Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board

Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => What Helps? => Topic started by: Anastasia on November 24, 2003, 02:46:07 PM

Title: Treat the "child" in you...my story
Post by: Anastasia on November 24, 2003, 02:46:07 PM
As a product of a narcissistic mother who I am having to relearn to deal with all over again (I was in another part of the country for 20 years), I can only be happy over not raising my child around this atmosphere--and for trying to heal MYSELF by treating my child with all the logic and love that I missed; but, then again, I loved being a parent vs. my mother's not wanting children at all.  I must have done an okay job as my child really likes to be around me once or twice a week (he's still single...we shall  see how this turns when he meets Ms. Right..haha!) and, IMHO, if any child wants to be with their parent after 21 when he does not have to...you must have done something right (unless the child is totally codependent which mine is not).  Well, that's my logic, anyway.
Regardless,  this board is so needed and I am so delighted over finding it!
Thank you for starting this!
Anyway, my advice on how to heal yourself as best you can:  if you have kids, grandkids, of your own--do all for them that wasn't done for you in the emotional sense (talk to them, give them the wisdom of your years and teach them useable tools to enable them to thrive and succeed in their own lives).  Just my 2 cents worth. :)
Title: Treat the "child" in you...my story
Post by: I_am_mine on November 26, 2003, 06:31:52 PM
Some very good advice, and I know that's something I have to work on, and keep working on.  My Ndad...well, it's not that he didn't want children, he just wanted carbon copies of himself, and since he got 2 girls (MAJOR disappointment), he still tried his best to beat us into submission.  Not physically "beat" (I do have that to be thankful for) - but the words...the guilt...the constant "YOU are defective or you'd be just like me"...48 years of that...mom, who was our buffer and peacemaker (how did she do it for 54 years?) passed away last July, and Ndad was just diagnosed with Alzheimers...so guess who his caretakers are?  My sis and me!

Trying to make peace with the fact that we have to do the best we can for him, but...it's so hard not to think "Mister N, you used mom like a slave, you tried your damndest to ruin my sis and me - NOW we should take care of you like a cherished father?  Maybe if you'd cherished us, we'd have had a better model for how to help you now."

Sometimes I catch myself in repeating my Ndad's behavior with my kids...and I just want to stick my head in the oven!  But the more I learn about Ndad, the more I learn about myself (which is even more important), the more I see the truth for what it REALLY is, not Ndad's version - the better it gets.  



Anastasia, I too love being a mother - the best thing that ever happened to me.  I'm proud of my boys, I love them like I've never loved another human being...that's what makes me keep working on this.

Thanks for your thoughtful words - you just reminded me to take the blinders off, and see REAL things, and learn to react in a healthy way.

Thanks - you sound like the kind of parent I wish my Ndad could have been.

Title: Nice words from you BUT all this has come at a huge price:
Post by: Anastasia on November 27, 2003, 10:27:35 AM
Title: Treat the "child" in you...my story
Post by: Anonymous on November 28, 2003, 08:15:32 PM

I read this and I could not help but think of your post.  

The story of Narcissus and Echo is one of self-love that precludes the ability to see, hear, or react to the needs of another.Without too much of a stretch, it stands as a poignant allegory for the interactive relationships of the narcissistic family.
In a healthy situation, parents accept responsibility for meeting a variety of their children's needs; they get their own needs met by themselves, each other, and/or other suitable adults...

In a narcissistic family the responsibility for the meeting of emotional needs.. shifts to the child. The child becomes inappropriately responsible for meeting parental needs and in so doing is deprived of the opportunities for necessary experimentation and growth.

It makes me sad to think that they can not love anything deeply enough to work on theirselves.  If they would have taken the time spent demeaning and condemning  their kids, applied that time to working on theirself, everyone could have benefited by it.  The children would have the jump in life they so deserved and the parents would have enjoyed their kids instead of feeling they were a nuisance.  Everyone loses don't they?  

Title: With narcissism at the core--yes, everybody loses!
Post by: Anastasia on November 29, 2003, 09:21:59 AM
However, what can you do when the Narcissist won't acknowledge the problem?  My mother has been self-conscious and in pain for her entire life, but won't take a minute to work on it.  I never understood it, myself.
I think she likes the attention she can draw by being "unhealthy", really.
I always felt "objectified" by my Mother:  everything I did reflected on her as if it was her doing it.  She didn't want me to have my own thoughts even.  A Cousin told me when she visited (she was in her 20's then) and I was about 10, it was like my Mother even wanted to pick my friends for me.  I just hated it is all I know...and couldn't wait to get away from her and her overbearng ways.
...and I did.
For some reason, she isn't pulling this anymore.  She interfered in my marriage in my early 30's and--after I left for 21 years--seems to have calmed down alot.  She isn't interfering like she did, anyway...so she is alot more tolerable than before when I lived closer.
Because of her behavior, I never snooped or interfered with my son's choices often (unless they were waaay off base and thought he would hurt himself).  As a result, he and I have a great relationship today.  You learn from your parents mistakes.
After years and years of pain and hurt and total consfusion as to why my mother was as she was, I can honestly say (1.) I don't care what her problem is anymore and (2.) I'm a happy person....but, geez, I had to go thru so much pain to get here.  What a trip that was!  Hopefully, I live another 30 years to 89...and they are my happiest.  When I think of the confusion and pain I went thru until I was around my 44th year...what a waste of my energy that was. :?
Title: Treat the "child" in you...my story
Post by: Discounted Girl on December 05, 2003, 02:30:01 AM
Yes, I agree with almost all of the postings on this thread. Anastasia, to make a comment on your reflections -- I think I feel mostly like you do for the horrible treatment I received from my Nmother for so so so so many years. How she can stand her ownself is a wonder to me. She is so nasty, unkind and quite frankly I can't find any redeeming qualities in her. It doesn't matter, I no longer care if she has qualities of any description. What I wanted to say is that what I feel is a sense of "mourning" for the years, oh so many of them, that I literally wasted, squirming around trying to please the unpleaseable (is that a word?). Did I grow from that? Yes, but I still wasted precious time. I am only going to walk this world one time, and I wasted a great deal of the time God gave me. I am angry, feel foolish, I don't want revenge, just simple recognition. I am grieving for the time I lost -- I am grieving for the sad little girl that is still inside, who could never understand what she had done to be hated so by her own mother.  :(
Title: Any suggestions about coping?
Post by: Anastasia on December 05, 2003, 10:01:34 AM
Discounted Girl (who an awesome name):  We are on exactly the same wavelength!  And I have always wondered how my Nmother can "look herself in the mirror" but--since she is totally narcissistic and it is always about HER--she isn't even aware what a pig she is.  
She pulled her typical one last night by telling me that when my son gets married I would be so "jealous of his wife" that "I wouldn't be able to stand it."  And why would she say this?  This is projection totally:  Why?  Because she was so jealous (yes, kids, I am aware how totally sick this is) of me when I was 15 and onward because I have large breasts and she is flat chested that she acted like I was a rival for my horrid stepfather's attention...yeeeew icky!!!!  Yes, she is THAT screwed up!  So, in her own little projecting way (as per usual), she assumes that I would be jealous of my daughter-in-law when I get one because SHE in the same position would be.  Sick...pathetic...I know, I know.
And here I sit waiting for the day my son is ready to get married thinking that it would be great to have the daughter (I never had) who will become more of a family and one more person to love in my life...not counting on those grandchildren I cannot wait to play with and spoil.
I told her she was "fucked up" and she screamed "you can't talk to me that way" and slammed the phone down. Of course, old selfish mother can say and DOES the most horrible things in the world to me or other people, but  she acts as if she thinks the world should just revere her.
She is just a classic insensitive, unempathetic, totally self-absorbed narcissist; and, I realize, she is miserable deep down in many ways, totally self-conscious about herself and just so out of touch it is pathetic.
Sigh....I can only work on my reaction to it.  Any suggestions?
Title: Treat the "child" in you...my story
Post by: Discounted Girl on December 05, 2003, 12:43:17 PM
Yes, they are sickos and there's no sense beating around the bush. I still say a lot of this N business is just from people who develop the bad habit of picking on someone and since they are inherently nasty to start with they don't feel ashamed or the desire to improve. Guilt is not something they ever feel. I don't think they are mentally ill, I think they are just plain mean. Would a normal person hate a baby? Gosh, a little baby needs to be loved -- holy cow !! Why are they like that? I don't know, but their cruelties and smear tactics only work on people who have more substance than they do. My Nmother has N'd lots of people in her life and some have just laughed at her or told her to get lost and then moved on. She has found most of her food from me and had I not been a child, trapped in her care, and grew up to be a person of substance, compassion and concern, I would have blown her off long, long ago. So, their dirty deeds only work on people who have open hearts. A closed heart can't bleed. My fake brother and his fake family are prime examples. They lick on her and pretend to care, and as soon as they leave, I am quite certain they never think of her again, unless it's to cash the check. While I am glad that I am not that shallow or out for my own personal gain, I DO wish that, especially when I was a teen and young adult, I had laughed in her face, patted my behind and told her to kiss it, brought home some scumbuckets and embarrassed her, instead of always being the goody two-shoes. And, yes, she was jealous of me, not for the chest, but for my hair. It still makes me nauseous to think about it. How can you hate your little girl? You know what ?? She never held me until I was 6 days old. She told me that story about 10,000 times in my life, constantly talking about it. She's got to be the star of the show, no matter what. It wasn't until about 5 years ago that I switched my thinking to realize she was the weirdo not the little 6 day old baby !!! What did I ever do to deserve her hatred ?? When my boys were born I could not wait to touch them and kiss them. Be jealous of my own kids ?? Come on !!! Be jealous of a girl that my son might fall in love with? No way !!! I intend to welcome her and love her and their children with all my heart. If, for some reason, I ever found fault with her NOBODY would ever know. I would never never cause trouble for my children. They are my responsibility, I want their lives to be wonderful and filled with love and happiness -- THAT'S MY JOB !! I made that choice to have them.

I no longer speak to my mother -- not since the day we buried my father. She had to steal the show at the last moment -- she held out till the very end and then put on her drama with me as the badguy. That woman has no pride or concern as to how others perceive her. Total nut case. Sometimes I think her final rip into my heart was to push me over the edge so that she could give all my dad's money to my fake brother and his fake wife and his fake kids and maybe fund their drug habits ! I laughed when I read that you told your mother she was "f'd up" -- boy, do I ever envy you your courage to say that. I have never had the chance to tell mine what I think of her. She runs away when things are not going in her direction. She has even checked herself in the hospital to avoid having a face-off with someone she thought might give it back to her.  Just a complete fruitloop old bag.

I don't know what to tell you on how to deal with her - my initial comment would be to freeze her out, cut her off, let her go feed off someone else. I don't know. I can tell you one thing, never, never under any circumstances, I will die first, will I let that N who actually gave birth to me and hated me, never will I let her hurt me again. She must think I am an alien, some parasite she had to endure for 9 months and then hated. Sometimes I fantasize that she gave me away to some lady who would have loved me and rocked me and sang to me and told me stories and played games with me -- who would have talked with me about boys and makeup and girly things. I had to figure everything out myself, she never helped me with my homework, she never even asked me if I had any homework. My first bra was literally thrown at me from across the room and she and my brother and my dad all stood there and laughed at me. I remember wanting to die of embarrassment. She says-- here you need this and threw it at me.  They were all laughing -- how cruel is that ? I ran to my bed crying, just totally mortified. When I started my periods, barely 11 yr old, I didn't know what to do. She didn't help me at all -- nothing. I didn't have any money to go buy pads -- I was so embarrassed -- I would sneak into her drawers and get some. I get so mad sometimes thinking about her. I tell you I have good childhood memories surrounding my father but totally zero with my mother.

I have always gotten along better with men than women. I always thought it was cause I had no positive experience with women. I have no sisters, no daughters, not even a close female cousin. I have an aunt who I am pretty sure loves me. It was a known belief in our household that I was second to my brother because boys were more desirable than girls. When I was little and played mother, I pretended my children were boys. Then, I grew up and had 2 boys. It's just incredible -- I manifested my thought patterns. I got to go -- got that sick tight feeling in my stomach again.

Good luck to all of us -- MEMORIES BE GONE !!!
Title: Sounds like your mother didn't like herself...
Post by: Anastasia on December 05, 2003, 06:35:29 PM
I have always had a problem with women who hated women.  Where does this come from?  Is it seeing other women as competition?
As for me, although I am heterosexual, I have always had an equal liking for men and women.  Don't know why.  Just the way it is.  I'm happy.
Maybe the fact that I had a looney mother and a totally sick stepfather who raised me--and I equally disliked them both--maybe that helped me like both sexes...pretty funny actually...ha!  
Regardless, Discounted Girl, how I can relate to so many of your stories and situations.
You know my Nmother used to call me the "big titted cow" and other demeaning names.  I didn't call her flat as a pancake but I did, one short period, make fun of her A cup bra.  I just got sick of her nasty and insulting mouth.  I just thought she was not only unmotherly but an ass for doing that...a jealous ass at that.
Title: Treat the "child" in you...my story
Post by: CC on December 15, 2003, 01:08:57 PM

Going a little off the subject here, but I wanted to address this:

I have always had a problem with women who hated women. Where does this come from? Is it seeing other women as competition?

While I certainly do not hate women, and have women friends that I have healthy relationships with - I will say that they are few and far between, and that over my lifetime, I have always preferred the company of men.  

I attribute this to mistrust, and inability to relate... because the two women role models in my life were highly narcissistic (my mother and my sister who is 13 years my elder).

I felt the competitiveness that you spoke about when I was in college and high school - and the competitiveness to be "as pretty, as popular" stemmed from my lack of acceptance from my own mother.  I was never good enough - therefore, I sought constantly to be good enough or better than the other women acquaintances in my life.  I formed superficial friendships with them when I was younger to gain approval and to gain popularity with men, with whom I preferred the company of anyway.  But the truth was, I was never truly happy inside, and no matter how popular I appeared on the outside, I never felt accepted by other women.

Even now, in my adult life and after some healing - I find that seeking out new friendships with women is not my favorite pastime.  I am comfortable with the two or three women friends that I'm close to - and even those friends I only speak with once or twice a month, if that.

Anyway, just thought I'd shed some light from another perspective - I am wondering if the women that "hate" women (more extreme cases than me) are really a product of where they came from.