Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board

Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => What Helps? => Topic started by: Jenocidal on August 21, 2004, 03:16:51 PM

Title: Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
Post by: Jenocidal on August 21, 2004, 03:16:51 PM
Outing the Narcissist

I came across the definition of NPD four weeks ago, and I've spent the last four weeks reading about it.  All my life, I felt my mother had antisocial personality disorder, like her father did.  Her punishments were brutal.  Then I found the definiton of NPD, and it explained my mother perfectly - except that my mother did rage on me as a child, physically abusing me... sociopathy was not a 100% match.  But the NPD was.

Now that I am starting this "healing process", I was wondering how many of you recommend telling your narcissistic mother what you've learned about them?

A final "this is what you did to me -- this is why we don't have a relationship?"  Would that be considered part of the "healing process"?

Her and I are not on speaking terms after a fullon narcissistic rage session I had to endure on my little brother's graduation day (4 weeks ago her little man graduated - she wasn't about to share that day with me).

My narcissistic mother doesn't get along with anyone on all sides of our family.  Nobody can handle her idiopathy.

Am I selfish for wanting to show her what she is?  I have a strong desire to out her.  Bare in mind this woman is still damaging my little brother whom she sleeps with.
Title: Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
Post by: Discounted Girl on August 22, 2004, 10:18:01 AM
Trying to explain to her what her "problems" are and what they have done to you might help you in the satisfaction department, but it would do nothing to change her, in fact it would give her further ammo to discuss what a horrible person you are and might give her more ideas to rev up the smear campaign. At this point, you probably have nothing to lose though.
Title: Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
Post by: Jenocidal on August 22, 2004, 02:31:05 PM
Thanks for your reply.  I'm going to take a few days and compile my final word.

The info I've read on this board has been a tremendous enlightenment.
Title: tread lightly...
Post by: PnkDragn on August 27, 2004, 11:55:59 AM
I just found out there was a name for my Nfather.  Its good to know that I am not the one who is crazy.  After reading what NPD is I find myself wanting to help or fix my Nparent.  What stops me is what I know would happen if I brought this to his attention.  The "punishment" would be the worst I have ever received.  See in their eyes they are perfect, so if someone as insignificant as us try to tell them they are a "bad" person that would only confirm to them how insignificant we are and how little we know and back up their idea of them being perfect because they know more then we do.

If you are going to confront your Nmother go into it being prepared for the worst "punishment" you have ever received.  That way it wont be such a shock to you when it happens and you'll be able to deal with it better.  I believe confronting your past is the greatest way to start the healing process, but with this condition it is a loose-loose situation.

When i read your post a situation that happened a few years ago came to mind.  After several years of being married to my brother and saw the affect of how Nfather treated him she decided to confront him.  Well, mom had tried to tell her not to do it but she didnt listen.  If I had know what she was planning I would have tried to prepare her for what was going to happen.  They were in a restraunt when it happened and Nfather was yelling at the top of his lungs in the restraunt.  She had told him she didnt think if he would care if his son were to die tomorrow.  He said "it would be just another day".  Needless to say my sis-in-law was beside herself.  I dont think she ever had a clue that people could be this way.  After she left the restraunt she was so overwhelmed that she had to pull over and cried her eyes out for an hour.  

If you feel so strongly about confronting your Nmother be prepaired for what WILL happen and that is may be 10 times worse then you ever had before.  Prepare your brother for the brunt he may get as the only scapegoat around.

Please think carefully about this.  Know that it will not affect the Nmother in the way that you hope.  I know it is a frustrating situation, but until the day your Nmom acnowledges that she has a problem (which probably never happens) there is nothing you can do to change the problem.

Treading lightly,
Title: Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
Post by: Anonymous on August 27, 2004, 05:40:34 PM
Hi, I am Jenocidals aunt. I know her like she was my own daughter, and what she says about her NParent is very true. Jenocidal has suffered things growing up with her NMother that you wouldn't believe if I told you. She always had a special spirit and I would see her mother darken her world every day with violence and bitterness. Everything that her NMother suffered during her life since childhood, she took it all out on her precious daughter. I know, because I was there and I was also dominated by my sister since we were little girls. Then I felt helpless to do anything about it when I would see her strike her daughter (Jenocidal) across the face.

One day, we were sitting around the kitchen table and her mother was worked up about something. We were talking, when suddenly Jenocidal came up to her and asked her to look at this song she had just written. Instead of being suprised and delighted and taking the song and reading it on the paper, she procceeded to scream at her and punched her right in the jaw for daring to interupt.

I saw that and I was devastated and did not know what to do. This was my sister against her own child, who was barely even into her teens yet. She started to sob and I felt helpless to do anything. I stood up -- I said how what she had just done was wrong, and I kicked her out of my place and then after she left I called the child protection services. Of course, they "investigated" and nothing was ever done. She had talked her way out of it, again. And my niece had just undergone only one incident out of many in her lifetime, growing up.

It wasn't the physical violence so much, we all had had a taste of that -- it was the emotional trauma and terrorization. She lost her little spirit, and I would try to tell her that it wasn't her fault, when she would be sobbing. Her mother was supposed to be her world. When that world becomes so hurtful, she had no where to turn for answers.

I see her now as reaching out, and she has finally gotten some critical answers to what was happening to her. For this, and you people who have gone and/or are going through the same or similar situations, I am eternally grateful. She needs all the support she can get, even though she is an adult now. That child is still screaming "why" inside, and she is finally starting to find some answers that make sense.

Thank you for this board. Without the answers, she would be eternally asking the same questions over and over again. It helps to be able to relate to others when you have been convinced that you are alone in this world and no one understands. They do understand, even though their situations were different.

Jenocidal, as for confronting your mother, you know as well as I do that it will never, ever sink ion and she will never, ever realise what a beautiful, precious daughter she has always had in you. This is the biggest tragedy of all. Her own mother never knew how special and precious she is.
Title: Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
Post by: Dawning on August 27, 2004, 06:05:19 PM
How about if you quote a section of a book about narcissism (ie, in writing?) in a letter to N-whoever  :?:   I've thought about doing this with my dad pertaining to the section on *what you have to gain/lose by confronting a parent with NPD* in a book called Longing for Dad: Father Loss and Its Impact (page 210-212.)
Title: Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
Post by: ch on August 27, 2004, 07:46:21 PM
Dear Jenocidal,

in short, DON'T DO IT!!  
resist the temptation to do that.  don't let them know what you know. don't feed them more drugs!!!  your concern, benevolence in the form of positive energy is their source of N!!!  don't fall back into the vicious cycle.  don't be a N-supplier!!!
its better to use your energy toward taking care of yourself.
Title: Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
Post by: Dawning on August 30, 2004, 02:19:07 AM
In Beth Erickson's book - that I mentioned above - she suggests approaching fathers as a necessary stage of recovery.  However, what she has to say about approaching N fathers is interesting, I think.  Perhaps, it could apply to the topic of this thread.  Here is what she writes:

Narcissitically self-absorbed fathers: These fathers are dangerous because they are involved with no one but themselves.  They will hold court only with those who will adore them.  These fathers must come across as perfect at all costs, even and especially when they are not.  So a discussion of mistakes they made or of what was missing is extremely precarious because of the threat that they might have to see their own imperfections.  These fathers deftly dodge taking responsibility for their actions or inaction unless a therapist helps hold their feet to the fire.  Otherwise, blame for their children's pain will probably get shifted back to the child.  Blaming and faultfinding characterize many interactions because such fathers are unable to take what they perceive as criticism.  Dumping on others allows them to continue their delusions of adequacy.  These parents have the narcissistic tendency to see their children as objects who are reflections of themselves.  If parents are not too rigidly defended by their self-absorption, they can be helped to respond to what their children need with coaching, usually from a therapist.  But other parents, true narcissists according to psychologist Elana Golomb, are more impervious to their children's needs - or anyone else's, for that matter.  In her powerful book, Trapped in the Mirror:Adult Children of Narcissists in Their Struggle for Self, she wrote, "The child of a (true) narcissist is not supposed to see her own power....Credit to the self interferes with obedience to the law: Be nothing."

Children of narcissistic parents must develop numerous defenses in an effort to survive psychologically.  You must become "psychologically hard of hearing," deafening yourself as a defense against your parent's attributing to you what is unacceptable in the parent.  Narcissists must always be right.  If you grew up with a steady diet of being wrong and bad, before long, you began to believe this very powerful person's messages.  Despite attempts to deflect your parent's  annihilating messages, some still penetrated, and you ended up internalizing some of these crushing, denigrating statements.  These zingers then became part of your own inner dialogue.  It is easy to see the extreme delicacy of approaching these types of fathers with the wish for greater honestly and emotional connection in the relationship.  This does not mean, however, that facing him is not a good idea.  It is.  At the very least, when you finally speak your truth, you can begin to extricate yourself from your narcissistic father's clutches.  If you believe your father falls into this category, I urge you to seek therapeutic help both to determine whether or not this is the case, and to craft a plan for how to proceed.  Even if a conversation is only reiteration of your father's rationalized self-interest, at least you will have tried everything.  There is no more to do but to disconnect and grieve the fathering you never had and never will have.
Title: Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
Post by: ch on August 30, 2004, 10:07:54 AM
Thanks for that Excellent posting.
I guess all children of Nparents need to go back for one more last try, just to be sure that they are N people and, therefore, are really hopeless.  Thank goodness, i am finished with my confrontation and can rid the guilt once and for all.  WHen i grieved and mourned my loss of a childhood that could never be, i often found myself wishing the revelation had come much sooner.  I wish i had left after college and never looked back.  Instead, i refused to trust my instincts and kept coming back to try and try again as an adult.  

I am glad i am done with this phase.
Title: Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
Post by: seeker on August 30, 2004, 11:33:10 AM
Hi Jenocidal & Auntie & all,

My heart goes out to you.  First to J's aunt: I know that helplessness.  My crazy SIL adopted two children as if to say "see if you can stop me".  We knew how unhealthy she was.  The only consequence available was to disconnect from her.  I had witnessed nothing as you had, but had grave suspicions, esp. after seeing two black eyes on one little boy.  Although you feel that calling CPS did nothing, at least it was a hint to J that her mother's behavior is NOT normal according to the outside world.  Of course, it must have been awful to realize how good a liar a mom can be.

J, I would not inform your mom what N is.  Threat of exposure will only cause her to drop the atom bomb on you.  Have a disinterested third party do any dirty work.  Ask CPS what they would evidence they would need to correct the situation with your brother.  

I really really agree with ch when she talks about supply.  Even negative energy is supply.  In a word, any kind of drama is supply.  I once read that the way to get rid of an abusive N boyfriend is to become very very boring.  If you distance yourself from your terrorist, you have won.

Good luck, Seeker
Title: Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
Post by: Plucky G2 on June 20, 2005, 11:34:23 PM
Bear in mind this woman is still damaging my little brother whom she sleeps with.

Do you mean incest? Is that what you mean?  If so, I would not hesitate to do whatever it took to get your brother out of there.  Ignore anything he says or does, he is a twisted child who is going to need lots of help.

If I misunderstood, please forgive.
Title: Re: Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
Post by: missm on July 14, 2005, 03:24:37 PM
My mother is also narcissistic.  I confronted her about the effects of her behavior when I was in my early twenties, after my first year of therapy, and my first abusive relationship.  I am now 33, and have come to realize that in engaging her in a conversation about her behavior, I really gave her an opportunity to re-negotiate the "contract" of subservience and servitude I entered into as an infant.  Her supposed understanding and concessions to my anger allowed me to continue to idealize her and remain in her shadow through my continuing fear of her disapproval or rejection. 

Alice Miller talks about confronting the "inner" parent.  I think this is far more important than how we interact with the parent as they exist today.  In my case, I feel that my mother does not have the frame of reference, or the self-awareness to process anything I might try to discuss with her negative impact on my development.  I do, however, think it's extremely important to determine how our continuing relationship affects my current mental state, and draw whatever boundaries are necessary to maintain my own self-esteem and mental health.
Title: Re: Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
Post by: enough on August 17, 2007, 03:43:47 PM
hi all,
i'm new to these boards and am finding them very (tearfully!) helpful.
this is an old topic, but i must reply to it!  i wrote my parents and brother letters this past week, outing their N ways; something i wish i had done so many years ago (i'm 37 now).
thing is, i'm sitting here waiting for the bomb to drop. the bomb that will top all the others that have been dropped throughout my life.  i feel it had to be done and yet, here i am again, afraid.  i live a good distance from the 3 of them, but would not be the least bit suprised to find at least 1 of them at my door this weekend.


thanks for listening,
Title: Re: Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
Post by: JanetLG on August 17, 2007, 03:57:07 PM

Welcome to the board. You will be heard here, and you can explain what's happened to bring you to this point. We will listen to you, and believe you, too.

As you've said, this particular thread topic is an old one, and I think the people concerned aren't on the forum now, but there are many people (me included) who have confronted family members, with many different outcomes.

You might find it more helpful to post your own story on the main forum section, in your own thread.

As to what response you'll get after telling family of origin members that you believe them to be N's - in my experience, they will not believe you, but it may fuel retaliation (they will want you to stay as you were, and do what they want, and keep quiet), so yes, you may well need to be wary.

But you can post here, and get very good advice from all sorts of people on what to do now.

I'm sorry if all this is upsetting, but I'm afraid that happens first, before you get used to being strong, and moving on with your life.

I'm sure you can do it.

Just by finding this board, and posting, you've taken the first steps.

Title: Re: Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
Post by: enough on August 17, 2007, 07:26:26 PM
thanks for your support. 
my experience is, as i'm sure is the case with all the experiences here, soooo  complex. i will certainly post them in a bit; things are really raw right now.
what i'm afraid of, mostly, is my father's anger and tendency to be phyiscal.
this whole process is so draining, and yet liberating....
Title: Re: Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
Post by: Life is Precious on August 18, 2007, 12:59:10 AM
Hi everyone,

I'm so glad I found this site. I would have liked to have had this kind of community a long time ago.

I have knwon for several months now that my so-called parents must have been Narcissistic. They were certainly pathologically abusive. I am posting my story here in order to see if it helps me to get some positive feedback from other individuals who have had similar pasts, as well as the courage to face their pasts and the integrity/strength of character to get beyond narcissistic abuse from parents.

Please pardon me for the length of this posting, but I would like to share my childhood history. I would like to receive feedback from anyone who would care to send me any encouragement in my journey.

"N.parents" for me, stands for Narcissistic-Parents and also Non-Parents, because the N.Parent cannot really 'parent' anyone. They can only conscript the yung child's life and resources in the service of their own ego and personal drama. So, they are the least qualified psychologically to be good caregivers.

In my particular case, the N.Parents were very well educated and upper-middle class. They demanded absolute loyalty and a kind of adoration from my older brother, myself and my younger sister. When we were children, they frequently "spoiled" us with material gifts and would tell us how unworthy we were to have them as parents. How they were the 'best parents' anyone could have. They were constantly telling us how they had financially difficult childhoods and how they were sparing us all that misery. And how ungrateful we were for all that.

I used to tell them that it was not MY responsibility that they suffered. I used to tell them: "Is that why you are trying to make us unhappy too?" They hated me for talking back to them. As I grew older, it becmame more and more difficult to live with them and even have a decent conversation with them. My borther used to go around chanting "You are the best paretns in the world".  He was so fearful of them.

When I was 13, I had a full scholarship to an international school (I come from an Asian country - I will leave out details here). The N.Parents were seriously upset by this. I think they realized that I was growing up and living my own life, bit by bit and. This made them feel like I was losing my childhood dependence on them. They took this as a serious attack, aimed deliberately at them. In their warped view, this must have looked like abject ingratitude in the first degree. They were both medical doctors so they were used to everyone kow towing to them.  But, it was not in my character to just give up and become their slave.

The result of this was that they told me I must be mentally derranged. That children who are mentally well do not behave like I did. My siblings and I were by now living in an extremely anxious environment. The N.Parents were extremely unhappy in their marriage. My N.Mother used to complain to my aunt about how her N.Husband never paid any attention to her. They took out their personal fruistrations on us. We became their  scapegoats. They would tell us how life would have been perfect without us. How we were useless, worthless children.

In an effort to control me, when I was 13 , my own N.Parents declared me mentally ill. In the third world country where I was born, children have very few rights. Parents who are doctors often prescribe medicines to their own families and no one bats an eyelid. If a parent gives you enough to eat, they cannot be considered bad parents. It is unthinkable to an Asian mind that paretnal abuse could even occur. So, I was very, very much alone in this situation. From the ages of 13-18, the N-Parents subjected me to psychiatric abuse. They formed me to take psychotropic medications, forced me to see a friend of theirs' who was a psychiatrist, threatened to incarcerate me in this frightening mental institution etc. They got a psychiatrist friend of theirs to give me shock treatment. This happened several times. I was emotionally and socially degraded and reviled for 5 years. During those years, I suffered tremdous stress; developed obsessive complusive disoreder (I was always washing my hands, trying to 'clean' myself up from the horrors of each day); I put on 30 Lbs. of extra wiehgt and chronic eczema, which covered my body like a rash of burn sores.

No one helped me at all. My brother and my sister, no doubt afraid for their own survival, became the N.Parents' best helpers and fans. I think that these N.Parents had no fear of retribution or consequences, so we were in very real danger. I think this is typical of third word countries, where children have very few right at all. NO ONE listens to children who complain of abuse by parents becuase in that culture, it is take for granted that parents are like gods and that they can do no wrong, especially if they are socially and professionally high achieving.

I know now, looking back, that they were also emotionally incestuous. Back then, I had no idea that such a concept even existed, I simply knew that I hated them and and their attitude. My N.Mother viewed my growing up as a serious threat. There was one time when she hid my teenage bras and refused to let me have them. I had to complain to my N.Father until he got very angry with her and told her to give me back my  bras. Can you believe this? When I think back, I reject her for this disgraceful abuse of a young daughter.

In the meantime, they were constantly degrading each other. He was never interested in being her friend or acting like a couple. In this world view, everyone was against him and beneath him, including the N.Mother. He would tell her how she was an inferior doctor and that she was jealous of other women. I think she felt really worthless both intellectually and personally, because in return, she did everything she could to try and get his approval, including throw us into the fire of his anger, just to show him how far she would go to be a great team with him. There was one incident where she took my underwear from the laundry and showed it to him pretending that she had a 'medical concern"! I was absolutely MORTIFIED. That was when I realized that I did not have parents. I was living with emotional Nazis and I had to bide my time until I could legally get away from them.

I honestly cannot think of worst people than these, except for perhaps the mass murderers who occupy the history books. Ironically, I think my N.Father's particular selfish brand of Narcissism is probably why they did not gang up on us to hit us or pyshically/sexually abuse us. Even when they were cruel to us, he was clear that she too was beneath him in the final analysis.  In retrospect, I wonder whether she was really trying to use us as bait in order to have some kind of relationship with him, even if it meant creating the "shared enemy" out of her own kids. I think his self-absorbed N. would not give her the satisfaction of thinking that he was her ally or her equal in anything, including their abuse of us.

When I look back on all this, I think they felt like they were 'acknowledged' when they were cruel. They relished it when all their friends would tell them what a shame it was that their talented daughter was mentally ill. How much they had done for me and how incurable  my 'illness' was. They were the martyrs, and I was the evil child. They were satisfied when it was clear to them how much suffering they had unleashed on me. I think this is another reason that they did not actually physically abuse us. I do not think it was because they had any concept of respect for us or for our lives but rather because they had pretty much spent their anger on psychiatric cruelty.

It was a family from hell. Now, when I look back, I cannot imagine how on earth I came through that except that God Must Be Real.

My freedom from them came suddenly, when at 18, the N.Parents shipped me off to school in England, where my N.Father tried to collaborate with his elder sister, also a doctor in England, to send me to a spychiatrist and get me on medications. Well, guess what? In England, it is not possible to put someone on medication just because you are a petty-dictator in a back in your third world country. The doctor that I saw flatly refused to give me any medications. In fact, he said he was astonished that I had pulled through all that hell. Because my N.Parents were never British Citizens, British law against child abuse cannot affect my Asian N.Parents.

This was almost 20 years ago that I made my great escape, away from N.Parents who degraded me for 5 long years, subjected me to systematic abuse and used their education and social influence to destroy my crediibility and to disable me psychologically and socially - why? Because I DARED to speak up for myself and be an individual. Because I refused to be a clone of their egos.

I have not seen the N.Family for over 10 years and I will not pressure myself to even look at them again. I am glad to give myself that much. I moved to the USA some years ago and I'm doing fine. I've had many confrontation with them in the pasdt and told them exactly what I think of them and now, I just don't want to feel strong negative emotion any more because it can be damaging. And I don't want that for myself.

These days, I often have moments of terrible anguish, the most horrible pain and emotional suffering when I remember that time of torture. I want to stop suffering when I remember things. I hug myself and I tell myself that I did great. I want myself to heal and have fewer moments of anxiety, stress and emotional suffering. There were times in the past when I had major stress episodes, pushed away people who loved me, had serious anger and rage. Time helps to heal eveyrthing . I do know that if you honestly want to let go of the past and disable its power to harm you, then you can do just that. I see a therapist and am considering group therapy, because I think it would be great to share with other people who understand suffering and the task of moving on.

I think my survival and my life are a MIRACLE. I can't take credit for that, because I honestly don't know how anyone can go through all that, but I am just immensely grateful that I am in one piece and that I am still standing. AND that I am not on drugs, or getting into abusive relationships of just destryoing my life. I owe my survival to God and this innate ability I have been given to keep my sense of self, even when my N.Parents were threatening my life. I absolutely believe that God can heal me and give me freedom beyond my highest expectations.

Life Is Precious. And I will NOT let the N.Parents  steal my life or the JOY of my life from me.

So, that's my experience. Thank you all for listening to me. I know this is a lot to tell/share, but I hope that talking to you online will be another positive step in the direction of healing and restoration.

Title: Re: Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
Post by: dandylife on August 18, 2007, 01:06:09 AM
Life is Precious, you wrote, "These days, I often have moments of terrible anguish, the most horrible pain and emotional suffering when I remember that time of torture. I want to stop suffering when I remember things. I hug myself and I tell myself that I did great. I want myself to heal and have fewer moments of anxiety, stress and emotional suffering. There were times in the past when I had major stress episodes, pushed away people who loved me, had serious anger and rage. Time helps to heal eveyrthing ."

Glad you could share here and that you felt safe enough to post. I hope that life has brought you joys to feel to counter that anguish.

Title: Re: Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
Post by: JanetLG on August 18, 2007, 05:13:19 AM
Life is Precious,

What you've been through sounds appalling. :shock:

You are very strong to have survived that.

You're obviously very intelligent, and have worked out/through a lot already.

The realeasing the anger and hurt, and getting to a stage of acceptance is the rtricky part, IMO, but keep posting here and you can get a lot further forward.

Your family were awful to you, and you didn't deserve that.

I'm so sorry.

Title: Re: Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
Post by: Hopalong on August 18, 2007, 02:42:29 PM
Hi Enough...

Just checking in with you on Saturday afternoon. Is everything peaceful?
Any response to the letters?

I hope you take comfort in having spoken your truth and now that it's done,
you've released a lot of the past by describing it openly.

It's almost like "giving it to time" -- when you tell the truth of childhood.

Let us know how you are when you can.

Title: Re: Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
Post by: enough on August 18, 2007, 02:58:24 PM
hi hops,
thanks for checking in.
mom called last night, at 11 pm...they go to bed religiously at 9:00 so i didn't answer; i knew she would be drunk. (on a regular night, she gets drunk between 7-9 pm.  EVERY night. so i knew that if she had been drinking from 7-11, i definately didn't want to talk to her !)

i have not heard anything since, but i am really on edge this weekend!!!!!!!!!!!

thanks again...i'll keep you updated!
Title: Re: Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
Post by: enough on August 18, 2007, 03:06:09 PM
oh! so she got the answering machine and didn't leave a message. thank goodness for caller I.D.
Title: Re: Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
Post by: enough on September 28, 2007, 03:56:03 PM
wow, an update:

my brother emailed and said that i NEED to call my parents and "make peace".

my mom emailed and finally responded to my letters.

she said that by bringing up the past, i was acting like a teenager who didn't get her own way.  she told me to grow up.

in response to my telling my parents that it isn't just past stuff; that it is all still happening to this day, she told me that i need to 'get help'.

she gave me the old, "raising 3 kids is hard!  your father worked and worked for you!  i bet you know a lot of people whose parents disowned them because they are gay" (i'm bisexual)...."we didn't disown you!  grow up!"


Title: Re: Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
Post by: JanetLG on September 28, 2007, 05:08:27 PM

Thanks for the update.

Unfortunately, what has happened is not unusual at all. An 'obediant relative' is often sent with a message to get the 'bad one' to 'change back'.

This idea that you are being childish, etc, is so typical, but still wrong. I hope you know that. You are still right in what you are doing, but obviously they would rather you didn't make them face the past, and what they've done to you.

Did you want your parents to respond at all? Or did you just want to tell them exactly how you felt, but not have contact any more? What do you want to happen next? (You don't have to answer these questions here if you don't want to, but it might help to think about them  :)  )

I hope things work out OK.

Title: Re: Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
Post by: enough on September 28, 2007, 06:15:28 PM
hi janet,
thank you for the supportive words.

well when i wrote my parents the letters, my hope was that we could, as a family, address the issues i brought up.  it took them a month to respond, during which time i had resigned myself to the idea that they were not going to respond (communication and honesty do not sit well with my parents!)  once i accepted their silence, i felt free; for the first time in my life (i'm 37) i felt like an adult.

i have just a couple issues with my mother; its my father who is the MAJOR manipulative control freak (and my brother is turning out exactly like him...) and yet its my mom and brother whom i have heard from; not my dad (my parents are still married and in the same house! its not like he didn't see the letters i wrote!)
Title: Re: Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
Post by: reallyME on September 28, 2007, 09:37:21 PM
I was just thinking about something one of your posts said about reporting the abuser and having nothing done and even returning the child back to the abuser.

The person I reported, apparently is going without being dealt with and supposedly the abuse victim is doing fine, although I heard otherwise from the graphic descriptions of blood and bruises on the child's body. 

It is just disheartening to me, how, when people report abuse, the abusers are given a slap on the hand, are able to dupe the police and/or judge, and, most likely the child "gets it" even worse after the fact, which, of course, puts the blame for reporting it, back onto the one who dared to take action.

Sorry, but this sux as far as I'm concerned.  Stepping out and reporting abuse has cost me many things...friendships, dignity, trust, etc...but I can tell you, I will report every instance of it, for the rest of my living days!

Title: Re: Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
Post by: JanetLG on September 29, 2007, 04:03:33 AM

I wish it was the way that once things had been 'outed' to a family, that everyone involved would rally round and try to make things less painful for the person who has blown the whistle. But it's not like that. What happened to you (the actual abuser - your F - doesn't reply at all, and the others take weeks to respond) is just so typical. In a NORMAL family, that wouldn't happen, but that's not what you are dealing with, and neither was I. In dysfunctional families, what is 'normal' is the same pattern of abuse that's been happening for years, so the 'bystanders' (your mother and brother) probably have a  lot invested in things staying the same - after all, if you stopped getting abused, then perhaps the focus would shift onto THEM?! :shock:

I'm glad that the respite of a month gave you time to start feeling like an adult. That's not a sarcastic thing to say, although reading it back over, it does sound like that! What I mean is, it's given you time to see clearer what needs to change, and if they won't change, then you can make the changes yourself. No Contact is hard at first, but becomes much easier with time, as you see how much better you feel once you are out of the sphere of influence of toxic people. Whether they're your parents or not should be irrelevant (but it does confuse the issue) - you still need to protect yourself from dangerous people, whoever they are.