Relationship/s

[lighter]

Hops:

I misunderstood the silencio thing... .thought it was the T who liked it.  Sorry. 

I do think that's cute, but only between you and M.  In mixed company, I doubt he'll share that smile in the same way, when he's struggling, IMO.

About your "snotty" look.  I've been paying attention to my facial expressions late, with one person in particular, and I have a flash of emotion take over my expression that I was completely surprised by. 

Don't get defensive.  Try to pay attention to your expression, as a matter of curiosity, and see what you catch.  Sometimes our faced DO things we're not aware of, IME.  I think I'd want to provide clarity, certainly AND at the same time I think it sucks that women are judged "bitchy" every time we have a less than happy emotion cross our faces.  During the trials I was in trouble for it all
the
time. Even with my own team of advocates.  My frustration at the injustice.  At the crazy made up stories.  At my distress, coming out of my nervous system but having to PERFORM in public all the time, with everyone judging me.  I just honestly had to be made aware of what my face and demeanor WAS so I could stop sabotaging myself in that way.  I find men and women punish us for looking generally bitchy, as defined in this culture.  It can be fear, distress, frustration, ongoing abuse and voicelessness and it's judged the same way, which is FRUSTRATING too, IME. 

I love that M bought into the concept of code word.  I think that's wise, and smart, and necessary.  Good on'ya and T to gain his compliance.  That's half the battle, I think.  Staying engaged, and drive to learn is the next part. 

Lighter

[Hopalong]

I'm totally into RBF, but inasmuch as I couldn't SEE my own face at the moment, I think it was odd of the T to make a judgey comment like that.

It is my only hesitation about choosing her. Sometimes something like that hints at underlying bias. Who knows? She may not like women who express themselves strongly, or have unconscious anti-women bias. Many many women do. Or it may just have been a poor choice of words. I think it was.

Overall though, I did like her and found her skillful. We'll see. We're meeting with another one in a couple weeks and I appreciate the chance to make choices. Not just go with the first meeting, which was still cathartic and helpful.

I've just been on the receiving end of bad counseling a couple times in my life, so I'm cautious. She may be the right one, or not. I'm actually going to ask her about that comment and explain to her why I didn't like it, and just see what she says. To avoid dragging M into it, I might just call and leave that concern on her voicemail, and see if she responds. I will share with M that I'm doing that, in case she pulls the "we have to have another full session before you say anything more..." thing.

Hops

[lighter]

ACK bad Ts!  That is SO TRUE, Hops.

I think you should ask this T about her comment, when M's not listening.

Once a Doc was sending me messages, via her face, regarding youngest dd, and it drove me nuts till I told her I was overtly concerned about what those faces MIGHT MEAN.  She wasn't even aware she was doing that, and said she didn't mean to set off alarm bells.

Ask.  You might find yourself surprised by the answer.

Lighter

[Hopalong]

I'm actually going to ask

Yup. That's my plan.

Hops

[Hopalong]

Boy, do I have to keep a grip on my imagination (and my fears).

Called the T, explained to her that I'd liked her a lot, but one moment had troubled me: when there was some dialogue and I'd had a facial reaction to something M said and she said something to the effect of: I see a look on your face...snotty. I told her I was startled by it and it had stuck with me, and wondered if I'd misunderstood.

She remembered it clearly and said that right after her observation, I'd said: Sometimes I have an edge, and I want to work on that. (True.) She also apologized for using an offensive descriptor, and said it was her challenge -- she uses the wrong word sometimes because English isn't her first language. (She's from Switzerland, grew up with German and French and Italian).

I found all that a fair and transparent explanation, accepted her apology, and feel better. It's hard for me to trust, and there's nobody more important to trust than a T. But I think her explanation was honest and reasonable. So if after we interview one or two others, M prefers her, I could work with her too. Maybe a shred of worry (paranoia?) that she might dislike me, but I don't think it's true.

Our next T-interview is with a Sikh, male. M is pleased that we can have any choice from a different culture. I think me going along with that, if I feel comfortable with that potential-T, is a good idea. Because some of the tensions between us are about cultural differences, as well as our histories.

So there it is. A word. Dealt with. I could parse everything all day long but that'd take me away from obsessing over the news!

hugs
Hops

[lighter]

I wonder if you'll like the Sikh T, Hops.

You have equal input in the selection. or something close?

Lighter

[Hopalong]

Probably will like him. The Skih faith has scripted complete equality for men and women for a verrrrrrry long time. My friend, a local public servant until he retired, is Sikh. A lovely, radiant human being. Ailing now, sadly.

And of course. M and I will decide together. Never crossed my mind that would mean anything other than equal input; he's never expressed anything different, either.

Hops

[Hopalong]

I'm glad M and I are going to do this counseling. Still waiting on second appointment, but the more I think about her, the more I sense it'll probably be the first person we saw. I like her. Talked over the whole weird-word incident with my own T and she seemed to feel good about how I described the couples-T. How she'd behaved during the session, how attuned she was to each of our behaviors, etc. That was reassuring.

I think it's going to be possible, whomever we see, for me to describe the impact of M's sort of overwhelming verbal and manic behavior on me, and how despite truly loving him, I also associate him with a lot of extra stress. I think he'll try to tone it down once I learn comfortable ways to assert my need for him to. He has reacted very well most of the time.

I'm feeling the need to get across to him how strongly I feel the need to reduce emotional stress, and ask him to be my ally and supporter in that. I have a heart issue and post-stroke stuff I'm still thinking and worrying about, and it'd help if he'd try to contribute calm. He thrives on nonstop stimulation and excitement but I know he has another channel, too. You can't write 17 books unless you know how to be still.

Anyhow, tonight we're doing dinner with friends and then a political event with a national journalist, in the renovated huge old cinema I went to as a child that always feels magical to me. I'm looking forward to it. (The place has the old-school lit-up marquee with a thousand lights. Grand interior. Sill love it.)

Hugs
Hops

[Twoapenny]

I'm very behind on posts, Hops, so just starting to catch up and I wondered, might you and M be able to sign up to some sort of relaxing/no talking type activity?  Yoga, tai chi, singing classes, a drumming group, just something that's known to bring stress levels down and where talking is just not part of what's on offer?  I wondered if it might be something you could try alongside the therapy sessions - it would mean you know you get at least an hour with M without him speaking   And I wondered if him getting into something that is more about how he feels on the inside rather than how he projects himself to other people (which I guess is what the constant talking is all about?) might just calm him down a bit and help him see he can be wonderful and lovely without needing to talk constantly

The T does sound good; I was a bit taken aback when you said she said you looked "snooty" (I'd have been offended by that!) but it's good that you were able to talk and see that she perhaps just didn't choose the right word (easy enough to do, even when using your first language, never mind your second).

The old cinema sounds amazing, have a lovely, lovely time xx

[Hopalong]

Thanks, Tupp.
I appreciate the idea as it's a good one.

I did mention doing meditation together at one point and he was receptive.
After he heard about my exercise class he joined, it became sort of his baby and I dropped out.

My great preference would be for him to learn and practice meditation on his own. He's so eager to do things with me that it becomes about that. And I would probably find his presence distracting.

We could try it at one of our homes a couple times, with a recording or video, and see how it goes...

It's a good thought. And thank you for it! (Don't worry about being "behind" -- we're all up to our collarbones in life and it happens to all of us.)

Hugs,
Hops

[lighter]

Hmmm...
silent couples activities.

Salt cave? 

Silent retreat?  I bet a silent retreat (very short one) would kick start the meditation routine.


As long as M is receptive, and positive, and participating.... it's all good: )
Lighter

[Hopalong]

Well, this is a different take, odd but kind of neat.

Remember how I've mentioned that M's restless hands drive me crazy, his fingers always twiddling and jumping so that it's unpleasant for me to hold hands with him?

Just on a hunch I ordered him one of these and loves the thing!
https://www.fidgetland.com

He had it with him at a recent event we went to and kept it busy the whole time and genuinely seems to benefit. He even mentioned to me that he "tries so hard" to remember not to grab my hand and the fiddler has helped. He laughs about it but I was surprised he actually had it on hand. And his little comment made me recognize that he really isn't being purposefully oblivious but actually struggles.

I think maybe he's had the hyperactive kind of ADD his whole life and never been helped at all with it. He also clearly has the hyper-focus part, which helps his career...and maybe some more ADD techniques will ease some of the manic behavior I find so challenging.

He's joked about it a lot but seems ironically delighted I got it for him.

Hops-a-D....D

[Twoapenny]

Well, this is a different take, odd but kind of neat.

Remember how I've mentioned that M's restless hands drive me crazy, his fingers always twiddling and jumping so that it's unpleasant for me to hold hands with him?

Just on a hunch I ordered him one of these and loves the thing!
https://www.fidgetland.com

He had it with him at a recent event we went to and kept it busy the whole time and genuinely seems to benefit. He even mentioned to me that he "tries so hard" to remember not to grab my hand and the fiddler has helped. He laughs about it but I was surprised he actually had it on hand. And his little comment made me recognize that he really isn't being purposefully oblivious but actually struggles.

I think maybe he's had the hyperactive kind of ADD his whole life and never been helped at all with it. He also clearly has the hyper-focus part, which helps his career...and maybe some more ADD techniques will ease some of the manic behavior I find so challenging.

He's joked about it a lot but seems ironically delighted I got it for him.

Hops-a-D....D

Hops my son used to leap around a lot when we were out walking - I used to put rocks in his backpack because it calmed his system down.  Perhaps you could try it with M   Lol, only kidding, the fidget thing sounds like a great idea.  It made me wonder if M (and you!) might benefit from an assessment with someone who specialises in sensory difficulties?  I don't know what you would call someone like that in the States; they are few and far between in the UK but virtually all of my son's problems are sensory in their origins and the advice we've had about ways to help calm his system and keep him level have been really helpful.  Just thought I would mention it in case it helps; I'm glad the fidget thing has helped and that he was happy you got it for him.  I guess it's a sign to him that you really want things to work and are trying to find ways to make that happen, which would make anyone happy xx

[lighter]

That's a really great thought, Tupp.  Sometimes we spend time focused on a problem, and can't see the forest for the trees.  Finding a cause seems like the logical place to start with any issue we're trying to solve,  IME.

Hops, what a wonderful gesture.  To offer a concrete act of care in your mission of support for the relationship, and M's struggle.

I'm a big fan of being proactive, particularly with childcare, and soothing ourselves in adulthood. 

I have things to occupy my hands when in public, traffic, in the house.... so does my sister.   

Some people bite their nails, fidget, etc.

We can be life learners if we're able to look honestly at what's working and what needs tweaked. 

I think M knows you're a tremendous asset and partner, Hops.

Lighter

[Hopalong]

Thanks, guys. You are so thoughtful and supportive, it blows my mind.

I think I won't explore new kinds of "treatment" or "evaluation" for M at this point, mainly because I've already got the poor man into two kinds of therapy -- his own T, and soon our couples T.

But gradually it might be useful to give him more info on ADHD (not that he couldn't look it up himself...). I generally don't want to direct his personal growth or visualize him as a project, but as long as he is this open and motivated, I can share comments and observations ... and fidget devices! If I mention those things, like sensory processing and ADHD a bit more...maybe he'll bring something up in his own work with his own T.

What's fascinating about M is his actual brilliance, and how that has driven a remarkable career. The couple-T we met on Monday asked him some astute questions, including who was the favorite (ie, "golden") child in your family? M immediately said, I was. And M spoke about the extreme privilege he grew up with.

He was the only one who broke away from the family expectation that he become a bigwig in one of the largest businesses in Central America. He went off to be a scholar and took that all the way to the top. He said his father once told him, You had the courage to do what I never could. And his sister said similar things.

One thing I love is that in both of these exploratory couple-T sessions, I've spoken very openly and descriptively about my observations and reactions to M, and painting his frustrating qualities vividly. And yet there is no blowback whatsoever from M afterward. He seems glad to hear what I actually think, and motivated to understand. He has immense learning capacity and never reacts negatively, even when I describe behaviors I think would be hard to hear about in front of a stranger.

So I'm feeling better about our prospects these days. He's coming over tonight for an indoor picnic and flick.

Hugs
Hops