Rescuing vs. Helping vs. Enabling

[Hopalong]

This is inspired by Tupp's recent comment about how triggering it is to be around someone who's emitting a vibe of "total helplessness." I can lunge into rescue behavior. For me, it's to soothe a bolt of anxiety that comes up in me in response.

I don't know what exactly happens, but the response I have (if I'm not being aware and breathing through it) is a frantic desire to open their eyes, get them thinking, etc. I don't even care whether someone turns out to be capable or successful at something, I just feel desperate for them to at least try. (*Preaching to self....). I think I get especially anxious when people say things like, there's nothing I can do about it.

My closest example with a close friend has little to do with practical stuff, although I notice her obliviousness there too. She is in an emotionally/verbally abusive relationship. When his mood is wrong he'll say really cutting, belittling things to her--like, when she's trying to urgently explain something she cares about that he disagrees with, he's say she's "crazy" or she's "yapping." He's so contemptuous.

She can be unpleasantly defensive herself at times, but she's usually still trying to explain her thoughts or actions in a logical way. I don't have an inside view, but don't believe she ever belittles him. But he goes right there, using stereotypical, misogynistic remarks (like "yapping", which Trump did about a woman speaking just the other day).

She comes over about once a week, a huge comfort during quarantine, and I serve her wine and snacks outside and set everything up. Now and then I wish it would occur to her to bring something, but she never does. I finally got around to telling her on occasion, this time please bring XXX, and she'll do it. I think she's gotten into a deep pattern of expecting passively to be taken of by others, and so be it.

I am frequently hiring men/teen boys for outside jobs I can't do myself. I don't blame her for needing physical help (her home has significant yard to deal with, etc). It's just the demeanor...oh I am helpless, someone has to do this -- for small things. The big thing is that she has convinced herself she absolutely cannot be alone, or live alone. Even temporarily to transition out of a miserable relationship. She told me she HAS to live with someone she loves (and who loves her) so a simple housemate arrangement wouldn't work. It's a man, or her daughter. (I wouldn't want to be her housemate for various reasons though at one point, I thought it could be a nice way to get old.) She constantly talks herself into remaining in a truly toxic relationship that is very painful half the time. She talks to me about her rationales for loving him, etc. And I internally freak out. (I MUST be projecting. I am ferocious about women not accepting abusive behavior or talk.)

I've gotten more aware of it and have decided to listen to her distress when she needs to vent, and try some stock responses once she lets it out: That must be so stressful for you. I'm sorry this still happens. Addressing her feelings instead of mentioning solutions. As the cycle repeats, maybe spend a little less emotional energy on being present to the very same thing as it recurs. Not sure how to balance all that, so maybe a thread on helping vs rescuing will open some doors.

There's only one solution to the pain she's often in, really: Leave him. But she won't and completely panics at the idea. If he died or she gave up on the relationship, she would immediately move halfway across the country to live with her daughter, and perhaps that's best. I'll miss her a lot when that happens, but I'm just going to try to enjoy her now.

I do know that it's best not to give specific advice unless someone asks for it. So for me the wisest (and really, simplest) answer is to be empathic when she talks, and just that. ("You are so disappointed, you seem so sad, that's a lot of heaviness, etc.") Only that. Nothing more. Not saying, "You could or you can or have you tried or XXXXXXXX...."). If I keep my assignment just that simple I'll do better with her.

(If anybody asks me to stop giving advice on this board, I'm screwed! But I do hope I'll learn when I'm actually helping, vs being frantic to fix....)

Anyway, thought it might be good to have a thread on helping vs rescuing, and how we deal with moments/relationships like that from time to time.

hugs
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Good thread, Hopsie, and not one with easy answers!  It is a difficult one and yes, that complete helplessness - it kind of baffles me that people can get through fifty plus years of life and still not be able to do or know anything about stuff that is really pretty commonplace day to day.  I'm not sure if I react to it because it makes me anxious or not - it happens so fast it's hard to strip it down and identify it.  I think with my friend it's more to do with her boyfriend being so useless and leaving her to deal with stuff that she's got no clue about (she couldn't even have gone to a hardware shop to buy the things she needed for the job because she didn't even know what you call the bits she needed to sort out - it took me ten minutes to figure out what she was saying so I don't know if a bloke in a shop would have ever got there).  I did feel angry that they're going to let an elderly woman lug something heavy across town rather than sorting it out themselves (or more specifically, he's going to let an elderly woman do that).  So I wonder if it's anger with me more than anxiety?  Maybe it's both.  I'm not sure, I'm going to try to be more aware of it next time to see if I can catch it.

But helping versus rescuing - mmm.  I think part of it with me is that I don't have the patience or the inclination to listen to someone talk about the same problem endlessly if they're not willing to do something about it (or at least think about doing something about it).  I don't like the idea of being a free counselling service.  I don't mind a few times but if it becomes an endless cycle (I'm thinking of a friend who complained about the same things with regard to her ex husband endlessly but wouldn't change anything about the way she did things to stop just running round in circles after him.  Eventually I told her I couldn't listen to it any more so she switched instead to endlessly complaining about her new boyfriend.  When I pointed out that I never heard her say anything positive about him she started talking instead about her friend's abusive husband.  So I think for some people there is a compulsion to have some sort of drama or crisis going on and I don't want to be part of that).  So I guess with me it depends on the situation and whether I know the person just wants to vent and let off steam or if they're struggling to cope and could maybe do with a poke in the right direction (I know there have been times in the past when I've been so stressed it affected my ability to think clearly.  A solution would come to me months after I needed one and I'd wonder why no-one else had suggested it.  So I'll suggest something if I think it might help).  But I think I run out of steam with people pretty quickly these days.

The other thing with me is where the line is between helping and enabling.  I eventually stopped supporting a friend who always went out with men who beat her up.  I spent years patching her up, finding her women's refuges, looking after her kids, helping her find new houses to move to and nothing ever changed, she just carried on going back each time and then would replace that one with another one that did the same.  Eventually I stopped helping her and the friendship didn't survive, she found someone else to do it.  So I guess sometimes you just become the third point of the triangle and whatever you do won't make a difference, you're just there at that time and if you don't do it, someone else will.

I don't think that helps much!  It's fuzzy in my head where the lines are drawn and I know I often struggle with it and don't get it right.

And no, Hopsie, don't stop giving advice on the board!  I like your advice, it helps!  lol x

[Hopalong]

Actually, that helped a lot to read, Tupp.
You inspired me to add "enabling."
It's a good cluster of responses to others to ponder about, I think.

Getting simpler (always good):

Rescuing: in emergency, always good if one can (bad outcomes may still happen)
Enabling: facilitating repetitive unhealthy cycles, not good once recognized
Helping: a normal and natural human connection, good when one can

I think part of the inner challenge to rescuing is releasing the outcome either of a failed rescue attempt or, for personal reasons, an inability/refusal to be the rescuer. (As you pointed out, you rescued an abused friend until you could no longer, and she moved on to others. You actually did save her, but her job going forward was beyond your ability...learning through painful repetition to save herself. Which she may or may not do; got to release it. Good on you for letting yourself stop trying.)

As to enabling, I'm realizing with this particular friend that never saying to her anything that challenges her helplessness isn't totally sane, either. So maybe now and then I'll add something like: This hurt seems to happen so often, what's your sense of how likely he is to change? (The good news is she finally got back into therapy, so there's less pressure to be her sole sounding board.)

Helping. I like helping. In fact just today I gave her an idea for a location to think about in the event that they do decide to move to a place requiring less upkeep. And she was excited about it and said, good idea!

Hugs and thanks,
Hops

[bean2]

With my non-N stepdaughter (the co-dependent one), I think I am enabling.  Now that she has completely cut us off, I miss her.  But, at least we don't have to worry about a phone call from jail at 1 am!

I think I, like Tupps, can only take so much negativity.  Then, I try to influence people I care about.  If they "hate" me for it, oh well - at least I got to the point quicker.  Which is some people really are going to have a problem with everyone and anyone and at some point, well I knew it would be me.

More pissed off at myself that it took me almost 6 years to stand up to my husband's kids.  I really want to be less of a people pleaser and more in touch with myself.

hops, advice? 

[Hopalong]

Hi Bean,
I try to influence people I care about.  If they "hate" me for it, oh well....

For me, it's very very hard sometimes to give up the TRYING to influence.

I think the advice (which I need to take also) is to Stop Trying with the person. Instead, focus on Just BEING with that person. Empathetically if possible.

IOW, read up on "empathic listening." It's the opposite of trying to urge or force or impel or inspire change. It's just reflecting back the feelings you hear underneath whatever the surface message or topic is.

It's a tall order in some situations, especially family ones. But it does liberate you from the compulsion to try to change someone else.

hugs
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

For me, a rescue involves an immediate solution to a dangerous (even if financial) situation. It's a fast, decisive one-time (hopefully) action... that leads to possibly...

helping by discussion & analysis of what happened, how it happened, what mistakes might've been made... and what lessons to take from those mistakes to avoid it in the future. What the person wanted and thought they might be obtaining. What went wrong there. (I am thinking family situations here and very very close friends; which as y'all know I only have a few.) I will always ask if the person wants some help like this, FIRST. I don't just offer it. I want them to actively participate in the discussion; to assume some responsibility for their choices made; to have an opportunity for their own self-reflective insights. NO LECTURING is my rule, for ME. No giving away the answers to the test. LOL.

Enabling is when I find myself repeating the above over & over & over again... because of whatever reason a person chooses to fall down the same tiger trap or repeat a self-destructive pattern. And because I've convinced myself that enabling is necessary BECAUSE of my emotional connection to that person. Enabling feels BAD to me these days. If feels like I'm not respecting myself, and is - in it's own way - a self-destructive pattern. And it doesn't empower anyone - not even me. I end up feeling used & betrayed too... altho often the person being enabled, feels temporarily happy to have been rescued again and free to go right back to repeating what I rescued them from in the first place.

These days, I have a serious, blunt & honest, as fast as I can, debate with myself over whether or not I will even choose to perform a rescue. So that I see just what exactly it is that I'm risking emotionally. And if I find I can assume responsibility for the worst possible outcome - then, perhaps I'll go ahead with the rescue. Perhaps NOT, still; because of all the other factors involved.

[Hopalong]

Bravo, Amber.
Sounds to me as though you're really seeing all this.

Clarity.

Oh yay.

hugs
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

LOL... getting thrown into the deep end of the pool enough times, clarifies a LOT of things.

Disclaimer: doing things the hard way before seeing other options is what's always worked for me. I would strongly advise people don't try this at home. There has to be a safer, saner, better way.

[Hopalong]

"If you have come here to help me, you are wasting your time. But if you have come because your liberation is bound up with mine, then let us work together."

-Aboriginal Activists Group

[Twoapenny]

For me, a rescue involves an immediate solution to a dangerous (even if financial) situation. It's a fast, decisive one-time (hopefully) action... that leads to possibly...

helping by discussion & analysis of what happened, how it happened, what mistakes might've been made... and what lessons to take from those mistakes to avoid it in the future. What the person wanted and thought they might be obtaining. What went wrong there. (I am thinking family situations here and very very close friends; which as y'all know I only have a few.) I will always ask if the person wants some help like this, FIRST. I don't just offer it. I want them to actively participate in the discussion; to assume some responsibility for their choices made; to have an opportunity for their own self-reflective insights. NO LECTURING is my rule, for ME. No giving away the answers to the test. LOL.

Enabling is when I find myself repeating the above over & over & over again... because of whatever reason a person chooses to fall down the same tiger trap or repeat a self-destructive pattern. And because I've convinced myself that enabling is necessary BECAUSE of my emotional connection to that person. Enabling feels BAD to me these days. If feels like I'm not respecting myself, and is - in it's own way - a self-destructive pattern. And it doesn't empower anyone - not even me. I end up feeling used & betrayed too... altho often the person being enabled, feels temporarily happy to have been rescued again and free to go right back to repeating what I rescued them from in the first place.

These days, I have a serious, blunt & honest, as fast as I can, debate with myself over whether or not I will even choose to perform a rescue. So that I see just what exactly it is that I'm risking emotionally. And if I find I can assume responsibility for the worst possible outcome - then, perhaps I'll go ahead with the rescue. Perhaps NOT, still; because of all the other factors involved.

Nodding all the way through, Skep.  I think direct talking is a skill I'm still learning and I find some people don't like the direct approach.  But it avoids so much confusion, pain, wasted time and mixed messages.  "Would you like some help?"  "Is there anything you want me to do?"  "Would you like to know what I think or do you just need to talk it through?"  I've had to learn to ask rather than assuming, and also had to learn to answer those questions (and of course, there's a big difference between "Is there anything you'd like me to do?" and "What do you expect me to do about that?"  Tone is important lol).  I learnt a lot the other day listening to my friend rather than jumping in each time she spoke.  She's actually handling the situation really well.  She's going about things in a roundabout sort of way and being much more tolerant with the other person than I would be (any man calling me what he called her would be shown the door with my boot up his backside) but, my way is my way, it's not necessarily the best or the right way and I need to learn that and cement it in my mind more clearly.

I think part of the problem I have is that I spent so much of my life fire fighting and having to deal with difficult, tough, unexpected situations so often and so frequently that I don't think I really learnt that there are other ways to do things and, perhaps even more importantly, something that's a complete disaster for me isn't necessarily going to be a disaster for someone else.  I've come to realise I don't need to leap in to deal with something on someone else's behalf, even if they seem to be struggling.  A clear example was offering to help a man who was struggling (or looked to me like he was struggling) to get his wife from her wheelchair and then her chair into the back of the car.  I asked them if they'd like any help and he, very sweetly, said it was nice of me to offer but it was such a faff to explain how to do everything to someone else that it was easier for him to get on with it, even though it was obviously hard for him to do.  I really understood what he meant; I often find other people getting involved just creates more work for me.  So that's something else I'm having to get my head around - I don't always know best (eek! even writing that brings me out into a cold sweat!  How can I not be perfect in every way?  This is so not me lol) and even if I do, other people have a right to make their own mistakes, in just the same way I've made mine.

Bean, I'm like you in just not having the energy to keep going over the same thing endlessly.  I don't think I try to influence people as such but I do tend to say my bit but I was thinking to myself today, I think time is the most precious thing you can share with someone?  You guys sharing your time with me on here means so much to me, as does Dr G giving up his time to keep the place running, friends who do call and check in with us, people who've fetched things for us during the lockdown - that gift of time is so precious.  And I kind of feel now that, if I'm giving up my time for someone else, I want it to be with someone who appreciates it and genuinely needs it.  I don't mean that I expect to be worshipped or rewarded for it, but when I get onto version 367 of the same boyfriend saga with the same friend, I find that I start to think that I could just be giving that time to myself - reading a book, watching a film, cleaning my kitchen up.  It could be better spent than listening to someone who, for whatever reason, is locked in that cycle of repeating the same problem but doing nothing about it.  I think that's something that's changed for me, just not being willing to endlessly sit and listen to the same thing.  It would be different about something like a bereavement or some trauma from the past that someone's still not able to cope with easily but just the day to day stuff grinds me down too much now.  I think I'm probably more suited to practical help these days?  I'll come and help you pack your stuff up and organise your house move for you but I don't think I'm that well suited to an endless supply of sympathy anymore.  Maybe I've turned into a badass?  Lol xx

[sKePTiKal]

Tupp, I'm still figuring direct speaking out, too.

Sometimes it triggers other people. And then, that starts a chain reaction combustion process.
Sometimes, it's only for ME; ie, I just want to be heard... even if my idea, suggestion, perspective is rejected by the other. But I'm exercising that skill and trying to find the balance between expressing my emotional intent, in a practical fashion, in a way that's not overbearing or "command" oriented.

And sometimes, it's STILL indirect when I'm trying to be direct - for example, a case where I know I could help effectively, but the other is being stubborn and wanting to do it themselves; their way; and I'll offer, insist, without coming right out and saying so - to avoid the potential conflict. Which btw, seldom works. (And it's MY stubbornness here, about knowing I could help if only allowed to... that is the problem.)

[Twoapenny]

Tupp, I'm still figuring direct speaking out, too.

Sometimes it triggers other people. And then, that starts a chain reaction combustion process.
Sometimes, it's only for ME; ie, I just want to be heard... even if my idea, suggestion, perspective is rejected by the other. But I'm exercising that skill and trying to find the balance between expressing my emotional intent, in a practical fashion, in a way that's not overbearing or "command" oriented.

And sometimes, it's STILL indirect when I'm trying to be direct - for example, a case where I know I could help effectively, but the other is being stubborn and wanting to do it themselves; their way; and I'll offer, insist, without coming right out and saying so - to avoid the potential conflict. Which btw, seldom works. (And it's MY stubbornness here, about knowing I could help if only allowed to... that is the problem.)

It's partly personality, isn't it?  I prefer direct speaking, even to the point of being brusque, whereas I know other people who prefer things flowered up a bit.  I think perhaps because my family home was always so indirect that the confusion that can create really triggers me sometimes.  But then of course you have the scenario where either you or the other person don't actually know what they want or need so it's hard to be specific then.  I can be a bit bull in a china shop, I know, but sometimes it's just time pressure.  My friend the other day for example, took ten minutes to say something that she could have done in two sentences.  That just melts my brain but it's how we're all different.  I'm trying to be more tolerant or accepting without compromising my own boundaries and needs and that feels like a bit of a tightrope walk at times xx

[sKePTiKal]

I am guilty as charged, of going to verbose lengths to say something that could've been done in a simple declarative sentence - as is Hol. I've seen her go on for 20 mins with what we affectionately call the "preamble" before getting to the point. She is also working on this.

Observing her (and vice versa) - this seems to be a pre-emptive attempt to justify/explain/consider others' reactions ahead of time - to the simple expression of the feeling or want/need. We talk about the connection of this verbal tic, to walking on eggshells around certain people. For her - past & present relationship; for me - my mom, still and a few former husbands. Less so with Mike.

The silly thing about it is, that as much as we know about each other this really isn't necessary. So I'm guilty of rolling my eyes quite a bit during her preambles. And vice versa. She'll just jump right in sometimes and state the point that I'm obviously working up to. LOLOLOL. God forbid I attempt to do that with her, however...

Gets me thinking, about the people that are soooo easy to just talk plainly with. Is it because there's no emotional risk? Or less? Or is it something limiting within ourselves - regarding the persona we're trying to project.

[Hopalong]

This is so interesting, y'all. Direct speaking having something real to do with helping or receiving a message about whether or not help is welcome.

Yay Tupp, for understanding the questions to ask. That's huge, imo. The only nuance left about those is probably just tone of voice. I find that keeping my energy low and light around asking--just asking easily--and seeing what they say in response. Thanks for the reminder about those. Plus, the one about disengaging from the rut-plowers or maybe even sharing: I'm no good for much emotional support right now, feeling at my limit myself, but I'm happy to come DO something if you need that support. Is there anything practical I can do to help?

Yay Amber, for owning your preamble rambles. I am a STAR at that and can sometimes actually see people chomping their bits for me to get to the f-ing point.

The "helping by discussion and analysis" part. Do you find you initiate that most of the time? Or does sometime come to you and ask for it, or does it maybe just happen habitually because that's your habit together?

I love it when I experience that with a friend. If it's a friend who seems to really enjoy the digging and thinking out loud, which I think has to do with trust. When my D was working on her total exit, my capacity to discuss and analyse because overtly unwelcome and I learned to just zip it. Even if I knew what I was seeing and had insight; she was over-capacity for absorbing any more wisdom from me.

These days, I realize I need to focus on helping myself. Rescuing myself, even. But I don't want to be cut off from other friends who need support. That would add fear of isolation to my present anxiety. A woman in my Covenant Group reached out to me with very painful news and I was able to sit with her and help her express her own fear and sense of anxiety about the future (it's her husband, a dire diagnosis). Yet she began backpedaling in an indirect way later, telling the Group we all have so much on our plates she doesn't want to add to it, etc. I emailed her that it is healing for me to be present for her, and hope she'll understand that I mean it.

Just because I'm struggling doesn't mean I want to be viewed as too damaged to be of use. I feared that a little bit, after sharing my ED visit with them last night.
But I'm going to try not to focus on it much.

hugs
Hops

[bean2]

Badass, ahem TwoaPenny,
I hear ya!

bean