Excluded From NM's Claims She Has Cancer

[sfalken]

My divorce situation is about as good as it can be, given the circumstances. My older children live about 50% of the time with my wife and I, but when they are with their mom during the school year, it's not too bad, because she lives around the corner with their stepdad. Being so close, we have a weekly midweek dinner together at our house when they are with her.

Last week, we were eating dinner together, and my 13yr old daughter leaned over to me and said 'Dad, I know about grandma... mom told me'. I scratched my head - and I didnt know what to say so I said 'you know WHAT about grandma??' Her answer? 'mom told me she has cancer dad'.

Ah yes. Now, we play the game Nmom's mom - my grandmother - played with my uncle. The old 'make sure no one tells our bad son that I am sick and/or in the hospital, and wait and see if he calls us - but either way hes no good' trick.

I've seen it many a time.

That said, I did a little digging after hearing this from my daughter, and from three different people, I heard 3 different stories. First I called my ex wife, who said my mother called her crying, and told her that she would have a partial mastectomy with lymph nodes removed, and chemotherapy.

The second story, was from a reliable friend - the only friend or family left from my entire life before my parents began raging at me - who still talks to me. Her story was that my mother's doctors are optimistic, and that it's a small lump in her breast which can be removed or shrunk with pills.

And the third story. After one day, I assume my ex wife had explained to my co-dad that I knew, and was not pleased that they excluded me from knowing. I received a call from my Co-dad, who seemed on edge and ready to fight. But he managed to say ' I hear you want to hear this from me' a few times, and after I said, ok and did not return fire, he proceeded to tell me that they know nothing and that the doctors arent sure what is happening, and that that is why they didnt include me.

I go with story number 2.

The next day, Nmom sent me a text, asking me to set aside the past, because her health was failing and she loves and misses me and the children, and needs us. (specifically left my wife out) I responded, and reminded her that she ignored the last attempts we made for her to see the children, to be with other people's children instead, and that the lat time we spoke, I tried to offer a chance to have dinner at a restaurant, but that she raged so much that I had to end the call. 'I dont know what you're after, mother'

15 minutes later, a next text from my father telling me that he wants to lessen the stress on 'his wife', and that he would like me to stop upsetting her. He wants my help to not 'stress his wife out'.

Then my aunt, an information carrier with a nice personality called me, I presume to gather information for Nmom, but nothing came of it.

And so it goes. It is hard to grasp at times, even after all of these years of being aware.

I don't really know how to feel. I just feel kind of hollow about it all. Shes a liar, and has been from day one - but on the chance that it is not a lie, I guess that, if they dont want me to know, I have to accept that, and I will have to try to avoid their 'reindeer games'. The old man has proven once again that he is an ______, and cares only for his queen - and that I am an outsider.


What a mess.

[JustKathy]

O.M.G. This is exactly what happened with my own NM's "cancer," inoperable lung cancer, with a prognosis of four weeks to live. That was four years ago. It now looks like she's either faking it completely, or had a treatable cancer that was, well, treated.

I went through the same dramatics. First, hearing it second-hand from my sister and Co-Father. Both gave me the story story about easing stress on her since she was in her final days, my F especially laying it on thick, doing whatever was necessary to protect his queen. Then came the attempts at contact from NM herself, letters designed at guilting me to death. This was followed by a package containing about $50 of cheap costume jewelry and a letter (complete with tear stains) saying that she was giving the only things of value she had to her favourite daughter, and that she would always love me despite all of the horrible things I had done to hurt her. (Six months after this terminal diagnosis she attended a wedding in which she was photographed in beautiful dangling diamond earrings).

I wish I had advice for you. Her cancer could be real, or it could be a lie. It's impossible to know, at least not right now. In the meantime, I know how incredibly difficult this is to process. When my Co-F made the initial call, he was in tears, and it was all so convincing. I, too, went through the gamut of emotions. I didn't know how to feel. Part of me felt relief that I would soon be free of her, while my moral side tugged at me and said that she was my mother, and that I should grieve regardless of the things she had done. Four years later, I'm just PISSED. Angry that I got played. So much so that when I made a long distance move last year I unplugged the phone and left no forwarding address. Still, she managed to track me down and send her annual holiday guilt letter. I have to tell you, in all honesty, if she dies tomorrow I'm throwing a party. Faking cancer for attention is about as low as one can go. I sure hope that isn't the case with your NM, but I'd definitely keep an ear to the ground for any clues that point to this being a case of extreme over-exaggeration.

Ugh. I SO feel for you. As for what to feel, whatever your feelings are, good or bad, they're okay. There is no shame in feeling relief over the news that the parent who abused you may soon be departing this earth. None at all.

[sfalken]

In some way, I think this might qualify as a separate post - but I'll start here.

First - thank you for responding. It is so validating to know that I am not alone - and every time someone replies to one of my posts here with similar experiences, it is such a relief. I think she's exaggerating, at the least - and with cancer, as you said - in my opinion you cannot go lower than faking a worse cancerous condition.

Yesterday I did something that I've wanted to do for a long time. I created a timeline - of my entire life - starting with the day I was born, leading up to and including yesterday. On the timeline I detailed all of the major events and 'dark periods' I could think of, with specific information about each and an approximate time or time frame. For my younger life, I used larger, broader descriptions to explain the phases of life I experienced with NM and CoF. I was as descriptive as I could possibly be.

From that timeline, I can draw some conclusions. A couple are worth noting here..

First - it never really struck me, but there was a change when I was a child, around the time I transitioned from a child, to a teen. As a child, I 'took' my mother's constant lying and weird behavior, and looked to my father to save me from her antics regularly - which, sometimes he would, sometimes not. Often he would tell me to 'let it go in one ear, and out the other'. As a teenager - probably around 14, I began calling her out on her lies and exaggerations all of the time. I know that there are some children in these situations that are more passive - but I am the defiant child - that's how I was and I am still wired. I despise her lies. What I noticed - was that it was around that age - 14 or so - that she started trying to drive a wedge between my father and I, and that, given some of the events that took place - he took the bait over the years that followed. By the time I left home, she was threatening to assault me, and he told her "dont do it... hes not worth it...". Her ultimate goal, and years of her work achieved. And so I left.

Second, as an adult, what I noticed, is that (although sometimes I have my feelings of guilt now, when I mourn the family I dont have any longer) there never really was a time where things were 'good' for any length of time. There were a couple of small calm periods, - which is what I think of when I think of better times - but those periods were still peppered with NM's rages and other dysfunction, and the rest of the time it was always turmoil - before and after each - for years and years. From 18 until 38.

I thought for a while on it - and I think.. it may be the 'lottery effect'. In a community college psychology course years ago, I remember the professor talking about women who go back to abusive men - and he called it the 'lottery effect'. She pulls the lever over and over, and once in a while, the result is good, although 98% of the time, the result is bad - so she keeps going back, drunk with the possibility of that one time, where the lever will give a positive result.

Could it be, that I too have a bit of a large, overall lottery effect taking place? Could we (children of N/Co parents) all? That is after all the way they operate on a smaller scale, quite often. Is it part of the Narcissistic/Co/Borderline Modis Operandi - to allow a couple of periods of relative calm - to pad the minds of their victims, should it ever be required? I don't know - just speculating. I'm sure if its purposeful at all, it's still not a conscious decision. It would be more a part of their subconscious nature. They arent that smart up front.

I think that I will keep the timeline handy, and use it to remind myself, when I get sad about the state of things now. Things were never really good. They were always dysfunctional. Maybe with something tangible to look at, it will eventually sink in, and my sadness at times will subside - or at least lessen. It is a valuable tool.

I encourage everyone here to create a timeline, and to look at it for what it is, and what your experience with your N for what it truly was. No illusions. Facts.

Facts can be quite enlightening.

[JustKathy]

First - it never really struck me, but there was a change when I was a child, around the time I transitioned from a child, to a teen. As a child, I 'took' my mother's constant lying and weird behavior, and looked to my father to save me from her antics regularly - which, sometimes he would, sometimes not. Often he would tell me to 'let it go in one ear, and out the other'. As a teenager - probably around 14, I began calling her out on her lies and exaggerations all of the time. I know that there are some children in these situations that are more passive - but I am the defiant child - that's how I was and I am still wired. I despise her lies. What I noticed - was that it was around that age - 14 or so - that she started trying to drive a wedge between my father and I, and that, given some of the events that took place - he took the bait over the years that followed. By the time I left home, she was threatening to assault me, and he told her "dont do it... hes not worth it...". Her ultimate goal, and years of her work achieved. And so I left.

This sounds as if I wrote it myself. It is EXACTLY what I experienced. Looking back, I was also very passive as a child and never questioned her abuse. I suppose I thought that all mommies were like that. But once I hit puberty, around the age of 14, I became a rebellious teen who would no longer play her games. Unlike my brother and sister, who sat back and complied with her wishes, I fought back. She went off the rails because she could no longer control me, and like you, dragged my father into it by telling him lies about me. She told him that I was using drugs, had been busted by the school, and so on. And dammit, he believed every word of it. He never second guessed her over-the-top stories, and never even tried to protect his daughter. I left home the day I turned 18, even though I was still in High School. I moved in with a friend and somehow managed to graduate despite all the turmoil.

I agree that that it's a good idea to make a timeline. I started jotting down thoughts recently, sort of like writing a memoir, but for my own purposes. It's dragging up a lot of memories of early childhood, but it's also giving me a lot of insight into their behaviour. I'll have to start a thread at some point with my findings. There are a lot of things that happened in very early childhood (as far back as I have memories) that had been overshadowed by the teen years, which were so unbearable. Yep, they definitely don't want us to grow up. It means losing control, and they can't allow that.

[Meh]

You are not alone. My mother milked a breast biopsy for months and months and months. It was never a high risk situation. Hard because normally one would want to give some concern and care but its so twisted up with these relationships. I want to love them but I don't want to. They have malignant hearts.

[JustKathy]

Ugh! A biopsy? It's all about the drama with them. The tip-off for me came when my Aunt (NM's older sister), who is a doctor, told some other family members that NM was being a "drama queen." My Aunt never says a cross word about anyone, so to hear that coming from her was pretty telling. I think that if someone outside of the FOO, like another relative, friend, or neighbor acts as if the N's illness isn't serious, then it probably isn't. Never take the word of the co-spouse or the golden child. See what a more objective source has to say (sfalken, in your case that family friend). Those are the ones to believe.

[sKePTiKal]

I want to love them but I don't want to.

This is a very, very good point and so simply describes the agony of the position one finds oneself in.

The "trick" is to find a way to love them, without giving up one's boundaries... protecting oneself from the depredations involved in having the relationship (which sometimes does have to be NC... but sometimes does shift around to LC)... and to realize that they can't - for whatever reason - allow the control-delusion-I'm always right mask to come down long enough - to LET YOU love them.

It's easier for me to accept that - for whatever reason - my mom simply "can't" be someone who operates at that level, have that kind of relationship... because it frees me then... to find a way to love her differently; along the lines of "love your enemies".

On the good days, anyway.

[Hopalong]

Sheeesh. The old cry-wolf medical drama, and it always, anyway, regardless, leaves the Compassionate Listenee in a tough spot.
My Mom didn't dramatize specific health complaints. But the fact of aging -- we had SO many "serious sit-down conversations"
about how she was getting older now (and therefore one more LAST "last trip" to Europe was coming) ... She started this in her 60s
and lived to be 98!

Very solid reminder to me to never, ever try to get my D's attention that way. I am plenty firm on not dumping my wellbeing
on her as I get older. Systems in place to take care of myself or have my own network of support. If she turns up and we are
newly family by then, lovely. But I am not planning for it. She has her own wellness and survival to attend to.

I found my mother's OBSESSION with talking about who-gets-what to be utterly draining and even worse than the "I'm old,
now let's be sad about that together" kinds of talks. I understand now, but didn't always, that she was using those talks about the
stuff just because she wanted Nsupply (attention). That poor woman's appetite for attention, if it were food, would have
landed her a circus-worthy physique.

As hindsight is soooo 20-20, I wonder if with a parent who's muttering/hinting/manipulating around "health news", one
(unlike me, but a generic healthy "one") could respond with:

--wondering (briefly) if it's just attention seeking (or is there some fear behind it or whatever)
--regular but TIMED (for your own benefit) phone calls to acknowledge their desire for connection (unless LC or NC is in place)
--lots of practice intentionally changing the subject

As Mom did get very old, I got better at subject changes. What worked was to keep my tone courteous
and neither cold nor "hyper-attentive". When I started achieving some peace within myself (instead of all-reaction, all-the-time--
which was what ruled me for many years), I found it easier to just say whatever I wanted to say that was pleasant for ME to
focus on. Such as:

I just saw the loveliest bird in my bird feeder. I think it was a ____.
You know, I'm enjoying using coconut oil on my skin. Feels good.
I'm about to take a walk, wonder if it's still sunny out.

(I think if there was a theme I blundered into that was more effective than other things I'd tried to use to get through
conversations w/her less ruffled, it was:

--mention something that is nature, or related to the natural world (nothing to argue about, it just IS)
--mention something that is about the present moment (no yesterday, no tomorrow)

Nature. Present moment. Those helped me. They were accidental guidelines but I did find my responses evolving that way.

(IF one is talking to the Nrelative at all....). And thanks to all the gods of all the faiths I no longer have either my mother
nor my brother in my life.

hugs
Hops

[sfalken]

And now, there are two days left until NM's surgery. She finally wrote me an email last week to let me know, after I had heard it from a number of others.

My aunt (her sister) called me last week, and called me again tonight. I did not answer - but her voicemail was what I thought it would be. NM is using her to call me. To lay guilt.

She told me that I should call NM tomorrow. That I should tell NM that I love her. That the situation with my parents has to be worked out. My answer to all of her statements is 'no, I do not have to, no, I don't feel that way, and no, it does not'.

My grandfather on my dad's side used to walk around saying something, and I now see some wisdom in it.  He would always say 'Know one thing boy? A chicken ain't nothing but a bird..' - and, as goofy as it sounds, he was right. It is, what it is. Nothing more, and in this case, I can't fix it.

When others call me to tell me what the queen has prescribed for me to do, all it makes me want to do, is the opposite. I dig my heels into the ground like a steinbock.

I think my wife believes I should call my mother to avoid some kind of self directed guilt, should something go wrong, but I'm not sure.

I guess I take my chances.

My ancestors didn't send the king a card on his birthday after they declared independence. Why should I send one to the queen.

[BonesMS]

And now, there are two days left until NM's surgery. She finally wrote me an email last week to let me know, after I had heard it from a number of others.

My aunt (her sister) called me last week, and called me again tonight. I did not answer - but her voicemail was what I thought it would be. NM is using her to call me. To lay guilt.

She told me that I should call NM tomorrow. That I should tell NM that I love her. That the situation with my parents has to be worked out. My answer to all of her statements is 'no, I do not have to, no, I don't feel that way, and no, it does not'.

My grandfather on my dad's side used to walk around saying something, and I now see some wisdom in it.  He would always say 'Know one thing boy? A chicken ain't nothing but a bird..' - and, as goofy as it sounds, he was right. It is, what it is. Nothing more, and in this case, I can't fix it.

When others call me to tell me what the queen has prescribed for me to do, all it makes me want to do, is the opposite. I dig my heels into the ground like a steinbock.

I think my wife believes I should call my mother to avoid some kind of self directed guilt, should something go wrong, but I'm not sure.

I guess I take my chances.

My ancestors didn't send the king a card on his birthday after they declared independence. Why should I send one to the queen.

AMEN!

[sKePTiKal]

She told me that I should call NM tomorrow. That I should tell NM that I love her. That the situation with my parents has to be worked out.

Uh... 'scuse me? Where was this Aunt when NM was being vile to you? Insisting that things be worked out? Why should this requirement only apply in NM's interest? Did she ever validate that you have a good reason for keeping your distance? And, I doubt that you're 10 yrs old and need help deciding what the "right thing" for you to do is... nor are you unable to see what feelings you might have as a consequence of your decisions.

Boundaries - 101.

NO ONE can tell you what you feel, what you should feel, or give you the implied message that you are "less than" or somehow in error for what you feel. A feeling, in and of itself, does not predict behavior... you aren't a slave to your feelings and have the ability to choose to act in any fashion you want - for whatever reasons you want. The rules of etiquette do not require you to share your feelings with anyone; not an interpersonal obligation. You are also, conversely, free to share those feelings with anyone you choose to. However, I've found it helps if I reserve that sharing for relationships where there's a pretty high level of mutual respect and trust.

Besides - a lot of my feelings are politically incorrect in this day/age - but they're still my feelings. I guess it can kinda feel like one is under siege sometimes (Remember the Alamo!), when you choose to be true to yourself -- instead of trying to please other people, who are never pleased.

[JustKathy]

UGH! This is exactly how it went down with me and my "cancer stricken" NM, only it was my co-father giving me the instructions. He called and pleaded with me to do something to show that I love her, to call her, or at the very least send a card. I really believed that she was dying, and decided to send the damn card just to make my father happy. Well, four years later, and she's not dead. She played me. I'll bet she burst out laughing when she received that card. Major victory! She managed to manipulate me one more time, even though I was NC. Well, fool me once ....

My ancestors didn't send the king a card on his birthday after they declared independence. Why should I send one to the queen.

Bingo! Yes! Bottom line, don't do anything that you don't want to do, and don't do it to please someone else. If your heart says that the Queen doesn't deserve a card, then that's that. Follow your heart, and follow your gut instincts. They won't fail you.

[sfalken]

Despite 11th hour calls from my aunt - dramatically asking me to 'find it in my heart' to call my mother 'if only for her' before NM's surgery, I did not.

I sent my aunt a simple text to tell her that I had already responded to an email from my mother a week before - wishing NM well, and asking NM for CoF to let us know how it goes. My aunt of course had no idea that I had had any correspondence with NM. NM would never let on that I make any effort. She derives supply from smearing me at every turn, and letting on that I responded, well, would rob her of her supply.

Of course, the surgery was yesterday, and nobody called, or otherwise let me know anything, which, ok, maybe I shouldn't care anymore, but I'm human.

I called the hospital in the afternoon and they said that there was a nurse in her room. When they transferred me, I dropped the call so as not to become part of the drama, or to be sucked into a conversation with one of her lackeys who may have been there.

They dont give rooms to people who dont make it through surgeries, right?

Well anyhow.. Cirque du Soleil this weekend with my wife and youngest, and a little R&R hopefully.

[JustKathy]

They dont give rooms to people who dont make it through surgeries, right?

Not rooms with nurses and phones, anyway.