Forgiveness, NC and making progress

[Ales2]

Does anyone have any experience with forgiveness? Anyone written a letter or had a conversation/confrontation with the N? Did it work/help/ backfire/ end things?

I've been thinking that my "stuckness" is coming from a place of anger, resentment, bitterness and blame. I don't want to get stuck here - it sucks here. I want to go to on to being a loving, kind, open, warm person, ready to move on and accept healthier relationships into my life (especially my love life).
But, in forgiving, I want it to be clear -forgive yes, contact/involvement into my life - NO.  I forgave once along time ago and all that did was sweep the crud under the rug for it to come up 20 years later. That won't happen this time.

Any thoughts on this?

[Izzy_*now*]

Hi Ales,

Do you mean forgiveness from the N?

If so, don't expect it. I hear that never happens. Oh, I had the occasional 'I'm sorry' thrown at me but it was meaningless and rather sarcastic!  The N is never wrong, eh? i just posted to seastorm that getting one's act together and living well is the best revenge, and living well, to me, does not mean contacting the N to say how well you are doing without him/her, as that is just more contact and supply with/for that person.

Does that help? I believe that belabouring any issues with an N is just a no-win situation.

good Luck
Izzy

[Ales2]

Hi Izzy = thanks for the comments. I agree moving on can contribute to the Ns supply...I meant that I am supposed to forgive her so that I am not eaten up with anger resentment and bitterness.   

[JustKathy]

Well, this is going to make me sound like a cold-hearted b!tch, but I can't and WON'T forgive my NM, or my co-F for that matter. As far as I'm concerned, not only is it okay to be angry, but it's my right to be angry. Everyone is different, but I know that I would hate myself more if I forgave them for a lifetime of pain. I couldn't live with myself if I let them off the hook, so to speak. Maybe it's because I've been NC for several years now. As time goes on, I've become more focused on moving forward to a new life that is free of my dysfunctional mess of a family.

I think I was able to reach that acceptance after things boiled to a head this last year. Before that, I had been clinging to the belief that my co-father loved me but couldn't defend me because he was brainwashed by M. I forgave him over and over for his hurtful actions, making excuses for him every step of the way. Then last summer my NM was diagnosed with "terminal cancer." My father called to tell me I had been removed from the will, with everything going to my brother (the GC), at M's insistence. He told me, "I had no say in it. You know how your mother is." I had always known in my heart that the GC would be sole heir, and managed to forgive him AGAIN for that. I didn't care about their money. I had only ever wanted one thing, my father's Emmy, which he had promised to me. I told him I would accept being disinherited because I would still have his Emmy to remember him by. That's when he told me that NM had also given the Emmy to my brother. It wasn't even hers to give away, but "You know how your mother is."

At that point I decided to go NC with the entire family, and end it right there. For some reason, that huge revelation about my father - finally realizing that the entire family was a lost cause - it was very liberating. They can't hurt me any more. All the pain is behind me. I won't permit them to ever hurt me again. I guess I've chosen acceptance over forgiveness. I can accept that I was dealt a bad hand, but I won't forgive them. What they did was not a mistake. It was willful and intentional child abuse. They get no compassion from me.

All that said, some people need to forgive in order to move on. Many families of murder victims are able to forgive the killer who took their loved one(s) from them. Other families of murder victims need to witness the execution before they can have closure. We all find closure in different ways.

Have you talked to a therapist about this? A therapist can't and shouldn't tell you what to do, but should at least be able to offer you some guidance so that you can make the right decision.

Hope this works out for you, whatever you decide. It's bad enough that they torment us all of our lives, even worse that they still torment us after going NC.

[Ales2]

Hi Kathy - Thanks for your response. I have to second everything you say - especially about it being willful and intentional child abuse.  I could also go through life NOT forgiving my NM because I did forgive her for her "shortcomings" 20 years ago, ( at the time, I did not know she was an N until a year ago) that kept her in my life, where she doesn't belong and just ensured that my problems continued and even got worse. So, there are plenty of reasons not to forgive and move forward anyway.

But there is part of me that just wants to move on and wonder if finding a way to forgive might be a way out of my misery. I could be wrong of course. I will be talking with someone about it later this week.

And, I really dislike the comparison in forgiving murderers - not your comparison, but the societal one that says "if Sally can forgive John for murdering Bill, you can forgive your mother for (fill in the blank)". Problem I have with that - is its much easier to forgive loss when its gone, completely gone, especially at the hands of a depraved individual. But to forgive someone in close proximity, who supposedly loves you,  hurts you anyway, could hurt you or your husband or your child again is very different. It steals our ability to trust in people closest to us, which means we are never safe when someone says they love us. 

So, thanks so much for your input, all very good points. Hope things continue to be good for you. All the best to you.

[Logy]

I think JustKathy has raised some valid points.  Like her I went through years thinking my co-Dad, even though he had to live with her and refused to confront her in support of me, would at least listen to me.  I learned also that I cannot even expect that.  He tells me to defend my sister against NM and then when I get abused my NM in front of him, he turns a cold shoulder.  My sister and I have just, plain, had it!!!  So now they are playing the "we're old, we won't be around forever, what have we done to alienate you two?"  My sister and I have told them, individually and together, why we feel abused.  They have conveniently forgotten, and are now playing the "we're old, we're weak".  I can guarantee if we rehashed it again with them, we would be treated the same way we have been treated since we were born.

So for me, No Forgiveness.  I am LC, live my own life, and say NO when they try to draw me in.  I'm fortunate in that they do not rise to some of the horrible stalking techniques others here are suffering with.  However, my daughter is an adult now.  My sister still has young children.  They are most adept at manipulating us when their grandchildren are involved.  So my sister is still suffering.  And now NM and co-dad are trying to pull me into the manipulation of my sister.  When I get the emails about how "hurt we are with Sis's behavior", I ignore them and then just support my sister.  Doesn't do me OR my sister any good when I get pulled into it.

Sick stuff.

[Butterfly]

From my experience, confrontations and letters do not work with an N at all.  Ns cannot admit they do anything wrong and, therefore, cannot be truly sorry.  So, any attempt at letter confrontation is used against the daughter and will be shown to others with nasty comments like:  "See how crazy she is.", "I just don't know what in the world I have ever done to deserve such a letter."  "Can you imagine a daughter doing such a horrible thing?"  "She has such an imagination."  An N will not accept responsibility for their actions, just deny, lie, gaslight, etc. 

My attempts at confrontation, approximately three or four, only served to increase the abuse against me.  Never once was there a positive result.  I learned that NC is the only way for me to move on.  Letters, offerings of forgiveness, etc. are for rational, honest people.  My experience with Ns has taught me that offering letters of explanation or forgiveness to them is akin to offering forgiveness to a shark that is chewing on your leg. 

[Logy]

Yes, Butterfly,
Letters, emails, confrontations do nothing other than make You feel bad.  I ignore all emails I get, don't get letters, and gave up confronting NM long ago.  She doesn't confront me anymore, because, After All, SHE has done nothing wrong.   All I get from her and co-dad is "we didn't do anything to deserve this treatment.  PLEASE tell us what we did."  I know if I told them what they did I would just get mounds of abuse heaped on me.

[Hopalong]

The only times forgiveness has worked for me have been when it had literally nothing to do with the other person.
It was only about giving me peace within myself because I was sickened by my resentment and bitter feelings.

I would figure it out very very very slowly and usually, in a space where I felt safe and welcome and supported (for me, sitting in the pew in a UU church I've adopted intentionally--and for about 30 years now--as my extended PHamily) ....

I would feel it lift, thinking about a particular person (Ns, mainly). It would just be...I don't have this weight in my chest any more. I'm no longer afraid of their capacity to hurt me. I am forgiving them for myself. It frees me. (No N ever asked me to forgive them, of course.)

With my Nmother, it didn't fully happen until she was in her 90s. I didn't have a confrontation with her, even a benevolent one to say "I have forgiven you". I just managed with a great deal of help, to get there. And it eased me.

She stayed herself. It made it easier for me to endure the last years, though. I just wasn't expecting anything different, I accepted what had happened had happened, and I just stayed in the present. She was very old. I saw her as a child again. I had compassion (not from virtue, believe me...it felt miraculous to me that it became my setpoint witih her).

One thing that influenced me a lot was a sermon where he talked about how sometimes, forgiveness also means reconciliation. But other times, where there is injury or danger to you in interacting with the other--reconciliation is NOT part of it. And that's okay. If you want to do it, you do it for your own inner peace.

That's what helped me really get that it had nothing to do with the other person. It was something I really, really wanted to do for myself because not to, felt so toxic to me.

That PERSON used to feel toxic to me. After a while, I recognized it was my attachment to them (even my attachment to fantasies of confrontation, finally hearing an apology, making some gesture that "made them see" my hurts, etc.) -- all of that, and most especially all the TIME I spent thinking about them...was my attachment.

I think I had to release myself and release them and do all of that together somehow, before I felt the relief of forgiving.

All that said, I don't think forgiveness should be a SHOULD. That makes it all the more unlikely.
And sometimes maybe it's just never going to happen.

love,
Hops