Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Hopalong on August 07, 2020, 03:16:18 PM
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[the last line is priceless]
Q: Helpppp Meeeeee
Carolyn - I have read your columns and chats for several decades and I am 100% happier in my life having incorporated your advice. Thanks! I need some help. I moved back in with my 70ish year old parents, partly because I have a chronic illness and partly because they are 70ish and can't do everything by themselves. Ha, did you believe that? Cause I did! The truth is that my father does everything he is not supposed to do, all the time. This is after doctors' advice (plus some other peoples' advice) to stop, slow down, and ask for help. Guess who recently ripped his fingernail off and broke his finger putting his hand under the mower while it was running? Just for a second! Could have happened to anyone! Today the Tropical Storm is coming and suddenly he needs to clean every one of the gutters out before it gets here. WHY. This is after my mother and I spent a solid 30 mins convincing him not to mow the grass for various reasons. He agreed but then GUESS WHO HEARS THE LAWN MOWER RUNNING LATER IN THE DAY. Me. I hear the lawn mower running. WHO IS SUPERVISING HIM??? Not my mother since, as we've established, he doesn't listen to her either. Somehow I have adopted the worlds tallest toddler. There is a general idea in our house that, ha ha, this is how all men are in retirement and oh-well we just have to put up with that! Ha ha! They are all negligent and liars? I think we can expect better out of our retired men than this. I would be less frustrated if after these events that he creates for himself, he wasn't in pain. None of his body parts work correctly, which is a surprised to no one but him. If I remind him that cleaning all the gutters is going to make his shoulders hurt, like 3 weeks ago when all the the items in the attic had to be brought down and inspected - he says, Yup. As if, this is the price we pay to be human. He believes of this stuff to be NECESSARY and needs to be completed THIS SECOND. He is going to HURT himself. I do not believe this to be pandemic-related as he has never been able to sit still or relax. Is there someone we can get him to listen to and stop this madness? I'm so tired
A: Carolyn Hax
Why are you still trying?
Not a rhetorical question--I am genuinely curious. I can see it if his hurting himself would then present a serious problem for you and your mother, by, for example, demanding more care-giving than you're in a position to give, or creating severe financial hardship. But if he just wants to be busy and doesn't care about his body, and you want him to stay in one piece for your own reasons--because you want him around for a lot more years--then he wins that one. He gets to choose how to live his life, even if it means skydiving onto the roof to get to a hard-to-reach gutter.
Condensed version: If you can't stop his madness, then work on the madness of trying to stop him.
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Ah! That advice works for almost everything in my life.
I'm convinced I've chased people around trying to get them to do what I want because I want to spare myself the pain of their bad decisions. For all I've complained about my dysfunctional partners, there is a certain amount of dysfunction in me that keeps falling in that ditch.
The covid shelter in place has given me a lot of time to think about those dynamics, and although I was definitely making progress on stopping the cycles, I am clearer now than I've ever been of what they are. I really think we will do them over and over and over, if left to ourselves.
Although she moved in to "help" them, looks like they are doing okay!
CB
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When we need other people to be OK, for us to be OK....
that's our problem.
Thanks for sharing that, Hops. It's a really important message. I like seeing it from other people's perspectives. It helps drive it home.
Lighter
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[Tupp, thought you might relate. Tho' not in such extremity, I can too. xx Hops]
Dear Carolyn: Over the past year I was diagnosed and hospitalized for a serious and life-threatening illness. I have been struggling mightily since then with severe depression, survived a drug overdose, am in the process of getting divorced from my husband of many years, lost a cherished pet to illness, and have had to sell my house.
In the process, I found out that my social network was seriously lacking in the true-friendship department. Of the "close" friends I told about my illness, not a single one remained in contact with me throughout my ordeal, and some were downright rude and insensitive. All of them know not only about the hospitalization but also my pending divorce.
I am in the process of moving and trying to start fresh. I have no intention of sending these people my new contact details. Now some of them have begun to contact me — nearly a year after the fact — asking me how I'm doing and saying they're "concerned." One of the worst offenders left a message on my voice mail at work today saying she's sorry she hasn't been in contact (since last fall), but that a lot has been going on and that she was procrastinating (!). She informed me she'd email me "soon."
My instinct is simply not to respond. I don't even feel I can trust them enough to tell them how painful it was to realize I had no one there to help me. Do I have any obligation to formally cut things off with them?
— Looking for More Than Fairweather Friends
Looking for More Than Fairweather Friends: After years and years of advising people to talk (and talk), it’s refreshing to say: No. You have no obligation to respond, at least not to a voice mail so thoughtless and noncommittal.
If any of these friends proves to be remorseful and, maybe even more important, persistent, you might find it rewarding to respond; at worst you’ll get the satisfaction of being heard, and at best you’ll relaunch a good friendship. But short of that, please do give yourself the small satisfaction of washing your hands of them all.
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Oh Hops, thanks for thinking of me and yes, it does resonate, and quite a bit right now - I've literally just been sitting in the bath having a little weep as I thought about so many people who've just vanished and who, no matter how many times I explain my situation, son's situation, health problems and so on, seem to hear nothing and don't seem to be able to process that. I'm quite baffled by it. If I knew someone in that lady's situation I would, at the very least, ask if there was anything I could do and check in on her from time to time, and if I knew her well I would just take it upon myself to cut her grass, clean her house, get food shopping in for her and so on. I see that as normal? Yet so many find even sending a text message too much to manage. Yes, I think just moving on is the thing, I just find it hard. It makes me sad and more than that, it makes me feel anxious about ever making new friends as I find that sort of 'rejection when sick' very hard to cope with. Feels easier not to bother at times. Sheesh. Sorry to go on. Just feeling a bit down today, I think. Thank you for thinking of me, you're right, it did resonate, I know it does for you as well. I'm very grateful to have my lovely, supportive online friends on here :) xx
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Me too, Tupp. SOOO grateful.
I'm so very sorry you're feeling that abandonment, I do get it. Ouch.
I think for me it goes waaaay back, when things are not reciprocal.
It's very hard not to ask myself questions that probably stem from early on being unpopular. I am genuinely loved by a few friends now. But I still have early-imprint feelings echoing from when I felt more alone than words can describe.
My only fix for it now is to fear less, detach more, and spread around my sense of connection. The deep connections I have with two friends my age (one less so) are comforting, but not really as much as I'd like. But I'm still open to finding new ones.
I did a lay sermon once on loneliness (two, actually, 15 years apart). For me the key image was how vicious Western culture is toward people by describing them as "needy." I'm needy as heck. I NEEEEED people, connection, a sense of caring and being cared about. Particularly because I have no family in my life (like you). It just makes it more intense when other people seem to just open their hands and let you float away, not motivated enough to put in the effort to hold on to the thread. And you feel that the thread is YOU, so you feel abandoned over and over. Ouch ouch.
What I HAVE (finally, finally, finally) learned is that this is not about me or my worth or goodness or dignity or value--or theirs either. This is about our culture, how it's disconnected us from communities of belonging, or conducting friendships in more conscious, caring, reciprocal ways. I don't blame any individual any more for letting the thread that represents me float away. I feel sad about it from time to time, like you do, but I'm finding it's less often and less piercing.
I have come to believe that most people's minds are scattered, their hearts are anxious, their brains are tired, and their souls are weary. So the regular, satisfying, reassuring contacts that mean SO MUCH to needy-me, mean less to many others. I think most people are trudging in place right now, overwhelmed even if still functioning. And often the bright perky online reports of doings and such ring shallow (one reason I don't do social media). Not because activities or accomplishments ARE shallow--they're not!--but because I am more interested in the deep deep stuff when it's available. That's tiring for many people who find comfort in activity reports more than in navel-gazing (my major).
I can't imagine how hard it is for you to get your social needs met. And they ARE needs. There's nothing weird about weeping in the tub when you can't summon up a friend who cares enough to remember that visiting you in the evening when Son is preoccupied is for you the most meaningful connection possible. Especially while you could still drag chairs outside.
One question: Have you ever this directly and simply (shortly, briefly) stated that to friends? Such as (drumroll, script time):
Hi XXX, Would you be free to come visit me in an early evening, while Son is entertaining himself upstairs on his own? I need social contact and am realizing that meeting friends "out" is wearing me out because of how all the stimulation affects him. If you can do that, please suggest a few dates and let's pick one. If you can't these days, just say so--it helps to know either way. Thanks, Tupp
I have (belatedly) learned that it really IS okay to ask for what you want as long as you release the outcome. I have asked something similar very recently--sending out a direct message about how much I'd love to have patio or backyard visits from people I know and like. Results: Having broadcast that message to lots of friends/acquaintances, I've gotten replies (and visits) from a verrrry small handful. A couple neighbors, one close friend, and two out of the eight members in my Covenant Group (a group that meets twice a month and knows each other well).
And that's me, somebody who has worked intentionally and consistently to build relationships and community for years now. And have been friends with some of these people for ages. There's just a passivity there, that I'm accepting.
The conclusion I came to is:
--This is okay. It doesn't mean people dislike or reject me. Others' motivation to do anything meets a LOT of inertia for a host of reasons I do not need to know. That's been huge. I don't need to puzzle it out. I just need to keep living in as happy a way as I can and continue reaching out in a direct way, asking them (meaning the universe) for what I want, and releasing the outcome whatever it is.
And the reason it's really okay is that I accept that's how it often turns out, people are just doing their people thing, and I'm a unique people, and I'm just fine and lovely, and new people like me too so I can reach out to them with my direct message, and then I need to remember to reach out to another one now and then, and take walks, and refuse to draw any drastic conclusions from my current level of connectedness or its lack, because I am a fine and valuable and worthwhile human being with an intesting mind and good heart and quirky nature and great stories and I like other people generally and specifically and it's good to be alive and there are dogs.
That's about it and I doubt it will lift you out of the tub but I have complete faith that you will form friendships that are kind. No idea what shape they'll take but don't ever stop asking the universe for what you want. You'll maybe find that your "needy need" changes its shape too. Over time. Mine has modified and I'm grateful to recognize that I seldom feel pure anguish. Sad sometimes, hurt occasionally but more often "lightly" if that makes sense. I just expect less so I'm disappointed less.
One thing you CAN count on is that everything changes and flows and goes, and our individual sorrows do too.
You SO don't deserve loneliness, Tupp. I'm very very sorry you're experiencing it.
hugs and comfort and chamomile and pats on the back,
Hops
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Sometimes people who comment on a Hax column are amazing. Here's a reply to today's [LW = letter writer]:
My father and my sisters will be disappointed and may even disown me if I meet the other man. [A man her mother got involved with near the end of a miserable marriage to LW's angry father.]
LW, it might seem hard to believe, but there are worse things than being disapproved of and disowned. Being "owned" by family members based on their conditional approval of your false self comes to mind.
I get it. Authenticity is so hard. Authenticity that threatens to sever familial connections as the price of admission is so hard, it's a wonder anybody ever chooses it.
But people are remarkably brave when need be, and I hope you were brave too. Differentiating yourself from familial beliefs and being willing to shoulder disapproval for your own beliefs is very brave.
Many people, when given a choice between authenticity and connection, choose to sacrifice their authenticity to maintain connection. It's a particular kind of slow torture to abandon yourself and your beliefs to keep the approval of others.
Overall, I hope this settled and resolved with time, but I really hope you chose your own even-handed authenticity over threats to your sense of connection. It will have served you over the years, I hope you are at peace with how things played out.
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Thanks, Hops, that is an interesting way to look at it and, like you, the rejection goes back such a long way and really echoes for me when it happens over and over. I think part of it with me as well has been the number of people who vanished when I started putting in boundaries. Just saying to people that I didn't have time to talk right now and could we catch up at the weekend or that we weren't able to attend their party/wedding/house warming but that we'd love to meet up another time and people just seemed to fritter away. I think the sense of people not bothering with son really bothers me and I think part of that is tied up with my mum's outright refusal to accept his disabilities. Such a huge rejection of him as a person and it mirrored what she did to me as a child - you have to be a certain way or you won't be accepted. I suppose that stays with you.
Unfortunately the people I know who are close enough to visit in the evening have young children so it's not practical for them, plus I'm only seeing those who are also shielding so that cuts the numbers right down as well. I do think being tired (which I am today) makes me much more prone to feeling depressed and alone. That along with winter approaching is problematic, I think. I think I'm just going to have to focus very much on keeping healthy and busy wherever possible. I am going to see my sister next week which I'm looking forward to; she's been shielding all this time as well so we decided to do it before the kids go back to school in case the numbers rocket again. We're both in relatively low number areas so assuming that stays the same son and I can start taking bus rides to different places to go for walks and I think that will help a bit. Plus I can start getting on with my re-designing the house stuff from next month and that will be good as well. We'll all get through it, won't we :) x
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Hops,
I seriously thought I was reading a story about my own parents...except, there are no trees we are in a desert (so no gutters to clean)....but ya, my parents are in their 70's and this is their life. They live on a 20 acre ranch in the Middle of Nowhere.
I am always talking my husband into helping them (no they don't live with us- yet).
I do think it's a lot like taking care of a toddler. My mom is an N my Dad is just a flying monkey co-dep. Ever wonder what happens when the Narcissistic gets old???? I wonder this every day of my life.
I mean...who will SAVE THEM?? (not me not me not me..I hope)
bean
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Save yourself, Bean!
I walked right into the propellers (10 yrs f/t caring for Nmom).
I regret it genuinely in my lifetime "regrets" column.
BUT. On a spurchul inner-peace level, it took all 10 years to figure out many layers I didn't understand before...and ultimately (very ultimately) I realized that learning more about her childhood and my own personal work about compassion, etc. -- added up to me completely forgiving her. I found peace.
That has lasted, and I think in the long run (for me) -- it's been worth it. ALL our "unfinished business" was done with on my end (no full understanding from her of course, but I had also learned she couldn't help it). So I grieved while she was still alive for the mother she wasn't, accepted the mother she was, and was released.
YMMV!
hugs
Hops
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Just realized how cognitively dissonant what I wrote above was.
I both regret the decade caring for Nmom and don't regret it because at the end I had peace?
Pondered then realized...this is true.
I regret it.
I don't regret it.
And I imagine it'll always be that way.
WHO SEZ life isn't paradox?
hugs
Hops
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Just realized how cognitively dissonant what I wrote above was.
I both regret the decade caring for Nmom and don't regret it because at the end I had peace?
Pondered then realized...this is true.
I regret it.
I don't regret it.
And I imagine it'll always be that way.
WHO SEZ life isn't paradox?
hugs
Hops
It can be both, can't it? Although it does feel kind of weird. My mum doing the things she did meant I lost her, but it helped me grow. Also nearly killed me at times but I think I came through it a better person (certainly a self aware one!). So I get that you can both regret it and not regret it at the same time. I glad you got peace from it eventually, it probably would have been harder to come to terms with if you'd done all that and not found any kind of resolution for yourself xx
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I hear you, Tupp and Bean:
When a current friend or acquaintance unburdens himherself about worry for their aging parents and asks about my experience...I tell them both things. I regret it. Nmom's nature took a huge bite out of me and I believe the cumulative stress of caring for her has shortened my lifespan. I don't regret it. That is more my way of finding a jewel in a cow pat. Pretty stinky process, but the jewel is real.
It really was TERRIBLE stress (factoring in also working for Nboss and the rest of my toxic family situation). I got psychologically stronger in some ways because of it, because the last of my delusions (good intentions = ability to change others, as in getting love from a turnip OR rational information = persuasive to others, as in Nmom, these are your safest options) were ground away. I do have inner peace after it all but what a price. Living with stress so intense that you fear you'll die before the elder you are responsible for is an actual risk. Lots of people who aren't well off die taking care of elders.
Maybe I could have continued my growth and found more inner peace and a bit easier life anyway, without that torturous decade? I'll never know.
But the peace and sense of fully understanding her (and gradually, myself) were a big gift in my life. They're still here. The daughter part of my identity (like the mother part also became...my D also has wide streaks of Nism I stopped denying) had to be entirely rewritten. (A decade earlier, with my father's decline and dying at home, there was no inner conflict over the stresses of caregiving. That man was so selfless and cooperative there was no resentment or unfinished business whatsoever between us, only love. It was exhausting but refilled me simultaneously. I used to describe that time as "a dance of the soul.")
If they ask, I usually advise people NOT to take it on unless first, they have a loving and trusting relationship with the parent. [That was denied to you Tupp, not because you don't love but because you HAD to disconnect to survive for yourself and your son. I would have done the exact same thing because I believe you did not underestimate the further damage she could cause you. Hard as it's been, you MADE IT.] And secondly, if they have resources so they can shield themselves from the worst of the physical wear of it by hiring loads of help. That wasn't me, so back pain/damage was acute and became a chronic limitation that plays out now in my attempts to enjoy gardening or get through a day without pain. I picked her up over and over when she'd slip or fall. She was never hurt (heavy, well-padded woman) but my spine with already-herniated disks was wrecked. It would've been better to persuade Mom into assisted living instead of enabling her to continue in a big old house letting it go unpainted and minimally maintained because she blew her funds. My bad.
One last thing about the column LW, though, is that just as I benefitted in the very long run in an economic way (my small inheritance helped me afford most of my house, a wonderful thing since my career had evaporated) -- so has the LW. She moved home due to chronic illness, so despite her frustrations with her father, she had safe housing. I did too.
hugs
Hops
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Nodding all the way through, Hops. It kind of catches me between two places. I do feel that we (as a society) treat older people and unwell/disabled people terribly, expecting them to endure pain and loneliness that no-one should be expected to put up with. Without family and/or significant funds, as you say, it's very difficult to cope with difficult times in life. Add to that that you often find other family members happy to sit back and do nothing whilst one person gives up their job/social life/health to look after another, and then add in complex or abusive family relationships - it's a minefield, isn't it.
I do feel, having been through my own experiences, that people should look to the future from a relatively young age (60's, I reckon) and just have a think about whether there are things they could do to make life a bit easier in the future, should it become necessary. Downsizing a bit, moving to an area with more of the things they enjoy doing, moving somewhere with better public transport in case driving becomes a problem, and so on. I'm not suggesting that people should make radical changes the day they turn 60, but to just start thinking about options a, b and c in case they need to start making changes. Health doesn't always give you a good warning that it's on its way out so I think just knowing that you can sell your house and move somewhere without stairs or that you've got enough in the bank to pay for help if you need it can be a good thing.
Which brings me on to my mum, who has had multiple opportunities but really burnt every bridge. Five kids, all of whom lived nearby at one time. 10 grandchildren, and now 6 great grandchildren. A very comfortable income level - lots of equity in the house (which is far bigger than they've needed for many years). And lots of savings. Everyone avoids her; she's just made everyone's life a misery every chance she's had. They've apparently spent every penny on holidays and going out a lot and I get the 'spend your inheritance' idea, who doesn't want to have a good time? But I've also seen the reality of older people having to rely on council funded care and it's not pretty. I'd rather have a bit in the bank to pay someone than have to rely on the local authority, even if that only meant being able to afford nice ready meals and a new microwave. I have worried in the past that I would end up taking care of her. Even after everything she's done, I wouldn't feel comfortable thinking of her sitting in the house alone all day, unwell and unable to get out. But I think I've got good enough boundaries now to just arrange care from a distance and be content to know someone else is looking after her. I get what you say about regretting it and not regretting it at the same time. I feel I've learned a lot from everything we've been through, but I do wonder if I could have learned the same lessons in a less destructive way, as you mention. I would also advise people to think very carefully about devoting themselves to care for someone else full time. Even with your own child, my advice to anyone with young children would be to seriously think about other countries where they may be able to work and afford to pay someone else to come in. It's so expensive here that you need to earn a fortune to pay for help. It's just out of most people's pocketability and local authority provision is awful. I suspect most people would just think I'm a mad old bat :) C'est la vie. I'm glad at least you got your little house to yourself and that Nboss and Nbrother are no longer in the picture, either xx
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I hear you, Tupp. One issue with Nmom is that she never learned (or was taught) anything about how to manage her assets or plan for her future. She got the impression from my Dad that she could re-mortgage the house if she needed funds, and she'd done it three times by the time I moved back (because the nice, kind bankers were so helpful....grrrrr). She could have sold her house but the main reason she didn't is that she loved it and assumed she could stay there forever with somebody taking care of her (me), but had no savings at all for its maintenance. She really made some foolish decisions, like giving away my father's entire collection of antique maps because the university was going to make a big fuss over her, when she could have had them auctioned for several years' income. On my paltry salary (big chunks of it going to care for my D and by the end, for Nmom too) I couldn't have it painted, new roof, pther things needed, etc. It's on an upscale street but was disheveled by the time it sold. But it has beautiful bones and to my amazement pulled a pretty decent price just a couple years after the crash.
Pleases me now when I drive past to see how much the young couple have done to it, it looks elegant again. And there are children there, which makes me happy.
Tupp, I'm glad your mother has enough resources to survive. Since your sister is still in contact with her, can she be the one to arrange any care in the future so you don't need to?
(BTW, was really happy to read you had a pleasant visit, by choice, with her. Sounded like you really stayed in the present moment and looked at her without triggers, just observing her as a human being and interacting lightly, and allowing it to feel good.)
hugs
Hops
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I hear you, Tupp. One issue with Nmom is that she never learned (or was taught) anything about how to manage her assets or plan for her future. She got the impression from my Dad that she could re-mortgage the house if she needed funds, and she'd done it three times by the time I moved back (because the nice, kind bankers were so helpful....grrrrr). She could have sold her house but the main reason she didn't is that she loved it and assumed she could stay there forever with somebody taking care of her (me), but had no savings at all for its maintenance. She really made some foolish decisions, like giving away my father's entire collection of antique maps because the university was going to make a big fuss over her, when she could have had them auctioned for several years' income. On my paltry salary (big chunks of it going to care for my D and by the end, for Nmom too) I couldn't have it painted, new roof, pther things needed, etc. It's on an upscale street but was disheveled by the time it sold. But it has beautiful bones and to my amazement pulled a pretty decent price just a couple years after the crash.
Pleases me now when I drive past to see how much the young couple have done to it, it looks elegant again. And there are children there, which makes me happy.
Tupp, I'm glad your mother has enough resources to survive. Since your sister is still in contact with her, can she be the one to arrange any care in the future so you don't need to?
(BTW, was really happy to read you had a pleasant visit, by choice, with her. Sounded like you really stayed in the present moment and looked at her without triggers, just observing her as a human being and interacting lightly, and allowing it to feel good.)
hugs
Hops
Gosh, that sounds just like my mum, Hopsie, terrible financial planning. She's very tied up in spending equaling status and making her look good so always buys the very best of everything. Furniture is custom made, wall paper is hand painted, curtains and blinds are made to order. She's always spent a fortune and when we were kids had an extensive collection of fur coats (before everyone was anti fur) and so much jewellery as well. They've had inheritances from various people, all of which they've spent on travel to far flung locations and they've made a lot on property as well, which they've used to release equity on the house and keep spending. I'd never suggest anyone keeps all their money in the bank while they live on dry bread and water but I do think they'd have been smarter to sell the house and buy something smaller and, as you say, keep a bit back for maintenance and repairs. It's nice that your old home has a family with children in it now. It's nice to see homes being used as they were intended.
I could leave it to my sister to sort everything out if need be but then that would make me the one dumping all the work on one family member, which I wouldn't feel comfortable doing. We could do it between us. I'm good with the paperwork, I've been doing it for years, and I'm good with finding out who's supposed to be doing what, so I could do the 'behind the scenes' stuff (ie, no contact with mum) and she can do the bits that require face to face (or phone to phone). All hypothetical anyway, it might never be needed and if it is, she might tell both of us to p**s off anyway so it may never be an issue, but it's just something I've kind of made comfortable in my own head. I wouldn't have felt comfortable knowing she was suffering and no-one was doing anything so I needed to square it away in my own mind - just in case :) xx
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I could do the 'behind the scenes' stuff (ie, no contact with mum) and she can do the bits that require face to face (or phone to phone)
That sounds perfect. And now that your connection with your sister has become mature and peaceful, I'll bet you two could manage it like that.
I'm sure you'll be able to have that talk with her, some time when communication is going well (and before Mum's inevitable first aging emergency). Just the general outline that as you've handled such a load of paperwork and caregiving research, medical and bureaucratic, in raising son...when the time comes that Mum needs that, you'd be ready to handle that part of her care. With the understanding that you won't be having any personal contact. And would she like to have that agreement with you ahead of time?
Maybe just that baby step of planting the idea, but not going into exhaustive detail about scenarios yet.
hugs
Hops
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I don't think it's something I'd discuss with her, Hopsie. I've kind of got the picture in my own mind but I might feel differently if/when the time comes, or she may well do more hideous things between now and then that mean I'll leave her sitting in a wheelchair in the street rather than help her out. I think I just like to have the notion in my head of 'what if' but I don't know that would mean it would actually happen in practise. My sister has a lot of health problems and is semi disabled herself now, along with four kids so she might end up needing care before my mum does, it's not an impossibility really. I've just been aware for a long time that I wouldn't feel comfortable knowing my mum was completely alone and in need of care and not doing anything about that, whilst also not wanting to be terribly involved because of what she's like. And all may be immaterial overall. I've been amazed for a long time now that she's still relatively healthy given the amount she's been drinking for the last forty years so there may well come a time where she just goes very quickly and suddenly. My friend recently lost her sister to drink related health problems; she'd seen her on the Saturday and they'd had lunch together. She was absolutely fine and my friend remarked that she looked better than she had for a long time. She got a call on Sunday morning from a neighbour who couldn't rouse her (the cat was locked out and had been miaowing outside for ages) and they found her dead in her bed. Something just conked out in the night. The doctor reckoned she wouldn't have felt a thing. I think that can be a merciful ending in many ways xx
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there may well come a time where she just goes very quickly and suddenly
That does sound very likely (and merciful). I hope she passes that way, and in honesty, more for your sake than hers. Your conscience about her is moving, because that says so much about who you are. And yes, every human deserves compassion. But it's equally wonderful that you're not going to lose yourself in the process (I hope not with your sister's future needs, either--you have a very full plate managing yourself and son.)
It's exactly what happened to my long-alcoholic friend Gennulman, who died a month back.
I'm glad you're not worrying about this TOO much. (I'll shove her wheelchair into the street for you if you need a hand.)
hugs
Hops
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"I'll shove her wheelchair into the street for you if you need a hand"
That made me laugh, Hops :) I know it sounds a bit 'hippy', but I feel like I've just healed. My own stuff - childhood, abuse, what she did when my son was born, all of those things - it just feels okay now. And it doesn't feel okay like I think it was alright that she did it, it feels okay that it happened and I got through it and I'm alright again now. I've found this last few weeks/months that when I think of her, I do think of her with compassion. I can see her as a frightened little girl that no-one cared about, growing up in a world where women were expected to marry and have children, and where the responsibility of that marriage being a good one relied on the woman putting up with whatever her husband did. I do know how terribly acutely she felt shame when my dad lost his business and they lost their home. From her to go from woman about town to having to clean people's houses for a living was a huge drop in status in her mind and I know how badly that affected her. Add in the multiple miscarriages, many years of undiagnosed post natal depression, being widowed at a young age, my horrible, brutish step-father and the decades of drink (along with possibly undiagnosed autism as well) and yeah, I can see things have been tough, and also see that things were tough for me. I wasn't able to hold both things before; I felt like acknowledging her meant having to drop my own needs. I think that's the bit that's changed. It doesn't feel as emotionally charged as it used to so I can see how things were for her at the same time as seeing how things were for me. It doesn't have to be one or the other. And I do feel confident enough in my own boundary setting abilities now not to get enmeshed with anyone else's care requirements other than my own and son's - I can offer friendship and companionship at times, there are some aspects involving paperwork or just knowing who to contact for advice that I can help with if need be, I can send nice notes and care packages if that's appropriate - but I don't feel likely to fall into that pit of neglecting myself again. Perhaps just enough time has passed now. The fear I used to have whenever I thought of her just seems to have gone? And with him, to a large extent as well - not that I feel compassion for him, he can rot in his own bed as far as I'm concerned but that huge brute of a man that I always see in my mind's eye standing in my bedroom door just looks like a shriveled up old man now. Even he doesn't feel as scary as he used to. Progress, I guess? xx
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This is one of the most astonishing things I've ever read by you, Tupp.
In its depth and breadth it is just amazing, extraordinary. Starting where
you did? Wow.
The amount and depth of thinking you have done (finally given a few moments'
peace in which to do it) has paid off in truly sound healing. You'll still feel a twinge
or stab now and then, but you are no longer drowning. You are swimming.
I really am awed, and so very glad to read this.
Holding yourself open to the possibility of good things happening?
You are the good thing.
Mad respect,
Hops
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Q: Optimist gone bad
Carolyn - I am having such a hard time staying positive. The virus, the politics, the climate change, a hero and a protector (RBG) passing. I've always had a relentlessly positive attitude. Even when I was going through tough times, I'd wake up and see the sun shining and think "this isn't so bad, it's new day." All of that wind is out of my sails. I feel so hopeless about the state of the world, and also apathetic about my day to day life, work, relationships, etc. Like is justice a thing anymore? Is truth? If it's not, what's the point? What do you do to get through times when you feel this way?
A: Carolyn Hax
I think a lot of self-described optimists just woke up to realize they're just weekend warriors who'd thought they were Olympians.
It's okay. Go ahead and feel defeated for a while and go fetal. Maybe choose better snack foods than I did.
Then get back to whatever it is you feel you were put here to get back to. This can be a small thing or something ambitious enough to qualify as life's work. Up to you.
But you might want to start with your visualizations. They, too, can be small--where you think of one thing you can do to make your day better, one beautiful thing. Can you create something, can you clean something, can you write a check to someone, can you go help someone.
Or, it can be as big as the universe. Can you summon a mental image of the earth as viewed from space? And then ask yourself to put your questions in that perspective? Can you, similarly, call up images from difficult times in history? We humans have served up no shortage of horrific-case scenarios to lean on when we think we can't do this, to remind us that people get through stuff we get nightmares just imagining. (Reminder, I'm available for birthday parties!)
Noodle around with these visuals to see if something gives you a sense of relief, or perspective, or motivation. Any one of them is a start. If that leaves you empty, then I urge fiction (whatever absorbs you), rest, try again. It may seem like unproductive escapism and a dereliction of citizen duty, but fiction is a form of empathy training. It's productive, heart-opening, mind-broadening mental rest.
Another restorative escape, or way to regroup, is self-care. Assess, then give yourself what you need.
There will be plenty to do when you're ready. If mindful rest isn't enough to lift you back up, then two more suggestions--talk to your doctor (depression assessment), and narrow your scope. You're thinking national stuff when you have only local, one-human-scale reach, and it's a recipe for helplessness for all but the very very few people who have big power. So, bring your power to bear locally, where you can see a difference. Millions of you doing that can have a history-making effect--but only if each one of you chooses to do it.
— SEP 25, 2020 2:21 EDT
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Timely, Hops, and good advice in the response, too (says the woman who's just started her morning with an hour in bed reading her 900plus page hard back blockbuster :) ).
I've not personally been a relentlessly optomistic person but I always used to feel that we were working towards solving problems - the various 'isms', climate change, global peace and so on. I used to feel that was the way we were heading and that things would get better, personally and on a wider level. I don't feel like that now and haven't for a good few years. The ease with which people have gone back to not only accepting but encouraging the various 'isms', along with the endless demand for consumer goods shipped from anywhere in the world, regardless of working conditions or sustainability and the way in which this pandemic is being handled - those things have been a bit of a nail in the coffin for me. It's true that you can only focus on your little bit for now - just hunker down, look after yourself as best you can and read a lot :) Lol xx
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Whew boy, Tupp and Hops:
What an amazing thread. I'm so glad to do some catching up.
Oh, to be released from the scary darkness, Tupp. To step into the sunny present and fear no more.
To feel the past recede and take its rightful place. The old man in the doorway isn't in your face anymore.....there's distance now. What a huge shift in your universe, ((Tupp!))
Lighter
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Nice comment from a man who's a regular on the Carolyn Hax (CH) column:
"
1 day ago
(Edited)
I agree with CH; "Unsure in Wisconsin" lives in a dark place of anger and resentment, Having been there myself, I know it to be corrosive place where pain and embitterment exists in our/my heart.
It may be worthwhile to define embitterment:
Embitterment is a persistent negative feeling in reaction to common negative life events, and is a reactive emotion towards Injustice, Insult or Breach of Trust. Embitterment is a gnawing feeling and has the tendency not to stop.
And more of us suffer from that than we might want to admit; it may well lurk in our own underworld.
1 day ago
(Edited)
What to do.
FWIW, I try to be in the moment when embitterment presents itself, when I've experienced Injustice or Insult or a Breach of Trust -- and anger and resentment are boiling up.
I try to feel my raw pain, fully. I try to stay with my hostile feelings and let it speak to me, which it will do. I mean many lives have been destroyed by not addressing our intense negative feelings. Thus it behooves us to take responsibility for these powerful destructive emotions.
Rather than try to address these corrosive feeling cognitively -- that is to say, with my brain, my thoughts -- I try to stay within my emotional experience, my raw feelings.
1 day ago
Beneath that anger is a wounded child who wanted to be loved and accepted but was instead rejected, mocked, and ridiculed. So that child withdrew and tried to protect itself from that awful situation by presenting a brave front.
An endemic form of that occurs in schools and it's called bullying.
But we are an adult now and that is key. The adult in me can mourn what happened to the child in me. The adult in me can understand the trauma that the child in me suffered for many years but was never acknowledged nor comforted nor protected.
But you/I can. So now we have a path forward, a path that can heal after all these years.
I wish you well."
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Q: Glad I'm not famous
I need advice or be directed to resources on how to get over my own perceived mistakes and not worry about what people think of me. It's funny, because I'm a journalist (print) and on a daily basis my work is being edited and critiqued. That doesn't bother me. I appreciate a good editor/copy editor. But say I accidentally cut someone off on the road and I get honked at. I say something in person or social media that someone takes the wrong way and is offended or hurt. I'll ruminate about these things. I get anxiety. I often want to fix the record about my character and the type of person I am. I guess, it comes down to I really don't want people to be angry with me. But no one is perfect. In fact, I rarely get upset at others because I realize that most people aren't perfect. But I always worry what others think of me and my character.
A: Carolyn Hax
This could be about your wiring--I know there's a cohort of people who dwell on stuff like this, perseverate, replay conversations for days while cringing. (I'm one of them.) It's a tendency that shows up to varying degrees with anxiety/OCD, ADHD, autism, dementia ... maybe others, these are just off the top of my head, though like anything else there's no doubt a sub-clinical level of this that isn't part of any specific condition. Behaviors are less like on-off switches, more like dimmers.
Anyway. If it's really getting to you, then talk to your regular doctor (call) about relevant evaluations, or just try counseling. In the meantime, too, you can treat it as you would anxiety and adopt the various non-medical interventions that tend to work for it, like exercise, meditation, absorbing hobbies, etc. If that works, then you can skip the medical intervention part.
— OCT 23, 2020 1:41 EDT
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Q: Anxiety Resources
Could you and/or the chatters share some anxiety resources? I've reached out to multiple therapists but they all have waiting lists right now and making it through the next week is going to be a challenge.
A: Carolyn Hax
I'm signing off soon so I'll encourage chatters to address this in the comments, when they're open (usually 5 to 15 minutes after I finish). Or on FB, which might have a couple of commenters already.
Here are my suggestions, all under the umbrella of Really Small Steps:
-Take care of your body. Eat moderately, exercise regularly, get your rest.
-Take care of your soul. Streamline as much as you can to keep positive people and experiences close to you and draining people and experiences away, at least for the time being.
-Occupy your mind. Idle thoughts are the raw material of anxiety. If you have reliable ways to stay occupied--hobbies, work, chores, friends, causes, music/books/TV, meditation, faith--then now's the time to line them up in your schedule from end to end.
-Believe in perspective, even if you can't quite have it right now: Bad times pass, bad feelings pass, change is constant. You don't need to Solve Everything--you just need to get through the worst feelings to the place of the not-as-bad feelings, where you will have many more resources available to be proactive.
— OCT 30, 2020 2:20 EDT
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[Dunno that this applies to anyone here; just really love the succinct wisdom.]
Dear Carolyn: Every so often, my mom calls me to complain about something my stepdad has done, and I don't know how to handle it. She married him about five years ago, once my youngest sibling was out of the house, and all of us kids objected silently because he is such an obvious jerk and treats her like a servant. I also expressed concerns at the time but did not press it much, she's an adult.
But now I don't know how I'm supposed to handle her complaining about a jerk acting like a jerk.
— Anonymous
Anonymous: You handle it the way you chose to from the start, by recognizing she is an adult who can manage her own life.
Fortunately, you can do this in a more active, supportive — and pointed — way than just listening while she complains.
It’s also easy to adopt, since it consists entirely of responding to her complaints with sympathy plus a question:
“Hmm, that doesn’t sound good — how do you feel about it?”
“He said that, really? What are you going to do?”
“Huh, I can see why you’re upset. Any idea how you’ll deal with this if it happens again?”
If things escalate: “Oh, no. Are you okay with this?”
And, with care, since the tone needs to be loving, not shaming: “Why do you put up with this?”
It is hard to watch someone make choices you wouldn’t make in their position, when they clearly aren’t happy with the results themselves. It’s hard to resist the impulse to grab the reins. A carefully posed, leading question is one way to help someone that leaves the reins in the right person’s hands. Think of it as turning on a light above the passageway out.
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Hi Hops.....
Can I give you a great big hug.............(((((((((((((((((((((Hug))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Wish I could do it in person........
My mother would ask everyone and anyone to do things.......for her and she got away with it??
Well she was good......the old lady who lived and worked full time until age 100.
I moved to the west coast from New Jersey because all she was doing was demanding rides to and from a shrine......where she thought she was the cats meow.......
Well the nuns and priest were taking the money she got selling used jewelry and etc etc each week end for over 42 years......she had little to do with me or my kids......
But my husband and I were good for something like driving her for over 35 years there
My therapist said the other day you need a voice........well I didn't have a voice because I was so controlled by the my asshole mother.......
Now that she died at age 100 and that was 8 years ago and now my own sweet husband is dead
at age 78......nothing I realize I can do about that
But I know I'm late having a voice but I will say to her now.......leave me alone....I never ever want to see you again......but I am sure looking forward to seeing my husband Bill again.....it took me a long time to learn a lesson......but I got it now.......
Like you I need some good and kind friends too......
I hope things will improve for you.......
Love, Bettyanne
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I'll take that hug, Bettyanne!
I think it's NEVER too late to find your voice and begin speaking your truth.
And here you are doing just that. Bravo.
I think one reason I enjoy good advice columns is that they're like having a wise mother's guidance. One who really sees you as an individual and genuinely wants the best for you.
We take it where we can find it, and that's okay. Never too late.
Hugs
Hops
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This wasn't Hax herself, but a commenter. It struck me as SO pithy and perfect. (Suited my nature, anyway.) Can't shake it, wonder how many layers this thought might unearth, especially in women's lives....
Traditions are peer pressure from dead people.
Enjoy, ? , ymmv--
Hops
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Hops:
The truth is....I'm concerned about how much "tradition" I'll find obviously wrong and unworthy in my life once I get more proficient with my spotlight.
It feels like so many things will fall away. I'm afraid I'll feel regret and relief in equal measure when it happens.
Lighter
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A commenter in response to Hax's advice to someone who can't love herself, which advice was based on doing good for others as a way to boost self-love....I really like the commenter's T's idea and the commenter's wisdom more than Hax's this time.
LW, I don't know your story, but I was unloved as a child and blamed myself, deeply internalized that I was unloved because I was unloveable. My therapist had me retrieve a photo of myself as a small child, 2 or 3, and put it as the primary screen on my phone. Every time I took out my phone and saw that little girl I would think: she deserves happiness, she deserves love, she deserves protection. Because she did deserve all those things. Then I would remind myself that the little girl was me, that I still deserve those things. It really helped to go through that ritual many times a day for months and months to internalize that I am no different from any other person, I deserve love and respect, that the fault was not mine but my parents.
Hope this helps. Doing good deeds, as Hax suggests, is all well and good, but it reinforces that idea that you are not worthy unless you make yourself so. We are all worthy of love, we don't have to earn that through good deeds.
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And more (commenters, same column--which really hit a lot of people):
LW, here's something that may help you. Hope so!
In an article I read, a beautiful, intelligent, kind celebrity said she had been brought up to think badly of herself, but is slowly turning that around into healthy self-esteem. To do so, every day she looks at herself in the mirror, right into her eyes, and says, "I love you and I approve of you." When she first started, the words felt false to her. But slowly, she has come to believe them.
I decided to try this myself. When I got to "I approve of you," I thought, no I don't. This startled me, because I've worked hard and relatively successfully to get my act together and I'm a pretty nice person: logically, I thought, I should approve of myself. But apparently I didn't. I grew up being criticized constantly. Apparently I still thought, no matter what I do, I don't deserve approval.
I repeated this experiment every day, saying the whole phrase a few times as I looked into my own eyes. In just a few days, I started to believe the words. Now, I'm convinced. I'm not talking about saying "I'm fantastic," or "I'm gorgeous." I haven't tried that, but based on the other comments here, that doesn't work. This is about an appropriate level of basic human self-esteem. I suppose if you're is really being a jerk and know it, this might not work, but if you're trying as best you can to be a good person, despite the occasional slipup, you deserve to love and approve of yourself, whether or not people in your past taught you that.
Give it a try every day for a few minutes. Good luck!
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I agree with this. I am a fan of doing shadow work to find acceptance and love for the darker parts of ourselves that we reject.
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I have found a small trick that I got from tattooing. There have been pieces where it felt like the artist was just going over and over and over the exact same spot... but when I looked, I could see that she was really inking all over the place, and that what I was feeling was not the same as what was happening. So I use that to remind myself that my perceptions are not necessarily accurate. That way, I can practice distinguishing "IT SURE FEELS... " from "BUT I KNOW... "
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Love this formula (have seen it before) from a commenter:
Happiness = Reality - Expectations
[True, if one has enough money not to worry. That's a big exception but all in all, even in economical stress, the formula still can help, kwim?]
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OMG...the clarity, the clarity! (Fan-girling away....)
And speaking of assertiveness....!
Dear Carolyn: I haven’t been handling the big reopening well at all so far. My in-laws planned no fewer than five gatherings in a week’s time as soon as everyone was vaccinated, and even pre-pandemic I found them to be overbearing and limited my time with them. I managed only two out of those five gatherings, politely declined the rest, and was met with a guilt-trippy, “What a shame, we haven’t seen you in over a year.”
My husband supports my need to pass, but I still feel bad. How do we set good boundaries these days when people are trying to make up for lost time?
— Still Isolating From In-Laws
Still Isolating From In-Laws: HAX: You mean, how do you do exactly what you already did?
You set the boundary. You held the boundary.
What you didn't do, or haven't learned to do yet, is feel utterly entitled to set and hold the boundary: to feel so certain that it's your place to decide how to allot your time — not [...] anyone else's — that you're impervious to guilt.
Guilt is a transaction. People can schedule all the guilt trips for you they please, but you're the one who chooses whether to go on them. You can also choose not to, always — not to feel guilt, not to agree you have anything to feel guilty about, not to change your approach under anyone else's pressure.
If you believe joining two gatherings of five is appropriate, then the only thing you need to do now is stand up for your own beliefs — against the pressure you’re putting on yourself.
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[This is about someone who left an abusive partner. I think it would apply also to adult children of Ns. I loved Hax's answer about nature and the self....Hugs--Hops]
Dear Carolyn: In public, my ex is charming, outgoing, remembers everyone’s name and in general shows a perfect-looking face to the world. At home, Ex was angry, controlling and abusive. The red flags were there from the day we met, but I was young and didn’t know then what I do now. Ex and I have school-age children and share custody, which is the norm in our state. Teaching your kids how to lie so that the other parent doesn’t get mad at them is not a good place to be. And, yes, the kids and I are all in therapy.
We were together for 20 years. I can see now that my sense of self was broken down bit by bit. All our friends, where and how we lived, how I dressed, what we ate, where and when we traveled, even how I packed a bag, were dictated by my ex. I knew this wasn’t normal, but felt powerless. Ex’s way was the only way and my opinion counted for zero.
I still feel like a zero. I lost myself and don’t know where to begin. We are civil in public, but I know Ex doesn’t respect me as a person. And I now know every choice, gift, trip in our relationship was about whether it made Ex look like a great partner to the outside world.
Can you recommend how to begin the process of being myself in the world? My therapist says I need to take better care of myself to model good behavior for my children. I’m working on it, but feel more than a little lost and overwhelmed.
— Zero
Zero: Understandably so. Managing a breakup is hard, with kids it’s harder and with a history of abuse, it can be terrifying. And when you’re denied the use of your decision-making muscles for 20 years, it makes sense their atrophy would feel complete.
But it's not complete. You're out of this destructive relationship. You're getting help for your kids. You're in a therapist's office working to understand and overcome. You're writing to me, aching to have yourself back.
These are not nothing. I would argue they are everything — specifically, the version that comes to mind when you see a flower pushing up through a crack in the sidewalk.
We see it over and over, that nature will not be denied.
So, I’ll make you a deal. You’re a newly single parent with much to do already. So much. Your therapist wants you to add self-care to your routine, rightly, so please make even the smallest adjustments in that direction.
But for the “process of being myself in the world,” let’s add exactly nothing to your to-do list. Just trust yourself instead. Trust your nature to figure out it’s finally getting some sunlight and it’s safe to grow. With struggles and setbacks, but still.
If you get through your family's transition phase, get into a new routine, heal a bit, and still feel you're not progressing personally, then, absolutely, start taking deliberate steps toward self-discovery and restoration. Write back so we can discuss that.
But for now, define yourself as someone who knows how to give a person a break when she needs one, and tell yourself: Nature’s got this. Your self knows how to grow back.
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From a commenter:
“The first noble truth of the Buddha is that when we feel suffering, it doesn’t mean that something is wrong. What a relief. Someone finally told the truth. Suffering is part of life, and we don’t have to feel it’s happening because we personally made the wrong move.”
--Pema Chodron
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Suffering can also mean the end of something which isn't working in our lives. It can be the place where better things begin.
Thanks for starting this thread Hops.
Lighter
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When Hax is good, she's great, imo.
I loved this, too:
Your self knows how to grow back.
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I loooove the way Carolyn Hax writes about boundaries. This is from today:
Dear Carolyn: My mom justifies nosiness and a lack of boundaries with an exasperated, “It’s just conversation!” and treats me as if I’m the unreasonable one for not telling her every little detail of every little thing. For example, my finances, why I didn’t answer the phone when she called, etc. And I get very defensive when my boundaries are being crossed. How do I learn to set boundaries calmly and actually get her to respect them?
Carolyn Hax:
It's not your job or your boundaries' job to "get" your mother to do anything. Your job is to decide which of your mother's behaviors you won't accept, determine what consequences you will attach when she behaves that way, and put these into practice when you interact with her.
Please note, all of these things are in *your* control. What your mother does is not in your control.
So, in practice, here's how that might look:
You decide you will not accept your mother's attempts to pry into your finances or phone-picking-up habits.
You also decide that when she does pry, the consequence will be that she loses the pleasure of your company because you will end that particular conversation with her. First you will change the subject to one you're willing to discuss with her, and if she keep pressing, then you will exit altogether (hang up, leave room, ignore text/email, etc.).
Then next time she pries, you say, "Mom, I'm not getting into that with you. So, how did that thing at work turn out?"
She cannot pry out information you don't give her. She cannot keep prying if you have hung up the phone. YOU respect your boundaries. What she does is her problem.
See? It's actually very elegant, if sometimes contentious at first, since people in your mom's position can get upset when their usual inputs don't yield the usual outputs. But, same story--she can be upset on her time. Unless she has you lashed to the wall of her kitchen, you don't have to listen to it.
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Another new gem.
Dear Carolyn:
My soon-to-be-ex husband spent the better part of the last year lying to me about everything, from when he was going to the grocery store to having an affair. He recently confessed that he felt the need to lie in order to maintain his independence. To make it (MUCH) worse, he then gaslighted me all the time. When I would catch him in a lie, he would blame me for being jealous or controlling or imagining things. His behavior crushed my spirit, my self-confidence, and our marriage.
With several months of hindsight, he's contacted me claiming that he realizes how terrible his behavior was and how awful he feels for treating me so badly. He wants to get together, claiming he wants to apologize in hopes that we could become friends, because he misses me.
He hurt me to the core. I've spent months in therapy dealing with the PTSD of his emotional abuse. And I am in a much better place. He's pleading for an opportunity to show me that he's processed all his emotions and is ready to make amends. I'm skeptical, I'm protective of the recovery I've made. For a few days, I fantasized that he might be SO genuine that we could repair and renew our relationship. Now I realize that's my codependent nature wanting to save a relationship at any cost.
I don't want to hate him for the rest of my life, but I also realize his track record is that of a liar and manipulator. How do I decide whether to risk my recovery in hopes of receiving both validation of my pain and possibly regret/remorse that might grease my forgiveness? Or whether to let him fester in the mess he has made and just keep moving on in the right direction, alone, away from his abuse, towards my self-confidence and independence?
Carolyn Hax:
If he were genuinely interested in your well-being, thens giv he would offer an apology and amends that require nothing of you. Zero. In other words, you would already have the apology and amends from him in a form that didn't require you to respond in any way, because it was for you entirely.
Instead, he wants something out of it for himself--your forgiveness, your presence, your attention, your gift of his get-out-of-abuse-jail-free card. This is a transaction for *his* benefit, not for yours, meaning he is not recovered either miraculously or through hard work. He has just transitioned his manipulation to a new phase, the I love you I need you I blew it I was so so very wrong come back so I can resume using you to make myself feel better phase.
So [small threaded hardware] that. Let his invitation to hear his apology stand as his apology. "Got it, thanks, glad you're doing better, and no, I won't meet you. If you need me, please contact me through [attorney's name]."
You don't have to "hate him for the rest of my life." Just see him as a liar and manipulator and choose to live your life hereafter in a place beyond his reach. You've earned it.
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That was a great Carolyn Hax moment, Hops!
Thanks for that.
Lighter
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And when someone writes in with a particularly egregious dilemma (major insensitivity or boundary-bashing)...she's been known to respond:
"Holy crap in a casserole!"
I so prefer that to the Miss Mannersez of the woild. :)
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LOL... I prefer Caroly's style too: )
Light