Farm Doin's - 2020

[Hopalong]

Amber, I have a serious fear about freeloaders staying so comfortably in the new house you optimistically paid for that never mind your opinion about their need to work. Much less return your tools, respect your kitchen, or show you grace.

Have to ask it: What happens if they just won't go? Next steps?

Worry worry,

Hops

[sKePTiKal]

OK... y'all have such different takes on the situation...
first of all - none of this is as HUGE-amous as you're leaping to. I'm irritated, annoyed, not sure how to address the situation in practical terms -- without making Hol feel totally unwelcome. And she HAS been dealing with a lot of swirling emotional crap... so on a hair-trigger. I'm venting. Bitching - because there are few avenues that I can see to actually DO something productive for her.

I asked for quiet; relenting on the 24/7 group therapy activity... and got it. We've spent several days (when we're together and not doing our own things) just sitting and staring at each other... everything that CAN be said, has been said... and now it's simply a matter of people deciding to "do". The quiet gave me a chance to "hear myself think" - something my Dad used to require and ask for a lot.

That gave me a chance to let another faint echo of Mike stuff to come up for a mini-anniversary... talk to Buck about it openly... and get open, understanding, and supportive feedback from him. He is easy for me to talk to. Yeah, I was still feeling a little guilty about Buck... and I absolutely don't want to proceed with that remnant tagging along. Nothing he could do about it, either. I just had to deal with it -- and required the silence and space to do so; got it. Moving onwards....

John rode shotgun with me to pick up the plow. Yesterday we worked out most of the bugs in the process and I made a few passes. Ground's still too wet; I'll do more damage plowing now than if I wait for it to dry out. Except the weather has other plans... freezing overnight temps and more rain this coming week. It IS April. And it IS early. So on to plan B... for staying busy, getting things done, and preparing for the exodus.

Hol and Steve will probably be able to move into the Hut mid-May. Contractors will still be finishing up -- and there's a garage that needs to be started too. That will finally let me clean up MY garage. Photographer came out yesterday to get progress pics. John and I have lots of time to talk one on one... and he has been making a lot of plans, picking directions for what he wants to do next, etc. Still grappling with residual FOO trauma of his own... but instead of acting out about it, he and I can talk... and it's been useful for both of us. As soon as travel restrictions lift, I think he'll be taking off for other parts of the country.

The Hol problem, is that clearly this relationship isn't cutting the mustard for her. If she wants to engage with him... it is ALWAYS ONLY what he wants to do and he doesn't even make excuses anymore - just says I don't want to do that. He seems to be almost a wilfull slob. He will leave trash within one step of the trashcan, without completing the process. Hol & I are always (and there are no exceptions) going behind him and cleaning up his messes. Where I lose it is when he borrows my tools - and then leaves them whereever to be exposed to weather and forgotten. I need a tool and spend an hour looking only to not find it. It's not ignorance - or he couldn't perform his job. And that doesn't leave many benign explanations to choose from.

Yesterday, I heard her upstairs venting out loud... about what a laundry basket was for and why all those clothes were left right outside the basket. She'd mentioned this before... and of course, they don't have a lot of space in the guest room. She's constantly returning dishes, and bringing down trash that he takes up to "be alone"... because he can't even eat a meal with the rest of us much less participate. He has no practical skills, domestically. None. Zippo. Hol did get to (sometimes) put his dishes in the sink - but his idea of washing dishes is to pass them under cold water from the faucet & put them in the drainer.

I KNOW HOW NIT-PICKY THIS SOUNDS. But it's 24/7!!!! I woke up at 4:30 am  and went to investigate a noise (fortunately unarmed)... and he was setting up the 12 ft ladder to retrieve cactus plants from the ledge. Of course, I couldn't go back to sleep then. And he truly WAS trying to be as quiet as possible - but it seemed perfectly appropriate to him (he has no set routine) that since he was awake he'd do something useful... and those plants needed to be repotted.

And I know I'm not being unreasonable. But Hol continues to defend and protect him from behaving like a grown adult man. And I know what a mess this relationship is; that it's far from what she thought it would be - and actually wants; and she can't admit she picked a lemon and throw him back into the dating pool (some question if he ever left it) and try her luck again. This is the part that has me picking my words very very carefully around her. It is NOT like her... and yet there is a pattern... where she'll completely sacrifice her wants, needs, expectations... for any little amount of affection. It seems the smaller the amount of affection, and the more she has to work for it -- the more committed she is to work at it.

And yet -- it is not possible to have an open conversation with her about just these plain observations and my concern for her -- without invoking her Mama Tiger. She seems to be becoming more cognizant of the inequity she's experiencing... but then throw in the added pressure of wanting to conceive. I'm also well aware of my boundaries here, people. No way we could do this with as few tears & casualties as there've been... without me pointing out boundaries and policing them. It's been NECESSARY to take that stance at times.

Her substance abuse counselor may not be the BEST therapist in the world... but Hol absolutely needs to be seeing some impartial 3rd party for insight, guidance, and repairing her self-respect. But we just can't do that from within our relationship -- without totally risking that relationship. Of course - all that kind of thing is in limbo due to the excessive shutdowns.

But the Times they are a-changin'.

Can't... won't... say more than that now. But don't worry about me -- I'm fine. Truly. I want to "help" her... but that is a thankless job, she would resent it, I'd hurt myself in the process and I thought I'd retired from the mom job? But due to circumstances beyond everyone's control... John & I are ALL she's got. (John has some psych nursing background.)

So we're making do. Proceeding carefully, gently and slowly... and letting her say what she wants/needs. For now.

[lighter]

Amber:

No advice from me today..... maybe oil down the tools left in the rain.  My Grandfather used to clean and oil his tools, particularly shovels, after each use.  Where I come from, there are rules to borrowing someone's tools.  Returning them in better shape is number one.  Returning them goes without saying. 

I'm conflicted about your latest post.  I don't know if everyone here is overreacting or not.  I have the sense your nose is on multiple pebbles, but I honestly don't know.  I'm getting a better feel for when my nose is on and when it's off.

Thanks for the update.  I was wondering how you're doing.

Lighter

[Hopalong]

(((((Amber)))))

I hear you that you feel folks might over-react.
I think I react to recognizing a very consistent pattern over time. It can always be analyzed or explained away but it does sound to me that Holly's problems become yours and don't improve, and that Steve is a parasite she is unwilling to stop hosting because of her own psychological problems. And lastly, I do believe that there is no Mama, anywhere, who can be in charge of fixing them. (I KNOW you know this rationally, but perhaps it's possible that reflexively, it's a different matter?)

You know how DRASTIC my experience with an adult child's mental/psychological issues has been, so I'm sure that impacts my tone of urgency for you. But I'll try to step it back a bit. I want you to be comfortable venting here as often and as much as you can!

Probably my own codependency is behind that, so it's helpful for me to think about.

Hugs and hopes,
Hops

PS And I'm sorry this was so blunt as to sound uncaring. I care about you, ((((((Miz Amber))))). And I know I can over-read or misread. Please forgive if I have. I'll stop trying to fix it so much. Hugs.

[sKePTiKal]

Lighter - I will if I can find them. They went out into the woods, never to return.
Hops - no worries - I was mostly noticing that each of us responds from what our own fears/experiences are and yeah, I'm still doing that too.

Big argument last night. She was in studio; he was here - and he was screaming at her over the phone. All she wanted to have a conversation about their relationship. So he accused her of attacking him; gaslighting him; manipulation him. I fled the house for the studio, because I've lived through that kind of yelling once; a long time ago... and I couldn't stop shaking. She came up to talk to him face to face and he left.

So I spent some later hours with her, validating the fact that she isn't a bad person for having feelings and wanting to discuss her wants, needs, & dreams with him. He is always running away from her - and not engaging. That reads to me like he doesn't want a relationship at all - just a mommy to clean up after him and a hookup. John helped too; mostly by listening and quietly caring.

I drew bright boundaries for her - that whatever she ultimately decides I'll back her up 100% but that this is all her: all her decision, her show, her life. Except for her, and how she kicks herself, it's none of my business. Yeah - she has the classic - "it's all my fault", "I'm the one who's wrong" syndrome. As much as possible I'm trying to break that spell. She deserves someone who will step up and be there for her, engage with whatever she's doing, and not make himself the constant receiver of her attentions and ministrations.

This has been building; slowly dawning on her. A total repeat of the Bovie equation. Just in a different flavor.

And no, I can't get involved even though it's my house - it's her relationship.

I have no idea this morning, how this is going to turn out. And all I want is for it to be decided - however it suits her. I will say even the air seemed fresher around here after he left.

[sKePTiKal]

Back...and she's up. I guess we'll see what happens. He's not back yet.

The fears that were triggered last night are still jangling around a little. But I'm going to focus on doing something pretty soon... and not let my imagination get carried away. John is puttering around in the kitchen, turning last night's roast into beef noodle soup. There is plenty I can do around here inside (still) since it's cold and yucky outside.

[sKePTiKal]

Meh...

I'm minding my own business and taking care of some loose ends from the bathroom remodel. But it's time for lunch... and I'm needing to babble.

With the Hut nearing completion, and impending move down there... where she will end up as a glorified house/farm servant so he can space out in the woods (never mind how she thought he was gonna be a dad) and then, neither of them working due to the virus...

I think it brought CLEAR - that when she needed help, support or just companionship - she came to either John or me. Because S is just "absent" - even when physically present. Unless of course, he's trying to feed her some line to get her to be content playing mommy to him. We went to visit her in jail; S refused - because he didn't want to go into a jail. Like she did???? How much can he care about her, if he couldn't bother himself to do something like that for her?

But I know how far she's pretzled herself - in a transactional way to get his affection. And I pointed out, that her definition of a relationship - and what she wants from one - is far different than his. He slowly & gradually built a life that suited him - without giving a good god damn whether it was what she wanted. It's not lost on her - that even directly asking S to do something for her - he won't... but John & I were there, taking care of business and letting her talk, listening, feeding back... without demanding she do all the work herself.

So, I worry that the instinct to bend, give him another chance (after a year??) and basically deprive herself through the choice of "the bird in the hand" versus trying to find what she wants - REALLY - might again take the upper hand. This isn't the first time he's left when she's asked him to pay attention to her. But last night, he didn't come back home. Said he'd be here in the morning - he needed a "break". "Break" my patootie; his ex-girlfriend is staying out at his farm. Sheesh - he doesn't even put his trash in the can. He's not here. I guarantee you she's trying to talk to him over the phone. And still not getting anywhere.

So, my plan is to do some piddly, fussy, attention to detail kind of stuff today and at least stay centered enough - that when I'm called on for support again I might actually be of some use. Buck is right there, backing me up. Which is lovely. Sweet man.

[Hopalong]

I worry that the instinct to bend, give him another chance (after a year??) and basically deprive herself through the choice of "the bird in the hand" versus trying to find what she wants - REALLY - might again take the upper hand.

Very rational worry, imo. I am so sorry.

It is absolute agony to watch an adult child you love make destructive choices. YOU can see it, feel it, red flags waving, coming at her like a slow tsunami of misery.

But sometimes the MORE a parent or parent figure tries to stop the train bearing down on their adult child, the more stubbornly they cling to the track and talk about how pretty the oncoming light is....how far they (think they) can see.... It's heartbreaking sometimes.

I understand now everything you dislike about him, and why you agonize over her weakness in enabling his mistreatment and/or neglect of her. The anecdote about him not being willing to visit her in jail says so much about his issues. (That she was in jail in the first place says a different thing about her issues.)

It is not about HER and it's not about WE, with him. It's all about HIM. I'm really sorry.

I don't know if this is true or right, but as long as she is living on your land with you, is it remotely possible, even a little, that being where you are (given her emotional dependence on you) will delay her in maturing and healing (through her own therapy, not group therapy with you) enough to get rid of S? Whether it's through epiphany soon, or a divorce miserable years down the pike?

Is it possible that despite the security you offer, she cannot mature and heal until she truly is facing the future without the cushion of you and the mountain?

Not intentionally cruel....just blunt. (Sometimes I try to pick dandelions with a crowbar.)

big hugs and comfort,
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

Hops - she's been independent since she was 15. Responsible, hard-working... intelligent, including emotionally intelligent... until she began to struggle with relationships with men. So, at 40 - when job ended along with relationship - I offered an easy place for her to land & regroup, and then life itself began to alter that plan. Again.

Originally, she would be working in the city 5-6 months of the year on productions. Supporting herself, and quite well. While the farm and Hut, were simply going to be her own fallback "headquarters" -- and down the road, her own property close to mom, when that time does arrive. This may still happen. IF, and possibly when, all these shutdowns are lifted.

I am really not "doing" all that much with her. And the great sorting of her issues is up to her - and sometimes her friends. But I periodically get called on, to voice my observations and opinions, but I am used to - given how long she's been independent - leaving her to it. I've kept my lines with her - flashing neon. Her friend John may have given me an insight. We'd discussed this before... but I was still skeptical. Yeah, I have my own crap to deal with watching her go through this. (Please let the shutdown end so she can go complete the therapy she's assigned as part of her sentence... )

Yesterday, instead of continuing on in the vein she'd been in the night before - the night of the loud argument - she did a 180 and everything was "fine". Leaving me totally confused about what I KNOW for a FACT was expressed as being her feelings on the matter just the night before. I of all people know that two opposites can be true, just not to the same degree or importance. This was Jekyll/Hyde stuff.

But John has known her during times she didn't live with me, and has observed that this is a pattern with her. Exhausting chance after chance for her partner to step up and be there for her... all while enduring lonliness within the relationship, or abuse, or/and mounting frustration & resentment & pure righteous anger. I think that finally sunk in with me. It's like a point of pride that she is tough enough to endure this, come out intact (she thinks), and can out tough the guy involved. This guy isn't going to do anything more than take advantage of that, as long as it's convenient for him - and still won't give her what she is asking for. Anymore than the last one did in 9 years.

The night before she was proclaiming that she could do better than this guy. Sigh. And perhaps she is simply struggling over deciding what she really WANTS (ideally), and the reality - which is - what is she willing to live with?

I'm merely trying to understand what is going on here. And not interfere... but that's damn hard when I don't even know where the mines are placed in the minefield - AND I'm denied being able to maintain even basic rules for all those living in my house... because she defends him, excuses him, and unlike her, I don't have an issue deciding what I want. (we ARE very different, despite some of our strong similarilities)

So, while I think her friend John is getting antsy to get on the road of his own life... while he's here, the two of them have been talking and sorting that stuff out - completely without my presence or participation. He is just as eager to power up the lightbulb that will reveal to her, how much of this she is doing to herself. And he knows, "right words, at right time", or gradual incremental repetition... are both valid ways to offer a safe space for someone to see and understand this about themselves. She helped him get through some of his own trauma/issues.

Think I'm going to have a conversation with the contractor. He might be able to give a better idea of how long this work is going to take. And it would be helpful if these shutdowns were lifted... although I'm having a difficult time defining for myself how things would be more "normal" or "better". For me, living as I do, it's not that much different.
I do know it would be a good thing if her GF M can come out for a break from her life for a few days. It would help clear Hol's thinking a lot to have another female around.

In the Hut: I know the stucco walls are getting started; the power system is functional; siding is almost done; and she just ordered the flooring. Once the flooring is done, sinks & toilets & appliances can go in... and her furniture and collection of fabric. Then the garage needs to be built. I don't think the contractor remembers that.

-----------

Ground's still too wet to plow. And I have snow on the porch this morning. Most of it on the ground has melted. Lots of seed started and they're starting to germinate.

[lighter]

Amber:

As I'm giving advice to one of my dd's regarding a boy, I want to give you advice to NOT give your dd advice about boys.

::uncrossing super hypocritical eyes::.

The truth is, part of my emotional response is what my girls went through in early childhood, bc of me and my relationship with their father. 

I can't change that now.  I can model taking care of my own business and let the girls know I trust them to handle theirs.

I can't control or moderate their feelings, actions or words.... no matter how hard I want to, feel I have to, feel responsible.... I just can't.  Sometimes I really get that, Amber.  Other times, I get mixed up, and turns around... confused about it, what I can and can't do.... what is my business and what is theirs.

Figuring out what is mine and what is theirs helps simplify the answer to questions I ask myself for clarity.....
Is there anything I can be doing in this moment?

That really brings me back to my center.  It's helpful.

You can't tell Hol her plan to have a baby with a chucklehead on your property isn't a good plan.  What you CAN do is tell her you trust her to make decisions she can live with, bc she's the one who'll be living with them.  You don't have to live with her decisions.  She does.  She should be making here own decisions for that reason.  I'd say that to her flat out, and I'd say it with zero emotion.  Eeeek.   Sorry.   Just giving you my POV right now.  Not telling you what you must do, of course. I guess I'm trying to say..... as long as Hol feels you're involved.... the decisions are somewhat about YOU..... and she's not really focusing on what's hers, which is S, and what her life would be like if she had a baby with him.  That's something she'll see more clearly if you've stepped OUT of it, completely, IME. The full weight of being on her own, and being responsible for her decisions will then carry the full weight, IME.  You won't give her the mistaken impression this is YOUR business and you'll be there to solve and carry the problems with her. 

You can set boundaries around S touching your tools, or not. How he lives in your space IS your business.   

You can require S hunt all the lost tools, help you care for them and return them where he won't be allowed to touch them again.  Hol can't FIX that one.  She can't cover it up.  She can will you to keep your mouth shut, and allow things to get worse.... or not. 

From where I sit.... that seems perfectly logical to me around the tools, particularly bc Hol and S are living under your roof right now. 

There have to be limits you set for your life. 
Not for theirs. 
For yours and Buck's.  Modeling that for Hol is a good thing, IME.

I have a habit of looking down the road and Hol sharing a baby with chucklehead wouldn't simplify any of the problems you guys struggle with now, IME.  It would make matters more complicated, more unsteady and more difficult to process and deal with.

Choices.

Heck, S might decide he's not happy living with an empowered woman's boundaries fully in place, with consequences swiftly delivered, sans discussion.  It's my hope all our daughters will learn how to do this for themselves, and to feel entitled to set and hold those boundaries. 

I had an epiphany last week.... I've done my children a disservice by cushioning their path and shielding them as I have...... and you know what?  I know I was doing the best I could at that time.  I'm OK with it, and I forgive myself. 

I know better now, and I'll try to do better now, bc of that awareness.

All I can do is model taking care of my own business.  Give them their business to deal with and wish them well...... let them know I trust them to handle it and I will tell you..... I have a belly full of this, close up, right now, btw.

It comes down to figuring out what is mine, putting my blanket statements in place, then repeating them as needed so as not to get dragged into things that are muddled and not mine.  OH SO SIMPLE once I SEE what's mine.

So as not to let the young people feel they have a say in my business, how I feel and what my boundaries are or how I'll enforce them, bc that's exactly what I'm doing right now. 

Taking control back. Feeling entitled and obligated to do so.

::nodding::.

Yes, there's some discomfort, but I can't control that.  I don't want to control it, truth be told.  It's growth and growth is painful, IME.

Lighter

[sKePTiKal]

((((((((LIghter))))))))).

Well timed my dear. Well timed.

[sKePTiKal]

I am feeling drawn to a new space. As in being-space. It's a familiar feeling; it's where I am right before I change directions, start a new creative endeavor, and make huge systemic changes. "Powered by the great void"....

Hopefully, there isn't a LOT of rain in the future forecast so I can get the plowing done. It is cold; 34 this morning. But warming up again. I need to be busy in this longer spring. I've ordered LOTS of canning jars. Lids seem to be non-existent, even at Lehman Hardware right now. But if I just buy bands, I have re-usable lids. I'm going to need that outdoor kitchen setup, somewhere out of the wind... which presents a little bit of an issue. Not unsolvalbe, just needs some thought.

Siding is almost done on the hut; they're getting ready to finish the walls inside... and she's ordered flooring. By chance, she has gotten several orders for leather shoulder pouches (purse substitute that leaves your hands free) she makes, so she's got a little momentum to that Etsy shop she talked about. She's also making masks for her step-sister, the nurse. The creative income is a good thing; she could be completely moved into the hut before production is allowed to start up again in the city... the way things look, at the moment. Months, in other words, before that happens.

John has been talking a lot about the beach; but I know he is making other plans too. He may be moving on in the near future. Doesn't appear he has any reason to return to Portland.

Buck gained a pass to travel last week, when he did some diving for the Sheriff. That's let him finish the scrapping he's doing out of his shops; and take care of business. He's also getting his strength back. The less he's involved with that medical system, the better his health is getting. Go figure.

I'm still wary & not kindly disposed to the BF of Hol's. And I've made it clear that she can't just unilaterally give him permission for doing things... without clearing it with me first. I've got a few extra tasks for them, that are simply waiting on the weather to get better. I'm wary of her moods & frustrations too.

So, there is a new set of coping plans developed that will help me a lot. It's from that major shift mentioned above. Some change is external - and out of our control. Some change can be initiated from within - and manifested externally. Change is my specialty.  :insert evil grin:

[lighter]

Amber:

What do you mean by "wary"?

[sKePTiKal]

He doesn't interact with ANYONE Lighter. Not me, not even a good morning - much less: is there anything you want me to do today? He avoids John completely too.

And because half the peeps he ordered (baby ducks & guinea keets) arrived dead - he didn't want to interact with Hol either.

It's weird. No thank you, when I buy the non-usual things he prefers to eat or one of us cooks/cleans up after his 3 yr old messes.

When I asked Hol about it, she said he said (which is the only way I'm getting information about him)... that he doesn't want to be in my way around here.  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  This isn't being considerate; it's some elaborate means of getting what he wants - WITHOUT having to reciprocate.

And he's begun yelling at her. It sounds pathetically stupid - but I'm going to the studio and making a sign to post in the kitchen that says I'm the only one allowed to yell in this house. Because, here's the deal: I can ask directlly to stop doing that... and I get more response from a concrete wall. Or he leaves; runs away. Which is one of the things Hol is complaining about, btw. I have pointed out that it's not likely to get better when they move into the hut.

Here's the thing: it's HER relationship to deal with. But it's MY house. And there are certain things that I need from people in my house.

SO.... I'm very wary of him. I don't dare cross the boundary of throwing him out myself.

[lighter]

Amber:

You wrote you're wary of Hol's moods and frustrations too.

How does that show up for you?