responsible for him for another few days.  Once he's 18 they can't make me do anything.  And oh my goodness, the weight that lifted off my shoulders then!  It's the layers coming off, isn't it, one bit falls away and the other bits loosen up.

Are you home safely from your travels now?  I hope you're getting a chance to rest xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on February 28, 2020, 11:02:13 AM
Hi, Tupp:

I'm glad you overcame the worry/anxiety of blowing off the meeting and doc appointments.  I worried for you as I read your posts.  Will these decisions impact ds' benefits?  Then I remembered... this is Tupp.  She's done the calculations.  She knows.  All will be well.

I'm home, catching up kid's laundry while wondering about the wisdom of doing so.   

I have lunch with a friend I haven't seen in months.  He's been studying meditation.. just finished a 2 year course, and we have a stronger relationship.... balanced... interesting.... reciprocal.  Nice.

Lots percolating... think 2 weeks on island (with overachiever brother) and CB's thread has something to do with it.  Like I realized there's no real shackle anywhere on me, inside me.  I guess my gaze is expanding.  I know my interpretation of things is as valid and very often more accurate than anyone's.  The chatter and doubt around it.... is lifting.  And what, exactly, is lifting.  Doubt, I think.  Less care for how others NEED things to be, seem, look. Less caretaking for other's feelings.

My brother looked me point blank in the face and asked what about ME created all this drama.... with men.  He didn't have the answer... he wanted to know. Honestly.  It was apparent I was the problem, in his mind. That got me thinking. 

 I said I had my theories, which is true.  I felt I held a boundary with him.  No blathering on defending or deflecting blame.  I'm sure some of it's mine, but honest, and kind..... is perhaps interpreted as weakness I have to then manage and overcome.  It almost feels like men SEE women as things they're driven to herd and corral.... and that makes me feel sad for them.  How our culture trains them up.   Not fair or good or right for anyone, IME.   Maybe it's just reality I disagree with?  And here we are again.... me facing radical acceptance, or not. 

I'm glad it didn't ocur to me to defend, or explain or blather on trying to explain something I didn't want to discuss, truth be told.  More on another thread when I get to it. 

Shifting into curious observer mode more quickly/easily.  Noticing what's going on inside is happening without thinking.

Have to get ready for lunch now: )

Lighter





Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on February 28, 2020, 12:37:18 PM
Thank you for the trust in me, Lighter, you are right - anything that affects benefits, has some sort of long term impact and/or is medically necessary I will always do.  But there is so much other guff and I'm sure a lot of it is just about some people needing to justify their paychecks.  A lot is completely unnecessary so I've just blown off those bits.  And to be honest if I had more time, money, support etc I probably would do them, but I have to prioritise and I'm doing that more and more now, so if it's surplus to requirements then I'm shelving it to do something else.  Yesterday would have been very stressful and tiring if we'd shoehorned a meeting in to the other things we needed to do.  As it was, we wandered into town, did our jobs, went home and ate home made brownies :)  It was very nice :)

Yes, percolate away.  I think the fact that bro's statement about you creating the drama not immediately making you think it's your fault is a good sign.  Yes, the 'drama' is being created by you - because you're refusing to put up with disrespectful, unhelpful behaviour and their response to that shows why you need to.  And there are some that don't like their flaws to be held up to the light.  Boundaries are a good way to sort the wheat from the chaff, as we all know.  I am looking forward to reading about your percolations, Lighter, and I'm glad you're home safe :) xx

I'm just adding this as I thought about it overnight - the use of the word 'drama' is telling.  I think it belittles your efforts to live your life as you see fit - which means not moulding yourself to every man around.  It makes your boundary setting and need to get on sound trite and unnecessary and I think that's why it prickled at me (I felt a nudge when I first read your post, Lighter, but I couldn't quite get at why.  But I think that's it - it's made me feel he's patronising you?  I'm not sure if patronising is the right word.  Hops will know how to say it! But you probably get what I mean anyway) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on February 29, 2020, 01:49:27 AM
I'm jotting down my observations as they come up and trying to just notice things and not attach blame or anything else to them.

A lot came up about my step-dad this week.  A few other things have niggled - doctor's form coming through, same doc hasn't sent me some information I requested but has found the time to send me stuff I didn't request.  Unnecessary meeting with college (and everything behind that), son's birthday - still waiting for responses from two people which is starting to cause him anxiety.  All of these kids have similar problems so it does bug me that other parents don't get on and deal with things when they know it might be causing one of the others problems.  No word from friends over half term - all waiting for me to visit them.  And so on.  It's been fine, none of these things are affecting me anywhere near as much as they have before and I'm just seeing them ping up and getting on with what I was doing anyway.  But I did wake up early hours of the morning and I could feel his weight crushing me.  A whole load of very intense physical flashbacks came then and it was very horrible and unpleasant.  I got up, made up my nest on the sofa and got in it and cried.  I'm going to ask T if we can work on all those physical things at the next session and I'm scheduling myself a week off afterwards because I think letting all of that lot out might have a big impact.

In other news - bumped into a friend yesterday who is one of the ones I've hardly seen since we moved down and who hasn't been very supportive of the horrible situation I was in last year.  She has cancer - second time for her and she's having chemo.

I've noticed that I've been able to detach myself from the situation and look at things objectively and just accept my feelings for what they are and not need to justify them to myself, which is good.  She's looking in to alternative treatments and general health and wellbeing type stuff and I offered to get information together for her.  We met up after lunch and talked.  I noticed how much freer some people are with talking very openly about their personal information in public spaces.  I would only feel comfortable talking about things like that indoors, with no-one else around, or very quietly in a public space, but even then I would be very selective about what I say.  She was nicer to my son than she was the last time we saw her.  Last time we visited her (and it's been one of the reasons I haven't been back over) she walked away from him mid sentence, as he was telling her about something.  He was absolutely crushed.  Things like that really upset him.  I realised this morning that I should have said something about that at the time.  I won't bring it up now as I don't feel it's appropriate given what else is going on but it made me make a little note to myself that I do need to be more willing to speak at the moment something happens, or very soon afterwards.  Things like that catch me out and my priority is always to protect son so I focus on him first, and then the moment passes.  So I will need to work on that.

I also woke up this morning feeling sad because I don't really feel like we are friends anymore.  Too much time has passed without any contact and I don't feel the connection that I used to.  I'll help her out, of course, but I just have an awareness again of being the one that helps, rather than the one that socialises or the one whose company is desired.  Not attaching any blame or reasoning to it, it's just how I feel and I'm acknowledging it and letting it go.

Weekend is here :) I've been making a list of nice things I want to do at home - sewing projects, photos I want to rearrange, furniture I want to upcycle and so on.  I'm planning on spending the weekend doing those jobs and will probably make more brownies as well (they were delicious, quick to make and they're good to put in your bag for a snack later in the day).  I really want to start enjoying my life again.  Thank you all for being there and listening, it means a lot :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on February 29, 2020, 07:13:49 AM
Well, bombshell!  My sister called me this morning to let me know that our uncle had passed away.  We knew he was in a hospice so it wasn't unexpected but obviously very sad.  My sister had been informed by text, by our mother, who reported on (in this order) the coronavirus thing, her headache and then an oblique comment about it being a shame about uncle.  My sister had to reply to clarify whether he'd actually passed because it wasn't clear from the mention she'd tagged on to the end of her text and yes, he's passed away.

The main point of my sister's call, other than to let me know about him, was to tell me that she'd seen a psychiatrist recently, who felt she needed to start long term counseling to help her deal with her abusive childhood.  My sister was perplexed as she has never considered herself an abused child (I can remember feeling the same when my counselor started talking about my abusive childhood; I thought she'd muddled me up with someone else).  We have been on the phone for nearly two hours, having the most open and honest conversation that we've ever had.  She told me about how guilty she felt when we got back in contact and she started to realise how much of what my mum had told her about me wasn't true, and when she saw how my son's difficulties were genuine and not a figment of my imagination.  She's told me about some stuff that my mum's done to her that I didn't know about, and some of the things she's done to my sister's kids, all emotionally abusive stuff of the same kind that she's done to us, and how difficult she finds it to deal with that because the kids still want to see her.  She told me that, even after all these years of me not speaking to my mum, my mum mentions me every time she and my sister speak, whatever they might be talking about, and how that upsets her because when we were kids my mum favoured me over her and she knows she shouldn't feel upset about it but she still does (and I get that completely because I have the same thing about other situations).  I voiced for the first time that I knew mum favoured me over her when we were young and how wrong I thought it was and how much guilt I have had about that over the years and she told me how much she appreciated hearing that.  I also explained that I still find it hard not to do mum stuff - not to buy her a birthday gift or a mother's day card, and she said that's partly why she finds it hard to just disconnect from her - she's still her mum. She started to say something about step-dad and then stopped.  I didn't push her - if there is a revelation there she will come to it in her own time, when she's ready.

It was a proper, grown up conversation, probably the first we've ever had.  I told her how much therapy has helped me over the years and how she'll probably find a lot of stuff starts making sense as she works through it.  I've also said I'm happy to support her as things come up and if she wants to talk about stuff we can do that as needed.  We've both come off the phone sad about Uncle but happy about each other and I've honestly never felt like that before.  Phew.  My quiet weekend has suddenly changed in to a very full one, albeit in a very different way! xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on February 29, 2020, 12:55:46 PM
I'm jotting down my observations as they come up and trying to just notice things and not attach blame or anything else to them.  It feels like you're getting the very most from every second of T, Tupp.  Taking notes and planning ahead for sessions.  THIS is paying attention to your internal world..... this is what you're leaning and DOING.  YES.A lot came up about my step-dad this week.  A few other things have niggled - doctor's form coming through, same doc hasn't sent me some information I requested but has found the time to send me stuff I didn't request.  Unnecessary meeting with college (and everything behind that), son's birthday - still waiting for responses from two people which is starting to cause him anxiety.  All of these kids have similar problems so it does bug me that other parents don't get on and deal with things when they know it might be causing one of the others problems.  No word from friends over half term - all waiting for me to visit them.  And so on.  It's been fine, none of these things are affecting me anywhere near as much as they have before and I'm just seeing them ping up and getting on with what I was doing anyway.  But I did wake up early hours of the morning and I could feel his weight crushing me.  A whole load of very intense physical flashbacks came then and it was very horrible and unpleasant.  I got up, made up my nest on the sofa and got in it and cried.  I'm going to ask T if we can work on all those physical things at the next session and I'm scheduling myself a week off afterwards because I think letting all of that lot out might have a big impact.  I invite you to make a list of the horrible things that come up.... little sentences you can hand the T for next session so you get on with the session and not explaining what needs attention... maybe.  Not sure, but it seems you've identified the next issue.  Honestly, it feels like your T moves with economy of motion and gets to the issues without frittering any time away.

It's an amazing shift to understand leaning into the pain of our past leads to immediate lasting relief.  You're doing a splendid job with this, TUPP!

 


In other news - bumped into a friend yesterday who is one of the ones I've hardly seen since we moved down and who hasn't been very supportive of the horrible situation I was in last year.  She has cancer - second time for her and she's having chemo.  I'm sorry to read that, Tupp.

I've noticed that I've been able to detach myself from the situation and look at things objectively and just accept my feelings for what they are and not need to justify them to myself, which is good.  She's looking in to alternative treatments and general health and wellbeing type stuff and I offered to get information together for her.  We met up after lunch and talked.  I noticed how much freer some people are with talking very openly about their personal information in public spaces.  I would only feel comfortable talking about things like that indoors, with no-one else around, or very quietly in a public space, but even then I would be very selective about what I say.  She was nicer to my son than she was the last time we saw her.  Last time we visited her (and it's been one of the reasons I haven't been back over) she walked away from him mid sentence, as he was telling her about something.  He was absolutely crushed.  Things like that really upset him.  I realised this morning that I should have said something about that at the time.  I won't bring it up now as I don't feel it's appropriate given what else is going on but it made me make a little note to myself that I do need to be more willing to speak at the moment something happens, or very soon afterwards. I've noticed I can speak up with compassion and without anxiety some of the time, but not all of the time.  Sometimes it correlates with BIG stress happening without rumination.  Rumination seems to build reactivity or reactivity builds rumination?
 Staying out of the amygdala is likely the trick... I guess.
Things like that catch me out and my priority is always to protect son so I focus on him first, and then the moment passes.  So I will need to work on that.  I can picture you handling that moment..... without drama or conflict.... something like...."You know, ds is telling you a story....  Lets allow him to finish before moving on."
Then you smile with expectation and compassion for everyone in the room.


I also woke up this morning feeling sad because I don't really feel like we are friends anymore.  Too much time has passed without any contact and I don't feel the connection that I used to.  I'll help her out, of course, but I just have an awareness again of being the one that helps, rather than the one that socialises or the one whose company is desired.  Not attaching any blame or reasoning to it, it's just how I feel and I'm acknowledging it and letting it go.  It's OK to be sad.  It's human to process loss and make peace with it.

Weekend is here :) I've been making a list of nice things I want to do at home - sewing projects, photos I want to rearrange, furniture I want to upcycle and so on.  I'm planning on spending the weekend doing those jobs and will probably make more brownies as well (they were delicious, quick to make and they're good to put in your bag for a snack later in the day). Brownies are comforting and lovely to share, IME.  I really want to start enjoying my life again.  Thank you all for being there and listening, it means a lot :) xx

It's amazing... and hard to believe sometimes, isn't it?  How different it is to look forward to life again.  To have joy and be excited about tomorrow... isn't it?

You're strong and smart and I can't wait to read about your creative projects: )  Is anything planned for the garden?

Lighter

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 01, 2020, 04:32:43 AM
Thanks, Lighter  ((((((((((((((((Lighter))))))))))))))))))))

I've said for years that I feel like one of those hedgehogs that you get at the funfair - the ones that stick their heads up through holes and you have to whack them with a hammer - WackAMole, they call it here (and I just realised as I wrote that that they must be moles, not hedgehogs, but I always thought they were hedgehogs so I'm sticking with that :) ).  But I felt like, whatever I did, however I did it, something just kept pushing me back down, stopping me from moving me forward, holding me under.  And that hasn't gone completely, but I definitely feel a lot more hopeful and optimistic.

I'm pottering today and it's nice not to have a timetable.  We need a few groceries but I can pop out to get those later and it's not much.  It's finally stopped raining so it won't be a battle through the weather, as it has been for weeks now.  I can go as soon as the shops open, or I can leave it until half an hour before they close.  It won't matter either way, and it's not stressing me about what time to go.  The internal chatter has all just died right down.  And that alone feels nice.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on March 01, 2020, 07:20:41 AM
Tupp, I'm amazed and so happy for you about the honest sharing from your sister. Healing that relationship, if it continues, could heal a lot about the past.

It also sounds to me as though you took it on (her revelations) without taking it IN (making it your problem). And that is brilliant. So important.

Be aware of taking care of yourself, even while this unfolds....

Wow. Your life is like a blooming crocus. It's as though you had winter for years and real spring is arriving.

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 01, 2020, 08:48:31 AM
Tupp, I'm amazed and so happy for you about the honest sharing from your sister. Healing that relationship, if it continues, could heal a lot about the past.

It also sounds to me as though you took it on (her revelations) without taking it IN (making it your problem). And that is brilliant. So important.

Be aware of taking care of yourself, even while this unfolds....

Wow. Your life is like a blooming crocus. It's as though you had winter for years and real spring is arriving.

hugs
Hops

Hops, you have hit all the nails on the head there!  That is exactly how I felt with her, and with the friend I saw who has cancer again.  I'm happy to help, but I genuinely don't feel like I have to rush in there and fix everything for everyone (and then get upset when they don't follow my suggestions or don't reciprocate next time I need help).  I feel like I can help without taking it on as my own personal responsibility.  I did say to my sis that I'm happy to talk things through with her but that I'm still working on my own issues so there might be days when I'm not up to doing it, and if that was the case I'd just tell her straight "I can't deal with this today" and it's about me, not her (as in, she's not done something wrong, I'm just not able to do it there and then).  I felt fine saying it and she said of course, no problem, I wouldn't expect you to be constantly available anyway.  I do feel tired today, I must admit, I think talking about my step-dad again has stirred a few things up.  But I am taking care of myself (currently sitting on sofa with son, feet up, letting dinner go down).  She sent me a text my mum has sent her and it's classic mum - she's created a drama out of nothing and is now portraying herself as the victim and no-one has a clue why as there wasn't a problem to start with.  It's incredibly confusing when you're on the receiving end of that.  It's like trying to catch air.  So I said "just say, it wasn't a problem mum, yes, sunny here as well, enjoy the afternoon" and don't be drawn in to anything and leave it there.  It didn't trigger me and I don't feel a sense of frustration if she doesn't follow the advice.  I can withdraw at any time and that feels perfectly comfortable.  Yes!  I am a crocus!  I've even got my flowery trousers on today :)  Lol.  Hope all is well with you xx xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on March 01, 2020, 02:59:09 PM
Well done, Tupp! 

Life is easier when co-dependant habits drop away.  So much nicer to offer help, when it's asked for.  Nice to pitch in IF we have time and energy and not out of reactivity and need to fix things for other people.  To help without sacrificing or needing a certain outcome.  Nice: )

I like reading about you relaxing into your life, without worry.... trusting you'll do what needs doing when you get to it.  I notice that in my life too.

I danced in the kitchen and sang LOW with youngest dd today.  Even though we have tons of laundry and cleaning to do.... there's time for joy, and honestly... joy is an imperative.  Cleaning is..... necessary. 

Apple Bottom jeans... boots with the fur... the whole club was looking at her... she hit the floor... next thing you know, Shorty got low, low, low, low, low, low, low....
SO MUCH FUN!


Lighter



Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 02, 2020, 09:40:27 AM
Well done, Tupp! 

Life is easier when co-dependant habits drop away.  So much nicer to offer help, when it's asked for.  Nice to pitch in IF we have time and energy and not out of reactivity and need to fix things for other people.  To help without sacrificing or needing a certain outcome.  Nice: )

I like reading about you relaxing into your life, without worry.... trusting you'll do what needs doing when you get to it.  I notice that in my life too.

I danced in the kitchen and sang LOW with youngest dd today.  Even though we have tons of laundry and cleaning to do.... there's time for joy, and honestly... joy is an imperative.  Cleaning is..... necessary. 

Apple Bottom jeans... boots with the fur... the whole club was looking at her... she hit the floor... next thing you know, Shorty got low, low, low, low, low, low, low....
SO MUCH FUN!


Lighter

Ha ha, Lighter, my son loves that one too, nothing like a bit of singing and dancing!

Yes, I'm definitely not at optimum level yet but the difference just over a few weeks is amazing.  And when I spoke to sis earlier she said mum has been texting her and she's just ignored her, which is a change for her.  Usually there would be umpteen messages going back and forth and then it would be all over Facebook and so on.  But she's just said no and that's that.

For me today, I've been very productive!  Did yoga first thing, washing is out on the line, dinner is prepped for later on (we're off to cinema tonight).  Son is back to college tomorrow (boo!) but have had one more yes to his birthday dinner and one of the other mums might stay as her daughter is anxious about new places and she sounds nice so I might get some company!  And I have sat at my desk for a couple of hours just catching up on stuff - emails, phone calls, bills that need paying, things that needed chasing up, dates to double check and so on.  Just about done now so I've a bit of time to tidy up before dinner and then I think I might put my feet up for a bit before we go out :)  It's a nice, nice day.  I want more like this :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on March 02, 2020, 12:49:30 PM
Oh, Tupp.... I believe you'll have many more days like this.

You're puzzling out the code for your life.
I don't think you'll ever go back to the way things were.  You're growing and changing.... there's an amazing upward trajectory of understanding....
 shedding reactivity.  Recognizing reactivity. 

Sure, negative stuff's going to pop up every once and again, but that's just something asking for attention.  You're learning how to tend to yourself with a T and on your own. 

There's just no way you'll go backward, IME.   

::nodding::.

I'm stopping for a moment to celebrate what you've achieved in this short time, Tupp. 

Really....
fantastik work.

::clapping happily for sister Tupp!::.

Lighter

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 02, 2020, 04:16:01 PM
Oh, Tupp.... I believe you'll have many more days like this.

You're puzzling out the code for your life.
I don't think you'll ever go back to the way things were.  You're growing and changing.... there's an amazing upward trajectory of understanding....
 shedding reactivity.  Recognizing reactivity. 

Sure, negative stuff's going to pop up every once and again, but that's just something asking for attention.  You're learning how to tend to yourself with a T and on your own. 

There's just no way you'll go backward, IME.   

::nodding::.

I'm stopping for a moment to celebrate what you've achieved in this short time, Tupp. 

Really....
fantastik work.

::clapping happily for sister Tupp!::.

Lighter

Ah, thanks, Lighter :)  You would be smiling if you could see my desk right now :)  It is clean and clutter free.  My supplies are tidy and ordered.  There's a pile of paper waiting to be shredded tomorrow and when we got home tonight and I walked in to my clean desk and the smell of jasmine from the incense I was burning earlier I smiled to myself.  And now I'm imagining what it will feel like to walk in one day and see a clear space where those 36 box files are currently sitting.  Definitely a clean and clear out in the offing.  It feels nice! xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 04, 2020, 07:53:19 AM
Hello my lovely friends, well, this week is not going quite so well.  The sexual abuse stuff is coming up thick and fast and my T is away at the moment, back next week (appointment already booked).  My anxiety has been high due to son going back to college (he's been in one day and is already exhausted) and trying to sort out his birthday has been stressful and busy.  My uncle passed as I mentioned and I'm not able to go to the funeral as mum and step-dad will be there.  This has made me feel sad as it's another way my mum's tentacles still control aspects of my life but I'll go and visit my aunty another time; I have explained it to her and she understands.  I've run out of my cannabis oil which had been helping a lot; it's a few weeks now since I had some and I am really feeling the difference, plus I am pre-menstrual so that usual things are going on there.  All in all it's been a difficult few days but I am just putting one foot in front of the other and keeping on moving.  I had a feeling my mum was going to get in touch and I was right.  She has sent my son a birthday card which I've opened (he doesn't know and I won't be showing it to him).  It's an endlessly gushing card about what a wonderful grandson he is and in it she's enclosed a photograph of her favourite photo of him, a photo of a star that someone has bought him (she doesn't say who, of course) and has written him a letter where she talks about how much she loves and missed him, talks to his photo every day and that she has photo albums of him from when he was little which she will give to me if I arrange for someone to collect them and if not, she will give them to his Dad.  It is just full of little digs at me and this is how she manipulates - who gave her my address (again?).  Why is she in contact with my son's dad when I (and he) are not?  Who bought him a star and gave it to her?  And so on.  It's not that I care - I really don't anymore, they can all coexist in their mad little cesspit and carry on being arseholes - it's just that I can see the way her mind works and how she gaslights and triangulates and deceives people, herself included.  My sister spoke to her yesterday about the huge drama that blew up over the weekend between them (my mum's brother in law has died so of course all attention has to be on mum, she can't have anyone focus too much on his widow).  My sister left it for a couple of days and then tried to talk to my mum and she said she just shape shifts.  She denies saying or doing anything and then when presented with other people who heard her say it claims they misheard or they're lying.  Once she sees she can't convince anyone of anything else she goes in to victim mode and it's all about how awful everyone is to her, how she'd be better off never speaking because everyone misunderstands her and she always seems to put her foot in it and so on.  I do find myself wondering again if she might be autistic (as I wonder the same thing about myself as well) but that aside, I think there is still a lot of other stuff going on there (the kind of deceit and gaslighting that goes on is so much more than misunderstanding conversation or misreading body language, for example).  She really is just batty.

I am trying to ignore but I can feel it rising up in my chest and I wonder, again, why on earth she keeps doing this, but more than that, why other people keep feeding her and helping her do it.  I'm just going to get on with my day but honestly, my lovely friends, right now I feel like I want to be sitting on a tropical beach with my son with no phone, no internet and no way on or off the beach so that she just can't bloody get to us.  Stupid, silly, pointless woman.  I am deep breathing and carrying on with getting things ready for tomorrow xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on March 04, 2020, 11:28:50 AM
Hello my lovely friends, well, this week is not going quite so well.  The sexual abuse stuff is coming up thick and fast and my T is away at the moment, back next week (appointment already booked).  My anxiety has been high due to son going back to college (he's been in one day and is already exhausted) and trying to sort out his birthday has been stressful and busy.  My uncle passed as I mentioned and I'm not able to go to the funeral as mum and step-dad will be there.  This has made me feel sad as it's another way my mum's tentacles still control aspects of my life but I'll go and visit my aunty another time;Yes, you will.  And you can write a letter to your Uncle, or make a collage and build a fire and the Amazons will meet you there and help you grieve and find closure with your Uncle.  Whatever you need to do, you can do without going to the service.  I have explained it to her and she understands. I'm sure that feels comforting for you both. I've run out of my cannabis oil which had been helping a lot; it's a few weeks now since I had some and I am really feeling the difference, plus I am pre-menstrual so that usual things are going on there.  All in all it's been a difficult few days but I am just putting one foot in front of the other and keeping on moving. How do you get more oil? I had a feeling my mum was going to get in touch and I was right.  She has sent my son a birthday card which I've opened (he doesn't know and I won't be showing it to him).  It's an endlessly gushing card about what a wonderful grandson he is and in it she's enclosed a photograph of her favourite photo of him, a photo of a star that someone has bought him (she doesn't say who, of course) and has written him a letter where she talks about how much she loves and missed him, talks to his photo Holy F. every day and that she has photo albums of him from when he was little which she will give to me if I arrange for someone to collect them and if not, she will give them to his Dad. Crazy wench. It is just full of little digs at me and this is how she manipulates - who gave her my address (again?).  I've found it's really difficult to stay off the grid, Tupp.  Maybe she found you on the internet somehow.  Through one of the . employees in an agency with that information?  And... does it matter at this point how, or if she has it?  I'm posing that question seriously.Why is she in contact with my son's dad when I (and he) are not? Because she has very little ways to reach out and touch you now, Tupp.  That man is one way and as you can tell.... she's got your attention. Who bought him a star and gave it to her?  And so on.  It's not that I care - I really don't anymore, they can all coexist in their mad little cesspit and carry on being arseholes And they will.- it's just that I can see the way her mind works and how she gaslights and triangulates and deceives people, herself included. Some things never change, unfortunately.  But they will end. My sister spoke to her yesterday about the huge drama that blew up over the weekend between them (my mum's brother in law has died so of course all attention has to be on mum, she can't have anyone focus too much on his widow).  My sister left it for a couple of days and then tried to talk to my mum and she said she just shape shifts.  She denies saying or doing anything and then when presented with other people who heard her say it claims they misheard or they're lying.  Once she sees she can't convince anyone of anything else she goes in to victim mode and it's all about how awful everyone is to her, how she'd be better off never speaking because everyone misunderstands her and she always seems to put her foot in it and so on. That seems to be catching up to her now. I do find myself wondering again if she might be autistic (as I wonder the same thing about myself as well) but that aside, I think there is still a lot of other stuff going on there (the kind of deceit and gaslighting that goes on is so much more than misunderstanding conversation or misreading body language, for example).  She really is just batty.  Yup.

I am trying to ignore but I can feel it rising up in my chest and I wonder, again, why on earth she keeps doing this, but more than that, why other people keep feeding her and helping her do it. That's the more frustrating question, IMO too. Disordered people do disordered things, bc they're disordered.
 The enablers have more complicated reasons, IME and we won't figure either out, IME.  Getting to the point where we don't need or want to figure it out is a relief of grand proportions, IME.
I'm just going to get on with my day but honestly, my lovely friends, right now I feel like I want to be sitting on a tropical beach with my son with no phone, no internet and no way on or off the beach so that she just can't bloody get to us.  I think you're on your beach now, Tupp. I think you have the power to find your beach if you lose it.  Your family sometimes walks onto your beach, but I think you have the power to limit or barr them permanently when it's time. Stupid, silly, pointless woman.  I am deep breathing and carrying on with getting things ready for tomorrow xx  you're doing such a great job of noticing this stuff as it comes up and naming it.  Your mother's been in contact with son's f before.  I think it speaks to her inability to reach you in other ways.  I think these are her final negative gasps in your life and inner world... considering the work you're doing and material you're working through with new T.

Keep breathing, ((Tupp))  I'm looking forward to update after next T appointment, should you choose to share: )
  Lighter 

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 04, 2020, 02:14:00 PM
Thanks, Lighter, do you know what, I think it's alright.  I was worried it was going to start spiraling and getting all through my head but I picked son up from college, we walked back into town and caught the bus home, chatted about his day and he's so excited about his birthday tomorrow :)  I checked out everything I bought him and I'm going to wrap it when he's in the bath later.  I've got some decorations that I'll put up in the morning before he gets up.  We've got two cakes, one for college, one for home and he's got his pizza night tomorrow which should be really good fun.  He's had a lot of cards through the post (from nice people!), I've had several people phone or message today to wish him Happy Birthday and two friends messaged to tell me they've put money in his savings account for him.  Dinner's cooking, I'm enjoying the book I'm reading and I'm looking forward to an early night so that I can get up early tomorrow.  All the good bits seem to have just pushed her and her madness away, which is good.  I've a feeling the person giving her my address is my aunty (not the one whose husband just died, the other one).  I'm very careful about what goes on the internet; we're not in the phone directory or on the public electoral roll (you can register to vote but keep your address private so we do that).  I do a search on myself every now and again and nothing comes up after about 2005 but, it doesn't matter anyway, there are just people you need to have in your life and people that you don't and she definitely falls in to that category.  I am just soooo glad that I reached out for help all those years ago and that I've done this work.  I've connected with you guys, I've connected with myself, I've worked on myself and I keep working to keep myself healthy and well.  I won't ever be like her and that makes me happy.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 05, 2020, 09:08:46 AM
I've tried very hard to keep my mum out of my head today and I've managed it fairly well, although she's in there a bit.  I think the thing that bothers me (and hurts me) is that she only ever reaches out to hurt.  She's never, ever, reached out to try to talk, understand, make peace, reach and agreement or anything else like that.  She'll go to huge lengths to cause problems, but never to try to solve them.  It does make me physically ill - I feel like I've been run over today.  But I'm trying to ignore it.

He's having a lovely birthday :)  He liked his presents, he loves his phone, they had cake at college and we're going out for pizza with his friends tonight.  It's freezing cold but it's dry and we're at home now with the heating on.  I think I'm going to try to get a little nap in before we go out :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on March 05, 2020, 09:49:54 AM
((((Tuppp))))))
I thought I had posted this reply to you yesterday, dunno what happened. Two facts popped up for me from your earlier post:

Quote
I can see the way her mind works and how she gaslights and triangulates and deceives people, herself included.

Yes. That is just so clear, and has been for so long. It's who she is, you are no longer yearning for her to be something else, because you've accepted this reality. And, you're no longer welcoming it into your mind or heart or home. Annoying to get a card periodically, but you can quickly dispose of it. And she's getting too old to intimidate with visits, imo. You really have moved into a new chapter, Tupp, don't forget.

AND

Quote
My sister spoke to her yesterday about the huge drama[....]

Though it may be healing and wonderful to have understanding and new connection with your sister, Tupp, I hope you'll forgive some unsolicited advice just now. I think this is a really important juncture for you. What you might consider if you're open to doing this is reminding yourself that despite loving your sister and being glad you've reconnected, your ongoing commitment to your own well-being is going to mean boundaries with her, too. She will be full of need to express HER stuff about your mum. But that's HER work on HER timetable. You are way way way farther along and don't need to go back to square one.

My point is, here's a great opportunity to practice simple assertiveness. No anger or fear needed, just that you could practice assertive statements with sis, because it's good for you to remember you are not a human sponge. Even though it feels natural in a moment to absorb a lot of mum-info...in fact it does still impact you if there's too much of it. That's all I'm saying. Not a phobic never-speak-her-name thing, but just....Tupp to self: how much of this is good for me to do today, kind of thing.

Statements such as:
"I'm glad you called, it means a lot to me that we talk. I'm just up for about 10-minutes of Mum-stuff today though."

"I understand, you know I do. But that's it for me on Mum for this time. How is [something else in Sis' life] going?"

OR...

"Hey, it's good to hear your voice! But today I'm not into talking about Mum. Let's catch up about [whatever] though....blah and blah."

"Been thinking of you and hope things are going better. Have a few minutes?"

These are not brilliant "scripts" (those links I plonked somewhere a day or two ago, with assertiveness techniques, are full of ideas)...but the gist is, YOU can stay aware of how much detail about your Mum you want to take in at any given moment. You can take care of yourself in that moment without forgetting it. It's okay to do that, in fact it's wise to.

Still celebrate the healing potential of connecting with your sister. I just hope you'll hang on to the boundaries and assertiveness tools as simple self protection, because you deserve to continue your healing work with the T while not upending it during contacts with your sister. And those contacts with sis are a great opportunity to experience how you can do it. If you find you can't, you have that right, too.

I believe you can do this. It's really just a dance of self-care, self-love. Nobody else has to approve of it and your sis doesn't have to fully understand it either. When assertiveness becomes natural and calm (it's never about anger, as that's just fear) and routine...it's just a serene new way of taking care of ourselves and interacting with others. And this could be a great opportunity to practice it. Or so it sounds so far to me.

I'm happy for you, Tupp.

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on March 05, 2020, 07:52:41 PM
I think you're crushing it, Tupp.   You keep doing what you neeed to do.  You honor yourself and your instincts.  Rest when you can and need to.

I'm guessing the next appt with T will be an amazing exorcism of Mum/SF issues.  Yup yup yup.

((Tupp))

Happy Birthday to darling boy.  Pizza and cake, yum!

Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 06, 2020, 03:52:29 AM
I think you're crushing it, Tupp.   You keep doing what you neeed to do.  You honor yourself and your instincts.  Rest when you can and need to.

I'm guessing the next appt with T will be an amazing exorcism of Mum/SF issues.  Yup yup yup.

((Tupp))

Happy Birthday to darling boy.  Pizza and cake, yum!

Lighter

Thanks, Lighter :)  It's going to be a veeeeery relaxing weekend.  Other than a quick trip to the shop to pick up a few supplies there is nothing scheduled and definitely nothing desired at the moment :)  The pizza evening was lovely, the kids at that college are lovely but from talking to them I would say they are all way more capable than son - which would explain why it's wearing him out so much.  But - it was a lovely evening, they're all really sweet, one of them cracked jokes the whole time ("What do you call an alpaca that wakes you up in the morning?  A lama clock") Lol, I was in stitches.  And the waiting staff were so sweet with them all, gave them time to pick out what they wanted, helped them with different options and so on.  It was great.  Yep, I am thinking, "Out, darn spot" on Tuesday.  I think step dad is the biggie; those physical flashbacks have troubled me for years and this time they were clearer in the sense I could kind of feel it moving up my body and getting stuck in my chest.  That awareness is there, I just haven't been able to get it out by myself.  I feel confident that T will know what to do :)  Thank you :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 06, 2020, 04:05:47 AM
((((Tuppp))))))
I thought I had posted this reply to you yesterday, dunno what happened. Two facts popped up for me from your earlier post:

Quote
I can see the way her mind works and how she gaslights and triangulates and deceives people, herself included.

Yes. That is just so clear, and has been for so long. It's who she is, you are no longer yearning for her to be something else, because you've accepted this reality. And, you're no longer welcoming it into your mind or heart or home. Annoying to get a card periodically, but you can quickly dispose of it. And she's getting too old to intimidate with visits, imo. You really have moved into a new chapter, Tupp, don't forget.

AND

Quote
My sister spoke to her yesterday about the huge drama[....]

Though it may be healing and wonderful to have understanding and new connection with your sister, Tupp, I hope you'll forgive some unsolicited advice just now. I think this is a really important juncture for you. What you might consider if you're open to doing this is reminding yourself that despite loving your sister and being glad you've reconnected, your ongoing commitment to your own well-being is going to mean boundaries with her, too. She will be full of need to express HER stuff about your mum. But that's HER work on HER timetable. You are way way way farther along and don't need to go back to square one.

My point is, here's a great opportunity to practice simple assertiveness. No anger or fear needed, just that you could practice assertive statements with sis, because it's good for you to remember you are not a human sponge. Even though it feels natural in a moment to absorb a lot of mum-info...in fact it does still impact you if there's too much of it. That's all I'm saying. Not a phobic never-speak-her-name thing, but just....Tupp to self: how much of this is good for me to do today, kind of thing.

Statements such as:
"I'm glad you called, it means a lot to me that we talk. I'm just up for about 10-minutes of Mum-stuff today though."

"I understand, you know I do. But that's it for me on Mum for this time. How is [something else in Sis' life] going?"

OR...

"Hey, it's good to hear your voice! But today I'm not into talking about Mum. Let's catch up about [whatever] though....blah and blah."

"Been thinking of you and hope things are going better. Have a few minutes?"

These are not brilliant "scripts" (those links I plonked somewhere a day or two ago, with assertiveness techniques, are full of ideas)...but the gist is, YOU can stay aware of how much detail about your Mum you want to take in at any given moment. You can take care of yourself in that moment without forgetting it. It's okay to do that, in fact it's wise to.

Still celebrate the healing potential of connecting with your sister. I just hope you'll hang on to the boundaries and assertiveness tools as simple self protection, because you deserve to continue your healing work with the T while not upending it during contacts with your sister. And those contacts with sis are a great opportunity to experience how you can do it. If you find you can't, you have that right, too.

I believe you can do this. It's really just a dance of self-care, self-love. Nobody else has to approve of it and your sis doesn't have to fully understand it either. When assertiveness becomes natural and calm (it's never about anger, as that's just fear) and routine...it's just a serene new way of taking care of ourselves and interacting with others. And this could be a great opportunity to practice it. Or so it sounds so far to me.

I'm happy for you, Tupp.

Hugs
Hops

Hopsie, I'm on it!  Lol, I will be keeping a total focus on myself and I'm not feeling any guilt at doing so - or even at knowing I might say yes to something and then change my mind and say no afterwards.  Even that feels okay.  I will look at those assertiveness links but I have already said to her that I'm happy to talk and help her through it but that I'm also still dealing with my own stuff in various ways so there might be times when I need to say, sorry, can't listen today, it's just too much.  I've said it won't be about you, it's about me needing to take time to look after myself and obviously son as well and she said yep, totally gets it and wouldn't expect me to spend hours talking things through on the phone.  I felt okay saying and she seemed to be alright hearing it, but it will be an ongoing test on my part, I think, not to leap in and fix everything for her (although I don't even feel like doing it.  I really do feel now that you can only fix stuff when you're ready so other people trying to do it for you just doesn't work.  I used to struggle to get my head around that but now it feels much easier).  I think she and I have gone at this from different ways.  Finding out my mum was crazy, how abusive our relationship was, how dysfunctional the rest of the family were, was all like a bombshell for me.  And I wanted out straight away.  My sister has kind of been aware of the current crazy (the childhood stuff blew her away a bit but the here and now stuff is obvious to her) but she's basically just put up with it for years.  So it might be easier for her to understand the logistics of it all and the psychology behind it (whereas for me I kept thinking if I could make them see how messed up their behaviour was they'd stop doing it).  I don't think she has that expectation.

And I have written my mum a letter.  Don't know whether or not I'll send it yet.  It's not an angry letter.  It's not being written with an expectation or desire for any kind of response or action and interestingly, I really do feel like it's just about me writing my view without caring about what anyone else things about it.  I've re-drafted it a couple of times already and I'll keep doing it until I feel like it says what I want it to.  And whether I send it or not I don't know, but what I've noticed is that the tension in my shoulders eases as I write it and I'm not sensing any fear at what her reaction might be.  Genuinely, at this stage, I am starting to really genuinely feel like there's nothing she can do to us now.  Pheeeeeew.  I don't know if that feeling will stay there but it does feel like there's a little space around my heart that wasn't there before.  Advice is always appreciated, Hops, unsolicited or not :)  It's the weekend!  Woo hoo! xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on March 06, 2020, 11:17:59 AM
WOWZERS.

Tupp, that is just amazing. All of it. Every single bit.

Except it's not amazing at all. Because this is you now.

Wise, calm, mature, centered, healing, growing, and OKAY.

You are SO okay.

I am soooooo delighted.

Big hugs, massive kudos--and much much respect.

Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on March 06, 2020, 02:56:34 PM
I think it really does feel like more space around the heart, Tupp.  I think maybe there is more space?  Certainly feels that way to me too: )

Woo hoo WEEKEND TIME!

It's cold as a witch's you know what here. Very high winds..... snow fluttering about. Stay warm, Tupp. 
Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 07, 2020, 04:39:31 AM
Thanks, both of you, I really do feel like I've kind of got this?  I don't feel like I'm flailing or drowning as much as usual.  College definitely brings anxiety and I was anxious about his birthday (first time we've ever done a group thing - I asked him this morning if he enjoyed it and he said, "hmm, it wasn't too bad".  Lol).  But he loves his new gadgets and he's connected his phone to his wireless headphones so that when we go to Dane Church next he can listen to his own music on his phone which is great.

I felt pretty awful yesterday - very tired and worn down, ached all over.  But the guy came out to repair the bathroom window cill so that is good as new now and I can start putting everything back in the bathroom today.  Son was great this morning; we sorted out all the dishes, tidied the kitchen, did the bins and recycling, sorted out laundry and got laundry ready to go on tomorrow.  He really is a help with that sort of thing now; I can give him instructions and he'll get on with it while I get on with something else so all the years of it taking three times longer getting him to do it as well are starting to pay off.

The weather is grim here, again, that is getting me down a bit.  I would love to feel the sun on my face again now.  But other than a trip to the arcade and getting a few groceries we don't have to go out.  Nothing scheduled for tomorrow so I am looking forward to a lazy day there.

Sis is due to phone this morning - I've planned ahead and am going to tell her at the start of the call that I've got half an hour - in a nice way, but I want to keep myself functioning and doing what I want at the same time as being supportive so I don't want to find the whole morning's gone by.  T is back next week and I am looking forward to the session and my cannabis oil, which I do think has been helping a lot, should be back in stock next week as well so hopefully back on a bit of an even course again now :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 07, 2020, 05:30:53 AM
Okay, we just spoke on the phone, I think I handled it okay :)  It turned out we were both going out this morning so neither could talk indefinitely so that was good from the outset :)  The argument she had with mum was about her (my sister) refusing to tell my mum anything about my son.  That led to a long text based argument where my mum starts bringing up stuff that happened years ago and just goes round and round in circles.  My sister read my some of the texts and honestly, guys, my mum's mind is unravelled.  She's on a different wavelength to anyone else and I do wonder how much damage the drinking has done.  My mum was an intelligent woman with a good level of literacy and used to be able to write good letters, she knew how to word things and understood just the basics of constructing a sentence and that sort of thing.  But this garbled mess she's sending my sister doesn't even make sense grammatically, I had to ask my sister to repeat a few things and even then it still didn't make sense.  I am just, again, glad I've done this work on myself and am so glad I have all of you here to bounce things off of :)

I did feel a ping when my sister said again that part of the argument is that my mum contacts her to talk about me.  She said she's never felt good enough to fill the space that I left when I stopped talking to my mum and told my mum that (to which she received a nonsensical response about an unpaid cheque or something; it made no sense at all).  I think the ping is partly sadness that my mum still doesn't bother with either of us in a way that's about us - it's always about meeting her needs and satisfying something inside her and partly a bit of guilt.  I know I shouldn't have guilt but my mum did massively favour me over my sister when we were kids and my sister's said to me before if I told my mum I wanted to make up, she'd drop my sister again in a heartbeat.  That's hard to know, on both sides, and although I know the guilt isn't mine to own, I think there is a little bit of it in there.  But it was only a small ping and overall I didn't feel a big reaction when talking to her.  I'll keep an eye on myself to see if anything comes up but I do feel like I might be at an alright place with most of it now xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 07, 2020, 05:56:36 AM
And just adding as I think of it - the conversation I've had with my sister means I won't be sending that letter to my mum, it's just going to be a journal based/therapy type exercise for me.  Any kind of contact with her is like getting caught in a spider's web.  I've been thinking about how much easier my life has been simply by not having her in it, in any way, shape or form.  So I will carry on moving forward, doing my thing, looking after my boy and enjoying my life.  I can support my sister through her own journey now without losing myself in it or getting caught up in it all again.  I think it's a bit like being an alcoholic and getting to that point where you can be around people drinking without wanting one yourself (or at least being able to recognise when you might and going home at that point).  It feels alright :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 07, 2020, 01:08:54 PM
Well I've been thinking about it all more during the day!  What I like about this EMDR stuff is that it's calmed down all the mental chatter, so my little brain can whirr away thinking about other stuff while I get on with the day to day essentials and then things just pop into my head and it feels alright.

I was thinking about the conversation with my sister this morning and about how her row with Mum was about her refusing to tell Mum anything about my son (as she knows it would bother me).  But I've been thinking about it during the day, and I'm not actually bothered about her knowing how he's doing.  It doesn't mean there needs to be any contact between us and it doesn't have to be detailed information.  In fact, what keeps going through my mind is that in all these years she's never just done the most obvious thing, which is to write and ask how he is.

So -  have re-written my letter again, and just changed it into a letter about how he's doing.  There's no information that she can take away and do anything weird with.  There's nothing in it that she could take off somewhere and create a fuss over.  It just basically says, he's fine, he likes doing x, y and z.  It also makes it clear that he doesn't want any contact (which is true, I do ask him if he wants to get in touch with her and he always says no) but that I don't mind sending her something every now and again.  I don't even feel, at the moment, that I mind sending her a picture of him with it.  It kind of feels like it might be an alright thing to do, because it puts me in control of the situation and it's clear about what is and isn't acceptable (ie, I don't mind writing to you twice a year but anything you send here goes in the shredder).  No decision made - I'm aware I keep changing my mind and there's no rush to decide anything, but at the minute I kind of feel like I'd be alright about doing that.  What does keep going through my mind - and this is where her incredible stupidity just baffles me - is how much it would have helped me to have a grandparent who was willing to look after him every now and again or take him out for his tea.  It would have made my life so much easier to have even a little bit of support.  So she could have had him in her life and it would have helped me, too.  But the daft bint has to create all these unnecessary dramas and pointless allegations and cut her own nose off to spite her face.  Dopey mare.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on March 07, 2020, 01:47:09 PM
That's a lot of processing, Tupp.  Good for you.

For me, I'd have trouble making peace with your mum's treatment of your sister. 

Particularly bc your sister is processing that now, sharing her pain..... sharing how she'd feel if you came back into mum's life as the golden child again.  That's very sad, but it's your sister's work to do.

Maybe your writing about it can be part of your next T appointment.  Processing the loss of what could have been with your mum.  Caring, helpful, supportive grandmother to your ds and you.   

Your sister's ongoing pain.

This is big stuff.  It deserves attention and you're doing an amazing job of moving through it.

Soon you'll smile to feel the sun on your face again.  Spring is coming. 

Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 07, 2020, 03:44:38 PM

Particularly bc your sister is processing that now, sharing her pain..... sharing how she'd feel if you came back into mum's life as the golden child again.  That's very sad, but it's your sister's work to do.


It is, but it's a weird one because I didn't want to be the Golden Child and it wasn't actually nice being that.  I only got that role because I conformed, did what she wanted, kept quiet about step dad abusing me and so on.  It was probably as bad for me as it was for my sis, but in a different way, and it feels funny because it probably looked to everyone else like I was in a favourable position.  But I really wasn't.  And I definitely do not, in a million years, want the mad bat anywhere near me (or my son!) now.  So it's one of those funny, entirely theoretical situations that doesn't make any sense, isn't relevant in any real way anymore, but still causes problems.  It's so weird.  I'm just hoping my sis gets a decent T and not one that doesn't get it (and as she's being treated on the NHS the chances of getting a decent one are very slim).  It's funny listening to my sister re-telling the rows because she and my mum really go at it and my sister doesn't hold back, she says it like it is.  I bent over backwards trying to talk to my mum in a way that was non-confrontational, didn't place blame on her, used lots of "I feel" statements and so on.  I think I only blew my stack at her twice.  It's interesting that neither way works with her :)  Lol.  I'm looking forward to the next T appointment.  I feel like the step-dad stuff is stuck in my chest - I literally can feel something sitting there.  So I'm looking forward to getting rid of that and I think it will probably take some other stuff with it as well xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on March 07, 2020, 05:02:17 PM

Particularly bc your sister is processing that now, sharing her pain..... sharing how she'd feel if you came back into mum's life as the golden child again.  That's very sad, but it's your sister's work to do.


It is, but it's a weird one because I didn't want to be the Golden Child and it wasn't actually nice being that.  I only got that role because I conformed, did what she wanted, kept quiet about step dad abusing me and so on.  It was probably as bad for me as it was for my sis, but in a different way, and it feels funny because it probably looked to everyone else like I was in a favourable position.  But I really wasn't. I understand that and it's very frustrating to have your reality viewed so completely upside down by people, who really SHOULD know better, but just don't.
 I think your sister's abusive treatment colors everything for her.  Maybe as she moves through this she'll be able to really SEE the entire FOO, and the truth. Maybe it will be super healing for you both.
 
And I definitely do not, in a million years, want the mad bat anywhere near me (or my son!) now.  So it's one of those funny, entirely theoretical situations that doesn't make any sense, isn't relevant in any real way anymore, but still causes problems.  It's so weird. I think it's your sister's inner child mourning and hoping and struggling with what happened to her.
 
I'm just hoping my sis gets a decent T and not one that doesn't get it (and as she's being treated on the NHS the chances of getting a decent one are very slim).  A trauma informed T.... those are important buzz words, IME.It's funny listening to my sister re-telling the rows because she and my mum really go at it and my sister doesn't hold back, she says it like it is.  I bent over backwards trying to talk to my mum in a way that was non-confrontational, didn't place blame on her, used lots of "I feel" statements and so on.  I think I only blew my stack at her twice.  It's interesting that neither way works with her :) I think your sister has unrealistic expectations for your mum.... to somehow get mum to SEE, understand, do better.  I think sis tries very hard and cares very much what mum thinks. Lol.  I'm looking forward to the next T appointment.  I feel like the step-dad stuffYou is stuck in my chest - I literally can feel something sitting there. I wonder if you can shift it yourself... breathing into the stuck energy..... breathing space around it. Nothing more than that.  Just noticing the way it feels, and giving it attention..... creating space around it.   Give it a number first if you're going to try so you can see if there's a shift. So I'm looking forward to getting rid of that and I think it will probably take some other stuff with it as well xxThe way you've responded with this T and the EMDR I have zero doubt you'll move through this, process it OUT of your body and brain.  When I have time I want to go back and re read about your first sessions!
 Amazing; ) Light

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 08, 2020, 02:03:16 PM
Thanks, Lighter :)  I'm looking forward to getting this big lump of hideousness out of my chest.  I feel like a cat needing to cough up a furball :)  I've been reluctant to try to do too much to shift it on my own because I think it's going to be huge and I'm worried about unleashing it and not being able to process it all the way through by myself.  I've been angrier this week, definitely, and ruminating on stuff more and I've really enjoyed not doing that for a while now.  But the appointment is on Tuesday and I am primed and ready to go.  I've even been able to save up a few jobs to do after the session - I have a spell of time between the appointment and picking son up that feels like a bit of a waste - not enough time to go home, but too much time to just have a coffee.  So I've got a few things I can do in town and even that feels good.

Yes, I think sis and I both experienced trauma in different ways as kids and one of the problems for us, I think, is that I've felt guilty about some aspects of our childhood (with me getting better treatment from mum) and she's felt guilty about the role reversal there when mum and I fell out and sis became her favoured child.  It's just such a fucked up family dynamic that there isn't a way to make sense of it or resolve it and I think that can be difficult to accept and put down.  I feel very protective of my sis, always have, and I know how heartbreaking T will be for her if she continues with it and the rose tinted glasses that we wear to protect ourselves start to come down and you start to see (and feel) the reality of what you went through.  And I will need to watch that and be sure my need to rush in and rescue doesn't surface (I will have to run all my ideas of help past you guys for approval first!  Lol).  But this brings me on to my next point - there will be no letter, of any kind, sent to mum.

I was running it all through my head again today and everything she's sent over the years, everything she's done - it's all about her.  She's never once reached out to try to come to some sort of arrangement.  She's never just asked me directly how he is.  And this letter she's sent with his birthday card - bearing in mind he's 18 and she's still insisting he doesn't have learning disabilities - doesn't focus on him at all, even though it's written to him.  She talks about being there for the birth and the first five years of his life (she's obviously forgotten the birthday card she sent him when he was five in which she complained about the ways I'd messed his birthdays up for her each year, including the day of the actual birth, which didn't meet her expectations either).  She goes on to talk about how she talks to his picture every day, then starts waffling on about photo albums again and how she'll give them to his dad if I don't want them (that's definitely designed to get a rise out of me) and that's pretty much it.  She does say she hopes he's healthy and happy which is ironic given the lengths that she went to to stop anyone helping him when he was small but it just struck me that the normal thing to do would just be to say to him, I know your mum and I don't get along but I'd love to get to know you, here's my number.  But that isn't what she actually wants.  She's trapped in this weird alternative reality with all this stuff that goes on in her head and nowhere else and I feel sorry for her but I just don't want any part of that in my life.

I know whatever I do will be wrong in her eyes.  It's never good enough - no-one is, no-one ever gets it right.  And I'm out of that cycle now.  I made the mistake of thinking she thinks like other people do, and she doesn't.  She's on her own wavelength and I'm staying over here on mine.  Next time we move I'll be even more careful about who I tell and eventually she has to pass away!

Thank you all so much for letting me chew all of this over and get it all out there.  It means a lot to me that you are all there :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on March 08, 2020, 03:07:27 PM
Isn't it nice to know you're processing your childhood and your sis plans to process also.

It's leading to feeling better, and that's all good, IME, (((Tupp))).

Yes yes yes to unsent letters.

Lighter

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on March 08, 2020, 08:00:35 PM
Quote
there will be no letter, of any kind, sent to mum.

WHEW. I was so relieved to read that, Tupp. I was gearing up to write you all the ways I think that could be a step backward, into the sticky web. I imagine that the new contact with Sis, which is meaning a lot to you, is double-edged. And how much care and strength it's going to take to fight off the seductive magnetism of getting back into the situation (again) and somehow, in some way, even just with a letter, unconsciously trying to fix it (again).

So I'm cheering on everything you do to protect your new serenity and continue to learn the new tools and allow that strength and self-care skill to build until self-love is automatic. As you have been doing so very successfully in recent weeks. Just remember, these revelations and new skills are NEW, and worthy of protecting.

It just might be a little early to take a new emotional risk or rock the emotional boat, is what I mean. It was great to read you'd already come to the same conclusion about not sending the letter. Sure needs no justification at ALL. It's very wise, imo.

Just as you couldn't fix your Mum, you can't fix Sis either. You CAN love and care, as long as you can do it without letting yourself yield to that primal pull of re-involvement. That's getting a little more difficult, it sounds like.

Consider not just your time on the phone, but the time and emotional effort it also takes you to process all that's getting brought up during those calls. Count it all, as you measure the impact on you. (Not saying don't talk to Sis. Just saying, evaluate it with dedication, every time. Until the right No's feel effortless, and come out like anything else that's true and sane.)

I hope you'll feel clear and firm and calm about treating your boundaries there like the treasure they are.

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 09, 2020, 03:09:50 AM
Isn't it nice to know you're processing your childhood and your sis plans to process also.

It's leading to feeling better, and that's all good, IME, (((Tupp))).

Yes yes yes to unsent letters.

Lighter

Lol, I am nodding to unsent letters as well, Lighter, and am very glad I'm at a point now where I can work through how I feel without needing to do anything, if that makes sense?  There was a time when I'd have fired off that first letter as a way of relieving the pressure I felt inside.  But I don't get that as strongly now and that makes things easier.  And yes, much processing going on, although I'm quite happy to leave the processing behind for a while now and concentrate on doing a few nice things this week instead :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 09, 2020, 03:17:00 AM
Quote
there will be no letter, of any kind, sent to mum.

WHEW. I was so relieved to read that, Tupp. I was gearing up to write you all the ways I think that could be a step backward, into the sticky web. I imagine that the new contact with Sis, which is meaning a lot to you, is double-edged. And how much care and strength it's going to take to fight off the seductive magnetism of getting back into the situation (again) and somehow, in some way, even just with a letter, unconsciously trying to fix it (again).

So I'm cheering on everything you do to protect your new serenity and continue to learn the new tools and allow that strength and self-care skill to build until self-love is automatic. As you have been doing so very successfully in recent weeks. Just remember, these revelations and new skills are NEW, and worthy of protecting.

It just might be a little early to take a new emotional risk or rock the emotional boat, is what I mean. It was great to read you'd already come to the same conclusion about not sending the letter. Sure needs no justification at ALL. It's very wise, imo.

Just as you couldn't fix your Mum, you can't fix Sis either. You CAN love and care, as long as you can do it without letting yourself yield to that primal pull of re-involvement. That's getting a little more difficult, it sounds like.

Consider not just your time on the phone, but the time and emotional effort it also takes you to process all that's getting brought up during those calls. Count it all, as you measure the impact on you. (Not saying don't talk to Sis. Just saying, evaluate it with dedication, every time. Until the right No's feel effortless, and come out like anything else that's true and sane.)

I hope you'll feel clear and firm and calm about treating your boundaries there like the treasure they are.

Hugs
Hops

Thanks, Hops, yes, I hear ya!  And agree, lol.  A sticky web is exactly the way to describe it.  There is no way to communicate or have anything to do with my mum that doesn't involve entanglement in some way and I'm not going back in to that.  It did hit me last night - and I know I'm a bit late to the party on this one - that my mum has a serious and significant personality disorder and is actually very ill.  And has always been very ill.  I was raised by a woman with serious mental health problems and an aggressive and abusive man.  And I don't know why, but I'd never thought of it in those terms before.  Her reality exists literally only in her mind and nowhere else.  And nothing you do or say changes that for her.  I do remember saying to someone once before that you can't be mentally healthy if you're in a relationship with my mum.  It's just not possible to interact with her and retain your sanity.

And yes, I will be mindful of my time and interactions with Sis.  In some ways I think it's good - the events of the last week have turned my own wheels another notch forward and I've worked out a bit more in my mind, which is good.  But I do need to keep a careful eye on time and energy invested, whichever form it takes, and not let myself give myself a way.  My more recent good mood and energy needs to be invested in myself and son, I think, as it's been so many years since Iv'e had either of those things.  So I will take care with it and I will post what I'm doing on here so you can all step in and haul me back when necessary :)  Lol.

Phew!  Thanks, all, for being here, as always.  Love and appreciate you all so much :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on March 09, 2020, 01:43:47 PM
Hey, friend,
You were ready to come over here and kick M's arse when I was having a rough time with him, so the LEAST I could do is pull you back from a cliff edge if I see you wobbling!

Never fear, we'll all be here.

Big hugs,
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 09, 2020, 04:49:10 PM
Hey, friend,
You were ready to come over here and kick M's arse when I was having a rough time with him, so the LEAST I could do is pull you back from a cliff edge if I see you wobbling!

Never fear, we'll all be here.

Big hugs,
Hops

Lol, M will still be getting an arse kicking if he doesn't get this house business sorted out!  I am far away from the edge of the cliff now and ready to kick my own arse if need be :)  Lol xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 10, 2020, 12:57:34 PM
Well I am just going to update the latest session of awesomness with the EMDR lady before I park myself on the sofa for a nap :)

The day did not start well.  We had to walk home from the cinema last night in the dark and the pouring rain (missed the bus by one minute, next one due an hour later, nowhere warm to wait so tried to get a taxi but everyone else had the same idea so after twenty minutes of trying for a cab we walked.  It's only about half an hour to walk and on a sunny day it's nice, but in the cold and the rain at the end of a long day - not so much).  Anyway, it was still raining this morning and my coat hadn't dried completely from the night before so I was stood at the bus stop in a damp coat, in the wind and the rain - and the bus didn't turn up.  By the time the next one arrived we'd missed our connecting bus so we were late to college (and it was still raining).  I usually pick up a few groceries, catch the bus home, potter around for an hour and a half and then catch the bus back for my appointment, but due to everything being late there was no point going home as I'd have only been in half an hour before needing to go out again.  And if that bus didn't arrive then I'd have to walk back to town, in the rain, and I just didn't want to.  So I was not having the best time by the time I got there :)  Lol

Anyway, I said that I'd been having these physical flashbacks and that I'd like to work through that.  What I like about the sessions is that she doesn't question anything I say.  There's an immediate acceptance - this is what Tupp wants to work on.  We're working on it.  And we just crack on.

She asked me what physical sensations I had right at that moment, in the here and now.  I said a terrible tightness across my chest that spreads up across my shoulders, neck and head and makes me feel like the whole top section is being compressed.  She asked me, on a scale of 1 to 10, how comfortable I felt with what we were going to deal with.  I said 8 - pretty confident we could do it, but slightly concerned that it might be so big we didn't get through it in the session and I had to take it home, unleashed.  And also just a little scared of, once it's gone, what then?  I do think the things that happen in your formative years become part of who you are, and it kind of worries me that you're taking a chunk of yourself out and what might happen then?

So we started with that and as I watched the little light go back and forth I became aware of feeling utterly, utterly terrified and feeling like I was in my bedroom at home and that he was standing outside the door.

We worked with that and I started to get terrible pains in my groin area, like period pain.  I felt as if I couldn't breathe through my nose or mouth and the pain across my shoulders was excrutiating.  We paused again - she varies the pace, some things we work through quite fast, other things we pause, breath, welcome the sensation and so on.  I like the mixture.

I started to get intense pain in my wrists and then my entire left side felt as if it died.  I couldn't feel anything there at all.  That subsided and then I just felt numb.  There was nothing in my head, I couldn't focus on anything, couldn't sense what was going on.  She said she thought it was possible that I'd disassociated during the rape and that was the next part of the memory.  We worked through it and I started to feel like the two side of my body were knitting together (I have always felt like my body is in two distinct halves.  It's very odd, I can even feel it when I do yoga, I have to really concentrate to get both sides to do something at the same time - I have to move my focus from one side to the other to feel it.  It's very odd).  There was a tension in my groin area and I just kind of felt it pop.  And then this relief washed through me and I've just never felt anything like it.

Emotions were coming up as well - I wanted my mum to come and save me, but equally knew she wouldn't because she'd seen him do other things and never did anything.  I do think men like him can sense the kind of mums that won't protect their kids.  It's very scary.  We worked through it.  I felt responsible for the attack, guilty, bewildered.  I felt a need to protect my mum from knowing what had happened.  We had to kind of chase the pain up and down through my body.  At one point my jaw felt like it would shatter, it was so tight, and then it just started to relax.  We chased it round and around and eventually I could only feel pain in two of my teeth.  And then it was gone.

She told me to imagine him outside the door again, and I could see a faint outline of him as he was back then - a huge man, very strong, very physically fit, very intimidating.  But I could only see that man faintly.  In front of him was a very frail, pathetic old man who just kept getting smaller and smaller until he wasn't there at all.  She asked me if he was still there and I said, he is, very faintly, but I feel like if I went out there now and he really was there, I wouldn't give him a second thought.  We worked on that some more.  Then she asked if I still felt responsible for what he did.  I said absolutely not.  She asked if I felt afraid of him and for the first time in 35 years the answer was no.  I genuinely didn't feel scared of him anymore.  I can't even describe how I felt because it was just kind of nothing.  I just felt like I was sitting in a chair, in a room, holding a couple of buzzy things in my hands watching a light go back and forth.  There just wasn't anything else there.

So - we're home.  I'm exhausted and will definitely be having a lazy evening.  But I feel exhausted in a good way and I am once again flabbergasted at what this is doing for me.  It's nap time my lovelies, I will let you know how I sleep! xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on March 10, 2020, 03:52:05 PM
(((((((((((((((((Tupp)))))))))))))))))))

This made me cry.
Out of relief for you. And joy.

You are SUCH a wonderful person. To hear you describe this and the relief....oh my.
I've just watched your jailer unlock your cell and you walk out of it, knowing the jailer for the now-irrelevant person he is.

Happy tears for you, good woman.

Holy Moses.

HUGS,
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on March 10, 2020, 05:19:07 PM
Well I am just going to update the latest session of awesomness with the EMDR lady before I park myself on the sofa for a nap :)

The day did not start well.  We had to walk home from the cinema last night in the dark and the pouring rain (missed the bus by one minute, next one due an hour later, nowhere warm to wait so tried to get a taxi but everyone else had the same idea so after twenty minutes of trying for a cab we walked.  It's only about half an hour to walk and on a sunny day it's nice, but in the cold and the rain at the end of a long day - not so much).  Anyway, it was still raining this morning and my coat hadn't dried completely from the night before so I was stood at the bus stop in a damp coat, in the wind and the rain - and the bus didn't turn up.  By the time the next one arrived we'd missed our connecting bus so we were late to college (and it was still raining).  I usually pick up a few groceries, catch the bus home, potter around for an hour and a half and then catch the bus back for my appointment, (THAT sounds like a nice ritual, Tupp.  I'm sorry you had such a rough night and morning ((((Tupp and son.)))but due to everything being late there was no point going home as I'd have only been in half an hour before needing to go out again.  And if that bus didn't arrive then I'd have to walk back to town, in the rain, and I just didn't want to. Sound's like a very reasonable choice. So I was not having the best time by the time I got there :)  Lol  Well, you can still laugh about it.  There's that. I guess it it makes snuggling into warm blankets feel really really good, huh?

Anyway, I said that I'd been having these physical flashbacks and that I'd like to work through that.  What I like about the sessions is that she doesn't question anything I say.  There's an immediate acceptance - this is what Tupp wants to work on.  We're working on it.  And we just crack on. I'm always mesmerized by your written experience with your T, Tupp. She seems like a really good fit for you, whoo hoo.   

She asked me what physical sensations I had right at that moment, in the here and now.  I said a terrible tightness across my chest that spreads up across my shoulders, neck and head and makes me feel like the whole top section is being compressed.  She asked me, on a scale of 1 to 10, how comfortable I felt with what we were going to deal with.  I said 8 - pretty confident we could do it, but slightly concerned that it might be so big we didn't get through it in the session and I had to take it home, unleashed.  And also just a little scared of, once it's gone, what then?  I do think the things that happen in your formative years become part of who you are, and it kind of worries me that you're taking a chunk of yourself out and what might happen then?  ((Tupp))
 


So we started with that and as I watched the little light go back and forth I became aware of feeling utterly, utterly terrified and feeling like I was in my bedroom at home and that he was standing outside the door.

We worked with that and I started to get terrible pains in my groin area, like period pain.  I felt as if I couldn't breathe through my nose or mouth and the pain across my shoulders was excrutiating.  We paused again - she varies the pace, some things we work through quite fast, other things we pause, breath, welcome the sensation and so on.  I like the mixture.

I started to get intense pain in my wrists and then my entire left side felt as if it died.  I couldn't feel anything there at all.  That subsided and then I just felt numb.  There was nothing in my head, I couldn't focus on anything, couldn't sense what was going on.  She said she thought it was possible that I'd disassociated during the rape and that was the next part of the memory.  We worked through it and I started to feel like the two side of my body were knitting together (I have always felt like my body is in two distinct halves.  It's very odd, I can even feel it when I do yoga, I have to really concentrate to get both sides to do something at the same time - I have to move my focus from one side to the other to feel it.  It's very odd).  There was a tension in my groin area and I just kind of felt it pop.  And then this relief washed through me and I've just never felt anything like it.

Emotions were coming up as well - I wanted my mum to come and save me, but equally knew she wouldn't because she'd seen him do other things and never did anything.  I do think men like him can sense the kind of mums that won't protect their kids.  It's very scary.  We worked through it.  I felt responsible for the attack, guilty, bewildered.  I felt a need to protect my mum from knowing what had happened.  We had to kind of chase the pain up and down through my body.  At one point my jaw felt like it would shatter, it was so tight, and then it just started to relax.  We chased it round and around and eventually I could only feel pain in two of my teeth.  And then it was gone.

She told me to imagine him outside the door again, and I could see a faint outline of him as he was back then - a huge man, very strong, very physically fit, very intimidating.  But I could only see that man faintly.  In front of him was a very frail, pathetic old man who just kept getting smaller and smaller until he wasn't there at all.  She asked me if he was still there and I said, he is, very faintly, but I feel like if I went out there now and he really was there, I wouldn't give him a second thought.  We worked on that some more.  Then she asked if I still felt responsible for what he did.  I said absolutely not.  She asked if I felt afraid of him and for the first time in 35 years the answer was no.  I genuinely didn't feel scared of him anymore.  I can't even describe how I felt because it was just kind of nothing.  I just felt like I was sitting in a chair, in a room, holding a couple of buzzy things in my hands watching a light go back and forth.  There just wasn't anything else there.

So - we're home.  I'm exhausted and will definitely be having a lazy evening.  But I feel exhausted in a good way and I am once again flabbergasted at what this is doing for me. Your bravery and willingness to dig deep is heroic, Tupp. I think you squeeze the absolute optimum out of every appointment.  Thank you so much for sharing. It's nap time my lovelies, I will let you know how I sleep! xx
Hear! Hear!  Memory reconsolidation rocks! Your brain is ready and up for doing the work.   I'm not surprised, I'm just.... so..... happy for you! 

Nap, replenish..... know you're safe, dear, Tupp.  So happy for you: )
 Lighter

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 12, 2020, 09:50:23 AM
Thank you both, for your lovely words and thoughts :)  It's been a slightly odd couple of days.  I haven't felt great - and I think after such a big event that I thought I'd feel incredible.  I had a lot of anger surfacing as well as a lot of sadness and that feeling of what I might have had in my life if I hadn't had to lug that horrible pit of grimness around with me for most of my childhood and my entire adult life.  I felt a bit down about it and wondered if we hadn't actually got rid of it all and if that was just the start of it and I'd now spend weeks feeling numb while we tried to chase it and pin it down and do something with it.

But today I'm wondering if that's it?  It's very hard to put into words but I just don't feel like there's anything in there now other than what needs to be done day to day.  I don't feel particularly reactive to anything.  I'm not over thinking, I don't have any particular emotions washing around in me.  I just kind of feel - normal.  We've just got home and usually I'm thinking about what I have to do - even if it's to relax I feel I have to do it.  There's usually some sort of momentum pushing me on and some sort of balance in my head about whether it's good or bad.  But there's just nothing like that there.  I've fed the cat.  I'm going to watch my detective show and probably have a little nap.  And then just get on with something else.  It feels like my usual compulsion to have to be controlling the situation - even if it's just by actively deciding to do nothing - just isn't there.  So I'll keep any eye on things and see if anything changes but at the minute I'm wondering if he was the tree trunk of madness and if we've felled it? 
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on March 12, 2020, 11:48:08 AM
Stunning.
Absolutely stunning, Tupp.

I'm so happy to read this.
It's amazing and wonderful and gentle and extraordinarily hopeful.

Enjoy normal. Enjoy not surging with adrenaline all day. Enjoy your naps, shows, moments, kitty visits, and peace.

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on March 12, 2020, 11:53:55 PM
Tupp:

How's it going over the pond?

You guys OK?

Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 13, 2020, 03:33:32 AM
Stunning.
Absolutely stunning, Tupp.

I'm so happy to read this.
It's amazing and wonderful and gentle and extraordinarily hopeful.

Enjoy normal. Enjoy not surging with adrenaline all day. Enjoy your naps, shows, moments, kitty visits, and peace.

Hugs
Hops

Thanks, Hopsie :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 13, 2020, 03:58:20 AM
Tupp:

How's it going over the pond?

You guys OK?

Lighter

I am shaking my head at the utter stupidity of the great British public quite honestly, Lighter, and wondering how people get things so badly wrong.

As a nation, we are in the worst possible position to manage an outbreak of anything right now.  Over the last ten years, the Conservatives have systematically underfunded and dismantled our health system, our education system, our social care systems and our welfare benefits - all the things that people need when there is a crisis and their health care problems mean they can't earn a wage.  We have millions of people who don't get sick pay and who can't claim benefits if they don't go in to work - so we have millions who routinely go to work when they have infectious conditions, because if they don't, they can't pay their rent.  And if they can't pay rent, they end up on the street, because we no longer have a temporary or social housing system for people to fall back on.  We have six and a half million unpaid carers, like myself, who provide everything a sick or disabled relative needs and for whom there is no back up system at all.  We have massive staff shortages across all areas of the public sector and many other industries now, because the great British public, having voted three times for all of the cuts and reductions I've mentioned above, also decided they didn't want people coming here from EU countries, so many of the vacancies in industries like health and social care remain unfilled.

Our vulnerable people - those mostly likely to find the virus fatal - are more vulnerable than they would be if their basic needs had been met over the last decade and they hadn't constantly had to fight for health care and enough money to live on.  The endless stories about the 130,000 people who've died as a result of austerity, the million people using foodbanks, the 100% increase in homelessness, 4 million children living in poverty, and so on, have all been dismissed as fake news, or blamed on immigration, or blamed on fecklessness and irresponsibility by those experiencing them.  Just last year, we had a party willing and ready to reverse all of those cuts, give workers back their basic rights, implement a building programme so that people have places to live - and the public voted against it - again.  My mind just boggles.  There have been endless cries of 'We don't need the EU!  We survived the Blitz!".  From people who have stripped the shelves bare in a matter of hours because they find the prospect of washing their arse rather than using toilet paper too much to contemplate.

Son and I will carry on as we always do.  We've not been able to access any kind of useful healthcare for either of us for the last decade or so, so we've had to become adept at using complementary and alternative methods.  We both take supplements daily.  I've ordered in homeopathic remedies for fever and cold and flu symptoms, both of which we've used before, and supplies of elderberry, echinacea and ginger, again all things we use through the winter to keep ourselves topped up.  We are used to self isolating, as we've been doing it for years already.  We don't have the space or the money to buy in bulk, so we'll continue to shop as and when we need to, and if we can't get what we want, we will buy an alternative and use that instead - which is what we always do anyway!  I find myself wishing very hard that the Western world reacted this strongly to people in other countries dying from drinking dirty water or drowning when the dingies they are fleeing war zones in capsize.  Instead they seem to be blamed for bringing it on themselves, which I find baffling.  But there we are.

Sorry to be so negative.  But here it seems to be business as usual - everyone out for themselves, everyone expecting other people to go without so they don't have to and no-one seeming to be willing to address the fundamental issues that underpin every crisis that occurs.  I find it all very depressing (and am reading pre 'The Handmaid's Tale' Margaret Atwood stuff and listening to Ecstatic Dance music by way of therapy) :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on March 13, 2020, 10:55:54 AM
There you are,  Tupp.

I'm frustrated too, but happy you and ds are doing OK. 

And.... do you see yourself as being negative?  How else were you going to respond?  Is there a positive way to speak that kind of truth?  Please don't apologize.  Not here.

I'm glad you ordered in cold meds and are being proactive with staying healthy, as is your way.  Have schools closed there yet?

Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 13, 2020, 01:48:34 PM
There you are,  Tupp.

I'm frustrated too, but happy you and ds are doing OK. 

And.... do you see yourself as being negative?  How else were you going to respond?  Is there a positive way to speak that kind of truth?  Please don't apologize.  Not here.

I'm glad you ordered in cold meds and are being proactive with staying healthy, as is your way.  Have schools closed there yet?

Lighter

Thanks for being so understanding, Lighter  (((((((((((((((((((((((Lighter))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

No closures yet - apparently our dear PM spoke on the matter yesterday and informed the nation that we can all expect to lose family members from this, so that was nice.  Presumably he's now gone back to nobbing the woman twenty years his junior he left his wife for and holidaying in the Caribbean.  No, I didn't vote for him :)

I am keeping an eye and a level head - cancer kills 450 people a day in this country so is a much bigger risk than Corona yet attracts nothing like the attention this is.  I am also mindful that most people recover from it - I'm aware it kills at a higher rate than flu but again, realistically, son and I are at far more risk from cancer than we are from this so I'm taking precautions but not going overboard.  There aren't any known cases local to us yet - a few in the same county but not our immediate area.  If more cases are reported here or there is any sign of a sniffle from myself or son I'll have him out of college straight away - I won't be waiting for them to tell me they're closing if I feel the risk is increasing.  I'm still of the view that it's a pain in the arse for him to go anyway so will be delighted for an excuse not to take him, but equally don't want to stop him going unnecessarily.  He only has two weeks until Easter holiday and they are closed for almost three weeks anyway.  The unit he is in is largely separate from the rest of the campus and he eats in his form room rather than the dinner hall, so his contact level is with a lower number of students than most of the rest of the college.   I do feel very strongly that stress and panic weaken the immune system so we are doing neither :)  Today has been quite a long and boring day - I've been resting up so should feel more energised tomorrow but I get quite bored so hopefully tomorrow will be a bit more interesting :)  Hope you are all doing okay over there xx xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on March 13, 2020, 03:33:23 PM
Tupp, that was a fantastic, cogent summary of what's going on in the UK.
Thank you.

In so many ways it's extremely similar to our issues in the US. Extremely.

Your calm is a comfort.

Over here, I think the culture is mega-drama, all the way.

People using the most amped-up language possible, shrieking alarms (as opposed to facts) on social media, poking fear and stirring it.

None of that helps. Facts do. Perspective helps. Calm RULES.

It was a pleasure to read your post, you smart person.

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 14, 2020, 05:34:49 AM
((((((((((((((((Hops))))))))))))))))))))))))))))  I am hearing rumbles from friends who work in healthcare that plans are being made to prioritise treatment for those with the highest chance of survival.  So the sick, elderly and disabled will be at the back of the queue.  Our hospitals are unable to cope with normal, every day illnesses and accidents.  They've got no chance of coping with this.  Public gatherings have been banned but there are apparently no plans to close schools, because so many people depend on them for childcare.  So we have a situation where people who can't afford to take time off work are going in, either unwell themselves or around people who may be unwell, and then taking those germs home to pass on to their families, whose kids then go in to schools where many kids are already struggling because their disability needs aren't met, their parents don't earn enough to feed them well, they're just getting through another winter without the heating on, and so on.  I would like to think this might be the wake up call that the West needs but I fear it will just lead to more scaremongering and everything being blamed on immigration and people on low incomes, again.  Anyway - I've decided that son can go in to college on Tuesday and then I'll keep him off until the end of the Easter holidays, so we'll have a month at home.  I'm only sending him in Tuesday because I have my T appointment on Tuesday.  Son can wait in the reception area but there are a lot of people in and out (it's a big building with lots of different suites and offices so there are lots of different staff, delivery people and so on) plus there are three toilets there and a small kitchen area.  So I think the potential for germs is probably higher there than it is at college, where at least they're all being told endlessly to wash their hands.  I did think about cancelling the T appointment but ................ I'm struggling.  All the unpleasant, angst ridden, weird, underlying stuff has gone - quite miraculously.  I do feel like a different person.  But that's part of the problem, and I know this will sound weird, but I feel like old Tupp was a front, or a caricature, just someone who was there to perform some sort of function as inner Tupp struggled to keep on keeping on.  That Tupp has gone - just evaporated completely and so quickly.  But now I feel like an alien because the life I have is the one she created, out of necessity.  It feels completely wrong to me.  I don't feel like I'm living where I should be, how I should be.  I feel like I just woke up and I'm in one of those sci fi movies where someone's been asleep for a century and when they wake up the whole world's changed.  And there's very little I can do about it in practical terms just now!  I feel very angry and resentful, as well as very, very tired.  So I would like to see the T and see if we can clear a bit of that.  But then I think that might be it on the T front, I think we might have worked through what we needed to and it might just be down to newly alive Tupp to take it from here!  So perhaps in a way the timing of all this is a blessing - it might be that a month at home now, disconnected from the outside for a bit, might be the right time to delve inward and figure some things out and know which direction to move in next.  It's kind of weird and scary but I think it's good as well?  Even though it doesn't feel all that good at the minute.  Thank you all for being there, I would not be able to blather on like this to anyone else! xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on March 14, 2020, 01:39:56 PM
Tupp: 

I nodded through your entire post.  Particularly the wake-up call to the West... identifying causes and addressing them instead of finger-pointing and fear-mongering so everyone loses.

You've done so much work with your T.  I found myself thinking I should've taken a break Jan and Feb from T.  A break  sounds timely to me too.

Our medical system will be swamped too.  We don't have the ability to deal with the outbreak either.... not enough ventilators or beds... IC or anything. 

My friend and her husband have been released from the hospital... but have to quarantine themselves in their home for 2 weeks: 0

People aren't going to be able to just stay home, IME. 

Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 14, 2020, 03:43:57 PM
Tupp: 

I nodded through your entire post.  Particularly the wake-up call to the West... identifying causes and addressing them instead of finger-pointing and fear-mongering so everyone loses.

You've done so much work with your T.  I found myself thinking I should've taken a break Jan and Feb from T.  A break  sounds timely to me too.

Our medical system will be swamped too.  We don't have the ability to deal with the outbreak either.... not enough ventilators or beds... IC or anything. 

My friend and her husband have been released from the hospital... but have to quarantine themselves in their home for 2 weeks: 0

People aren't going to be able to just stay home, IME. 

Lighter

I'm glad your friend and hubby are home now, Lighter, but you're right, a lot of people won't be able to stay home and a lot will just refuse to.  Just when we were out today, I used the toilet at the bus station - and there was no hand soap at the sinks.  Now how many people will use those loos over the course of the day and not be able to wash their hands?  You can't buy hand sanitiser anywhere now, everywhere's sold out, and how many people carry soap in their bags?  We went to a cafe for lunch and the hand dryer wasn't working in the toilet there, so again, how many people are just kind of smearing wet germs around the handles as they leave the room?  And then we heard two people on the bus talking about how they weren't going to stay at home under any circumstances, no matter what anyone said, and that kind of belligerence is common place.  Lots of people saying, "it's only going to affect the elderly", as if it's alright if we just kill a load off because people can't be bothered to wash their hands or stay home and watch box sets for a fortnight.  My head is shaking constantly x
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on March 14, 2020, 04:18:43 PM
I guess it's time to start carrying little bottles of handsoap in our bags, Tupp.  And maybe our own hand drying towels. Certainly we need to stop touching doorknobs and faucets with our hands.  They're germy when CV19 isn't going around.

I updated friend's story on the other thread. 

Wanna hear a weird story?  I got gas today in the truck, which I haven't driven in a while so.... just to start and keep fluids moving.  When I got back IN the truck the ding ding ding would not shut up. I mean...  I checked EVERYTHING and still... just on and on and on. 

I turned off engine.  Started it again and it just kept on.  About the time I considered finding the fuse for that I just stopped and breathed for a minute.  Hmmm... what if?

What if I'm supposed to use sanitizer and what if I had some in the truth?  I went through the console and there was an old bottle... I picked it up.  DING DING DING...

I thought... what if I open this lid and the DING stops?

I just looked at the bottle for a bit....

then opened it and what do you think happened the very second I did?

Yup. 

The DING stopped. 

That sent me sanitizing everything I'd touched, steering wheel... keys, etc.   

Prolly just a coincidence.

::nodding::.



Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on March 14, 2020, 10:06:07 PM
Staying home is a tough call, I know. (In Italy we'd be singing from our balconies.)

Tupp, if you can at least get some quantity of rice and dried beans, you'll have most of the nutrition and protein that would keep you going. Micronutrients and the lovely things we get from fruit and veggies...might depend on gardens; cheap cans, and early greens. Things grown in pots or cardboard boxes cut down. Some people will go without produce for a while. It's not right.

One thing, apart from age and medical vulnerabilities, that helped me decide earlier than my friends to just stay home, is a big fact many people seem to overlook, imo:

People who are carrying it but not yet sick are shedding virus in heavy quantities...much more than with ordinary flus. So relying on visible/audible symptoms to avoid exposure to others doesn't help. Just avoiding everyone you can is the thing.

We can't "feel" when someone else is a carrier or whether we may already be carrying it ourselves. We can't "see" this threat. We can't outwit it, we can only out-wait it.

That is both why people scared and panicking, and also why the numbers may surge.

I trusted facts from experts (about how very contagious it is, and how carriers may be symptom-free for weeks); and that was enough. It took some time to gather what supplies I could and it is an absolutely unfair class privilege (retired but with social security and no rent/mortgage)...that I was able to gather in enough.

For several days as I bowed out of meetings, etc., people would push back with why they're not "giving in" or "but nobody is sick yet" or "don't over-react" or whatever...I wondered if I'd reacted too sharply too soon. Now I don't think so. One guy who was being macho about it wrote me and said "Sorry I was being so stubborn, we need to cancel for the foreseeable future." Others decided to move a meeting I no longer felt comfortable hosting to another place. Eight were ready to go. Over a week it dwindled to three, then on the day of, they cancelled. An ELDER volunteer organization  decided at nearly the last minute to cancel a meeting a lot of elders would have attended. I cautioned kindly, but everyone was still in some level of denial or postponing action.

In each of those instances I had questioned whether we should be meeting at all several days before others decided the same. I don't think I'm clever but all the experts, scary as the facts are, left a clear decision. It was the same for M. It was like a switch flipped for each of us.

I think it's best NOT to go out more than absolutely necessary. When we must, use all the practices they talk about. That's SIX feet apart for social distancing, not three!

To me there may be a bright side is that amid the fear and stress, I do think people are now taking it very seriously. Hopefully enough have that we'll flatten the curve and soften the surge. I'm also moved by the ways people are helping each other, checking on elderly shut-ins, and such.

Hugs and health,
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 15, 2020, 01:53:22 AM
(((((((((((((((((((Hops))))))))))))))))))

We're good to stay in, we have to stay home a lot anyway and we do go out, it is generally to do something son enjoys or just to fetch groceries.  We'll be fine to hunker down for a few weeks (or longer) and I'm looking at it as a month long sabbatical - spring clean the house, do yoga every day, not have to deal with external stress, funnily enough.  Foodwise, we're okay - I'm an expert at cobbling together meals out of bits and pieces and son would be happy with omlette and roast potatoes every day so as long as we can still get both of those, we'll be fine.  Funnily enough we are fortunate that son's eating habits are so restricted, because the various dairy free things he has aren't things people usually eat so we can get those easily enough.

And yes, people.  The world over, people refuse to see what's going on under their noses and just won't take some time to read, think and digest.  There seems to be an attitude here of "If I buy enough I'll be safe" - which of course means other people can't buy anything.  The food banks are empty, which means we have a million people reliant on them who now don't have money to buy food and who can't get it any other way - there's not even enough in the shops to steal it.  Our PM apparently wants 60% of the population to catch it, so that we can acquire herd immunity - it's cheaper than closing down shops and businesses and will be a greater risk for the elderly and ill anyway, so they can kill off a few more that way which will please them all greatly.  Politicians, of course, don't include themselves in the population, they'll be holed up in their country retreats with staff venturing out to get food for them.  Both the hypocrisy and the stupidity anger me.  I've a friend who's a paramedic and as soon as this broke, she said it was going to be really bad and they should have grounded all flights immediately to contain it.  And yet yesterday, I was reading of people who were still flying off on holiday!  As if nothing's happening.

My supplies have arrived, though - elderberry, echinacea and ginger, along with our usual supplements, and a couple of homeopathic remedies should we need them.  We always keep a stock of painkillers in and I ordered his epilepsy meds early so we should be able to pick those up next week and not have to think about that for a while.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 15, 2020, 01:55:54 AM
I guess it's time to start carrying little bottles of handsoap in our bags, Tupp.  And maybe our own hand drying towels. Certainly we need to stop touching doorknobs and faucets with our hands.  They're germy when CV19 isn't going around.

I updated friend's story on the other thread. 

Wanna hear a weird story?  I got gas today in the truck, which I haven't driven in a while so.... just to start and keep fluids moving.  When I got back IN the truck the ding ding ding would not shut up. I mean...  I checked EVERYTHING and still... just on and on and on. 

I turned off engine.  Started it again and it just kept on.  About the time I considered finding the fuse for that I just stopped and breathed for a minute.  Hmmm... what if?

What if I'm supposed to use sanitizer and what if I had some in the truth?  I went through the console and there was an old bottle... I picked it up.  DING DING DING...

I thought... what if I open this lid and the DING stops?

I just looked at the bottle for a bit....

then opened it and what do you think happened the very second I did?

Yup. 

The DING stopped. 

That sent me sanitizing everything I'd touched, steering wheel... keys, etc.   

Prolly just a coincidence.

::nodding::.



Lighter

Lighter you've turned into some sort of sanitiser detector!  This could be your path to fortune now!  Lol.  That is such a weird thing to happen.  You'll have to keep an eye on dinging events now!  And see what else you're being directed to :)  And yes, soap in bags.  Moisturiser, too.  My hands are red raw xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 15, 2020, 04:41:00 AM
I've just had one of those, "bloody hell, why didn't I just see this years ago?" moments.

The government are talking about forcing the 0ver 70s to self isolate for four months now, and giving police new powers to arrest people wh don't comply.  Unenforceable if you ask me and could have been prevented if they'd taken action sooner but anyway, I will be sending my mum a list of herbal or natural supplements she can take to try to keep herself healthy and a hand sanitiser recipe in case she can't buy any in.  I don't want contact with her but I can't just pretend this isn't happening and do nothing at all knowing she'll have to stay inside until July.  She'll probably just sit indoors and get drunk but regardless, I don't feel I can live with myself if this is the thing that finishes her off and I didn't even send a note to say "buy some elderberry syrup".

But of course it did get me thinking about everything that's gone on before and everything she's said and done, and I started whirring all my usual justifications for my decisions and my behaviour over the years, still feeling on some level that I need to convince her that I was right and she was wrong.  And it just suddenly hit me and it's so obvious - it doesn't matter.  He's my son, not hers, and what she thinks about what I do is irrelevant - it's simply none of her business and never has been.  She's entitled to her opinion but that's all it is - an opinion.  She's no right to try and inflict it on anyone and I'm definitely not in a position to have to keep defending myself from what she thinks - and I never have been.  Why I've never seen it so clearly and simply before I don't know, but it suddenly all makes so much more sense and I find I'm wishing I'd just said "it's none of your business" fifteen years ago.  I'd have saved myself an awful lot of mental gymnastics.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on March 15, 2020, 02:41:28 PM
Is there a good chance your mum has neighbors or nearby friends and is having the same conversations everyone is about how to keep safe?

I know you're yearning for contact and torn about it, but consider that you don't have to be the one responsible for conveying the info to her.

Only you can decide, but I'd just hate for sudden contact with her to set you back when you've worked SO hard for your tranquility. One of the dangers of cabin fever would be rumination on the past. (My D has crossed my mind a lot lately, but I'm sticking to the silence as I know she always has people in her life. And if she is deteriorated in some way she's beyond my capacity to help her regardless. If I got the virus and were deteriorating myself, I'd leave a voicemail goodbye. But unless that's happening, I'll leave it be.)

But you know best what you can handle. Just sit with the impulse a bit first, is all I mean. That's part of taking care of yourself. Then you'll know whether to yield to it.

Big hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 15, 2020, 04:30:00 PM
Is there a good chance your mum has neighbors or nearby friends and is having the same conversations everyone is about how to keep safe?

I know you're yearning for contact and torn about it, but consider that you don't have to be the one responsible for conveying the info to her.

Only you can decide, but I'd just hate for sudden contact with her to set you back when you've worked SO hard for your tranquility. One of the dangers of cabin fever would be rumination on the past. (My D has crossed my mind a lot lately, but I'm sticking to the silence as I know she always has people in her life. And if she is deteriorated in some way she's beyond my capacity to help her regardless. If I got the virus and were deteriorating myself, I'd leave a voicemail goodbye. But unless that's happening, I'll leave it be.)

But you know best what you can handle. Just sit with the impulse a bit first, is all I mean. That's part of taking care of yourself. Then you'll know whether to yield to it.

Big hugs
Hops

Thanks, Hops  (((((((((Hops)))))))  I've posted it this evening, it's just a list of things that can help with boosting the immune system - elderberry, echinacea, that sort of thing, with a suggestion that she order everything online rather than going out to get it and to call the homeopath she used to see so that he can send her something through the post, if need be.  She is universally loathed in their area and the only people in her life now are generally other alcoholics.  I don't think for one second she'll do anything proactive about it, quite honestly - probably more likely to just drink herself stupid day and night if she's not going out anywhere.  But I can't just not do nothing at all.  The government have made it quite clear that the elderly will be dealing with this on their own - they're expected to self isolate for four months and there are nowhere near enough hospital beds or ventilators for even a fraction of the number that may become ill.  So they will be prioritising those most likely to survive, which means the elderly and disabled will be at the back of the queue.  Oddly enough I don't feel anything now - I just posted it and that's it.  There's really nothing she can do that she hasn't already done a thousand times.  She just feels like an odd old woman that I used to know.  But I just knew I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I didn't just send the information to her, even if she does ignore it.

It was funny being out this evening - very few people around and those that are are cleaning and wiping everything in sight.  Home again now and looking forward to an early night.  Thank you for caring, Hops, I do appreciate the advice and I haven't ignored it, I'm aware I might be wishing I hadn't done it before long - but I just couldn't not even acknowledge how serious this is and at least suggest she makes an effort (even though I doubt she will).  I'm considering it my good deed for the day - put it this way - no-one local to her will be offering to get her food shopping for her, that's for sure.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 16, 2020, 02:41:45 AM
And PS - I am very much hoping there will be no need for you to be leaving voicemails for your D.  Keep washing those hands! xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on March 16, 2020, 12:00:01 PM
Thanks, ((((((Tupp)))))).

I probably should be washing my hands more but I haven't been out much for a week (my last contact was Wednesday for a quick dr. appt--no physical contact with anyone there nor in fact did I see anyone else--and she disinfects everything between clients, and has a sign requiring people to go wash hands before entering her office). Self-isolation otherwise had begun Monday evening. Since then, nobody in my house, no touching, etc.--social distancing.

I did get a lovely dinner from a neighbor who is not quite as vigorous about self isolation as I am. It's tricky; she handed it to me in a plastic bag, so best I could do was discard the bag and wash hands after pouring the stew out of her container into my own bowl and putting her container in the dishwasher. Awkward. But I think okay.

She and I may take some walks together but I'm not sure she'll be comfortable sticking to six feet apart. I took a walk with Pooch yesterday evening and though our street is usually full of walkers, I only saw one young couple with a stroller. Called to them (across the street), how are you enjoying your quarantine? And they said fine, but it's only been one day! M and I are on the phone and email each day to catch up; so far, he's having an actually happy time, working on his book with no distractions.

This neighborhood is pretty good; caring people posting offers on a neighborhood website to fetch food or Rx, call and offer listening or just comfort if anyone's feeling isolated. We just had our first confirmed case reported this morning in the city.

I think it'll come here slowly and in general, we MIGHT get off easy. It's a very educated population who take science seriously and events have been cancelled right and left. I worry about the hospital if it takes off too fast, but worry is useless.

We'll see how isolation affects folks over time. I'm stunned by the UK recommendation that older people self-isolate for four months. That's wise but astonishing. It'll be so hard for many to do. I hope the good character of most people comes out in this.

Hugs,
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 16, 2020, 01:32:57 PM
Thanks, ((((((Tupp)))))).

I probably should be washing my hands more but I haven't been out much for a week (my last contact was Wednesday for a quick dr. appt--no physical contact with anyone there nor in fact did I see anyone else--and she disinfects everything between clients, and has a sign requiring people to go wash hands before entering her office). Self-isolation otherwise had begun Monday evening. Since then, nobody in my house, no touching, etc.--social distancing.

I did get a lovely dinner from a neighbor who is not quite as vigorous about self isolation as I am. It's tricky; she handed it to me in a plastic bag, so best I could do was discard the bag and wash hands after pouring the stew out of her container into my own bowl and putting her container in the dishwasher. Awkward. But I think okay.

She and I may take some walks together but I'm not sure she'll be comfortable sticking to six feet apart. I took a walk with Pooch yesterday evening and though our street is usually full of walkers, I only saw one young couple with a stroller. Called to them (across the street), how are you enjoying your quarantine? And they said fine, but it's only been one day! M and I are on the phone and email each day to catch up; so far, he's having an actually happy time, working on his book with no distractions.

This neighborhood is pretty good; caring people posting offers on a neighborhood website to fetch food or Rx, call and offer listening or just comfort if anyone's feeling isolated. We just had our first confirmed case reported this morning in the city.

I think it'll come here slowly and in general, we MIGHT get off easy. It's a very educated population who take science seriously and events have been cancelled right and left. I worry about the hospital if it takes off too fast, but worry is useless.

We'll see how isolation affects folks over time. I'm stunned by the UK recommendation that older people self-isolate for four months. That's wise but astonishing. It'll be so hard for many to do. I hope the good character of most people comes out in this.

Hugs,
Hops

Four months isolation is completely unattainable, Hopsie, they're deranged and making the problems worse by refusing to take any decisive action in any area.  People of that age group have animals that need looking after - dogs, horses, livestock etc.  Many older people are carers for an unwell partner or other relative, some are providing childcare for their grandchildren!  Plenty have regular doctor and hospital appointments; there's no way we can start having doctors make house calls instead of having people go to the surgery, there just aren't enough of them.  Lots of older people don't use the internet so can't order in food shopping and of those who can, many live alone and are on low incomes and can't order enough in one go for the supermarkets to deliver (minimum order settings).  Lots of people that age group are volunteers and many of the services for disabled people only run because of the volunteers!  It's completely unworkable.  Johnson is an idiot.  They've already got cases identified now in care homes and once it gets in there it spreads like wildfire.  I think it's going to be very grim for a lot of people.

I tried to do my normal online shop this morning for heavy items and the delivery slots can be booked online up until April 6th.  There's not a single slot available.  I can load son's wheelchair up to get things home and I did bump into someone this morning who's volunteering her husband to collect groceries for people at the weekends if they can't get out (I don't know if her husband knows!  Lol).  We've got three things booked this week that I'm going to go to, two are healthcare related and if we all get shut down we won't be getting to anything like that for a while so I didn't want to cancel.  But other than that we'll only be going out for food shopping or fresh air walks away from people.  Son is okay about it; he doesn't like missing out on his weekly cinema trips but I'll pay for the movie channel for a month or so instead and he can have that.  It's very weird, I read stuff online and it's like the apocalypse has already started and then you go outside and everything's normal.  But that's the problem, isn't it, you can't see who's infected already.  The lady I bumped into this morning was telling me that someone she knows got back from Italy and was told to take two weeks off work, which she has.  But because she feels fine, she's still going out - shopping, to the gym, meeting friends for coffee.  So she could be passing it to goodness only knows how many.  That's a worry.

I'm glad you're taking precautions and keeping indoors as much as possible.  Really as many people as possible need to stay inside to stop it spreading, or at least make it easy to track.  But it seems to be more or less business as usual here, which is madness.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on March 16, 2020, 03:21:31 PM
Wowsers, Tupp... that woman going out, shopping, having coffee... WORKING OUT.   That's just nuts bc she's supposed to be self-isolating, isn't she?  THIS is one of the main things I see extending the outbreak.  The healthy ones with the virus running around touching gas pumps, door handles, soap dispensers and grocery carts.  OMG.

I'm glad you have someone willing to go out and gather supplies for you. 

It feels like we'll help take care of each other, generally.

Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 16, 2020, 04:23:35 PM
Exactly, Lighter.  I think the problem is a lot of people are taking the attitude of it being alright to get it - which for a lot of people it is, they can have it, be ill for a little while and then be okay again (like so many other illnesses).  But there are a lot for whom getting it would be catastrophic - either because they're more likely to die from it, or because they can't take time off work when they're ill because they don't get paid, or because they're like me and care for someone who is completely dependent on them, or for people who work in care, nursing and just so many jobs that people are really dependent on.  We're ten thousand nurses short because of Brexit as it is, what happens if the ones we already have get sick?  They want the schools kept open because it provides childcare for working parents; what happens when the teachers get sick?  When one child infects a whole class, who then all go home and pass on to elderly grandparents, disabled relatives, etc, etc.  That's really the crux of it, I think - plenty of people will have this and be fine but an awful lot won't and with the situation as it is at the minute so many being unwell is going to be a huge problem, even if most of them recover.  It's very very troubling xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on March 16, 2020, 05:19:32 PM
I see it as you see it, Tupp.

Class.

It's still about privilege, power, money and class.

And it shouldn't be.

But it is.

Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 17, 2020, 05:16:19 AM
I see it as you see it, Tupp.

Class.

It's still about privilege, power, money and class.

And it shouldn't be.

But it is.

Hops

Very true, Hops, and what upsets me the most in the UK is that many of the people who suffer the most are the ones who vote for this.  They've been convinced (by the billionaire owned media and the shite television that goes out over here) that it's the immigrants, the disabled and the single parents that have caused all the problems.  The billions given away to corporates each year and the vast sums of personal wealth stashed in tax havens just pass them by.  So frustrating.

Seeing T today.  Probably last session, I think.  Not sure that there's any more buried in there now xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on March 17, 2020, 12:03:37 PM
Over here, they just expanded Medicare coverage to include telemedicine.
So if you are seeing a T, you can do it with Skype, FaceTime, etc.

I'm glad about this. Hate tech and don't enjoy video meetings generally,
but the T sessions should work okay this way.

Is that possible for you, Tupp? Or something similar?

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 17, 2020, 01:45:58 PM
Over here, they just expanded Medicare coverage to include telemedicine.
So if you are seeing a T, you can do it with Skype, FaceTime, etc.

I'm glad about this. Hate tech and don't enjoy video meetings generally,
but the T sessions should work okay this way.

Is that possible for you, Tupp? Or something similar?

hugs
Hops

T is over, Hops :)  I felt today would be the last session; I didn't really feel I had any more deeply buried stuff to unearth.  We talked about last week and how I felt that the rape was the tree trunk of everything else, and how weird I've felt since because I feel like I've woken up into someone else's life, as well as how much I hate living here and how nothing I thought would happen has happened and how lots of things I didn't dream would happen have (not good things, either!).

So we basically worked through that.  She gave me my list of negative events and people that I'd written down and we went through those to see if anything raised a reaction.  I felt like I was reading someone else's life story, it just doesn't feel like any of that stuff happened to me now.  The only thing that raised a blip was friends abandoning me, and I think that's partly been triggered by the current situation, where we're dealing with, at best, a lot of inconvenience and additional difficult and, at worst, an acute healthcare situation, and no-one's bothered to phone to ask if we're okay.  So we worked through that as well and it all just felt easy.  Nothing felt huge or difficult to deal with and each thing that came up just sort of evaporated away and just isn't there now.  We did deep breathing; some pain came up in my left hip so we chased that off after thanking it for letting us know it was there and then it was the end of the session.  She asked me if I felt I  needed to work on anything else or did I feel that I'd dealt with that particular story?  And I do, I feel like all the past stuff is just done now and I'm ready to focus on changing our current situation, which is just ridiculous and really annoying me :)  So that was pretty much it, I can go back if I feel a need to at any time but for now we are done and I really feel like we're done.  When I've finished therapy before it's usually been a bit of a car crash ending.  One therapist retired, one felt she couldn't do any more for me, one I did really like but we moved and we were too far away to keep seeing her and the others all just annoyed me at some point so I stopped going.  But this really does feel like it's dealt with the situation - but also feels like something I can just use again in the future if I need to.  I do feel tired and a bit aimless - I'm not really sure where we got from here - but I also feel like a good night's sleep will sort that out and I feel like I'll get one tonight!

In Corona news - the GP is taking it very seriously.  They had someone on the door dealing with non appointment issues (prescriptions, letters to be dropped off and collected, that sort of thing) so no-one is going in unnecessarily.  They've got one lady booking in (you normally do it yourself on a self service machine but she's doing it so no-one else touches it).  People are being directed straight to the toilets to wash their hands and the doors in the building are all propped open so no-one has to touch them.  Good to see them taking it seriously because I was talking to a lady on the bus today who's been told to stay at home in case her cold is Corona but she's bored so thought she'd get the bus into town to get some milk.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on March 17, 2020, 02:55:02 PM
Lordy, the lady on the bus..... is.... a normal lady who doesn't want to have the virus, or be alone if she does ,or  have stay at home alone thinking about in any case.  I guess that's fairly typical behavior and why things go downhill so fast with the contagion.  We just don't want to sit with that kind of fear.  We're creatures of habit.  I hope you weren't too close to her, Tupp.

I trust you're making the best decision about T right now.  Taking a break, letting things settle.... living without reactivity for a while...  deciding if you want to go back or not...  is a good choice, IMO.  Well done.  It's not easy to attack that kind of work and roll through it like you did. I'm not at all surprised you did it. You're our Tupp: )

Ligther



Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on March 17, 2020, 06:33:39 PM
SIX feet apart not "next to."

Even if it's embarrassing.

I've found here that people are benevolent about when you cross to the other side of a path or stand back six feet. There are understanding smiles. Even if there aren't, it's right to do this and those who do it are helping everyone else, whether they recognize it or not.

I'm happy for you, Tupp. I don't think it matters to draw a thick firm line under "finishing" with T...the lovely thing is you've done amazing work and it's worked amazingly for you, and you have decided you will keep that door open for yourself and walk back through it without shame if more things come up that need that kind of brilliant attention.

With that assurance, Pope Hops gives you her blessing to take a break!

I'm really glad you're seeing the GP kick into gear. Things must feel less inhumane with those steps going on. Screw the politicians. It's the actual bureaucrats who are caring about us now!

Big hugs,
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on March 18, 2020, 04:07:05 PM
Hops:

It's a fact...  we have to be careful and not veer from it.

You're right.

Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 19, 2020, 09:17:12 AM
SIX feet apart not "next to."

Even if it's embarrassing.

I've found here that people are benevolent about when you cross to the other side of a path or stand back six feet. There are understanding smiles. Even if there aren't, it's right to do this and those who do it are helping everyone else, whether they recognize it or not.

I'm happy for you, Tupp. I don't think it matters to draw a thick firm line under "finishing" with T...the lovely thing is you've done amazing work and it's worked amazingly for you, and you have decided you will keep that door open for yourself and walk back through it without shame if more things come up that need that kind of brilliant attention.

With that assurance, Pope Hops gives you her blessing to take a break!

I'm really glad you're seeing the GP kick into gear. Things must feel less inhumane with those steps going on. Screw the politicians. It's the actual bureaucrats who are caring about us now!

Big hugs,
Hops

Thank you, Pope Hops!  Lol, yes the GP was both a reassurance and a wake up call.  They are doing scripts for three months's supply at a time when they usually only give you the bare minimum to avoid waste and overdose etc.  So they are clearly bracing themselves for something.  Many public places have closed down now and they are finally closing the schools.  A friend has set up an online group for parents who have suddenly found themselves to be home educating and I have offered to help out with that.  Local groups are springing up to help people with food and fetching prescriptions etc.  Musicians are doing online gigs, people are posting all sorts of online resources for activities and passtimes for people who are stuck indoors.  Some of the supermarkets are opening up for disabled and elderly only first thing in the morning so that more vulnerable people can get in first and apparently they're setting up priority delivery services (all a bit late in the day, in my opinion, but there we are).  Personally, the absence of stress is having a profound effect on both myself and son already.  The difference when not having to bumble about outside managing all the environmental stresses and worrying about how far son is walking, noise levels, not know what he did or didn't do at college and so on.  I am catching up on all sorts of jobs and getting time to sit and rest in between (novel experience for me!) and he is upstairs writing an adventure novel :)

With regards to my personal/T related stuff, I am realising how much I have said nothing about so many things over the years.  It's been safer to keep my head down and my thoughts to myself and keep quiet.  But because of that I've not attracted the right sort of people into my life.  I have lots of good friends on the internet, because on these anonymized forums I can be honest.  But in real life I cover up and say what suits the other person and that's what's got me surrounded by people I don't connect well with, I think.  So I'm using this at home period to really try to reconnect with myself and build myself up again, physically and emotionally.  And hopefully that will mean that I can start as I mean to go on afterwards and things will change :)
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 19, 2020, 03:38:38 PM
I've been thinking today about how unhappy I've been here and how much I'd been wishing I hadn't moved, and so on.  Two things occurred to me - the EMDR lady has wiped out forty years of trauma in eight weeks.  And the house we're in at the moment is a ten minute walk from two corner shops, a farm shop and a supermarket.  With the situation at the moment that really is a good position to be in.  Where we lived before there was one shop in the village, and it would have been emptied in a matter of minutes.  We'd be really struggling to get food if we were self isolating there.  So in a very bizarre and roundabout way this is actually the best place I could be in right now in this bizarre and unpleasant situation.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on March 19, 2020, 03:51:24 PM
You've inspired a new thread, Tupp.
Thank you.

I love your attitude, your openness to new perspectives
on stuff.

Mah hero!

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on March 19, 2020, 05:46:52 PM
I'm feeling very grateful too, Tupp. 

So glad you're feeling safe and well-positioned.

You're home. 

You've arrived : )

Lighter

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 21, 2020, 11:15:16 AM
Thanks, y'all!  It's such an odd situation.  The world is imploding around me and I'm feeling better than I have in years.  Internal badgering has all gone.  Virtually all physical symptoms gone.  Not having the pressure of what we need to do next is just incredible.  I cooked, cleaned and tidied up this morning, then made lunch.  And am now sitting on the sofa and if I wanted to do nothing at all for the rest of the day I could, and it wouldn't matter :)  I never get this!  But dinner is prepped, we've enough food for tomorrow and probably Monday as well (so hopefully don't need to head out on an early morning supermarket dash until Tuesday) and we've still got at least three weeks inside yet, if not longer.  I feel like I have choices for the first time in many, many years.  It's really nice :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on March 21, 2020, 11:58:30 AM
Don't forget music....
and dancing: )
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on March 21, 2020, 12:41:59 PM
(((((Tupp)))))

I wish there were a way for you to stockpile enough basics to stay home entirely for three weeks (except for walks).

It worries me about you regularly shopping.

Disabuse me!

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 21, 2020, 01:05:47 PM
(((((Tupp)))))

I wish there were a way for you to stockpile enough basics to stay home entirely for three weeks (except for walks).

It worries me about you regularly shopping.

Disabuse me!

Hugs
Hops

Yes, I would prefer not to go out at all but there are no online shopping slots for the next three weeks at present.  Some of the local companies have started doing deliveries but some of son's stuff I can only get in the supermarket.  People are offering to do shopping for people but again, with son's difficulties, it has to be very certain things and if something isn't there (supermarkets are being stripped bare by idiots panic buying) then I'd still have to go out myself to get it.  So at the minute the 6am runs are working, there aren't many people about, I'm wearing gloves, avoiding contact and people as much as poss, washing everything when I get home, including the food!  And generally keeping very clean with much hand washing.  There are definitely far fewer people about; there are usually people walking past my house all day but other than a couple of dog walkers first thing I've not seen a soul.  Hopefully if people are staying home more it will spread less.  We're going out for a walk tonight, after dark, just to get a bit of fresh air and some exercise.  We'll keep away from people :)
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 21, 2020, 01:06:50 PM
Don't forget music....
and dancing: )

There'll be dancing tomorrow, Lighter!  Dance Church are live streaming so everyone can join in from home :)  Lol xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on March 23, 2020, 03:03:27 PM
When I read your thread, Tupp....

it feels like the air thins out and cools down....

in my lungs. 

Fresh and joyful and new.

How did dance church go?

Lighter

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 24, 2020, 07:29:40 AM
When I read your thread, Tupp....

it feels like the air thins out and cools down....

in my lungs. 

Fresh and joyful and new.

How did dance church go?

Lighter

I got distracted by something I was doing with son so it was postponed, I'm sorting food and working out what we can make, what we need, what's in the freezer and so on.  I'm trying to get a good balance between making sure we've got enough and I don't need to go out to often and not having stuff in that won't get used up.  But then there will be dancing.  I am finding it hard to ground myself right now.  I cleaned my 'alter' this morning.  I have things on it that mean something to me - an ornament I bought on a day trip out with a friend, pictures of son and myself on days out, baby pictures of son.  So squooshy and tiny and chubby cheeked with his little babygros.  A vase a friend gave me, an oil burner that I bought myself as an act of self care so that I can inhale lovely scents when I do yoga, my incense burners because I love incense and I burn it as often as I can.  So I've cleaned it all and I'm glancing over at it, it just helps me focus on what's important to me and keep me from ruminating.  I think I'm picking up on everyone's anxieties and problems at the minute so I'm limiting internet time and I never watch or listen to the news anyway so I can avoid it as much as possible x
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on March 24, 2020, 10:23:06 AM
Good for you, (((((Tupp))))).

I think grounding is something that is there like earth and gravity, and sometimes we lose track a little and then get it back. You've been doing an amazing job, creative as always. I would love to enjoy your squeaky-clean home with the scent of incense. Is there any puttering in the dirt you could do in the garden? Does garden mean a patch of earth in front of your place, or is it out back? Does it get any sun?

I woke up today thinking: enjoy your home and love your friends. I just kept thinking it. Maybe it represented the same thing...reminding myself to be present, enjoy the moment, enjoy love, and try not to pick up on all the anxiety in the air.

I don't often think of it but the famous prayer by Reinhold Niebuhr also occurred to me, which have always struck me as wonderful even though I'm not a believer:
 
Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference.


Big hugs, you're not alone...and I am so happy you're here.

Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on March 24, 2020, 04:12:56 PM
I'm happy to have you here too, Tupp. 

I loved reading about your alter.... I can almost smell the essential oils.... I took a bath with an orange-scented candle in the bathroom. 

Little things bring pleasure if we find the focus.

Lighter 

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 25, 2020, 02:56:32 AM
Good for you, (((((Tupp))))).

I think grounding is something that is there like earth and gravity, and sometimes we lose track a little and then get it back. You've been doing an amazing job, creative as always. I would love to enjoy your squeaky-clean home with the scent of incense. Is there any puttering in the dirt you could do in the garden? Does garden mean a patch of earth in front of your place, or is it out back? Does it get any sun?

I woke up today thinking: enjoy your home and love your friends. I just kept thinking it. Maybe it represented the same thing...reminding myself to be present, enjoy the moment, enjoy love, and try not to pick up on all the anxiety in the air.

I don't often think of it but the famous prayer by Reinhold Niebuhr also occurred to me, which have always struck me as wonderful even though I'm not a believer:
 
Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference.


Big hugs, you're not alone...and I am so happy you're here.

Hops

Thanks, Hops.  I'm happy to be here with all of you.  So grateful and fortunate to have you all in my life.  My Nan used to have that prayer on the wall in her home.  The cannabis community have adapted it to:

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change
Courage to change the things I can
And weed to know the difference

Lol.  She would not have approved!  Always makes me smile, though :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 25, 2020, 02:58:55 AM
I'm happy to have you here too, Tupp. 

I loved reading about your alter.... I can almost smell the essential oils.... I took a bath with an orange-scented candle in the bathroom. 

Little things bring pleasure if we find the focus.

Lighter

An orange scented bath sounds heavenly, Lighter!  I lit mine up with candles last night.  I've got little fairy lights around the window and then lots of little tea light candles, including one that hangs inside a heart shaped holder, so the little love hearts reflect all across the wall.  It's really cute.  I put epsom salts in and lavender oil and was lying there last night thinking how lucky I was to have all this hot water to soak in and to be safe inside my home.  So important to be grateful for what we have.  Although I now want to get some orange scented candles.  Lol xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on March 25, 2020, 11:36:49 AM
I'm appreciating every drop of water I run, Tupp. 

Every lovely bath.

Every lovely candle and scented oil... and Epson salts too.

I have peppermint soaps....  I'm not the flowery scented type.  Give me citrus and medicinal please: )

Lighter 

 
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 26, 2020, 03:15:05 PM
I'm appreciating every drop of water I run, Tupp. 

Every lovely bath.

Every lovely candle and scented oil... and Epson salts too.

I have peppermint soaps....  I'm not the flowery scented type.  Give me citrus and medicinal please: )

Lighter

Lighter, although it's still cold here, it was so sunny this afternoon that I did yoga in front of the window, in a vest top, with wave music on in the background so I could pretend I was at the beach :)  Lol xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on March 26, 2020, 08:49:11 PM
I could feel the waves and smell the ocean reading your post, Tupp. 

I guess I'll head for the bathtub on that note: )

Lighter

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 27, 2020, 07:44:34 AM
Well apart from a blocked toilet causing a panic this morning (apparently people have been flushing all sorts of things they shouldn't have been due to the loo roll shortage so the sewers are getting blocked - I had visions of half the country's waste coming up through our bathroom) we are having a really nice time!  To have the choice  of what to do and when to do it is a luxury that I don't think I've ever encountered in my life.  Even as children we were always controlled by school routines and parents work schedules so, other than rare moments on holiday, I have always had something to do and a time to do it by.  And not having that is suddenly just the nicest thing.  I've watched a tutorial on 3D computer designs this morning, cleaned and rearranged the sitting room, done all the laundry and caught up on emails - all at a slow pace with the sun coming through the window and music in the background.  The plan for this afternoon is to plan and cook ahead with food - I've offered to add to our order for a couple of people who still can't get a delivery slot and who want to avoid the supermarket, and to clean the kitchen.  If the weather holds, I'll cut the grass later and tidy the back garden.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on March 27, 2020, 08:33:29 AM
I love the image of doing simple productive things, at your own pace, with music and sunlight, Tupp.  What a contrast to frenetic survival. I'm so glad ... it's as though ironically, quarantine is a welcoming respite. I get it.

And here's to avoiding supermarkets, for the duration.

I'm glad you have a back yard, too. Even small puttering in dirt can bring happiness. Growing a couple flowers or herbs in a pot. Any old pot, plastic jug, whatever. Doesn't matter when you can see beauty.

I am "ready" to garden again. One thing during my depressed springs was, I never stopped composting. I don't turn or work the pile, just add to it, and let nature water. So though it's super sloooow, it's there. Mostly leaves, tea bags minus the tags, produce trimmings. I forgot to do toilet roll cores but will start tearing them up and adding them too. Makes me happy to take my kitchen bowl of scraps out there once a week. No oils or animal anything keeps it clear of visitors.

"Here, earth. I'm a lazy, crap gardener but I give you this."

hugs,
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on March 27, 2020, 02:36:28 PM
Tupp:

I'm so sorry the toilets and sewers are backing up, but glad you're finding joy.  You really deserve some joy.

Hops:  I don't compost bc of the bears.... just feels like calling them into the yard  to me then the pug ONLY wants to go to that spot... she goes to the neighbor's compost piles if she's off leash.  I do have some azaleas to plant and a couple trees.  I'd like to get a garden in.... will see about trading things for seedlings neighbors started a while back.

Lighter

Having fresh basil and other herbs will be comforting.  I tried to save the potted porch plants in the crawl space. It's time to see how they're doing... what comes back or not.

Lighter

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 27, 2020, 02:55:56 PM
I love the image of doing simple productive things, at your own pace, with music and sunlight, Tupp.  What a contrast to frenetic survival. I'm so glad ... it's as though ironically, quarantine is a welcoming respite. I get it.

And here's to avoiding supermarkets, for the duration.

I'm glad you have a back yard, too. Even small puttering in dirt can bring happiness. Growing a couple flowers or herbs in a pot. Any old pot, plastic jug, whatever. Doesn't matter when you can see beauty.

I am "ready" to garden again. One thing during my depressed springs was, I never stopped composting. I don't turn or work the pile, just add to it, and let nature water. So though it's super sloooow, it's there. Mostly leaves, tea bags minus the tags, produce trimmings. I forgot to do toilet roll cores but will start tearing them up and adding them too. Makes me happy to take my kitchen bowl of scraps out there once a week. No oils or animal anything keeps it clear of visitors.

"Here, earth. I'm a lazy, crap gardener but I give you this."

hugs,
Hops

'A contrast to frenetic survival' is exactly, it, Hops.  There's been no boredom here, we both have plenty to do and are enjoying getting on with what we want to without any external pressure.  I didn't do any more work in the end, I made a stock out of the chicken carcass from dinner on Wednesday and used that to make a nice soup with carrots, onion and garlic.  I had that for lunch, then had a nap, then watched a film.  Dinner's cooking now and even though I've done so little today, relatively speaking, we've eaten nice meals, I've got food ready for the weekend (just double checked the freezer and there's plenty), the house is cleaner and tidier than it usually would be and I feel so much calmer.  It's lovely.

I think low maintenance compost is a great idea, Hops!  Yes, just pottering about outside is a good tonic.  We're very lucky that we've got our little yard to mooch about in xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on March 27, 2020, 03:15:01 PM
I love making soups and stocks, Tupp.  It's very comforting.

::nodding::

Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 28, 2020, 04:26:12 AM
I love making soups and stocks, Tupp.  It's very comforting.

::nodding::

Lighter

Me, too, Lighter, especially out of leftovers!  Feels like you get another couple of meals out of it with very little effort and I really like that.  I'm enjoying having the time and head space to think about and plan meals and snacks, instead of having to fit what we're eating into the time we've got available.  I think we'll both be healthier once this is over.

Also feeling very grateful that the EMDR has helped me so much and that I got it in before this all started!  The thought of being indoors for an indeterminate period of time in my previous mental state is really not good and I feel very grateful that mentally, I feel better than I have done for years - not deliriously happy, but all the excess baggage isn't there and that makes dealing with the here and now so much easier, whether it's good or bad.

And giving some serious thought now to not going back to my old lifestyle.  A couple of times a walk would have been nice and there are people we see when we're out and about - the cinema and library staff, for example, who I'll be very happy to see again once this is over, but other than that all I'm noticing is an absence of stress and I really like that.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on March 28, 2020, 02:06:52 PM
I'm glad you got through the EMDR too.  What an amazing time frame.  Seems like it was meant to be.

It's warm here.... bees everywhere.  I found one in the house today.  Are you guys experiencing a burst of spring life in your neighborhood?

Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on March 29, 2020, 06:18:57 AM
I'm glad you got through the EMDR too.  What an amazing time frame.  Seems like it was meant to be.

It's warm here.... bees everywhere.  I found one in the house today.  Are you guys experiencing a burst of spring life in your neighborhood?

Lighter

Yes, we have been spectacularly lucky to have done that before this happened, I don't know what I would have done if we'd been holed up for three months with me feeling the way I was before.  I've been very lucky.

We've buds on the trees, wild flowers coming up and lots of sunshine but it's veeeeery cold, the wind is very strong and absolutely freezing to stand out in.  Glad to be inside under a blanket at the moment :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on March 29, 2020, 02:30:28 PM
It got HOT here yesterday.  This morning was mild and nice to work in the moss and yard.  I have to get the garden ready for planting.  I think I'm excited about it?

Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 03, 2020, 07:18:35 AM
It got HOT here yesterday.  This morning was mild and nice to work in the moss and yard.  I have to get the garden ready for planting.  I think I'm excited about it?

Lighter

It is exciting whether the weather starts to heat up, although it's still cold here.  Nice and sunny though.

And I have to say I am just having the best time.  The early part of the week was wobbly - the incident with my mum and the friend who put the phone down on me unsettled me and I was upset.  But when I got up yesterday I thought, no, I'm not going back down these roads.  These people need to be left in the past and I must not keep looking back or revisiting them, or thinking they might be different when they've given me no reason to think that.  I did 90 minutes of yoga - 90 minutes!  And did the same again today.  I had so much tension in my back, neck and shoulders that it was painful at times, but I've worked most of it out now, I think, and feel much calmer and happier for it.

I'm eating much more healthily that I normally do, because I've got time to.  The house is much cleaner and tidier than it usually would be because I've got time to do it.  Son is very happy doing his thing and looks better than he has for months.  I am resting whenever I want to, for how long I want to, and it's doing me so much good.  I might spend this afternoon on the sofa watching a film.  It's beautiful and quiet, so quiet at the minute, which is giving my nerves a much needed rest from the constant noise and stream of people walking past the house.  A friend's mum contacted me yesterday to ask if we were okay and I thanked her, saying that it was very nice of her to do that when my own mum hasn't bothered.  A few people have popped up out of the woodwork to see how we are, and it's been very nice.  It does make me wonder how dysfunctional our society has become if the only thing that makes me feel well is it not functioning any more?  It's an unexpected turn of events x
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on April 03, 2020, 12:22:15 PM
Good for you, Tupp.
You really are allowing SELF-love to comfort you, regardless of what others do.
Bravo bravo bravo.

Did I say bravo?

I know what you mean about the beauty of the social slowdown.
Head on over to Silver Linings, I'll see you there!

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 06, 2020, 07:29:53 AM
Not feeling so great right now.  I'm limiting news to just checking twice a day but the stats are horrific and the PM is now hospitalised with the virus after the silly twat didn't follow his own guidance and neither did the Chief medical Officer!  She was caught visiting her second home, twice!  We're on lockdown, it's supposed to be food, medicine and exercise once a day, nothing else.  Idiotic people.  So we're at the 5,000 mark now, including 9 NHS staff who've died because they don't have the right protective clothing.  Photo of a new morgue that's been built in the last week and the funeral of a 13 year old boy who had to be laid to rest by four local authority workers, all wearing protective gear, because his family have all got symptoms now and they weren't allowed to attend.  A friend is in the awful situation where the hospice his dad is in have had to say no visitors and there will be no funeral due to demand at the moment.  He can't see him again before he dies and can't be there when he's buried, either.  And people are still going out for no reason and not paying attention to social distancing.  It's heartbreaking, more so because I feel so sorry for staff who are risking themselves looking after others when others won't take basic precautions and stay indoors.

So not feeling so perky today.  Am getting a lot done and still enjoying the peace and quiet, but I wish people weren't dying like this.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on April 06, 2020, 09:59:07 AM
I hear you, Tupp.

The main theme in everything you mention, apart from the sorrows of all the losses, is frustration over how selfishly others are behaving (and risking yet more people by their behavior).

The only thing we CAN control is what we do ourselves. I'm trying not to focus on those who don't pay attention and adhere to the guidelines. Even a neighbor who means well, came over and hung something from my door that I didn't need and hadn't asked for...so I had to go do more research on how to sterilize that. And now have to re-spray the door and handles, etc. She meant well but is one of those bravado-folks who feels everyone else is "over-reacting." She says, well you can be sure there is no-one sick over here. No, I can't. With asymptomatic transmission, people who feel normal are shedding their heaviest load of virus during the few days right before they actually feel or show symptoms. But I've been reading fact-based article after article for months; she hasn't. So those of us who do believe and trust experts and have basic faith in responsible journalism have to be wary of those who don't.

It is maddening but ... the whole mental health goal is NOT to be "enmaddened."

Hold on to your equanimity and your own serenity despite all the prats. It's worth it to wrench your focus off buffoons and back onto the positives, and even if it's only in your own small world, there you can still have peace and moments of joy and pleasure regardless.

Sometimes we just have to focus in, rather than out. I think I should start meditating.

Sending you balance and calm, and more tea. And friendly ginger cats and a happy son.

hugs
Hops

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on April 06, 2020, 12:52:15 PM
I'm sorry, Tupp. 

I hope you can find your serenity again soon.

Lighter

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 06, 2020, 01:05:41 PM
Thanks, Hops, yes, exactly that.  Son and I are safe in our little bubble, thank goodness, but it's hard going for so many people who can't go out for at least another couple of months because of their health problems making them vulnerable, and that's not go out at all, because they're more likely to be seriously affected by it and less likely to get a ventilator if that happens.  And it will go on for longer if other people don't adhere to the rules which, quite honestly, for most people aren't that difficult to cope with.  Even being sensible and going out early in the morning or late at night helps as there are fewer people around then, even in big cities.  So I am limiting news to twice a day just to check where we're at but when you see that the PM and the Chief Medical Officer aren't following their own advice you can see why other people don't.  Have just been feeling a bit anxious as food deliveries seem to be difficult to get again at the moment; I'll keep trying it but might need to do an early morning dash tomorrow and I'd rather stay home - and would feel less anxious about going out if I knew everyone else is being sensible.  I did meditate this afternoon and fell asleep :)

Son is being delicious, I have to say.  I tried to download a film for him this afternoon but there was a problem and it didn't happen.  He was so laid back about it and said, "Don't worry, mum, it will work another day, we'll watch it then" and went back off to his research projects (he's researching chemicals to see if he can find a way to stop the Corona Virus :) ).  there was a time when something like that would have left him in a big heap on the floor but he's just doing so well at the minute.  I am very determined to find a way of earning a living from home that involves him in some way so that we can continue our stress free living after the virus :)

Aw, and the cats this morning, Hops, there are two of them that come to visit when I feed the birds and they're both so cute!  The ginger one gets up on the wall and if I stop rubbing his head he puts his paw out to me for some more, he's so sweet.

I hope you got your surprise package sterilised okay!  It is difficult when people mean well but inadvertently put you and themselves at more risk.  I keep telling people that they're infectious without symptoms but a lot of people don't seem to be buying it.  They should have stopped public gatherings a lot sooner xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 06, 2020, 01:09:10 PM
[email][/email]
I'm sorry, Tupp. 

I hope you can find your serenity again soon.

Lighter

Aw, thanks, Lighter, I feel better than I did earlier, I think sometimes it just overwhelms me a bit.  There are so many sad stories, I think you can feel it sometimes, that other people are struggling?  In some ways I feel a bit guilty as well that it's not too bad for us?  It's just emotions, isn't it, they come up, do their thing, wander off again.  I just wish it was over already.  I think not knowing how bad it's going to be is hard?  Like watching a car crash and not being able to stop it from happening xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: CB123 on April 06, 2020, 01:38:12 PM
I really get it, Tupp. I hit the wall yesterday. Just felt weighted down with all of it and our county extended our shelter in place to May 20th unless something miraculous happens which means we're not half way through.  I really do enjoy the peace and solitude--my son and I are doing remarkably well and it helps so much that he is still working full time from home.

But! nights are hard. Sometimes awful. I turn on the radio at night and it is BBC and your news is so painful. Ours too--its like watching a movie where the music is getting ominous but nothing has happened yet. I typically pause the movie at that point and go then take a break and come back later (I'm no good with suspense!) but for this I just want it to be over. One son that I would like to stop going to the grocery store. One son who is still working in ICU. Everyone else is in, but the solitude can be wearing on mental health and that's another thing.

I'm so glad about your son. I can just see him puttering around and happy. I really get it, how happy and comforted that makes you. Yesterday my son (who lives with me) and my son (who lives 5 hours away, alone) played a multiplayer online game for hours and it just made me feel SO GOOD to know that they were happy and laughing even though I was having a hard day in the other part of the house. No use all of us having a bad day at the same time!

Today is better--a little more sun than we've been having. I got all my groceries that were "resting" in the foyer put away and got a good look at what I have and what is getting low. Probably won't be able to replenish the things that are getting low like eggs, since everyone else is low as well. I think if I went into the store, I could find eggs, but I'm just not going to. I figure if I were on the farm, there were parts of the year where there were no eggs--although not THIS time of year. This time of year we were swimming in them.

I have found that the things that I am low on will come back around to being available on a different day, so if you can substitute and get by for a couple of days, Tupp, check on those that are scarce right now and see if they are more plentiful then . It might be worth it above going out. They are saying in the States that our next 2 weeks will be the worst so I'm just not going to do any more shopping.

I was so sad to hear that your PM was hospitalized since that's generally not a good sign. He's not my favorite world leader, but its still so sad to see someone become that ill. I listened to your Queen's address the other day and it was really encouraging--we have so little encouragement from our leaders that it made me cry to hear her.

I think that a couple more weeks and we will be turning a corner--at least I hope so.

CB
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 06, 2020, 02:17:00 PM
I really get it, Tupp. I hit the wall yesterday. Just felt weighted down with all of it and our county extended our shelter in place to May 20th unless something miraculous happens which means we're not half way through.  I really do enjoy the peace and solitude--my son and I are doing remarkably well and it helps so much that he is still working full time from home.

But! nights are hard. Sometimes awful. I turn on the radio at night and it is BBC and your news is so painful. Ours too--its like watching a movie where the music is getting ominous but nothing has happened yet. I typically pause the movie at that point and go then take a break and come back later (I'm no good with suspense!) but for this I just want it to be over. One son that I would like to stop going to the grocery store. One son who is still working in ICU. Everyone else is in, but the solitude can be wearing on mental health and that's another thing.

I'm so glad about your son. I can just see him puttering around and happy. I really get it, how happy and comforted that makes you. Yesterday my son (who lives with me) and my son (who lives 5 hours away, alone) played a multiplayer online game for hours and it just made me feel SO GOOD to know that they were happy and laughing even though I was having a hard day in the other part of the house. No use all of us having a bad day at the same time!

Today is better--a little more sun than we've been having. I got all my groceries that were "resting" in the foyer put away and got a good look at what I have and what is getting low. Probably won't be able to replenish the things that are getting low like eggs, since everyone else is low as well. I think if I went into the store, I could find eggs, but I'm just not going to. I figure if I were on the farm, there were parts of the year where there were no eggs--although not THIS time of year. This time of year we were swimming in them.

I have found that the things that I am low on will come back around to being available on a different day, so if you can substitute and get by for a couple of days, Tupp, check on those that are scarce right now and see if they are more plentiful then . It might be worth it above going out. They are saying in the States that our next 2 weeks will be the worst so I'm just not going to do any more shopping.

I was so sad to hear that your PM was hospitalized since that's generally not a good sign. He's not my favorite world leader, but its still so sad to see someone become that ill. I listened to your Queen's address the other day and it was really encouraging--we have so little encouragement from our leaders that it made me cry to hear her.

I think that a couple more weeks and we will be turning a corner--at least I hope so.

CB

(((((((((((((((CB))))))))))))))))))  Fewer people have died here today than did yesterday, which I'm really hoping might mean we're over the worst of it and the numbers will keep reducing.  That will be such a blessing.  Yes, I think when you get to that point of not being able to do anything more than sit and wait it can get harder to keep your mind away from what's going on elsewhere.  They are talking about lockdown being in place here until the end of June.  We were prepared for twelve weeks inside anyway and took ourselves indoors a week before everyone was ordered to as well, and knowing me I'll give it a couple of weeks after they lift it just to be on the safe side anyway, in case there's a second surge.  I've managed to get a delivery booked for next week; I'd forgotten it was Easter this weekend which is why it's busy again.  I will need to go out to get some things tomorrow as we're completely out of quite a few things now, but I'll go first thing when the shop opens.  They clean overnight, staff are following good procedures and no-one else will have been in if I'm there when the doors open so it's safest.  The over-riding advice is wash your hands, wash your hands, wash your hands.  So I can get enough tomorrow to see us through to next week and then I've put a big order in, which I can add to, that will probably keep us going for a fortnight again.  It's just the having to think a lot about all of it, isn't it, because you can't just pop out when you need something.

I'm glad your lads were able to play online!  Such a good way of interacting and keeping in touch.  And that your son can work from home; that's a big help at the moment and makes for less worry.  Yes I'm liking seeing my son so content in his own little bubble.  I'm watching comedies and festival footage pretty endlessly; I just have it on in the background while I'm doing other things.  It's helping me to think about other things and keep my mind off it.  The weird thing is, when I go out into the garden, you can smell that the air is cleaner?  And you can see there are more birds, and we've had an endless stream of cats through our garden, some of which I've never seen before.  They're obviously just wandering further because there are fewer people around.  That aspect of it I love and I really hope that the improvements to pollution that we're experiencing stay in place.  It would be so good if that happened.

I do keep reminding myself that we're so much luckier than some at the minute.  I'm grateful for the enforced time we've had indoors over the years, it's prepared us well for this!  But yes, I would like it to be finished.  It does feel like one of those movies where the world has ended and only four people are still alive because it's so quiet here.  I like the fact there are fewer people wandering past the house all day but it feels strange.

Keep well, CB!  We'll keep getting through it :)  I even painted my fingernails today.  I don't think I've done that in nearly twenty years?  Lol xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 07, 2020, 01:44:00 AM
Well I feel better today :)  Whatever was going on the last two days seems to have settled itself.  I guess in such a strange time waves of feelings come over us and we have to try to ride them out best we can.

I went out very early to get groceries but they've changed the opening hours of the local shops so I was too early.  I'll head out again in a bit.  From looking through the window, though, they seem well stocked and there are lines clearly marked to stop people standing too close together.  I didn't see another soul around so I think a pre 6am walk would probably be a good idea; it was so quiet and peaceful and there's literally no-one else about - I saw some cars and a couple of people on push bikes but no-one else on foot until I got to the shop, and the shopping area is so wide you can walk round the outside of that and easily keep away from people.  You can feel that the air is cleaner and the moon was full, hanging very low in the sky.  It was really lovely to see.  Not even any cats about!  They must have all been inside waiting for their breakfast.

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on April 07, 2020, 06:52:41 PM
Smart idea about the early walks, Tupp.
Nature is still here, the planet is serene, and I find it helps so much to just be one of their creatures sometimes, taking advantage of fresh air and a spot of sunlight.

CB, I'm glad you're weathering it so well. I've decided on a news shutdown in the evenings, as that's when my psyche is least well defended from the global pain. Instead I'm doing silly things like watching young black male musicians on YouTube who are doing what is called "reaction" videos...taking in some of the music from the sixties and seventies they had no clue about. Watching their faces melt listening to the Righteous Brothers has been magical.

I've decided I'm ready to shelter (except for M's house) until 2021! It's simpler in my case since I'm not working. But the quiet is good for me. I feel extremely lucky to even be able to do this. And I keep casting back to the great depression my mother's family survived, on gardens, chickens and skim milk donated from a farmer. She made it. They mostly made it. And in my pleasant circumstances with my back yard, even if I have to hire helpers, I can make it too.

I think I'm just going to take this as a new life chapter that is going to have gifts within it. Try to be helpful where I can and the rest of the time, just grateful.

Hugs both,
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 08, 2020, 04:58:48 AM
Smart idea about the early walks, Tupp.
Nature is still here, the planet is serene, and I find it helps so much to just be one of their creatures sometimes, taking advantage of fresh air and a spot of sunlight.

CB, I'm glad you're weathering it so well. I've decided on a news shutdown in the evenings, as that's when my psyche is least well defended from the global pain. Instead I'm doing silly things like watching young black male musicians on YouTube who are doing what is called "reaction" videos...taking in some of the music from the sixties and seventies they had no clue about. Watching their faces melt listening to the Righteous Brothers has been magical.

I've decided I'm ready to shelter (except for M's house) until 2021! It's simpler in my case since I'm not working. But the quiet is good for me. I feel extremely lucky to even be able to do this. And I keep casting back to the great depression my mother's family survived, on gardens, chickens and skim milk donated from a farmer. She made it. They mostly made it. And in my pleasant circumstances with my back yard, even if I have to hire helpers, I can make it too.

I think I'm just going to take this as a new life chapter that is going to have gifts within it. Try to be helpful where I can and the rest of the time, just grateful.

Hugs both,
Hops

Hops, that's what I noticed this morning.  Because the endless stress and pressure and rushing around has ceased, and it's so much quieter outside so my ears aren't being assaulted as I try to get through my day, I found this morning that I was actually, genuinely noticing the things I was able to do and feeling grateful for them.  I don't usually feel gratitude.  Relief, a lot of the time, that I can get something done, and I think to myself '"Thank goodness I can do this instead of that", but I don't feel it.  It's a separate, logical process and it's not connected to my body and my emotions, and I think that's because my body and emotions are usually just dealing with the stress and the pressure.

But this morning I found myself feeling grateful for the clean clothes hanging in my wardrobe and enjoying the feeling of putting them on, enjoying the sensation of the toothpaste in my mouth and the warm water on my face.  There isn't usually time to notice those things.  My mind is on the other 150 things I need to get through before bed time and there's just no space to appreciate something as simple as putting a clean pair of pants on.

I spent two hours cleaning and re-organising my kitchen.  Two hours!  I never have two hours to do anything.  I've been through all the food we have in and listed it all on a whiteboard that I usually keep up to write notes to remind myself what to do.  I've split it into lists of fresh (which needs to be used up first) and then a list of what I have in the cupboard so I can see easily what I need to use up quickly and what I've got to add it to.  How organised is that?!  Would never usually have time to do that.  The weather is warming up so I mopped the floor with the back door open and the breeze wafting through to dry it.  I made myself a really nice breakfast of hard boiled egg, cucumber, tomato and cheese and I've got endless loops of festival footage playing through the TV.  I just never, ever get time to have a morning like that.  And it's still not even 10am yet :)

The bear hunt thing has caught on over here so we put something in the window this morning.  Our neighbour's little girl broke free from the garden and was running down the street chasing a cat.  She stopped when she saw the bear and stopped to look at it - which gave her mum time to catch up and grab her!  So it's already been very useful.  Lol.

I don't want to go back to my old life.  I'm enjoying this one of quiet and pressure free mornings, and having the whole day ahead of me and knowing I can do what I need to do and still have time to relax at the end of it, instead of knowing that even if I rush about all day, I won't get everything done.  It's a much nicer feeling.  I'm going to have a look out for those YouTube videos you mention as well, they sound great! xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on April 08, 2020, 12:21:59 PM
Tupp:

I'm glad to finally be on the same page with you..... enjoying little things like feeling toothpaste in the mouth (suggest TOM's activated charcoal toothpaste, fun for the whole family!)   

The mossing neighbor created her first feature and I'll get to see it today.  The most rabid conspiracy theorists around me are calming it the f down and I've done so much work in the moss I feel terrific this morning... looking forward to continuing it, sharing it with the mossing neighbor..... finding out if her neighbor, with perfect moss yard, has information to help me care for mine and figure out the big yellow blotches. 

I'm glad you've had some fun with the bear hunt.  It IS taking pleasure in the little things that bring us joy.

Lighter

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 09, 2020, 12:34:01 PM
The conspiracy theories have blown my mind, Lighter, and I've been shocked at some of the absolute nonsense I've heard spouted by people I know are (usually) kind and intelligent.  My psychologist friend has a theory that many people have addictions to the things that they do - work, BBQs, holidays, second homes, shopping at the weekend and so on (I asked him why he thought people as knowledgeable as the PM and Chief Medical Officer ignored their own advice about keeping safe at the moment - subsequently the PM got ill and the CMO resigned) and that people look for excuses not to have to give up doing the thing they're addicted to.  So if they can declare the virus to be pretend, or part of a plan to microchip the population, or a power grab by world leaders, then they can justify carrying on with what they want to do.  It made sense to me.  I am often the most 'radical' of the people I know.  I don't trust the government, I have a lot of unease over Western World methods, I don't trust doctors to tell me the truth (simply because so many have lied to me over the years) so I'm often the most 'out there' one.  But with this I've been amazed at people I know ignoring the lockdown because they don't think any of it's real.  It makes sense to me that they're using it as a way to still be able to satisfy their need, whatever it might be.

Anyway, I'm digressing :)  I'm glad you found your way into a happy space.  I am finding I'm having a good day or two followed by a not too good day or two.  Not terribly not good, just lacking in energy.  Although I have done something hideous to my back, which I've been trying to sort out with yoga (I would usually go to the osteopath but they are closed) and yesterday I felt something pop as I was trying to stretch the muscles.  I think it popped in a good way - I'm not in as much pain today and it's definitely easier to move - but I wonder if that's why I've felt tired and listless today.  But it's okay, right, because I don't have to go anywhere or do anything anyway :)  So a lazy day on the sofa has been okay.

I hope your mossing continues to go well!  I am casting around on the internet looking at travel plans for post virus get aways - not that anyone knows when that will happen but it's nice to be able to read about possibilities :)  Hope you are all bearing up okay :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: CB123 on April 09, 2020, 01:46:56 PM
Tupp,
I have noticed the exact same thing: 2 very good upbeat days, followed by a down day (or two). There doesnt seem a rhyme or reason to it. Glad for the upbeat days, that's for sure.

CB
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 09, 2020, 02:35:01 PM
Tupp,
I have noticed the exact same thing: 2 very good upbeat days, followed by a down day (or two). There doesnt seem a rhyme or reason to it. Glad for the upbeat days, that's for sure.

CB

It's weird isn't it, CB, I got loads done yesterday and was very productive and then today making lunch felt like an enormous challenge.  Yes, also glad for the up days, I hope you are all doing alright xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on April 09, 2020, 08:04:35 PM
My moss friend showed up this afternoon.  Her energy was down for the first time....so I took a sled, a bucket, a laundry basket and her on a moss hunt.

We filled every container quickly.  I found a lovely moss covered stump....nice and light.  She was like a happy child.  I went behind her, replanting and tidying up.  Eventually she began paying attention....learning how to keep the moss patches beautiful and healthy.

She's done EMDR and wondered why she didn't remember to use it.  I hope all that free gold ( moss, flowers and vines she loved) lifted her day. We walked for miles, jumped creeks and didn't pick up heavy things.....a very good hunt.

I have to say....Im a bit obsessed with her garden.  It grows everything....lush and alive.  In my yard I killed so many of the mosses she has growing wild in hers. Colony after colony.....big and healthy.  Very different from what grows in my yard, which is thick and healthy too.  She has upright growers.  I don't.  I think it's that she's in a pretty steep high property and I'm on a low spot...pretty flat. Her drainage must be perfect.
::shaking head::.
Perfect.

I don't think she understood how amazing her garden is.  She does now.

We're all having our ups and downs.
Lighter

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 10, 2020, 01:30:07 AM
My moss friend showed up this afternoon.  Her energy was down for the first time....so I took a sled, a bucket, a laundry basket and her on a moss hunt.

We filled every container quickly.  I found a lovely moss covered stump....nice and light.  She was like a happy child.  I went behind her, replanting and tidying up.  Eventually she began paying attention....learning how to keep the moss patches beautiful and healthy.

She's done EMDR and wondered why she didn't remember to use it.  I hope all that free gold ( moss, flowers and vines she loved) lifted her day. We walked for miles, jumped creeks and didn't pick up heavy things.....a very good hunt.

I have to say....Im a bit obsessed with her garden.  It grows everything....lush and alive.  In my yard I killed so many of the mosses she has growing wild in hers. Colony after colony.....big and healthy.  Very different from what grows in my yard, which is thick and healthy too.  She has upright growers.  I don't.  I think it's that she's in a pretty steep high property and I'm on a low spot...pretty flat. Her drainage must be perfect.
::shaking head::.
Perfect.

I don't think she understood how amazing her garden is.  She does now.

We're all having our ups and downs.
Lighter

Ah, Lighter, you're moss hunting while the kids are bear hunting!  That sounds really lovely, it will be nice to have some ongoing positives to come out of this - moss gardens and a new friend sound like a good place to head to :)

I've noticed my stress reaction levels are way down.  I put the hot water on when I got up this morning and fifteen minutes later realised the heating was on.  When I went to turn it off I discovered that the timer has broken and both heating and hot water are on and can't be switched off again.  Will definitely be a job for a plumber to sort out but in the meantime I switched the radiators off individually and didn't realise I hadn't panicked about it until about half an hour later (it's Easter Bank Holiday here so nothing will get done until Tuesday at the earliest and we're in the middle of a global pandemic which doesn't help).  I just dealt with it and got on with what else I was doing - which was sitting outside at 5.45am drinking tea whilst looking up at the moon and watching our cat stalking around the area looking for other cats to terrorise.  Now I'm back indoors, the washing machine is on and I'm happy to get on with my to do list, none of which is terribly urgent or dramatic but all of which will feel nice to get out of the way.  2020 is continuing to not be too bad at all for us :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 10, 2020, 03:10:25 PM
Lighter,
I'm enjoying your moss stories too! I am known at the store for digging around for sticks and rocks, etc and "saving" them for something I am working on. I love moss so much and we just don't have much around here. We get big boxes of it for our use, but most of it is so sad. I wish I could see what you are working on--I know I would love it. Hard to explain how it makes you feel to look at something like that.

Tupp, I had an experience like that the other night--I was putting away dinner leftovers and noticed that the freezer was warmer than it should be and the fridge thermometer was registered a bit to high. Moment of panic. I have lost whole refrigerators full of food before, and this is not the time to do that. I realized that the intake air was a bit blocked because I cut up all that ham and stacked it in front of it. So I pulled it back and gave it some space, closed the door and crossed my fingers. Sure enough! Everything is okay and I didnt come unwound like I usually would.

Wonder if we will get to the end of this and wonder if we have found a better way to live life?

CB

CB, I really hope we have found a better way to live!  I really don't want to go back to my old life.  I am enjoying just not feeling ill, not feeling stressed or tense or having to watch the clock all day.  My house is quiet and calm, my garden is quiet and calm, my paperwork needs doing but isn't constantly on my mind.  It's like everything got suspended and I feel so much better for it.  I don't want to go back to rushing here and there, usually for no good reason.  I am really liking things the way they are (apart from the risk of catching a deadly disease if I need to go out for milk, obviously!).  But all the other bits of this situation are really making me think I just want to go and live with hippies, grow food, keep chickens and do yoga.  I've cut the grass this evening; we've got a tiny garden but I've cut the grass in areas so some bits with pretty weeds growing through (I don't know what kind they are but they have little flowers and they look nice) have stayed long and I've cut little paths through.  It looks cute.  I got an old decorating table out of the shed and a couple of camping chairs and now we have a little area to sit and drink tea.  There's a little bit of moss!  But not much :)

Son sent an email to his tutor this evening.  She's been messaging me so I set him up his own address and helped him write a message to her, asking her to forward his email and mobile number to his college friends so that they can keep in touch with him.  He did it, and when I said at the end, "do you want to write 'from' or 'love'?", he said, "I'll put 'sincerely' because that sounds more formal".  He was just so cute and a lot of the time doing stuff like that is just stressful because it's something else to shoehorn in to the day and while I'm doing it I'm thinking, I've got to do tea, I've got to get the washing in, I've got to sort those bits out for tomorrow otherwise I'll be stressing while I look for them, and so on.  There's just no time to be in the moment and I'm really enjoying having that now.

I'm glad you sorted out your fridge!  It's amazing how often something fairly small sorts a problem out if we don't panic :)  Good that it's sorted and didn't spoil all of your food, that would have been awful :( xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on April 10, 2020, 04:30:43 PM
Wow.

CB AND Tupp, the not-freaking-out over things not working correctly stories are so meaningful. Profound even. What that signals really is, to me, the culmination of Don't Sweat the Small Stuff.

This pandemic, its accompanying terror and present-focus, is also bringing those changes. I could find hope in wondering if people will retain this...a sense of relief, pleasure and especially PROPORTION as we navigate life.

I'm leading a Zoom discussion this Sunday on exactly that. Looking forward to it.

Thank you both for being an eternal inspiration to me.

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on April 10, 2020, 07:05:41 PM
I didn't do a lot of mossing today, but I did pick up hundreds of sticks knocked down by the wind.

The washing machine was out of order this morning..... and all day.  That was upsetting, on and off.  I have an appointment with the repair guy next week.... his business is very busy.  I guess he's considered an essential worker. 

He'll look at the washer and my stovetop too. 

You guys are right, it's not a BIG deal, but it's easy to feel out of control if we have to deal with food rotting or clothes souring while locked in the washer with no way to get them out. I'm spoiled.  I don't want to wash blankets by hand.  I don't think I could, frankly.  So spoiled.

CB... there's beauty all around us if we look.  Special sticks, and rocks and little stumps..... little ferns, beautiful weeds..... and moss.  I do love moss. 

Tupp, I'm glad you have time to really enjoy your son and what he's up to lately.  What exactly is tea?  Do you prepare a meal, or just tea and biscuits? 

I'm relaxing into the quiet and peace.  Getting things done around the house feels good.  Cooking comfort food smells and feels good, but I'm gaining a bit of weight.  Oh well. I wish it would rain.

Hops:  Thanks for reminder.... it's all small stuff.  Have fun at your Zoom discussion Sunday: )
 
Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on April 10, 2020, 09:16:39 PM
Thanks, Lighter.
Here's how I described it to the group:

------------------------------------
Covid-19: Silver Linings.

For background, I'd like to propose we start by stipulating we're all lin touch with: great shock, grief, anger and loss. Our topic isn't about side-stepping the wrenching realities of what our own culture (much less the often-class-based global suffering) is experiencing during this pandemic.

The bad news is everywhere and easily available. What's a little more ephemeral are some nuanced things we can explore together: Moments of serenity, perspective, calm, change of pace, energy, connection, awareness, priority shifting, rebalancing, simplicity, sustainability, etc. My interest in this topic is based in hope that a scalding global threat like this might ultimately produce cascading forms of cultural or personal realignment or rebirth. I'm influenced by the Dust Bowl and Great Depression experiences of one side of my family and qualities they developed as a result.

Here are two specific questions to help focus your thoughts:

1) Have you experienced any unexpected positive moments during this time of worry and isolation?

2) If you ponder such a moment, does it seem to represent any deeper realization or possibility?
--------------------------

I look forward to what they have to say....it really is a comfort to see faces and hear their voices again. It's an interesting group of people, diverse and from many walks of life.

Hugs
Hops

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Garbanzo on April 10, 2020, 10:43:04 PM
1) Have you experienced any unexpected positive moments during this time of worry and isolation?

No not really. I prefer not to sugarcoat reality. Avoiding sickness and death is only adding more layers of complication to life.

2) If you ponder such a moment, does it seem to represent any deeper realization or possibility?

I guess I'm not really searching for any deeper meaning right now. Everything that is practical is meaningful without contemplation.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on April 10, 2020, 11:14:39 PM
Well I can see that too, G.

I am usually fierce about embracing reality instead of fairy tales.

I have an inner default to optimism and hope though.
I think it's built in, so it's part of my real response.

I think I'm not brave enough to be all pain, all the time.

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on April 11, 2020, 01:02:30 AM
And Lighter, I love what moss is to you and does for you, and you for it.

I'll never unappreciate moss again, thanks to your journey with it.

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 11, 2020, 04:52:49 AM
Wow.

CB AND Tupp, the not-freaking-out over things not working correctly stories are so meaningful. Profound even. What that signals really is, to me, the culmination of Don't Sweat the Small Stuff.

This pandemic, its accompanying terror and present-focus, is also bringing those changes. I could find hope in wondering if people will retain this...a sense of relief, pleasure and especially PROPORTION as we navigate life.

I'm leading a Zoom discussion this Sunday on exactly that. Looking forward to it.

Thank you both for being an eternal inspiration to me.

Hugs
Hops

Hops, it's definitely made me realise how lucky I am to be able to just go and buy food when I want to.  I've always been aware that I can do that (and aware other people can't) but it took for me not to be able to buy groceries to really understand how fortunate I am to be able to do that easily under normal circumstances.  I'm also feeling really grateful for my safe little house, my little garden, the gadgets I've got that work (cooker, washing machine, TV, computer).  My son came downstairs this morning straight out of bed, smiling.  He never does that.  He's usually tired, grumpy, doesn't want to talk.  But today he came down beaming and actually sat next to me to eat his breakfast.  Usually he wants me to leave the room so he can eat on his own but today he wanted to chat.  I can't tell you how nice that was.  Leading a Zoom discussion sounds very interesting!  I look forward to hearing more about that :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 11, 2020, 07:47:01 AM
I didn't do a lot of mossing today, but I did pick up hundreds of sticks knocked down by the wind.

The washing machine was out of order this morning..... and all day.  That was upsetting, on and off.  I have an appointment with the repair guy next week.... his business is very busy.  I guess he's considered an essential worker. 

He'll look at the washer and my stovetop too. 

You guys are right, it's not a BIG deal, but it's easy to feel out of control if we have to deal with food rotting or clothes souring while locked in the washer with no way to get them out. I'm spoiled.  I don't want to wash blankets by hand.  I don't think I could, frankly.  So spoiled.

CB... there's beauty all around us if we look.  Special sticks, and rocks and little stumps..... little ferns, beautiful weeds..... and moss.  I do love moss. 

Tupp, I'm glad you have time to really enjoy your son and what he's up to lately.  What exactly is tea?  Do you prepare a meal, or just tea and biscuits? 

I'm relaxing into the quiet and peace.  Getting things done around the house feels good.  Cooking comfort food smells and feels good, but I'm gaining a bit of weight.  Oh well. I wish it would rain.

Hops:  Thanks for reminder.... it's all small stuff.  Have fun at your Zoom discussion Sunday: )
 
Lighter

Lighter the washer packing up is a big deal, washing by hand is hard work and not as effective as you need right now, especially blankets!  I hope he can get it fixed for you next week.  Have you got stuff stuck in it?  That's not nice :(

Tea is both of those things, it can either be just a cup of tea or your evening meal.  Some people call it tea, some people call it dinner.  Some other people call the midday meal dinner and some call it lunch.  Lol, Tea if it's a meal is a bit less formal, I think, something fairly quick, whereas dinner would be more of a 'proper' meal that you put a bit more effort into.  It is funny how the same word can mean different things.  I might even look up why as we're on lockdown and I've got a bit more time than usual!

It's a shame you can't train pug to collect the sticks!  Lol, it would save you a lot of bending down.  Do you stash them all somewhere or have you got a secret use for them? xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 11, 2020, 11:35:11 AM
Thanks, Lighter.
Here's how I described it to the group:

------------------------------------
Covid-19: Silver Linings.

For background, I'd like to propose we start by stipulating we're all lin touch with: great shock, grief, anger and loss. Our topic isn't about side-stepping the wrenching realities of what our own culture (much less the often-class-based global suffering) is experiencing during this pandemic.

The bad news is everywhere and easily available. What's a little more ephemeral are some nuanced things we can explore together: Moments of serenity, perspective, calm, change of pace, energy, connection, awareness, priority shifting, rebalancing, simplicity, sustainability, etc. My interest in this topic is based in hope that a scalding global threat like this might ultimately produce cascading forms of cultural or personal realignment or rebirth. I'm influenced by the Dust Bowl and Great Depression experiences of one side of my family and qualities they developed as a result.

Here are two specific questions to help focus your thoughts:

1) Have you experienced any unexpected positive moments during this time of worry and isolation?

2) If you ponder such a moment, does it seem to represent any deeper realization or possibility?
--------------------------

I look forward to what they have to say....it really is a comfort to see faces and hear their voices again. It's an interesting group of people, diverse and from many walks of life.

Hugs
Hops

This sounds so interesting, Hops, I'd love to hear what people come back with.  Yes, it feels odd to talk about good things when so much of it is awful but it's also odd that good things are appearing.  The things I'm reading about the pollution levels dropping is just mind blowing - 100% success rate for turtle hatching in India, apparently, because there aren't any people using the beach.  Just one example.  I hope you enjoy the talk, I love the way you've worded it all.  Is this with your church group that you go to? xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 11, 2020, 11:45:39 AM
I know I am sounding a bit like a broken record at the minute but I feel like i'm going through a really deep, intense period of healing at the minute.  I'm very aware that it isn't like that for a lot of people and I didn't think for one minute it would be like that for me - I thought we'd cope okay because we don't go out much anyway but I didn't think it would do the things it's doing.  But I'm just finding I feel much healthier because I can kind of do what my body needs to do when it needs to do it.  I can make a meal when I'm hungry rather than grabbing a snack because I don't have time.  I did yoga this morning and it was lovely, and I was able to just sit in the garden for a while afterwards rather than having to finish it and rush off to do something else (yoga just feels like another thing on my to do list under normal circumstances).  I had a two hour nap after lunch, two hours!  And then didn't have to start rushing about as soon as I got up because I needed to catch up on what I hadn't done.  Life is so simple at the moment (for us, I know it isn't for a lot of people).  But it's just meals, cleaning the house and doing physical healthcare stuff, and then reading, watching films, chatting with son (who is like a different person at the moment).  I got him to sit in the garden for five minutes today.  He hasn't wanted to go out at all because he's worried about the germs but I showed him that I'd cleaned everything and went round the garden burning incense; I told him it would smoke the germs out (no-one else uses our garden and I don't lend anything to anyone so I don't think germs could have got onto anything in there anyway but it reassured him - and I do know incense doesn't kill germs, it was just to make him feel less anxious).  But he came out and he sat for five minutes and then went back in.  That's huge for him, and only possible because his anxiety's reduced.

What's interesting for me as well is that I've always thought that the reason we find life so difficult and stressful is because we're on a low income.  But we're on exactly the same income now that we usually are, and life has been a lot nicer.  It's being out of the house that's the source of stress, that and the constant noise from other people going by all the time.  That was something I wasn't expecting either.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 12, 2020, 11:05:28 AM
Hops,
My unexpected positive moment is how very deeply I am enjoying this solitude and isolation. I do live with one son, although he is still working full time and socializing on line with his friends so we dont spend a lot of time together other than supper. Most of the day, I am alone with my thoughts or my reading--no background retail type music on an endless loop in the background. No multi tasking. Naps. Sitting and looking out the window and thinking. I am reveling in it, even after a month.

The deeper realization or possibility is that maybe I don't want to continue working. It would mean living very simply and there would be no more shopping for Christmas or splurging on a new plant. I dont know what conclusion I will come to, but I am willing to look at it.

CB

That's very similar for me, CB.  Son is in his room most of the day, doing his stuff.  Not having to multi-task or constantly think about what the next priority needs to be has been an enormous change for me.  I make breakfast.  I tidy up.  And then I can choose what I do  until lunchtime.  That just doesn't happen ordinarily.  And yes, I have no desire to go out to work now.  I'd always thought that was what I needed.  But we've been much happier and healthier going nowhere and seeing no-one.  It's an odd situation.  Our income, although low, is perfectly adequate for a 'not going out' lifestyle.  It's making me wonder about travelling again - can I buy a van big enough for myself and son to live out of and embark on some sort of nomadic adventure, making enough money to live on along the way?  It's something I want to investigate now, for sure.

I am continuing to enjoy the lack of pressure.  It just feels nice.  I slept for two hours again after lunch today.  I did yoga this morning; I'm going to do some more in a second before I cook dinner.  We've got plenty in and another delivery coming tomorrow.  The washing is out on the line, in the sunshine.  It's gloriously quiet all around.  Our death toll now is over 10,000; they're not sure how much over because they've only been counting the deaths in hospitals, not the ones in the community as well.  And of course, these are only virus related deaths, the 'usual' ways people die have carried on so all those people will have to be cremated without a proper funeral as well.  The reason I mention it is because the thing that always stopped me travelling with son was thinking that at least in the UK we have a system, albeit a flawed one, so that if something happened to me he'd receive some sort of care.  This has shown me that's not the case - they're sending out Do Not Resuscitate forms to people with disabilities and older people, asking them not to call ambulances if they get sick.  Just to lie down quietly at home and die on their own without making a fuss or inconveniencing anyone.  And many people agree with it.  It has just sickened me to my core.  I keep seeing myself and son on a remote beach somewhere looking after stray dogs, with a little house, some chickens and a veg patch.  So we're in this odd kind of situation.  Isolated at home, we're happy, healthy and doing well.  Step a toe into the outside world and we are simply an inconvenience to be disposed of.  It's unsettled me deeply on one level, yet on another I'm genuinely feeling happier and healthier than I think I ever have before.  Maybe certain times in my early twenties when things were going well.  But definitely not for at least twenty years or so.  It's a very interesting time.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on April 12, 2020, 11:37:07 AM
Tupp, I love the positives that are flooding you. You posted something a while back that I've shared with people: "It took the world slowing down for me to feel like part of it."

I really get that. Despite extroversion, I'm actually an "introverted extrovert" and the world's sudden slowdown is like receiving permission to be what I already am. I still struggle with too much inactivity, but feel oddly more comfortable about taking my time, and doing whatever I want at my own pace. Slooooowly, I'm doing more things.

It's also just delightful to read about the changes in your son. Peacefully doing his own thing in his room, yet managing five minutes in the garden, normally too busy or noisy for him.
I also really connected with you being spared the racket of people passing outdoors. If there's not enough front yard to serve as a sound cushion, that would affect me a lot too.

I'm very sorry for the feelings about the disabled being disregarded. That sucks and I can understand how it's hitting you. Governments are making some brutal choices during all this, and it's hard not to resent them, especially when we know the 1% will have all the care and comfort they'd like. (In my case, though I'm just 70 in a couple weeks, if I have the courage I'd choose to stay home, get drunk with some stashed pills, and go on my own. I just dread the idea of an ICU. Hope I never get it or if I do, I can sleep through it and go bye-bye. That may be unrealistic, as not being able to breathe induces panic. But it's best I just keep on seriously social distancing and disinfecting and not ever face that choice. That's my plan.)

Back to happier stuff.

CB--I DO hope you'll be able to not return to work! Or if you need to earn something, that Etsy or private cooking at your own schedule, or even babysitting unless that's nightmarish, might bring you enough PT extra income to make the difference. There might be a family in your own complex who'd be grateful to pay you for a few hours baby care a couple times a week. I'd gladly take on ONE baby under two for a couple times, judiciously.) Being on your feet day after day in a corporate environment, despite the gorgeous flowers, must be exhausting.

You've earned better, and if a quiet puttering retirement is possible for you, I hope you can do it.

My pleasure in all the silver linings are increasing and I sense these forced changes are bringing me awareness of ways I can resuscitate happiness and remember that for me, the biggest goal in life is loving connections, and nature. I can still have those.

BABY BEETS! Since out of depression I quit gardening for years, having managed to set up the veggie beds (with a helper for a few hours to prepare the soil and M's help planting the seeds), and now seeing tiny plants pop through...is ridiculously wonderful. I am grateful the pandemic has pushed me to remember how satisfying dirt is, how good I feel growing anything. The 15 minutes I spend watering every evening are the loveliest of the day.

I remember that simple pleasures, and earth, and friends, really are all there is to it. Despite some anxiety and brief asthma yesterday, today feels good again. I'm even grateful for Zoom.

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 12, 2020, 12:06:08 PM
Tupp, I love the positives that are flooding you. You posted something a while back that I've shared with people: "It took the world slowing down for me to feel like part of it."

I really get that. Despite extroversion, I'm actually an "introverted extrovert" and the world's sudden slowdown is like receiving permission to be what I already am. I still struggle with too much inactivity, but feel oddly more comfortable about taking my time, and doing whatever I want at my own pace. Slooooowly, I'm doing more things.

It's also just delightful to read about the changes in your son. Peacefully doing his own thing in his room, yet managing five minutes in the garden, normally too busy or noisy for him.
I also really connected with you being spared the racket of people passing outdoors. If there's not enough front yard to serve as a sound cushion, that would affect me a lot too.

I'm very sorry for the feelings about the disabled being disregarded. That sucks and I can understand how it's hitting you. Governments are making some brutal choices during all this, and it's hard not to resent them, especially when we know the 1% will have all the care and comfort they'd like. (In my case, though I'm just 70 in a couple weeks, if I have the courage I'd choose to stay home, get drunk with some stashed pills, and go on my own. I just dread the idea of an ICU. Hope I never get it or if I do, I can sleep through it and go bye-bye. That may be unrealistic, as not being able to breathe induces panic. But it's best I just keep on seriously social distancing and disinfecting and not ever face that choice. That's my plan.)

Back to happier stuff.

CB--I DO hope you'll be able to not return to work! Or if you need to earn something, that Etsy or private cooking at your own schedule, or even babysitting unless that's nightmarish, might bring you enough PT extra income to make the difference. There might be a family in your own complex who'd be grateful to pay you for a few hours baby care a couple times a week. I'd gladly take on ONE baby under two for a couple times, judiciously.) Being on your feet day after day in a corporate environment, despite the gorgeous flowers, must be exhausting.

You've earned better, and if a quiet puttering retirement is possible for you, I hope you can do it.

My pleasure in all the silver linings are increasing and I sense these forced changes are bringing me awareness of ways I can resuscitate happiness and remember that for me, the biggest goal in life is loving connections, and nature. I can still have those.

BABY BEETS! Since out of depression I quit gardening for years, having managed to set up the veggie beds (with a helper for a few hours to prepare the soil and M's help planting the seeds), and now seeing tiny plants pop through...is ridiculously wonderful. I am grateful the pandemic has pushed me to remember how satisfying dirt is, how good I feel growing anything. The 15 minutes I spend watering every evening are the loveliest of the day.

I remember that simple pleasures, and earth, and friends, really are all there is to it. Despite some anxiety and brief asthma yesterday, today feels good again. I'm even grateful for Zoom.

hugs
Hops

Aw, that's great that the beets are growing already!  Imagine how nice that will be when you can pick them out and have them for dinner that night :)  And yes, I am doing more things because I'm having the time not to have to cope with what everyone else is doing and how it effects me.  It's just a nice feeling.

Yes, I get completely not wanting to be resuscitated; it's a horrible process and causes a lot of physical damage sometimes from what I understand.  It's just the blanket decision to shelve millions of people who aren't even ill yet and tell them they're not worth even the time of having a conversation about it should the need arise.  And I get that it's an emergency situation now and unprecedented blah blah blah, but it's only that way because the arsewipe leaders of this world didn't just shut down all non-essential travel as soon as the problem developed in China and keep anyone who did have to travel quarantined and/or tested.  Other countries have controlled it by testing, self isolating and finding everyone the infected person came into contact with.  If the worst happened I would be having a conversation about whether son would be better at home, sedated, with me by his side, rather than in hospital on his own with tubes sticking out of him.  But it's a conversation that you need to have if you need to have it.  They've been sending letters to perfectly fit and healthy autistic adults asking them to sign DNR forms.  Autism just means they process information differently, that's all.  How bizarre that not being diagnosed might actually save lives right now?  It just epitomises for me everything that is wrong in the world, but also is making me feel more determined to go out after this and live our lives our way, not to keep trying to do what everyone else is doing.

I hope the anxiety and asthma has passed now.  I am getting moments of anxiety, I'm finding, but today have kept off all online activity apart from here and that's helped.  More focusing in and less focusing on what everyone else is doing.  That's definitely a lesson I want to keep in mind.  I am looking forward to the next update of the beet growing activity!  Lol xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 13, 2020, 05:06:10 AM
I'm having a sad day today.  Sad for all the people who have died alone and who aren't getting a funeral, which isn't even just restricted to Covid victims but also, of course, all the other people who have died of other causes.  Sad for the people who have lost their jobs, who are grieving for family members, who can't see their relatives for fear of passing on infection.  The people who are still working, who some would view as lucky but they're taking a risk every day they go out.  Sad to see the people who are refusing to stay at home, who are abusing doctors and nurses in the street and online, sickened by our government's refusal to firstly deal with the situation effectively and secondly to apologise for not dealing with it.  Sad to see that people are still supporting them and saying they're wonderful, and still refusing to acknowledge the amazing contribution immigrants make to this country.  Almost every NHS staff member who has died was from another country.  How utterly sad and heartbreaking is that.  And doctors on twitter with foreign sounding names are being racially abused.  It just makes me feel sad.

Food has arrived, though, so will keep busy with food prep and organising what to eat and cook, what to freeze for later.  The tree outside the house is full of blossom and birds and there were birds in the back garden picking up dry grass to go and build nests this morning.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 13, 2020, 11:51:45 AM
I know, Tupp. I don't watch scarey films, but it feels like we are in one sometimes.

One of my sons is taking only minor precautions, still doing some socializing with his partners (large) family, still shopping in stores instead of deliveries. He has a lot of health issues, so my main feeling is grief. I also know that if he stayed home the way I am, he would probably have a flare up of his illness unless he medicated to the point of non functioning. In spite of how this life suits me, the realities outside my door are enough to bring me to my knees.

Yesterday I walked outside (because the weather was finally clear!) and, like you, sorting and planning meals does help. Did some baking and although I had to push myself to do it, it was surprisingly cathartic. I am forcing myself to not put off little household chores since "they aren't going anywhere", the rhythm helps. I have a couple of big projects, sorting photos and sorting genealogy work, that I'm finally organized enough to begin.

Hope you have a peaceful day today!

CB

Oh CB, I've got photos and geneology work I want to get on with as well!  It's those sort of things you don't get time for, isn't it?

It's very difficult when someone has health problems that will get worse if they stay in, to balance that with the risk of going out.  And difficult when your kids are too big to send to their rooms until everything's back to normal :) A friend has two autistic teenagers and they've been going out for three hour walks every day, because staying in for them has such a negative impact on their health.  It's a difficult balance to get right.

Yes I've done some food sorting and had a nap.  It seems to just gather up in a wave every few days, I know you said you've been experiencing similar.  So I'll carry on pottering through the evening and hopefully will feel better tomorrow.

I'm glad you got to go out for a walk and got some baking done xx xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on April 13, 2020, 12:25:27 PM
Hope this isn't indelicate, but I was fascinated at college when I learned that remarkable fact that it would be common for many girls in a dormitory building (or on the same floor, can't remember) to gradually become synchronized to the same menstrual cycle. True! (I don't recall synchronized cramps, thank heaven, but we prolly had them.) Nature is so amazing.

I was just laughing (sort of) to myself...how is it that sometimes some of us seem to get blue at the same time?

I had a big wave of it last night. No new or external reason, just that I connected to the big losses and perhaps-permanent social change in a deeper way. Will this ever be eradicated or just continue to sweep merrily through humanity until all is changed? Felt quite lonely and aware of being alone. Even though I'd had dinner with M, we only see each other 2-3 times a week these days. He's still doing academic stuff at a great clip.

What I miss most acutely is my women friends. Oh the days when everyone could come over easily, not angst about life and death in the process, hang out indoors OR out, and just do that. We had a big storm last night. BTW, I'm very grateful we can visit or take walks outdoors now, but am already a bit anxious about a second wave in fall/winter. If THAT happens, when it's cold outdoors, I'll have a tougher time, I think. Then again, I always fear winter depression and always seem to weather it somehow, and it's normally not as bad as I fear. Dunno how it'll be in pandemic times.

My plan is as soon as things dry enough, to start reaching out to get more friends "booked" for backyard visits. I will continue to social distance very seriously but if it's unsafe sitting apart at 8 feet outdoors, I just may take that risk anyway. Could add wearing a mask, which I haven't done so far. That's how much I need the contact. Articles paint variations of what's safe to do. Hermetically seal yourself off on the one hand, stay 25 masked feet apart on walks on the other. I guess all we can do is what seems rational but humane and based on the majority of reliable sources, averaged?

I'm sure this mood will lift and shift and soon I'll be raving about baby kale. But it helped to vent it here (sorry for the hijack, Tupp).

HUGS. Dammnit. I miss hugs!

Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on April 13, 2020, 01:14:25 PM
Hops:

I feel out of sync with everyone else's down moods, fwiw.

Tupp..... I'm sorry the system is so focused on dollars.  I wonder if there's really karma attached to the choices we make.  I assume there is. I feel there is.  I personally have instant karma.  Always have.

I assume some people have very slow karma.  Are there people who escape karma, I wonder?

Sorry you're feeling down, Hops.  We had a storm last night too.  It's breezy, warm and sunny today.  I'm going outside to see what I can get into.  I have a nasty case of poison ivy on my right wrist.

Lighter



Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 13, 2020, 01:33:51 PM
Hope this isn't indelicate, but I was fascinated at college when I learned that remarkable fact that it would be common for many girls in a dormitory building (or on the same floor, can't remember) to gradually become synchronized to the same menstrual cycle. True! (I don't recall synchronized cramps, thank heaven, but we prolly had them.) Nature is so amazing.

I was just laughing (sort of) to myself...how is it that sometimes some of us seem to get blue at the same time?

I had a big wave of it last night. No new or external reason, just that I connected to the big losses and perhaps-permanent social change in a deeper way. Will this ever be eradicated or just continue to sweep merrily through humanity until all is changed? Felt quite lonely and aware of being alone. Even though I'd had dinner with M, we only see each other 2-3 times a week these days. He's still doing academic stuff at a great clip.

What I miss most acutely is my women friends. Oh the days when everyone could come over easily, not angst about life and death in the process, hang out indoors OR out, and just do that. We had a big storm last night. BTW, I'm very grateful we can visit or take walks outdoors now, but am already a bit anxious about a second wave in fall/winter. If THAT happens, when it's cold outdoors, I'll have a tougher time, I think. Then again, I always fear winter depression and always seem to weather it somehow, and it's normally not as bad as I fear. Dunno how it'll be in pandemic times.

My plan is as soon as things dry enough, to start reaching out to get more friends "booked" for backyard visits. I will continue to social distance very seriously but if it's unsafe sitting apart at 8 feet outdoors, I just may take that risk anyway. Could add wearing a mask, which I haven't done so far. That's how much I need the contact. Articles paint variations of what's safe to do. Hermetically seal yourself off on the one hand, stay 25 masked feet apart on walks on the other. I guess all we can do is what seems rational but humane and based on the majority of reliable sources, averaged?

I'm sure this mood will lift and shift and soon I'll be raving about baby kale. But it helped to vent it here (sorry for the hijack, Tupp).

HUGS. Dammnit. I miss hugs!

Hops

No hijacking there, Hopsie, that's exactly how I'm feeling!  I'm missing hugs and the kids coming round to tell me what they did at school, and petting all the cats (a lot of people are keeping their pets in, just in case), seeing the friendly faces at the library and the cinema, just our regular contacts with people and easy interactions.  We were going to have friends over for Easter and go to visit friends this week; obviously those haven't happened.  I'm missing Dance Church and was sitting out on the step just now in the afternoon sun thinking how nice it would be today to make up a picnic and go to the beach.  I'm missing those things.  And yes, not knowing what comes next.  Will this always be a risk?  Will they control this one, only for another one to pop up and take its place?  Not thinking about it consciously, but I'm aware it's there.  And yes, there's a balance to be drawn between doing nothing and going nowhere and taking care not to pick anything up.  It's a bit of a dance, I think, and one to make decisions about as we go along.  I'm not feeling that I want to go out at the minute; we've 11,000 officially dead now and another 4,000 allegedly who've died in care homes so haven't been added to the total count yet.  There is a clear feeling that the media and the government are not being honest, which is adding to the people carrying on as normal when they should be staying home more.  There are apparently mass graves being dug in Kent at the moment, to accommodate all the corpses from London.  It hasn't featured in any of the main papers, though, it was a small news item on a local station.  But numerous people are reporting not being able to bury their loved ones because they can't find space to put the bodies or anyone to take them from the morgue to the site.  It's horrifying stuff.  So yes, a collective wave of grief and sorrow is perfectly possible, I think.

And the menstrual thing is true!  When I first left home I shared a flat with four other girls.  We'd been living together for six months but were never in at the same time due to work, social commitments and so on, so there was this one rare evening when we were all home and sitting out on the balcony drinking beer - and we discovered that we were all on at the same time.  We'd just all synced up since moving in together.  Menstrual cycles are funny things.

I spoke to my sister and my mum is being her usual vile self.  That is another positive; she has completely vanquished any desire or feeling of duty I had to reach out to her if need be.  If a global pandemic doesn't make her buck her ideas up a bit then there really is no more anyone can do.

Hopefully we will all be feeling a bit more positive again tomorrow.  I am still feeling very grateful for my little house, my fridge full of food, my son coping as well as he is and the fact that the weather is nice at the moment.  The line is full of washing and the next load is ready to go on tomorrow.  I'm glad I'm not having to cart it to the launderette.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 13, 2020, 01:37:05 PM
Hops:

I feel out of sync with everyone else's down moods, fwiw.

Tupp..... I'm sorry the system is so focused on dollars.  I wonder if there's really karma attached to the choices we make.  I assume there is. I feel there is.  I personally have instant karma.  Always have.

I assume some people have very slow karma.  Are there people who escape karma, I wonder?

Sorry you're feeling down, Hops.  We had a storm last night too.  It's breezy, warm and sunny today.  I'm going outside to see what I can get into.  I have a nasty case of poison ivy on my right wrist.

Lighter

Lighter, you must be doing your moods the other way around :)  The yin and yang if that's the one about balance?  You're balancing out our grumpiness by not being grumpy lol.

I've never felt there is karma?  I've always known really nice, kind people get done over and people who do horrible things suffer no ill effects from it.  It's a weird thing.  I've always kind of felt you get more rewards for being an arsehole.  I still don't want to be one, though :)  Lol.

I hope the poison ivy clears up, can you put anything on it or do you just have to wait for it to go on its own?  I hope you get to do some good moss work today and some fun time in the garden xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on April 13, 2020, 02:11:18 PM
Thanks, Tupp.
You always create perspective and I appreciate it.
It's got to be terrible, on a small island country.
I hope it soon passes.
I even found myself glad Boris the Buffoon survived.

I read something just now that made me feel a lot better.
It's evidence based, yet supports the emotional/spiritual recovery
by literally telling you how. Even with physical distancing, we can
counteract the effects of so much less touch and usual interaction.
I found this very illuminating and hopeful:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/how-social-distancing-could-ultimately-teach-us-how-to-be-less-lonely/2020/03/20/ca459804-694e-11ea-9923-57073adce27c_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/how-social-distancing-could-ultimately-teach-us-how-to-be-less-lonely/2020/03/20/ca459804-694e-11ea-9923-57073adce27c_story.html)

One thing M and I have done consistently is specifically follow the recommendations
of trusted experts. (If Trump fires Fauci I may have to commit presicide.) Since
for all M's complaining about wanting more intimacy he's usually the first to exit a
hug, he's busted! I told him he can sing Happy Birthday twice through into my
ear in order to endure it. Hee.

Lighter, sorry about the itches but so pleased to hear you're drawing from your
wonderful well of connection with the outdoors, with beauty and with moss.

You are doing exactly what I KNOW will make me feel better too as I get back to it.
I have a safely-distancing helper coming tomorrow to help me fill pots, rearrange
heavy stuff, and weed, etc. to make my sweet sunny side patio a lot more pleasant.
I've ignored it for a couple of years and it is a lovely place to be. I have enough
seeds and bulbs to cheer it up, and someone is dropping off some free pachysandra
today. All will be well out there!

And I look forward to reviewing my little veggie plots later today.

Hugs,
Hops


Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: CB123 on April 13, 2020, 10:15:48 PM
Oh, Hops, when I saw you wrote Pachysandra, I got hot and cold flashes.

Someone gave me some free pachysandra once and I cussed them up one side and down the other by the next year. Pacysandra is lovely and very invasive. It is a ground cover that spreads by tubes underground so once it has a foothold, there is no getting rid of it and it will take over your whole yard.
Not telling you what to do, but......

CB
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on April 14, 2020, 12:26:38 AM
Eeeeerrrkk.

You have a good point, Lighter.
I do have a huge tree that could use a nice shady ground cover, and a long mulberry row that's shady underneath too. And...a big yard.

But I'm not into chasing an invader forevermore. Maybe there's a better one (these were/will be free though.) I can pass them to someone else if need be.

Still think I should avoid it? I've heard the stories!

thanks,
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 14, 2020, 07:21:26 AM
Woke up feeling much better today - more energy, much calmer, much happier.  It's weird how it ebbs and flows like that.  But .......... I'm finding my tolerance level for other people is even lower than normal?  Perhaps I've got so used to just being quiet at home that any little thing is bothering me more.  But the Facebook group I offered to help out with (for people with disabled kids who are suddenly having to have them home 24/7) is becoming problematic, more because the lady who set it up seems to keep finding problems that don't (to me) seem to actually exist or be a problem just yet.  She's also set up multiple group chats which I just find very confusing and difficult to follow (and unnecessary).  So have switched that off again for today and might not switch it on tomorrow :)  Lol xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 14, 2020, 08:33:31 AM
Just pondering (which I have time to do at the moment!) and it occurs to me that drama only tends to unfold when I try or offer to help people.  The conflicts over my son are all about helping him.  But just this recent thing with the Facebook group (which isn't a big drama, I just don't have any urge to get myself involved) is only about me helping others.  I'm not in the group for my own sake - I don't have any problems with son being home, I like it!  I offered to help out if other people needed help.  So I don't need to be a part of it.  And as I think back over many situations over time they are often about other people having problems that I get myself involved in, sometimes unwittingly.  Ummm.  Something to keep in mind, I think.  The being at home, quiet, without people, is suiting me very much.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on April 14, 2020, 08:56:12 AM
Ahhhh, Facebook.
I really loathe it and am very glad I boycotted.
Nothing superior in that, I would've gotten sucked in daily, I'm positive.
But I do loathe it, and think we CAN live without it.

I know it's a good engine for multiple people to talk at once, basically.
And I know it's been a facilitator for good things too. But there it is.

Rant over.

So glad you're seeing that getting pulled in to pointless FB activities
is a time suck and not rewarding. Bravo to you on this!

There's been so much social science evidence that in the aggregate,
FB increases loneliness and undermines community. I know people who
react as though something was organized on FB, it's somehow going to
be the coolest and most effective activity going. Yet so many times...

Meanwhile, other social justice/improvement organizations are doing
their thing, often in a much deeper way.

I know it's never going away but I wouldn't mind if it did.

Grumpily,
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 14, 2020, 08:59:50 AM
Ahhhh, Facebook.
I really loathe it and am very glad I boycotted.
Nothing superior in that, I would've gotten sucked in daily, I'm positive.
But I do loathe it, and think we CAN live without it.

I know it's a good engine for multiple people to talk at once, basically.
And I know it's been a facilitator for good things too. But there it is.

Rant over.

So glad you're seeing that getting pulled in to pointless FB activities
is a time suck and not rewarding. Bravo to you on this!

There's been so much social science evidence that in the aggregate,
FB increases loneliness and undermines community. I know people who
react as though something was organized on FB, it's somehow going to
be the coolest and most effective activity going. Yet so many times...

Meanwhile, other social justice/improvement organizations are doing
their thing, often in a much deeper way.

I know it's never going away but I wouldn't mind if it did.

Grumpily,
Hops

Lol, I'll join you in the grumpiness, Hops!  I do tend to only use for keeping up with things that are going on - education stuff, disability rights, environmental stuff I'm interested in and so on.  Which is what the group is, set up as a temporary thing to help people during this mad time we are in.  And some of it's good - there's a big volunteer group locally and loads of people have been helped by that so some things are positive.  But yes, I offered to help and it is about helping others - but the lady who runs it, although she is very nice, does seem to take things to the nth degree and go looking for problems that just aren't there.  So yep, switched it off and no desire to switch it back on just now either :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 14, 2020, 12:21:16 PM
Mmmm well that was interesting, I got another email from her about the same issue and it really triggered me.  I'm not entirely sure why.  I kind of feel that, as nice and kind as she is, that she also has a thing about being in control and is keen to write rules, codes of practice and that sort of thing.  The original issue wasn't really that clear; I read it twice and didn't understand what exactly the problem was, asked her to clarify and it's basically an imaginary problem that might come up at some point far in the future that she wants to sort of stop from happening by writing a new rule.  I pointed out that there is already a rule that would stop that problem from being a problem, she said people might ignore that rule, I said if they ignore that rule there's nothing to stop them from ignoring the new one as well - do you see where the spiral is going?  Kind of like an apple peel - I don't really get why she wants to involve other people in the decision making process as she seems to make up her mind, ask other people what they think and then ignore people who don't agree with her anyway, added to which when she asked me to help it was just to do admin tasks if she wasn't around (like accept new members for example, rather than leaving them hanging, as they might be wanting to join because they need support.).  It wasn't about making joint decisions about all sorts of various things; I stopped helping her out with the other group for exactly the same reason.

It was just odd because it really, really triggered me; I felt very angry, very panicky and very unheard.  I've asked her to take me off the admin side of things because, I don't know, there's something about the way she does things that really unnerves me.  She can be very sweet, very kind and very helpful to people, but also seems to over egg the pudding - is that a phrase you use in the States?  Just seems to create problems where there aren't any sometimes and seems to want to pull other people in with her.

Lockdown madness to some extent, I'm sure, on both sides probably, but I am enjoying my little calm, serene bubble I've got here with son at the moment so I don't want other things raining on my parade.  Off to start cooking dinner now and hopefully calm down a bit :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 14, 2020, 04:13:47 PM
Just rambling again as I like to write things down as they occur to me, but I realised that, whatever the situation, my body is giving me good signals and it doesn't really matter what else is going on, I know myself well enough by now to know that when those alarm bells start ringing, just walk away until they go quiet again :)  xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on April 14, 2020, 05:27:42 PM
Absolooooootly, Tupp!
I think you're doing a brilliant job of noticing things, tuning into your own intuition and your own body, and reacting very very appropriately here. Bravo!

Your question to her was the adult question. SO spot on. And refusing to join her invisible cadre of slaves, I mean volunteers, was SO wise.

I have a hunch, fwiw. As you describe her she reminds me of many bright, charming, oh-so-kind women who wind up heading nonprofits. It's a generalization....but I think in the same way that some ego issues and some yearnings to control others, can often surface in charitable settings.

Because how could anyone resist a request, much less look candidly at someone so eager to lead where there is a need? So....most people just feel a little shove in the back to cooperate, and go along, and give that inestimable person whatever they want.

I think you are very acute in what you see...and it doesn't mean she's any kind of monster at all (she's likely unaware of her own process or what drives it, and does still intend well)....but there's a WHIFF, quite detectable by the observant, of something toxic there.

I'm so delighted for you! You scented it, thought about it, spoke up like an adult about it, and backed away from it.

BRAVO! You amaze me. You learn things so deeply and act on them.

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on April 14, 2020, 05:54:28 PM
Tupp:

My poison Ivy is better bc of a prescribed med my sister brought last year....Fluocinonide ointment.  The bumps went right down.  Now there's a patch on left hand.  This med works great but will prolly give me whiskers or something worse.

Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 14, 2020, 06:13:40 PM
Tupp:

My poison Ivy is better bc of a prescribed med my sister brought last year....Fluocinonide ointment.  The bumps went right down.  Now there's a patch on left hand.  This med works great but will prolly give me whiskers or something worse.

Lighter

Lol, Lighter, I've got whiskers due to not being able to get a wax for four weeks now so we will be whiskered together!  Lol, I'm glad it's clearing up quickly and hope it doesn't come back :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 14, 2020, 06:21:40 PM
Absolooooootly, Tupp!
I think you're doing a brilliant job of noticing things, tuning into your own intuition and your own body, and reacting very very appropriately here. Bravo!

Your question to her was the adult question. SO spot on. And refusing to join her invisible cadre of slaves, I mean volunteers, was SO wise.

I have a hunch, fwiw. As you describe her she reminds me of many bright, charming, oh-so-kind women who wind up heading nonprofits. It's a generalization....but I think in the same way that some ego issues and some yearnings to control others, can often surface in charitable settings.

Because how could anyone resist a request, much less look candidly at someone so eager to lead where there is a need? So....most people just feel a little shove in the back to cooperate, and go along, and give that inestimable person whatever they want.

I think you are very acute in what you see...and it doesn't mean she's any kind of monster at all (she's likely unaware of her own process or what drives it, and does still intend well)....but there's a WHIFF, quite detectable by the observant, of something toxic there.

I'm so delighted for you! You scented it, thought about it, spoke up like an adult about it, and backed away from it.

BRAVO! You amaze me. You learn things so deeply and act on them.

Hugs
Hops

Aw thanks Hops!  It threw me that I had such a strong reaction but you are right, your body does respond, it's like Spidey senses kicking in.  She is a genuinely nice lady and I do think her intentions are honourable and genuine, but there's just something about the way she does things.  She did something similar last week, sent me something to ask me what I thought of it, it made no sense and when I asked her more I don't think she really knew either?  It just wastes a lot of time and energy.  So yes, time to step out and leave others to get on with it now :)  xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on April 14, 2020, 06:34:59 PM
Tupp:

They say help is the sunny side of control.

I'm sure this woman organizing help is like the rest of us.  Stress making things harder....ego popping up.....living in the future.....that's her problem.  Not yours.  I'm glad you recognized her imaginary make work of worrying.....and declined to drawn in. 

Hops:
 I look forward to a patio and garden update.  Pots are a joy to plant and care for if you're in that headspace.

Today my new moss friend called and invited herself and lovely husband over.  I wasn't really in the mood but thought that would change when they got here.

I never noticed she has dreadlocks.  Or how slender her hubby is.  I didn't warm to the playdate.  I was relieved to see them go.

That's what I remember about the visit.....and that I gave her a half tub of amazing roof moss....so pretty and happily full of sporophytes from recent rains.

There was a day last week I would have enjoyed planting that very special moss with her.  It didn't cross my mind today. 

Lighter


Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on April 14, 2020, 07:02:02 PM
Quote
I never noticed she has dreadlocks.  Or how slender her hubby is.  I didn't warm to the playdate.


There's no connection between the first two sentences and the third, is there? I can't fathom one. Just struck me oddly.

Thanks for the planting encouragement! I do look forward to answering the call of outdoors. It's been waaaaay too long.

Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 15, 2020, 03:03:36 AM
Tupp:

They say help is the sunny side of control.

I'm sure this woman organizing help is like the rest of us.  Stress making things harder....ego popping up.....living in the future.....that's her problem.  Not yours.  I'm glad you recognized her imaginary make work of worrying.....and declined to drawn in. 

Hops:
 I look forward to a patio and garden update.  Pots are a joy to plant and care for if you're in that headspace.

Today my new moss friend called and invited herself and lovely husband over.  I wasn't really in the mood but thought that would change when they got here.

I never noticed she has dreadlocks.  Or how slender her hubby is.  I didn't warm to the playdate.  I was relieved to see them go.

That's what I remember about the visit.....and that I gave her a half tub of amazing roof moss....so pretty and happily full of sporophytes from recent rains.

There was a day last week I would have enjoyed planting that very special moss with her.  It didn't cross my mind today. 

Lighter

Lighter, 'help is the sunny side of control' is a very good saying and one I am going to hang on to!  Yes, it's absolutely that.  I think when helping people - especially groups like that - it's easy to fall into micro managing and trying to prevent every single problem that might ever arise.  I think there's also a tendency to overlook the fact that it's Facebook - group rules have no legal standing and are really just polite requests for people not to behave like arseholes.  You can't really stop people doing things they shouldn't if they want to and other than chucking them out of the group there isn't anything you can deter them with either.  There's also no privacy on the internet either, and I think people forget that.  Anything you post can be taken and shared without your consent, and edited to change the content or context as well.  It's extreme, but it's the truth so the only way to make sure something you say doesn't get back to the person you're saying it about is not to say it in the first place!  I think endlessly planning for the future helps her to feel in control - for me it gives a false sense of control and just takes up time and energy unnecessarily.

I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the neighbours coming over!  Were you just not in the mood or did hubby coming over change the dynamic?  I find I have a better time with my female friends when their husbands aren't there.  It just flows better, I don't know why.  I'm sure she'd have liked all the moss though :)  Hopefully you'll feel better next time you see her xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 15, 2020, 11:19:55 AM
Thanks, CB, yes, I know, this is what I was saying to her, nothing on the internet is private, the two things just don't go together.  I do sometimes think I ought to go through my posts on here to make sure there's nothing identifying but I think there must be thousands by now?  It seems like a monumental challenge.  Lol.

I have been a bit rocked by how bad I felt today.  I've not felt this bad since before I started EMDR.  I'm still not quite sure why she triggered quite so much in me - on the surface it wasn't a big deal and I dealt with it quickly.  But it has affected me hugely and that's bothered me.  I have forced myself up and out of my chair to do dinner, though, and get on with a bit of tidying up and check a few emails.  Hopefully I'll sleep better tonight and feel better tomorrow xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on April 15, 2020, 01:04:24 PM
Hey Tupp,

Do you think these feelings have anything to do with saying (or deciding) No?

I don't know. Just a thought that popped up.

Hugs and comfort,
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 15, 2020, 01:35:40 PM
Tupp,
I get you.

I use facebook a lot--I keep track of a lot of things going on in the floral industry, other art (including some rather obscure artists that I love), books, music, news sites from all over the world,and--oh,yeah--friends and family! I dont have a lot of people on my friends list, and I have just a few pages that I follow that are member only. Less all the time. When people start getting annoying on those pages, I just unfollow. Sometimes its the moderator and sometimes the posters. It's like the old days of VESMB where we had a mix of really interesting, articulate posters and some real doozies.

I left 2 pages this week--one that I had just joined and saw immediately that it wasnt going to be a good fit, and one that I've been on for years that talks about succulents and there was some kind of kerfuffle about 2 people identifying the succulent differently (good grief! we are in the middle of a pandemic, for gods sake) and I just unfollowed. Life's too short.

So, take it all with a grain of salt and see if you can figure out why this particular interaction unnerved you. It's a safe place to dissect those feelings--you dont ever have to interact with the person again and they dont matter anyway. But the feelings are real and they are important to look at and see why you feel derailed.

Its funny to think that I have known you all for all these years and we dont know each other's names, or what we look like, or until recently, where anyone lives.

CB

CB, that's exactly the same for me, I find Facebook handy to follow people I'm in to, groups for disability related stuff (it's just handy for changes to legislation and that sort of thing), I tend to keep groups muted so that I'm in them but they don't come up on my newsfeed because yes, like you say, I've genuinely seen two people have the most enormous heated row over whether or not it was appropriate to use a colon.  The drama is endless and pointless so I tend to keep it on quiet until I need to look something up and then I can just scroll through until I find the bit I need and ignore it all again.

And yes, I agree, I know all of you on here better than I know anyone else and you certainly all know more about me than anyone else does, but I could pass you in the street and not know.  Although I do have a picture in my mind of what everyone looks like but obviously have no idea if it's right!  It would be so funny if it is.  Dr G is the obvious exception as I've seen his picture and he did look like I imagined he would!

I am a bit stumped as to why it affected me so much.  I do think lockdown is intensifying things, for obvious reasons, but to be honest I've found the EMDR  so helpful that I really thought those massive reactions to small things were behind me.  But perhaps nothing is as we expect at the moment.  The good thing is I found a short yoga sequence for suffering and the release from doing that was so huge that I was shaking.  So whatever it was, the yoga shook it out so I've bookmarked that for another time.  Dinner is cooking, I did get my bum into gear enough to tidy up so I think dinner, bath and bed for me tonight and I should feel better tomorrow. xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 15, 2020, 01:42:49 PM
Hey Tupp,

Do you think these feelings have anything to do with saying (or deciding) No?

I don't know. Just a thought that popped up.

Hugs and comfort,
Hops

I don't know, Hops, it might be, I'm just not getting that lightbulb moment with it, it feels like a real mystery.  I will have to get Scooby Doo on the case :)  Lol.  I have been thinking that I feel a bit like she manipulates the situation, very subtly, so I didn't really notice it until I was well inside - that analogy of putting the frog in cold water and then it doesn't notice you heating it up, you know?  It started as a temporary group to help parents through this mad time we're in with possibly a small amount of admin just as a back up if she couldn't manage it - and within a couple of weeks I was finding my heart sinking every time I checked my messages because there was one thing after another coming in, none of them necessary or relevant (in my opinion) and far removed from what I think is helpful to people - which to me is kind of saying, okay, what can I do to help and then doing that if possible. Really all it's been so far is some hand holding for parents with younger children who are still getting their heads around their children's disabilities, never mind suddenly having to cope with this - just a bit of reassurance and an offer of a phone chat or email if they need to vent a bit.  Which I'm perfectly happy to do, I've been emailing a few who were struggling just to say hi, how you doing, and they're doing alright now.  But ironically the lady running the group has taken up more of my time with her unnecessary admin related stuff than any of the parents who needed a bit of help which is obviously the wrong way round.  So yep, I'm not entirely sure, I just feel I suddenly found myself in a situation I didn't want to be in.  But - the yoga has helped and a nice dinner is always welcome.  I think I will feel better tomorrow :)  Thank you xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on April 15, 2020, 01:51:14 PM
Hmmm.

Maybe some part of your psyche was feeling almost "groomed" by the kind lady (who may be absolutely unaware she is somewhat manipulative, or using others to play out some unrecognized inner need of her own).

If that's something like it, it would make perfect sense to me that the exchange could set off old bells of anxiety.

So happy you found a yoga thing to help you get the feelings up and out, even if the thoughts or analysis doesn't fully bloom until later (if it's even worth using your time on). Doesn't matter, as long as you know you are still safe. And still capable of comforting and kind-ing yourself through surprise shakings.

They'll still happen now and then, or they sure do to me. But you're still competent, and growing moreso all the time.

Two steps forward + one step back = FORWARD.

Hugs,
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 16, 2020, 02:49:57 AM
Hmmm.

Maybe some part of your psyche was feeling almost "groomed" by the kind lady (who may be absolutely unaware she is somewhat manipulative, or using others to play out some unrecognized inner need of her own).

If that's something like it, it would make perfect sense to me that the exchange could set off old bells of anxiety.

So happy you found a yoga thing to help you get the feelings up and out, even if the thoughts or analysis doesn't fully bloom until later (if it's even worth using your time on). Doesn't matter, as long as you know you are still safe. And still capable of comforting and kind-ing yourself through surprise shakings.

They'll still happen now and then, or they sure do to me. But you're still competent, and growing moreso all the time.

Two steps forward + one step back = FORWARD.

Hugs,
Hops

Thanks, Hopsie :)  I won't dwell on it but it will murmur away I expect.  I don't think she realises what she's doing at all, but to me there are hints there that these groups she runs are more about her than other people.  Little things have popped up for me since it started that I ignored because I wasn't involved in all of it in any real way (to my mind).  She's very focused on how she wants the group to be rather than helping people get what they need or cope with the situation they're in.  One of the things that's frustrated me endlessly over the years is that son and I have been offered help that wasn't actually helpful.  It's been almost impossible to get real help, because in most circumstances someone else has decided what will be helpful, rather than asking you what you need.  It reminds me of Dr G's book and about therapy not necessarily being that helpful, because someone else has decided what help you need, instead of someone building a relationship with you so you can trust them and them then helping you get where you want to be.

I think what I've really brought out of it is that I'm not going to offer to help people any more.  Not in a miserly, unkind way, but because too often I end up wishing I hadn't done it.  I'm going to focus on myself and son and look at how I can take the skills I have learnt over the years and turn them into something I can make a living out of.  I'm still happy to help out people who are close to me and my son, obviously, but I think you need some bad arse boundaries to just offer yourself out as 'I'm here, I'm available' and for me, there are too many ways that people can seep through those boundaries, because they can do it in that very subtle, unobtrusive way.  So the drawbridge is up now, son and I are happy and content in our bubble so we'll stay inside it :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 16, 2020, 06:45:14 AM
I'm going to just witter on rather than letting thoughts tumble about in my head through the day (and I'm enormously grateful that I have you guys here to do that with!).  Something that strikes me about my desire to help is, I think, still linked to rescuing younger Tupp - not child Tupp, but certainly Tupp as a single mum with a little one who wasn't developing the way he was expected to.  I would have loved, and benefited hugely from, someone like me now, who had been through the whole thing, figured it out along the way, who could have listened to my concerns, talked things through with me and pointed me in the right direction (or at least pointed out possible pitfalls that I was unaware of).  In much the same way that I benefit so much from having you guys here so that I can vent a bit, bounce around ideas, take in your observations, which are always helpful to me in some way or other, I would have loved to have had a 'special needs parent' who could have held my hand a bit through the sticky patches, but also reminded me that it was okay to be a bit crap myself and not give myself a hard time if I messed up a bit.

And I think that's where I fall in to a difficult pattern sometimes.  I want to help, but I don't enjoy helping people who don't try to help themselves - that whole helping/enabling thing is still something I find difficult to manage, as well as my own codependency issues raising their head when that happens.  I also don't want to have to manage the behaviour of other 'helpful' people, as evidenced by the very nice lady who has driven me mad over the last couple of days.

So that brings me to focus more on what I ought to do, and I think it might be a better idea to write a book or series of articles, or do podcasts/videos/blogs, whatever seems to work best, that can kind of melt together the various things I've learnt over the years that might be helpful to other people if they're just at the beginning of the process.  That way I can feel like I've helped, but I only need to do it once and if people want to use it, they can do so without me getting involved.  And do it more like a signposting exercise - if you want to learn more about the way your child's brain processes sound, these are the basics and if you want to look into it more then these websites are helpful and so are these books.  Just sort of explaining the basics and then pointing people in the right direction, to do what they want with.  That might tick my boxes without me having a meltdown about it all.

I think with me it's also about feeling in control.  I am enjoying being in control of my own time at the moment - not being dominated by college start times, bus timetables, needing to get x, y and z done before collecting son, having to get so and so finished before dinner because we have to eat at x time because if we don't there's no time to do y before it's time for bed.  It's been nice to watch the day unfold and do what feels best at the right times.  So other people sticking their own needs in to my time - the friend who was unpleasant about older people dying, the one who wants to complain about her boyfriend as if she's fifteen, the one who wants to discuss a problem that isn't a big problem and hasn't even happened whilst we're in the middle of a pandemic that is killing people at a rate of a thousand a day here - doesn't sit well with me, especially when it leaves me feeling bad.  So I think I need to be more proactive about my time, even though I have more of it at the moment than I ever remember having before!  It's still precious and I should still be filling it with things that are helpful to me and that make me feel good, rather than letting other people use it.  I think it's almost a bit like lending money to people?  I rarely do it, as a rule, because it ruins relationships if it isn't returned when it should be.  I think time's just as precious, if not more so, so I shouldn't be dishing out my time freely the way I do.

I think that's all for now!  I'll ramble on a bit more later on :)  Lol, hope everyone is having a nice day and thank you all for being there :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 16, 2020, 09:54:10 AM
More wittering!  I feel that I should rename the thread, 'Tupp's Stream of Consciousness' :)  Lol

When I had my mini meltdown and all those old feelings and responses came back I felt sad, disappointed, concerned that the EMDR hadn't worked and so on.  What I think I need to do (and Lighter, this is something that you talk about a lot as well) is to see those meltdown moments as a signal or an indication that something isn't right and I need to work out what.  So instead of focusing on it being 'wrong' (which is what I've spent the last two days doing), what's actually helped is (a) recognising that my body recognises a threat, even if I don't, and trusting in that response (I think I did do that, I knew it was a sign there was a problem, but I took the problem to be with the way I reacted to something, rather than taking the problem to be the person who caused the reaction); (b) try to work out who, what or why the trigger came and what it was trying to tell me (which again, I think I kind of have, I still don't feel certain but I do feel that I was being manipulated/taken for granted and I do feel that a lot of her stuff comes from a need to control and that makes me uncomfortable) and (c) looking to see if it's the universe/my instinct/some obvious source trying to tell me to do something else, or shove me down a different path.  After I wrote the stuff earlier about maybe writing a book about all the things I think might help people instead of randomly scattering information across Facebook and at groups, I just almost instantly felt calmer.  It's been a couple of hours now and all those physical and emotional feelings have just gone.  Kind of the way they do in EMDR, but EMDR is quicker :)  Which makes me think that writing something useful about it all is the right thing to do and some little thing inside me knows that, and had to keep kicking up a big fuss to make me notice it.

Hippy dippy gobbledeegook I know, but it kind of makes sense to me - I'm not sure if it would to anyone else, though!  Lol xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on April 16, 2020, 02:31:59 PM
Makes sense to me, Tupp.
I think you've made total sense throughout your telling of this situation.
Total.

Writing a guide as you suggest is a wonderful idea.
From life in publishing I'm not sure it will make you a living but it can surely make you find purpose and meaning, and a great way to fulfill your desire to help others without draining your liveliness.

Champ job, you!

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on April 17, 2020, 08:59:47 AM
Hey Tupp,

Do you think these feelings have anything to do with saying (or deciding) No?

I don't know. Just a thought that popped up.

Hugs and comfort,
Hops

I don't know, Hops, it might be, I'm just not getting that lightbulb moment with it, it feels like a real mystery.  I will have to get Scooby Doo on the case :)  Lol.  I have been thinking that I feel a bit like she manipulates the situation, very subtly, so I didn't really notice it until I was well inside - that analogy of putting the frog in cold water and then it doesn't notice you heating it up, you know? For me, it's a matter of making peace with rejecting a part of the situation or relationship with the lady or her mission vs the mission you feel called to..... helping people with the group to help parents.... but then having a reaction to the manipulation.... and when we're upset it's difficult to separate things with clarity, IME.  Rejecting the woman and the way she operates maybe feels like you're rejecting the group and it's goals, but it's not the same thing, IME. 

Radical acceptance, when it can be managed, is the cure for me in these confusing, upsetting moments.  Sometimes it's SO hard. 

You can help other parents in ways that make more sense to you.  I think you posted about it on another thread and I'm super excited about that, btw. 

I'm snuggled in the loft, catching up on the board, thinking about stretching and doing a bit of yoga, Tupp.  I so want to cultivate a good routine... like I had with martial arts.  I had appointments and kept them always.  You're modeling good habits for me!  Lighter

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 18, 2020, 04:57:32 AM
Makes sense to me, Tupp.
I think you've made total sense throughout your telling of this situation.
Total.

Writing a guide as you suggest is a wonderful idea.
From life in publishing I'm not sure it will make you a living but it can surely make you find purpose and meaning, and a great way to fulfill your desire to help others without draining your liveliness.

Champ job, you!

hugs
Hops

Thanks, Hopsie, I'm glad it made sense to you as well :)  Yes, I'm not expecting to be able to retire on the proceeds but I think even if I write it as a series of leaflets or blog posts, it would just mean I can sort of hand it to someone, instead of having to go through it with different people over and over.  That way I can help in a small way, without having to cope with the issues that accompany it.  I keep thinking of that crazy situation with Buck, that he's the only one with that certain amount of knowledge that they need now.  It's mad that someone didn't record that in some way much sooner.  Not that I'm the only person with this knowledge, obviously, but if I can condense five years of reading into four pages with a list of books to look up if necessary, then that might save someone else a bit of time and stress and just enable them to put their time into doing things that are useful for them, rather than slogging endlessly along paths that lead nowhere, as I have done so many times :) Feeling better now though, still tired but more of a relaxed tired than an exhausted one if that makes sense?  I hope the gardening is going well :)  xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 18, 2020, 05:04:16 AM
Hey Tupp,

Do you think these feelings have anything to do with saying (or deciding) No?

I don't know. Just a thought that popped up.

Hugs and comfort,
Hops

I don't know, Hops, it might be, I'm just not getting that lightbulb moment with it, it feels like a real mystery.  I will have to get Scooby Doo on the case :)  Lol.  I have been thinking that I feel a bit like she manipulates the situation, very subtly, so I didn't really notice it until I was well inside - that analogy of putting the frog in cold water and then it doesn't notice you heating it up, you know? For me, it's a matter of making peace with rejecting a part of the situation or relationship with the lady or her mission vs the mission you feel called to..... helping people with the group to help parents.... but then having a reaction to the manipulation.... and when we're upset it's difficult to separate things with clarity, IME.  Rejecting the woman and the way she operates maybe feels like you're rejecting the group and it's goals, but it's not the same thing, IME. 

Radical acceptance, when it can be managed, is the cure for me in these confusing, upsetting moments.  Sometimes it's SO hard. 

You can help other parents in ways that make more sense to you.  I think you posted about it on another thread and I'm super excited about that, btw. 

I'm snuggled in the loft, catching up on the board, thinking about stretching and doing a bit of yoga, Tupp.  I so want to cultivate a good routine... like I had with martial arts.  I had appointments and kept them always.  You're modeling good habits for me!  Lighter


Ah, Lighter, I like the sound of stretching in the loft!  Yes, I think if we can cultivate good, healthy habits that keep us on track it can help a lot.

Yes, I think I'm better off helping people in my own way.  I feel that the lady, as nice as she is, is running these groups more for her own needs than to help other people.  And it's possible to do both, of course, but I think the way I prefer to do things is more to facilitate, I suppose, and to try to respond to what people need rather than deciding in advance what they need, if that makes sense?  I got an admin notification so she hasn't removed me from that yet even though I asked her to so I logged in to set the notifications to mute - I'm taking the approach that if I can't see it it's not happening :)  I don't want to remove myself because it feels a bit like poking the sleeping bear, as you often put it.  Not that I see her as a bear, it's nowhere near that sort of situation, but I feel it might make her contact me again and I'd rather just try to melt away into the background without anyone noticing.  But I did see she'd put up a 'send me a love heart if you're there for me' post which has resulted in fifty odd people telling her how marvellous she is.  And she is doing a lot of good for a lot of people.  I think I'm just more of a lone shepherd than a flock gatherer, you know?

I am looking forward to you getting your space back, I expect in yourself as well as in your loft! xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 19, 2020, 07:54:07 AM
Still pondering.  I was talking to my sister this morning, about our mum.  It was my sister's birthday yesterday, as usual my mum has made a drama about herself.  It made me think about the years of mad behaviour I've tolerated and/or been affected by through my life and I think that might be why my switch flipped as strongly as it did this week.  I think any sign of someone dealing with their problems by turning them in to my problems is a sign for me to run for the hills now.  I only want to spend time with people who are doing a reasonably good job of dealing with their own crap, young people and people in very extreme situations excepted, but even there I am mindful of building an emotional equivalent of the Great Wall of China and not letting anyone else's situation disturb my own peace too much.

I wondered as well if my old behaviour of not being able to say no and/or being punished or thought badly of if I did might be why I react as strongly as I do.  There's a rush of emotion but I swallow it all instantly.  What I realised is that, when I'm stressed like that, I do things that stress me out more.  I spend more time on the internet or watching crap on TV, eating junk food, drinking coffee, sitting brooding instead of doing something creative or clearing out a cupboard.  And in that moment I can't quite connect with myself well enough to pull myself out of doing that, even though the yoga helps enormously with those sorts of feelings, and so does meditating or just reading or writing about it.  So I think I need to write myself a rescue plan so that next time something like that happens, I drop what I'm doing, abandon the to do list and just make feeling better again and getting all of that negative emotion out my top priority.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on April 19, 2020, 11:07:42 AM
I'm so glad you're thinking about what saying No triggers for you, Tupp. Bravo. Getting comfortable with that so it isn't anxiety producing is Assertiveness 101, and you can
practice it as effectively as all the other ways you've embraced caring for yourself, and the remarkable healing you've done.

Loved your description of the super-kind lady begging for attention and emotional rewards online, but still, unaccountably, not honoring your request to be removed from her admin notifications. Hmmmm. Odd, that.

I also loved your ACTION, of simply muting those. I suppose you COULD contact her one more time with a minimalist message: Just a reminder to please remove me from admin notifications. Thanks. Or not. Might not be worth the bother.

You're weighing decisions against your serenity and picking the latter! So whatever protects and enhances your serenity is a beautiful daily formula. BRAVO, bravo.

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 19, 2020, 12:36:24 PM
I'm so glad you're thinking about what saying No triggers for you, Tupp. Bravo. Getting comfortable with that so it isn't anxiety producing is Assertiveness 101, and you can
practice it as effectively as all the other ways you've embraced caring for yourself, and the remarkable healing you've done.

Loved your description of the super-kind lady begging for attention and emotional rewards online, but still, unaccountably, not honoring your request to be removed from her admin notifications. Hmmmm. Odd, that.

I also loved your ACTION, of simply muting those. I suppose you COULD contact her one more time with a minimalist message: Just a reminder to please remove me from admin notifications. Thanks. Or not. Might not be worth the bother.

You're weighing decisions against your serenity and picking the latter! So whatever protects and enhances your serenity is a beautiful daily formula. BRAVO, bravo.

Hugs
Hops

Thanks, Hops :)  I think I'm going to just leave it mute.  I've had another email from her from her private account (this is another thing that's been bugging me; she has three Facebook groups plus her own personal one, and then she also contacts me via a group and personal email off Facebook as well so just the volume of notifications and emails makes my heart sink sometimes.  A friend of mine is having to set up online lessons for her classes as her school is shut so has spent the Easter holiday wrestling with new technology and hastily re-writing lesson plans and schemes of work.  They had a WhatsApp group so the department could all share their progress and help each other out.  She told me that she stopped working for a tea break yesterday and glanced at her phone to see she had 33 unread messages there - and as she spent her tea break scanning through them only 3 were really necessary or of any importance to her.  Some people just waffle too much).  I'm thinking there are a lot of people now who I would like to just forget I'm here lol, and I guess the one good thing about Facebook is that, if it's the only way someone knows how to get in touch with you, you can easily remove yourself from that :)

There are some rumours murmuring here that they may start opening the schools and non-essential businesses again next month whilst putting the elderly and vulnerable into a suggested six month stay at home programme.  I am finding the idea of another five months of going nowhere and seeing no-one enticing.  I'm not sure whether that should worry me or not!  Lol xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on April 19, 2020, 01:40:05 PM
Ooo, the woman does have tentacles, doesn't she? Good for you for snipping them off.

I hear you about the suggestion of extending it all six months. I know there are big-picture issues, but personally, I think our Western culture went nuts and toxic a long time ago, so if there's a prayer of a chance that this pandemic will turn into the Great Reset, historically anyway, that's the best spin I can put on it.

I've been so surprised how much of an introvert I truly am. Though I chatter like a magpie when I see people. It's the mysterious subtype: Introverted Extrovert.

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 20, 2020, 11:13:30 AM
Ooo, the woman does have tentacles, doesn't she? Good for you for snipping them off.

I hear you about the suggestion of extending it all six months. I know there are big-picture issues, but personally, I think our Western culture went nuts and toxic a long time ago, so if there's a prayer of a chance that this pandemic will turn into the Great Reset, historically anyway, that's the best spin I can put on it.

I've been so surprised how much of an introvert I truly am. Though I chatter like a magpie when I see people. It's the mysterious subtype: Introverted Extrovert.

hugs
Hops

Yes I'm feeling a very similar way, Hopsie, I do like some people (had a chat with a really good friend this morning) but a lot of others are just noise in my life and I'm much preferring my books and my music to all of that.  I'm liking being able to do all sorts of different things during the day rather than just collapsing exhausted half an hour before bed time having done nothing that I wanted to.  It's making a big change for me and I for one want my life to be more like this indefinitely now.  Not all aspects of it obviously, but the nice bits.

I did have a bit of a lightbulb moment earlier on today.  I've been very preoccupied again with friends who I feel have let me down over the years, and this is something that I've really struggled with and has had a great effect on my self esteem and loss of confidence.  I found myself today thinking about a friend I genuinely haven't seen or heard from in a very long time and her departure from my life really caused me a lot of pain and heartache.  I find the rejection genuinely difficult to cope with.  I wasn't sure why I was thinking about it so much just now, because I don't want to be in contact with her again now anyway, but I seemed to have got my head into that loop.  So in the spirit of trying to let things be instead of trying to suppress or ignore them I kind of said to myself, "well tell me what it means and what I need to do about it and I'll do it".  The thoughts have wandered about in my head during the day but I did find myself thinking just now that I can view those friends' departures from my life as a sign that their needs changed.  For some reason that sits better with me than they didn't like me anymore or they didn't care.  I found myself thinking of a pair of trousers that I can't wear anymore.  I still love them but I've put on too much weight for them to fit me so I don't wear them now.  I found I was thinking of those past friendships in that way - that for one reason or another, those friends had needs that changed and I no longer met the need or fit the bill or had a place there with them.  I don't know why but that felt better to me than them rejecting me or not liking me.  And my head suddenly felt a lot calmer as well.  I'm just jotting it down here so I don't forget about it again in the future.  It will be interesting to see if that lays some ghosts to rest or if it's just a temporary reprieve :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on April 20, 2020, 12:36:58 PM
I understand that so much, Tupp.
Dealing with rejection or indifference from a former friend can be excruciating.
You might remember how I wrote for a very long time, over and over, about one friend, A.,  whose intense interest faded into such a blank that I had to go tell her I was withdrawing from the friendship one day. For me, it was the only way to reclaim my sense of self.

I didn't blame her for it, so it wasn't a confrontation. But in that particular case, I felt the need for transparency, to no longer go along and pretend we still had a friendship when the reciprocity had vanished. I felt better after that, but I think in many/most cases, healthier people would release their grip and let a relationship like that go without comment or stating things openly. I guess different responses make sense under different circumstances.

I also realized in hindsight that she was groomed to be charming and doting and warm in your presence, but those were personality things that helped her make her way through her life. They weren't promises to anyone. They were coping mechanisms. At one point she just found a new couple across the street who fit that slot absolutely perfectly for her, and she just dropped me. (Kept up the warm gushy promises of "we must get together" and "I miss you" which confused my little brain for ages, since she never followed through.) Anyway, when I eventually "released" her (in my own head, as she wasn't feeling any obligation in hers) I released ME. In hindsight, I didn't want an "obligation" connection anyway.

My reactions to rejection, particularly from females, have been heavy to process for my entire life. Goes in my case directly back to two things: 1) An N mother who never saw nor comforted me, because she couldn't, so I had a lifelong hunger for female connection, and 2) being bullied all day at school by girls, in a pack. It's one reason I love this Board so much!

So every time a friendship failed or ended it was all those things reactivating, all over again.

Oddly, it's nearly a nonexistent issue for me now. Solid friendships exist, two or three in this community I know are permanent. I just greatly enjoy other interesting women when I meet them or they attend the group I lead, or whatever. Some of those might or might not turn into new friends, but I'm okay whether they do or not. It's a relief. Gets me more into the present with people and out of rumination about my past, or trying to fill holes I've slowly learned to fill myself, and in community.

I think it's all about that lifelong work of actually becoming a friend to myself. Thinking of myself lovingly and making choices as best I can that include self-kindness. If someone's silly enough not to see how much loyalty and compassion I offer in friendship, then they need something different that I'm not the right person to give them. (Esp. a completely take it or leave it superficial relationship. I don't have time for those any more, I like substance.) That's a lot of it too, I think. One reason this board is so fantastic is because y'all are very intelligent and never tire of learning.

Like you, I think a great deal, all day long. I love to laugh and be goofy but I also have a very serious side, questioning meaning and culture and encountering the self at pretty deep levels, because that is what makes life engaging and exciting for me. Women who just have only rote channels, particularly superficial ones about things or shopping or appearance or ever...I just run out of interest myself, sometimes. It helped to see that.

I am deeply fascinated by who people are and how they got that way and how they change over time. And people like you who are so brave, doing that deep observation of self and culture under really difficult circumstances at times, blow me away.

Boy, what a ramble.

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on April 20, 2020, 02:34:29 PM
Tupp:

Reacting to discomfort with negative coping strategies .......yup.  Hard to change for good.  We forget to stop, breathe, get centered then select a better response.  So.etimes we just can't do it.

Yesterday I had a moment, but breathed comically through what had to be done....it calmed me down quickly....the breathing and the laughing at myself.

I fixed the problem and noticed I wasn't upset by the end of it, like I would have been a year ago.

Something about DOING something helpful, while forcing myself to breathe even though I was teetering on fight or flight hijack for a day or days.....worked. 

Or did it woked?  To see with nose off the Pebble.

Finding a way to gain perspective....I think that's a big part.  Like hitting a curb and bouncing off or rolling up and over.

Bouncing off is tv and biscuits, ime.  Bouncing up and over is creating sacred space to live a mindful life.

There's going to be a bump either way, ime.  Trusting the breathing and giving ourselves a moment before reacting....so we SEE choice.  So we have the ability to respond.

Reactivity is about short term relief that creates more distress.

Responding is about creating spaciousness and more joy, not less.

Learning to let others have their own business....like you're doing....is HUGE.  I think it gets easier as we go.  At least thats6 the plan ; )

Lighter




Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 21, 2020, 08:02:00 AM
I will reply to both those lovely posts a little later on, I just wanted to jot down quickly the masterclass that I am experiencing with Mrs Tentacle the group lady!  Text book stuff.  She sent me a personal message a few days ago which I'd not read but decided to deal with today.  It is a very long message about what a terrible week she's been having (this is the same week that we had our admin issue) and she lists numerous problems at home, a dead relative, someone else in intensive care and a few other things.  In amongst all of that, she mentions that she didn't make me an admin, she made me a moderator and she'd like to leave me as that and then lists all the reasons why, and starts telling me about the family problems the other lady is having at the moment (someone else she has involved with running the group who I don't know but did seem nice from our online interaction).  But honestly my jaw dropped as I was reading it, a long list of very unpleasant experiences, all of which I agree are very unpleasant to go through, but sandwiched in amongst all of that is that casual, "you've asked me to remove you twice but you didn't use the same word that I did so I've used that as an excuse to ignore your request again and buried it in amongst all this terrible stuff that's happening to me so that you remain involved".

What was interesting is that I haven't reacted to it emotionally the way I would have done at one point.  I don't feel a need to fix those problems. I am sorry she's having a tough time, as I'm sorry that millions of people are having a tough time right now, but I don't feel a need to do anything about that.  I recognised the method straight away, it's exactly the sort of thing my mum used to do if I didn't want to do something for her (although she'd take it a stage further and actually physically sulk until I gave in).  I also recognised that thing of praising or flattering (she talked about how much they both value my experience and input - although she didn't value it enough last week to listen to anything I was saying or ask me what I thought before she made a decision about the group).  And it's again that odd thing of seeming to want to gather people and resources around her rather than actually selecting who or what she needs.

It's so text book I might even print it out and keep it by my desk for future reminders!  Lol.

Anyway, I have sent a short, polite message back extending my sympathy for her current situation and asking again that, regardless of the word used to describe it, she remove me from that role, and I hope her situation improves soon.  I assume I can log in and remove myself if need be but I felt last week that seemed churlish and akin to flouncing off in a strop but I may get to the point where I have to do it if she continues to refuse.  Wowzers.  My instinct was spot on, even though at the time it felt like an over-reaction.  I think I might stop thinking about decisions and just do whatever my instinct tells me from now on :)  Lol xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on April 21, 2020, 07:54:09 PM
Hear! Hear! 

What clarity, Tupp!

You're sitting in your power, and it's fantastic to read.  Trust yourself.  Trust your instincts, yes!

I SEE you, Tupp!

Lighter



 
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on April 21, 2020, 08:29:01 PM
Perfectly handled, Tupp!

Poor Tentacles, and wise You for avoiding them.

It's so neat when you have an incident of saying to yourself, is this my spidey sense or am I supposed to overrule my instinct to be "good"? And then you go, Hell no, I love and value my own intuition and I'm respecting it now.

Bravo!

Night,
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 22, 2020, 03:01:20 AM
Tupp:

Reacting to discomfort with negative coping strategies .......yup.  Hard to change for good.  We forget to stop, breathe, get centered then select a better response.  So.etimes we just can't do it.

Yesterday I had a moment, but breathed comically through what had to be done....it calmed me down quickly....the breathing and the laughing at myself.

I fixed the problem and noticed I wasn't upset by the end of it, like I would have been a year ago.

Something about DOING something helpful, while forcing myself to breathe even though I was teetering on fight or flight hijack for a day or days.....worked. 

Or did it woked?  To see with nose off the Pebble.

Finding a way to gain perspective....I think that's a big part.  Like hitting a curb and bouncing off or rolling up and over.

Bouncing off is tv and biscuits, ime.  Bouncing up and over is creating sacred space to live a mindful life.

There's going to be a bump either way, ime.  Trusting the breathing and giving ourselves a moment before reacting....so we SEE choice.  So we have the ability to respond.

Reactivity is about short term relief that creates more distress.

Responding is about creating spaciousness and more joy, not less.

Learning to let others have their own business....like you're doing....is HUGE.  I think it gets easier as we go.  At least thats6 the plan ; )

Lighter

Lighter, I think that phrase, "learning to let others have their own business" is really key.  I think when you've been raised to be responsible for the feelings and actions of others it's very, very difficult to let that go and only take responsibility for yourself.   It's a really good skill to learn, and a difficult one!  And yes, to good coping strategies rather than unhealthy ones.  I was listening to a magician on YouTube yesterday (occult magic rather than conjuring tricks; I'm trying to listen to stuff I don't usually whilst on lockdown) and he was talking about how he tries to focus on every experience in his life as either letting go or eliminating something and/or creating something else.  So even with washing up, he said he focuses on clearing the space for the next meal for his family and creating warmth/safety/security for them by opening up space for them to eat.  It kind of chimed with me, because I still find that I feel self care is self indulgent, and I wonder if that's why I find it hard to do when I'm stressed.  My default is that hard work will take you out of a stressful situation; doing yoga or taking a bath seems counter-intuitive.  So I tried last night to think of my bath as taking away the day's stresses and strains and as preparation for a healthy day today.  I don't know if it's something that will work with me long term or if I'll even remember to do it but it was a take on the situation that spoke to me in a way that many other things don't seem to.

What you said about reactivity versus responding is the same thing, I think - changing that perspective so that you're in control of the situation and how it moves forward.  Mmmm.  Food for thought there for me, and something to try to apply to my day today.  Thank you, Lighter.  I'm glad your moment yesterday passed quickly enough to not cause a major disturbance xx 
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 22, 2020, 06:15:13 AM
I understand that so much, Tupp.
Dealing with rejection or indifference from a former friend can be excruciating.
You might remember how I wrote for a very long time, over and over, about one friend, A.,  whose intense interest faded into such a blank that I had to go tell her I was withdrawing from the friendship one day. For me, it was the only way to reclaim my sense of self.

I didn't blame her for it, so it wasn't a confrontation. But in that particular case, I felt the need for transparency, to no longer go along and pretend we still had a friendship when the reciprocity had vanished. I felt better after that, but I think in many/most cases, healthier people would release their grip and let a relationship like that go without comment or stating things openly. I guess different responses make sense under different circumstances.

I also realized in hindsight that she was groomed to be charming and doting and warm in your presence, but those were personality things that helped her make her way through her life. They weren't promises to anyone. They were coping mechanisms. At one point she just found a new couple across the street who fit that slot absolutely perfectly for her, and she just dropped me. (Kept up the warm gushy promises of "we must get together" and "I miss you" which confused my little brain for ages, since she never followed through.) Anyway, when I eventually "released" her (in my own head, as she wasn't feeling any obligation in hers) I released ME. In hindsight, I didn't want an "obligation" connection anyway.

My reactions to rejection, particularly from females, have been heavy to process for my entire life. Goes in my case directly back to two things: 1) An N mother who never saw nor comforted me, because she couldn't, so I had a lifelong hunger for female connection, and 2) being bullied all day at school by girls, in a pack. It's one reason I love this Board so much!

So every time a friendship failed or ended it was all those things reactivating, all over again.

Oddly, it's nearly a nonexistent issue for me now. Solid friendships exist, two or three in this community I know are permanent. I just greatly enjoy other interesting women when I meet them or they attend the group I lead, or whatever. Some of those might or might not turn into new friends, but I'm okay whether they do or not. It's a relief. Gets me more into the present with people and out of rumination about my past, or trying to fill holes I've slowly learned to fill myself, and in community.

I think it's all about that lifelong work of actually becoming a friend to myself. Thinking of myself lovingly and making choices as best I can that include self-kindness. If someone's silly enough not to see how much loyalty and compassion I offer in friendship, then they need something different that I'm not the right person to give them. (Esp. a completely take it or leave it superficial relationship. I don't have time for those any more, I like substance.) That's a lot of it too, I think. One reason this board is so fantastic is because y'all are very intelligent and never tire of learning.

Like you, I think a great deal, all day long. I love to laugh and be goofy but I also have a very serious side, questioning meaning and culture and encountering the self at pretty deep levels, because that is what makes life engaging and exciting for me. Women who just have only rote channels, particularly superficial ones about things or shopping or appearance or ever...I just run out of interest myself, sometimes. It helped to see that.

I am deeply fascinated by who people are and how they got that way and how they change over time. And people like you who are so brave, doing that deep observation of self and culture under really difficult circumstances at times, blow me away.

Boy, what a ramble.

hugs
Hops

Yes, nodding all the way through that, Hops.  I think when your first female to female relationship (with your mum) is adrift then it casts all others in a different light and yes, I experienced the same with school - not direct bullying as such but being mocked for second hand clothes and a lack of money and just not being part of the crowd, partly through not being able to afford to join in and partly through them not wanting me around.  So yes, adult rejections light that up again and it is one of the reasons I've found it so difficult.

And yes, like you, I've missed that some people are just 'nice' to people regardless of whether they want to spend time with them or not.  I do wonder about the autism in me in those situations - it doesn't occur to me to spend time with people I don't enjoy, because I find it so tiring.  So the main times in life when a major 'we have to stay at home, we can't go out' situation has occurred (this is the third one for us, all health related) suddenly discovering that people I've spent a lot of time with regularly don't even phone really threw me for a loop.  It just made no sense to me.  So yes, I can understand how your friend, A, had that effect.  I like the idea of being a life long friend to yourself, and part of that is acknowledging that someone is only spending time with you because they've got nothing better to do.  I found that very hard to get my head around.  I'm finding it easier now.  I do think at times I've been someone's project - they've sort of befriended a lonely single parent of a disabled child to be nice.  Which is a nice thing to do, but I prefer real connections and want people here because they want to be, not because they think they're doing me a favour.

Which brings me on to Mrs Tentacles, who I do think I have disentangled myself from :)  She is a genuinely nice person and I don't think she's aware of the way she is doing things sometimes - I do think it's how she manages anxiety, by creating other problems that she can deal with because some of the other stuff is out of her control.  But for now I just want myself out of the situation and in my own little bubble so she has taken me off the group thingy; her email was quite long and chatty again and I didn't reply.  I couldn't think of anything to say that I really meant.  I don't want to keep in touch, not right not at least, so I didn't want to respond with that and I felt that just acknowledging the message without saying something like that would sound rude so I've not replied.  I'm aware that I feel I ought to but I've decided not to because I'm just tired of always doing what I should and have decided to be naughty and not bother :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on April 22, 2020, 07:02:20 PM
Nope, you're not naughty. You're aware. You've handled Nice Tentacles so very very very well! Not replying is right, imo, because a Tentacled One doesn't stop. It's a huge hunger for attention and support, which you can sympathize with simultaneously with knowing very clearly that YOU are not a person who can be responsible for meeting her endless emotional need.

Nothing naughty about it at all. It may FEEL unusual but it's actually beautiful. It's New You, noticing and taking responsibility for your own needs.

I understand the literal confusion that being mildly spectrumish can bring. I truly do. And it's amazing that you've sussed that out TOO.

You really are incredible, Tupp.

Hugs,
Hops

PS Loved what you said to Lighter about your bath attitude. So perfect, so right.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 23, 2020, 05:22:14 AM
Nope, you're not naughty. You're aware. You've handled Nice Tentacles so very very very well! Not replying is right, imo, because a Tentacled One doesn't stop. It's a huge hunger for attention and support, which you can sympathize with simultaneously with knowing very clearly that YOU are not a person who can be responsible for meeting her endless emotional need.

Nothing naughty about it at all. It may FEEL unusual but it's actually beautiful. It's New You, noticing and taking responsibility for your own needs.

I understand the literal confusion that being mildly spectrumish can bring. I truly do. And it's amazing that you've sussed that out TOO.

You really are incredible, Tupp.

Hugs,
Hops

PS Loved what you said to Lighter about your bath attitude. So perfect, so right.

Thank you, Hops, for all of your kind words and support, it is very much appreciated :) And to Lighter, too, for yours :)  I've muddled up the thread a bit with my jumping back and forth but I read it all and take it all in and come back to re-read things when necessary :)  And Hops, you are right about Tentacles, I've experienced people like that many times in life and it's difficult when someone's being nice - it's hard to say no and it's hard to disentangle yourself, and I do think their intentions are good.  But yep, not for me, I'm staying out of tentacles reach :)  There was a YouTube clip of a huge octopus that came up underneath a paddle boarder and wrapped his tentacles around the board and just shook the paddle boarder of, it was funny to see (no-one was hurt so it's okay to laugh) :)

Anyway, today I am doing an experiment!  I've been thinking about this idea of all actions being either a form of letting go or a form of setting up for something new.  I've always got a to do list on the go, mostly because I'm forgetful and I worry about missing something I need to do, but also because it gives me some feeling of control over what's necessary each day.  I've divided my list into things that would fall into the category of letting go or clearing something from the past (which can just be washing dishes, it doesn't need to be a huge thing) and things that are to do with setting up - which again can be preparing a meal, it doesn't have to be about starting a business or building an extension or something like that.

So having written my list I've put it to one side and my experiment today is just to go with the flow - to do what I feel like doing, as I feel like doing it, whether it's cooking, working with son, doing the garden, whatever comes up.  Then keeping a note in my journal of what I'm doing and how it feels to do it, along with any negative voices that come up.  And at the end of the day I'll compare what I did and my to do list and see how much (or little) of it I got done without using it to guide me.  It's just a curiosity on my part; I'm enjoying the fact I've got the time and the space to do things like this at the moment so I am making the most of it :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 23, 2020, 04:09:47 PM
Well today was interesting.  Didn't need my list at all, I pottered along doing what needed doing, called my step-brother as it was his birthday, caught up on emails, did housework, laundry, cooking and so on.  Felt more relaxed than usual, didn't watch the clock and wasn't as bored as I usually am doing household stuff.  I feel like 'the list' is a paper form of 'you're not good enough' - constantly reminding me that I haven't done enough and I've got too much else to do to sit down.  Pottered until about 2.30 by which time I realised I was tired as I could no longer think about what I was doing or concentrate on it.  Usually that time in the afternoon would be when I have to go to fetch my son from college so it was interesting that my cut off point is the time of day when I'd usually have to embark on a two hour journey before getting home to put the dinner on.

So I decided that 2.30pm was my day end today and went to bed for the rest of the afternoon.  I got up again to cook tea and because I felt less tired than earlier, my instinct was to get on with more on my list.  But I resisted.  If I'm to break this cycle of exhaustion and stress and always having more to do then I need to limit my day to a day, not a day and an evening and in to the night as well.  So I watched a bit of TV, cooked dinner, tidied up a bit and brought the washing in, and since then I've been listening to music.  It was just interesting to me that I wouldn't usually stop when I feel tired, I'd have to keep going, and that as soon as I no longer felt exhausted, my instinct was to get more work done.  The list is still there, written up but not looked at and I'm going to try the same experiment again tomorrow, I think, and see if the same thing happens again.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on April 23, 2020, 08:22:58 PM
What a brilliant couple days, Tupp. 

I agree with your view of the list. 

Yup.

I'm SO relaxed after reading your last post.   

There's so much good information for you there. 

The idea you'll rest when you're tired and not worry about inconsequential things.....
YES!

Lighter

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 24, 2020, 04:06:33 AM
(((((((((((((Lighter)))))))))))))))))) :)

Yep, it was interesting!  I feel very fortunate to have this time at the moment for it not to matter whether I do or don't do things, you know?  Other than food nothing else is essential at the moment and that's a big change.  I'm going to do the same again today and just see how it goes.  Yoga is first priority, my whole left side has really seized up so I need to try to get that loosened up a bit.  But other than that I think I will just potter and see how we get on.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 24, 2020, 11:36:44 AM
Well I've carried on in the same vein today and I have to say, I'm loving it!  And what's more - for the first time ever, son came downstairs and announced that he was hungry and that he was going to make himself a sandwich.  He has never, ever, in the eighteen years he has been on this earth, asked for anything to eat or drink or expressed any kind of hunger or thirst.  He will sometimes come downstairs and loiter if I've forgotten his pudding or drink but he's never actually noted he's hungry and then done something about it.  Huge.

I have done very little other than read, catch up on emails (very very very ex boyfriend emailed me, initially I thought it was sweet that he was asking how we are during lockdown, then I remembered what an arsehole he was so I deleted - tentacles, tentacles).  Watched a bit of TV, made vegetable soup (yummy, now have an entire freezer drawer full of soup so should don't need to make any for a while), danced with son, chatted about some science stuff he's been watching on YouTube, had a bath (in the middle of the day!  And didn't feel guilty or worry about anyone coming round and catching me in the bath!  Lol).  Am feeling the urge to re-arrange the sitting room so may do that next - I suddenly saw how I can move two pieces of furniture and create a bit more floor space, I think.  But feel so relaxed and good, in general, that it just feels really nice.  Did have someone on another forum I use offering disability advice and it made me feel anxious - noticed it and let it go.  I think it just comes up because I feel tension when I start explaining myself to people (who mean well but don't know son's needs so can't advise and haven't been asked to, either).  So didn't explain, just said thanks for thinking of us and moved on.  Was okay :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on April 26, 2020, 07:27:28 PM
Wonderful day, Tupp.  Dancing with ds.... that's a short cut to joy!

How did the furniture change work out?  Did you get to it?

Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 27, 2020, 02:55:49 AM
Wonderful day, Tupp.  Dancing with ds.... that's a short cut to joy!

How did the furniture change work out?  Did you get to it?

Lighter

Lighter, I did, and it always amazes me how you can have the same amount of stuff in a room but arrange it in a way that gives you more space?  Funny how that works.  And now I've got time and headspace to think about anything other than just getting through the day I can see a beautiful space once all that paperwork is scanned and burnt for a bookshelf that just contains books I like to read - no unpleasant paperwork to be seen.  I've padded out the sagging sofa with cardboard - it's not perfect but it means your bum doesn't start sinking after you've been sat on it for half an hour.  I'll re-arrange pictures and son's charts as I go but they're quick and easy things to move around.  I've put my desk by the window so I can watch the birds now while I'm typing :) I think it's just easier in the warmer months because there's less clutter with all the boots and coats you need?  Have you still got a paperwork mountain to deal with at some point? xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on April 27, 2020, 04:30:22 AM
Tupp:

I do have paperwork to deal with.  It won't be easy or over quickly when I finally get to it. 

I wonder why I hang on to it.  Just in case I have to fight another suit or 2 or 3 or 4.  Just in case a book needs to be written.  Just in case I have to produce evidence for my children to show them exactly what's what. 

That's the thing about sheltering children from the really tough stuff....
they're so very sheltered.  I think mine have a basic understanding, but they haven't had the PDs whispering lies.  That could change.

I'm not worried about it.  I'm just not in a hurry to burn or otherwise rid myself of the paperwork quite yet.  It feels like a talisman.  If I have it... I won't need it.

If I burn it....

Lighter

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 27, 2020, 04:44:17 AM
Tupp:

I do have paperwork to deal with.  It won't be easy or over quickly when I finally get to it. 

I wonder why I hang on to it.  Just in case I have to fight another suit or 2 or 3 or 4.  Just in case a book needs to be written.  Just in case I have to produce evidence for my children to show them exactly what's what. 

That's the thing about sheltering children from the really tough stuff....
they're so very sheltered.  I think mine have a basic understanding, but they haven't had the PDs whispering lies.  That could change.

I'm not worried about it.  I'm just not in a hurry to burn or otherwise rid myself of the paperwork quite yet.  It feels like a talisman.  If I have it... I won't need it.

If I burn it....

Lighter

That's exactly the same for me, Lighter - what if it all comes up again and I have to fight?  Some of those records took me 18 months to get hold of, multiple letters, requests, intervention by other agencies, information redacted, etc etc.  And it's more difficult to get things now because legally, son would have to give his consent, which he often would not be judged able to do, so we'd have to go to court, and so on and so on.  They've become another one of those things that keeps me safe, but also holds me back.  The plan is still to scan everything (so that I have copies) and then burn the hard copies but it is a huge job and one that I know will be painful at times.  But - I have made a list of each 'category' (everything's filed according to what it's related to) and some sets are very basic and not very big so I'm thinking I could start with those easy ones and work my way up to the biggies.  But it will be a big job, regardless.  So yep, I know what you mean - it's that sleeping bear phrase that you use!  It can sit there, not causing major problems, or you can pull it all out and ........... I almost feel like 'airing' it all might somehow cause problems again, like you've let the genie out of the bottle and the bad woo woo picks up on it.  Silly, I know, but the whole situation was always just so messed up and out there that it's always felt like the normal rules didn't apply, you know?  I have, though, decided that when the time comes I'll get one of those bins with a chimney, do you know the ones I mean?  Steel bin with a lid and a chimney on top that you can burn garden rubbish in.  I'm envisaging one of those and secret night time burning sessions as I slowly work my way through it :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on April 27, 2020, 04:54:15 AM
I hope you can scan and have done with it.  That would be so grand to have done.  I think you have a good enough handle on your files to do that. 

Sadly, I don't have a good handle on mine.  There are so many cross-referenced files and important papers that ended up moved around.... SO many cases and they span every aspect of the law.... super confusing and there would be so much digging and MANY bears would get out of their caves.  So I let it sit, and wait for inspiration.  Maybe just moving it out of the house.

You're right about it keeping me safe and holding me back.  It feels just like that.

Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 27, 2020, 06:19:23 AM
I think that's one of my biggest resentments about the whole thing, Lighter, is that we were dragged into situations that were unnecessary and not of our own doing.  And the other people involved had a purpose, and the time and money to put into it - whether that's the deranged relatives who have nothing better to do than try to bring you down, or the endless stream of professionals, whatever form they take, who are paid a wage and also have offices and secretaries to deal with all that stuff.  Plus, of course, they don't have the emotional connection because, whatever happens, they can all just walk away back to their lives and their families.  This was our family we had to fight for, and we were left victorious but bloody hell, battle scarred with kids who needed to be shielded and protected from it while they were young, and then who you have to, in some way, tell the truth to as they get older.  My son took it in his stride pretty much, but telling him his own nan didn't believe he was poorly and tried to stop anyone from helping him was hard.  Who in the world does that to children? 

So yep, I completely get where you're coming from, and storing them out of the house somewhere sounds like a great idea.  Maybe a nice little summerhouse type set up in a tucked away corner of the garden, with lovely moss and plants, hanging baskets, bird boxes, something pretty and living and natural to counteract the unpleasantness.  I like the sound of that.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 27, 2020, 09:54:24 AM
Well my anxiety has shot through the roof this afternoon and I think it is my little reminder that I need to keep checking and monitoring myself (a bit like you doing too much because your Knee felt a bit better, Hopsie, I think I've let my guard down a bit because I felt a bit stronger).  I'd messaged someone yesterday who I used to consider a friend, don't really feel the same way about her now as she's not been very supportive but she isn't well at the moment (cancer) and her treatment's been stopped because of the virus so I've been trying to message and keep in touch to be supportive.  Anyway, her responses have been quite curt and dismissive, allowances made on my side in case she's not feeling well, is down, struggling etc.  But yesterday's message made it clear that she's been out having a very nice time, doing far more than I can do even when we're not on lockdown, no interest in us, added to which she's been out with another friend who I also used to consider a good friend but again, the lack of support has knocked that on the head for me.  I think the thing that upset me is more that I've immediately slipped back in to checking on other people and thinking of those who don't think of me.  It's like I stop doing it for a couple of days, feel better, and then immediately do it again.  So was tearful last night, being silly I know, I don't want to have people like that in my life, I do need more reciprocity that they can offer so it's all good and fine, I think it just caught me because I'd let my own guard about it.

Also having some problems this afternoon with sorting out my son's prescription and again, it's that maddening admin stuff that you just have to keep repeating because there doesn't seem to be any kind of system in place which means each person you deal with has a different way of doing things.  Such a waste of everyone's time and even more ridiculous given that everyone is so busy at the moment; I'm sure they don't need to do the same thing repeatedly any more than I do.  So the anxiety really rocked up quickly and the chest pains were quite bad; I've not had that for a while so it caught me off guard a bit.  I'm taking it as a reminder to not check up on people who never check up on me and the NHS admin stuff, I don't quite know how to handle that.  I was trying to do it online because I thought it would be easier for them as the phones must be busy but perhaps it is just easier if I phone them.  I might try to do that later when I've calmed down a bit.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on April 27, 2020, 11:55:11 AM
That was a double whammy, ((((Tupp)))). Reaching out to the unreciprocal "friend" and then finding out how shallow her interest was. OW OW OW. To me that's a simple 2 steps forward + 1 step back = FORWARD.

Please don't beat yourself up about it. It's an old pattern, you forgot, you're an optimist. But all the beautiful realizations and self-comforting you've accomplished in recent times are no less real or solid than they were before today. Today you just tested it, stepped back into a familiar groove of reaching out to a person who doesn't really reciprocate, and perhaps email or online messaging leaves out the context that would've helped you take note of that in other times. Like tone of voice on the phone, etc. You did nothing wrong or stupid, you just took a minute to take an old dance step that you momentarily forgot is NOT part of your new routine.

If anything, this can make your new routine of self-respect, reciprocity, and kindness to yourself even more solid. Just keep on with it, and it will transform everything in time. The math is good. That's still reality. You are still FORWARD.

I feel for both you and Lighter facing the paperwork mountains. I wonder what practical ways you could come up with to defuse the triggers ahead of the task? I hope you can both get through with the scanning projects without too much angst. Maybe sunshine, great music, and taking a box outdoors one at a time would help.
Tupp, is there some methodical way your son could help with it?

That said, I have thrown away papers others would shred for many many years without fear of identity theft. No problems ever, happy recycling. (I figure if somebody's interested in my identity, they'll be sorely disappointed.)

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 27, 2020, 12:16:06 PM
That was a double whammy, ((((Tupp)))). Reaching out to the unreciprocal "friend" and then finding out how shallow her interest was. OW OW OW. To me that's a simple 2 steps forward + 1 step back = FORWARD.

Please don't beat yourself up about it. It's an old pattern, you forgot, you're an optimist. But all the beautiful realizations and self-comforting you've accomplished in recent times are no less real or solid than they were before today. Today you just tested it, stepped back into a familiar groove of reaching out to a person who doesn't really reciprocate, and perhaps email or online messaging leaves out the context that would've helped you take note of that in other times. Like tone of voice on the phone, etc. You did nothing wrong or stupid, you just took a minute to take an old dance step that you momentarily forgot is NOT part of your new routine.

If anything, this can make your new routine of self-respect, reciprocity, and kindness to yourself even more solid. Just keep on with it, and it will transform everything in time. The math is good. That's still reality. You are still FORWARD.

I feel for both you and Lighter facing the paperwork mountains. I wonder what practical ways you could come up with to defuse the triggers ahead of the task? I hope you can both get through with the scanning projects without too much angst. Maybe sunshine, great music, and taking a box outdoors one at a time would help.
Tupp, is there some methodical way your son could help with it?

That said, I have thrown away papers others would shred for many many years without fear of identity theft. No problems ever, happy recycling. (I figure if somebody's interested in my identity, they'll be sorely disappointed.)

hugs
Hops

Ha ha, Hops, there's a funny song on the internet, I forget who did it now, but it's a guy singing about identity theft and basically listing all his faults and saying, "you're bloody welcome to it"  lol, it did make me laugh.

Thank you for the comfort and the reminder.  I think I fell out of my box a little bit.  I think I need to focus on why I'm getting an urge to do something.  I was getting my 'be a good girl' head on when I messaged to check on her, I think - I don't want to be thought of as the arsehole who didn't bother to check on her friend who has cancer.  But those are old messages, old patterns and the situation is different now so I think that's what I need to check next time I want to do something - am I doing it for me, or I am trying to quieten down an old message I don't need to listen to anymore?  I need to keep more of an eye on that, I think.  Thank you for the reminder that it's still forward :)

I think the paperwork will be okay in small amounts and I think I might have to purposely do a bit and then leave it a couple of days before doing a bit more - really spread it out so it doesn't trigger loads in one go.  Some of it will be easy to do as it was just records I got through that didn't have any unpleasantness in them so that will just be scan, get rid of.  Some of it's vile, utterly, utterly vile, vile things about son, vile things about me, my mother's bloody mad theories about disability, parenting and sexual abuse (the notion of anyone taking any notice of anything she says is just baffling - when you read through the things she says you can see the madness and lack of logic in it but the disability discrimination is so high here that a lot of people still believe all that kind of thing and they just accepted it without double checking or cross referencing with anyone else - madness).  I won't be tackling it just yet but I can see it getting done this year, in little dribs and drabs.  And who knows, after three boxes I might just think "bollocks to this" and chuck the whole lot on the fire.  Lol, that's quite a temptation.  I wouldn't ask son to go through it with me as so much of it is negative about him - it's just the way they do assessments here, they focus completely on what people can't do and he'd be upset about a lot of the things that have been said about me.

I did have a wonder about trying to do some sort of nice creative project alongside it - like an art therapy type thing?  Some sort of picture to represent how I felt at the time or how it's making me feel now or something like that.  I don't know.  But I think if I carry on getting other things sorted at home and get a few projects started - bit more going on in the garden, sewing projects, sorting and framing photos, tech projects with son and so on - then that might help to have a few other things to delve in to as I go along.  I do feel very, very positive about the prospect of having a big space where that huge book shelf is at the moment.  That will be a nice thing to achieve.  I think biscuits will need to be eaten :)  lol xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: CB123 on April 27, 2020, 12:49:07 PM
Tupp,

I know its tempting to try to figure out what you did wrong--it actually makes us feel more in control if we can come up with fault and then change our own behavior.

I think you are doing what you are supposed to do. I read once that the reason liars and cheats get away with what they do is because most people tell the truth. If everyone lied, for example, then there would be no advantage to being a liar.

The same thing with being caring and supportive. That's what we are supposed to do. We shouldnt stop doing it. Its what makes us human. People who aren't being caring are the odd ones, and the reason they are so hurtful is because of how abnormal they are. The only way for us to have continued on this earth for as long as we have is because communities have been built on caring for one another. You are operating on the basis of generations of successful evolution!!!

There can even be a good reason for why she behaved the way she did (the other thing we try to ferret out in these kinds of situations: a reason for the aberrant behavior of other people). But whether she does or doesnt, you did what you were supposed to do as a normal human being. She didnt respond in a normal way. But you were completely normal to check on someone who is fragile healthwise and who might need some help or encouragement.

Be your own best friend. Don't beat yourself up for another person's aberrant behavior. You are a good and kind human being. You didnt do anything wrong. You dont need to learn or heal from your misguided behavior--there wasnt any. I love it that you are finding ways to make your life peaceful and more functional these days with all the "oughts" removed. It has been so encouraging to me to see your journey.

Love,
CB
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 27, 2020, 03:02:20 PM
Tupp,

I know its tempting to try to figure out what you did wrong--it actually makes us feel more in control if we can come up with fault and then change our own behavior.

I think you are doing what you are supposed to do. I read once that the reason liars and cheats get away with what they do is because most people tell the truth. If everyone lied, for example, then there would be no advantage to being a liar.

The same thing with being caring and supportive. That's what we are supposed to do. We shouldnt stop doing it. Its what makes us human. People who aren't being caring are the odd ones, and the reason they are so hurtful is because of how abnormal they are. The only way for us to have continued on this earth for as long as we have is because communities have been built on caring for one another. You are operating on the basis of generations of successful evolution!!!

There can even be a good reason for why she behaved the way she did (the other thing we try to ferret out in these kinds of situations: a reason for the aberrant behavior of other people). But whether she does or doesnt, you did what you were supposed to do as a normal human being. She didnt respond in a normal way. But you were completely normal to check on someone who is fragile healthwise and who might need some help or encouragement.

Be your own best friend. Don't beat yourself up for another person's aberrant behavior. You are a good and kind human being. You didnt do anything wrong. You dont need to learn or heal from your misguided behavior--there wasnt any. I love it that you are finding ways to make your life peaceful and more functional these days with all the "oughts" removed. It has been so encouraging to me to see your journey.

Love,
CB

Thanks, CB, I really appreciate that so much and yes, you are right, it is very normal to reach out to people and ask how they are, I shouldn't be questioning that.  I think because sometimes the response hurts it makes me question myself to try to stop it hurting again in the future.  But you're right, checking in on people and reaching out for contact is very normal human behaviour and I shouldn't be questioning myself for doing it.  A very timely and helpful reminder, thank you :)  xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on April 27, 2020, 04:21:07 PM
Two ideas:

1) This isn't art, but one advantage is, you could also pee on it.
Search Term: How to Make Office Paper Mulch
YouTube has loads of easy instructions.

If you can't shred it (too much, no shredder) even torn pieces can work.

2) Can you pick out a bright happy-colored folder, and place that across the face of each page, down a bit from the top? The idea is, you only need to skim a couple lines to figure out what history or toxicity is IN that document, right? You'll remember the gist. So maybe a visual block like that would help you NOT RE-READ it to thus RE-EXPERIENCE it all so fully.

Maybe that could help you be more able to treat them as unwanted pieces of paper to sort for discard.

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 28, 2020, 04:51:29 AM
Two ideas:

1) This isn't art, but one advantage is, you could also pee on it.
Search Term: How to Make Office Paper Mulch
YouTube has loads of easy instructions.

If you can't shred it (too much, no shredder) even torn pieces can work.

2) Can you pick out a bright happy-colored folder, and place that across the face of each page, down a bit from the top? The idea is, you only need to skim a couple lines to figure out what history or toxicity is IN that document, right? You'll remember the gist. So maybe a visual block like that would help you NOT RE-READ it to thus RE-EXPERIENCE it all so fully.

Maybe that could help you be more able to treat them as unwanted pieces of paper to sort for discard.

Hugs
Hops

Well the idea of peeing on it is very appealing, Hops :)  Lol.

I do want to write about it.  It's a big part of being Voiceless for me.  Our history - my son's as a person/child/young adult with disabilities and mine as a parent, carer, advocate, survivor of deranged parenting - has been written by other people.  My mum is the primary author, and then various accounts have been written as a result of her claims, or further maladjusted by the inherent discrimination within the system itself and the overwhelming need there seems to be for compliance no matter how much damage that causes the disabled person or their family.  Their version is wrong, and mine has never been heard in its entirety, or documented in its entirety.  And I'm still dealing with it; just recently I've had a copy of an email forwarded to me where it's been claimed, quite falsely, that I shouted and swore at someone when cancelling an appointment.  That isn't what happened at all and I've been able to prove it (again) and have forwarded the information on to have the record amended.  But I have pointed out to my son's GP (who has been supportive) that I only ever have this problem with public sector staff.  If you go back to everyone I've ever worked for, you'll get no-one labelling me the way I've been labelled by the public sector - in fact for the most part you'd get very good references.  And equally in my personal life - the only person who experiences me as a deranged and dangerous psychotic is my mother.  No-one else will give you a report of the endless unreasonable behaviour that most public sector staff accuse me of or were led to believe I engage in.  So I have a very great need to purge that, I think - to write it up as it actually happened, not as people were made to believe by my mum and various staff members.  Just for my own sense of satisfaction really, and to have my say - even if it is just to myself and maybe my son in years to come.  It feels like the thing I need to do before I close the door on it for good.

So I do think it will be painful at times (and I may well delay doing it until such time as the EMDR lady is open for business again so that I can work through what comes up as it happens) but I think a little bit at a time will work.  I think the burning of it afterwards will feel lovely :) 

In other news - the prescription problem has been sorted out.  The fancy website, online ordering thing basically doesn't work well and they've admitted that it's easier for them if I just email.  Why do they not just acknowledge that the fancy thing isn't working and the old fashioned way is better for now?  People saving face, I just don't get it.  But anyway, sorted out now.  And connections.  I am trying  to connect with myself more.  I ache from head to toe so am just off for a soak in the bath and will then attempt yoga at various times through the day to try to ease that off.  I've got nice music on.  There's plenty of food in at the moment.  Things are good.

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 29, 2020, 05:10:08 AM
Well I am feeling blue today.  I've done a Hopsie and took a tumble - not badly, but my back is really hurting now and, of course, no osteopath to put things back together for me.  I will try some yoga very carefully and try to ease it through the day.  Epsom salts baths do help so I'll do that again later.  I had a little fall doing yoga a couple of days ago - over stretched myself and lost my balance - not badly but I obviously tweaked something.  Then tried to cover a bad smell in the kitchen with a spray in the air of furniture polish - I'd cleaned but the smell was still there so I thought I'd have to pull the cooker out but didn't want to do it that night.  So I sprayed a bit of polish just to cover the smell and forgot that polish makes things shiny - so the droplets settled on the wooden floor and when I went back in five minutes later I took off across it like Torvill and Dean.  And I've pulled everything down my right side grabbing at the counter to stop myself from going all the way.  Stupid!

And the interweb is getting me down - difficult to only see the things you want to and not see anything else and I'm reluctant to disengage completely as it's my primary social tool right now.  But the conspiracy theories, attitudes towards elderly and disabled, people insisting other countries must change but baulking at even small changes themselves - it's not stuff I like to be aware of and it just seems to have increased over the last couple of days.

I have got pain killers for my back but they make me a bit 'high' - ravenously hungry, very chatty and then when they wear off I feel like I have a hangover.  So I try not to take them unless I absolutely can't manage the pain.  I'm thinking a home visit from Keanu Reeves might be the only thing to cheer me up right now :)  I wonder if he can hear me?  Lol xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on April 29, 2020, 10:49:19 AM
Paging Keanu! Cleanup on aisle 4!

I'm sooooo sorry you fell, Tupp. It's the scariest feeling, those half-seconds of going through space without control. Triggers not just pain on impact but a whole lot of emotional stuff along with it, don't you think? You can deal with this but would've been nice not to have to.

I know you'll heal. Be careful about yoga as cure, just sometimes NOT moving (I'm finding out the hard way) is the only way to let those tiny painful tears in fibers heal. Or NOT doing.

I'm pretty good at NOT doing, but that's the opposite of Ms. Mad Organizer-Cleaner Tupp. I hope the discomfort eases rapidly and you no longer use furniture polish as air freshener. Just....air! Vanilla extract! Farts! One's own farts aren't too bad, eh?

You love fragrances. Gotta find you some very fragrant species of flower that will grow near your kitchen window. Sunny or shady?

Damn. I'm so sorry you fell.
Love the sound of the Epsom Salts baths.

Big hopes this will ease up quickly over the next day or so....report regularly please!

Gently,
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on April 29, 2020, 11:59:34 AM
I completely understand why you'd want to write your own story, Tupp, since others have been doing other narratives about it that drive you mad.

I remember when socio-Nbro came after me with his whole series of utterly false and derogatory accusations. The injustice of the things he said, plus the pure malignancy of what he was doing (to get at Nmom's accounts) was the most upsetting thing I'd ever been through.

At one point I wrote a huge document to my lawyer, putting each of Nbro's deluded and (old fashioned word alert) WICKED accusations in a chart. What He Said. What the Facts Actually Were. I included quotations, proof, documentation. And it was such a fine feeling because not ONE of his ugly, twisted manipulations held up in the slightest. I rebutted each and every single one, and beautifully, if I do say so myself. We (lawyer and I) sent it off to his attorney with a very polite cover letter and never heard a single word about any of them again, and then went on to completely triumph over him in court.

The thing is, though, apart from once or twice in the immediate aftermath, I've never had a single desire to read it again. I'm done. Focusing on assembling that history was grueling and valuable in that moment, and it did help the case. But I'm talking about five pages, in a chart, not boxes and piles and years and years.

I would ask just as debbil's advocate of my dear friend Tupp: Realistically, what you're describing sounds like a labor of years, or at least a couple years. Huge, intense, big, complex, detailed and especially -- draining. Literally, triggering.

Do you REALLY want to use up time from your shiny different positive happier future on correcting every single thing from the past? Even though you're RIGHT, you were MISTREATED and MISUNDERSTOOD and BADLY SERVED by the public system, and all of it? The endless micro and macro affronts to your dignity and sense of self and security? They were real and horrible and you'll never be glad it happened that way.

But I keep looking at what you created instead. The energy and order and calm and pleasure and gentleness of your world. It's beautiful. And it's FORWARD.

Do you really really want to spend huge time (and space, and paperwork) writing it all down, instead of doing something completely new? The thing I'm sticking on is that I literally cannot imagine how doing that project would not be like reliving the experiences that you've left behind. Or are still leaving behind as you heal.

I totally respect and support your own choice about what feels like it will give you agency, and voice, and peace. If writing that memoir/advice book will be it, I'll be cheering you on!

I'm just projecting worry, and that's not always helpful. I just keep thinking of the joys of peeing on mulch, or having a splendid paper-bonfire, or something. Anything. Maybe it's me!

I still have papers under the bed in my office space that have to do with that awful period of my life. There's more purging I can do, and since it all does fit under the bed...I've avoided it. But I have the luxury of storage space. The idea that your space, tight as it is, has to be dominated by reams and reams and reams of the long history you've been through of that kind of struggle, just makes me sad.

Wish I had a fairy wand. Would happily use it to liberate you!

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 29, 2020, 12:15:49 PM
I completely understand why you'd want to write your own story, Tupp, since others have been doing other narratives about it that drive you mad.

I remember when socio-Nbro came after me with his whole series of utterly false and derogatory accusations. The injustice of the things he said, plus the pure malignancy of what he was doing (to get at Nmom's accounts) was the most upsetting thing I'd ever been through.

At one point I wrote a huge document to my lawyer, putting each of Nbro's deluded and (old fashioned word alert) WICKED accusations in a chart. What He Said. What the Facts Actually Were. I included quotations, proof, documentation. And it was such a fine feeling because not ONE of his ugly, twisted manipulations held up in the slightest. I rebutted each and every single one, and beautifully, if I do say so myself. We (lawyer and I) sent it off to his attorney with a very polite cover letter and never heard a single word about any of them again, and then went on to completely triumph over him in court.

The thing is, though, apart from once or twice in the immediate aftermath, I've never had a single desire to read it again. I'm done. Focusing on assembling that history was grueling and valuable in that moment, and it did help the case. But I'm talking about five pages, in a chart, not boxes and piles and years and years.

I would ask just as debbil's advocate of my dear friend Tupp: Realistically, what you're describing sounds like a labor of years, or at least a couple years. Huge, intense, big, complex, detailed and especially -- draining. Literally, triggering.

Do you REALLY want to use up time from your shiny different positive happier future on correcting every single thing from the past? Even though you're RIGHT, you were MISTREATED and MISUNDERSTOOD and BADLY SERVED by the public system, and all of it? The endless micro and macro affronts to your dignity and sense of self and security? They were real and horrible and you'll never be glad it happened that way.

But I keep looking at what you created instead. The energy and order and calm and pleasure and gentleness of your world. It's beautiful. And it's FORWARD.

Do you really really want to spend huge time (and space, and paperwork) writing it all down, instead of doing something completely new? The thing I'm sticking on is that I literally cannot imagine how doing that project would not be like reliving the experiences that you've left behind. Or are still leaving behind as you heal.

I totally respect and support your own choice about what feels like it will give you agency, and voice, and peace. If writing that memoir/advice book will be it, I'll be cheering you on!

I'm just projecting worry, and that's not always helpful. I just keep thinking of the joys of peeing on mulch, or having a splendid paper-bonfire, or something. Anything. Maybe it's me!

I still have papers under the bed in my office space that have to do with that awful period of my life. There's more purging I can do, and since it all does fit under the bed...I've avoided it. But I have the luxury of storage space. The idea that your space, tight as it is, has to be dominated by reams and reams and reams of the long history you've been through of that kind of struggle, just makes me sad.

Wish I had a fairy wand. Would happily use it to liberate you!

Hugs
Hops

Aw, thanks, Hops, yes, you may well be right, it might be one of those things where I do a couple of boxes and think 'bugger this' and just burn the lot.  At the moment the thought of just scanning and burning without any voice of my own feels uncomfortable.  But I'll keep an eye on what I do and how I feel and yep, if dumping the lot feels better I'll certainly do that.

The thing you describe with your brother is what I've done every time I've been falsely accused - crossed reference files, produced evidence that disproves allegations, noted it all down.  But it still feels ............ unfinished.  I think a part of me is still afraid of something happening to me (sudden death), son going in to a care home and his whole history being inaccurately recorded in those files.  Another nagging feeling is my mother outliving me and getting her tentacles around him again if I'm suddenly dispatched, or her passing on that mantle to her fruitloop in training neice, who seems to be carrying on the family tradition on her behalf these days.  Again, probably groundless fears and highly unlikely to happen but it's one of those things that creeps up in dark moments.  So I'm keeping my options open, I think.  I'll play it by ear and see how things pan out and remind myself I can change my mind about what I'm doing at any time.  I quite like the idea of having one large document that I can slam on a table and say, "See!  I bloody told you I was right!"  To no-one in particular, it's just an image I like having in my head :)  Lol

And thank you for the health good wishes.  Yes, very daft of me, the furniture polish was just in front of me on the side, I could easily have burnt some incense or a candle or just had the sense to check the compost bin by the back door (which is where the smell was coming from and was easily dealt with by moving it!).  I haven't done much at all today but equally I have found today a difficult one; I think this is the first day of the lockdown I've found really hard to cope with and the first time I've really wanted to go out and connect with some people.  I've had to dig very deep and I think trying not to move too much or do too much is hard when you feel like that.  I've done a little bit of yoga; at first it felt better but it's throbbing now so I will have to be careful.  The bath awaits!  I'm sure it will feel better tomorrow, I just need to not do anything that silly again.

I did write some poetry today!  It's not of any kind of decent standard but I just like writing that stream of consciousness type stuff to get things out of my system.  Wrote about my sadness at losing friends.  Did feel better once I'd written it and I've just had a chat with a friend on the phone as well.  And now chatting on here too :)  All good :)

Just out of nosiness sake (so feel free to tell me not to be nosy), do you ever see or hear from your NBro now, Hopsie? xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on April 29, 2020, 03:33:32 PM
Tupp, you are just so SANE.
And wise, and thoughtful.
I totally believe you, you'll evaluate things and adjust as you go.
Sorry for that unnecessary detour (through my own projections, as usual).

Compost perfume! Ahhhh. What a good reason for a stinky smell.

I'm glad you recognized and respected and described and wrote out
your own feelings...sounds to me as though you've processed them in
a really brilliant way. Difficult but productive at the same time. BRAVO.

Glad you got to talk to a friend, too. I had a couple of those calls lately,
just turned 70, and it was like sunshine through clouds just to connect.
I totally profoundly understand how the fall triggered some dark thoughts.
Mine did for me too.

The thing that turned it around was an absurd moment in my kitchen this
morning when I blended too enthusiastically to make health-promoting
smoothies and my ancient beloved perfect workhorse Vitamix spewed
a rather ugly goo all over everything.

I stood there and actually tuned into my inner dialogue: Oh what a huge
mess. I need to clean that up. I could clean that up later (x4)... and then,
I want to do what adults do. I can clean up my own mess. I like to clean
up the messes I make! I remember how much I adore my old Vitamix with
its dragon sticker. It's my friend! It makes me healthier! Let's give it a good
wash... and on and on, like a batty old lady lunatic, and I was laughing and
feeling joy and so it went. All cleaned up and I had a big realization in the
process, that I just shared with my T (via video).

I approach my ADD and clutter stuff with a very stern inner adult monologue, i.e.:
To do this properly I must follow the classic advice--perfectly--which is: make a list, break tedious things down into small increments, set a timer, plan in rewards, yadda yadda. I know this stuff by heart! But it seldom works.

This time, afloat with happy birthday self-esteem (I always feel joy at being alive on my bday)...I relaxed. And what came up instead was a goofy, playful child who got the work done fine because she indulged aloud in a random, affectionate, companionable free-associating stream of SILLY SELF TALK that was about delighting in the moment, using a ridiculous pretext for acting it out (actually doing the work was acting it out) and it became actually fun. Rather blew my mind. My T was clapping! She wants me to remember this as a significant breakthrough. Huh!

Nope, not a single solitary syllable from socio-Nbro since the day he walked out of court, entirely defeated. I actually felt sad for him as we saw him walk away.

BUT. I have not missed him for one second, and almost never think about him. I don't have one iota of a feeling of unfinished business with him, nor sadly, with his cowed family. His cruelty and evil behavior toward me was wrong, and I can think of no justification whatsoever for having him in my life ever again.

I really did mean it about PHAMILY. Blood relation holds, on its own, absolutely no more meaning for me. It's how people treat you, and that's just it. (I also had decades of conscience-driven care for Nmom, which I regret in some ways but don't regret in others...and in any case, it's over.) I do miss my gentle Dad but had him long enough to build my certainty that just as evil behavior abounds, moreso does kindness and good behavior. Not perfect, but good enough for me.

And since my D imploded and became cruel to me herself, over time, the absence of biofamily has gotten a lot easier. Except for Dad, I just don't associate biofamily with good things. So they're gone, I'm still here, and I still have love in my life. Friends. Mr. M. And a community I feel a part of, even when I'm floating in a very outer circle. It's all in my head, but so is the happy silly child, and so is spring, and green things, and animals...and it's all just a big pond of possibility. Despite it all.

hugs and incoherence,
Hops


Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on April 29, 2020, 03:42:55 PM
Quote
I think a part of me is still afraid of something happening to me (sudden death), son going in to a care home and his whole history being inaccurately recorded in those files.  Another nagging feeling is my mother outliving me and getting her tentacles around him again

This is absolutely understandable. I'm always amazed at how there's always a kind of EMOTIONAL LOGIC behind our decisions or impulses or plans.

I also agree that it's quite unlikely to turn out that way (and understand why the fall would re-trigger that cycle of thought). If you've set things up legally for him, it sure would seem highly unlikely that an estranged and toxic old alcoholic grandparent could swoop in and take charge.

Do you have a plan for his future documented, and legally secured? I'm sure you do, but if not, that could ease a load of creeping worry.

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 29, 2020, 04:30:41 PM
Quote
I think a part of me is still afraid of something happening to me (sudden death), son going in to a care home and his whole history being inaccurately recorded in those files.  Another nagging feeling is my mother outliving me and getting her tentacles around him again

This is absolutely understandable. I'm always amazed at how there's always a kind of EMOTIONAL LOGIC behind our decisions or impulses or plans.

I also agree that it's quite unlikely to turn out that way (and understand why the fall would re-trigger that cycle of thought). If you've set things up legally for him, it sure would seem highly unlikely that an estranged and toxic old alcoholic grandparent could swoop in and take charge.

Do you have a plan for his future documented, and legally secured? I'm sure you do, but if not, that could ease a load of creeping worry.

hugs
Hops

I don't, Hopsie, I think that's part of the worry.  It's very complicated legally.  Now that he's 18, I don't have any legal rights over him or on his behalf at all, beyond being allowed to manage his disability benefit money for him and fill in (some) forms on his behalf.  I've a life insurance policy that would go in to a trust fund for him; that's set up and I've left instructions for that, which I'm able to do because it's my money I'm leaving him so I can have a say in what it's used for and who can use it.  But with regards to care I've no legal right to make any decisions for him at all.  I made some enquiries about possible legal routes but it's very complicated and can be very expensive as well - some things there can be funded via Legal Aid, some can't.  So it's something I need to look in to at length and in depth.  It does worry me; care packages are done as cheaply as possible.  Even families I know who receive a full care package still have to do some of it themselves because it doesn't cover everything.  So the system is like a leaky boat and my fruit loop mother is a sneaky shark!  So it's an unlikely scenario and there is an element of having to just accept I can't control everything from beyond the grave but I do need to sit down and deal with all of that at some point and I think I keep linking the paperwork to that as well - at the moment if a court looked through some of those records they make me look bad.  I'd need my ducks in a row.  But to what extent I don't know, because I haven't done enough research yet.  It's on the list.  Lockdown may be a good time to get on with it, although today making a cup of tea felt like hard work :)  I'll get it sorted at some point xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on April 29, 2020, 06:51:55 PM
I'm sure you will. You've been beyond responsible with all this.

Maybe one perspective to try out is: Writing a honking big memoir about the past is one thing. Focusing on a sensible legal/trust cover document plan (what you can do, not what you can't) for his future, as best you can accomplish, is....FORWARD.

What you can do is what you can do. You're right. It may be tedious and frustrating to research his future scenarios, but it won't be dependent (imo) on you defending/justifying every single past decision you've made, or relitigating your Nmother's sabotage. (If her sabotage were that effective, you wouldn't have won, which you basically HAVE.)

Anyhow. If I knew anyone with a young adult special needs child, and they wondered what to do and how to face it all, I'd think of you. There's one heroine in the U.K. who has triumphed over all of it: family sabotage and lack of support, public system's massive shortcomings, and more.

And you have a son who's charming, confident, and able to amuse himself for incredibly long stretches and still feels purposefully engaged in life. Just AMAZING.

Yay, you.

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on April 29, 2020, 10:19:15 PM
Trying to catch up. 

Glad you're writing poetry and smoothing out emotions over lost friendships, Tupp.

I've been thinking a lot about the records and files lately.... like you. My gut tells me it's time to have a bonfire.  My head says there's a bit more business before that happens.  I want to talk to the girls and make sure they don't have any questions.  I want to tell them the big truths and be able to back them up with documents, if necessary.

Once I've done that..... I think I'll know it's time to start the fire.

I think you'll know when it's time to set yours too. ((Tupp.))

Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 30, 2020, 03:34:56 AM
Tupp, you are just so SANE.
And wise, and thoughtful.
I totally believe you, you'll evaluate things and adjust as you go.
Sorry for that unnecessary detour (through my own projections, as usual).

Compost perfume! Ahhhh. What a good reason for a stinky smell.

I'm glad you recognized and respected and described and wrote out
your own feelings...sounds to me as though you've processed them in
a really brilliant way. Difficult but productive at the same time. BRAVO.

Glad you got to talk to a friend, too. I had a couple of those calls lately,
just turned 70, and it was like sunshine through clouds just to connect.
I totally profoundly understand how the fall triggered some dark thoughts.
Mine did for me too.

The thing that turned it around was an absurd moment in my kitchen this
morning when I blended too enthusiastically to make health-promoting
smoothies and my ancient beloved perfect workhorse Vitamix spewed
a rather ugly goo all over everything.

I stood there and actually tuned into my inner dialogue: Oh what a huge
mess. I need to clean that up. I could clean that up later (x4)... and then,
I want to do what adults do. I can clean up my own mess. I like to clean
up the messes I make! I remember how much I adore my old Vitamix with
its dragon sticker. It's my friend! It makes me healthier! Let's give it a good
wash... and on and on, like a batty old lady lunatic, and I was laughing and
feeling joy and so it went. All cleaned up and I had a big realization in the
process, that I just shared with my T (via video).

I approach my ADD and clutter stuff with a very stern inner adult monologue, i.e.:
To do this properly I must follow the classic advice--perfectly--which is: make a list, break tedious things down into small increments, set a timer, plan in rewards, yadda yadda. I know this stuff by heart! But it seldom works.

This time, afloat with happy birthday self-esteem (I always feel joy at being alive on my bday)...I relaxed. And what came up instead was a goofy, playful child who got the work done fine because she indulged aloud in a random, affectionate, companionable free-associating stream of SILLY SELF TALK that was about delighting in the moment, using a ridiculous pretext for acting it out (actually doing the work was acting it out) and it became actually fun. Rather blew my mind. My T was clapping! She wants me to remember this as a significant breakthrough. Huh!

Nope, not a single solitary syllable from socio-Nbro since the day he walked out of court, entirely defeated. I actually felt sad for him as we saw him walk away.

BUT. I have not missed him for one second, and almost never think about him. I don't have one iota of a feeling of unfinished business with him, nor sadly, with his cowed family. His cruelty and evil behavior toward me was wrong, and I can think of no justification whatsoever for having him in my life ever again.

I really did mean it about PHAMILY. Blood relation holds, on its own, absolutely no more meaning for me. It's how people treat you, and that's just it. (I also had decades of conscience-driven care for Nmom, which I regret in some ways but don't regret in others...and in any case, it's over.) I do miss my gentle Dad but had him long enough to build my certainty that just as evil behavior abounds, moreso does kindness and good behavior. Not perfect, but good enough for me.

And since my D imploded and became cruel to me herself, over time, the absence of biofamily has gotten a lot easier. Except for Dad, I just don't associate biofamily with good things. So they're gone, I'm still here, and I still have love in my life. Friends. Mr. M. And a community I feel a part of, even when I'm floating in a very outer circle. It's all in my head, but so is the happy silly child, and so is spring, and green things, and animals...and it's all just a big pond of possibility. Despite it all.

hugs and incoherence,
Hops

Hops, did I miss the birthday?  I skimmed through this last night before I went to bed and wasn't awake enough to reply.  Just re-reading it now and I notice mention of a birthday?  Was it yesterday?  Happy, Happy Birthday!  Aw, I hope you had a really good day :)

Please don't ever apologise for your thoughts and advice.  I massively appreciate all of you on here for taking the time to talk things through with me (that includes Dr G who keeps it all running for us!).  And it's always good for me to think things through from someone else's perspective or to answer questions, it makes more sense to me when I do that and often affirms what I think or feel, which I love.  So no apologies :)

I am glad you found a goofy way to deal with the exploding Vitamix.  It's interesting how often the standard advice for getting things done doesn't work for some people.  I've joined a couple of very good adult autism groups; diagnosed autistics who are able to explain how they experience various things, what helps and what doesn't.  It's very useful and validating for me - I've been right to keep my son from various people and schools of thought that are actually harmful to him and to do things our own way.  A friend of mine has a son with ADHD, considered unschoolable, unruly, disruptive, etc etc.  They moved off grid and switched to home education and it's like the ADHD vanished.  It hasn't, of course, but that environment suits him so much better that he's thriving now and is no longer a 'misfit'.  Sad that methods of trying to help people have proved to do the opposite, but I'm so glad you found a way to do it your way and got it done :)  yay!

And yes, family and phamily.  It makes me sad that some people are willing to work very hard to destroy but unwilling to do even a tiny bit to build bridges or make amends.  Sad for your bro as well not to have his wonderful sister in his life.  Silly man.  All that fuss and no outcome either!  My mum is the same and still pushing everyone away.  My sister's two older kids have had enough and don't want to see their nan anymore - they're tired of being manipulated and have seen through the money control stuff.  The two younger ones have had very little contact with her anyway as their dad (two different marriages) saw through her straight away and wouldn't put up with any of her nonsense - as a result she hates him and they are rarely in the same room.  It's sad that people destroy themselves that way.  And I think with me, I kind of created a phamily that was similar to my bio family in many ways - largely created through my co-dependency issues, people pleasing nature and endless ability to ignore my own needs and attend to everyone else's.  As I've put my boundaries in place they've melted away and I've found that hard to cope with.  But - third time lucky, right?  Try again, new people, boundaries in place from the outset, tentacles detached firmly and quickly as soon as they appear :)

I'm glad your pond of possibility is in front of you :)  You deserve that, Hopsie, you deserve to be happy and have people around you who recognise how amazing you are xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 30, 2020, 03:48:16 AM
I'm sure you will. You've been beyond responsible with all this.

Maybe one perspective to try out is: Writing a honking big memoir about the past is one thing. Focusing on a sensible legal/trust cover document plan (what you can do, not what you can't) for his future, as best you can accomplish, is....FORWARD.

What you can do is what you can do. You're right. It may be tedious and frustrating to research his future scenarios, but it won't be dependent (imo) on you defending/justifying every single past decision you've made, or relitigating your Nmother's sabotage. (If her sabotage were that effective, you wouldn't have won, which you basically HAVE.)

Anyhow. If I knew anyone with a young adult special needs child, and they wondered what to do and how to face it all, I'd think of you. There's one heroine in the U.K. who has triumphed over all of it: family sabotage and lack of support, public system's massive shortcomings, and more.

And you have a son who's charming, confident, and able to amuse himself for incredibly long stretches and still feels purposefully engaged in life. Just AMAZING.

Yay, you.

hugs
Hops

I am thinking more of a 'how to' guide type thing rather than an endless memoir, Hopsie, and to be fair, as I disproved it all as I went along and have copies of all of that, quite a bit of it will be collating and editing, I think, rather than writing the whole thing out.  I think if I can put together a fact based description of his various needs and how to meet them, backed up by medical reports and/or research papers where necessary and then just a link to "should the issue of previous family difficulties arise please refer to document 1" - which would then just give a fact based breakdown of allegations made and proof they weren't true.  I don't know exactly how I'd word it but you know what I mean, something like a map that just points out where the quick sand and crocodile infested rivers are.  To be honest I think she's given up now, she tried often enough and got nowhere and I've ignored her attempts to get a rise out of me on his birthdays.  And I'm thinking about a kind of instruction manual for son, something that breaks down each task so that he and anyone else who looks after him can use that instead of figuring it out as they go along - how to do his meds, how you need to cook his lunch so he'll eat it, how much liquid you need to try to get into him each day, how to arrange his Lego so he can find the right bits quickly.  Just all the stuff that I do that helps keep him calm, the main aim being for him to learn to do as much for himself as possible but it can also be used by someone else if I'm not around.  I've wanted to do it for ages but not had time but now we're on lockdown ...............it may be possible!  Thank you for the thoughts and reassurance :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 30, 2020, 03:54:45 AM
Trying to catch up. 

Glad you're writing poetry and smoothing out emotions over lost friendships, Tupp.

I've been thinking a lot about the records and files lately.... like you. My gut tells me it's time to have a bonfire.  My head says there's a bit more business before that happens.  I want to talk to the girls and make sure they don't have any questions.  I want to tell them the big truths and be able to back them up with documents, if necessary.

Once I've done that..... I think I'll know it's time to start the fire.

I think you'll know when it's time to set yours too. ((Tupp.))

Lighter

I think you're right, Lighter, that point just comes when you know what to do and how to do it, and you've got the time and energy to deal with it as well.  And I think some of it is tied up in "can the kids deal with this themselves now or do I still need to be ready?".  And that can be a hard call to make, in any situation.  Did you ever hear more from them again?  I found it interesting that my mum sent such a lot of 'I love you, I miss you' stuff to him on his birthday but completely ignored my letter to her just before the lockdown started (which was only a couple of weeks' later).  Has to always be on their terms, I think.  You'll know when it's time.  We might be able to see each other's bonfires across the pond!  lol xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 30, 2020, 11:15:23 AM
Back was less sore when I woke up this morning and got more sore as the day went on.  I've just done a pain relief meditation and fell asleep listening to it - feel better again now.  I think a combination of small amounts of gentle yoga and epsom salts baths at bedtime is helping so it should get better.  Am really feeling the urge to see the osteopath, though, the instant relief would be amazing.

We went out for a little walk at lunchtime in between showers; I think the fresh air helped a bit as well.  Sun is coming out now and my potato kits have arrived as well, although not the soil for them.  Not sure if I got the order wrong or they did, will have to check later, but they're a good size for the patio and I've cleared space to put them.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on April 30, 2020, 12:52:25 PM
Yay!  Homegrown potatoes and all the interesting parts of gardening.  Love that idea, Tupp. 

I hope your soil arrives soon.  I'm trying to figure out what I'm going to do when my back calms down.  Right now it's a mess.

I'm glad yours is feeling better.   Do you have any idea when the next osteopath appointment might happen?

Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on April 30, 2020, 01:04:02 PM
Quote
And I'm thinking about a kind of instruction manual for son, something that breaks down each task so that he and anyone else who looks after him can use that instead of figuring it out as they go along - how to do his meds, how you need to cook his lunch so he'll eat it, how much liquid you need to try to get into him each day, how to arrange his Lego so he can find the right bits quickly.  Just all the stuff that I do that helps keep him calm, the main aim being for him to learn to do as much for himself as possible but it can also be used by someone else if I'm not around.


What a loving, pragmatic legacy that would be for him. Wow, Tupp. It's a very beautiful idea. And in itself, perfect proof of the kind of mother you've been to him.

Much respect,
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on April 30, 2020, 01:24:45 PM
Yay!  Homegrown potatoes and all the interesting parts of gardening.  Love that idea, Tupp. 

I hope your soil arrives soon.  I'm trying to figure out what I'm going to do when my back calms down.  Right now it's a mess.

I'm glad yours is feeling better.   Do you have any idea when the next osteopath appointment might happen?

Lighter

Does the moss gardening aggravate your back, Lighter?  I find even sweeping the yard makes mine hurt.  I do toy with the idea of an allotment but I don't think my back is up to heavy digging and lifting.  Yes, I'll have to sort the soil out, will get on to that tomorrow.

No idea re osteopath yet.  I can't see them lifting the lockdown for at least another month here.  They've only just started adding care home deaths to the daily count and it's just rife.  If we were down to 'normal' flu deaths then I'd be far less worried - I've never had flu despite the fact I probably come into contact with the germs very regularly and although I'm aware it kills some people, I don't worry about it on a daily basis the way I have been with this, because it seems to be so much more infectious and so much more aggressive.  I'd guess they could re-open using PPE, good hygiene and I'd nab the first appointments of the day to try to avoid other people as much as possible as well.  Added to that our osteopath is currently on maternity leave anyway and whether she'd want to risk taking that home to her baby each day I don't know - I know I wouldn't.  They do have another guy at the practice who we may be able to see instead.  But I think it will probably be at least a couple of months before I'm willing to risk it unless something quiet drastic changes in the meantime.  It's eased off quite a bit again now so I don't think I've done anything serious to it.

I do feel at a crossroads now.  I've felt very out of sorts for the last couple of days.  The day to day stress has gone completely (and won't be coming back because there will be no public sector interaction for us for a very long time now).  Son is doing much better so I'm not worrying about him and the initial food/what shall we do/what's happening panic is behind us.  I've jettisoned all annoying people, silenced groups that cause disturbances for me, cut right down on internet time to avoid unpleasant news and resisted reaching out to people who I know will disappoint me.  So I've cleared away everything I don't want and have a completely clean slate in front of me.  Which is good, but also feels weird.  It's very unusual for me not to have some drama or other to deal with.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on April 30, 2020, 04:59:07 PM
So.... what are you going to be doing with all that free time, Tupp?

No drama.  No chaos.  No battle to prepare for and fight. Growing potatoes.  Carrying on with your lovely days preparing food.  No schedule.  Dancing with ds.   But there's a lot more room now. 

I hope you experience spaciousness.... the feeling of lightness when you contemplate the space you've opened up for better things. I'm trying to focus on peace and love lately.   You might understand that without it coming off as hoo hoo.... I think. 

No, working in the moss doesn't hurt my back.  I flipped a HUGE stone, or small boulder and that's what upset my back.  When I get the stones and sand and dig..... that will upset my back too.  I have to be so careful... more careful than I am.  After I flipped that boulder I just stopped DOING and started planning.  I don't want to keep doing things over and over again. I want to have a plan, execute it ONE more time, and be happy with it. 

The Linton roses are beautiful, btw!  I adore them in my yard... very woodsy and perfectly suited to the space.  YES.

Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 01, 2020, 07:18:38 AM
Quote
And I'm thinking about a kind of instruction manual for son, something that breaks down each task so that he and anyone else who looks after him can use that instead of figuring it out as they go along - how to do his meds, how you need to cook his lunch so he'll eat it, how much liquid you need to try to get into him each day, how to arrange his Lego so he can find the right bits quickly.  Just all the stuff that I do that helps keep him calm, the main aim being for him to learn to do as much for himself as possible but it can also be used by someone else if I'm not around.


What a loving, pragmatic legacy that would be for him. Wow, Tupp. It's a very beautiful idea. And in itself, perfect proof of the kind of mother you've been to him.

Much respect,
Hops

Thanks, Hopsie - I've been meaning to do it for ages but time, there's always something else more important to do, but it would be really useful for him and for anyone else, particularly in an emergency, even if the emergency was only that I was out, someone else was here and I got delayed getting back - at least if there's a picture of what colour his roast potatoes need to be they can cook him his tea without me trying to explain shades of brown over the phone!  A ringbinder would be easy as well, to add or change pages as necessary.  I might even try to go hi tech and work out how to do something on his phone or tablet as he prefers those sort of things to books or ringbinders.  Baby steps lol xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 01, 2020, 07:30:56 AM
So.... what are you going to be doing with all that free time, Tupp?

No drama.  No chaos.  No battle to prepare for and fight. Growing potatoes.  Carrying on with your lovely days preparing food.  No schedule.  Dancing with ds.   But there's a lot more room now. 

I hope you experience spaciousness.... the feeling of lightness when you contemplate the space you've opened up for better things. I'm trying to focus on peace and love lately.   You might understand that without it coming off as hoo hoo.... I think. 

No, working in the moss doesn't hurt my back.  I flipped a HUGE stone, or small boulder and that's what upset my back.  When I get the stones and sand and dig..... that will upset my back too.  I have to be so careful... more careful than I am.  After I flipped that boulder I just stopped DOING and started planning.  I don't want to keep doing things over and over again. I want to have a plan, execute it ONE more time, and be happy with it. 

The Linton roses are beautiful, btw!  I adore them in my yard... very woodsy and perfectly suited to the space.  YES.

Lighter

Now this is the funny thing, Lighter - I'm finding I'm spending quite a lot of my time not doing very much.  Not having the urgency or the need to constantly rush or get another job done is nice, but also odd because I'm not used to it.  Last night, for example, I was on Facebook, there's a group on there for a nightclub I used to go to thirty odd years ago, it was an iconic place back in the day, still talked about  - bit like Studio 54, you know, one of those places that everyone knew?  So people chat on there, music is swapped, every now and again someone finds some old photos and puts them up, and I got chatting to a couple of guys on there and it was nice - not flirty, nothing heavy (politics, virus, the world coming to an end) - just music and dancing and not being able to dance as well now and that sort of thing.  It was just a nice way to pass a bit of time.  But when it came time to go to bed I felt guilty because I hadn't washed up or sorted out the laundry, I didn't tidy the lounge up, I could have done some paperwork instead of chatting to randoms, and so on.  And then I told myself I shouldn't feel guilty, I'm entitled to a bit of downtime,  And then I felt bad about people who haven't got anyone to talk to, random on the internet or not, and then I have to tell myself I can't save everyone, I can still enjoy myself even if other people aren't and that's what I'm finding at the minute, the thoughts are tumbling back and forth and I'm sort of constantly having to tell myself or remind myself of things and point out my own alternative point of view.  I think it's just new habits, isn't it, and having that head space that allows for more than 'I've nine things on my list and they all need to be done by 2.30pm because I have to go and pick son up then'.  So I think it's that switch from survival mode into living mode and it's a nice switch, but not necessarily an easy one!  I know you'll know what I mean by that.

So yes, I am just trying to pick myself through the day.  I'm listening to all sorts of music.  I'm trying to use the internet only for positive, constructive, helpful things, not to wade through a mire of misery and unpleasantness and I'm trying to only go on when I've got something specific to look for or do, rather than just scrolling hoping the answer to life pops up in a meme or something.  I'm trying to watch comedies or music shows on TV - I love history and nature documentaries but even those at the moment make me feel down because it just feels like we keep f**king everything up (people in general, I mean, not us personally!).  So just trying to get away from the old survival habits and think a little more broadly than I usually do.  For example, the nice guy from college doesn't work Fridays so son won't get a call today and he really likes it when someone phones him.  I started on my 'he doesn't have a dad, we don't have family, I don't have a partner, woo is me' spiral in my head and then I thought - everyone's off work - can someone else call him?  So I called my friend and her boyfriend is going to ring my son after lunch and have a chat with him.  It's just things like that - I need to take my nose off the glass, as you say, so that I can see the other possibilities now, and most of the time my natural instinct is to keep looking down.  Trying to change :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on May 01, 2020, 01:36:47 PM
What you need is another new hobby: EMBROIDERY! I am positive you need two nice new pillows with the perfect quotes on them:

I shouldn't feel guilty, I'm entitled to a bit of downtime 

and

I can't save everyone, I can still enjoy myself

I really love the way you notice, really think about, and take in opportunities so deeply. Despite the sad trajectories of the pandemic and human malfeasance, you are not just avoiding this changed time or pace, or denying it, or railing about it. You are experiencing it in a lovely, open, receptive way. I think it's a wonderful change in your life and hints of possible change for all life. Whether that comes to pass or not (a better evolutionary change) ... it is still FORWARD, in a great way, for your own precious life.

And I love the way you simply solved a phone call for your son. So straightforwardly kind -- to him and to yourself. And you are also giving friend's hubby a chance to tap into how he just made a difference for someone too. Good positivity all around.

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 02, 2020, 04:26:13 AM
What you need is another new hobby: EMBROIDERY! I am positive you need two nice new pillows with the perfect quotes on them:

I shouldn't feel guilty, I'm entitled to a bit of downtime 

and

I can't save everyone, I can still enjoy myself

I really love the way you notice, really think about, and take in opportunities so deeply. Despite the sad trajectories of the pandemic and human malfeasance, you are not just avoiding this changed time or pace, or denying it, or railing about it. You are experiencing it in a lovely, open, receptive way. I think it's a wonderful change in your life and hints of possible change for all life. Whether that comes to pass or not (a better evolutionary change) ... it is still FORWARD, in a great way, for your own precious life.

And I love the way you simply solved a phone call for your son. So straightforwardly kind -- to him and to yourself. And you are also giving friend's hubby a chance to tap into how he just made a difference for someone too. Good positivity all around.

Hugs
Hops

Aw thanks, Hops :)  To be honest I sometimes wish I didn't think so much.  It gives me a headache.  Sometimes I'm envious of people who only think about what's happening in the next five minutes.  It must be simpler at times.  But then equally I like figuring stuff out as well so I'd probably get bored :)

Yes the phone call was great, I'm amazed at how much my son is engaging with that.  There is a girl from college who phones him a lot and I think he's not enjoying talking to her; she's really struggling to cope and I think it's been a bit much so the last few times she called he didn't answer.  It's a hard one for me - he's his own person, obviously, so I don't want to make him do anything.  Equally my heart goes out to her; I know what it's like when no-one wants to talk to you when you're having a hard time.  And I know how much my son likes it when someone calls him (I know how much I like it as well).  This is the parenting stuff I find tricky; I don't want him to be at anyone's beck and call and never think of himself but equally I think life might be easier in the long run if he learns a bit of give and take and is willing to do something small if it makes someone feel better every now and again.  So we had a chat after dinner and talked about friends and people being lonely and stuff like that and I suggested that he just call her and talk for five minutes, in case she was struggling to cope with it all.  And he did, bless him, he set the timer so it was exactly five minutes, he reassured her it will all be easier once the lockdown is over and suggested that she watch tutorials on YouTube to teach herself stuff while she's off college.  He's so polite on the phone as well, it's so cute to hear him.  And yes, it was nice of my friend's boyfriend to do that, he offered to make it a regular thing so that was nice as well.

I have managed to motivate myself a bit more this morning but honestly, it's 9.30am here and I could quite happily go back to bed now!
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on May 02, 2020, 03:09:26 PM
It pleases my heart to hear friend's bf called ds and will make it a regular thing.  You resolved that for your boy with ease,  so it seems.

Tupp... do you find you're accessing more creativity and problem-solving skills at a level you can note and rate?

Yesterday I was in the yard.... trying to figure out things I'll change and keep the same and there was this explosion of creativity I've missed.  Things I never considered just came to me.... BIG difference for me.

I upset my back a couple of days ago and have it iced since yesterday.  It's so much better, but I'm not jumping back into activity.  I'm taking good care and healing completely.  Doing what doesn't aggravate as the first day of pain I just didn't do everything I could.  Second day I really stopped and did everything I could, as I am today and I don't feel bad about it.

If you need to stay tucked in the covers.... you can do that. 

Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 03, 2020, 04:21:58 AM
It pleases my heart to hear friend's bf called ds and will make it a regular thing.  You resolved that for your boy with ease,  so it seems.

Tupp... do you find you're accessing more creativity and problem-solving skills at a level you can note and rate?

Yesterday I was in the yard.... trying to figure out things I'll change and keep the same and there was this explosion of creativity I've missed.  Things I never considered just came to me.... BIG difference for me.

I upset my back a couple of days ago and have it iced since yesterday.  It's so much better, but I'm not jumping back into activity.  I'm taking good care and healing completely.  Doing what doesn't aggravate as the first day of pain I just didn't do everything I could.  Second day I really stopped and did everything I could, as I am today and I don't feel bad about it.

If you need to stay tucked in the covers.... you can do that. 

Lighter

I hope your back feels better soon, Lighter, backs are funny things!  So easy to overdo it, and I sometimes find it's a few days before I realise how much I've done to it.  Good that the ice helps, do you sit with a pack strapped on it?

I am finding I have lots of ideas but I'm trying to rein myself in.  I get grand plans, which I start without finishing other unfinished projects, or without planning or organising well enough, and then as soon as I run out of time/money/enthusiasm it becomes another unfinished project that sits looking at me all the time.  So I'm trying to focus on finishing current projects off and using things we've already got in the house.  Part of that for me is always decluttering, partly because I find things that I can do something else with and partly because I can use furniture differently in different rooms if I don't need to put certain things in or on it.  I've a big bag of fabric, old curtains, old clothes and so on that I can use for lots of different things, as well as changing current clothes by dying them or re-cutting or something.  So re-use and finish off is my current project :)

One thing I have noticed the last few days is that my attitude to the paperwork has changed.  I usually just avoid looking at it; I almost never look at the whole bookcase.  If I need a file I just grab that one and avoid looking at everything else.  But just lately I have been looking at it and I find myself thinking, "I am coming for you now".  It feels like me conquering it is a done deal now, whereas in the past it's always felt like a battle that I probably wouldn't win.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on May 03, 2020, 11:28:37 AM
Two questions, Tupp:

1) How did you get in my house? So glad you came by!

I start without finishing other unfinished projects, or without planning or organising well enough, and then as soon as I run out of time/money/enthusiasm it becomes another unfinished project that sits looking at me all the time.

2) When is the victory parade? I want to enter a float. It'll feature Amazons.

I find myself thinking, "I am coming for you now"

The emoticon keys don't work for me on VESMB any more but consider this a line of all the happy ones! _______________________________

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on May 03, 2020, 01:23:21 PM
Tupp, read the second story here about an evil MIL, and especially read the Comments. (Just click at the bottom on Comment to see them.)

https://slate.com/comments/human-interest/2020/04/fun-parents-during-quarantine-care-and-feeding.html

SO many roars of outrage at how this young mother was treated, and it reminded so much of what you lived through. In part, but still validating, I hope.

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 03, 2020, 02:07:39 PM
Tupp, read the second story here about an evil MIL, and especially read the Comments. (Just click at the bottom on Comment to see them.)

https://slate.com/comments/human-interest/2020/04/fun-parents-during-quarantine-care-and-feeding.html

SO many roars of outrage at how this young mother was treated, and it reminded so much of what you lived through. In part, but still validating, I hope.

hugs
Hops

Ooh Hopsie, that is exactly like my mum, it gave me chills reading that.  She used to watch my son when I was at work and caused so many problems that she was eventually the reason I gave up work - he'd been through too much to go through childminders by that time so I just stopped completely.  Yes she did the trying for custody when I was unwell, too, despite the fact every report that had been written about me said I was a good mum with good awareness of my son's needs and capability to meet them.  And then of course all the allegations about my parenting over the years was always finished off with a statement that she was happy to have him.  Even the feeding and napping stuff, she used to feed him so much crap when I was always very careful to keep his diet healthy, she'd let him sleep wherever he fell down instead of putting him in his cot, one time she gave him Calpol even though I'd told her he already had some and then claimed I'd never said anything and re-told the story as if I were the negligent one for not telling her.  I hope that mum gets strong enough to tell her to do one, and her husband needs to grow a pair as well.  Free childcare is never worth putting up with that (and my mum's still banging on about how much she did for her grandsons when they were babies).  I've always been very glad that grandparents don't have any rights in this country, and neither do dads if their name isn't on the birth certificate.  That's been a godsend for me xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 03, 2020, 02:17:30 PM
Two questions, Tupp:

1) How did you get in my house? So glad you came by!

I start without finishing other unfinished projects, or without planning or organising well enough, and then as soon as I run out of time/money/enthusiasm it becomes another unfinished project that sits looking at me all the time.

2) When is the victory parade? I want to enter a float. It'll feature Amazons.

I find myself thinking, "I am coming for you now"

The emoticon keys don't work for me on VESMB any more but consider this a line of all the happy ones! _______________________________

hugs
Hops

Hops you are funny :)  I think lots of people end up with half finished projects.  I've got so many, I just start things and I do enjoy it but then other things become more important and before I know it something's been half done for a year and it feels like more effort to work out where you'd got to than it is to start something else?  But I'm focusing on not spending cash, basically, we've got this bit of extra money coming in and I want to save that so I'll be doing as much as I can from home without spending wherever possible.  And yes, the paperwork!  I'm not at the point of tackling it yet but I'm feel slightly outraged at if for having the audacity to be in my home :)  Which is better than feeling like I'm carrying it round the whole time :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on May 04, 2020, 03:56:03 AM
Yes, Tupp.  Ice packs... sometimes strapped on.

I'm very glad you haven't had to fight Grandparent visitation and Father's rights battles this whole time too.

Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 04, 2020, 04:13:15 AM
Yes, Tupp.  Ice packs... sometimes strapped on.

I'm very glad you haven't had to fight Grandparent visitation and Father's rights battles this whole time too.

Lighter

Is it easing off, Lighter?  I hope it feels better soon, I find back pain very debilitating, it's a large area to manage!  Yes very grateful for that, I do feel sorry for people who are alienated by a parent or child where grandchildren are concerned but whenever I hear someone talking about grandparents rights it sends shivers down my spine.  We all bring our own experience to the picture don't we, and I've no faith in anyone in officialdome to make a decision in the right way, so many of them seem to have their own issues as well.  Someone I knew escaped an abusive relationship; she was left permanently disabled by her husband and their son was terrified of him but a judge still ordered that the boy see him once a fortnight.  It was supervised so he wasn't physically harmed but the trauma each time was just soul destroying for both of them.  Awful situation.  Did you get the pink cart into the bedroom yet? :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 05, 2020, 05:20:45 AM
Yesterday was a really good day, today I'm exhausted.  It's funny how it ebbs and flows like that.  I've got lots of little things I can get on with, if I can ever stop watching the birds :)  Lol xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on May 05, 2020, 12:45:58 PM
Bird-watching is very very important, imo.

Nature is the sane thing right now, the beautiful thing.
It is sometimes cruel but also joyous and vibrant and all beauty starts there.
(Or, it doesn't care when it's ugly or beautiful...but we humans can take its beauty into our beings and turn it into joy and peace and gratitude.)

Glad you're enjoying it, Tupp!

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on May 05, 2020, 01:18:00 PM
Whew..... yes, my back is easing off, Tupp.

And.... mention of Grandparent rights sent me reacting... I wrote several super long posts.  I don't want that energy here, anywhere on the board right now, so I'll just say this.

I'm grateful you didn't have to go through many legal battles over grandparent rights OR legal battles with your son's biodad.  That's a blessing bestowed on you..... I'm so grateful that's something we don't have in common.  Truly.  Blessings.

I'm glad you're feeling better.  Watching the birds is communing with joy.  You have every right to joy, Tupp.  Just relax into it, let it wash over you... notice how it feels, and revel in the warmth. 

You've arrived.

You're home.

Lighter

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 06, 2020, 05:45:07 AM
Bird-watching is very very important, imo.

Nature is the sane thing right now, the beautiful thing.
It is sometimes cruel but also joyous and vibrant and all beauty starts there.
(Or, it doesn't care when it's ugly or beautiful...but we humans can take its beauty into our beings and turn it into joy and peace and gratitude.)

Glad you're enjoying it, Tupp!

hugs
Hops

It's lovely, Hops, I'm going to look up the different kinds of foods different birds like and try to put out more of a selection for them.  Another little lockdown project!  Lol xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 06, 2020, 05:51:34 AM
Whew..... yes, my back is easing off, Tupp.

And.... mention of Grandparent rights sent me reacting... I wrote several super long posts.  I don't want that energy here, anywhere on the board right now, so I'll just say this.

I'm grateful you didn't have to go through many legal battles over grandparent rights OR legal battles with your son's biodad.  That's a blessing bestowed on you..... I'm so grateful that's something we don't have in common.  Truly.  Blessings.

I'm glad you're feeling better.  Watching the birds is communing with joy.  You have every right to joy, Tupp.  Just relax into it, let it wash over you... notice how it feels, and revel in the warmth. 

You've arrived.

You're home.

Lighter

I'm glad your back's better, Lighter, and I'm sorry the mention of grandparents rights caused such a strong reaction.  The wounds run very deep, don't they?  It's good to write it all out, I've written so much over the years, just to get it out of my system and sometimes just to see if it sounds as mad in black and white as it seems to be in my head.  Blooming people.

Thank you for the good wishes, I appreciate them so much xx  I am finding one of the benefits of the lockdown is that when/if I have a strong reaction to something I can just let it be.  I don't have to battle on doing other things while all of that rages inside me.  I can feel it, listen to it, soothe or reason with it and then just watch it vaporise and that's nice.  It's not necessarily a fast process but I do feel like things are coming up and just working themselves out because I'm not constantly adding petrol to the fire.

Today is nice and quiet.  I am just pottering and doing what I feel needs to be done, son is upstairs creating his works of genius which are, and I quote, "too difficult for you to understand, Mum".  Lol, and he's probably right :)   I am on one hand heart broken for other people and on the other happy for myself.  It's an odd situation to be in.

I will keep my fingers crossed that your back stays well now :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on May 06, 2020, 06:58:23 AM
Quote
his works of genius which are, and I quote, "too difficult for you to understand, Mum"

Gosh, I'm rolling. He is so spunky and functional and adorable. Psychologically, he seems to me so WELL. Robust, even. Way more than I am!

Enjoy your pottering about, Tupp. Hoping something you can plant will grow for you too.

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 06, 2020, 01:59:42 PM
Quote
his works of genius which are, and I quote, "too difficult for you to understand, Mum"

Gosh, I'm rolling. He is so spunky and functional and adorable. Psychologically, he seems to me so WELL. Robust, even. Way more than I am!

Enjoy your pottering about, Tupp. Hoping something you can plant will grow for you too.

hugs
Hops

He is all of those things, Hopsie, honestly, if you ever read any of his assessments and realised how much he finds difficult to do and how difficult he finds every day tasks his whole demeanour and attitude to life is just amazing.  He's just having a great time.  I think one of the great things about autism (for him, anyway) is that he keeps his whole world around him like a bubble, so as long as no-one pops the bubble he's really happy.  We're both having a very nice time!  Lol xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 10, 2020, 10:59:51 AM
An odd day today.  My friends seem to be falling apart around me.  Another one has just called; her husband has moved out after yet another explosive row.  Not entirely due to the lockdown, they've been having problems for years but the current situation is moving things to a head now.  She was telling me of her conversation with her niece, who is looking after Covid patients after they come out of ICU but before they go home.  They've lost two surgeons and a cleaner at her hospital, as well as numerous patients.  They were posting the ages of patients in ICU at the moment on Twitter and only 2 are over 70.  The rest are all younger, the youngest at the moment being 22 (in their hospital).  It's such sobering news and so close to home now as well.  Our mad, bumbling Prime Minister is due to announce later today, it seems, that people should just kind of go out but be careful.  ICU doctors and various medical professionals are all over the internet begging people to stay at home, alongside photographs of the police breaking up VE day gatherings because it is, of course, important to celebrate the end of something that happened 75 years ago whilst completely ignoring the fact that we've lost more to Covid now than we did during the Blitz.  I don't get the lack of knowledge or understanding.  Every bit of information in the world is on the internet.  Anyone can look it up.  And yet so many don't.  I just don't get it.

So it's weird; there's this kind of quiet apocalyptic world brewing outside with people fighting a losing battle on the internet trying to get people to understand how dangerous this is.  Friends are falling apart around me, relationships are breaking down - and I'm online trying to track down places that we can get deliveries from because the supermarket one isn't really doing enough, feeling calm and happy and relaxed.  My friend's just sobbed her way through the most recent problem with her husband and then when she asked me how we were I felt guilty about saying we're doing really well and we're both really happy.  I feel completely at odds with almost everyone else's experience right now and it's an odd place to be in.  Part of me wonders if I ought to do more to try to help others but another part of me knows that inviting other people in can make things harder for me, so I'm resisting.  If I've got some cash left over at the end of this month I might donate it to the food bank or the homeless shelter.  That would be helping without me having to get too involved.

It's very windy and a lady just went by trying to teach her little girl how to ride a bike.  I can remember my dad teaching me to ride without stabilisers and I was doing great until I realised he wasn't behind me, and at that point I crashed into the fence :) I feel like someone's taken my stabilisers off but I'm not wobbling yet :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on May 10, 2020, 11:24:07 AM
I celebrate you not wobbling, Tupp!
I think you and son are among the stablizers of society.
Not from doing doing doing, but from keeping your own peace and serenity front and center. I am really glad for you. And I sure hope the groceries issue gets better, soon.

Sorry about your married friend's suffering but it sounds necessary, like surgery, and when she heals her life will be better. She can't see that now.

I hope you'll continue on your serene path, staying safe and sane. Nothing wrong with it whatsoever, and that in its own way is a contribution to the world. You are invaluable, there's no price on happiness and it lifts my heart to hear about it.

And you are SUCH a good writer. Your perspective on U.K. culture in this crisis is just amazing, and you write it so well. Rich with insight and well chosen details.

I love reading your posts.

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 11, 2020, 04:14:36 AM
I celebrate you not wobbling, Tupp!
I think you and son are among the stablizers of society.
Not from doing doing doing, but from keeping your own peace and serenity front and center. I am really glad for you. And I sure hope the groceries issue gets better, soon.

Sorry about your married friend's suffering but it sounds necessary, like surgery, and when she heals her life will be better. She can't see that now.

I hope you'll continue on your serene path, staying safe and sane. Nothing wrong with it whatsoever, and that in its own way is a contribution to the world. You are invaluable, there's no price on happiness and it lifts my heart to hear about it.

And you are SUCH a good writer. Your perspective on U.K. culture in this crisis is just amazing, and you write it so well. Rich with insight and well chosen details.

I love reading your posts.

hugs
Hops

That's nice of you to say Hopsie, thanks, I generally get called a fucking lefty twat if I post anything online anywhere else :) 

Yes my married friend, it still makes me sad that so many women put up with such unhappy relationships, they've been having problems for years and it's just kept limping along, personally I think they will get back together so I've been careful to be supportive without directly criticising him (I've burnt my fingers like that before!)

Yes I feel very lucky that we're doing okay at the moment, our PM made an announcement last night whereby basically people on low incomes will be going back to work and will just have to take their chances.  People who can work from home will continue to do so.  That's mostly professional type jobs, isn't it, you can't deliver parcels or empty bins from home.  Has firmly placed the responsibility for dealing with this on the shoulders of the people.  People are still praising him.  Sheesh.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 11, 2020, 04:20:50 AM
Tupp,
You could be describing what is going on here as well. Nothing makes sense when you hear people arguing about this. I live in Texas and the governor mandated salons to be closed until further notice and a salon owner decided to open anyway. Every time she was made to close it, she would go back and re-open it until finally she was taken to court and told the judge that when she left, she would open again. So he put her in jail.

The governor intervened and said that the mandate was not actually a law and she shouldnt have been put in jail, leaving EVERYONE confused about what the heck was going on--so he opened ALL the salons. It's a mess. And that's just ONE state. Each state is deciding for itself what it is going to do. Some states are opening up for business, so a neighboring state has hundreds of people drive across the state line to shop. And then go home with whatever the bought, and whatever else they picked up in the way of germs.

I am like you--I feel peaceful for the most part, but what's going on around me is crazy making.  Like you, I have kids who are dealing with underlying diseases and this is one more thing on top of it. Mostly they do okay, but some days I worry. I guess wobbling would be a good word for those days. I'm so glad you and your son are in such a good place now.

It's 8 pm here and Mother's day is over. The big rush at work is over and this weekend usually heralds the last of the busy time til the holidays in the winter. It's like letting all the air out the tires. But I'm not there, and probably won't be. And I am both okay with that and sad. It's a good reminder that endings are also beginnings.

CB

Yes that is just the same here, CB, I think that an awful lot of people in positions of power are there because of the families they were born into and because they're good manipulators, essentially - they're not there because they're actually good at the job and we're really seeing that now.  I had forgotten it was Mother's Day across the pond :)  Endings are also beginnings is how I keep thinking about things at the moment - it's bittersweet, isn't it?

Yes the kids are a worry, even when they're big!  Son was struggling to understand - the PM's saying schools will be open again next month, pubs the month after that and son equates lockdown lifted with virus gone.  He didn't understand the virus is still there.  I've explained it to him that it's like a house being on fire and you can't go back into the house until the fire is out.  At the moment the PM is telling people it's okay to go into a building that's still burning.  I think that kind of made more sense to him.  He's been so good about it all, bless him.

Salons aren't essential, are they?  This is the problem - people will use stuff if it's open and it will just keep spreading.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 11, 2020, 01:20:05 PM
I am seeing patterns now.  Last night's Parliamentary faff has made me anxious today, not least because so many people are just going out now.  As the day has gone on my left side has got more and more painful - just the left, the right hand side is fine.  I've found it difficult to get going today and have just focused on food.  I realised that I could store tins and dry stuff on top of the cupboard.  It's very high up (I'd need a ladder to get up there) but for back up and emergency food it would do the job.  I've put in a big order with the supermarket and the website crashed - I'm guessing lots of people are thinking the same as me, that the numbers of infected and ill people will go up again now so they'd best stock up in case there's another lockdown.  I got an order through to the grocer so I can collect that Wednesday morning - they leave it outside the shop so there's no contact.

Son has been fed up about the conflicting messages he's receiving from the government and news sources and I can't say I blame him.  I've just told him we need to wait until there's a cure or a vaccine and we don't know when that will come.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on May 11, 2020, 02:15:40 PM
Get on top of that pain..... focus on it.  Give it attention.  Ask it what it needs, Tupp.


Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 12, 2020, 05:55:14 AM
Get on top of that pain..... focus on it.  Give it attention.  Ask it what it needs, Tupp.


Lighter

Thanks, Lighter, I've been thinking about it a lot and I think it's that sense of being thrown under the bus again - people who could make choices that benefit other people not doing so, thereby making an already difficult situation much harder.  The current situation has really thrown the attitudes toward disability into sharp focus again - so many people complaining that they haven't been able to go out for two months, but no care towards vulnerable people who are quite likely going to have to stay in for many more months yet, even years, or the NHS staff who are literally in a life threatening situation every time they go to work now, people who can't stay home from work because they won't get paid if they do, bus drivers, bin men, shop staff, all those people who haven't got a choice at the minute about how this goes for them.  So when so many are thinking only of their social life and holiday plans, nothing else, it's been hard to read and be aware of, I think.  It's troubled me hugely.  We can stay in but it would be nice if you knew everyone was in your corner and others were willing to be uncomfortable a bit longer so that you could at least get out to the library again, you know?  Ours is quite a small world anyway so knowing so many are happy for us to live in an even smaller one for longer is hard.  So I try not to think outwards but it's hard not to connect with the outside world at all as it is just everywhere right now.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on May 12, 2020, 08:40:48 AM
(((((Tupp)))))

I hear you--it hurts a whole lot to feel so marginalized.

When people, culture, politics are so disappointing, or even beyond belief, the only thing that helps me regain my sense of possibility is to double-hunker down. I have to throttle back on the amount of news I'm absorbing, blow by blow. Getting back into a more-interior world, focusing on small beauties, good moments with good people, and trusting nature...can help.

If not always kind, I do know that nature is big enough to absorb it all.
I think that's a vague description of my sense of spirituality too.
Sometimes I just have to get more cosmic about the world.

Micro and macro.
I'm trying to Desiderata my way through.
When justice is out of immediate reach, I can comfort myself with fantasies of change, even change I won't be around to see.

You're not alone. But you are sounding (understandably) overdosed on the scary details. Remember you are still safe and sane. And your son is calm and we're a long way away from winter.

Maybe a little less online reading for a couple days would help? Or a rich and wonderful novel that will sweep you away into another world or time?

Be good to yourself, dear Tupp. All things do pass.

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 12, 2020, 01:21:34 PM
Thanks, Hops.  I had a nap and did some yoga; both helped.  I'm just cooking tea and then I'm going in the bath.  I feel better than I did.  I'm not taking in a massive amount of news, just enough to know what's going on and it's terrifying.  People aren't asking, "what is it safe to do?", they're asking, "What are we allowed to do?".  And I find that so baffling that so many will genuinely let that ridiculous man who, whatever you think of the policies and politics, literally can't string a sentence together or answer a simple question about the current situation, decide what they do in a situation that's potentially so dangerous.  No-one would let someone who doesn't know what they're doing fix the brakes on their car, why do people do it in situations like this?

So I veered between writing reams and plastering it all over social media to phoning everyone I know to quote statistics and risk factors at them to making posters and putting them in the window for passersby to be aware and then I just thought, all of these people are capable of checking this for themselves, the same way I have.  Why they chose not to I don't know, but they don't so I need to focus inward, like you said, and concentrate on myself and boy.  So - I would normally say onwards and upwards but now I think it's inwards and downwards!  Thank you for the thoughts xx xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on May 13, 2020, 02:40:05 PM
((Tupp))

It seems to me the world is making choices about herd immunity kicking in 2 years down the road.  Those at greater risk are going to have to continue being super careful.  Those who feel they're not at risk will continue to throw the dice.  I don't see you throwing the dice, Tupp. 

I'm glad you're finding serenity and peace inside your home, bc it might be something you continue with for a much longer time than expected.  If that's the case, how do you feel about it?

I don't fear for you.  I think you'll turn it into something deeper, happier, richer than it is now and that's a gift. 

The people pushing to open things up... the Swedes who never shut down..... those who  vote to get the economy back on track at the expense of spreading COVID 19... they're not evil, IMO.  They're scared, and struggling and they're backs are against he wall, IMO.  It's not just politicians trying to score points. It's people trying to keep their business and homes. Trying to keep their life style and find normal again. 

It's like everything else.  Polar opposite opinions and those in between.  Tunnel vision for the people living in their limbic systems.... zero perspective, which is frustrating, but when they can't see.... they truly can't see.  People do better when they know better.

I go in and out of being OK.... of making sense then reading or seeing something I react to.  The ASPDs are mixed in with the fearful people.... they're whipping them up..... and it's hard to stay level when I recognize them... their actions.

Hopefully you can stay level in your space, in the moment.  One thing for sure is, this will continue marching on, no matter how you feel about it. \If you accept it, get solid in that acceptance, things should feel better for you.

Lighter





 

 

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on May 13, 2020, 03:11:07 PM
Wow, Lighter.
Thanks.

The ASPDs mixing among the fearful people.
I don't wanna see them meet them think about them
but that sounds very perceptive  to me.

I like your advice to Tupp, a lot.
Gonna borry it.

hugs both,
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 13, 2020, 04:06:53 PM
((Tupp))

It seems to me the world is making choices about herd immunity kicking in 2 years down the road.  Those at greater risk are going to have to continue being super careful.  Those who feel they're not at risk will continue to throw the dice.  I don't see you throwing the dice, Tupp. 

I'm glad you're finding serenity and peace inside your home, bc it might be something you continue with for a much longer time than expected.  If that's the case, how do you feel about it?

I don't fear for you.  I think you'll turn it into something deeper, happier, richer than it is now and that's a gift. 

The people pushing to open things up... the Swedes who never shut down..... those who  vote to get the economy back on track at the expense of spreading COVID 19... they're not evil, IMO.  They're scared, and struggling and they're backs are against he wall, IMO.  It's not just politicians trying to score points. It's people trying to keep their business and homes. Trying to keep their life style and find normal again. 

It's like everything else.  Polar opposite opinions and those in between.  Tunnel vision for the people living in their limbic systems.... zero perspective, which is frustrating, but when they can't see.... they truly can't see.  People do better when they know better.

I go in and out of being OK.... of making sense then reading or seeing something I react to.  The ASPDs are mixed in with the fearful people.... they're whipping them up..... and it's hard to stay level when I recognize them... their actions.

Hopefully you can stay level in your space, in the moment.  One thing for sure is, this will continue marching on, no matter how you feel about it. \If you accept it, get solid in that acceptance, things should feel better for you.

Lighter

Thanks, Lighter.  From what I've read you can't get herd immunity, because there doesn't seem to be any acquired immunity to the virus?  As I understand it you can get it more than once and if that's the case, I don't see how they can achieve herd immunity if no-one actually becomes immune?  I don't understand what the game plan is.  So that's my understanding of it at the moment, although equally from what I read it's still all so new and everything's happened so fast that they're playing catch up all the time.

I don't feel good about carrying on like this indefinitely, not least because they will keep coming after the sick and disabled for the money they've lost, in this country at least.  I do see the tax dodging billionaires as evil.  They make choices to exploit people and resources, create huge amounts of environmental damage and poverty and then don't even have the decency to pay proper taxes.  No-one would have to go back to work if governments raided the tax havens; everyone could shut down completely until this died off on its own.  But the focus is always on protecting wealth, however unscrupulously it's been achieved and that doesn't sit well with me, particularly when watching so many suffer because of it.  We've already got through ten years of austerity, which has been very hard.  I am now seeing a year or two indoors, after which time there will be, I envisage, zero chance of any help or support for son at all.  They've already cut services to the bone over the last ten years and people still kept voting for them so I don't envisage that changing.  So that long term outlook doesn't make me feel good or positive.  I'm kind of tired of having to survive, you know?  And of being around people, directly or indirectly, who keep making mine and my son's life harder because of their (unnecessary) choices.  So that gets to me as well.  I don't want to live in a society that considers me and my son to be disposable and thinks nothing of forcing us to stay inside indefinitely so that other people can go shopping whenever they want to.

I assumed, wrongly, that we'd stay in lockdown until they got the numbers down to almost nothing.  I kind of envisaged being in lockdown another couple of months, then staying in for a couple more after that just to be on the safe side and then things being reasonable in terms of safety again.  But to see them just throw the gates open, making people on low incomes go to work, without PPE, and having to use public transport because there's no other way to get there whilst the wealthy people all get to carry on staying at home safely, it's genocide and it sickens me to my stomach.  There's no other way to look at that.  These people aren't wealthy, they barely make enough to cover their living expenses, but they're the ones who have to risk this while the ones who don't need the money can stay indoors.  On the news they're referring to them as 'low skilled'; the rhetoric makes me sick.  They're low paid, not low skilled, they're the ones that keep the country running.  They can't even be bothered to talk about them in a nice way.

So I think acceptance for me is a no; I'll never accept inequality.  I can stay indoors, do yoga, keep myself busy but it's very superficial, you know?  There's no depth to a life like that and that bothers me over a long period, particularly when the death toll keeps going up.  And equally we can't stay inside for ever - son needs treatments for his health problems; currently they're not open anyway but once they are he'll need to go in because not going is affecting him.  So each time either one of us goes out, or gets a delivery, that risk is there again, and for longer because they're making no attempt to get in front of this and stamp it out.  It's effectively made it more dangerous for us even if we do stay in as much as possible.

What are ASPDs? xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on May 13, 2020, 09:41:34 PM
Whoa ((((Tupp)))).

I hear you, believe you, and see what you see.

BUUUUUT...to keep yourself in balance with this pessismistic/realistic view...sounds like maybe a dose of positive would help?

To quote our simple but profound Mr. Rogers: Look for the helpers.

Big hugs and hopes you can turn within again, until you feel able to connect with whatever form of resistance and solidarity that makes sense for you....

Hang in there, remember your well being, be as present as you're able....it IS always possible that disasters and apocalyptic visions won't be as bad as predicted....possible not guaranteed, and I'm no fan of denial, but I am a fan of staying mentally well. This rabbit hole goes deep and you don't want to get so far down you can no longer see the sunlight....

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 14, 2020, 05:19:23 AM
Thank you, Hops and Lighter.  Sorry for the meltdown.  I feel better now.  I am so scared for other people, even more than myself.  The mum of one of son's classmates texted this morning to say she'd taken her daughter out shopping.  Her daughter is in the same vulnerable category as my son but because of the Government's messages, people think it's safe now.  I feel like the mum in the Terminator films, when she's trying to get them to understand that there's a disaster coming and everyone thinks she's nuts.  I appreciate I know more people who've already been terribly affected by this because I know more people with health problems and disabilities and, because of my age, everyone in my social circle has parents who are more vulnerable.  So it's much closer to home for me than it is for a lot of people and I get that, but it still bothers me hugely that so many don't look any further than the end of their garden path.

Anyway.  I am up and dressed.  Son is sorted, meds done, washing put away, he is recommencing his build on the time machine.  I am going out in a minute to collect our grocery order (can't deliver from the farm shop but you can order and then collect at the door).  I've a 'normal' shop coming tomorrow and have found a fishmonger that can deliver next week and finally found a health food shop that still has some flour, that should get here next week as well.  I've started my own yeast in the kitchen (I didn't even know you could make your own yeast, I thought it was some magic factory process).  I've ordered the soil for the potatoes to be planted in to.  I think I'm going to grow herbs in the pots by the door and maybe make some planters for peas and beans.  I am planning to stock up as much as possible; I think we're going to see a big spike in cases again and a further lockdown, much more severe than the last one.  So I'm planning for that; hope for the best, prepare for the worst, right?

I had a cry about leaving my previous flat again and about how this whole move hasn't worked out well for us, one or two points aside.  I think just letting it out sometimes helps.  I've fed the birds.  One of the cats fell out of the tree this morning which made me laugh (he didn't hurt himself, just over balanced).  Normal service has been resumed.  Sorry for the hissy fit.  Thank you for listening xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on May 14, 2020, 06:31:30 AM
Tupp, honey, why do you apologize?
Please, no need for that! Not here!

If we're not entitled to melt down when we're feeling pain or fear, then what's the point of finding our voices? I'm glad you've gotten so much of it out on this page, and then had a cleansing cry. Good for you. That's better than bottling it up, going numb, and then getting ill. (Brewing tea, passing tissues, putting on classical....)

I think you're doing a magnificent job of functioning not just practically, but also emotionally. If you were incapable of being worried about the vulnerable or weeping about what's happening, you'd really be checked out.

You get to choose your own balance of engagement with news and pandemic updates, versus that peaceful homey vibe. I loved hearing how many preparations for growing a few things you've done. Plants keep us literally grounded in the earth, its vitality.

If you were a plant I'd be giving you some extra compost around now. So glad food orders are getting sorted...and fresh fish!

Big hugs and comfort,
Hops

PS Never apologize for being real.

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 14, 2020, 07:29:02 AM
Thanks, Hops.  Now I feel an urge to apologise for apologising :)  Lol.  Thank you for the understanding.  I am restricting news and trying to keep things in check but my little trip to the farm shop just freaked me out.  I walk past a supermarket and a garden centre to get to it.  Not a mask in sight, people standing close to one another, the garden centre in particular is mostly elderly people.  I'm not understanding why more vulnerable people aren't protecting themselves better?  Anyway, I walked by, tried not to think about it.  I got a huge sack of spuds from the farm shop along with a chicken, some cheese, a lovely loaf of fresh home made bread and some fresh fruit and veg, all from local farms so it's good quality and I do like it when food hasn't been flown half way round the world.  I had big chunks of fresh bread with honey when I got home and will roast the chicken tonight.  The fish is mostly for son; I'm not mad keen on fish myself but he eats a lot of it so I got enough to fill one of the freezer drawers so that will keep him going for a while.

I would like some extra compost for my feet :)  Lol.  Thank you for the understanding xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 14, 2020, 01:46:53 PM
I saw this on the internet today and it really rang a bell with me:

If you’re worried about what everyone else is thinking, chances are you’re not thinking about yourself.
Fitting in, looking outside for approval, feeling the need to be ‘more’, worrying about what other people think, saying yes when you mean no - are all symptoms of self betrayal and a serious lack of self love. ☹️ The roots of self betrayal are often found in childhood. Not being seen or listened to, being told you’re ‘too much’ or that your feelings aren’t valid. Having to keep quiet to keep the peace and pushing your wants to the back of the queue - are all coping mechanisms we learn in order to survive.
The message we tell ourselves is that if we act small and compliant - if we play the good girl or good boy we’ll find a way to be loved and we’ll be safe.
But time goes on, we forget our true authentic selves.
We trust ourselves less and less and increasingly need other people’s approval to feel whole.
It’s time to break free from the toxic patterns and come back to ourselves.
To do this, start by saying ‘No’ to the things you don’t want to do.
Where you can, stop seeing the people who make you feel anxious or not good enough.
Try to listen to your intuition and forgive yourself when it’s wrong.
In a quiet corner, try to imagine what your life would look like if you didn’t need anyone else’s approval.
Tell yourself over and over that you are good enough just the way you are.
Because guess what folks... you are.

It's so relevant to me and I know it is and I keep trying to focus inward and be myself more but I find it so hard.  That early programming is just so deep and so hard wired into me that my default is always to look in from outside myself through someone else's eyes and to try not to cause anyone any kind of problem.  Even going to pick up the fruit and veg today - the grocer had put out the wrong potatoes and I felt bad correcting him and asking for the right ones.  He doesn't care, it's a veg shop!  He's not fussed about which potatoes I buy.  But it's that inbuilt reaction to protect my mum, who's so fractured and deconstructed that she would take picking up the wrong potatoes as a massive slight and the incident would become one of her "you did that to me and I never recovered" stories.  I've got to keep trying at it, keep practising and just keep doing it until it isn't an effort any more.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on May 14, 2020, 02:05:18 PM
REEEEAAAALLLY timely, Tupp. 

I was talking to my T yesterday about noticing the default settings... which is huge and part of figuring them out.  You noticed a default setting around the wrong potatoes, managed to stay in observer mode get on with fixing it AND identifying why it's there.  WELL DONE, ((Tupp.))   

I've been having a cup of tea, instead of reaching for food in the evenings, to stop myself thinking.  There's stuff there that needs attention.  The tea is comforting and helps delve in and be with it.   

Identifying the younger parts of ourselves flailing...... is revelation.

I'm so glad you brought this up now: )

Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 15, 2020, 05:46:45 AM
REEEEAAAALLLY timely, Tupp. 

I was talking to my T yesterday about noticing the default settings... which is huge and part of figuring them out.  You noticed a default setting around the wrong potatoes, managed to stay in observer mode get on with fixing it AND identifying why it's there.  WELL DONE, ((Tupp.))   

I've been having a cup of tea, instead of reaching for food in the evenings, to stop myself thinking.  There's stuff there that needs attention.  The tea is comforting and helps delve in and be with it.   

Identifying the younger parts of ourselves flailing...... is revelation.

I'm so glad you brought this up now: )

Lighter

Thanks, Lighter.  I am noticing that the stress of the current situation is bringing old habits back for me.  Still not as bad as they used to be but I'm catching myself doing and thinking things that I really don't want to do.  I don't want to come out of this wrecked and with another three years worth of crap to work through, you know?  I keep thinking it's the difference between getting off the plane fresh and ready to go out and have fun and getting off exhausted, jet lagged and without your luggage.  I'm finding it hard to get the balance at the moment - trying not to think about things too much but needing to think some of the time, trying not to catastrophise but also needing to be realistic and put plans in place in case something unwanted happens, trying to focus on building up a bit of work from home but not putting myself under more pressure and making things worse, and so on.

I did get son to do a bit of kitchen work this morning and help put the washing out and so on.  I find it quite hard work; he moans and grumbles a lot about doing it and seems genuinely surprised when I tell him that I don't enjoy doing it ether, but it needs to be done.  But we got through it; I feel I can leave him be for an hour now, although I might pester him to contact his friends today as he's not been making much effort on that score.

And I had an idea!  My sitting room is very small, as you know.  I've got my big bookcase, filled with all the paperwork, on one wall, and then boxes of craft projects, photo albums, education stuff, sewing things etc all stashed in boxes behind the sofa, because there's nowhere else to put them.  So it's a faff to find anything because I have to pull the sofa out and then hunt through boxes.  Now why have I put the stuff I don't want on the bookshelf where it's easy to get to and the stuff I like and enjoy tucked out of sight and difficult to access?  Hmmm.  So I will be spending some time today getting all my projects out and organising them on the bookshelves so I can get to them easily and stacking all the horrible paperwork out of sight where I can work through it one box at a time and not have to look at it in between.  Seems so obvious now but for some reason that has eluded me for the last year and a half! xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: CB123 on May 15, 2020, 09:45:30 AM
Bravo, Tupp!
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on May 15, 2020, 12:57:22 PM
Quote
Now why have I put the stuff I don't want on the bookshelf where it's easy to get to and the stuff I like and enjoy tucked out of sight and difficult to access?

What CB said! Brilliant!

Along similar lines, though it'll be forever...occurred to me that I have an antique underutilzed glass-doored bookcase in my kitchen. What's in it is higgledy-piggledy stuff I use irregularly. Odd servingware I don't really need, piled cloth napkins. It's not organized and could be where I put those extra canned goods I got in for the quarantine, which are currently under my dining table in boxes I bang my feet on.

Thanks for the inspiration!

Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 15, 2020, 02:39:53 PM
Thanks, CB and Hops :)  And, Hopsie, yes, organise the bookcase and get the tins in there, it sounds like a really nice piece of furniture and the idea of it full of all your essentials makes me smile :)

Well I have had the nicest afternoon I have had in a very long time.  The horrible scabby paperwork is all stacked and boxed up in the space under the stairs, along with a few other bits and pieces we don't use very often.  The sofa is in front of it so it is invisible.  I've got these sheer curtains that have leaves painted on them - it's a bit difficult to explain what they look like but think of the kind of light curtains you put up just for privacy rather than to block out light and imagine these sort of vines twisting down them.  They look very pretty; anyway, they hang from the ceiling in front of the banister and I've put some of my son's drawings of his superhero creations behind them, so it looks like there are creatures wandering through a leafy forest and coming over the back of the sofa :)  Only essential paperwork is still out (bills, son's current assessments and so on) and that is in boxes on top of the big bookcase, not looking threatening and offset by the pair of bright blue boots I bought just before the lockdown and haven't had a chance to wear anywhere yet :)

And the rest of the book case is now our at home college and lockdown project area!  I sorted through everything and put it together in categories.  I love doing it!  Lol.  All my unfinished sewing projects are in a box with all my needles, threads, pins etc - everything in one place.  I've grouped together all the art and craft stuff, everything related to story writing is in one place, maths stuff (for son), science projects and equipment, unfinished recycling and upcycling projects - everything is unfinished!  I've got my card making and jewellery making stuff, board games and puzzles and all the photograph albums and scrap books that I want to sort out.  I'm hoping that now it's easy to access I'll do bits and pieces in the evening instead of not bothering because it's too much hassle to get it all out.

I've re-organised the upstairs cupboard so all the winter stuff is put away now and I've got a box of books and toys that we don't want anymore so I'm going to stick them out on the step and anyone who wants something from it can help themselves.  It feels so nice.  I'm very tired now but in a nice way.  We're just waiting for the shopping to be delivered and then we'll have a little walk before it gets dark.  It's been a really nice day :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: CB123 on May 15, 2020, 04:46:16 PM
Oh Tupp, I loved hearing about your day! Sure wish we could share photos!

CB
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on May 16, 2020, 09:37:34 AM
Tupp that sounds incredible.
I wish that part of you could be bottled, I'd order gallons!

KUDOS on making your world better for you, happier and calmer. Creative and calm.

Awesome. Flippin' awesome.

I'm noticing one thing that prevents me progressing more easily is decision phobia. I dither so much over ordering, say, one of those lightweight flexihoses you can attach to your sink faucet to uncoil outdoors for planters/patio. Absolutely stuck on which product/approach makes most sense. I wonder if that's ADD or OCD? Both?

Anyhow, delightful to read your account of your re-ordered space. Bravo!

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 16, 2020, 11:56:42 AM
Thanks, you two.  I was really pleased with myself yesterday - and now cross with myself because an old pattern cropped up and I didn't notice it so I got myself in a pickle.

Because I felt positive, energised, pleased that I'd done something for myself - I focused on helping other people.  I do this all the time, as soon as I get a bit of energy back I use it for others.  I just didn't realise I was doing it.  I spent the evening signing and sharing petitions, campaign information, filling in surveys, just lots of things like that because it's the only thing I feel I can do at the minute for those people who've been lost and ignored in this situation.  And of course, because I was doing that, I was also reading lots of grim horrible stuff, nasty comments, the NHS had released the death figures for people with learning disability and autism - 451 so far.  Which was fine last night because I was so pleased with the bookcase thing.  But it obviously settled in overnight because I have spent today with it all whirring around in my head and feeling depressed and alone.  And it's because I immediately used my little bit of energy to do for others - I should have spent some time on photo albums or doing a bit of sewing.  I am cross with myself for falling in to that old habit again - I should have saved my energy for myself.

Anyway - noted, noticed and hopefully avoided again next time.  The bookcase still looks nice :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on May 16, 2020, 01:43:21 PM
What an amazing day, Tupp.  I really do think of that work as creation of sacred space.  Putting the things we love and want to give our time to OUT FRONT, where we can see and reach it....  YES.

As for the paperwork..... I have to tell you I'm bugged to know it's IN your living space, just as I'm unhappy I have my own large stash in mine.  At some point, I'm.... confident we'll just let it all go. 

On reflection, I feel going through the boxes with a lIVE! DIE! posture.... boxes pulled next to bonfire... one box receiving documents I MUST have, all else going to the fire.... appeals to me right now. 

Documents that prove the PDs lied, cheated, stole and manufactured evidence are things the box would hold..... along with FINAL ORDERS. Just having it all in one place would be comforting.  Not having to worry about finding it again would be comforting. I think I could get rid of everything else, bc I don't intend to write a book.

What would you keep, Tupp? 

I'm so happy to read you have your space cleared up, Tupp.  Youngest dd and I just took down heavy drapes on front windows... the room so much larger... so sunny.  It's wonderful. 

Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on May 16, 2020, 01:51:40 PM
(((((((Tupp))))))))

On another thread I posted a quote from a psychiatrist about childhood abuse, to the effect that victims try to make amends for the perpetrators.

I think that almost in some cases can scale up to society-wide abuse or neglect.

I just want to say that given your situation, your deep and individual situation and how very difficult it's been on multiple levels...you might be a person who does NOT need to make amends for society's coldness or indifference to suffering.

You might be a person who has had enough, done enough, and cared enough.

I'm not suggesting you can never advocate or volunteer for change. Of course you can. But right NOW, in these circumstances NOW, maybe you need to trust that good people everywhere are happy to carry you in their hearts and on their shoulders. They're not dependent on you sounding the alarm, writing reams on social media, educating the unreachable, or teaching others what's wrong.

You have MANY silent friends you'll never know about. You are not alone in your moral outrage or pain or shock at the way cultures conduct themselves. You have SO much company, out here, out there, everywhere.

It's just OKAY, when you're okay with it, to step back, not take the bait, not get triggered into desperate attempts to be the little boy with his finger in the dike.

It's not down to you. Our survival or our improvement, as humanity. It's down to ALL of us, and that includes many long and fallow periods when different individuals in different unique circumstances step into the protest tide, and also must step out of it again, to tend their own mental or physical health.

And when you do feel it's time to step out of that tide? It's OKAY. It's natural and necessary and beautiful.

You don't need to make amends for society. You have already spoken and lived and struggled so much that a dozen privileged indifferent folks' efforts (including mine) wouldn't add up to a fraction of your effort.

Give yourself peace. Give yourself permission. Give yourself grace.

You don't have to monitor it, raise the alarm, or broadcast the answers. You are NOT ALONE, and other voices will rise and fill in that space. Not fast enough or well enough but that's how change goes.

Much admiration, and more care...take care of you, our friend, our companion in this precious space. Take care of you.

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 16, 2020, 04:13:48 PM
What an amazing day, Tupp.  I really do think of that work as creation of sacred space.  Putting the things we love and want to give our time to OUT FRONT, where we can see and reach it....  YES.

As for the paperwork..... I have to tell you I'm bugged to know it's IN your living space, just as I'm unhappy I have my own large stash in mine.  At some point, I'm.... confident we'll just let it all go. 

On reflection, I feel going through the boxes with a lIVE! DIE! posture.... boxes pulled next to bonfire... one box receiving documents I MUST have, all else going to the fire.... appeals to me right now. 

Documents that prove the PDs lied, cheated, stole and manufactured evidence are things the box would hold..... along with FINAL ORDERS. Just having it all in one place would be comforting.  Not having to worry about finding it again would be comforting. I think I could get rid of everything else, bc I don't intend to write a book.

What would you keep, Tupp? 

I'm so happy to read you have your space cleared up, Tupp.  Youngest dd and I just took down heavy drapes on front windows... the room so much larger... so sunny.  It's wonderful. 

Lighter

Thanks, LIghter, it sounds great that you took those drapes down.  It's amazing the difference something like that can make to a room.  You wouldn't think it a big shift, but it can really change the whole look and feel of a place.

Do you know, the funny thing with the paperwork is that, now it's out of sight, it just hasn't been on my mind.  Years ago, when it was all happening, we had a spare bedroom that I used as an office, and it was such a big help because I could contain it all in one area and just close the door on it when I needed to.  So having it all in plain sight for the last few years has bothered me more than I realised.

I think the ultimate plan would be to scan all of it and destroy all the hard copies.  I'm loathe to get rid of the whole lot simply because I would need to go to court to get any of it again - I no longer have any legal right to son's records because of his age now and he wouldn't usually be thought capable of giving his consent for me to act on his behalf so we'd have to go to court to get a judge to sign it off.  Which would be a pain.  And although the chances of me needing it would be miniscule, I feel like just having everything on a memory stick would make it easy to deal with, should it happen.  I've been feeling slightly uneasy as my mum has been making my sister's life a misery - the pressure of lockdown is getting to her - and there are child abuse adverts all over the telly at the moment.  He's a vulnerable adult now so there is the teeniest chance the mad bat would do something.  I'm not actively thinking or worrying about it, it just flashed through my mind when I saw one of the adverts and the paperwork is my armour because it's my proof she's done this a million times before and I've always proved she's lying.  But I can see a time at some point in the future when I can just work through a box at a time, scanning away and then having a nice bonfire in the evenings.  Would be a nice little winter warmer, perhaps?

Do you think your girls would want to read through it when they're older, Lighter?  I've wondered how much son would like to know.  At the moment he has no interest but I've found as I've got older that I'd love to know more about my family history.  So I wonder if he'd like to know more at some point.  Do your girls ever ask much about it all?

The bookcase does feel like a sacred space :)  I really like it.  Son has said he'll be telling his tutor when he phones next week that I've set up a college at home for him :)  I found his little baby wrist bands when I was going through boxes, you know the ones they put on when they're newborn, with just their name and hospital number?  That made me smile :) xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 16, 2020, 04:27:36 PM
(((((((Tupp))))))))

On another thread I posted a quote from a psychiatrist about childhood abuse, to the effect that victims try to make amends for the perpetrators.

I think that almost in some cases can scale up to society-wide abuse or neglect.

I just want to say that given your situation, your deep and individual situation and how very difficult it's been on multiple levels...you might be a person who does NOT need to make amends for society's coldness or indifference to suffering.

You might be a person who has had enough, done enough, and cared enough.

I'm not suggesting you can never advocate or volunteer for change. Of course you can. But right NOW, in these circumstances NOW, maybe you need to trust that good people everywhere are happy to carry you in their hearts and on their shoulders. They're not dependent on you sounding the alarm, writing reams on social media, educating the unreachable, or teaching others what's wrong.

You have MANY silent friends you'll never know about. You are not alone in your moral outrage or pain or shock at the way cultures conduct themselves. You have SO much company, out here, out there, everywhere.

It's just OKAY, when you're okay with it, to step back, not take the bait, not get triggered into desperate attempts to be the little boy with his finger in the dike.

It's not down to you. Our survival or our improvement, as humanity. It's down to ALL of us, and that includes many long and fallow periods when different individuals in different unique circumstances step into the protest tide, and also must step out of it again, to tend their own mental or physical health.

And when you do feel it's time to step out of that tide? It's OKAY. It's natural and necessary and beautiful.

You don't need to make amends for society. You have already spoken and lived and struggled so much that a dozen privileged indifferent folks' efforts (including mine) wouldn't add up to a fraction of your effort.

Give yourself peace. Give yourself permission. Give yourself grace.

You don't have to monitor it, raise the alarm, or broadcast the answers. You are NOT ALONE, and other voices will rise and fill in that space. Not fast enough or well enough but that's how change goes.

Much admiration, and more care...take care of you, our friend, our companion in this precious space. Take care of you.

hugs
Hops

Thanks, Hopsie.  You are right.  I do tell myself that I've got enough on my plate and I don't need to do x, y and z, and only this week I saw a post about not having to keep proving you're worthy and it rang a bell.  But I felt so much better than normal and I don't know, my head just went somewhere else.  And the funny thing was that it was when I was lecturing a friend this afternoon about her DOING TOO MUCH FOR OTHER PEOPLE AND SHE SHOULD FOCUS ON HERSELF BECAUSE SHE HAD MORE THAN ENOUGH TO DO RIGHT NOW that I realised I need to fix that into my own head.  So much easier to see other people's situations.  I have given myself a 'down tools' talking to .

PS  I reorganised my kitchen cupboards this afternoon and sent organisational vibes your way while I was doing it :) lol xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: sKePTiKal on May 17, 2020, 11:34:35 AM
Hops, I wondered about that comment where you originally made it. It didn't sit well with me at the time. But your explanation makes sense; now I can connect it to other things I know. It is a phase, perhaps, in the healing process. And I do know people who've gotten stuck there. Others are trying to balance that with taking care of themselves and relaxing with that.

In the process of "reclaiming" our power and freedom from the things that linger in the past... there comes a point where I think the lens from which some of us view the world and the people in it changes and we see differently. Or maybe I was just lucky. What I'm talking about are those "random acts of kindness" and gratitude for the little pleasant connections we make with people throughout our day. They build up a body of experiences that's like an antidote and vaccine to past trauma. (Sorry for the "we" - but I do mean people, generally speaking.)

It takes no effort at all for me to smile, be "real" with someone for a moment - make that human to human connection and maybe even crack wise in a funny way that alleviates a burden for the people I interact with or let them know I appreciate them. Often times, it's reciprocated and that's a very real way I feel connected to my community. Doesn't have to be any organized, grandiose sacrifice to make the world a better place on a daily basis for those around us. Those small gestures often contain a great deal of positive energy. And it doesn't cost us anything - in fact I think we gain from it too.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on May 17, 2020, 12:44:42 PM
I agree, Amber! For me, this IS community:
Quote
those "random acts of kindness" and gratitude for the little pleasant connections we make with people throughout our day. They build up a body of experiences that's like an antidote and vaccine to past trauma.

I wonder, Tupp, if access to that form of healing is less accessible to those who are somewhere on the spectrum? If a lot of those pleasant connections are based on subtle social cues, I could see how the internet world would be more comfortable.

I'm both. I love (or will again) the village square, and the little pleasant connections. But my other side (who knows which genes?) is real comfortable ratcheer, where I can take my time to compose a thought and go back and fiddle with it before I post. And often after. The village square doesn't always give me time to catch micro-expressions and micro-meanings (even the cumulative positive ones) and I wonder if sometimes that's also true for you.

We're all mutts, mentally. (Harrrumph. This is not the Royal We, of course. We use that whenever We wish to, because We can....) We're all mutts -- a very complex mix of brain rivulets and ruts and amazingness, and the same in our personalities.

We like us!

hugs
Hops

PS--from the Urban Dictionary:
Rat cheer
Definition: Right here. Properly pronounced 'ratcheer' or 'ratchere'. Common to the Southern United States. Has Absolutely Nothing to do with cheer, cheering, the skin color or social class of the speaker, or things 'right there'. See: Right cheer
"Ahma gonna sit rat cheer til foe the safnoon."
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 17, 2020, 03:27:35 PM
Hi Hops and Skep,

For me, I don't think it's so much those connections not being accessible, it's more there's a lack of opportunity to experience them simply by not often seeing or being around other people.  Even without the lockdown situation, our interactions are generally restricted to getting on and off the bus and going in and out of the library, cinema or a shop.  I probably don't physically see or speak to people more than two or three times a week and that will generally be a brief, pass the time of day conversation.  The only real chats I get are when we go for acupuncture or osteopathic treatments.  I don't feel part of a community and never really have, because community always seems to mean going out and joining in - son just can't most of the time and with no-one to stay at home with him I can't either.  I do notice and appreciate hugely when someone does something kind but it's just such a small drop in an ocean of aloneness, lack of practical support and blatant discrimination in some cases that it doesn't make a lasting difference.  Unfortunately our negative experiences with people, whether dealing with professionals or people in general, still massively outweigh the nice things people do.

But that brings me nicely on to my topic for the day!  I wanted to try very hard today to focus on being nice to myself and not getting bogged down in doing for other people.  I did still find myself online a few times - I think it's a compulsion that I didn't even realise as I didn't consciously think about doing it, I just found myself on there and took myself off again quickly.  But what I did do differently was just do my normal day to day stuff without giving myself a hard time about not doing enough, not doing it well enough, not being quick enough.  Took breaks when I needed/wanted to and just gave myself an easier time of it.  That's what I'm going to try to keep doing from now on.

I also started casting about a bit looking at possible places to investigate moving to once getting out and about again is safe.  I'm keeping an open mind and my options open and we don't have to rush - if it takes five years to go somewhere else it doesn't matter.  The idea of a communal home still appeals to me, but equally worries me in case the appeal of living with other people wears off very quickly and becomes too difficult to manage.  A decent enough range of activities and services for son would be good, as would some external support if possible.  Lower cost that where we are now but more space would be preferable.  For convenience sake town is easier but I really prefer the peace and quiet of the countryside and value that so that's something else to think about.  I feel more positive about having that time and space to think and plan now, whilst getting all these unfinished jobs out of the way.  I've got a picture in my head of us packing less into the van when we leave than we brought down here with us because all of the paperwork will be gone :)  That feels like a nice place to be heading right now.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on May 17, 2020, 03:50:21 PM
Quote
an ocean of aloneness

I heard this. All the way to the bottom of my heart.

Pisses me off. And I believe it. I know it's real.

I'm so glad you are here, (((((((Tupp)))))).

I do believe all things change and pass, etc. -- but what you've endured humbles me.

Hugs
Hops

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on May 18, 2020, 06:46:51 PM
Tupp:
I'm glad you're enjoying your bookshelves and we're enjoying our sunny living room. 

Right now I'm on the edge of being sick to death of being sick to death of thinking about those files. 

I accept there's never going to be a perfect action.

If I could scan them, in some orderly fashion, I would have already done it.   I can't.   I think scanning them would be a good option for you.  I don't want you to ever ever ever have to find and organize those documents again.  You should never have to, and it's necessary to have them, just in case, IME. 

I'll have to make peace with imperfect choices around this.  Maybe somethng unexpected will pop up if I stop thinking about it.

Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 19, 2020, 01:53:17 AM
Tupp:
I'm glad you're enjoying your bookshelves and we're enjoying our sunny living room. 

Right now I'm on the edge of being sick to death of being sick to death of thinking about those files. 

I accept there's never going to be a perfect action.

If I could scan them, in some orderly fashion, I would have already done it.   I can't.   I think scanning them would be a good option for you.  I don't want you to ever ever ever have to find and organize those documents again.  You should never have to, and it's necessary to have them, just in case, IME. 

I'll have to make peace with imperfect choices around this.  Maybe something unexpected will pop up if I stop thinking about it.

Lighter

Lighter, could you just rent a little storage unit indefinitely and bung yours in there?  I'm assuming things there are almost the same as here and I know here you can rent crates in storage units when you have relatively small items you want to store.  Just wondered if it might get them out of your house without you having to 'do' anything with them other than load them into the truck.  I do wonder about the power of paper.  We've fought such battles but it's all been through words and paperwork.  It's very passive but very stressful?  I find that a weird combination.  I wonder if it had just been like olden times and it had come down to a duel or fistfight would it have been easier?  One deciding physical altercation and then that's it.  Would that have done less damage?

I was talking to a friend last night about how destabilising it is when you're family don't just not support you, but actively go out of their way to harm you and create discord in your life (he has a similarly messed up family to so many others!).  I do find the thing that's harder for me than all the terrible professionals we encountered over the years is knowing my mum was the root of that tree.  I guess it's similar for you as it's other family members.  It's the lack of genuine concern over the children that really baffles me as well.  Urgh.  But anyway.  I hope there is something you can do to put those files somewhere where they don't need any thinking or not thinking about any more xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 19, 2020, 10:18:00 AM
Quote
an ocean of aloneness

I heard this. All the way to the bottom of my heart.

Pisses me off. And I believe it. I know it's real.

I'm so glad you are here, (((((((Tupp)))))).

I do believe all things change and pass, etc. -- but what you've endured humbles me.

Hugs
Hops

It pisses me off too, Hopsie, some days more than others!  Lol, and I'm beyond glad that you are all here and that Dr G keeps this whole thing running, I can't tell you.  I hope things change and pass.  I'm trying to look forward, focus on what's good.  It's not always easy to keep the ship steady. 

We tried a longer walk yesterday, into town, so that son could look at all the places he's missing.  It was nice to be out in the sunshine and to stretch our legs a bit.  The town itself is fairly flat and although it's a small town the streets and pavements are fairly wide and the town centre is mostly pedestrianised so it's easy enough to keep away from people.  We walked along the main road into town and then cut down by the edge of the park and across the river.  It was pretty and it felt reassuring to know that it's just still there.  We visited the library and peered through the windows, looked through the windows of his favourite computer and book shops and then went and looked at the empty cinema.  That felt a bit sad, it's a small independent cinema and we both love it in there, the staff are so lovely, always chat to my son and they know when things are coming up that he'll like so they give him a heads up.  They've even been kind enough sometimes to bring our hot drinks to our seats with us when I've gone in there carrying half a dozen bags and everything's a bit much to juggle.  They had a sign in the window saying that all their staff had been put on leave on full pay and that really cheered me up, so many people have just been chucked out of work and told to claim benefits or get another job.  So it was nice to see they're looking after their staff.

I think it cheered him up a bit just to know everything's there and to be out for a bit.  We went out for another long walk this morning, different route this time along the cycle paths and pedestrian routes but you end up back at the park again.  Saw two very friendly cats and three ducks having a snooze on someone's driveway opposite the river.  It was a nice walk so I think we'll try to do that every day now.

Have had a nap.  Just trying to carry on being nice to ourselves now and keeping health and energy levels up xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on May 19, 2020, 01:03:18 PM
Those walks are beautiful, beautiful, beautiful events, Tupp.

Thanks for sharing them.

Cats and ducks hanging out together. Off I go to YouTube for more inter-species friendship videos!

You and your son are glowing dots in the human sea. Wonderful people.

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on May 20, 2020, 08:39:11 AM
Tupp:

You're such a great mother.  I felt like I was walking next to you!

Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 21, 2020, 09:40:52 AM
Tupp:

You're such a great mother.  I felt like I was walking next to you!

Lighter

That is very nice of you to say, Lighter, it takes one to know one ;)  Lol xx

I've just had one of those "thank goodness I didn't do that" moments.  A few years ago now a male friend of mine was between homes so was staying odd nights at mine, on the sofa.  There was some history from many years earlier (at least twenty or so) so it was a platonic thing, although I still held a bit of a candle for him.  One evening he made a move, which I rejected.  He seemed hurt and I did wonder if I'd done the right thing, but I had that feeling at the time he was only making the move because I was there, not because he particularly wanted me.  I have felt in the past that I've been the sort of 'she'll do until I meet someone else' person; several boyfriends have dropped me in a heartbeat when they've met someone else, who they've then gone on to marry/move in with etc.

Anyway - the friend and I are still in touch and we've just spoken; he told me that he's got back together with an ex girlfriend who he's carried a torch for since they split up many years ago and as we've chatted about the situation (which is a nice one; she's lovely and I'm genuinely pleased for him) it became apparent that the night he stayed at mine and made that move had come just after he'd bumped into her in the street and met her with her new chap.  My instincts had been right and I felt a huge sense of relief when I put the phone down that I'd kept my boundary and not allowed myself to get swept along with the moment.  I don't think it would have been a good idea.

Anyway - I just thought I'd share.  It's just funny how sometimes years later you realise you did make the right choice.  I am very pleased for them, they do go well together and I often wondered why they broke up.

In other news, I am finding the quiet days going by quickly but time overall is moving slowly.  I'm wondering whether to tell son he definitely won't be going back to college.  He's waiting to hear when they'll re-open again.  There hasn't been a formal decision yet but there's only five weeks left till the end of the year so the chances are very slim and even if they did, he's not going in as it's not safe enough.  So I'm wondering whether I should just tell him sooner rather than later.  We'd be able to organise a get together once everyone can mingle again; not knowing when that might be is difficult.  I've been pottering about in the house and garden, went out earlier to collect the veg, feel like a nap but I'm going to push past as I'm not sleeping too well at night at the moment and I don't want to make that worse.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 21, 2020, 11:06:50 AM
And we just had another little bit of good news - the council have moved us up the housing list a bit.  I'd told them that the noise and lack of space were having a negative effect on myself and son so they've shifted us forward a bit, which means we might be able to get a place a bit quicker now.  Nothing definite but it's a step in the right direction.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on May 21, 2020, 11:58:29 PM
Oh it would be so GREAT for you to be in a place that has a bit more room and a LOT less damp! Hopefully a better yard, no matter the size, too. Fingers crossed the list moves along. I'm so happy to hear this, Tupp.

As to telling your son about college...do you think it'd help to tell him, well two things could happen -- it might open or after they figure out how the virus is going, they might need to keep it closed for a while? And that way, transfer the "bad news bears" to the system rather than you having to be the messenger entirely?

I hope he won't be too disappointed. I fail to understand the panic over here about kids possibly missing a year or semester of school. I actually think (for fortunate children with safe homes and kindly smart parents) that many kids would benefit from a year off the treadmill. But whaddo I know. (I started school too young and was an absolute mess, including failing a grade from despair, until late high school. Lots of trauma....)

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 22, 2020, 05:06:47 AM
Oh it would be so GREAT for you to be in a place that has a bit more room and a LOT less damp! Hopefully a better yard, no matter the size, too. Fingers crossed the list moves along. I'm so happy to hear this, Tupp.

As to telling your son about college...do you think it'd help to tell him, well two things could happen -- it might open or after they figure out how the virus is going, they might need to keep it closed for a while? And that way, transfer the "bad news bears" to the system rather than you having to be the messenger entirely?

I hope he won't be too disappointed. I fail to understand the panic over here about kids possibly missing a year or semester of school. I actually think (for fortunate children with safe homes and kindly smart parents) that many kids would benefit from a year off the treadmill. But whaddo I know. (I started school too young and was an absolute mess, including failing a grade from despair, until late high school. Lots of trauma....)

hugs
Hops

I agree with you completely about the education system, Hops, and there have apparently been a lot of parents enquiring about home education - it seems many have seen a positive change from having their kids at home and may stick with it now.

The not knowing either way is the bit that son's struggling with.  I asked him if he'd be upset if it doesn't re-open before the summer and he said no.  So I don't know, I think it might be better if I make the declaration and take away the uncertainty.  I'll think about it some more.

And yes, a bigger place would be so nice.  We're still way down the list - but it's a step in the right direction.  All good.  Encouraging that they accepted the healthcare situation as well; I've spent so many years having to fight to get anyone to acknowledge our healthcare problems that it's unusual for me to have something happen so easily.  So that was good as well.

Anyway - for some reason yesterday was enormously cathartic for me.  Not really sure why as I just spent the day pottering about doing housework but I woke up this morning with a much clearer head and feeling like I know where I'm heading better now.  So .......

I spend very little time in the present moment.  I don't mean in a mindfulness way so much, just in the sense I don't want to be present.  I'm assuming it's to do with being abused and it just not being safe to be there.  But I spend much of my mental time and energy yearning for times in the past that were better, analysing and working through times in the past that were bad and re-thinking things I wish I'd done or not done.  I spend an equal amount  of time yearning for a very different and much better future, and then feeling endlessly disappointed that I don't have it or I'm so far away from it.  I've done it all my life and I've always known I've done it, I just didn't ever feel like I could really stop doing it.  But - I kind of woke up this morning feeling that I can.  I've no idea why.  Maybe just the downtime we've had recently and not having to run just to stand still all the time.  But I feel I want to try really hard to focus on what is good about living here - not in a Pollyanna, pretend it's all perfect way, but just to try to lift my head out of the rut a bit and make the best of the time we do have here (as it's likely to be a good while yet).

Which kind of brings me to the other thing.  I've done a little bit of research and it seems the best way forward for us is for me to go to court to get a judge to agree that I am competent to make decisions on my son's behalf, and also to allocate someone else to do that if I am indisposed for any reason (or dead!).  They can give you life long responsibility in some cases so I want to look into that a bit more as I think it will make things easier for us, instead of us having to go through the process every time a decision needs to be made.

In order to do that I'd need to show my own competence - I'm confident I can do that - but also why I don't feel comfortable with public sector workers being involved.  That is where the paperwork will come in.  I think I will need to go through it and document the 39 occasions we've experienced in the last 15 years (that works out one every four and a half months - no wonder I'm exhausted) to show that we cannot rely on public sector staff to follow procedure and ensure son's needs are met.  Which will mean going through the paperwork to get a synopsis together for the court.  But - I feel fine about and I won't start setting the legal stuff up until the document is ready (plus I still need to find out more and make sure I don't miss anything else I need to do).  But it feels okay.  I think realistically we'll be here for another couple of years.  I think we'll be shielding for a year, maybe longer, and then I want all of that signed and sealed before we go anywhere else.  On top of that I'm going to research very carefully our next step - much better than I did coming here.  I'll be asking for copies of activity plans, qualifications, funding criteria and so on - I'm not going to find myself in the same situation as I did here where I assumed everyone would be doing what was needed and then slowly realised it wasn't as it appeared.

So I kind of feel clear headed and calm, which is unusual for me.  Like some sort of spell was broken or something.  Anyway - we'll see how the day goes from here!  xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on May 22, 2020, 07:56:55 AM
Wow. It sounds as though you've re-entered your own life, and that rather than from despair or panic, you're approaching the next phase as your own calm and capable advocate. Bravo, Tupp. Sorry there's paperwork involved, but if you can digest those 39 incidents as much as possible, the bureaucrats may respond more easily. This time, perhaps you won't need quite as much volume to explain your request. I really like the idea of you having permanent guardianship.

How amazing that the health needs status of your son has finally been solidified. I don't understand exactly what that means but I can tell it's an improvement. With that and the shift up the housing list, I'm thinking: the possibility of good things happening.

I know what you mean about endlessly recycling and picking through the past. A word that popped up for me is rumination. When I learned what a powerful association it has with depression, I got better at recognizing what was keeping me out of the present moment as well. Not perfectly, but when I start down a sad spiral about the past I often find myself literally shaking my head in a kind of "throw it off" motion. It actually works! I shake it off to bring myself back into the present.

Just yesterday I staggered back into the present as my own kind friend. Made a huge difference --I got things DONE!--and I'm going to try to continue that today.

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on May 22, 2020, 12:31:33 PM
Hear! Hear!  That's an amazing breakthrough, Tupp.

You've learned so many tough lessons over the years.  This gave you anxiety and robbed you of living in the moment, but it also bestowed wisdom to Amazon Tupp. 

I really do believe this is a turning point for you and ds.  90% research and 10% action is a good rule to follow, IME.  Sorting the legals will bring tremendous relief, IMO.  Sorting a larger living space seems on track and what a go you'll make of it after everything you've learned and managed.

Hops:

It really does make a difference to BE our own friend, doesn't it?  Seeing yourself, as M sees you, and counting on yourself, your humor, companionship, as a resource feels like revelation?

Now, if we could just remain in that wonderful headspace, especially when things go wonky. That would be amazing.

Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 23, 2020, 06:37:40 AM
Thank you both.  Yes, nodding all the way through.  I think just having this time at home - challenging in some ways - but it is allowing me to kind of hear myself more, instead of just having to prep and plan constantly for the next thing and endlessly spinning plates just to try and keep everything moving.  I feel like I can notice more and take time out to deal with what I'm noticing, instead of having to shelve it until 'later' when I've done whatever else it is I need to do.

Hops, rumination is a good word and yes, I'm really noticing my reactions to small events today.  An email this morning - local authority want a survey filling in about son's needs during lockdown (this is the same local authority who have refused to meet his needs for the last two years).  Immediate surge of anger but then I was able to notice how the pattern went and take it apart as it happened - it's not often I can do that.

So - immediate anger, followed by an immediate 'practise' conversation in my head (outloud sometimes, as well) to defend my decision not to fill the survey in.  Thoughts that flow through very quickly - you all get paid to do a job you don't do properly, then you expect me to fill in a survey on my time, unpaid.  The questions are pointless; you haven't done your job so college for him has been nothing more than a drain on both of us.  No point being concerned now, the truth is lockdown is preferable to your provision, what does that tell you about the quality of what you do?

They flash through in less than a second, very fast and jumbled.  And then it all starts to tumble - I had to give up my job, I have to live in this crap house, my mum's done everything she can to destroy us, I wish we didn't live here, my friends abandoned me - again, all very fast, it's like a faucet being opened.

And then even though I stop myself, my brain goes back to that every few seconds, like it's on a bit of elastic.  And of course what that's then doing is stopping me from concentrating on what I wanted to do, which was send a couple of emails I needed to catch up on.

It's fine now, I stopped it fast (your thing about shaking your head does work, Hopsie).  It was just interesting to actually kind of see it happening and notice it.  Hopefully the more I notice as time goes on, the less it will happen.  The frustration there is genuine - I'm expected to give up my time endlessly to do things for other people in these situations.  They need information for their charts and reports and they can't get it unless I give it to them.  I won't give it to them, because they haven't upheld their end of the bargain and followed the legislation so I see no reason to do anything for them.  They're already aware of that, because I've told them often enough, but they ignore that (voiceless) and keep sending the request in).  But - I want my reaction to be delete and move on to next item.  That is a good thing to aim for.  I will keep practising.

Hops, I'm glad you got things done by being your own friend :)  That is good to hear.

Lighter, thank you, I think it's a turning point as well.  I was talking to a friend yesterday about checking out new places and how much I've learnt about how not to do it by moving here.  I'll be asking a lot more questions about other places to see whether they really will suit son, as well as checking practicalities like bus routes, nearby places to park, how easy is it to get to the supermarket in between going from a to b to c - you, know, those things that can make a big difference to your day.  I'm not going to do my 'we'll be fine, I'll cope' thing anymore, because I don't want to cope.  I want to feel alive and happy and look forward to what we're doing each day instead of dragging myself through it.  I want a spacious home in a nice area, decent size garden, good range of facilities for son, some kind of support, even if it's just a sitting service every now and again so that I can go out without him.  Decent transport links, relatively low crime rate.  All of those things are important to me and I'm not willing to skimp on stuff like that any more.  So yes, 90% research, maybe even 95%!  Which I enjoy doing, I do like finding stuff out.  And then some little trips to possible areas, several times, to check details and keep checking them until everything lines up and we can go - minus the paperwork and with all the legal stuff sorted out.  What a nice day that will be :)  I will be keeping you all posted, obviously :)  Thank you so much for always being here xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on May 23, 2020, 07:18:58 AM
Tupp:

I know you did research before this move....on college, shops, proximity to the ocean, the place.  I know you had lots of balls in the air.  I KNOW you needed to put distance between you and the PDs, handle the van, the overnight, the MOVE itself.

You did your very best and you did the research you could do at that distance.  You were amazing.

Sure, you learned things on the way.  You've determined priorities and preferences and minimum standards for things you've never had to deal with before. 

What you didn't do is fail yourself or your son.

You, alone, made preparations and were proactive as you could be, where you could be.

Will you be more proactive this move?  Yup. You're wiser, more experienced and ds has matured.... you've had breathing space and opportunity to focus on things you can and can't abide.  You've learned how to make space... even if it's just seconds.... to select a response, and hold reactivity in check.

THIS IS AMAZING!  This is growth towards a richer, happier life.  DS benefits from it. 

You'll do what you've always done, this move, Tupp.

You'll just be very much more Tupp when you do it.   

I'm honoring the journeys you've already made.  Honoring the efforts you put in.  The care you took. The things you've packed and loaded and carried and unpacked... all while caring for your ds. I remember, and it wasn't easy for you.  You've done amazing things!  Please don't discount that.

You did the very best you could with the causes and conditions you were dealing with.

Just bc you can do better, bc you know better and have breathing room and experience with things you didn't before..... Lord, Tupp.  You're a giant, and I won't ever forget that.  I hope you don't either. 

Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on May 23, 2020, 09:20:11 AM
My favorite part of your post:

Quote
I'm not going to do my 'we'll be fine, I'll cope' thing anymore, because I don't want to cope.  I want to feel alive and happy and look forward....

If I understand it right, you are on a general sort of district-wide priority list, which doesn't define the specific town or area, is that it? And you get to choose the specific town or area you wish to move to, and then your position on the general list likewise determines your positioning on a local list for your target town?

Loved reading your list of requirements for your lives in a new place. I also have such massive confidence that your research will be rational and comprehensive and prepare you really well for decision making.

Bravo, Tupp. Hero, role model and more.

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 24, 2020, 07:32:08 AM
Thank you both very much, I'm going to reply properly a bit later as I have a jumble in my head at the moment that I want to get down in the hope that you can unjumble it a bit for me.

I've had another very strong reaction this morning to a conspiracy theory/anti vax/keep the disabled indoors post on another forum I use and I'm trying to figure out why it makes me react so strongly.  I'm feeling that there are narcissistic/gaslighting type tones to it but it's not really clear in my mind and that's why I thought you might see it a bit more clearly.

The post was on another forum I use; I am trying very hard to avoid anything I might find triggering at the moment.  This other forum is quite a small one, relatively small number of users, I've used it for quite a few years so 'know' most people on there (in the online sense of knowing).  Conversations are generally quite respectful and polite and occasional squirmishes are usually sorted out quickly so it's a nice place to be (much like here :) ).

They've set up three threads for Covid related stuff - one for fact based information (science and medical fact, not video on Youtube fact), a second for discussions (so's not to clog up the fact based stuff with chit chat) and a third specifically for conspiracy theory discussion (which most on there don't subscribe to but a couple do and the chats have been polite for the most part).  I've found that very helpful because I just want the fact based stuff and it's nice not to have to wade through other things to get to it.

A member who doesn't post very often has popped up and been warmly welcomed by everyone and then proceeded to have a big conspiracy theory based rant with an attached YouTube video in which we're all slagged off for being sheep, too lazy to do research, can't be bothered to protest, giving away our rights and various other things, all on the fact based thread (if it had gone in the conspiracy theory thread I wouldn't have seen it because I don't read it).

I have responded to it and asked that admin move it to the conspiracy thread which I'm sure they'll do as soon as someone sees it.  But within an hour I had intense pain down my left hand side again and felt numb and tired.  It can't be related to the actual content because I just think it's such a load of rubbish I don't even bother with it which is what got me wondering if other things are setting me off.  So what I wondered about is this:

I notice that there is a lack of respect for boundaries with these sorts of things - people jumping in on other threads and/or topics/conversations to push their own point of view across.  Much like butting in to a conversation or ignoring what the other person says to just keep repeating your own thing.

I notice that alongside the butting in there is usually an accompanying comment that denigrates anyone who isn't on board with whatever it is that's being said - they haven't bothered to do research, they're too lazy to do what's best for their kids, they're stupid, illiterate, sheep, sleep walking to disaster and so on (this happens a lot on the internet, I think, with all sorts of topics).  There seems to me to be an air of superiority - like they've discovered some sort of elixir that everyone else is too dumb to pick up on.

There also seems to be a lot of talk about 'freedom of speech' without an acceptance that people have a right not to have to read or listen to stuff that doesn't interest them, along with a lack of awareness of how this kind of thing affects other people - those who keep reading about how expendable they are, people like me who are having to cut away more and more internet interaction at a time when we're not interacting anywhere else and I also feel for people with young children or who have just been diagnosed with a condition that they don't yet fully understand, as I know how easy it can be to feel overwhelmed at not knowing who to believe (I remember the Andrew Wakefield/vaccine causes autism thing broke just as my son was due his MMR and I was so worried about what to do.  And then felt guilty for years because I gave him the jab and then he was diagnosed with autism - I thought it was my fault because of the vaccine).

I don't know if that makes any sense because it still feels very jumbled in my mind but it strikes me that there's a lack of respect for boundaries, little thought for the way some folk might be negatively affected by reading some of this stuff (lack of care for others comes across strongly to me; the posts often feel quite rigid - agree with us or be doomed forever kind of stuff) and derogatory comments about intelligence, personal qualities or so on, before anyone else has even commented - it feels quite manipulative?  If you're not in our camp then you're a moron/bad parent/lazy and so on?  It feels very much like the way my mother behaves :)  And I'm wondering if that's why I react so strongly to it (and for the record, I have read quite a bit about the conspiracy side of stuff, I don't have any faith in most governments and I think there probably is a lot of stuff going on that the general public don't know about in detail but I still feel I've read more fact based stuff that disproves a lot of the conspiracy theory stuff, or at least puts it into context, than I have to support it).  So I don't feel it's because the content upsets me, I feel it's more the way it's being done that rings alarm bells?

Does any of that make sense or have I gone off on a complete tangent all of my own doing?  Lol xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on May 24, 2020, 08:08:51 AM
Tupp:

It's upsetting to have others COME at us..... especially when they're living in their limbic system, activated, emotional, fearful, angry and telling everyone what they MUST do and feel. 

Everyone wants to come to their own conclusions.  Everyone wants to be communicated with in a respectful manner.   

I would be shocked if you didn't have a negative reaction to behavior like this, particularly bc it's similar to how your mother behaves.  IME the people repeating what they've heard from charismatic talking heads speak this way.  They don't have facts and studies.   They lead with this Lord of the Flies bullying behavior.... and I have the same reactivity around it as you do, but with political discussions. 

I hope you can breathe your way through it.   Maybe you'll discover things beneath the pain that help make sense of it. 

Lighter

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 24, 2020, 08:51:34 AM
My favorite part of your post:

Quote
I'm not going to do my 'we'll be fine, I'll cope' thing anymore, because I don't want to cope.  I want to feel alive and happy and look forward....

If I understand it right, you are on a general sort of district-wide priority list, which doesn't define the specific town or area, is that it? And you get to choose the specific town or area you wish to move to, and then your position on the general list likewise determines your positioning on a local list for your target town?

Loved reading your list of requirements for your lives in a new place. I also have such massive confidence that your research will be rational and comprehensive and prepare you really well for decision making.

Bravo, Tupp. Hero, role model and more.

hugs
Hops

Almost that with the local authority housing, Hopsie.  They do it on a points system and the person with the most points is highest up the list, so they look at things like current accommodation, health problems, income level, connections to the local area and so on - the more serious your situation the greater the number of points.  You can generally only bid for a property that you have a local connection to, so it will either be that you live there, work there or have close family there (and then you still need to be at the top of the list to be considered for it).  So if we did get a place, the way it would work is that we'd get somewhere local to where we are now, but once you've been in it a year you can swop your home for someone else's anywhere else in the country (if both local authorities agree, which they generally do unless you have rent areas or a record for anti social behaviour).  We are more likely to have to stick to private renting as the lists are so long and we're not in desperate need so I'm not pinning my hopes on getting a local authority place, but it's a bit like the lottery - if you don't buy a ticket, you definitely won't win, you know?

I might need to come back to your massive confidence in me when I wobble, Hopsie, lol, I'm sure there will be plenty of times when it all feels like a bit much :) lol xxx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 24, 2020, 08:58:40 AM
Tupp:

I know you did research before this move....on college, shops, proximity to the ocean, the place.  I know you had lots of balls in the air.  I KNOW you needed to put distance between you and the PDs, handle the van, the overnight, the MOVE itself.

You did your very best and you did the research you could do at that distance.  You were amazing.

Sure, you learned things on the way.  You've determined priorities and preferences and minimum standards for things you've never had to deal with before. 

What you didn't do is fail yourself or your son.

You, alone, made preparations and were proactive as you could be, where you could be.

Will you be more proactive this move?  Yup. You're wiser, more experienced and ds has matured.... you've had breathing space and opportunity to focus on things you can and can't abide.  You've learned how to make space... even if it's just seconds.... to select a response, and hold reactivity in check.

THIS IS AMAZING!  This is growth towards a richer, happier life.  DS benefits from it. 

You'll do what you've always done, this move, Tupp.

You'll just be very much more Tupp when you do it.   

I'm honoring the journeys you've already made.  Honoring the efforts you put in.  The care you took. The things you've packed and loaded and carried and unpacked... all while caring for your ds. I remember, and it wasn't easy for you.  You've done amazing things!  Please don't discount that.

You did the very best you could with the causes and conditions you were dealing with.

Just bc you can do better, bc you know better and have breathing room and experience with things you didn't before..... Lord, Tupp.  You're a giant, and I won't ever forget that.  I hope you don't either. 

Lighter

Thank you, Lighter  ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Lighter)))))))))))))))))))

I think we all need to remind ourselves of what we have done, even if it wasn't perfect.  I think we all forget to do that.

Yep, plenty of research last time, I know that this time I need to be more specific, more assertive in my questions and not put my "it'll be fine, I'll cope" hat on.  I'm going to spend some time thinking long and hard about what I truly do want for myself.  I do value people and experiences over material possessions but the lack of space here, poor layout and not terribly nice immediate area have really had an effect on both of us, so I need to have a good think about size of property (probably to the point of working out the minimum amount of floor space we need and then measuring up wherever we go - it's funny how big rooms look when they're empty!).  And also keep a more open mind about how it will go - we'll try it and see what happens.  I thought moving here was going to be the answer to everything and I've found the disappointment of it not being like that very hard to cope with.  A more balance perspective this time, I think.  And yep, son can be more involved this time - he's had more experience of doing his own thing now so he'll be in a better place to engage with things and voice his opinion and that will be a help.  And I won't be telling anyone we've moved next time so the mad bat will definitely not find us this time :)  Lol xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: CB123 on May 24, 2020, 11:16:11 AM
Tupp,
I have always used facebook, in spite of its negatives, because since I have moved to the big city 6 years ago, I havent had much social life in the external world. I also use it as a kind of directory of different kinds of art, music and places so I probably dont use it in the usual way. It also gives me a window into other people's lives and I am so grateful for it. I know people all over the world on account of it, can you imagine?

But it is DEFINITELY a pain in the ass sometimes. I have literally left plant groups because they were fighting over the name of a plant! 

Too much time on my hands, I've made a point during this time of looking up old friends on fb to see what they are doing, and many many of them are subscribers to the conspiracy theories you describe. It is grief producing, especially when you couple that with the venom that often goes with it. Makes me want to cocoon, which is I guess what I am doing!

Internet still forces me to set boundaries. Not letting it in. Not letting it be personal. Not engaging with it, as much as possible. Closing the door on it frequently. You did exactly the right thing letting the moderator know what was going on--he/she is obviously sensitive to that, thus the different groups. Melt downs happen. I actually am less comfortable in groups where the moderator gets all wound up too. Just take down the post and keep moving.

Plus a constant reminder of this truth: that these people are not my friends. They don't really know me or my circumstances--and fb is so interested based, they don't really need to, nor do I want them to. And I don't know them either. There are people on groups that I am in, that I would not care for at all in real life. Not a single bit. But everyone pretties themselves up enough to participate in the plant/music/art discussion. Occasionally someone flames out. That's about them, not me. I think those of us who have been deeply formed by our relationships with narcissists have a hard time with that kind of boundary setting. I know I do.

Sometimes it feels like being assaulted by the words and I force myself to remember how very frightened people really are. People who are drowning grasp at anything to save themselves, even the rescuer--sometimes pulling them down with them. It's a struggle to make myself stay in the truth that these posters are ranting into the wind, not at me. It feels personal. But it couldnt be further from it. The ranters have to make people like us as paper cut-outs to believe the way they do. If it was ever truly personal, they would be forced to look closely at what they are doing. They make individuals as symbols, impersonal and distant, in order to make sense of what they are going through.

And I have to make myself see them as something more than a symbol as well (also very hard to do--my resistance tells me how easy it is to fall into). My personal choice is to be willing to live at poverty level and to be somewhat isolated in order to keep myself well, and my kids well. I dont know how I would feel if I had children that I believed were being harmed by their inability to go to school or to camp. I think often of the people that used to work for me in the restaurants. They are hurting financially right now--many of them have no income and plenty of time to listen to this stuff and let it ruminate around in them.

Many of the entrepreneurs I've known were very accustomed to working long hours no matter what else is going on--no matter how sick they are, for example. Most of them are a tough bunch of cowboys and they got where they did by ignoring personal risk and discomfort--so they are not sympathetic to those of us "hiding" in our houses!  A hair stylist in our country worked for 8 DAYS with covid, not telling anyone, and exposed over 90 people. I used to send home sick waitresses, but I was an anomaly in that business. If you eat in a restaurant, you can count on the fact that someone who has handled your food is not feeling well and your health depends on how carefully they followed sanitary practices on a busy night.

All that's to say, I think that most people create a story to allow them to make sense of what is happening to them, and many times they need a whole cast of characters, including villains and expendable crew men. Even if what they create is horrific, there's something calming about thinking you KNOW what is going on when in fact you dont. I feel as though I force myself not to go there and it is very very uncomfortable to try never to let myself light on a story that makes me a victim. It feels like a daily exercise.

You got this Tupp! You are so self aware and on top of it. You aren't responsible for either the crackpots around you, nor the feelings that they produce. I love to hear your stories of your days and the steadiness of them lately. I can often just picture what it looks like as you let yourself relax out of the run, run, run of the last year and let your days flow naturally. I absolutely love what is happening with your son. From my vantage point, it looks like he is blossoming in ways that he wouldnt have with your past schedule. How much of life to we spend trying to fit into the world and its values? And, it turns out, he is completely occupied during this time when he can focus on what matters to him.

CB

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on May 24, 2020, 01:31:00 PM
Tupp, loneliness is driving so many people onto forums and FB and rabbit holes online. I understand why. I'm vigorously protective of myself online (this is my only forum but what a trusted one) and I am positive I'd be poisoned by a lot that goes on elsewhere. The only places I participate are Comments sections (under a handle) in the Washington Post and NYTimes, though I read a lot of other media too. Even my "safe spaces" get invaded at times.

I think the intruder in the fact section is a form of TROLL. Some people thrive on bullying and insulting and destabilizing others, and unfortunately the internet is not a classroom where a decent teacher might intervene. There is no serious intervention on the internet, it's like the Wild West. An exciting and interesting and powerful place, but it also has its psychological risks--especially for the lonely. A place like this, which leads with empathy, is extraordinary and rare, ime. One filter for me for any forum would be limited membership and active moderation I trust.

I can't quibble with anyone who's isolated being involved in any way, but I do see it's quicksand in some areas. Expecting empathy or consistency there seems to be Error #1. Any place online can be "emotionally hacked" by someone lacking in conscience or self-regulation.

If you add up incels, the right wing, and cable propaganda channels, to name just a few...the online universe is a risky place. Some folks can thrive there because they are just emotionally unhooked from whatever any stranger will say or do there, however toxic. Other folks need to be wearing their invisible helmets and heart shields. I'm one of those too.

I will be so glad when you can go forth to dance church again, and re-experience what gentle, friendly and unaggressive humans are like in 3-D, and how many are still around you.

Hope you can filter yourself somehow, or set a timer, or remind yourself every time you log on to take EVERYTHING through a filter. Not a filter of paranoia, but a filter of self-love and protection. Being your own Inner Friend, who knows you intimately and loves you and cares about you enough to help redirect you when convincing others to think logically or be compassionate to each other seems impossible.

I think on the internet, it is mostly impossible. When kindness does happen in places and for periods of time, it's just GRACE rising, I believe. Not the rules. Not enforced. It's just human grace taking shape in an online space.

For context, even here some years ago, trolls and cruel and bullying folks showed up and as their cognitive dissonance beset them, some began attacking other posters. At one point the whole place was anxious and suffering and frustrated. Doc G made the choice to make it private then. (It happened even on my church's group FB page, after lofty starting pledges it would never be used for controversy.)

I hope you'll do what you can to remain your own friend and try to lower your expectations, not because of who's good or bad or right or wrong, but because you know YOURSELF and you are the most important person to take care of. Knowing your limits, your triggers, your danger zones (seems to me the theme is other people's bad behavior and injustice, which I certainly understand)...maybe you can still enjoy the good places online and steer clear at the first whiff of toxicity. You don't even have to leave entirely; some places will settle down after a dustup, others morph into something else. You can change your outlets for a while, then check back in. You're entirely free to protect yourself, to come and go as your Inner Friend sits beside you and helps you choose.

You deserve love and company and support and I completely understand how addictive anonymous internet companionship can be and how powerfully loneliness drives involvement. I'm happily addicted to this Board. Dependent. Reliant. Unashamed to be so. But this place is rare.

hugs
Hops

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on May 24, 2020, 03:25:24 PM
Hey Tupp,
Pulled this over from Relationship because it activated my inner script editor! Hope this is helpful, please disregard if it ain't.

Quote
"I feel you only call me when you want something and I'd like our friendship to be more reciprocal - I'd like to talk about that before we meet up again"

I thought I'd parse this (being a compulsive parser):

I feel you only call me when you want something is almost an I-statement. The missing bit is WHAT your feeling is, e.g.:
I feel [a bit hurt, sad, etc] when you don't ask about me in our calls.

Also, one can't use "I feel you....[fill in blank']" to represent a FACT. Many folks who struggle with transitioning to I-statements do the same. They think they're explaining their own emotion but switch right within the sentence to YOU-statements, which are often accusations, even though they may be accurate descriptions. Very natural when feeling hurt, just not helpful to relating differently. And one also has to allow for the possibility that one's over-read or under-read another person's behavior. Or not.

"...you only call me when you want something" may be accurate, but it is also a YOU-statement, which normally puts a listener on the defensive, feeling criticized or judged. That shuts down the chance of better connection and an improved friendship. (If someone said that to me I'd want to withdraw or at least soothe my hurt feelings before I could listen to them or take in what they just told me about their feelings. Who, me? Selfish uncaring friend? Not true! Or, I'm not brave enough to confront myself, I don't want to hear this...etc.)

However, there's a BEAUTIFUL example of a healthy assertion in your quote:
Quote
I'd like our friendship to be more reciprocal - I'd like to talk about that before we meet up again

All by itself, it's perfect. And to actually talk about it, if the other person is willing (no guarantee, and I know that triggers fears of losing someone) -- then if you use the I-Statements and NOT the You-Statements... you'll stand a much better chance of being heard.

Nobody knows what the odds are but if even 1 in 10 fre-quaintances responds with interest or willingness, that's somewhere it makes sense to put some energy.

This probably is not as coherent as I was hoping to be, but I hope it helps. I'm sure YouTube has excellent workshop stuff on assertiveness that's much better. Here's one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zbt_9R8GrM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zbt_9R8GrM) He's good even though he calls a percolater a perculator! LOL

You're doing an amazing job, Tupp. Seriously. I think it's exciting practice. Just remember mistakes ARE learning and don't let yourself get hung up on imperfect execution. You ARE getting it!

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 26, 2020, 11:55:40 AM
Tupp:

It's upsetting to have others COME at us..... especially when they're living in their limbic system, activated, emotional, fearful, angry and telling everyone what they MUST do and feel. 

Everyone wants to come to their own conclusions.  Everyone wants to be communicated with in a respectful manner.   

I would be shocked if you didn't have a negative reaction to behavior like this, particularly bc it's similar to how your mother behaves.  IME the people repeating what they've heard from charismatic talking heads speak this way.  They don't have facts and studies.   They lead with this Lord of the Flies bullying behavior.... and I have the same reactivity around it as you do, but with political discussions. 

I hope you can breathe your way through it.   Maybe you'll discover things beneath the pain that help make sense of it. 

Lighter

Thanks Lighter.  I am the same about political discussions - and disability rights, benefit claimants, asylum seekers, single parents, indigenous populations - you name it, just about any situation.  Not because I object to discussion and/or disagreement but I think it's the demonisation of a particular group in order to justify treating them badly in some way?  And because I know I'm sensitive to it I do steer clear and ordinarily if I see something's going that way I bail out quickly.  I think this one caught me off guard because it's a 'safe' thread on a 'safe' forum and I have chatted with this particular user on there before and she's always seemed quite kind hearted.  So I wasn't expecting it and I'd got most of the way through it before my brain caught up and realised what I was reading (early in the morning, coffee hadn't kicked in).  I think it's the kind of verbal assault aspect of it - someone putting video up or an article or something and saying, "I thought x, y and z when I saw this, what do others think?" is so different to someone declaring it to be fact and labelling everything else an idiot for not already thinking that as well.  It's so bizarre.  It's made me feel that I can only get through this by shutting down even more, which I really didn't want to do - I'm reluctant enough to make the effort to connect with people so having to avoid much of the internet now feels like a bad move.

I am trying to motivate myself by focusing on cleaning the house and clearing out cupboards.  Son is happy doing his own thing in his room.  I did a lot of food prep yesterday and cleaned out the fridge.  Changed sheets on both beds this morning, cleaned and re-arranged the furniture in my room, hauled another load of fabric scraps and unfinished projects out of my wardrobe and put them downstairs with everything else so it's all in one place now.  I've paid off my credit card and have started saving up to move again now; I currently have enough to pay the guys to load the van so it's all steps in the right direction :)  xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 26, 2020, 12:26:46 PM
Tupp,
I have always used facebook, in spite of its negatives, because since I have moved to the big city 6 years ago, I havent had much social life in the external world. I also use it as a kind of directory of different kinds of art, music and places so I probably dont use it in the usual way. It also gives me a window into other people's lives and I am so grateful for it. I know people all over the world on account of it, can you imagine?

Thanks, CB.   The whole reply had me nodding all the way through, although I'm not to good at the 'replying within the quote' stuff so we'll see if this is legible at the end!  But yes, I'm the same on Facebook, I use it primarily to keep up to date on what's going on locally, disability rights stuff, music I like, Lego related stuff to show my son, cute animal pics!  You can't beat a cute animal pic :) And very little for actual people because I still prefer my discussions to be relatively private.  And yes, I've connected with some great autism advocacy groups in the states and it's interesting how similar the systems are in some ways and yet very different in others.

But it is DEFINITELY a pain in the ass sometimes. I have literally left plant groups because they were fighting over the name of a plant!

Jeez, yes, I have many groups on mute so that I only look in there if there's something specific I want to know.  There have been some spectacular bust ups over the smallest things, I think the internet kind of magnifies everything because it's often out of context?
 And people don't always think about the way something might come across; you do need to take more care when you write because you don't have your tone of voice or facial expression to show that you're joking or being sarcastic (or whatever it is).  Things can escalate so fast.


Too much time on my hands, I've made a point during this time of looking up old friends on fb to see what they are doing, and many many of them are subscribers to the conspiracy theories you describe. It is grief producing, especially when you couple that with the venom that often goes with it. Makes me want to cocoon, which is I guess what I am doing!

Yes, and this is what is hard, I think, you're reaching out just wanting a friendly chat or to pass a bit of time and you suddenly find you're in this bizarre world - as if the actual world isn't completely mad right now!  Why on earth make it crazier?  And I must say, I don't mind the conspiracy theory stuff, I love a good conspiracy theory to be honest but it's the personal attacks at anyone who doesn't agree.  Plus I feel it's the disregard of your own skill set and knowledge base.  I don't know about you but because I've had to read a lot over the years about disability, health problems, human rights (in relation to my son) and so on, I have read a lot of conspiracy theory stuff over the years because it does pop up again and again.  I've heard all this before to be honest, it's just rehashed to suit the particular occasion and there are always people who haven't heard it before.  It is easy to get sucked in to it.  I was very anti vaccinations when my son was younger because his autistic symptoms showed up just after he had the MMR jab and at the time it was being claimed that MMR caused autism.  So I completely freaked out and he didn't have any other jabs after that.  But as time went on, I did more reading and understood that my son had showed signs of autism from birth, I just didn't realise that's what they were, plus I did more reading around vaccines and yes, they can cause damage but when put into the context of the lives that are saved each year it's a small risk - no comfort if you're the one the damage occurs with but I have a more balanced view about it now.  Still believe it should be about good quality information and carrots rather than sticks to get people to do it but seeing the 'Bill Gates is going to use the vaccine to microchip everybody' is just a rehashed version of all the stuff I was reading fifteen years ago.

Internet still forces me to set boundaries. Not letting it in. Not letting it be personal. Not engaging with it, as much as possible. Closing the door on it frequently. You did exactly the right thing letting the moderator know what was going on--he/she is obviously sensitive to that, thus the different groups. Melt downs happen. I actually am less comfortable in groups where the moderator gets all wound up too. Just take down the post and keep moving.

Plus a constant reminder of this truth: that these people are not my friends. They don't really know me or my circumstances--and fb is so interested based, they don't really need to, nor do I want them to. And I don't know them either. There are people on groups that I am in, that I would not care for at all in real life. Not a single bit. But everyone pretties themselves up enough to participate in the plant/music/art discussion. Occasionally someone flames out. That's about them, not me. I think those of us who have been deeply formed by our relationships with narcissists have a hard time with that kind of boundary setting. I know I do.

Sometimes it feels like being assaulted by the words and I force myself to remember how very frightened people really are. People who are drowning grasp at anything to save themselves, even the rescuer--sometimes pulling them down with them. It's a struggle to make myself stay in the truth that these posters are ranting into the wind, not at me. It feels personal. But it couldnt be further from it. The ranters have to make people like us as paper cut-outs to believe the way they do. If it was ever truly personal, they would be forced to look closely at what they are doing. They make individuals as symbols, impersonal and distant, in order to make sense of what they are going through.

Yes, this is what I need to do more - it's about them, not me, calm, don't react etc.  I feel they're putting my son at more risk and that's what makes me see red.  I'm so used to fighting endless battles for him that I do need to learn to stop and ask myself if this is a battle worth fighting.  Much of the time it isn't.

And I have to make myself see them as something more than a symbol as well (also very hard to do--my resistance tells me how easy it is to fall into). My personal choice is to be willing to live at poverty level and to be somewhat isolated in order to keep myself well, and my kids well. I dont know how I would feel if I had children that I believed were being harmed by their inability to go to school or to camp. I think often of the people that used to work for me in the restaurants. They are hurting financially right now--many of them have no income and plenty of time to listen to this stuff and let it ruminate around in them.

I get that completely, although interestingly here, it's more the New Age hippy types who are advocating breaking the lockdown rather than people who're out of work (because quite honestly the supermarkets here hired thousands of extra staff when this all started so a lot of people who couldn't do one job signed up for another instead).  And it's their 'human rights' that they're very concerned about, which is basically about them being able to go out when they want to.  And as someone who hasn't been able to do that for years and has just had to suck it up I don't feel a lot of sympathy for people who are happy to make us stay in longer so that they don't have to.  There's no meet in the middle, if you know what I mean?

Many of the entrepreneurs I've known were very accustomed to working long hours no matter what else is going on--no matter how sick they are, for example. Most of them are a tough bunch of cowboys and they got where they did by ignoring personal risk and discomfort--so they are not sympathetic to those of us "hiding" in our houses!  A hair stylist in our country worked for 8 DAYS with covid, not telling anyone, and exposed over 90 people. I used to send home sick waitresses, but I was an anomaly in that business. If you eat in a restaurant, you can count on the fact that someone who has handled your food is not feeling well and your health depends on how carefully they followed sanitary practices on a busy night.

It's the infection rate that's the problem, isn't it?  Our beaches have been packed the last few days, no social distancing, nowhere to wash hands, I dread to think how many people have passed it on to one another.  If it were a case of knowing you were safe because you didn't go to the beach it wouldn't be such a worry.  But it's knowing that any of them can leave those germs in the supermarket, which means they can come into your home on your food and then all the weeks of being so careful just go out of the window.  I've always been careful with colds, because I know people whose kids can end up in hospital if they catch a cold.  My son's seizure risk goes up if he gets a temperature.  So something that's no big deal to some people can be so dangerous to someone else and I think that's the message that isn't coming across in some situations.  I waited tables for years and I know you always need to be nice to waiting staff :)  Lol

All that's to say, I think that most people create a story to allow them to make sense of what is happening to them, and many times they need a whole cast of characters, including villains and expendable crew men. Even if what they create is horrific, there's something calming about thinking you KNOW what is going on when in fact you dont. I feel as though I force myself not to go there and it is very very uncomfortable to try never to let myself light on a story that makes me a victim. It feels like a daily exercise.

You got this Tupp! You are so self aware and on top of it. You aren't responsible for either the crackpots around you, nor the feelings that they produce. I love to hear your stories of your days and the steadiness of them lately. I can often just picture what it looks like as you let yourself relax out of the run, run, run of the last year and let your days flow naturally. I absolutely love what is happening with your son. From my vantage point, it looks like he is blossoming in ways that he wouldnt have with your past schedule. How much of life to we spend trying to fit into the world and its values? And, it turns out, he is completely occupied during this time when he can focus on what matters to him.

Thanks, CB.  It feels very up and down at the moment.  My mad menopausal symptoms aren't helping (I am missing my acupuncture!  Son is doing well.  He's very interested in everything that's going on and reads all the news reports and science stuff that goes with it.  Not knowing when it will end is hard for him and having me keep telling him the politicians don't tell the truth is confusing for him - but best he learns it now!  Thank you xx

CB
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 26, 2020, 12:43:07 PM
Tupp, loneliness is driving so many people onto forums and FB and rabbit holes online. I understand why. I'm vigorously protective of myself online (this is my only forum but what a trusted one) and I am positive I'd be poisoned by a lot that goes on elsewhere. The only places I participate are Comments sections (under a handle) in the Washington Post and NYTimes, though I read a lot of other media too. Even my "safe spaces" get invaded at times.

I think the intruder in the fact section is a form of TROLL. Some people thrive on bullying and insulting and destabilizing others, and unfortunately the internet is not a classroom where a decent teacher might intervene. There is no serious intervention on the internet, it's like the Wild West. An exciting and interesting and powerful place, but it also has its psychological risks--especially for the lonely. A place like this, which leads with empathy, is extraordinary and rare, ime. One filter for me for any forum would be limited membership and active moderation I trust.

I can't quibble with anyone who's isolated being involved in any way, but I do see it's quicksand in some areas. Expecting empathy or consistency there seems to be Error #1. Any place online can be "emotionally hacked" by someone lacking in conscience or self-regulation.

If you add up incels, the right wing, and cable propaganda channels, to name just a few...the online universe is a risky place. Some folks can thrive there because they are just emotionally unhooked from whatever any stranger will say or do there, however toxic. Other folks need to be wearing their invisible helmets and heart shields. I'm one of those too.

I will be so glad when you can go forth to dance church again, and re-experience what gentle, friendly and unaggressive humans are like in 3-D, and how many are still around you.

Hope you can filter yourself somehow, or set a timer, or remind yourself every time you log on to take EVERYTHING through a filter. Not a filter of paranoia, but a filter of self-love and protection. Being your own Inner Friend, who knows you intimately and loves you and cares about you enough to help redirect you when convincing others to think logically or be compassionate to each other seems impossible.

I think on the internet, it is mostly impossible. When kindness does happen in places and for periods of time, it's just GRACE rising, I believe. Not the rules. Not enforced. It's just human grace taking shape in an online space.

For context, even here some years ago, trolls and cruel and bullying folks showed up and as their cognitive dissonance beset them, some began attacking other posters. At one point the whole place was anxious and suffering and frustrated. Doc G made the choice to make it private then. (It happened even on my church's group FB page, after lofty starting pledges it would never be used for controversy.)

I hope you'll do what you can to remain your own friend and try to lower your expectations, not because of who's good or bad or right or wrong, but because you know YOURSELF and you are the most important person to take care of. Knowing your limits, your triggers, your danger zones (seems to me the theme is other people's bad behavior and injustice, which I certainly understand)...maybe you can still enjoy the good places online and steer clear at the first whiff of toxicity. You don't even have to leave entirely; some places will settle down after a dustup, others morph into something else. You can change your outlets for a while, then check back in. You're entirely free to protect yourself, to come and go as your Inner Friend sits beside you and helps you choose.

You deserve love and company and support and I completely understand how addictive anonymous internet companionship can be and how powerfully loneliness drives involvement. I'm happily addicted to this Board. Dependent. Reliant. Unashamed to be so. But this place is rare.

hugs
Hops

Thanks, Hops, yes, nodding all the way through as always!  I think it caught me off guard because it was a 'safe' thread on a 'safe' form - I've purposely been careful about what I'm reading and where I'm reading it.  It was like finding a big spider in my shoe!  Really startled me and very unpleasant.  They will have moved the post to the conspiracy thread and I know that many on there feel the same way that I do because we've discussed it but I've not logged back on yet and don't think I will for a while.  I do want the connections and the information but I don't need the upset as well so I'll steer well clear for a while.  And yes, I do need to filter it better and think more than I react.  I think the loneliness is a big problem, and particularly right now as no-one's really doing anything, so when I do talk to people we can't talk about where we've been or where we're going because no-one's out!  Lol, so it's making real time conversations more difficult, plus everyone is tired, stressed and fed up.  I find myself reaching for some online content at those times so I think that's part of it as well - more vulnerable at that time and then whacked in the face with something.  I do need to learn to move on from it quicker and not let it get to me.  It feels like someone's standing at my window with a megaphone shouting in my window when it happens.  Just very intrusive and unpleasant.

And yes, I actually found this place after very unpleasant trolling on another forum!  There had been problems for ages and they weren't being sorted out.  Someone on there found this place and said, "Hey!  I found this place!  It looks good!"  And I've been very fortunate to be here ever since.

I was following the dance church group online and unfortunately a lot of them were/are in the conspiracy theory camp and there were some huge rows breaking out about it so I had to unfollow.  The guy who runs the group was handling it all well (he has health concerns and wasn't allowing any gatherings to happen at the house; some didn't like that and were very critical of him).  The lady who posted on the forum (the one that led to this post) also runs a communal living place so I will have to ask direct questions if/when we start looking around at intentional communities to see how this was handled - it would provide good insight, I think.  But for now, yes, I'm just avoiding.  Cleaning the house, cooking, texting and phoning people when possible.  Getting through the day as best we can.  Thank you xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on May 26, 2020, 03:47:21 PM
Tupp:

It's upsetting to have others COME at us..... especially when they're living in their limbic system, activated, emotional, fearful, angry and telling everyone what they MUST do and feel. 

Everyone wants to come to their own conclusions.  Everyone wants to be communicated with in a respectful manner.   

I would be shocked if you didn't have a negative reaction to behavior like this, particularly bc it's similar to how your mother behaves.  IME the people repeating what they've heard from charismatic talking heads speak this way.  They don't have facts and studies.   They lead with this Lord of the Flies bullying behavior.... and I have the same reactivity around it as you do, but with political discussions. 

I hope you can breathe your way through it.   Maybe you'll discover things beneath the pain that help make sense of it. 

Lighter

Thanks Lighter.  I am the same about political discussions - and disability rights, benefit claimants, asylum seekers, single parents, indigenous populations - you name it, just about any situation.  Not because I object to discussion and/or disagreement but I think it's the demonisation of a particular group in order to justify treating them badly in some way?  And because I know I'm sensitive to it I do steer clear and ordinarily if I see something's going that way I bail out quickly.  I think this one caught me off guard because it's a 'safe' thread on a 'safe' forum and I have chatted with this particular user on there before and she's always seemed quite kind hearted.  So I wasn't expecting it and I'd got most of the way through it before my brain caught up and realised what I was reading (early in the morning, coffee hadn't kicked in).  I think it's the kind of verbal assault aspect of it - someone putting video up or an article or something and saying, "I thought x, y and z when I saw this, what do others think?" is so different to someone declaring it to be fact and labelling everything else an idiot for not already thinking that as well.  It's so bizarre.  It's made me feel that I can only get through this by shutting down even more, which I really didn't want to do - I'm reluctant enough to make the effort to connect with people so having to avoid much of the internet now feels like a bad move.



Tupp:

I'm not sure what you mean by shutting down, but it makes me uncomfortable for you.

Letting something go by..... choosing not to latch on to it, or give it energy is different than shutting down TO ME, but maybe we're talking about the same thing here?

I really hate for you to lose community that brings you comfort and fellowship.   These upset people, living in their limbic systems, activated by people who want them upset and angry..... will always be around us. 

I don't know if it's possible to always let them go by, without giving them energy or time.  If it is, that's what I'd choose for us both so we don't lose anything positive in our lives too.

Does that make sense?

I'm glad you're creating more sacred space and feeling motivated... on your way to having resources to make the move when it comes your way.  I bet that feels very solid and true and hopeful.
::nod::.

Can you mute the poster who's struggling right now?  Or stay off the threads they're on? 

Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 26, 2020, 05:49:09 PM
Hi Lighter,

What you're saying does make sense to me, but I feel like I have shut down inside, if that makes sense?  I feel very dead and empty.  And the effort of having to navigate the crazy out there - I don't feel like letting it go comes naturally to me at the moment, it feels more like it grabs me by the throat.  I don't feel like I've got the energy to put into working on letting it go become the default setting, at the moment.  I feel like keeping out of arms reach is the only way I can manage it right now.

I think I feel very overwhelmed just now.  We have such an incompetent government, along with many people either having to work alongside the virus without PPE and those who don't seem to be taking it seriously and are gathering in large groups.  The lockdown has been relaxed somewhat, they're opening some schools and shops next week but there's still no effective test and trace in place, one hospital has had to close it's doors this week because they're full of Covid patients again (after numbers were starting to go down) with other's saying they'll be following suit shortly and an ICU doctor at one of the big London hospitals saying on Twitter today that Monday just gone is the busiest day they've had yet.  I'm conscious of the fact I've no legal set up in place for son if something happens to me.  I'm trying not to think about it all too much and worry needlessly but equally it's a problem and unfortunately it looks like our Government's approach is going to be leaving it all to chance and seeing what happens.  It feels very hard for me to keep him safe at the minute and I find that difficult to cope with.  The staying home part doesn't bother me, it's the fact that other people aren't staying home that's the worry - the virus is simply spreading again because they haven't contained it (and I'm baffled as to why on earth they'd initiate a lockdown which is a huge, expensive undertaking - but then lift it before the problem is sorted out?  Surely it makes more sense to either not do it at all or do it until they're on top of things?  I don't get it).  Anyway - I just kind of feel at the minute that dealing with the crazy is beyond what I can cope with just now.  So I'm planning to avoid for the time being xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on May 26, 2020, 11:24:30 PM
Then avoid away, Tupp.  You know yourself better than anyone. You're more than capable of doing what you need to do for yourself.

I will ask some questions my T would ask me if I was having this conversation with her.

Are you safe right now?

Can you act to make you and your son safer in this moment?

I'm sorry you've been pried out of your happy place. 

Can you find a way to get back in that headspace?

You're being miserable and shut down isn't going to change anything about your Government's choices right now.

I'm usually railing against acceptance when I'm activated and upset in similar ways, ((Tupp.))

I hope you feel better soon.

Lighter

   

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 27, 2020, 02:17:55 AM
Then avoid away, Tupp.  You know yourself better than anyone. You're more than capable of doing what you need to do for yourself.

I will ask some questions my T would ask me if I was having this conversation with her.

Are you safe right now?

Can you act to make you and your son safer in this moment?

I'm sorry you've been pried out of your happy place. 

Can you find a way to get back in that headspace?

You're being miserable and shut down isn't going to change anything about your Government's choices right now.

I'm usually railing against acceptance when I'm activated and upset in similar ways, ((Tupp.))

I hope you feel better soon.

Lighter

 

Thanks Lighter.  I will try to answer honestly - first, instinctive response.

We're not safe right now.

There's not anything I'm aware of that I can do to make us safer right now.

I think I can get back to a better headspace - but it means no more OPD (Other People's Drama).  It's almost like having to patch up the hole in a boat and you need to get all the water out and dry it first otherwise the patch won't stick.  I feel like that at the minute.

No, nothing I do is going to change Government choices and I think that's the thing that scares me the most.  Other people's choices and actions are the danger and even staying in doesn't keep us completely safe from that, partly because of the 'germs on packaging' issues, partly because of the lack of medical care or support if either one of us gets it (particularly son), partly because of the damage to health from not being able to do our normal healthcare appointments and the staying in for many months (years?).  The fear of what happens to him if I die is the most terrifying thing to me, and I try not to think about it but equally I do need to plan for it.  I've a friend who would take him if something happened to me now but he'd have to go into isolation first because of her son's health problems and that would mean a care home and people are being left to die in care homes.  If he does get through that and gets to her she's in a similar situation to me, that she doesn't have legal rights on his behalf.  Her son has multiple health problems so she's already got a lot on her plate.  Plus my mother, the ever present danger.  I do wish I'd sorted out the legal stuff before this happened but it wasn't a priority.  I'll do what I can now but of course that means thinking about it all, which is scary.  So it keeps kind of looping.  But it's alright.  The sun is shining, washing is on, cup of tea to hand, I'm planning lots of yoga today, my period is easing off.  You guys are here.  We'll get through this xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 27, 2020, 02:23:50 AM
Hey Tupp,
Pulled this over from Relationship because it activated my inner script editor! Hope this is helpful, please disregard if it ain't.

Quote
"I feel you only call me when you want something and I'd like our friendship to be more reciprocal - I'd like to talk about that before we meet up again"

I thought I'd parse this (being a compulsive parser):

I feel you only call me when you want something is almost an I-statement. The missing bit is WHAT your feeling is, e.g.:
I feel [a bit hurt, sad, etc] when you don't ask about me in our calls.

Also, one can't use "I feel you....[fill in blank']" to represent a FACT. Many folks who struggle with transitioning to I-statements do the same. They think they're explaining their own emotion but switch right within the sentence to YOU-statements, which are often accusations, even though they may be accurate descriptions. Very natural when feeling hurt, just not helpful to relating differently. And one also has to allow for the possibility that one's over-read or under-read another person's behavior. Or not.

"...you only call me when you want something" may be accurate, but it is also a YOU-statement, which normally puts a listener on the defensive, feeling criticized or judged. That shuts down the chance of better connection and an improved friendship. (If someone said that to me I'd want to withdraw or at least soothe my hurt feelings before I could listen to them or take in what they just told me about their feelings. Who, me? Selfish uncaring friend? Not true! Or, I'm not brave enough to confront myself, I don't want to hear this...etc.)

However, there's a BEAUTIFUL example of a healthy assertion in your quote:
Quote
I'd like our friendship to be more reciprocal - I'd like to talk about that before we meet up again

All by itself, it's perfect. And to actually talk about it, if the other person is willing (no guarantee, and I know that triggers fears of losing someone) -- then if you use the I-Statements and NOT the You-Statements... you'll stand a much better chance of being heard.

Nobody knows what the odds are but if even 1 in 10 fre-quaintances responds with interest or willingness, that's somewhere it makes sense to put some energy.

This probably is not as coherent as I was hoping to be, but I hope it helps. I'm sure YouTube has excellent workshop stuff on assertiveness that's much better. Here's one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zbt_9R8GrM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zbt_9R8GrM) He's good even though he calls a percolater a perculator! LOL

You're doing an amazing job, Tupp. Seriously. I think it's exciting practice. Just remember mistakes ARE learning and don't let yourself get hung up on imperfect execution. You ARE getting it!

hugs
Hops

Hops, this is really helpful, thank you.  I really struggle with this stuff, particularly when saying it, especially when not prepared.  I get flustered and it never goes well so this is really helpful to practise with.  "I feel you" to represent a fact makes so much sense to me now, but I never got that or noticed it before.  I could instantly see how I'd done exactly that in the past when I have to tried to do this.  No wonder it hasn't gone well.  I'm going to practise on the cat :)  Lol xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 27, 2020, 12:12:50 PM
And the death toll has gone up today.  They started to relax the lockdown two and a half weeks ago.  Yesterday the first hospital announced it was full and couldn't take any more patients, for any reason, including A&E.  Others expected to follow soon.  It's literally a living roulette game now.  New Zealand have reported no new cases for five days now, with 21 deaths and a four week lockdown.  We're in week 11 and they still haven't got test and trace set up and people are still flying into the country without checks.  Which is particularly ironic as the whole Brexit fiasco is supposed to be about 'closing our borders'.  Bleurgh.
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on May 27, 2020, 01:06:50 PM
Blurgh indeed. Our local cases are rising fast. I hear you, but have decided to keep my head in the nice warm sand for a few days more. Daily tracking (M does this first thing every morning) really only helps me gauge the intensity of LOCAL risk if there's an urgent errand, like pharmacy or gas, etc. But generally I just Do Not Go Out, which simplifies things. I know you have to, for some foods. I don't get up early enough to take advantage of the super-early hours, but I could.) I don't wear a mask in the car when I drive to M's, nor at his house, nor for backyard-visits, but I have one in the car and others by the door in case there's a pressing need to. And I wear one around my neck on walks I can pull up if someone comes near. The most frustrating possible exposure is runners. They must get on a high that numbs them, because even a middle-aged woman ran within a couple feet of me, breathing hard with no mask...the last time I was on the street.

But the important question is: how did the cat respond?

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on May 27, 2020, 01:34:41 PM
PS   I really like CB's gentle and wise perspective on fears. Not adding freakout-level stress about things not yet done.

Yes, it'll be good to nail down a legal plan for your son. No, it's unlikely he'll lose you to Covid-19. Much more likely it'll be MANY years from now, after you've had a whole lot of time to visualize decent plans for him.

(CB, I do hope you'll do a new online will -- there are many free templates or small-fee ones online, like at NOLO.com. For anyone who wants to do it, FiveWishes.org is a fantastic, very inexpensive online Advanced Directive legally binding in 50 states.)

Hugs y'all,
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 28, 2020, 03:27:47 AM
Tupp,
I was thinking about the individual ways we react when we feel threatened or feel that our loved ones are threatened, when we feel powerless, or confused, or frightened. I talk my way through this process (to myself!) whenever I have some anxiety.

Everyone doesnt react the same way, and whatever way we react, it is often temporary as the initial strong emotion wanes a bit. Some people come out swinging, some burrow in, some avoid, some look for allies. We usually react in a way that reflects our past history. If you were more of a target with Nmom if you were visible during stress, you learned to not be visible. If you bucked the system to no avail, you learned to avoid. If allies were few, you learned to figure out your own safety plan.

I hope you don't get too caught up in whether you are reacting the way you should. You are very self aware and when you are ready to test some other ways of dealing with the stress, you will. Most of us will deal with it the way we are most comfortable, and for some of us, it will be the exact right way to do so. Others will choose their usual way of dealing with stress and it will throw them into harms way. We are sure seeing that on a daily basis in the news.

This is very helpful, CB, thank you.  I'm trying not to overthink how I think but it's difficult!  Lol.  I think you're right, we do revert back to old ways and patterns and mine is always to assume I'm getting it wrong.  I'm not finding the lockdown itself difficult to deal with, it is the behaviour of others which I know is going to make our lives harder for longer.  That's the bit that bothers me and where I find it difficult to balance being in touch with the outside world and avoiding it all completely.  I feel like a midpoint is healthiest but it's hard to find where that is - and maybe because it keeps changing?  The conspiracy theory stuff has spilled onto the forums, I think, because Facebook and YouTube shut it down.  So those of us who'd moved to a safer space to get away from it suddenly had that safety removed because they followed us across.  I've only peeked at the other forum since and didn't look at the actual thread or post but it has a little counter tally on your page where people can show they supported your posts (bit like 'Like' on Facebook) and a lot of the forum members had been supportive of what I wrote.  I still don't feel like I can be active on there at the minute but it reassured me that most of them feel the same way I do and would be willing to shuffle those sort of posts of elsewhere, so to speak.

Just a thought about your worries with regard to the plans you haven't completed for son's future care: you didn't complete that in the past because you didn't see a real imminent threat at the time. You might calm yourself by looking at how much of a threat there is right now. I see you being very very careful about when and where you shop. That's going to lessen the risk.

Also, the new studies being reported is that there is less risk of the virus coming in on grocery items than we once thought. Letting paper and plastic sit in place for a day will probably be all you need to do for those items. Anything like a milk carton or egg carton, you can wipe down and leave out to dry for an hour and then put in fridge. Fresh fruits and veggies can be cleaned the way you usually do when you are ready to use them. Wipe off the counters where you are working as you usually do. That's probably ample prep and you are probably already doing it.

That is helpful, we are still being told here it's three days so less time is reassuring.  I am being careful washing everything including myself, plus we don't get lots of deliveries, food is once a week and I've bought the odd thing for my son but it all gets left on the step (I think all the delivery drivers here are doing that as standard at the moment).  Our risk is relatively low (and the part of the country we're in has had fewer cases than some other parts of the country; we're not as densely populated here as the big cities are).  I am trying not to think about 'what if' but I do feel very conscious of not having any back up should we get sick.  Although saying that there are people that could at least fetch food and so on.  I did decide to buy in more 'ready to cook' food.  I don't usually do it because I think cooking from scratch is healthier but I think I'll feel a bit more reassured about being able to feed him if I get ill if I got plenty in that can just go in the microwave.  It's little things, isn't it?

In addition, I make a point of having the delivery leave the items on the porch and then going out after they are gone. It's the virus in the air that is most contagious. I usually wear my mask for good measure. You are probably being MORE careful with food and other items than you were in the past--and so are the stores and delivery people.

You have lowered your risk on many other things that might have occurred if you were going about your daily life--you aren't going to get into a car/pedestrian accident, for example. If I'm feeling anxious, these kinds of thoughts can calm.

Yes, our risk of catching it is lower, I think it's knowing he's more likely to be seriously affected by it that worries me (and for myself to be honest - my chest is my weak area, anytime I catch a cold it goes to my chest and I had a really nasty chest infection a few years ago that saw me in bed for a month.  If it could only be caught by close contact I'd feel so much more relaxed about it but as you say, it's airbourne. I am avoiding shops though, I've been able to find pretty much everything we need online now and have got myself into enough of a routine to get things delivered at the right time.  It's taken a while and a lot of searches and planning!

In the States we have a lot of available options for medical care without going to the doctor's office. You can often have an appointment online and if you need prescriptions renewed that can be done online and they can even be delivered. Do you have that available? If you need blood tests, that would need to be done in a lab at least. Depending on the test, some can also be done at home. My tests came due just as we were entering shelter in place, and I called the dr office and asked if this needed to be done immediately, or could it be put off. They were happy to put it off for a couple of months because there is a range of time within which you can stay current. You may very well still be in that range.

We can get our scripts done, it's the hands on treatments we're missing.  We both have acupuncture and osteopathic appointments regularly, mostly for stress related stuff.  Son has various joint and muscle problems and my back is terrible so the osteopath puts all the bits back in the right places.  Obviously they're all closed now and I've no idea when they might be safe to use again because it is such close contact.  I think we're both missing those now, I could see son's legs are starting to point the wrong way when he walks and my back's been really sore.  The acupuncture helps with my mad menopause symptoms and oh boy, they were very evident over the last week or so.  It will be nice to be able to get back to doing those at some point.  I think it's also that feeling of being looked after as well, you just lie down and someone else does all the work.  Heaven :)

Anyway, that's how I think when I am anxious the way you are--and I frequently am. I, too, neglected my will and the only one I have that anyone could use is the one that my husband and I made. That needs to be updated and should have been before now. It was just a detail that got lost in all the life I lived between then and now. It was the first thing I worried about when the shelter in place began. This will all be over soon, we have probably been through the most of it and we now know EXACTLY what is a priority to us and we will deal with it as soon as we are able.

There are always more pressing things to deal with than those sort of paperwork issues, aren't there?  My will is still okay and there's
a trust set up that my life insurance pays into for him; it's not a fortune but it would help out with things he needs.  I'm just going to chip away at setting up the various things that need doing; I'm finding even in lockdown there is still stuff to do that takes priority over the paperwork!  Always paperwork to do, it never seems to end.


In some ways, I feel that this time has been ideal for thinking through issues that I just never got around to before because each day was a rush. Things like what you are anxious about were probably a low lying anxiety all along, but now you can look at them clearly, make a plan and be ready to tackle it in a few weeks time. At least that's what I'm feeling. I realized that my son and I are both driving cars that spend 99% of their time parked. I drive 5 min to work and he works from home. We pay over $200 a month in car insurance for our cars, plus all the preventive maintenance each needs. This time has made me realize that we could easily share a car, cut both of our expenses and both of us can save for a future car when that makes more sense. We actually could have done this long before now, but I never had the time to think it through.

That is good, CB, and it's amazing how you can see changes when you've got the time and space to think and you aren't constantly rushing from one thing to another and dealing with feeling poorly as well.  Are you still finding that your pain is reduced?

I have had other things like that as well, I'll bet you do too. Even if, at times, you feel overwhelmed, overall you are really using this time well to rethink your priorities. You are an encouragement to me.

Thank you, CB.  I really appreciate everything you've written.  Phew.  We will all get through this together, won't we?  Thank you xx
CB
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on May 28, 2020, 06:08:45 AM
Blurgh indeed. Our local cases are rising fast. I hear you, but have decided to keep my head in the nice warm sand for a few days more. Daily tracking (M does this first thing every morning) really only helps me gauge the intensity of LOCAL risk if there's an urgent errand, like pharmacy or gas, etc. But generally I just Do Not Go Out, which simplifies things. I know you have to, for some foods. I don't get up early enough to take advantage of the super-early hours, but I could.) I don't wear a mask in the car when I drive to M's, nor at his house, nor for backyard-visits, but I have one in the car and others by the door in case there's a pressing need to. And I wear one around my neck on walks I can pull up if someone comes near. The most frustrating possible exposure is runners. They must get on a high that numbs them, because even a middle-aged woman ran within a couple feet of me, breathing hard with no mask...the last time I was on the street.

But the important question is: how did the cat respond?

hugs
Hops

Thanks, Hops.  I've just about managed to organise getting everything delivered now so can avoid shops, plus have been able to stock up a bit so we've got enough to tide us over if we need to hide out.  We're back doing small local walks in the evening when it's quiet, although son has refused the last two days as the death rate's rising again and that bothers him.  Will try to get out for a little walk this evening though, I do think fresh air and a bit of sunshine, albeit late evening sun, is helpful to both of us.  And yes, the legal plan will get done, I know a lot of people are in similar situations, worrying about what will happen to their loved ones.  We've not encountered any runners; we are lucky that when we go for a walk the paths are wide enough to give people a wide berth; there are grass verges one side and quite roads the other so there's always somewhere to step to the side if need be.  That's good.

My friend is in London and was telling me that their local parks are full of people, impossible to social distance, kids just running around playing freely without adult supervision to keep them away from each other.  I find that baffling.  We walked to our local park last week and parents had kind of measured out safe spaces for their kids to play in with bags and jumpers so that the kids could run but still keeping away from other kids (just within family groups).  A lot had taken play tents and sun shades so they each had their own camps to focus on.  I thought that was smart.  One family had three kids on scooters and as soon as they saw us they jumped to the side of path and stood still until we passed; obviously mum had drilled them with it.  I did thank them and tell them how lovely they all were.  I think my frustration is you only need one person not to play the game and it puts so many others at risk.

The one encouraging bit of good news in this morning's article about how our death toll is the highest in the world (!) is that the part of the country I'm in has had the fewest excess deaths.  Little comfort for those who have lost someone but statistically we are in the safest spot right now.  I'm really trying to focus on the good bits, without doing the Pollyanna, Stepford Wife bit :)

The cat is considering her response and will be issuing a written report in due course :)  Lol xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on June 01, 2020, 04:37:47 AM
Well it's June 1st here now.  Half way through the year and only three weeks away from the longest day and it feels very strange to be in this situation and to know that there may well be worse to come and we could easily be in until the end of the year, if not longer.

I've been thinking a lot over the last few days and the funny thing about this enforced isolation at home is that I am finally doing some of the things I've been trying to do for so many years, without having to try.  I am finding it easier to think about today and not be constantly planning for some point in the future when everything will be different.  I spend very little time in the present moment, I think because of the childhood abuse, and I've always found it very difficult to focus on where I am in the here and now.  But it's feeling easier as we go further into the lockdown and I'm assuming that's because the external stress has been lifted a lot.

I'm also finding it easier to let go of the past, particularly past friendships, which has always been very difficult for me to do.  But I'm feeling now that I can look at certain friendships and accept that they used to be good and a big part of my life but that they aren't any more.  And to give one example, I chatted on the phone with a friend who I felt had let me down badly over this last couple of years and I'd been feeling very hurt by her lack of contact and support.  And that makes it very hard for me to do chit chat or just catch up because I feel like I have things I want to say but I can't say them so I end up not doing anything.  But yesterday we talked, it was nice and it just felt like a conversation.  I didn't have a battle in my head about whether we were friends, whether what happened was okay, whether I should spend time with her and so on.  It was just a nice chat, if we chat again fine, if we don't, also fine.  And I'd not consciously thought about it before we spoke, it was just how I felt afterwards, and it was nice.  Felt like a big chunk of something has just sort of melted away and that was good.

I'm also finding the endless criticism that whirs around in my head has reduced and that's nice as well.  I watched loads of telly on Saturday and there wasn't a thought in my head that I ought to be doing something else.  It was just quiet and I sat with my feet up enjoying CSI.  It was good :)

And finally I have made a big effort to cut down on caffeine and sugar.  I know it's not good for my health but I find it so hard to cut down when I'm in my usual 'rushing about' mode, so I made a big effort to cut back four days ago and so far, it feels alright.  All in all, things feel pretty good today xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on June 01, 2020, 10:54:31 AM
Those things sound so much like

GOOD MENTAL HEALTH!

I'm so happy to read this, Tupp.
I think it's huge.

You really were present, just to the experience of talking to someone.
You had no scorecard but were just being a human talking to a human.

You are doing something wonderful, mentally. Like Voluntary Simplicity for the mind.

KUDOS. I need to copy you right now.

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on June 01, 2020, 12:38:31 PM
Those things sound so much like

GOOD MENTAL HEALTH!

I'm so happy to read this, Tupp.
I think it's huge.

You really were present, just to the experience of talking to someone.
You had no scorecard but were just being a human talking to a human.

You are doing something wonderful, mentally. Like Voluntary Simplicity for the mind.

KUDOS. I need to copy you right now.

hugs
Hops

Thanks, Hops  (((((((((((((((((Hops))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

I wish I could say, "do it like this and it will work" but I've honestly no idea why it's suddenly happening.  I've been trying for years, decades even, to be more in the here and now and not get so hung up on things, be able to let things go, not 'read between the lines' in every situation.  So why it's just coming without an effort now I don't know but yes, it has been a nice couple of days and today has felt easy.  I feel like I've lost the need to have to accomplish some sort of super human feat every day.  We've cooked, chatted, watched a movie, there is good news that 69 hospitals have not had a Covid related death for two days now, it's only part of the picture but we've taken that little crumb and the smile on son's face when I told him was a picture :) It just kind of feels easier.  yes, good mental health!  What's that, then? :) Lol xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on June 01, 2020, 12:56:53 PM
Tupp, you've worked very hard to feel better and find ways to stay in the moment.

You didn't do all that to remain mired and I'm not surprised your head's popping up from underwater, though it seems odd during a pandemic.  It's occurred to me.... the collective worry might take a smidge of worry off the shoulders of those dealing with years of ongoing worry and struggle.  There's focus and worry and discussions, at least.  Maybe it works like...
 putting Biofreeze on the many nerves in an area of the body where ONE nerve has been spasming.. it takes the pressure off that nerve by activating the rest.  I  have NO idea, but the thought's popped up while pulling weeds. 

You've also gathered helpful tools and put them in your toolbox... even though it's not always easy or possible to remember when or how to use them.  They're there.

Lighter

 

Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: CB123 on June 01, 2020, 01:23:09 PM
thanks for sharing that Tupp!

I think for some of us the shelter in place may be a life changing moment. I hate what has necessitated it but I am so grateful for the gift of time.

You expressed it so well.

CB
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on June 07, 2020, 08:40:49 AM
Tupp, you've worked very hard to feel better and find ways to stay in the moment.

You didn't do all that to remain mired and I'm not surprised your head's popping up from underwater, though it seems odd during a pandemic.  It's occurred to me.... the collective worry might take a smidge of worry off the shoulders of those dealing with years of ongoing worry and struggle.  There's focus and worry and discussions, at least.  Maybe it works like...
 putting Biofreeze on the many nerves in an area of the body where ONE nerve has been spasming.. it takes the pressure off that nerve by activating the rest.  I  have NO idea, but the thought's popped up while pulling weeds. 

You've also gathered helpful tools and put them in your toolbox... even though it's not always easy or possible to remember when or how to use them.  They're there.

Lighter

 

That analogy of freezing all the nerves in order to deal with one works for me, Lighter, I do get what you mean.  The situation has upended our place in the 'normal' world, I think.  Staying in suits us so much better than going out, even more than I realised.  I think it has to do with quality as well - having a good time doing something you enjoy with people you enjoy being with is much more rewarding than just having to be 'out' and dealing with people and situations as they occur.  It will be good to continue being much more selective about what we do and where we go in the future.

I'm enjoying being able to think about what I'm 'creating' rather than feeling overwhelmed by so much that needs to be done each day.  Even making a meal or a snack feels better if I think about creating sustenance and nurture for myself and son, rather than it being one more task I have to fit into the day.  I like having that time and headspace and I'm going to try and hang on to that if I can.  I'm about to do a bit of sewing as well; I hardly ever get time but I did a little bit yesterday and this afternoon is clear so I'm going to do a bit now - home made masks first and then if they go well a bit more work on son's patchwork cushion.  It's nice to be able to do things rather than just feeling so tired that even watching television feels like too much effort. xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on June 07, 2020, 08:42:28 AM
thanks for sharing that Tupp!

I think for some of us the shelter in place may be a life changing moment. I hate what has necessitated it but I am so grateful for the gift of time.

You expressed it so well.

CB

The gift of time is a big one, isn't it, CB, it's been so helpful for us.  Just nice to have choices about what to do (or what not to do) and not to feel that those choices are always being made by other people or other circumstances.  It does make a nice change.  Especially if you have bunnies to watch!  Lol xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on June 08, 2020, 07:13:39 AM
I'm noticing how much time I spend thinking and reliving past events, sometimes from decades ago.  It makes me wonder about autism again.  My son can't imagine something he hasn't done before, you have to relate a future event to something he did in the past otherwise he can't attach any meaning to it.  I notice something similar in myself; much more subtle but I've been thinking today about how, each time I've experienced a life crisis or change of some sort I've gone back to what was familiar before.  I couldn't cope when I finished Uni; I had this fancy degree under my arm but I didn't know what to do with it so I went back to cleaning and then went off to do more training.  I didn't recognise it at the time but I had huge anxiety about going off to do new things, particularly on my own and, I noticed, without drink or drugs to prop me up.  During the party days I'd go off to all sorts of places, but always drunk or high.  I wonder now how much of that was to deal with anxiety or fear.

I've done it many times; I loop round and go back to people, jobs and places that I knew before, even if I wasn't happy and/or didn't get treated well.  I did it over the weekend; contacted another ex boyfriend and even as I did it I was thinking, Tupp, this guy is a waste of space, this is nuts.  But I still did it anyway.  Venturing into new pastures would be getting brave enough to put a picture up online and actually putting myself out there - not literally at the moment due to the lockdown but you know what I mean.

And the same with work - I've spent the last fifteen years waiting to get back into teaching when I could have been looking at doing something else.  I'm not giving myself a hard time about it, just noticing it.  Even though I'm looking at various places on my 'where to move next' mission, the ones I really want to move to are places that I already know.  The thought of a completely new place, people, facilities - it scares me.  And I've never really admitted that to myself before.  Suddenly everything feels scary.  I don't have any control over the future and I think that's what I always try to do - if I stick to things and people and places from before then it's not completely new.  There's always a foundation point to focus on.  I think it's a bit like being a big fish in a small pond?  I feel more confident talking about politics, for example, with people who I know have a very basic knowledge.  The idea of discussing it with someone who knows a lot more than me scares me.

Hmmm.  Could that be it?  Could so much of my life be to do with avoiding fear and anxiety instead of feeling it and seeing how it goes?  It is an interesting thought and I'm going to keep it whirring round in my head while I carry on cleaning the kitchen :) It's amazing how cleaning can free your mind up to think about other things :)
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on June 08, 2020, 08:41:27 AM
Tupp,
BRAVO to you for this: I'm not giving myself a hard time about it, just noticing it.

That's flipping fantastic. And your thinking seems really sound to me. Even folks I know with only a toe or two on the spectrum have a very difficult time with newness, change and uncertainty, and in some cases develop some degree of social anxiety. When people with full-blown autism depend on repetitions and structures and self-soothing that's rhythmic (repetitive), why would it not be the same for folks with just a tinge of that neuro-difference? I can completely understand why there's a tendency to return to old even though outworn people/places/rituals.
They're FAMILIAR, and deep in our unconscious minds we often choose familiar, even bad familiar, because at least we know what it is and so, what to expect.

I'm so glad you're pondering all that without punishing yourself for it. I'm not even on the spectrum as far as I know but I was riddled with anxiety for decades. Any insight whatsoever that encourages you to treat yourself kindly and never blame yourself for traits or choices you've done your best to understand, is a good one.

The tough part is that so many brilliant people with a touch of Asperger's or high-functioning autism wind up struggling to make a career or comfortable social circle, because of that anxiety.

Naming it, though, is very very powerful. Anxiety just is. It's a symptom, and new ways of thinking about it and soothing it (like EMDR) can reduce it a ton. I used to have terrifying panic attacks off and on for years (we're talking going to the emergency room with chest pain anxiety). And I haven't had one of those in DECADES.

There's a lot of possibility that your anxiety will keep on withering under your gentle, non-judgemental regard. Without judgement, and without self-cruelty, anxiety tends to self-heal with loving experience.

I sound like a Beatle but all you need is love: self-love. That practice. And you're getting it! HOO-AHH! (My favorite line from Scent of a Woman, that Al Pacino movie about the blind man.)

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on June 08, 2020, 01:04:30 PM
Thanks, Hopsie.  It does suddenly seem more plausible that I've avoided anything that isn't completely new for the sake of familiarity and therefore have found myself in the same situation more than once, rather than it just being bad luck or some kind of 'nothing ever works out for me' thing.  It's kind of ringing a bell now.  And yes, I've had panic attacks like that as well, awful to experience, fortunately my anxiety seems to be milder than that these days.  I'm not quite sure what to do with myself now I've noticed it, other than take little steps forward instead of heading back over and over again.  I feel a bit excited about moving forward?  Which is good xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on June 08, 2020, 01:48:47 PM
I'm happy to read you're feeling excited about moving forward, ((Tupp.))  I suppose it will come and go as you get used to noticing, and considering, and selecting responses based on what you're learning about yourself. 

The mind learning like a crab....
 forwards, backwards, sideways thing should always be remembered, IMO.  It helps when the feeling of moving backwards comes up, IME.  It'sjust the way the brain works.

I spoke to a friend last night about the 2 months she spent in residential group therapy.... it sounded amazing.  Horse back riding, massages, nutritionist....but the things she liked most were the EMDR, biochemistry/neurofeedback, and group sessions.  We talked into the night sharing everything we learned with each other.  I'm amazed at the leaps of understanding and abili8ty to make sense of what's happened, what's going on inside, and how one brings coping strategies into adulthood from childhood. 

So, yes.....
to looking forward.
Lighter
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on June 09, 2020, 03:58:50 AM
I'm happy to read you're feeling excited about moving forward, ((Tupp.))  I suppose it will come and go as you get used to noticing, and considering, and selecting responses based on what you're learning about yourself. 

The mind learning like a crab....
 forwards, backwards, sideways thing should always be remembered, IMO.  It helps when the feeling of moving backwards comes up, IME.  It'sjust the way the brain works.

I spoke to a friend last night about the 2 months she spent in residential group therapy.... it sounded amazing.  Horse back riding, massages, nutritionist....but the things she liked most were the EMDR, biochemistry/neurofeedback, and group sessions.  We talked into the night sharing everything we learned with each other.  I'm amazed at the leaps of understanding and abili8ty to make sense of what's happened, what's going on inside, and how one brings coping strategies into adulthood from childhood. 

So, yes.....
to looking forward.
Lighter

That retreat sounds amazing Lighter, is your friend there for longer or has it finished now?  It's good having someone to talk to that's done similar things, it's hard talking to people who've never done it, the common ground isn't there?  The crab analogy makes sense; that's the thing, isn't it, remembering it's not all forward progress.  Still progress, just doesn't look like it all the time.

I had an odd little experience last night.  I started reading a book on autism that the EMDR lady recommended.  It works on the theory that autism is caused by trauma.  I was shocked.  I've spent most of my sessions with her working through the baggage that's been caused by the repeated allegations that I've caused my son's disabilities.  My own trauma has come from repeated claims that I traumatised my son so badly that I made him disabled.  I'm baffled that she recommended a book that lays that out as a theory.  It makes various other claims that have all been debunked over the years and goes against much of the work done by autistic adults to secure their own rights and voice, to be recognised as autistic adults rather than slightly defective 'normal' people that need fixing.  It mentions 'curing' autism, a concept that I'm fundamentally opposed to and claims autism is linked to vaccines, another aspect that's been thoroughly debunked over the years (and I know a lot of this stuff precisely because I've been falsely accused so many times and I had to do a lot of research to keep proving it wasn't true).  I'm quite taken aback that she recommended I read something that is actually the kind of book my mum would wave around to prove it was all my fault.  I feel like she missed the whole point of all the sessions we had.  It's been quite a revelation.

I'm still thinking about some sort of advice/consultancy service and reviewing those kinds of books could be part of that - linking all the science that proves or disproves different theories so that people who are dealing with a new diagnosis can decide for themselves which things they think are relevant and which aren't.  It's very difficult when you have a little one you're trying to help and all these different people telling you, 'this is the way to do it'.  It's hard to work your way through all of that and having some advice might be helpful for some people.  I've put the book underneath the laundry basket until I'm ready to deal with it.  Lol xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: lighter on June 09, 2020, 11:43:09 AM
Hi,  Tupp:

My friend went to the facility for a month.   When she came home her son said they didn't fix her, and sent her back for another month.  Turned out the Ts said her son wasn't ready to hear what she needed to SAY to him.... his problems were about HIM... not about her.  He needed to spend time in T himself. 

Friend said she's looking for a trauma informed T.... practicing EMDR for sure.  She's having trouble finding one, particularly bc of COVID climate.  She's learning to draw and finds joy in it.... therapy too. 

About the EMDR T book on autism.  Don't you think autism is generally misunderstood and confusing?  I do. 

I'm trying to draw up, gain some distance on this and SEE what your T sees.  It's wrong thinking.  It's not informed.  It's ignorant...... and it's coming up for you now. 

I wonder if it IS a message for you.  Maybe you're supposed to put together a consulting service for parents with autistic children or dealing with their own autism.  I don't know.  Just saying.... get some perspective and spaciousness around it and lean in with curiosity.  Nose off that pebble..... drop all judgment... the, IMO, doesn't mean harm.  She just doesn't know any better.  I learned to treat that kind of situation as an opportunity to educate. 

Teaching is the next step in learning, IME.  I can imagine you having a career in consulting or writing around this..... not that you have to.  Sometimes I feel we're drawn to the parts of our lives we haven't made peace with.  That speaks more to unconscious participation than mindful choice.  I'm trying very hard to LISTEN to that, for myself.  What I'm drawn to.   Why?  Is it something I see when I'm not mindful, or is it a path I'm drawn to in THIS moment, and not bc I'm still wrestling with past painful moments I need to finish processing.

In any case.... be wide awake, and present.  I'd certainly ask the EMDR T WHy she recommended this book... and I'd try to remain neutral and curious about her answer.  You'll likely be very surprised by her answer, IMO.  Whatever she says, she's only human, has her flaws and is struggling with her own problems, like the rest of us.

I do think a mental health professional holding these outdated views is a sign of sorts... I just don't know where the sign is pointing, my dear: )

Be curious.  Hold yourself with tremendous self-compassion..... trust the T has good intentions, even if they're uber misguided.  Drop all judgment and remember to bring focus to the things creating somatic responses in your body.  Things upsetting you.  Things taking away peace.  Lean in and see what's behind it. 

Lighter


Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: CB123 on June 09, 2020, 12:59:07 PM
Tupp,
I think you did a great job with the initial shock of being handed something like that. You will know what to do when you get your thoughts sorted out, but I am probably not feeling as charitable as Lighter. If she has been your therapist for awhile, she knows what your triggers are and if she had some other ideas she would like you to consider, doing so as part of a therapy session instead of a book would probably be more helpful.

I just want to give you support if you decide this therapist is not for you. I have found that I have "graduated" to different therapists depending on where I am in my journey. I know I'm not saying anything you don't already know. I have less and less energy to defend against such things. In most of my relationships, I can just move them to a more distant sphere although that would be tough with a therapist.

Just know that, in the mental health field, blaming childhood trauma is a common theme unfortunately.

CB
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Hopalong on June 09, 2020, 01:47:06 PM
Yup.
Her book recommendation and her lack of depth of thought about autism is a damn shame, since she's been truly helpful to you with EMDR and your own trauma.

KEEP those gains, that amazing experience of finding out your brain could change. Her getting out of her lane with an ignorant and unhelpful book recommendation would give me serious pause too. But KEEP those gains you experienced with her.

Please.

You've got options. There are other EMDR therapists, and good ones. That's one option for when you can safely go to appointments again. You KNOW this healing modality is powerful and helpful for you.

Reminds me of when I sought out hynotherapists in a truly desperate search to beat my smoking addiction (which I am positive would kill me early as I was having serious breathing difficulties at 30). First one worked for a time until I realized there were boundary issues between us, and it wasn't healthy to keep on with him. Second one was an utter fruitcake of a shrink who was very skilled and empathetic and helpful with the hynotherapy at the RIGHT TIME for me, and I believe helped me save my life.

Neither were perfect. In both cases, I didn't stay long term. But the life-changing benefits I took from the present help that DID work with them, well, changed my life for the better and forever.

So DON'T get hung up on her irrational, ignorant imperfection. I'd suggest shutting her down from the autism discussion and perhaps moving on to another if that's what your inner wisdom says is best.

The one thing that would really harm you and undermine those beautiful gains would be to ruminate over and over about the disappointment that she has a fat blind spot that may make her unable to help you with the rest of it.

She helped you with your brain. She showed you how to EXPERIENCE a different response to triggers, etc. That was so freaking huge I believe it did change your life, and begin a positive cascade.

I wish you nothing but good in releasing the rest. It is what it is, no healer is all-knowing or perfect and if her blind spot is undermining to you continuation with her (but not with the healing work), that isn't tragedy, it's just change.

You are okay, Tupp. Continue your peace. You created it, you earned it, you deserve it, AND you can continue it. You truly can.

hugs,
Hops
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on June 09, 2020, 01:52:40 PM
Hi,  Tupp:

My friend went to the facility for a month.   When she came home her son said they didn't fix her, and sent her back for another month.  Turned out the Ts said her son wasn't ready to hear what she needed to SAY to him.... his problems were about HIM... not about her.  He needed to spend time in T himself. 

Friend said she's looking for a trauma informed T.... practicing EMDR for sure.  She's having trouble finding one, particularly bc of COVID climate.  She's learning to draw and finds joy in it.... therapy too. 

About the EMDR T book on autism.  Don't you think autism is generally misunderstood and confusing?  I do. 

I'm trying to draw up, gain some distance on this and SEE what your T sees.  It's wrong thinking.  It's not informed.  It's ignorant...... and it's coming up for you now. 

I wonder if it IS a message for you.  Maybe you're supposed to put together a consulting service for parents with autistic children or dealing with their own autism.  I don't know.  Just saying.... get some perspective and spaciousness around it and lean in with curiosity.  Nose off that pebble..... drop all judgment... the, IMO, doesn't mean harm.  She just doesn't know any better.  I learned to treat that kind of situation as an opportunity to educate. 

Teaching is the next step in learning, IME.  I can imagine you having a career in consulting or writing around this..... not that you have to.  Sometimes I feel we're drawn to the parts of our lives we haven't made peace with.  That speaks more to unconscious participation than mindful choice.  I'm trying very hard to LISTEN to that, for myself.  What I'm drawn to.   Why?  Is it something I see when I'm not mindful, or is it a path I'm drawn to in THIS moment, and not bc I'm still wrestling with past painful moments I need to finish processing.

In any case.... be wide awake, and present.  I'd certainly ask the EMDR T WHy she recommended this book... and I'd try to remain neutral and curious about her answer.  You'll likely be very surprised by her answer, IMO.  Whatever she says, she's only human, has her flaws and is struggling with her own problems, like the rest of us.

I do think a mental health professional holding these outdated views is a sign of sorts... I just don't know where the sign is pointing, my dear: )

Be curious.  Hold yourself with tremendous self-compassion..... trust the T has good intentions, even if they're uber misguided.  Drop all judgment and remember to bring focus to the things creating somatic responses in your body.  Things upsetting you.  Things taking away peace.  Lean in and see what's behind it. 

Lighter

Thanks Lighter.  I do feel drawn to some sort of support/consultancy/advice type work, although something outside of the system.  Something for people like me who feel the system hinders rather than helps and want to do things in their own way, at their own time.  It's interesting that you mention autism being confusing and misunderstood because to me, it isn't.  I've read so much and done so much with my son over the years that it makes perfect sense to me.  So that highlights that it might be good for me to help
other people make sense of their own situations.

I've thought about it a lot more today and I think that perhaps I've taken a different perspective to her, because of our different experiences.  She's read it as a therapist and it focuses on the role of the polyvagal system in autism (cornerstone of EMDR).  So she would have, understandably, focused on that bit of it.  I didn't get as far as that, because the parent blaming/vaccine damage/let's find a cure bit put me off so quickly after just a few pages that I didn't get further in, I just skimmed through the rest of the chapters to see what else was in there.  It's likely I'd have had a much more positive reaction if I'd skipped the intro.  It just caught me because it was exactly what I've been accused of but it's quite likely that part of the book didn't register with her because it wasn't the relevant bit for her (she may have skipped the introduction!  I always read them lol).

I will read it at some point; it may be that some of the other stuff is useful.  I just feel that anything that starts with something that's been proven to be untrue isn't going to be very reliable but I might use it as a starting point for doing some other research and see where that takes me.

I hope your friend finds another T!  I think they'll be in high demand once we all come out the other side of this xx
Title: Re: What's New for 2020?
Post by: Twoapenny on June 09, 2020, 01:59:57 PM
Tupp,
I think you did a great job with the initial shock of being handed something like that. You will know what to do when you get your thoughts sorted out, but I am probably not feeling as charitable as Lighter. If she has been your therapist for awhile, she knows what your triggers are and if she had some other ideas she would like you to consider, doing so as part of a therapy session instead of a book would probably be more helpful.

I just want to give you support if you decide this therapist is not for you. I have found that I have "graduated" to different therapists depending on where I am in my journey. I know I'm not saying anything you don't already know. I have less and less energy to defend against such things. In most of my relationships, I can just move them to a more distant sphere although that would be tough with a therapist.

Just know that, in the mental health field, blaming childhood trauma is a common theme unfortunately.

CB

Thanks, CB, I appreciate the support.  I had finished my sessions before the lockdown started so this was a book she'd recommended quite a while ago.  I think maybe she just didn't pick up on the 'blame the parents' bit because it is literally two sentences in the introduction.  I'm so sensitive to it that I can spot it a mile off so my radar went off immediately and then, for me, it kind of demeans that rest of what's written.  I had finished with therapy anyway so I don't need to find anyone new, but I did think that once I've had time to go through the book properly and look at the different aspects of it I might contact her and just politely point out the things that may be triggering to a parent of an autistic child if she wants to recommend it in the future.  She may be genuinely unaware, especially if she read it a while a