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91

Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: N.

« Last post by Meh on February 08, 2026, 10:21:32 PM »

Hops,

The part where you write that you had wasted two precious years on various N relationships stands out to me. The N thing is very much a deadend. There is lots of stagnation. Simple things feel like they are made difficult with an N. Difficult things made worse.

 In that one book that I put into the garbage to dispose of my self-help evidence there was a line in the book that pointed out how an N will do this very tangential thinking in their conversations but there is ultimately no point to it like there is no goal-cooperation-task-action-activity that comes out of it. That was something I saw when I was at my N father's place. And when my brother was still alive my brother had mentioned something about this years ago how the N father had a STORY about everything and he wanted to tell you a story about this thing and that thing etc. But this is not really the mind of a person who ever has to get anything done. And anyhow Narcissists waste time in so many ways. For me it was just confirmation that the author Margalis Fjelstad had made a point of writing it down in a book.

92

Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: N.

« Last post by Hopalong on February 08, 2026, 03:50:25 PM »

[moved after I posted it on the wrong thread....]

Meh, if your Nfather is making pointless calls to ask a woman to share her un-needed plastic bags....sounds to me like a fairly typical N-move, because what people driven by the narcissism gene crave as much as oxygen, is just attention. Any attention from any source at any time is better than their agony without it. And getting old and presumably less mobile and energetic, he's reduced to this?

Maybe she is patient with him, or offers him a friendly voice for a moment.

From my experiences with Nmom, N-BF, and even my latest N-friend, his empty call seems like an attention fix. Your thoughts about the bags thing are rational and logical. I think Nism comes from a nearly cellular survival part of them, and a thoughtful person's exasperation doesn't register -- or change them, ever.

I was groomed my whole life to pay ATTENTION (comfort, soothe, praise, cooperate with or obey and listen to...) the nearby N. It's only been in the last decade or so that I've learned enough about the disorder to see patterns, and after loads of reading about it, to recognize what they are usually about. I still wasted two precious years with N-bf (M), and though it's not romantic, my intense struggles over Poet are the same thing in a different combination. Such old habits take a sturdy trowel and a LOT of digging to uproot.

As you've witnessed here lately, my drive to do all that was/is also a survival drive. I'm grateful for insight even if it comes late, and generally able to calm myself down eventually, with a little help from my friends. And I'm faster at doing it myself sometimes, too.

I know you can graaaaaduallly get a stronger grip on your own handlebars, so either N-parent won't be able to make you feel crazy. You AIN'T crazy. You're sane.

Love the way you observe so finely, too. This doesn't make their issues go away, but it can build increasing confidence in your OWN mind, your OWN decisions.

hugs
Hops

93

Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: N.

« Last post by Meh on February 08, 2026, 02:15:18 PM »

You're right, Meh.  Worry drains us, and takes up space where creative problem solving usually lives, ime.

My T says to do what I can, then put the worries on a shelf.....then go back to joyful things.

Lighter

Sounds good Lighter. Joy is often memorable at least. Looking back even in bad times if one can squeeze something in there that is apart from worries it's good. Worries are not something that I often look back on and think "I am glad I worried about that." -- But the worry inventory for me is about figuring out rationally what I can put on the back burner. I was starting to worry my old pants would like rip in the butt lol... it's like one of those public shame worries. I am living light to put it mildly and all my personal belongings seem scattered to the wind but it also is a fact that I have to like de-prioritize this worry for the day at least. I need to just get some Jim Morrison leather pants. Just kidding. Anyhow. The worry categorization is just a journal process for me. I think it's just me working through a crisis of stress because if I don't write it out it's all like vague drifting weather patterns in my emotional field. Maybe I should just call it my stress cloud. My worry cloud. Anyhow. Merely trying to de-escalate myself. I have some goals for the day. And I think I will simplify it more to two main goals. I do need to do some job applications and I am going to go out briefly I think to listen to some live music maybe. And that is that. Oh exercise must happen. And lunch must happen.                                      - walk-applications-music-eat   --- yeah that is good enough. 

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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Thought slams: sudden insights that surprise

« Last post by Meh on February 08, 2026, 02:02:58 PM »

You know while I was at the Narcissist's I found a few pieces of artwork on a free table. Not great art but I put it up on the wall along with some pages from an art book. And the only thing it cost me was minor effort and will. On one hand it's nothing. On the other hand I don't really believe they did the best they could do. Maybe I don't care if they did the best they could do or not. In the end it doesn't matter if what they did was intentional or not. (At the moment I feel my disgust is useful to me at least.)

I think I need to work on agency, self responsibility, accepting reality, maybe checking out how controlling I am. Not being a victim, working through shame, embarrassment. Or something like that. I think witnessing a low-functioning covert narcissist.. inspires me to try to do a lot more self-work. I do not fully understand how this has impacted me or if I am also disordered or whatever. Anyhow. I won't hijack this thread.

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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: N.

« Last post by lighter on February 08, 2026, 02:01:50 PM »

 You're right, Meh.  Worry drains us, and takes up space where creative problem solving usually lives, ime.

My T says to do what I can, then put the worries on a shelf.....then go back to joyful things.

Lighter

96

Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Thought slams: sudden insights that surprise

« Last post by lighter on February 08, 2026, 09:17:43 AM »

You paint a vivid image, in your description of father's behaviors.....learned helplessness, and so much more.  Lot's of co-morbidity in the world.... overlapping symptoms and dx's......might be many answers, Meh.  Not just one.

I find I wring my hands, so long, till something in my belly clicks.  The click means I'm sick to death if being sick to death of trying to to figure out the misery puzzle.....of neeeeeding to make sense of something nonsensical.....that will never make any sense, and that's that.  I'm bored, with the idea of thinking about it, ever again.

Such a relief, and maybe that particular "process" has shortened up, over the years, for me.  Lately, I feel myself bounce, over things I used to land on......grip onto. Wrestle with. Bouncing feels like a shortcut to peace, IME.

Your mindful observations are huge, IME.  That shift, into witnessing....is everything, IME.  To calmly process traumatic behaviors.....yes.

Young Meh deserved better parents...... that's a very real truth I hope you internalize fully.

 Your parents were/are broken.  They would likely have done better, if they could.  I don't think they were capable.

Lighter

97

Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Thought slams: sudden insights that surprise

« Last post by Meh on February 07, 2026, 10:54:03 PM »

Have had similar thoughts that maybe the N father was/is on the autism spectrum but then after seeing him again I am back at the low-functioning covert narcissist explanation. It grosses me out he makes a phone call merely to ask his friend in the nearby apartment building if she has plastic bags as if he can't get some plastic bags. It's such a pathetic, pointless, not urgent, non-need. But he will act helpless and stupid even if he doesn't actually NEED it in that moment. Gawd I hate this stuff.

Lighter's point about the WHY not mattering so much that is probably a useful point of view. I am trying to get there to the end of asking the Why part. It has helped to label things for me though due to it has been a key to finding info. The WHY part I get almost OCD about it.

The grief of not having good care takers is awful maybe the WHY comes up as still trying to buffer and cope with how awful the truth of it is. Shrug.

98

Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: N.

« Last post by Meh on February 07, 2026, 10:05:20 PM »

Maybe too much to write. Maybe analysis paralysis. Maybe a beer-induced brain fog.

I think I've been getting a beer once ever 2-3 days. Not exactly extreme more more than my normal. Definitely a minor self medication. Now it appears there is info out says alcohol is carcinogenic and that is a new one on me.

And now I am spacing out and have not much more.

Earlier today I was writing out a worry inventory. There are just too many big and small things that I worry about all at once and if takes up all my cognitive space like worry hoarding. I hate the word hoarding because I've come to loathe hoarding.

Had a book at the Narcissist's place "Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist" by Margalis Fjelstad. I had to throw it into the garbage dumpster yesterday on my way out. If I had left it laying around it would just give them some kind of ammunition maybe. Who knows not something I want to find out.

So I walked into a thirft store today didn't get anything but I saw a book with the title Garlic Is Life by Chester Aaron. It looked like an easy to read micro-.... well maybe not a micro history but along that line. Maybe "Object Studies" is that genre. And then a shelf of self help and a book in front that said something about being controlling. And I wonder if I am controlling as like a reaction to being around a controlling person who feeds on antagonism.

It's only 7:00 pm it feels dark or late yeah both.

99

Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Farm Journal - 2025

« Last post by Hopalong on February 07, 2026, 09:09:23 PM »

Amber, how are your eyes?
How is the rest of you?

I'm sorry this has been slow healing; hope the sinuses insights will bring relief.

Hoping y'll are still cozy. It was shockingly cold here when I was out and about today.
Maybe you and B and kitties are doing living warm blankets stuff together.

hugs
Hops

100

Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Friendship Moments: good or bad

« Last post by Hopalong on February 06, 2026, 05:02:08 PM »

I led the Covenant Group last night on Friendship; used this as an opening reading:

Alone by Maya Angelou
[Excerpt]

“Lying, thinking
Last night
How to find my soul a home
Where water is not thirsty
And bread loaf is not stone
I came up with one thing
And I don’t believe I’m wrong
That nobody,
But nobody
Can make it out here alone.”

Thank you, VESMBers, for helping me understand this.

big hugs,
Hops