I'm covering all the expenses around here so far - but that is going change over time, too. I want people to explore and refine their skills, and learn new ones. There's Hol's sewing; Steve's mushrooms & herbal tinctures; Buck's metal work... my various mediums.
the other thing that's crossed my mind (god forgive me) is that I still don't know the whole story
I could never have given them what they have forged for themselves in the past decade. I remember a saying that when a child is born, so is a mother. I think when a child grows up, so does a mother!
I worry that the instinct to bend, give him another chance (after a year??) and basically deprive herself through the choice of "the bird in the hand" versus trying to find what she wants - REALLY - might again take the upper hand.
He doesn't interact with ANYONE Lighter. Not me, not even a good morning - much less: is there anything you want me to do today? He avoids John completely too. You can't change the bf's behavior. You can put boundaries in place around your space, your tools, your expectations for housework, IMO.
I'd interact with him directly, cutting Hol out, and let him know he's responsible for his own messes or he can find a place with a maid to deal with it. THIS space doesn't come with maid service as of today, but I'm in a mood, and I see it just that way. When Hol has a problem with it... and she will... I'd invite her to move into her own place if she plans to allow her bf to pig up the house one more day. She can take all her furniture and personal items with her when she goes, and I'd say it in a very firm but pleasant tone..... no discussion. Just the way it is. I wish I'd done more of that when the boy was here with us. Now I wonder why the heck I didn't, bc it seems so simple now.
And because half the peeps he ordered (baby ducks & guinea keets) arrived dead - he didn't want to interact with Hol either.That's heartbreaking. Sorry that happened to those babies.
It's weird. No thank you, when I buy the non-usual things he prefers to eat or one of us cooks/cleans up after his 3 yr old messes. I'm shocked he has 2 maids cleaning up after his adult self. I'm shocked you're buying his preferred foods, honestly.
When I asked Hol about it, she said he said (which is the only way I'm getting information about him)... that he doesn't want to be in my way around here. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This isn't being considerate; it's some elaborate means of getting what he wants - WITHOUT having to reciprocate.Whatever it is... it doesn't sound sustainable. He's avoiding you, I understand that.
He's avoiding John. I understand that too. HE KNOWS he's not carrying his own weight but has no intention of changing, IMO. I'd want him out of my space under these circumstances. No judgment, just..... no. He's not your ward. He's not your bf. He's certainly not your child. Why does Hol feel you'll put up with his over the top really bad houseguest behavior?
She's willing to put up with it. Fine. She has her own space and I know it's not finished BUT IT IS HERS. She shouldn't have asked you to put it with this big child boy. I wish you hadn't allowed her to, but what's done is done.
What to do today about it? What CAN you do today, if anything?
If he's training you, and Hol... .how do you see that working out when Buck arrives?
And he's begun yelling at her. And THIS is as good as that's every going to get, IME.
It's a downhill slide from there, IME. It sounds pathetically stupid - but I'm going to the studio and making a sign to post in the kitchen that says I'm the only one allowed to yell in this house. I'm thinking MR. Avoidance won't pick up on it or admit if he did. It would, again, be time for him to move on, where that is. Because, here's the deal: I can ask directlly to stop doing that... and I get more response from a concrete wall. Or he leaves; runs away. Which is one of the things Hol is complaining about, btw. I have pointed out that it's not likely to get better when they move into the hut. All I could control is where the chucklehead doesn't yell at my dd and I'd feel perfectly within my right to insist he do it outside my space,
bc it's not cool, I would never condone it and, considering how I feel about these things and where they typically go.... I'd send him OUT of my space right after he did it so he KNEW, and Hol knew and John knew and the dogs and cats knew.... it's not cool, won't be tolerated, and that's the best things would get with me around while that happened.... things are likely to escalate with me, as well.
My T would want me to allow dd to come to her own conclusions about what she'll put up with and demand from men. FINE. What I won't do is allow it to happen under my roof, where it affects me. I get to feel OK in my space. I get to say who's IN my space. I get to make calm statements, skip explanations, and get my needs met... take care of myself... take care of my business.... make sure other's people's business is on their plate.
In fact, the yelling might not be OK on my property... anywhere. There have to be limits. Hol can fall out of love with MR. NOT THERE FOR HER anywhere. It doesn't have to be under your roof, or on your farm, IMO.
Here's the thing: it's HER relationship to deal with. But it's MY house. And there are certain things that I need from people in my house. You've needed those things for a while.
You've been thwarted. I don't understand how that's still happening EXCEPT you're worried about your relationship with Hol. In the long run, Hol might balk and rage and complain and whine but she'll see you modeling how to calmly deal with unacceptable behavior, which is more important than those two manipulating you into allowing this to go, IME. Of course, I could be completely wrong, and am willing to consider that.
SO.... I'm very wary of him. I don't dare cross the boundary of throwing him out myself.
You... don't dare cross the boundary. After all the boundaries those two have shoved down your throat and made you eat. After the situation turned toxic... you're still purchasing groceries and allowing this chucklehead man to roam your house at all hours, scream at Hol, pig up your HOME, take and lose your tools, refuse to interact EVEN TO DISCUSS HOUSE RULES AND the standards you've set, his failure to comply and what consequences are involved... then follow through with the consequences.
Maybe that's the discussion...
setting consequences for failure to honor boundaries then follow through without hesitation or worry about what Hol will do, say, scream, bc it's not her home. It seems like I'm reading about a property you and Hol own together.... as though she's a partner you have to put up with, bc you have no power to make requests and expect they'll be honored.
Requests. You're way beyond making requests, and I'm not talking about anger here. It's about making calm statements, not getting dragged into arguments or explaining your actions BECAUSE ALL THE ADULTS in the rook have been asked nicely, suggested to, asked clearly, been snapped at and still they ignore you.
Hol asks too much, IMO.
You shouldn't have to help her pretend the man isn't pigging up the space. Isn't expecting the maids to handle his mess. Neither of you are his maid. Better he learn that before Hol has a child with him... before Buck lands... before you lose your mind.
I'd say it right to the man....
"Time for you to go now... yup yup yup.... now. It's the Hut or wherever else you feel is appropriate but it's now and it's all your stuff too. Lets go... out."
I'd repeat that and only that.... maybe remind whoever gets in your face they were warned, consequences were laid out, those consequences were real and it's time to go... out the door...
now.... all his stuff.... if Hol is too upset to remain in your home, she should take all her things and go with the chucklehead. It's time. He has to go.
Rinse and repeat till the problem is OUT of your space and knows he can't touch any of your tools vehicles, daughter without the next set of consequences falling on his head.
Is that too strong? I don't feel it is right now, but you're more than capable of handling this, Amber and I trust you will.
Lighter
silly giddy happy and brainless (in a good way)
And just generally floofing about not doing anything serious at all.
I actually feel... calm. Surrounded by a gentle, restful peace. Normally, I'd be in overdrive and trying to get everything done all at once. But not now. It's as if in some emotional logic sort of way... I'm feeling the reverse of the process of grieving and letting go I experienced these years after Mike passing.
Yes it's a relief. We've done some imagining how it will be - whether we'll still hang out in the studio together, front porch sit... whether I'll visit down at the hut, etc. Just feeling out individual and joint expectations and daydreams. S actually helps with her controlling her drinking. Until he triggers her anger, that is. LOL. Same things that bother me, DO bother her - but she's trying hard not to admit that. LOLOL.
S is an enigma to me. I can't for the life of me suss him out - and the only things that are even close to coherent are pretty negative. But for now, it's pure bias on my part. It's not possible to discuss any of that with him. As to the birds - yes, we already have mature geese; lost some chickens; the fence went up to try to contain them (mostly successful) and we've added guinea keets now. He mostly cares for them and has been improving their shelter. Hol hopes to have her own pond - and then the birds will move. I will kinda miss seeing the geese playing on the pond. That sounds so peaceful, Amber. I'd miss the too.
We've gotten as far as agreeing on a process for planning, approving, etc various projects... and I will also have a land lease agreement in place that will protect both of us - and spell out the basic rules. It helps actually, that Steve is privacy-minded pretty much like me and is already comfortable with the lack of external "entertainment" out in the boonies. He is still abnormally quiet - but he DOES seem comfortable enough talking to me one on one casually. And after the tool-upset... he's learning. Ahhh, he can learn! That's huge. Also, I'm glad you can BE with him comfortably now. I'm not able to do that with dd's bf right now and we;re going to have a chata about it tomorrow.
Part of that issue - Hol grew up on the first homestead; she KNOWS how many rules were in place to insure that we preserved tools, didn't make extra work, and took care of our investments - whether stuff we bought or grew or built. S grew up in Chicago - and simply doesn't have those habits yet. We didn't have a lot of money, so it was IMPORTANT to take care of tools, because you may have to do without if you didn't have the money - or availability - to get more. Putting things back was critical when more than one person was working - so time wasn't wasted looking for things.
S never learned things like that before. So, while my mind is boggled that someone who claims an affinity for stewardship... feels it's fine to litter, and not take care of tools which let you care for your plantings and animals... it's less the "not caring" variety than just sheer ignorance of the requirements of this lifestyle. Well, has he stopped littering and scattering tools to the wind?
I'm scary to him, because I can and DO, express anger in it's pure form - emotionally & verbally. I'm very seldom physically angry... but when I am it's contained inside my skin with no outward actions. And I s'pose that might look like a manifestation of Kali. LOLOL. The dangerous goddess. Lightning in the eyes... stormclouds on the brow... every molecule vibrating at nuclear meltdown frequency... angry. Oh, and I'm LOUD. I'm sure I was heard all the way down the hollow and maybe over the ridge. I'm glad you can express yourself, Amber. I'm having a come to Jesus chat with myself about how to handle this discussion with the bf. I think I'm scary to him... well. I know I am. I don't want things to be weird, if he's going to spend time here. I want to have an understanding, like you seem to have with S now. I'll take responsibility for not being more proactive and getting things straight up front. He can speak to me respectfully, without finger pointing and whining, and we'll iron thngs out.
Took me an hour to get my blood pressure back to normal the last time; it's been YEARS since I've been that angry. I even scared Hol. (Takes a LOT to scare her; she was a Baltimore bartender.) I didn't realize you'd had a "discussion" like that over the tools, but I'm glad you provided clarity. It had to be done. There have to be limits.
That shovel re-appeared out in the barn last time I looked; John found the knife I keep out there.
I guess that's why Hol comes by her "force of nature" description honestly. Yup.
For all I grew up with Mennonite environments and pacifist behaviors... there is no denying the Celtic/Viking genes running loose in me too. Can & will fight, as needed. I reconciled those two opposites, for the most part but it took over 50 years. And it's still a work in progress. So, that equation looks like - "can and will, but don't like or want to". I understand.
Life doesn't give a crap what illusions I might expect from it, upon reaching the arbitrarily-declared "retirement" age... it's going to keep challenging me whether I try to create a place to hide from it or not. No matter how many bits & pieces I've already mastered. And since I don't get to choose who will be Hol's partner... I have to adjust, with as much grace as I can muster - or just be myself. LOL. Sometimes, I just gotta be me... and take the consequences. Everyone takes the consequences: )
Fortunately, this is one thing Buck already knows about me and he understands it, too. I'm hoping he'll be the storm cloud to your lightening bolt... on your side, rarely aimed at each other, but capable of holding your own, both of you, if it comes to that on occasion. Couples who disagree are more likely to make it long term, bc they iron things out, rather than pretend things are OK.
OK - enough lollygagging! I'm wasting daylight... and now starts the countdown of to-do list before Buck arrives. (So I'm not rushing around or working sunup to sundown...) I just fertilized the garden, then the rain started so it's break time. Good luck getting everything the way you want it for B's arrival. And.... remember... if it's not OK... it's OK. NOthing has to be perfect. Making time to focus on him and being present is the important thing. THINGS can wait. I'm so excited for you!!! Lighter
He just has an acceptance that invites me to that party.
All the little things I worried about - didn't matter once he was here.
It's just so easy and natural to be with him.
I was just absolutely terrified of going through hurt or disappointment again. Being bereft again.
I doubt he wants to lose contact with his senses, and you, in that way, in any case, as a theme in this relationship is what I'm trying to say. It seems unlikely to produce any positive outcome, and more likely to produce negative outcomes, IME.
Just bc you CAN deal with all that anger... doesn't mean you should, I guess? Maybe?
Maybe everyone benefits if you aren't so masterful at being so strong, brave and competent at handling other people's sideways upside down emotions. Maybe everyone benefits if you're less competent and comfortable?
Not saying you should judge, or condemn them, or yourself.
Amber, I would really really like for you to be in a relationship where you are not the coach or the therapist. Just yourself. Just a good, smart, creative woman who'd like to enjoy and share life in peace.
the toxins started leaking away from my eyes... from happiness this time. Not loss; not yearning; or frustration...
I can say with certainty I'm never been in relationship with any guy who was so spontaneously, emotionally, giving. And it's so incredibly simple and uncomplicated. He doesn't tell me; he shows me by how he is with me. He knows I can take care of myself.
I've learned to be a lot more open and less apologetic about talking about my feelings; expressing some difficult topics too... and navigating those conversations more neutrally.
his presence - it's like instant relaxation magic for me
This hasn't been an easy year for either of us.
this week's separation really turned dark on me. Almost a replay of losing Michael...
...it persisted even after I woke up this morning... so I simply DECIDED...
I'm not going to do that. It's OK, he had to go away for work for a week. I'm truly FINE.
There are some parallel plots going on in the farm story right now. Different streams of activity... like different wet weather streams in a downpour - which we might get this week. Not the trop storm so much - but what the storm is going to run into; a weather feature coming out of the upper midwest/great lakes. Thunder storm just rolled over us, Amber. I do love the rain.
Hol has been working at the Hut; removing the wrong color of grout in her master bath shower so it can be regrouted. Heat gun and utility knife work - miserable but not physically difficult. She's just about done. Plumber has been busy connecting kitchen sink & bathroom stuff. Electrician worked Sat, too. This week looks to include moving her appliances down so the gas ones can be hooked up. Interior doors going up; trim getting finished; painting the few odds & ends left. Then, she's headed to B'more to help one of co-workers move. His wife has been going through chemo - and they are moving her and the little one first, as a virus precaution. Then the assembled crew - mostly people from the production crews - will dive in on the bigger stuff. The tv series that was postponed by the virus has been cancelled, so it's a good thing all those people have side jobs. Hol wasn't sure she was going to go back to work. The next weekend - my house will get emptied of her stuff.
You so often hit all the high points, IMO, and leave me feeling I have the big picture... and need nothing else from your posts to feel informed and caught up: )
Over the weekend, she invited out a friend & his wife that she hasn't seen in a long time. They live out of the city - but jumped at a chance to go somewhere for a change of scenery. He builds garden structures - ike greenhouses, solar systems, etc. And have a homesteader mentality. He and I hit it off and talked late into the darkness; I'm covered in mosquito bites... but we were trading his ideas & my long decades of being interested in this life. Years & years ago, I remember being on the first homestead - and telling Hol I could see her becoming the cliché farmwife with chickens, dogs & cats, & kids running around the yard. I smile to myself, seeing her make that transition - her way of course.
That warms my heart. How kind of Hol to lend that hand. I hope she stays safe.I hope being around a little one doesn't jerk her emotions around too hard for wanting her own. Is she still talking about having a baby?
B had a very productive week on his training mission. One student reminded him, of him at that age. He spent a little more time with him - just as he did, with the guy who'd trained him. It was his first - and last - deep dive (100 ft or more) since his injury. And he got closure on that whole part of his life. Some of the diving gear got an appropriate "burial at sea". 17 to 65 is a pretty big chunk of someone's life. He called me a couple times over the weekend. Once when the dog, Seth (Hol's friend) & I got stung by yellow jackets.... LOL. I didn't see the nest when we walked around the deck. No major problems; B was just being protective. That can feel really new & strange to me; but I LIKE it. Sometimes I do remind him, I can take care of myself, though.
I so get that being able to take care of yourself, but also having a place where care and concern are welcome. It's a delicate balance, IME. I don't know why it sometimes brings up reactivity, but it does. Well, I DO know, but it has nothing to do with your stuff, thank God.
I didn't get TOO stuck in overthinking all these new feelings and the "knock you on your butt" intensity of them. I asked for, and got, the reassurance that I wasn't imagining how he feels about me. We are doing the trade, I described in the SHAME thread... so that our individual puzzle pieces of self are coming together to form a new picture. I had to transfer the one text he sent me, to my journal. So I flipped back, to the beginning marker - about my first weekend at the little cabin back in spring '16. Before I bought the farm. It was 6 months after Mike died.
The comparison is interesting. What happened as a result of that experience for me, was beginning a journey back into the whole world of Pre-Twiggy emotional intensity. All the stuff I had to "put away" to get all of my cognitive synapses firing in functional order after the trauma. Hops mentioned shame... I was shamed for how emotional I was as a result of all that trauma. I was expected - it was demanded of me - that I pull up my boots and keep on truckin' somehow. As if what had happened was just a minor insult. Those feelings were the full panorama of emotion, in living color. I think I get that too. The stoicism.... the need to get through and not feel weakened or weak or vulnerable or allowed to have normal human emotions while there's so much to be done. Does that make sense to you? And it was ALL shutdown, in an attempt to keep my anger under wraps... because that emotion and it's intensity wasn't "comfortable" for other people around me. (Nevermind, it was a direct cry for HELP.)Familiar too. Funny I did meet other people in those early days who completely understood it... and started to help me figure it out. But the people I counted on the most just made things worse. Neighborhood people, teachers, my step-dad... they all helped...
and countless boyfriends and 3 husbands. LOL. I mentioned my stubborn persistence, in the other thread. LOLOL. I never stopped LOOKING for someone who could understand and accept that part of me. It would appear that B was on the same quest... and needed what I can give him too. A whole nother B is waking up too, in this process of working to be together. And communicating that between us... just blew the overthinking, doubts, and uncertainty right outta the water (why do I think I'm going to use that analogy a lot more??? LOLOL). This is real & it's for all the marbles this time. It's "what you see is what you get"... simple. Happy is now a new flavor in both our lives - and we're not clinging to any one particular moment of it... instead we're creating ways to manifest that as often as we can. IME, it's a rare and cherished thing to be loved, even when speaking a less than popular truth. It's a rare thing to be with people who respect your views, even though they don't agree, or don't get what they want in the moment. It feels like a good marker in relationship. Does this person treat me with respect and kindness, even when receiving sometimes painful information? Can they hear it? Can they process and discuss it, and accept it, without trying to change it?
I feel kinda like I'm designing myself a new life role... and I think I know where I got the idea from; but of course, it needs to be tailored to me. And Buck. Yup.
And I'm going to weave a new balance between left-brain competence and right-brain emotion & processing. It's already starting... and some of it, I'm not even directing. That's OK too.
I just love it when a plan works out. LOLOLOLOLOL.
The difficulties and challenges will lead to more strength and understanding, IME. Sometimes disagreement and discomfort are messengers....
something has to change.
Nothing has to be broken. A tweak is just a tweak and all relationships are navigated and morphing, as a matter of healthy course, IME. You're surin'real good, ((Amber.))
Lighter
....Hol and I are going to have a very straightforward heart to heart talk - again - about ... what she's knows already about her relationship - and what has to happen for her to feel it's a two-way relationship. Or not.
Lighter, if I could, I would lock things up. Logistical reasons; practical reasons; why that's not possible. But that, IMO, is the least of the issues here. This is more of a - you don't bite the hand that feeds you lesson for S... and no work-y, no eat-y. I've gotten several spontaneous genuine "thank you" hugs from Hol - but never once have those words left his mouth... like he's a "little prince" and just expects everything to flow to him from everyone.
Yes Hops, I still own everything; I will pay the additional taxes on the hut - and it's my house too, until I ride off into the sunset. The land lease lets them rent use of X amount of land and gives them a legal basis to residence in the hut, without it being a rental situation or creating an additional income (and taxable income) situation for me.
It's an understatement to say I don't like this aspect of him. And given that the rest of the time, he simply lurks around here like a ghost (except for working on HIS stuff) I truly don't know much else about him. But often our children hook up with people we don't like. I don't have to like him... but one thing you simply do NOT do, is make a personal demand from one's benefactor (his checkbook balance aside) in an attempt to protect your male ego territorial rights. Especially, when you don't step up into that role of protector, provider and equal partner. I can see where B would threaten him that way. But then, most people would try to talk through those kinds of things and get to know - or at least SPEAK to a new person that's coming into your home, or at least where you're living, if you were concerned, right?
B isn't a physically big guy. Divers are necessarily smaller to get into awkward places working on ships & subs. He also doesn't project a dominating, controlling or "bad person" menacing energy around him - in public or private. He's capable, yes. So this is all S's insecurities, and I haven't seen enough redeeming qualities to consider him a permanent "feature" here. Not with how close he is to ex-girlfriends. One of which, seems to have the same entitlement attitude he does. She was dropping broad hints to Hol during the last visit (oh, yes... I'm so intolerent & rigid, right? /read: sarcasm) about designing/building her own house out here. EXCUSE ME???? I don't think so.
It's not like I had much of a choice about S moving in here. Hol presented it to me; was dead set on it; and it would've definitely risked our relationship for me to say no. And I've been bringing my wishes & concerns to her about his behavior ever since. That has covered the continuum, of me asking her to ask him - since he doesn't talk to me or acknowledge me when I talk to him - to modify his habits/behavior... to my nuclear melt-down over the tools when I was trying to work.
She is definitely squarely in the middle here. And I know the same things that irritate me are going to irritate her when they don't change. I know that he doesn't have clue one what the word commitment means. But it's like if she brought home a stray dog that had problematic behaviors that weren't able to be changed or commandable - and has the clear & obvious traits of turning on you. (And yes, that fact about not being able to change people when they tell you who they are, came out my mouth during the group meeting in front of him.) I am going out of my way to not make her misery any bigger than it is, and to remain non-confrontational or force her into any decisions. But I'm not letting her try to polish this turd and pretend she's happy when she's not. She brings up issues often, before I utter a word. And since I express emotions with my whole body - she clearly knows when I'm upset or angry.
Until she makes the decision on her own, that this isn't what she wants to live with... I feel like my hands are tied. But then, I've also been running through a couple hard & fast "no's" that might be forthcoming after I've calmed down a little. As far as I'm concerned - if B's presence here, without any overt actions on his part - is so upsetting to S that he must leave - I don't really care. And if Hol is fool enough to chase after him, I won't try to stop her. This guy is a player, a taker, and he doesn't WANT to fit in and participate and shoulder the work here. And he doesn't care anywhere in his psyche want anyone else wants.
Not something I want around here. Period. My concern is Hol; and getting her the therapy she needs to stop repeating this pattern. Her anxiety levels are off the charts; and so is her energy to "do". She is positively excited about moving into the hut and his resigned, OK, I'll help you do that - if we can do this tomorrow - and no, I require a nap or food, or a walk right now instead - is truly grating on her. When she wants to be heard & her feelings/thoughts/ideas validated she seeks me out... because he really only sees her as the object that provides for his needs/wants and just isn't there for her - or gets angry at her for disturbing him.
I know what happens when resentments build up over a long time of trying to resolve a problem that only gets pushed off the table because it's not "convenient" at this very moment.
Lighter, if I could, I would lock things up. Logistical reasons; practical reasons; why that's not possible. But that, IMO, is the least of the issues here. This is more of a - you don't bite the hand that feeds you lesson for S... and no work-y, no eat-y. Oh, Amber. There's a difference between us.... when my stomach "clicks" as my father used to say... that's IT. That man would be told the tools are OFF LIMITS to him and why. I did that with my "renter" on the island..... I took the keys. I told him WHY I took the keys. I was sorry I had to remove his access to the tools, bc I'm sure it impacted his life in a very striking way. It didn't matter. He never would have been respectful of the tools, no matter how I asked.
You might not be able to lock the tools up BUT you can put boundaries in place... S CAN'T GO INTO THE TOOL SHED or borrow tools any longer bc A, B, C and D.
About his refusal to contribute, express gratitude (maybe he feels it? I have no idea) or honor you as a human being..... you can't control that and I know better than to try. THAT has to be worked out by Hol. Watching you set and hold boundaries will help Hol feel better about doing it herself, when the time comes, if the time comes. Just saying.... tools, in my family, are sacred. We return them in better shape than we borrowed them. Them's the rules. I've gotten several spontaneous genuine "thank you" hugs from Hol - but never once have those words left his mouth... like he's a "little prince" and just expects everything to flow to him from everyone.
Whatever he expects.... you can't know. What he's allowed to take and have, from you and your coffers, is another matter.
It's an understatement to say I don't like this aspect of him. And given that the rest of the time, he simply lurks around here like a ghost (except for working on HIS stuff) I truly don't know much else about him. But often our children hook up with people we don't like. I don't have to like him... but one thing you simply do NOT do, is make a personal demand from one's benefactor (his checkbook balance aside) in an attempt to protect your male ego territorial rights. I don't don't care WHY he's behaving as though he's experiencing a psychotic break with reality. I DO care he's doing it TO you, while leveraging Hol emotionally. His inability to reason or use logic is concerning, IMO. Especially, when you don't step up into that role of protector, provider and equal partner. I can see where B would threaten him that way. But then, most people would try to talk through those kinds of things and get to know - or at least SPEAK to a new person that's coming into your home, or at least where you're living, if you were concerned, right? So appears to be acting as a child acts..... asking his mother/protector/caretaker to his dirty work, while avoiding direct confrontation or accepting responsibility for his actions and words... for forcing Hol to make irrational demands on YOU. S can't see how......
how.....
what IS this request/demand/threat he's forcing Hol to make on his behalf...
of you and B?
It's something a child would do. I saw my brother do it when he was about 7 yo..... it's very childlike. I've seen no indication S is an adult, in any sense of the word. IF he's a 7yo child, and I suspect he is.... what does that mean? I haven't thought about it much, but food for thought.
Perhaps he'd respond positively to being spoken to like he's a child>?
B isn't a physically big guy. Divers are necessarily smaller to get into awkward places working on ships & subs. He also doesn't project a dominating, controlling or "bad person" menacing energy around him - in public or private. He's capable, yes. So this is all S's insecurities, and I haven't seen enough redeeming qualities to consider him a permanent "feature" here. Not with how close he is to ex-girlfriends. One of which, seems to have the same entitlement attitude he does. She was dropping broad hints to Hol during the last visit (oh, yes... I'm so intolerent & rigid, right? /read: sarcasm) about designing/building her own house out here. EXCUSE ME???? I don't think so.
OMG the entitlement craziness is catching!
It's not like I had much of a choice about S moving in here. Hol presented it to me; was dead set on it; and it would've definitely risked our relationship for me to say no. I think you did just the rigth thing, Amber. And I've been bringing my wishes & concerns to her about his behavior ever since. When I informed youngest dd I was going to bring my concerns TO her young bf, dd got much more invested in problem solving, which meant SHE was let down, over and over again, by the boy in very poignant, impossible to miss or ignore ways. I feel this was part of why she SAW who he is, and I was only saying out loud what I was GOING TO DO.... speak directly to bf, lay out my boundaries and consequences for failing to comply. DD really wanted to skip that, though there were times she seemed relieved she could step down... she was at the point she WANTED me to speak up.That has covered the continuum, of me asking her to ask him - since he doesn't talk to me or acknowledge me when I talk to him - to modify his habits/behavior... to my nuclear melt-down over the tools when I was trying to work. He really shouldn't have access or the right to use your tools, Amber.... IME, of course.
She is definitely squarely in the middle here. And I know the same things that irritate me are going to irritate her when they don't change. You betch'a. I know that he doesn't have clue one what the word commitment means. I don't care what he feels or thinks or knows. I care that Hol is drawn to men who criticize her, don't support her and can't enter into adult reciprocal relationships. I care about her seeing this, and deciding if that's what she wants to spend her time doing, or not. But it's like if she brought home a stray dog that had problematic behaviors that weren't able to be changed or commandable - and has the clear & obvious traits of turning on you. (And yes, that fact about not being able to change people when they tell you who they are, came out my mouth during the group meeting in front of him.) I am going out of my way to not make her misery any bigger than it is, and to remain non-confrontational or force her into any decisions. Just as long as you aren't allowing your boundaries to be crossed. It's right and good to allow Hol to make her decisions about her boundaries. It's not OK for her or S to decide what you have a rigth to protect, for yourself, or not, IME. YOu get to set those boundaries, regardless of any discomfort it creates for Hol or S. That's how it works. You show Hol how to DO it. Hol feels more pressure and has the chance to understand what she's up against more quickly IF you hold your boundaries for your own sake... nothing to do with making choices for Hol. Just you and your stuff.But I'm not letting her try to polish this turd and pretend she's happy when she's not. She brings up issues often, before I utter a word. And since I express emotions with my whole body - she clearly knows when I'm upset or angry.
Maybe try saying...
"let me know how that works out for you."
There's something chilling to FEEL lone is completely on their own, when in a bad situation. To be left to their own devices.... all the energy Mom puts into it.... withdrawn, sans emotion. Besides, Hol knows how you feel. Saying it or showing it again hasn't worked. Maybe pulling back entirely, in regard to her relationship to S, will help Hol reflect.
Until she makes the decision on her own, that this isn't what she wants to live with... I feel like my hands are tied. But then, I've also been running through a couple hard & fast "no's" that might be forthcoming after I've calmed down a little. As far as I'm concerned - if B's presence here, without any overt actions on his part - is so upsetting to S that he must leave - I don't really care. And if Hol is fool enough to chase after him, I won't try to stop her. That's the spirit, Amber.
Wish them well, then go back to your joy. Show Hol how it's done. This guy is a player, a taker, and he doesn't WANT to fit in and participate and shoulder the work here. And he doesn't care anywhere in his psyche want anyone else wants. That's only your problem with regard to his touching YOUR things.... with you giving or not giving him things and food out of your own pocket, and how he affects Hol.
Unfortunately, all you can do is what you're doing... keep your hands off the HOL/S relationship, and focus on you and your stuff. I say consider telling him he's not allowed to touch your tools. I'm n ot sure why this is a problem.
Not something I want around here. Period. My concern is Hol; and getting her the therapy she needs to stop repeating this pattern. Exactly.Her anxiety levels are off the charts; and so is her energy to "do". She is positively excited about moving into the hut and his resigned, OK, I'll help you do that - if we can do this tomorrow - and no, I require a nap or food, or a walk right now instead - is truly grating on her. When she wants to be heard & her feelings/thoughts/ideas validated she seeks me out... because he really only sees her as the object that provides for his needs/wants and just isn't there for her - or gets angry at her for disturbing him. You have great compassion for her and her plight. I hope you find ways to help Hol feel the weight of her situation.... so she doesn't feel you're carrying it with her. Let her have the entire weight of it, Amber.. if you can.
Hol's a smart girl. She cares what you think. It'possible she'll care more if she doesn't feel you're walking with her on this difficult path. You don't have to share your opinion one more time... she already knows. Lighter
I know what happens when resentments build up over a long time of trying to resolve a problem that only gets pushed off the table because it's not "convenient" at this very moment.
it's time for Hol to say, I'm not going to ask, you have to talk to mom.
But it doesn't mean that we can't both live our lives fully within the context of making the place work and be what it can be.
So, we'll see. When it comes time for Hol to fill her propane tank and figure out how to get internet down there... see if he's paying his share or not.Yup.
Yes, I worry about personalities being compatible here, but IT'S NOT MY JOB TO MAKE THEM GET ALONG. People can't act like grownups and behave - or "Happy Trails".... I got other things to think about, manage, organize and work on. It's not my job, and I'm not his mommy, to pick up after him or manage his emotions for him by making sure he's never ever uncomfortable about anything else going on here, at my - or B's - pleasure. End of negotiation. Don't like those terms? Well then, you know how to get back to your farm and I'm sure both ex GF's will welcome you and soothe your wounds.... NOT. LOLOL. You got that right, Amber.
This here "country" ain't a democracy even if I will listen to everyone from time to time. It's also not a dictatorship - because I have no interest in spending my time trying to manage other people. But I do have expectations and standards.
::reminded of the O-Ren Ishii's speech to the Tokyo crime bosses ::.
If anyone has anything to say... they should respectfully come to you and say it. You're open to discuss all topics EXCEPT for how you conduct your private life. Paraphrasing here.
::NOD::.
Lighter
I've been hiding my light under a bushel basket and all he did was take it off my head to get a better look at me. LOLOL. Or I flung it away and decided I didn't want it or need it anymore - especially taking the chance at possible new romance. I desperately wanted to STOP HIDING.
It's important to me that she and S are comfortable with my decision and give my judgement & B some trust - until there is reason to NOT TRUST. Hol is working on trying to calm S's unfounded anxiety down ...
whatever I end up telling him about this headspace I've been in, and the agony I've put myself through needlessly
This past year has been excruciating for me. I knew what I was signing up for, so I can't really complain can I?
I'm no longer gonna sit around & mope & wait for the phone to ring. Winter is coming. And with the cooler weather, I'm finally able to heave-to and get my stuff done. (http://I'm no longer gonna sit around & mope & wait for the phone to ring. Winter is coming. And with the cooler weather, I'm finally able to heave-to and get my stuff done.)
She just deleted a paragraph...sigh
I feel like I have a parrot on my shoulder. Arrrrggghhh!
not having acquired....
:rolling eyes so far I'm looking out my rear end:
Tupp, the duration of this situation is the crux of the issue. There is one imbalance that kinda snuck up on us, over the years. And then there's the fact that sales have slowed down a lot longer than we even knew there was a virus in the "wild". Yesterday was wild... to put it mildly.
But, before lunch I found 5 errors in the data in the accounting system... started the process to build B's shop... and helped out Hol with fancy dinner preps when I asked for her help filing my papers into some kind of order (it was done before she showed up... LOL) and regaling her with the details of the finances. I wrote notes on the reports, so if at some time in the future she's having to do the same thing, she has some explanations and the history.
Then, I started hosing off my porch before it turns chilly again.
Yeah, I went to bed early and if it weren't for Stinker... would've slept like a rock. Today is run to the stores, mail B's cookies, maybe stop at the permit office... and tomorrow run the other direction.
B says he will likely be here for the full blue moon on Halloween; and Hol is having some friends over for a bonfire, too. Some day, I'll clean house... LOL.
He seemed to anticipate pushback
I expected some kind of reassurance
I feel like we have to talk. He's indicated he has some things to say too. Nothing "bad"... but ....
I'm feeling confused, I think I know why - but I'll only know for sure when he's right here. I've already started my "preamble" to that conversation.
I'm excited to see him again; but I'm also holding back my feelings because I'm afraid of being disappointed again.
There are a LOT of simple joys in life that, IMO, are an antidote to the things outside of our own control.
Anyone else have the thought that sometimes we can become too attached to "looking at ourselves", "working on ourselves"... and it eventually becomes an escape? So that instead of DOING something different, or doing something ABOUT (changing) ourselves... we're just mesmerized and frozen in the self-care, self-analysis stage?
Skep, yes. Absolutely. For me it's been a bit like that thing when you decide you want to buy a certain kind of car - and then everywhere you go you see that make and model, even though you'd not really noticed them before. Counseling helped me more than I can ever put into words, I think, as have many self help type things, and all of you guys on here, but I think it also made me notice very little thing a person does and made me hyper aware of my own dysfunction/triggers/aspects of my personality that I'm not keen on. I had a thing in my head for a long time that I needed to become a perfectly functioning human but, of course, there's no such thing. I'm finding accepting my own faults and just letting them be harder than accepting other people's, which is odd. But yes, I think it is very possible to avoid action by over analysing and inadvertently paralysing ourselves in the process.
And yes to the child minding slightly older kids thing - I think a lot of families are struggling with those sorts of issues at the moment and paying someone else to sit with them for at least part of the day is probably cheaper than one parent having to give up work or cut their hours right down. It sounds like a good plan xx
I'm finding accepting my own faults and just letting them be harder than accepting other people's, which is odd.
DIRECT is more the word I'd use about me these days; I am directly my self and feel just as, if not more, safe this way than the overly guarded self I used to be.
3 early mornings this week, no downtime... move move move.
Back to Kitchen Wench mode (and we're all ready for a foot of snow - so now we probably won't get it; note to self: look for snowshoes). Just need to clean woodstove and split some kindling again.
Today's confection - Chocolate dipped coconut macaroons. I want to make a quick batch of fudge and dark chocolate sea salt caramels... then leave everything else to Christmas week. Pistachio shortbread, mixed nut chocolate covered toffee... etc. Whatever I feel up for. Of course, I wanted to make "everything" - including the homemade marshmallows. Backing off; spreading it out; it's gonna be a long winter.
One of my fav "rock & roll" Christmas tunes...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfY4b1NszpY
Yes, just getting up doing - what, at the root, was all stuff I WANTED done - helped me shake off the wobblies. And that's my motivation: it's stuff I want to do, really want to do -- whether anyone sees/acknowledges it or not -- because it's the kind thing, it's being neighborly, or spreading cheer & goodwill to all mankind... small gestures & smiles have a ripple effect... maybe especially when some people don't understand...
that is an effective teaching method.