Feeling like the last resort.............................

[BonesMS]

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[Twoapenny]

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Thanks Bones   ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Bones))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

I'm going to ramble a bit now because thoughts keep mooching around in my head and I'm not making proper sense of them yet.  But some of you might identify with some of it?

I had a really nice afternoon yesterday with some people I don't know very well!  What struck me when I was thinking about it last night was that they were very ordinary.  I don't think I usually do ordinary?  I tend to focus, I think, on people who aren't ordinary and I either think they're amazing or I think they're awful.  I don't seem to really have a middle ground of 'yep, that person's nice, goes on about such and such a bit but that's fine'.  So I think I need to keep that in mind and work on it a bit.  Ordinary - chit chat about day to day stuff, kids, weather, jobs etc and it doesn't matter if there's no big earthquake type feeling attached to someone - that's what ordinary is.  I think?

The other thing that struck me is how I spend a lot more time thinking about people who don't contact me than people who do.  I really need to shift my thinking on that one because that is just daft and that really is a case of me giving my brain a good talking to and not letting it just do what it likes!

I also realised that I've really been judging myself on how popular I am (or not) and what sort of person that makes me.  I feel like lots of friends means I'm okay and not many means there's something wrong with me.  Obviously that's silly so I need to work on that as well.

Anyway, that's all my rambling for now, thanks for giving me the space to ramble on!

[BonesMS]

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[Gaining Strength]

Twoapenny - do you think the people who call you during the week are calling married friends on the weekends?  Being single I find that true so often.  Last weekend a friend who I haven't seen much of asked if my child and I could get together for dinner with her child and her.  Then late in the afternoon she texted me and said her husband had changed his plans and would be home so we would have to do it another time.

Another friend only asks us to do things if her husband isn't involved as well. When he is, she asks two parent families to join them.  I figured that out years ago but I have to say this past weekend (Memorial Day here) it was a very, very lonely time as my friends were all busy with cookouts and trips to the lake and beach with friends and not one invitation for us. 

I think I feel the sting especially because when I was married we always made an effort to include people who were single.

[Twoapenny]

Twoapenny - do you think the people who call you during the week are calling married friends on the weekends?  Being single I find that true so often.  Last weekend a friend who I haven't seen much of asked if my child and I could get together for dinner with her child and her.  Then late in the afternoon she texted me and said her husband had changed his plans and would be home so we would have to do it another time.

Another friend only asks us to do things if her husband isn't involved as well. When he is, she asks two parent families to join them.  I figured that out years ago but I have to say this past weekend (Memorial Day here) it was a very, very lonely time as my friends were all busy with cookouts and trips to the lake and beach with friends and not one invitation for us. 

I think I feel the sting especially because when I was married we always made an effort to include people who were single.

Oh gosh, GS, yes, definitely!  So many of my friends organise their lives around their husbands so there's time for me during the day when hubbie's at work but evenings and weekends are kept for them.  I completely understand that couples need and want time together but I feel that friends would want to see and speak to you whenever's mutually convenient whereas people who are filling time will do it when it suits them.  I'm like you, when I'm arranging things I always make sure people don't get left out but it seems not everyone is like that!

I did realise that I have made a rod for my own back though by being available during the day.  So I've stopped that this week and am only using the phone in the evening or at the weekend, it does feel better already.  Maybe just because of taking back a bit of control instead of feeling I'm just there for everyone else?

I'm sorry your friend let you down over that dinner.  I think it's rude to cancel a plan unless it's an emergency, I just wouldn't do that unless I really had to.  I find the 'special' days hard but it is getting easier as the years go on.  I hope that some more thoughtful people start to come your way

[Gaining Strength]

I hope that some more thoughtful people start to come your way.

You too Twoapenny.

[Twoapenny]

I hope that some more thoughtful people start to come your way.

You too Twoapenny.

Thanks, GS, I think it might be starting to happen!  Was invited out to a birthday meal last night.  Usually I can't do those sort of things because my friends go to places I can't afford.  But this particular person chose a very reasonably priced place that did a set menu so there was no working out who ate what (and paying for other people's food!) because everyone's food cost the same and people paid for their own drinks - perfect!  Most of the people there I hadn't met before so I was anxious and felt a little out of place but they were all nice, I had some nice chats and came away feeling very glad that I went.  It was a really nice evening.

So I'll keep hoping for more of the same for all of us, we all deserve nice people in our lives

[Hopalong]

HI Tupp,
I thought this was a huge insight:

I spend a lot more time thinking about people who don't contact me than people who do.

And also, that you tend to avoid ordinary folk.

I get this. I think it's one of the legacies of being raised by an Nparent. They are SO sparkly, have that edge of intensity, which even though unhealthy, on a cellular level is...exciting. And when one is smart, and imaginative...those sparkly people are just more interesting.

I've come to think of it as a very very old addiction, that I don't even recognize for what it is.

I have one Nish friend, who neglects me. Floods me with attention when she is in the mood, but the rest of the time...leaves me feeling lonely and uncared about. Yet -- I still at times yearn for her company. Even still invite her to things.

And, the couples thing. I find that hurtful too.

It bothers me that there's so much "sorting" to be done, before I find myself in healthy relationships. I think I am so instinctively attractive to some unhealthy people, that when I discover myself drawn to a healthy person, I usually find some unconscious way to neglect THEM. And so the cycle goes, until I have moments of clarity and snap into the now and what I genuinely need.

And that's to remember that if I drill into who I am, my own capacity for empathy and also imagination, and if I think of every single person I meet as a product of a family, a culture (I am a bit rabid about wanting to be conscious of the cultural soups we float in), and a history, and genes...then, I know I am capable of saying truthfully to myself, I have never met a boring human being. Every single person I meet, "ordinary" or not, is worthy of my interest, my compassion, and my attention...because I will listen to their story. I will listen with interest and when I do, they may even experience themselves as more interesting.

Doesn't always manifest for me to applaud about, but I do see this happen with people.

Even someone who steadfastly sticks to their self-perception of dullness, ordinariness, etc. -- that is a human story. And if I'm true to who I want to be, even that story, can be a refrain in a character in my life that I have something to learn from.

Don't know if that makes any sense, but just passing thoughts on an amazing day. I'm huddled in bed with my laptop, awaiting a work friend who's going to install a dog door. Big event! I look forward to my little dog's delight in being able to go outside whenever she pleases. (It's hopeless to dream that she might become a deer rouster, but that's the hope...)

love
Hops

[sea storm]

What a great thread. Really strikes home... wanting to connect with people in a meaningful and real way but feeling unable to. It just doesn't seem to work sometimes.
Yesterday I went to visit a friend with cancer.  She is taking chemo. We sat in her backyard on her swing and i gave her a foot massage. I felt goofy sort of asking her if she would like one and she shyly agreed. She liked it and just relaxed and we talked. Another friend was there and often it is a weird dynamic with the three of us. The other friend talked about having a hard time giving emotionally as she is better at giving help in a concrete way.  I found myself not liking her. I can be such a judgemental twerp.
What i am saying is that I think having friends means accepting them for who they are and I am so insecure that I flip into judgement too quickly.
Also I think being a single older women is a marginalized place. I have given up on married people and vice versa. That only works for very short periods and I would rather not keep subjecting myself to that exclusionary experience.
It is definitely difficult to be single, alone and sixty. It seems to be difficult to be married too. Culturally, I don't think our society promotes close bonds between people. If we didn't have tv and movies it would not work or maybe it would have to change. i know I would be extremely lonely without tv.

Sea storm

[Twoapenny]

HI Tupp,
I thought this was a huge insight:

I spend a lot more time thinking about people who don't contact me than people who do.

And also, that you tend to avoid ordinary folk.

I get this. I think it's one of the legacies of being raised by an Nparent. They are SO sparkly, have that edge of intensity, which even though unhealthy, on a cellular level is...exciting. And when one is smart, and imaginative...those sparkly people are just more interesting.

I've come to think of it as a very very old addiction, that I don't even recognize for what it is.

I have one Nish friend, who neglects me. Floods me with attention when she is in the mood, but the rest of the time...leaves me feeling lonely and uncared about. Yet -- I still at times yearn for her company. Even still invite her to things.

And, the couples thing. I find that hurtful too.

It bothers me that there's so much "sorting" to be done, before I find myself in healthy relationships. I think I am so instinctively attractive to some unhealthy people, that when I discover myself drawn to a healthy person, I usually find some unconscious way to neglect THEM. And so the cycle goes, until I have moments of clarity and snap into the now and what I genuinely need.

And that's to remember that if I drill into who I am, my own capacity for empathy and also imagination, and if I think of every single person I meet as a product of a family, a culture (I am a bit rabid about wanting to be conscious of the cultural soups we float in), and a history, and genes...then, I know I am capable of saying truthfully to myself, I have never met a boring human being. Every single person I meet, "ordinary" or not, is worthy of my interest, my compassion, and my attention...because I will listen to their story. I will listen with interest and when I do, they may even experience themselves as more interesting.

Doesn't always manifest for me to applaud about, but I do see this happen with people.

Even someone who steadfastly sticks to their self-perception of dullness, ordinariness, etc. -- that is a human story. And if I'm true to who I want to be, even that story, can be a refrain in a character in my life that I have something to learn from.

Don't know if that makes any sense, but just passing thoughts on an amazing day. I'm huddled in bed with my laptop, awaiting a work friend who's going to install a dog door. Big event! I look forward to my little dog's delight in being able to go outside whenever she pleases. (It's hopeless to dream that she might become a deer rouster, but that's the hope...)

love
Hops

Hops, thank you so much for this, it made a huge amount of sense and has really helped.  I had to read it a few times and then think it over for a while because it was really a lightbulb moment for me.

You have summed up the ordinariness thing so entirely and yet I'd not realised it my whole life.  When I look back (and it seems so obvious now and it never has before!) I can see that I have had one relationship after another - whether family, friend or boyfriend - that has made me feel incredibly wanted and special, incredibly important.  Lots of contact, lots of phone calls, lots of wild nights out and outgrageous, extravagant things.  What I can see has happened since I had my son is that obviously I've not been able to do the wild and crazy stuff, or be available when it suits other people and that I have really needed support myself.  Which hasn't happened because most of the people I know don't do 'ordinary', so sitting in with me on a Friday night doesn't cut the mustard.

I also realised (and this came about after an evening out at the weekend) that I feel that everything that comes out of my mouth has to be witty and insightful and full of wisdom and that I ought to know everything about everything otherwise I've no right to speak.  And so I find it difficult to just have a conversation about not much at all, but of course, that's how all relationships ought to start, I don't want the Ndrama of an entire life story the minute you speak to someone or being asked personal and private questions about my life by people who just want titilation and excitement.

I've also realised that at some of the groups I go to (mostly to do with my son) I've been monopolised by the 'popular' ones and there are other people there - quieter and more reticent I suppose - who I've never really had a chat with.  And it may be that they are much nicer and healthier people to get to know.

So..........my mission now is to try and chat to people who aren't leaping out and grabbing my attention - to look around for the quieter, less limelight grabbing ones and see if that makes a difference.  I'm quite excited!  Thank you so much for what you wrote, it has really helped.